Universal Audio Apollo x16D - Big Disappointment
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
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Im a long time UAD user and it started to feel like a key that didn’t fit anymore. So I searched and searched and nothing really checked all the boxes in my price range. I looked into apogee even audient. And learned the reason they are not moving / improving is because they dont have to. Competition is when we benefit as a customer and there is not much of that again (in our price range) Until barry got me on RME. i never even heard of them. So after years of research I recently moved to the RME UFX III and I dont feel the limitations or technical roadblocks I did with UAD. I even got the ferrofish pulse 16 too and it just feels like a marriage that makes sense. A learning curve but a marriage nonetheless. Any how Thx Mr Johns, Thank you!!
I got the RME UFX IIII as well. I pre-ordered (three weeks ago) the new RME M-1620 Pro. It has 16 ins and out with MADI/Milan (AVB) and Adat. It should be here in SEP24. I did have a Ferrofish A32pro but took it back in time for a refund. I have no complaints with Ferrofish. I wanted all my gear to match. The RME M-1620 Pro I believe is going to be awesome!!
UAD a budget option...?! LOLOLOL. They are just waiting for the last x series to sell out before they drop the x+ series
@@braxal6983Should be here in September? LOL. What do they have to do, build it from scratch for you?
@@ZeroG I wish I was that special to RME. HAHA. No I wanted people to know about the new RME, They are also coming out with the new Firenet line of interfaces
Same
Ua should give us something like a SSl Big six & Tascam model 24. A small console with their modeling pre's and built in interface. Make it linkable like there interfaces so you can have the channel count you need. Give the market that and you'll have small studios/advanced home studios putting consoles in their studios, and you can use as a standalone mixer for live!
💯
I loved the Digi002 & 003... I also have had the Control 24 and C24... The Avid S4 is cool but extremely overpriced to ONLY be a control surface... if UA could do this - I see a lot of people hoping onboard
STARTING AT A WHOPPING 15K lmao
@@AyoMillzbut this is more controller,SSL big six and Tascam model 24 are analog console but you can use as a Audio interface and controller
Unison is garbage
If your music or mixes suck these days, it's not due to the conversion quality. I don't know anyone that can tell the difference between a song mixed on UAD, LYNX, Apogee, Burl etc when the mix is complete. Anyone whining about conversion would better spend their time seeking the flat edge of the earth.
@@gregbaxter7871 harsh…but a little truth in there lol. The market is flooded with amazing tools what is it we’re seeking at this point? Lol
So people don’t need better conversion quality because YOU can’t hear the difference? Anyone whining about conversion not being important may be better suited getting new ears instead of gear… may as well just put a sock over ur microphone cause phuck it, who’s gonna hear it!?!? Bahahahahahaha
@@erickarge1838 Your restating of my comment is anything but accurate and not what I was saying. Its a straw man argument that changes 100% of what I said, pretend it's what I said then it's knocked down with logic. All based on a false assumption.
Can I send you three mixes, one done via UAD, one through my Burl and one dumped to 2" tape and back into Pro Tools and have you identify the conversion source on each? There is differences in conversion quality but in this day and age, it's not the cause of a shitty mix. Most consumers are streaming shit quality songs through bluetooth earbuds. The recordings studios conversion is anything but the problem in today's music.
@@erickarge1838 If you can tell the difference in a proper double-blind test, then maybe it matters. Otherwise it's just snake oil and placebo.
Paying for an inferior product is just stupid if there are better ones for the same price.
Honestly it’s so nice to see an unedited video
No rugged locking RJ45 ports was a surprise to me for a Dante interface intended for live use. Hope no one trips on a Cat 5 cable
@@marklholloway not as big a deal…but no redundancy in the power supply either. So many things suggest they really didn’t think it out.
@@marklholloway We don’t deploy Dante devices in a way that would allow that. They are rack mounted and an IO panel is added to the front or rear. Also the switch used is typically not fitted with ethercon either. It’s a non issue in a professional environment.
Yeah ethercon should be standard on many of these pieces that are advertised for a Live environment.
I work in Live sound and Dante is used way more than MADI.
Every stage box at every venue I’ve worked in uses Dante.
Agreed, BUT depends on the console. The majority of modern consoles have and support Dante cards including their stage boxes. Only older Digico systems primarily use MADI. Dante is considered the standard now.
Then every console at every venue you use is a Yamaha.
Digico uses MADI and opticore primarily.
Avid used AVB
Soundgrid is also part of many live shows.
There are many protocols out there and while Dante rocks! It’s not the only player…
@@manujimenez5413 A&H consoles also support Dante cards, and the majority of venues I work in have opted for A&H (SQ/D-Live/Avantis).
AVB also has its uses for certain consoles. Primarily I see Dante.
Midas uses AES50 (Dante is optional), and a lot of Consoles use their own protocol (Alllen & Heath uses DSnake) or MADI. Digico uses Opticore and MADI, I think only Yamaha uses Dante standard and I think that is only on the newest (maybe the generation before the DM) console generation. It's an expansion card in every other mixer I can think of. Stupid Presonus uses AVB.
