I love how Guinan doesn't sugar coat the truth. She does it here to Troi, sating that she's dead on that it won't be easy and that other big one I remember was when he did it to Wesley when he said he'd never feel love like his first love again. Guinan just says, "you're right." No messing about - and even when the conversation goes further and she says how love is always different and Wesley responds saying how that doesn't make him feel better, Guinan just says, "its not meant to." She just said everything exactly how it was. Heck, her reaction in The Best of Both Worlds to Picard lamenting over "is this the end of our civilisation," was "well some of you might make it, so they'll never completely defeat you." It was hardly inspirational, but she told you how even the shittiest outcome was still not totally devoid of hope. Realism and optimism mixed in appropriate quantity, was Guinan. An underrated character in the larger Trek continuity.
@@leif1075 I don't remember the title, but in one episode Data decided to improve his humor subroutine. He created a hologram program with a standup comedian to help with his jokes.
Guinan is more qualified as a counselor, she has a level of experience and wisdom that allows her to be able to relate to and connect with people. her position as a bartender allows her to create an informal setting for people seeking guidance to open up to her without feeling like they have to, a form of unintentional therapy as it were. She doesn't approach people telling them that they have a problem, she lets them figure it out for themselves and only then does she give advice on how to deal with it, she can be blunt when she needs to, but can also be sympathetic.
As brilliant as the scenes between Picard and Guinan are, I would've loved to see more of these two. They have a fascinating dynamic, and to see a gifted but relatively young counselor get some mentoring from someone as impressive and established as Guinan would've... made things interesting. 😁
Troi was the victim of bad writing right from the beginning. The problem is that many episodes are driven by mysteries, and those mysteries are things she should by all rights be able to solve very easily. Unlike Vulcans for example, she does not need to touch somebody physically to touch their minds. But what was really bizarre was the importance attached to her abilities in the show, yet we never see her practicing or training them in any way. Her mother Lwaxana actually lectured her about this early in the series, in a conversation that let slip the fact that Deanna *can* actually read minds, but has deliberately allowed her powers to atrophy because she finds it confusing how humans say and think different things at the same time. Yet even after this episode, she doesn't seem to appreciate her abilities enough to train them more.
Elias To repeat: Review the episode "Haven", and the argument that Deanna has with her mother. Lwaxana flat-out states that Deanna has "allowed your mental powers to rust". Deanna does *not* deny it! Instead she contends that it's easier for her to not be able to read human minds because they don't think the same things that they say out loud. Being half-human is only a partial limiting factor. Spock was half-human/half-Vulcan, yet his ability to perform the mind meld was very advanced. But we saw him meditating frequently and he was very rigorous in pursuing Vulcan mental disciplines. We *never* see any similar behavior from Deanna. In fact, we never see any evidence that she practices her abilities beyond ad hoc usage of them. She is even combative with her mother over the use of telepathy to communicate in the presence of non-telepaths ("Menage-a-Troi"), despite the fact that it is the Betazoid's native "language". In fact, in one episode Deanna comments that her maternal grandfather was a "traditionalist" who rarely spoke out loud, arguing that it was "for off-worlders and people who didn't know any better". In many ways, her character seemed to have an odd self-hatred in that, while she identified as a Betazoid rather than a human, she was obsessed with conforming to human sensibilities.
Joe Momma Probably because she sucks so badly at using her abilities that she can't tell if someone is happy because their beverage tastes good or they have a winning hand!
+Daniel S That is the most insightful analysis of Troi I have ever read. I think you are spot on correct, the character had some interesting concepts behind her, but the writers sabotaged her.
"It's not just about letting people cry on your shoulder." Not with the writers Marina got until late season 5 when the production finally let her wear a uniform instead of a "take the whole thing off if you need to pee" suit.
Guinan reminds me of the Rabbi from the story It Could Be Worse by Isaac Bashevis Singer. The Rabbi listens forever, but when he finally speaks, the few words he says have a major impact. It's like the Native Americans used to say, listen as much as you can, don't speak unless you have to.
