$15 Vs. $150 JAPANSE SAW
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
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Just a small tip. With Japanese pull-cut saws, you "start" the cut on the push :) Great video.
🤣👍😉Love your chanel Lars! Becouse of your video i bought a silky big boy 2000 yellow (among the other tips)
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i like how you corrected yourself by saying things like "i am not used to it". A lot of people would naturally blame the tool for anything they struggle with
you know a bad worksman blames his tools.
He Normally does
he already made the video blaming the tool with complete incorrect technique and facts all throughout the video. It was a Silky Saw video if you are curious.
@@DividedWeAllFall was it when he reccomended ichibon?
But part of a tools quality comes from it's ease of use depending on the tool.
interesting. i am jealous of your tractor and the claws you use to hold the log still when you cut the log
So just a quick search but from what ive seen whale back saws seem to be used to cut lengthways along logs to create slabs hence the extra height of the saw blade to keep it level
Alex Cowie and that handle angle will be better for a lengthwise cut
I have always seen whalebacks used to do rip cuts not crosscuts like you showed here. This may be why you had a really hard time with teeth you claimed were really sharp.
I take it you don't believe him that it was sharp? I agree though that it's not really fair using a crosscut saw against a combo cut saw for a rip cut. Still, no way that whaleback was going to keep up with the newer tech in the katanaboy. Ergonomics alone were going to give the new saw a huge advantage.
SuburbanHobbyist yeah only advantage of older saws is they can be resharpened
I also think the Japanese saw used to compare the cut is the rip saw. So indeed an unfair test in this case. I'd like to see this saw cut in a rip cut test though. Would make for an interesting video too.
Wemja well if you haven't noticed he doesn't know what he is talking about half the time
Wemja "Entertainment" is the key word here.
The Japanese saw you used was likely use to cut large cedar into jointed framing with no nails or screws. The silky saw definitely dominated in the log cut but must compare apples to apples.
As a professional arborist I can tell you Silky makes the best handsaws in the world BY FAR. They are the industry standard and nothing quite measures up or ticks all the boxes like Silky does.
I guess you could say the katanaboy is....wait for it.....
Cutting edge technology!!!
I'll show myself out...
Please do
Cutting edge cutting edge tech...
Everyone saw that coming
Um he literally said that....
@Wendy’sof course not. I mean. You are Wendy's. Nothing about you is original. LOLOLOLOL.
I have noticed that watching you and Brian saw through stuff is exhausting. My shoulders hurt, my heart races and I am somewhat out of breath. Wonder if I am losing weight? Thanks for getting me in shape! Great stuff!
How do you have a picture of glue on your name?
8:47 what a cute little animal :)
As others have already pointed out, the whaleback is a rip saw.
I also thought the whaleback saw was for ripping, mostly for a softer wood. Nice stuff though. I really like your channel.
Yee. Used to make crosscuts in pine or cypress.
My 1967 Mercedes stops fine XD
Great video :)
If I may add something anecdotally; I have seen the Japanese using those old saws and one thing I noticed different was how they stood. The log was lower down and they cut on an angle with the tip toward the ground so the handle was nearly parallel to the ground. I don't know exactly how much of a difference this makes in the amount of effort required, but I would assume it would at least make the handle more ergonomic to use.
I really enjoy the showing of Japanese wood working tools. Japanese tools are easily on par with anything western in concerns to wood or wood working. In addition as I suppose you figured out the whale back is used to cut length wise more so than across.
I've got a little tip sir. You should pull it a little bit down when you're pulling. if you cut straight you can not get the full potential for this kind of saw.
Then the log should be lower so you kinda bend your body a little bit and pull the saw until your hand touching your thigh.
I love the vs videos
Didn’t think I would see you here.
That saw may be a "sasaba-noko" used for logging in Yakushima, south of Kyushu
Looks like a vintage Nokogiri cross cut saw. Very nice 👍
Great job Cody. The Katana boy, if you notice, is thinner along the spine than the thickness of the teeth making it glide very smoothly. Just a great design.
Even antique Japanese saw are forged thinner towards the spine too
Usually whale back saws are much taller than that, also they are used for ripping primarly. I’m no expert but that’s what I have read, you are basically comparing a crosscut saw and a rip saw on a crosscut cut. Of course the crosscut is going to win
Facts have no place in these reviews :-)
Excuse my ignorance but whats the difference?
Alistair Shaw, there are fibers running up the trunk (think, a bunch of dry spaghetti) ripcuts go along the fibers, while crosscuts go through the fibers.