@@manujimenez5413almost every console platform in the live world has a Dante option card. Especially once you get into backend systems. It is a primary player in the live world, almost on par with MADI. Not sure why you think it’s limited to Yamaha consoles.
My Apollo X4 is now just being used for DSP UA plugins.... my now audio interface is an Antelope Audio Synergy Core 8 pro. and love it.
Maybe it's all just as good as it's going to get and we should just focus on the music
Dang...
Must…always..have…better….do..not….compute…mind…overloaded *nut and bolts go flying**
@@willwerly5600 lol. I know, right?
@@mainsailsound983 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯 lol
To me this is like demanding new shiny features for the next version of my refrigerator or vacum cleaner. The main question should be: is there a problem that needs to be solved. If converters are good - why changing them? Audio interfaces are not neccessarily devices to be updated every couple of years but those who don‘t have one, also need to have sth. they can buy.
The conversation is only
Ok and does need an update compared to a lot of other interfaces in the price range.
Intended market as you mentioned. But this is the first time they’ve done anything specifically aimed at live audio afaik. This is competition to waves in the live audio processing, and yes we care, perhaps not to how “authentic” the 1176 is but how well it works and how many of them we can use. We don’t just want the general compressor and the built in plugins in digital mixers are not always that great.
100. I saw this launch and struggled to imagine who this product is for. The amount of processing that it can do is pretty underwhelming, and the only analog I/O is the monitor out. 4k to run 16 channels of their plugins on a Dante box? Who was asking for this?
I’d say Mega Churches with big budgets with 100k-1M+ setups where $3K a pop is not a show stopper as well as high-ticket acts that were already using UAD for their live setup.
@@danielgaudet6114 UAD definitely knew the demographic they were going for. Still disappointing though.
@@danielgaudet6114 Indeed. 3000 is not much if the solution solves a genuine problem and need. for small timers who have to really think about such expenditure then such a niche tool would indeed be a head scratcher. Look at the Rupert Neve Designs RMP-D8. That thing is about 5 or 6 grand each. And pairing two of those with one of these new UAD units would allow you to track /mix a large stage kit. Yet nobody's making videos that RND are selling old kit for 1000s.... why is that?
A really useful video which would add value rather than conjecture and personal opinion to the community would be to demo one of these units going head to head against a comparable setup..... run 16 channels of audio through 3 or 4 plugins per channel. Do it using this UAD Dante unit vs doing it non Dante with native plugins... Never mind that not all the UAD plugins are available natively..... what's the usability of each setup... does the DSP/Dante rig then justify the cost. Heck do it with non UAD plugins on a native setup to compare too so that the whole argument that UAD's not even needed is made....
I'm not a fanboy. I have most of the UAD native plugins, have enough CPU not to need DSP or this rig for the time being. But I don't own any of either Apollo range and use RME interfaces mostly.
@@danielgaudet6114 Yup.....sometimes, we get so caught up in seeing why we won't use it that we don't understand that it actually might fit the bill for others.
Agreed. A Waves Soundgrid server will be a better investment for live plugins.
As an RME user, I completely support your point of view. Keep on telling it like it is, Barry. I’ll support you all the way.
I love that they are going dante but they need to add more dsp like double the dsp and add track counts. And keep local IO
The conversion on my Apollo x16 is incredible.
@@ancestralmemories right lol! My x6 is stellar…are folks starting to just complain for “more” just for the sake of something new? Or do this many people actually need more/new interfaces
Compared to what?
@@justin.johnson my subjective opinion, backed by years of personal experience. Take it or leave it. ❤️
Please just compare with RME ufx3 and Apogee,after the u ll understand how different is
@@alborzmousapour3446 I test with my tape machines (Otari MX5050, Studer A710). When it gets converted to DAW, I compare how realistic it sounds compared to the real analog tape playback. There is not a better test, than how accurately it reproduces analog sound. It reproduces it perfectly, with no difference in between the real tape and digital copy. The X16 analog conversion to digital, is incredible. I do not need to compare to the RME ufx3 to know it is incredible. Enjoy your new shiny object.
I think UAD has its place - for a midrange prosumer-ish tracking rig. It's probably not the direction I would go if I wanted to do that, but I can see the appeal. The draw is having cost-effective preamp sims, eq/comp on the way in, and comfort reverb. UAD is not the only offering, but it is viable. And there absolutely is something to be said for front-loading some of the decision making and committing to sounds before you hit record - limitations inspire creativity and simplify your workflow. For my purposes....there are a couple specific plugins that I like (and run native), and that's about it. The modeling mics probably would appeal to me if I was starting out with the exact right midrange budget in mind....but again, for my purposes, I just don't need them. But...I pretty much exclusively do mastering and a little bit of mixing, and I'm 100% sold on my ITB tools for both. All I really need is pristine conversion to my monitoring, and I have that.
90% of all my audio work takes place OUTSIDE of a DAW. Therefore, RME and Total Mix FX are the absolute bee's knees. DSP interfaces in my book will continue to be in demand for quite a while.