I´m curious about why humans always draw the shortest straw when it comes to lifespan in sci fi. Humanoid aliens almost always live until they are 300 years or more. I can´t recall any movie or tv show with any humanoid aliens that die of old age when they are like 30. :/
I don't think it was ironic, it was the point. Troi is very young and she doesn't have confidence she has enough experience to do the job without her empathetic abilities. And Guinan is saying partly that she has more than she realises, and partly that she can learn.
It was great when Riker said out loud what was on everyone's mind about Troi: "oh, look, the richest girl in the school just 'chooses' to be student council president"
The thing that really bugged me about this episode was that no one suggested her loss of powers could be a temporary thing related to the 2D gloopy space junk. Despite everyone knowing it happened exactly the same moment this gloopy stuff got hold of the ship, it didn't occur to anyone to put two and two together and suggest her powers would probably come back once the gloopy stuff was gone again. So we went through this huge upheaval of her resignation, despair and histrionics all because everyone assumed it was permanent. One of the more poorly plotted episodes in the whole series in my opinion; it's as if the characters of Picard, Riker and Co all had their IQ's reduced by half at the same time as Troi's loss of powers.
It's as bad as that one "Will Cmdr. Riker leave the _Enterprise_ to captain his own ship?" episode. You can't have episodes like this on a show that maintains the status quo because we all know how those episodes are going to end.
This reminds me of the cage when the doctor talked to pike after offering a drink and he says some times a man will tell his bartender things he’ll never tell his doctor I assume this is taken from that only the reverse sometimes a person will tell his or her bartender something they would never tell there counselor
I read something about how every councilor, shrink, etc.. in real life has a professional colleague to keep them balanced, so they can keep giving balanced advice to their patients. I don't know how accurate that is, but it does make sense.
@@katherinkeegan8601 Every therapist *should* have their own therapist and most therapists in training will be in personal therapy themselves. They participate in their personal therapy just like anyone else. They also have a supervisor that acts as oversight for their work and helps them stay balanced in their work. Not all therapists are in therapy themselves and not all therapists have a supervisor, but frankly they should be and most are.
If Guinan from Star Trek: TNG, Yoda from Star Wars, Jiraiya from Naruto, and Uncle Iroh got together!!!!!! Let’s just think about how awesome that would be.
Troi telling Guinan that intuition and instinct come from years of experience. Does Troi realise who she's talking to? Guinan was, what, 700 or so years old? I'm only guessing now, but I'd say she was at least 20 times more experienced if it was purely down to time.
Deanna's best scene. Is the when she's gets sloshed trying to ascertain James Cromwell name, Later passes out in front of Riker. as the guy who invented warp drive.
When I first watched this episode, I thought Troi was a total bitch for pitying herself after losing something that everyone else has to live without. . . . . Then I realized that's exactly the point of the episode, because people with disabilities probably get that feeling all the damn time.
Guinan would be a better counsellor, but I think would have spoilt the mystery of her character had she been the ships counsellor, and making her appearances less as fabulous, when she did, you felt her wisdom and guidance, she didnt need empathic abilitis (not that we know she doesnt but doesnt reveal them) to help someone, heck she wasnt afraid to go to the captains ready room or quarters to make sure that he was doing the right thing. Guinan is a true gem for TNG
In Classic Star Treak McCoy played chief medical officer and bartender. In The Next Generation they decided they needed a bartender, counsellor and plutonic friend.
This was kind of a good episode even though I bet people didn't like it. I find the whole thing interesting because humans are often able to tell what people are feeling by looking at their facial expressions or body language or reading the room, which is what makes her seem like Captain Obvious since she would have very little idea what subtle hints others are picking up (kind of like the opposite of Data). But that wasn't the main reason she made a good ship's counselor (in a few scenes), and she had to do other things in her job besides reading emotions. Anyway about this episode when she lost her ability she was actually worse off than others except for Data, which shows that humans are really the ones with the superpower to pick up on what someone's feeling.