Patrick Keller so a ripcut saw is for cutting lengthwise, like what would happen at a saw mill?
exactly
The hand angle and the blade coating really let the old one down. It would be interesting to restore the old blade and make a new handle and see how it does
Cody the "Whale Back Saw" is a ripping saw.
The Silky is NOT a ripping saw.
You have a Ryoba (double sided Japanese Saw) look at the teeth on that saw, one side is ripping, the large triangle shaped teeth (like the Whale Back Saw) and the other side is crosscut teeth, long and pointy (Like the Silky saw).
Try ripping a log with both and see the difference.
Still a great video, enjoyed it.
Cheers!
I would like to see a comparison between the silky katanaboy and the halfback saw. Could you do one please?
The log was not secure when you used the whale-back saw as compared to the other saw. The log was stable on the second cut and loose on the first.
no
longcaster the silky just cuts cleaner, so he didn't had to use as much as force.... That's why it looked like it was loose
Love the Steve Martin banjo picking in the intro.
Can’t wait to see Canadian Prepper’s video response 😂
Hi
The most amazing thing I've ever seen in my life was a Japanese woodworker who makes these ornate wooded boxes. I think you can find the videos on youtube. I forget what it's called or what the boxes are called but it's so crazy how detail-oriented and focused he was. It made me really respect Japanese culture more than I already do.
Traditional Japanese carpentry in general, with its reliance on fitment rather than the use of fasteners, is extremely interesting. I'd hate to be a carpenter in Japan because of how labor intensive it is. But their skill is something to behold
I had no idea such a saw existed, thanks for the great video!
That old saw is really cool. I’m always looking for old tools when I’m out at sales (To use on our homestead). Great vid👍🏻
North Country Off grid
The old tools are the best. My papaw has lots of old tools.
North Country Off grid
You in the north but my mamaw and papaw in Tennessee. They got a flea market with lots of old anvils.
North Country Off grid
Its a small town in Tennessee called Envil which I always wondered if it got it's name from a distortion of the word Anvil. But it's actually Crump, TN that has the flea market which isn't but up the road a bit.
Was just wondering how the bridge was coming Cody and how you foot is heeling
Hey k3ith29, y'all from Tennessee, I was wonderin if'n you knew my buddy Earnest T? Earnest T Bass is what he is named.
Hi Cody this is kind of unfair: a new saw versus an unturned and possibly rip cut whale saw? How about doing a collaboration with Bob Rozaieski who is a well known saw sharpener/tuner craftsman that can (probably) put to shame any modern saw! Thanks for the video and keep up the excellent work!
It would be a interesting to see a comparison of how they handle different binds, rather than just a suspended log like this. As always, thanks for helping keep traditional techniques and craftsmanship alive!
Awesome, I was hoping you'd get one of these! You'd be more familiar with the nuances than I, but I've only ever seen those whalebacks used for rip-cutting a log and they use a posture I've never seen before. They pull at a downward angle from 10 to 4 o'clock, put their weight on their back leg and do sort of a mini squat as they pull. It could make all the difference or none at all idk, but it'd be cool to hear you're take, so I figured id throw it out there for what its worth.
The Japanese build beautiful saws.
try Yharnam saws next time. heard they work wonders
Like some of the other posters here, i'm pretty sure that's a rip saw which is probably why it's snagging. this teeth don't look like crosscuts at all. would love to see a closer look at them
The idea of a variable tooth pitch & style close to the handle (as a starter) is really interesting. Can you find anything like that today?
You should compare the silky to a race filed peg and raker saw. I used to do timbersports in college and I know that the silky would be destroyed against that. An m tooth crosscut like they use in professional timber sports would be even faster. They take a bit of proper form and practice though because the teeth are very aggressive.
I agree. No contest.
You have the coolest collection of tools! It's probably not a priority, but I bet, if you put your mind to it, you could come up with a handle design that would make the old saw a whole lot easier to use. 👍
Dog just Vibin @8:47
Glorious Nippon Saw. Folded and serrated 10,000,000 times in Mt. Fuji.
Watching how long that took and hearing him curse had me in tears. 😅😂😀
If you have a chance to see old woodblock prints the log is above on a stand and pull down, not as you cut below near waist high.
I particularly love these videos of testing tools like that.. thanks 👍🏽😀
I would love to see a comparison between the katana boy and the cheap 15 inch Fiskars saw
Triangle teeth are for ripping, the crosscutting ones are finer, and closer together, furthermore the have another edge angle.