As a UA loyalist and user; hearing about that "new" box was disappointing... that felt like something that could've been done by making an upgradable install card... Giving us the same old shark processing technology is crazy
It’s because there are a ton of better platforms than Sharc atm for low latency DSP processing. Not to mention a complete rewrite of code. People keep complaining about this have never seen a modern DSP offering outperform Sharc. That just want something new. Until there are chips that can out perform Sharc on multiple processes at once for audio we won’t see new devices from any manufacturer do this.
I’m with you, Barry. I started with two single core cards and a Hammerfall in in a 450 pc with 2 megs of ram, scan drives. Locals said I was crazy. Hasn’t gotten that much better. Room &/treatment, Mics, Pre’s, capture, Amplification, speakers, effects. Knowledge.
Argh
I've had two Apollo x8ps for a few years now and I absolutely LOVE them. I can track with so many different mic pre models and mix with so much power, it's amazing. I also have 2 Audient 8 pre boxes giving me 32 live channels and it's glorious. The conversion sounds great to me and my clients. I don't understand the hate at all.
It's because it only has 16 channels of dante connectivity. For $3000? That gives you for instance, 16 channels of an SSL channel strip. That's ridiculous. Many touring acts are dealing with many more channels, thus having to purchase more units. For smaller gigs like churches, $3000 is a lot of money just for 16 channels of plugins. To me, its not worth the money unless its a touring act.
@@Kynect2Hymn the only other option is a Waves sound grid system and although in theory they offer more channels they also offer the pleasure of dealing with 2 computers and latency issues if you use plugins that aren't made for real time. Or 1 computer with very limited track counts and again added latency per plugin. 4 C6, a de noising effect, 4 e de ess and 4 rcomp plugins later and you start hearing some time alignment issues. Unless your just using it for time bases effects.
@@IntheDAW I think you forget that Dante introduces latency as well. Also, you don't need the Waves computers in order to utilize their plugins. Just buy the servers and run super rack on a computer. Waves cards are there for a reason on Live consoles as well. UAD does not have any card integration with consoles, hence the reason they're using Dante.
@Kynect2Hymn I mean I don't understand the hate in general. I don't use Dante so this is not an issue for me - I have a studio and the Apollos are the main engine, and I've only ever had the best experiences with them. Hate for this particular product is neither here nor there for me, but in general, I love UAD and the fact that they allow me to have a studio function at a pro level for under $10k, where 20 years ago it would have been well over $200k.
@@fordajunck2899 I gave you the reason people are disappointed, I don’t really see “hate” from anyone. It’s ok to be dissatisfied with a product, companies are there to make money. This product released by UAD is a lot of money with not much of a pay-off, hence why many people are not happy. I don’t doubt that the Apollos are great products, and that’s great! But once again, people run these companies, we have the right to judge.
Take the same parts and put into a different box and now you have a new and improved unit. 😅
Damnit man! I was about to drop big money on an x16 and now you got me second guessing myself. The biggest thing for me and my studio is finding something that's not going to be outdated in 2 years.. we all know the bullshit with updates to I/O hardware peripherals, computers, software, etc.. and yes, I am that guy who still uses ADAT, haha...I hear equally good and bad things about UA's digital conversion and was still onboard with the purchase. But at the end of the day, everything you mentioned in this video is my top concern with choosing a new platform and I'm now back at square 1. Thanks for your professional opinion as there aren't many people that speak on the most important information, which is technology and a companies investment toward their products. This is what is strictly driving my decision toward moving to a new platform and I'll keep researching.
To me, at this point it’s like looking every 6 months or year for new tvs that Samsung and LG have made… how much better can it really be at this point lol.
Love and appreciate your insight Barry, but I and colleagues of mine have made radio/tv/film used songs with Apollo twins and lesser. Keep making great music everyone!
Easy to get caught up in looking for new toys. And I think Mr. John’s has said as much in the past and would agree
What i see when i go places is the workflow with console, it works and people dont like change. When i got an apollo i knew it wasnt apogee or rme but that workflow with console became fluid to me and everyone uses it as well, kinda reminds me of how people feel about pro tools. They may not make another box but i cant aee why they want to when nothing matches console (i also use windows). When a company can one up the console app i feel that is when they are going to make a new box.
Dante is a welcomed addition. The notion that it’s a long time overdue is fair, but it adds a necessary feature set for broadcast and I can now use UA directly in commercial environments without any intermediate adaptation etc. I’m glad for it.
I'm confused by the "quality of the converters" issue here. It's a digital in/out card. What converters?
It has a Monitor output so it is using its FPGA controller chip that links its 6 Sharc DSPs and does the conversion for the monitor outputs Digital to Analog.
@@joesalyers It sure has, but if you use aux sends via dante from your system/board to access UAD plugins and receiving the returns via Dante, who's going to go through the hassle of hooking something to the analog out? Especially, when it's a single stereo pair.
@@majorgiroux I agree it's a silly product because 6 sharc chips is no enough to process 10 channel live!
2 Rupert Neve RMP-D8 preamps and an X16D and I’m happier than a kitten in yarn. You should mention that setup Barry. This is a good sign for future UA projects while we wait for what we know is coming. A platform update takes time but I like what I’m seeing with Luna, console, Dante and native plugins! UA is moving forward, just not fast enough for some of the folks here. Looking forward to the next year. Maybe we see a line of Apollo with Dante. But I like the new sleek look. I’m grabbing one.