Troi loses her ability when the writing becomes so bad that no one feels anything, must be horrific for an empath to feel that no one is feeling anything but the waiting for a better script.
Great scene, minor pet peeve is how Guinan ends with: "Human intuition and instinct are not always right... but, they do make life interesting!" The last part "but they do make life interesting" is just a random statement and doesn't speak to her original point at all. She was trying to convince Troi that perhaps only using human intuition will be good enough to still do her job, not whether it can be interesting! "...are not always right, but they *do* have value, and I think you may find they're more useful than you might think." ... or something, could've worked, no?
@Vauth I think that this final comment was more intended to goad rather than convince. Guinan intuited that she would need to offer Troi more than just the assurance that she maintained the necessary competency to keep her role. She obviously did. That would not likely be enough incentive to change her current stance though. This new intuitive and instinctual approach could however offer a perceptual thrill and challenge that Troi might not be too familiar with - that of “interesting” experiences that Guinan seductively dangles before her. This would be her “reward” should she continue along this path as a counselor. It was offered up as a prize and one that Guinan hinted was worth it.
Hindsight is 20/20, could Deanna losing her powers be viewed as symbolism for mentall illness episodes and what it looks like for some people before and after proper treatment? Also, symbolizing the acceptance/denial of said illnesses?
It's a shame that she was written so very badly. They could have done so much more with her than just having her around as eyecandy. Especially as Marina Sirtis is actually awesome.
"You're trying to make me see I have other abilities to draw on; human intuition, instincts... a fucking Psychology degree??" I always hated this episode. Literally not one character mentions to Deanna including her CO that she might be qualified because she holds a degree in Psychology!? It's so sexist.
Uh, wouldn't it be more racist than sexist? That her abilities as a councilor came from her being an empath, and not from learning? Isn't the whole point of this scene that Guinan is the one person on the ship who sees that's what everybody is thinking but not saying, including Troi, and she's here doing something about that? Isn't the whole subtext of this episode that, despite what you the viewer might think, you should see Troi as more than just her racial abilities? That she is female doesn't really play into this episode at all, but her race is what it is all about.
@@jeffreyscott4997 everything about how they wrote Deanna Troi had a sexist subtext but I take your point that it's about racism too. Seeing Deanna as more than her natural gifts is definitely supposed to be the subtext of the episode yes. And the line Riker gives about her powers being aristocratic still resonates. But not one single person in the episode mentions her psychology degree, the fact that she is a qualified psychologist is why she should be a psychologist. The premise is so dated and it IS rooted in sexism. No other character would ever have a storyline about whether they're qualified to do their own job. And the anti-Deanna hate in the fandom bears this out. There are literal 45 minute videos on why Guinan is a better counsellor than counsellor Troi. Ultimately the episode fails to address even the inherent racism. The message ultimately proposed for solving her dilemma is that she embrace her other genetically endowed traits, her human half, and not her years of training and hard work and you know DEGREE in psychology
You know it would've been nice if the writer's had spent a little more time developing Troi's character, she comes off as bratty and ill-tempered and hypocritical, but thats because of how the writer's treated her. To be fair it was the 80s but it's funny how Guinan is written like a calm, rational and intelligent person, partly because the character didn't have to be attractive or anything. I think the writer's delved into stereotype way too much with Troi and Beverly. I mean that Scottish ghost episode? Talk about degrading and stereotype.
_Star Trek_ was supposed to be, to a large extent, about embracing diversity. And yet there was always that streak of human supremacy running through it. It was always troubling to me.
Troi goes to Ten-forward to consult with her Guinancologist.
Full points for that one.. Hahahaahhahaahh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice! Hahahah!!
I spit my tea at the monitor and nearly choked to death from laughter
That was terrible. Well done.