Pretty sure that old saw is for joinery... it's tall so you can keep the cuts vertical easier and the flat teeth profile is for making sure the bottom of your joint is flat. For precision, not speed...
The vintage saw looks like a rip saw and the handle would be more comfortable to use while standing on top of the wood being cut, while working backwards along the length.
Yes, that is the kind of thing I was trying to remember, it is about 20 years since I read about Japanese timber framing and I sadly no longer have the book, but it had many examples of traditional carpentry illustrated using old paintings and prints as well as photos and modern line drawings.
Impulsed hardened steel you don't need to sharpen it, And they're not that expensive I paid 150.00 CAD for my 500
As far as I know silky saws don't really have much, if any of a "set" to the saw teeth. The blade is thicker at the teeth then the spine.
Never need to sharpen? Never dulls?
Of course everything dulls over time lol, But taking in account the longevity of the lasting sharpness vs how many times you'd need to sharpen the teeth of another Saw in say a years time. Silky 0 other saw quite a bit
Lol! 150 is not too expensive?!
I can buy several different power saws that will outcut any silky for that price.
Love this guy keep up the great work
The only thing about the saw handle that would provide an advantage would be. To cut logs that you are standing on. Use the saw below your waist. Assuming the culture while logging the way they harvested there lumber would have given way to a unique handle design that was ment to be used a particular way.
That's just a guess I have no actual research involved in this educated guess as to why and how to use the saw at it's best potential.
Everything is done with purpose when it comes to tool engineering. So there has to be a reason for the design of the shape. And since the cut is on the pull stroke if what your cutting is under your feet pulling would be peferd for control while cutting lumber. Lift the blade and pull back to get your angle on the cut. Again I have no experience with this saw and have never seen one befor either so I could be compleatly wrong but that's how I think it is probably best used.
I bought a much smaller version at...Harbor Freight...2-3 years ago. It cuts like a demon, not logs obviously, but for not a lot of money, great! Much easier to use than, say, a bow saw, and much easier on my shoulders, elbows and back. Don't know what it costs now but, despite my neglect, it still works well.
That older saw looks like it would be much better suited at ripping down boards rather than cross cuts. You should give that a try and see if it’s design makes more sense for that type of cut.
"they don't make 'em like they used to," the make 'em better.
That saw has aged wale. Seemed to cut pretty wale also. Wale, thanks for reading along.
The Good Guy such thought provoking wording. Did you come up with that all on your own ? Or did mommy come down to the basement to teach you new words ?
Wale that was painful...
I wanted to say that while the first axe may not be two handed in your experience, you are much larger than your average Japanese man so they may be able to grip it with two hands more easily & control that angle more easily as well given the enhanced grip.
Katanaboy looks like a weapon out of Final Fantasy.
possibly you could learn the best way to use the old saw and do a comparison at that point, i would like to see that, also it may provide a few tricks on using the saw and others similar
Maybe if the traditional saw had a long handle like the Silky? It might work better with two hands? Also, Garrett Wade is selling a new version of the traditional saw.
Make a video about what you consider a weapon and what you consider a tool and what you think puts it in that category
correct me if im wrong but isnt those old japanese saw usually sharpened for ripping? That would make them not so good in cross cutting right? While the 150$ one have teeth profile for crosscutting
Rusty saw that not been sharpened and has seen decades of use vs razor sharp factory sharpened saw...
Also the support is wobbling all over the place, which is worse effector on the old saw with bigger more aggressive teeth
The handle was probably made for smaller Japanese hands. Usually Aisan hands are smaller then the western half of the worlds. So they could use two hands on it effectively. Just a guess.
Very good video, glad you see you are getting back to these!
You should mod one of them and add a pull handle on the top. I wonder if that would make the saw more efficient.
This saw is not for cross cuts. It was designed to cut lengthwise.
Ha! I never noticed you said "intensive purposes" before. It's funny how we sometimes say phrases wrong our whole lives and then realize it. I recently had a revelation of that nature lol.
The old one is definitely not made for cross cut.
Its for Standing up or under a tree, which makes the handle better for pulling it from under you upwards or vice versa Its only made for Rip Cuts. Katana Boy is CrossCut though.
Probably not the original handle? Spray the old rusty blade with wd40 it'll be much easier to use if you wanted to. Love the big silky! $300 equivalent in UK now!