You Didn’t Miss a beat!! 👍🏼 & I am ALL invested in Apollo- you nailed it dude.
Good points, at least they know what to do next time.
This is great for Live Sound, but specifically for the upper tier console.
The vast majority of most of us are using Midas/Behringer X/M32 consoles or something similar or lower, which makes this only usable if we get the Dante card, but then it will also eat up additonal channels which doesn't work for me.
On top of that, you're then paying for a Dante subscription.
I have a wedding band that I do sound for, and use my Apollo 8 and 8p for mic pres and channel processing, then direct out into my console to feed monitors and house. Sure its more cables, a touch more latency and more ADDA conversion steps than I would like, but it works, and sounds great.
You don’t need a Dante subscription to use a Dante enabled product. Dante controller is free.
@@TheMrRelic Ah ok. That's good to know. Thanks!
They made so much money from UAD-2 DSP but never went on to develop UAD-3 DSP, with better shark cards. This is why God does floods and locusts and kills the first son.
A few years ago UA came with a box for Live with MADI connectivity. It had a different interface to access it. And when it was demoed to us, I mentioned to their distributors that they should have connectivity options of MADI/Dante/AVB so live engineers could integrate into their existing IO workflow. Now this limits it to only Dante, of course that can be inegrated into existing Dante systems, but those that have existing live consoles with MADI(Digico) or AVB(Avid), they would need to spend thousands to get Dante into their systems as well as one of the UAD Dante box. From where I come from I don't see this happening.
In fact this looks exactly like their earlier MAD box changed to Dante.
My Dante Radar Covertors work flawlessly ,paired with my mtrx 2 ,very happy with the combo
I think that UAD could stand to update their current DSP and I/O with that of other companies. They have ported over so many fantastic plugins to go Native. I would think that it is possible that they can switch from the Sharks to off-the-shelf processors for those plugins that are not yet Native. Back in the very early days, Digi-Design used Apogee converters. So, maybe that is an option for them too. On the other hand, some may argue that the converters have gotten so good that unless you are a working studio or signed to a film company, just be happy with what you can afford. You aren’t missing much because overall, converters have gotten very good.
madi is over btw, it's either optocore or milan avb right now in pro live audio. dante is abundant but not audio focused like in the avb protocole. check meyer, l-a and d&b if you want to have an insight...
Great stuff Barry! Love my RME!
YEA I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW THIS WILL HELP ME IN WHAT I DO. THUS FAR I CONTEND ITS NOT FOR ME AND MY SMALL SETUP AT ALL. BARRY PLEASE TELL US WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR IN A NEW BOCX FROM UNIVERSAL AUDIO?
I was waiting for this video since the announcement haha
Barry is the reason I didn't buy a UA Apollo for my interface upgrade, but my friends make me feel bad for not buying an Apollo. Bruh what's the obsession with UA for these people?
Unisom is straight up garbage
If you feel "bad" for not buying an Apollo that's on you. You should buy/use what works best for your situation.
@@billyhughes9776 fair enough... I went against the normal and bought the Quadro from Antelope Audio
@@billyhughes9776 totally agree. I’m a UA user, but I don’t knock anyone for what they use, it’s all about getting results💪🏾
This one is made for live, so I don’t understand your disappointment. At live volume, converters and old plugin are enough good for any live situation.
Didn’t watch the whole video, o break all that down. I even start the video that way. Seems like maybe you just looked at the title only?
Gotta say I agree…I’ve watched the video and while the “disappointment” stance is Barry’s right to his opinion….this seems excessive. If theyre not pushing it as their new flagship hardware or something like that…whats the big deal lol.
He admits in the video that “we’re spoiled”. Think there’s a lot of us that get really caught up in new toys and forget that more times than not the tools we have are good enough. Let’s make music.
Side note, they updated the UA console and it’s really clean and cool to see the actually plugin scenes…quality of life change I guess lol
@@BarryJohns Respectfully this video took 15 mins to state the obvious that could have been summarised in
I like your videos! You're really honest. Not every product is "great sounding, very affordable....must have!" And you name it!
Normally nearly all product videos reviews on YT sound too nice (sponsored by the manufacturer). Thanks :-)
And then they get suit czcams.com/video/R7NxRFT6FiI/video.html
I had an Apollo x8p. And honestly? I genuinely loved it, apart from the latency. It sounded great. It was a Thunderbolt interface, and the latency was extremely high compared to the competition. But aside from that, I loved the unison preamps, I loved the plugins, I loved being able to run 4-6 distressor plugins on the way in, which was awesome for drums. But ... I use a lot of plugins, I play electronic drumkits, amp sims, all the rest of it... so I sold it.
I did regret it for a long time to be honest. I was using a combination of a Presonus Quantum and an Antelope Audio Discrete 8 Pro. Both of which could do 3.2ms round trip latency.
But recently I switched to an RME UFXII, and it is utterly fantastic. I no longer regret selling the Apollo x8p. I'm gonna sell the Quantum and the Discrete 8 to fund some additional ADAT I/O for the UFXII.