;0
I love how Guinan doesn't sugar coat the truth. She does it here to Troi, sating that she's dead on that it won't be easy and that other big one I remember was when he did it to Wesley when he said he'd never feel love like his first love again. Guinan just says, "you're right." No messing about - and even when the conversation goes further and she says how love is always different and Wesley responds saying how that doesn't make him feel better, Guinan just says, "its not meant to."
She just said everything exactly how it was. Heck, her reaction in The Best of Both Worlds to Picard lamenting over "is this the end of our civilisation," was "well some of you might make it, so they'll never completely defeat you." It was hardly inspirational, but she told you how even the shittiest outcome was still not totally devoid of hope.
Realism and optimism mixed in appropriate quantity, was Guinan. An underrated character in the larger Trek continuity.
Aye. She's an optimistic realist. A rare breed indeed!
I still like watching Guinan's scenes, such as this one.
The best counselor in all of Star Fleet, and Deanna Troi is there too.
she was dumb as hell she could not even help data with his jokes
@@ivanjursdotter what episode was that with the jokes?
@@leif1075 I don't remember the title, but in one episode Data decided to improve his humor subroutine. He created a hologram program with a standup comedian to help with his jokes.
Guinan is more qualified as a counselor, she has a level of experience and wisdom that allows her to be able to relate to and connect with people. her position as a bartender allows her to create an informal setting for people seeking guidance to open up to her without feeling like they have to, a form of unintentional therapy as it were. She doesn't approach people telling them that they have a problem, she lets them figure it out for themselves and only then does she give advice on how to deal with it, she can be blunt when she needs to, but can also be sympathetic.
Guinan's people are listeners. Many humans are that also. Listening is all part of being able to give advice.
she is from the past..
stay with the story..
Djeez..
kids these days..
No she isn't. She is just a good listener
As brilliant as the scenes between Picard and Guinan are, I would've loved to see more of these two. They have a fascinating dynamic, and to see a gifted but relatively young counselor get some mentoring from someone as impressive and established as Guinan would've... made things interesting. 😁
Out counseling the councilor. Must be a major pet peeve they have.
Lol! Right?
I did that to my councilor, he didn't see me for long.
@@troydavis705 #doubt
Troi was the victim of bad writing right from the beginning. The problem is that many episodes are driven by mysteries, and those mysteries are things she should by all rights be able to solve very easily. Unlike Vulcans for example, she does not need to touch somebody physically to touch their minds. But what was really bizarre was the importance attached to her abilities in the show, yet we never see her practicing or training them in any way. Her mother Lwaxana actually lectured her about this early in the series, in a conversation that let slip the fact that Deanna *can* actually read minds, but has deliberately allowed her powers to atrophy because she finds it confusing how humans say and think different things at the same time. Yet even after this episode, she doesn't seem to appreciate her abilities enough to train them more.
Troi can read the pins of other telepaths, not everyone. It's because she's half human.
Elias
To repeat: Review the episode "Haven", and the argument that Deanna has with her mother. Lwaxana flat-out states that Deanna has "allowed your mental powers to rust". Deanna does *not* deny it! Instead she contends that it's easier for her to not be able to read human minds because they don't think the same things that they say out loud.
Being half-human is only a partial limiting factor. Spock was half-human/half-Vulcan, yet his ability to perform the mind meld was very advanced. But we saw him meditating frequently and he was very rigorous in pursuing Vulcan mental disciplines.
We *never* see any similar behavior from Deanna. In fact, we never see any evidence that she practices her abilities beyond ad hoc usage of them. She is even combative with her mother over the use of telepathy to communicate in the presence of non-telepaths ("Menage-a-Troi"), despite the fact that it is the Betazoid's native "language". In fact, in one episode Deanna comments that her maternal grandfather was a "traditionalist" who rarely spoke out loud, arguing that it was "for off-worlders and people who didn't know any better".
In many ways, her character seemed to have an odd self-hatred in that, while she identified as a Betazoid rather than a human, she was obsessed with conforming to human sensibilities.
***** Why anyone, other than Data, would play poker with an empath (even a half-human one) is beyond me.
Joe Momma
Probably because she sucks so badly at using her abilities that she can't tell if someone is happy because their beverage tastes good or they have a winning hand!