I know you have a lot of your grandfathers tools that carry sentimental value. I recently lost my grandfathers knife that was given to me when he passed and am truly devastated. How do you cope with loosing something of sentimental value that cannot be replaced
I drive a 78 f150 daily. She winds up to a 90 just fine. And still going strong. Old school is best school especially for longevity
Thank you Cody for a very culturally sensitive yet accurate review of non-american saw technology.
7:40 "What's the conclusion here..." Reminds me of the saying, "A 'conclusion' is simply where you stopped thinking". I just read where whaleback (Maebiki Oga) saws were for timber framing. The Japanese are the best timber framers in the world. I can draw a conclusion from that.
LOL. You use the whaleback saw standing sideways on, close to the log at a 45 degree angle, so you're going over the top and the point down ....with one hand on the handle and the other hand is used to put downward pressure on the top of the senator the back cut. Would have been twice as fast... Thx.
DO MORE PLEASE
I really enjoy those!
This is just a Japanese saw used for starting cuts and general stuff. The real whaleback saws have their shape because they are used for making boards and the bigger the back of the saw the straighter it cuts. you can get a desk top 30min planing away from finished. It may cut slow but it saves you time with the cut being straight.
For whatever reason I feel like that saw is supposed to be used from bellow then the handle makes sense along the teeth biting in at the end.
Hey guy, your usage is wrong. The old saw(前挽大鋸, maebikioga) was using to cut a square timber or a log lengthwise along the fiber. You need a support for leaning them.
Reference to: ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%9C%A8%E6%8C%BD
Ones a throw away and replace saw after lots of use, ones a lifetime saw/antique.
The old saw is definitely a rip blade. The handle and teeth are wrong for crosscut use. Try ripping a large timber with it, and you will have better luck. The Katanaboy has typical crosscut teeth, which would be terrible for ripping.
by the position of the handle, the old saw, the operator should stand on the tree with both legs, and cut the tree that is beneath it and in that way maximize the use of the design of the triangular cutting saw of the saw, at the same time it uses gravity and with minimal labor power, gets maximum results
It is saw from the late 16th century. (Edo period)
前挽大鋸 Parallel big saw
(It’s saw to be processed into plate material.)
i.imgur.com/PddBJol.jpg
i.imgur.com/wAp1ffk.jpg
Crossing big saw (near the katana boy.)
i.imgur.com/hLBeoSd.jpg
Saw the introduction of address(Japanese page)
www.geocities.jp/kinomemocho/hamono_maebikioga.html
I also wondered just not having the first clue about Japanese saws if maybe this isn't for ripping? Just a thought
Isn't the cheaper alternative meant for cutting planks out of logs? Hence the wide surface area?
Well Cody, if you ever decide keeping 2 of those saws is too much for you, send one my way 😄
Do you know which is better in regards to the Silky katana boy the professional (made in the USA) or the non-professional (made in Japan). I have over 70 acres of trees to trim and I'm thinking of getting one of these for the very large limbs.
Nice to see them in action. However the results might have been different if you were comparing new with an old saw in new condition. Also some lubricant on the old blade would have made it run smoother for you.
This is the video I was waiting for!!!! YES!
from Sudan africa we love you
Wow, big difference. Fun to watch and learn!
Big thumbs up for you Cody for hanging in there with the whaleback ripsaw. Man it must have hurt using it cross cutting! But you were a real trooper Till the end! And anyone could have guessed that the katana boy would be faster and cost less energy as it's designed for crosscutting. But I like these vids of yours anyway!
10:39 woah that was so cool
Sure, Any Silky saw will cut perfectly - they are the Lexus of saws. Don't knock the whaleback as an efficient ripping saw. The steel will be of high quality. I have owned both and they have their place. A Japanese diamond sharpening file is a must. My silky blade lasted 5 years before replacement.
Notice one has symmetrical teeth and the other one sloped? I honestly don't remember now, but I believe those teeth shapes have differnt purpose? Like cutting along/against wood fibres. But then it was so long ago that I learned about these things...
Wemja just looking at the whale back I thought the same thing I would have thought a rip saw as well to Stand over the piece and pull up
The Japanese saw design follows the Bushido code of perfection of movement
You should try to make some stuff out of the Hawaiian Koa wood just don’t get the illegal Koa wood
Hey how about translating what is written on the saw, Now that that wood be awesome!
That 1 minute beep could have been used as a censor perfectly. 👍
nice fun comparison but i will never see/get a 100 year old saw. just looked up a 650 katana close to $ 300 US.
That Nokogiri si born for Rip cut not crosscut instead the Katanaboy is for crosscut on green wood specially ....