Very disappointing. Their drivers on Windows have always been absolutely horrific. I have an 8P and and 8xp and a satellite. Finally gave up on windows and bought a Max Studio. Really sad that I needed to do that just to use my Apollo universal audio gear. They release this which will only further dilute people purchasing most will probably go to RME including me. My next interface will be RME. Their interfaces were long overdue for an upgrade and I'm surprised also that this is what they offered.
I got the RME UFX IIII as well. I pre-ordered (three weeks ago) the new RME M-1620 Pro. It has 16 ins and out with MADI/Milan (AVB) and Adat. It should be here in SEP24. I did have a Ferrofish A32pro but took it back in time for a refund. I have no complaints with Ferrofish. I wanted all my gear to match. The RME M-1620 Pro I believe is going to be awesome!!
Does the colour of this x16D indicate the colour scheme of its next interfaces? Hmmmmm
They are pretty clear as to what they are trying to do. They are not reinventing the wheel: "Perfect for live sound venues or networked recording studios, Apollo x16D gives you elite-class Apollo X sound and realtime UAD plug-in processing over Thunderbolt and Dante. With Apollo x16D, you can mix and record live performances with over 200 UAD plug-ins from Neve, SSL, and Auto-Tune, plus classic LA-2A and 1176 compressors, and more."
Precisely. I think a lot of small time studio / home setups are getting the wrong end of the stick here. This is not aimed at the buyer of the RME UFX III. It is aimed at those that want to be able to track or mix live 16 channels of audio with plugins in as near real time as possible in the UAD space.
EXAMPLE: Connect this new device to two Dante equipped Rupert Neve Designs RMP-D8s and you have 16 channels of remote controllable pre-amps with very low latency DSP so you can track an entire live band or mix them for live.
Really not sure why people are confused about this is supposed to be. It is an interface. It has no A/D converters so no point talking about those. You could argue that it should have more channels, but since you can daisy chain 4 units, you can still build a high channel count if you really have such a need and have the budget to support.
As for those complaining about the lack of analogue I/O... you are missing the point. It is not designed that the audio breaks out locally. the whole purpose is that the conversion and analogue I/O is a LONG way away from the computer and interface. The RME Dante ranges does not have Analogue I/O either. you have to buy the M32 or similar units to do that.
@@infojunkie4989exactly, this comment shouldn’t be buried. Thank you
I think they are going after Waves and Fourier that have just released boxes meant for live sound market.
I'm just now getting into ADAT. What's wrong with it?
It’s limiting as to io expansion and sample rate. It works fine and it should not stop you from using it.
@@BarryJohns I'm using if for 16 to 32 channels in my spare studio. Works fine. Would have cost me 4x to do the same with Dante. Fewer cables to contend with granted. But I've found a new use for old Digiface USB and ferrofish pulse by sing them to connect sampler and synth outputs to a spare comp.
I have zero complaints about my Apollo DSP. 16 live tracks and have never even tickled the DSP.
You forgot Waves. Their huge in live sound and with their latest version it can use other plugins besides their own.
They no longer offer it, discontinued the hardware.
@@BarryJohnswhat are you talking about? The SuoerRack live box is sitting on their website, ready to purchase. Runs any VST3 plugin.
All other waves servers are very much not discontinued.
I had 2 Apollo x8ps last year that were fairly amazing when they worked, but they just cannot be pushed to their limits without completely falling apart. I could never go beyond 70% DSP for long recording sessions without serious glitches. I ended up getting a full replacement credit from SW after a crash in Console somehow fried a preamp IC transistor, which for whatever reason caused every single channel to blast out an ear piercing overloading signal. They are not at all workhorses and the DSP system was just a nightmare
I am a huge UA fanboy with their plugins. That said, regarding this topic, you are correct Barry. They need to retire the Apollo line and roll out a new product.
Why?
Thank you for your input on this. I have an Apollo x8p and it's been serving me well for the past couple of years. I also would love for UA to bring us something new and compelling. Hopefully they got something cooking. Thanks for sharing!! Much ❤ BJ!!
@@definfected honestly just curious, what is it that you’re looking for in a new interface?
The truth is that for this amount of money , you can buy Antelope Galaxy 32 which adopts, Dante, HDX, TB, USB, DSPs 32 line in and out etc etc. This UA is bullshit.
I was expecting this video/review sooner :)
A bit odd to call for ADAT to be scrapped. It is a very cost effective option for 4 to 8 channel expansion. You’re not going to get MADI/AVB/Dante expanders for anywhere near the price point of ADAT. For the budget conscious ADAT still
Makes a lot of sense. They don’t need the ultimate quality or extreme routing and cable lengths that the other protocols offer.
If they could get it down to one protocol, the cost would come way down. But I get your points.
@@BarryJohns That would be ideal, but not realistic given the proprietary nature of some of the technologies and need for backwards compatibility. Given there are multiple options for bridging and converting between the standards I don't really see it as an issue. Once a setup is in the realms of needing 100s of channels and the flexibility these network protocols offer then the cost of the interface is the least of our worries. The cost of all the gear attached to those outputs will dwarf the interface by orders of magnitude.