+Daniel S That is the most insightful analysis of Troi I have ever read. I think you are spot on correct, the character had some interesting concepts behind her, but the writers sabotaged her.
"It's not just about letting people cry on your shoulder." Not with the writers Marina got until late season 5 when the production finally let her wear a uniform instead of a "take the whole thing off if you need to pee" suit.
Loved it when Whoopi came into Star Trek. The only gripe I had was they explained a little too much of her character. She worked better as an enigma.
The episode that revealed Troi thought she was better than all the humans on the shift
Precisely. Riker put fire under her butt over that.
Guinan reminds me of the Rabbi from the story It Could Be Worse by Isaac Bashevis Singer. The Rabbi listens forever, but when he finally speaks, the few words he says have a major impact. It's like the Native Americans used to say, listen as much as you can, don't speak unless you have to.
Saying "those skills only develop after years of experience" to a at least 500 year old being is a bit ironic in that moment. :)
She was referring to herself
I´m curious about why humans always draw the shortest straw when it comes to lifespan in sci fi. Humanoid aliens almost always live until they are 300 years or more. I can´t recall any movie or tv show with any humanoid aliens that die of old age when they are like 30. :/
@@kjellringstrom6217 Star Trek Voyagers Kes’ race The Ocampa only live to around 9 years old.
@@andrewtang6318 Imagine the development of their brains in the first couple years of life.
I don't think it was ironic, it was the point. Troi is very young and she doesn't have confidence she has enough experience to do the job without her empathetic abilities. And Guinan is saying partly that she has more than she realises, and partly that she can learn.
I loved both of these characters so much!!
I would love to have Guinan as my counselor.
Guinan literally has 100's of years of experience.
Basically Guinan is saying to Troy , i'm better then you and I can replace you in a snap
Oh wow, one of the few scenes between the ship's counselor and Deanna Troi.
I’ve just realised how good Guinan’s hats would look on black women today.
Utterly unique and totally functional.
Why black women in particular?
@@PR--un4ub because of the AFRO
@@pacificharbourkiddo2094 not all black people have afros
Makes me wish Whoope would have done more drama. Instead of comedy.
Lurker1979 she’s done a ton of dramas. Google my friend.
You really need to see "The Color Purple" if you haven't already done so. The woman is an amazing actress.
Comedians only do drama when they feel like slacking off while at work.
@@TheSithLord NOT NEARLY ENOUGH!!! SHE SHOULD DO MORE!!!!!
This was a time when Whoopie Goldberg was pretty much in everything
The 90s was her decade (just as Jim Carrey, Will Smith and Mel Gibson).
This wasn't a Comedy, but DAMN did she nail this role the times she was on-screen.
Now shes the nagging one on the view, wasnt she susposed to move to Canada when trump one
@@calebgarrett214 u mean won?
Wow...
@@darellgrant8753 your surprised someone doesnt proofread? Bixby isnt the Greatest that dictating a Southern accent
It was great when Riker said out loud what was on everyone's mind about Troi: "oh, look, the richest girl in the school just 'chooses' to be student council president"
They both look amazing in this clip.
Troy, once again, attending Guinan school.
Yes, they acted great together. Wonder if Marina & Whoopi stayed in touch.
"Have I give you any indication that I might not be serious?"
"For one thing, that hat. No one's taking you serious in that hat."
Lmao
Geoffrey Forbes umm... it’s fashion from the future. You just have no taste 😜
This was my favorite episode of the series 4th Season! I loved the interaction between these two.
Damn Whoopi Goldberg has great teeth.
but no eyebrows...
@doctorwho0077 No, they're called veneers.
Most random comment award goes to...
Whoopi Goldberg is just such a great actress...
The thing that really bugged me about this episode was that no one suggested her loss of powers could be a temporary thing related to the 2D gloopy space junk. Despite everyone knowing it happened exactly the same moment this gloopy stuff got hold of the ship, it didn't occur to anyone to put two and two together and suggest her powers would probably come back once the gloopy stuff was gone again.