Barry I ❤ your videos,the only thing that confused the shit out of me was your Patchbay video,s and your constant bashing of UAD ,IT WORKS for some people ,I would be afraid of it coming back and biting you in the ass,started my recording journey in 1973 ,1/4 inch Tape ,don’t get me wrong ,I love what you do,love your personality,great speaker and your vid’s ,fortunately I like to look at all positive things ,you,ve been blessed with so many positives,me too ,I invested in Uad 1 pci cards ,silver face,MK11/16 ,Apollo .Musician,Studio owner,Radio ,personality,Boat Driver ,Uber Driver,Shit House ,Carpenter painter, would love to upgrade to RME ,NOT there yet,took me 50 years to get here,Love your videos,❤ THE WEATHERMAN,CALABOGIE,ONTARIO,CANADA
On UA, I have over 300+ videos, and there have been 12 UA related videos of which 5 of them were totally positive. I feel like I’m pretty fair. Now as to the patchbay, was it understanding normaling? Send me an email and I’ll explain it more of that was the stumbling block. Maybe it’s time I revisit that subject.
Honestly, people have still been using the UAD-2 Live rack even though it's been discontinued. I wouldn't buy it because it was MADI, and it didn't fit my infrastructure. This is great, and with so many VST hosts riding on Windows machines, I love to see solid hardware like this that doesn't. It's just a plus for people that operate in both Live and Studio environments that it can still be easily integrated into a studio workflow.
I think the disappointment is because this box was built for people like me not your typical UA user. Live audio has been dominated by Dante for the last few years and going back a decade it all started when Clair Global decided to utilize it for large format concert systems. Then Yamaha struck a deal with Audinate cementing Dante’s future. Dante’s attractiveness only really applied to live audio or broadcast allowing long runs with both audio and control included in a single path. It’s still not providing any real benefit to the typical studio so Im not surprised this box is confusing to the typical UA customer. However this is big news for the live crowd who previously needed a second device for format conversion when using UA with Yamaha or Digico who together dominate the console market in live audio Avid is a distant third. Yes the old Live Rack was madi but it hasn’t been supported for many years not to mention Madi is on the way out if not gone from all the newer mid level consoles. This new box is plug and play with all the yamaha range and they absolutely dominate the corporate or non touring rental space. Anyway prior to this a second device has been required to access UA products via Dante and using my case as the example that’s a $10k Prodigy to access my four X16’s and two Live Racks on a Yamaha PM10 which is Dante or Madi only on the inserts it will do a very limited 32 analog inserts via Twinlane but their intention along with all the other manufacturers is to push you into Dante io. Another note Audinate charges manufacturers per channel per device to use Dante so there’s no point in adding additional Dante channels without a path. So yeah unless you’re me it’s not shocking that your disappointed because nothing this device was designed to do applies to a studio type of environment.
At the end of the story, if your question is what compelling stuff UAD has to provide my answer would be: an audio interface for musicians. I mean, every manufacturers made a great move to give expressive gears for plugin guys (e.g. Push3, expressive e, ... MPE controlers at a glance), some computer music producers switched to 100% analog, classic bands use tones of hybrid configurations (e.g. UAD pedals, triggers for the drums, loopers, mic technics,...). What is the link beetwen those? No fucking computer!! Making music is not a click mouse job! We need an ergonomic move from UAD in my opinion. Not Volt shit which is a toy for me.
You shouldnt compare this with the Apollo 16. This is an upgrade to the (not well known) UAD-2 Live. I have no doubt the next "studio boxes" will have dante. Hopefully a few other improvements as well, but surely Dante.
We will only get rid of ADAT once another option becomes at least equally cost effective. You can get an RME Digiface USB (their ADAT interface) and a Ferrofish Pulse for about 1500$, so 16ch of high quality I/O, with RME drivers no less. That's WAY cheaper than any alternative solution, be it DANTE or anything else.
Yes, no way to get rid of it, just time to take it to a new level.
Hi, you and I got into a big argument regarding Atmos a few months back (lol)
On this topic, you are 100 percent correct. I have the Apollo duo and was looking to upgrade and get an 8xp or something along those lines but am getting nervous about the age of the current Apollo range. I’m looking to upgrade in November, but I’m guessing there won’t be any new UA units for me to consider. If that’s the case, SSL it is and then I gotta sell the duo
We weren’t arguing, we were having a healthy debate, which I always enjoy😁
@@BarryJohns maybe it’s a good thing UA don’t have a new interface because I’d have to get a new motherboard for that thunderbolt compatibility
This is pretty simple: UAD invests heavily in making their plugins native, their guitar pedals, and volt. Those markets are strong and have a significantly larger customer base than their DSP interfaces. They have to make their investment money back buy making revenue. Live sound has a large market. They talk to customers all the time that want to use UAD plugins live. They invest in that market. Marginal improvements to solid X series interfaces won't significantly grow revenue in comparison to the above.
Btw, how old are dangerous, radar, burl, prism, and other top converters?
I AGREE I SEE THESE OTHER INTERFACES WITH MORE I/O AND BETTER CONVERSION. IT MAKES ME WANNA CHANGE BUT I LIKE HOW MY APOLLO WORKS SEEMLESSLY WITH MY MAC AND AS WELL WHEN I TRACK MY VOCALS I LOVE NOT WORRYNING ABOUT ADDING PLUGINS TO MY MONITOR. IDK I WANT UA TO COME OUT WITH TRIPLE THE DSP AND MORE I/O AND BETTER CONVERSION YOURE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
May i ask , where is it made ? What components are built into it ?
I’m sure I am missing the point of Barry’s discussion with this comment and I didn’t read all of the comments everyone made. So…..I would love it if UA would configure Console so I could move and realign channels on the screen like I can do I pro tools to organize my inputs. And also, give me more aux out capabilities in Console to run 16 channels out for cues into my headphone system. Instead of having to run them as sends from pro tools which is doable. It would just be nice to have that. Again probably off topic.
Barry you pretty funny in this unedited video. We need more unedited videos lol.
I know how it looks, but I think they released this all alone like this because they have a new line of regular interfaces launching sometime soon and they don’t want this one to get overshadowed. If they don’t have something out this year though you’re probably right.
Most honest channel on yt
Barry, IMO where UA missed the boat here isn't about conversion or DSP, it's that they made it so this Apollo STILL has to connect via TB to control the UA Console...they effectively NEGATED one of the prime benefits of networked audio: the ability to do away with distance limitations. If UA had made this box so it could be controlled via the same Ethernet port carrying DANTE, this box would have much more utility in both FOH / Live and Studio scenarios. As it stands, one can have MORE capability than this box if you add an ADAT to DANTE conversion box (like an APPSYS Flexiverter) to an existing Apollo for less than HALF the price of the Apollo D. In such a case, you would have additional analog I/O, headphone outs, etc with the same LIMITATION as this box (needs a TB connection). I have provided this feedback directly to UA...I hope they listen.
Great points!
@@BarryJohns Another thing to think about: An OCTO Satellite retails for $999.00. For TWO LESS chips (Apollo D is hexa) and the addition of ONE Analog out (NO input), ONE AES I/O, and DANTE connectivity, you are paying $2000.00 more. It seems obvious UA developed this unit in a vacuum without input from actual users.
Keep speaking truth Barry! I was just banned from the GS discussion on this product and my critique of the product was removed from UA's FB account. Apparently they don't want to hear any constructive criticism and don't mind losing customers.
I saw that and it's almost a cool idea. ITs missing the analog ins and outs. I have the focusrite Dante card and will build my studio around that.
Just got started on focusrite adat scarlet's. Starting to pay attention for the next thing in 5yrs or so when it's time for an upgrade into the big boy stuff if I have a use for it.
UA reminds me of AVID. They are milking every last dime out of their outdated products. Now they're down to selling their originally overpriced plugins at a discount to get the very last dime. I'm a UAD owner but as I look to update I see they've basically done nothing new since I purchased it over 9 years ago. Time to move on and away from Universal Audio.
Is it possible to connect a 16 Preamp Stagebox to it?
As long as it has DANTE.
Yes
Why the hell do you want improve conversion in a full digital interface??? 🤦♂ For the 2 D/A outputs?
You didn’t watch the whole video, I made it very clear but I guess you heard what you wanted to hear.
@@BarryJohnsI guess I heard what you said. Maybe watch again your vid.
In 20 years this technology will be vintage and highly sought after by audio geeks ;) and it’s already obsolete now !
😜
You are exaxtly right and clear on all your points. What about a top converter 710D-8 with 1176 circuits ADAT INs and OUTs, for instance?
I don’t believe this is Universal Audios new line of audio interface. Note, at the time of this video release UA has not posted a video on this UAx16D on their CZcams channel. The X line has been good and while the competition has improved UA’s Interface is not bad. I believe they put this out as a teaser the feel out the market reaction. Unfortunately, that means we’ll have to wait another year or two for an upgrade but this is not a new interface they made other interfaces like the solo and volt that people may have thought were unnecessary but this is just an extension of the X line not a new product. I’ll continue to wait for their new interface to release.
I like UAD as whole, mostly for their actual hardware compressors and SOME of their plugins. I was thinking about their mic modeling setup but I hesitate. The Apollo is is grossly outdated and UAD got caught slipping hiding behind that walled garden and other companies caught up on all fronts and left them in the dust in many metrics. Complacency is the enemy of future dominance.
When can we have digital control over analog equipment and keep the signal path analog? That would be the ultimate for me.
Let's hear some of your tunes Baz
It’s not even an x16 with dante because where’s the 16 IO? To me this is just a box that will transfer your Dante device to thunderbolt and provide monitoring.
Here's my thing...I do agree with you Barry, but how much better can any of these boxes get for conversion? It's features, new and innovative features, that will make the difference, not conversion. What other Apollo has Dante? What other company has branded named plugins that work in any DAW, their monitoring go-between software and their own DAW? All on DSP... Avid doesn't. Apogee doesn't. Antelope Doesn't. RME doesn't. While I do agree with you, making this video might have been jumping the gun on what UA is doing going forward.
I left them and haven’t been happier lol
I went back to Antelope Audio.
Absolutely agree
Rubbing your hands together is a nervous tick. But it really picks up on the microphone and becomes a bit annoying to listen to after a while. You should try to avoid the habit when recording.
I’m never ever nervous 😬. I hear ya, but being myself is waaaay more important to me✌️
Where can I hear your mix work?
ive not heard his work either, be interesting to hear
Yea berry talks alot but never shows any mixing tracking or nothing show us something berry
@wshaw7068 he is a hobbyist. He looks at gear, if you don't like it millions if other channels that show you how to mix
I’m a fan of his channel and all the info he brings on the channel. But I’d like to hear his work! Nothing against Barry!
I would also love to see SOME innovation here instead of what we keep getting. Per your videos and such, I was in the market and really considered the Apollo line but ended up getting an RME UCX II which as you have stated still needs some innovation on their DSP as well (agree totally there). At this point though, what exactly can they innovate with that will get us something that's drastically better than what we have today? Curious to your thoughts. Thanks as always for posing such great content!
When I saw the release I was very excited at first. I use Dante all over the place. in my home studio and in my job doing large budget events and productions. it would allow me to integrate my whole studio into my uad system... At least that what's I thought. But a huge thing about Dante is high track counts at low latency and 16 in 16 out is very meh. If they had come out with a box that was 32X32 or 24X24 and had phisical IO with the Dante IO I would totally be fine with that.
I would like DSP but at an affordable price point. I think Dante is the future. I feel like DSP is being gate kept
Doesn’t this just convert one digital format to another? 16 channels seems really limited considering. My old Focusrite red could run 32x32 channels of Dante over tb3 AND 16 channels of ADDA.
I have a few UAD plugins on native, they are cool, but also not game changing... we are in 2024, spend your money on mics and speakers, not on outdated DSP...
I run my studio with Dante,so top of my wish list was a UA box with Dante. Preferably an 8XP. Ideally I wanted them to release a Dante card to replace my Thunderbolt card, since there's not a whole lot of point in having both - but I guess they want to keep Thunderbolt for software updates. I was a bit disappointed with this. It doesn't really do anything I want to the degree I'd be willing to hand over the $$ for it.
It's a bit like that old internet meme. Would you like free chocolate? It's....got....raisins in it.
Can you please give your opinion on Burl AD&DA conversion, Please
I packed up my Apollo and satellite today for storage .. #freedom
I have to disagree with your idea that buying a hdx card is better then a uad system.
Hdx cards are not very common in live sound especially because of the horrible way they handle latency per plugin. Tdm would have made sense but not hdx. And the big player in live sound is Waves. Every major console has a Waves sound grid option.
But they have latency issues constantly. So UAD saying hey you can now use Dante with our box just like a sound grid server only it's much more stable and lower latency because it's all in the interface the computer just controls the plugins it's a huge and I mean huge plus.
With a sound grid server if your sound grid computer crashes it's over. If pro tools crashes it's over. I've never had a UAD interface just not work after I turn off the computer it keeps it's last known programing.
The problem is the IO and DSP limit. 16X16 means a lot of IO in theory. But the chips don't support 6 c suite denosiers 10 dissressers and 10 neve preamps.
Nail on the head here. I was just about the post the exact same thing. The only issue that I see with the box is it feels like the DSP doesn't match I/O
@@jahsoul357 yep. It only makes sense if they make it have 12 or 16 DSP chips. Increase the price. I've already paid for 2 x8p units and my twin. I'll sell my twin and buy a Dante unit at a slightly lower price of the x8p if it has more DSP and Dante track count. I was very excited and almost pulled the trigger till I looked at what it offered.
limit for 16 channels is the budget Atmos industry standard monitoring, and moreover technically they use 20 years old outdated 6x SHARC chips, they can't really handle more plugins to over-spend on higher Dante channel count,
problem is, at that price point, it should have 24x SHARC chips and 64 channels Dante, period.
afterall, it's a direct competition to Waves Soundgrid, which is dead too xD
Waves soundgrid is not dead. Not even close.
@@TheMrRelic yea there are tons of people willing to pay ridiculous amount of money ($4000) for 5 years old PC "server" and mediocre plugins, great business indeed :D
UAD really are cheapening themselves with this fire sell, I signed up for the subscription but they were way too slow on releasing the good stuff so I cancelled. Had 2 x UAD-1 a long time ago, even managed to get the Matrox video card running UAD-1 software in the early days he he. No need for dsp these days when a lowly Mackbook Air M3 can get insane plugin count. Native Instruments and Reason going the same way I think.
I was excited to about the new release but, turns out it's a Dante which is cool. I rather go with a Focusrite Red rather than sticking to a strict plugin pallet. There are many other great options out there, like you said seems UA is falling back in it's future products, I;m sure they're working on something else. They have new plugins and pedals that are coming out which Is cool though. I Stupidly sold my LA-610 MK 2, until I get enough money to get something similar, I'll just wait to see what comes up next before another big purchase like that from UA.
Huge 👍 to the Red series!
Things 100% changed when UAD realized they could make bank pushing little one off guitar pedals.