So we went through this huge upheaval of her resignation, despair and histrionics all because everyone assumed it was permanent. One of the more poorly plotted episodes in the whole series in my opinion; it's as if the characters of Picard, Riker and Co all had their IQ's reduced by half at the same time as Troi's loss of powers.
It's as bad as that one "Will Cmdr. Riker leave the _Enterprise_ to captain his own ship?" episode. You can't have episodes like this on a show that maintains the status quo because we all know how those episodes are going to end.
I loved Guinan
TheDopedemon69 I loved her, she is a great character.
Hate Whoopie's politics but enjoy her as an actress
@@raymondweaver8526 Exactly.
I keep expecting to see a pan pizza on Guinan's hat.
Perktube1 lol
I always expected her to balance drinks on it.
Cheesus Crust, that's funny
Guinan is so wise!
well she is getting for 800 years old i think
Like Yoda!
She looks so much better than Yoda. :)
“When nine hundred years old you reach, look as good, you will not, hmmmm?
In real life, she is such a racist.
This reminds me of the cage when the doctor talked to pike after offering a drink and he says some times a man will tell his bartender things he’ll never tell his doctor I assume this is taken from that only the reverse sometimes a person will tell his or her bartender something they would never tell there counselor
Excellent clip
When the counsellor needs counselling...
It does happen
I read something about how every councilor, shrink, etc.. in real life has a professional colleague to keep them balanced, so they can keep giving balanced advice to their patients. I don't know how accurate that is, but it does make sense.
@@katherinkeegan8601 Every therapist *should* have their own therapist and most therapists in training will be in personal therapy themselves. They participate in their personal therapy just like anyone else. They also have a supervisor that acts as oversight for their work and helps them stay balanced in their work. Not all therapists are in therapy themselves and not all therapists have a supervisor, but frankly they should be and most are.
If Guinan from Star Trek: TNG, Yoda from Star Wars, Jiraiya from Naruto, and Uncle Iroh got together!!!!!! Let’s just think about how awesome that would be.
it would be very similar characters all hanging out with no one to guide
The scene was the first time I understood the "I see what you're doing' concept.
Troi telling Guinan that intuition and instinct come from years of experience. Does Troi realise who she's talking to? Guinan was, what, 700 or so years old? I'm only guessing now, but I'd say she was at least 20 times more experienced if it was purely down to time.
And she relied on her empathic abilities.
She lived in the time of Mark Twain
She wasn't talking about Guinan there.
Back when TV shows had good writing.
Deanna's best scene. Is the when she's gets sloshed trying to ascertain James Cromwell name, Later passes out in front of Riker. as the guy who invented warp drive.
When I first watched this episode, I thought Troi was a total bitch for pitying herself after losing something that everyone else has to live without.
. . . . Then I realized that's exactly the point of the episode, because people with disabilities probably get that feeling all the damn time.
CountArtha I don't think it was pitying herself so much as mourning the loss of something so intimate and meaningful to her...
To a regular human, what Troi experienced in this episode was basically like suddenly going deaf or blind. It's losing a part of you.
Funny thing is, I always thought that Guinan was the batter counselor...
Why would anyone counsel batter?
Reverse Psychology at its finest. That is how I got through life.
Guinan would be a better counsellor, but I think would have spoilt the mystery of her character had she been the ships counsellor, and making her appearances less as fabulous, when she did, you felt her wisdom and guidance, she didnt need empathic abilitis (not that we know she doesnt but doesnt reveal them) to help someone, heck she wasnt afraid to go to the captains ready room or quarters to make sure that he was doing the right thing.
Guinan is a true gem for TNG
Guinan is trolling Troi
I love this episode!
In Classic Star Treak McCoy played chief medical officer and bartender. In The Next Generation they decided they needed a bartender, counsellor and plutonic friend.
Okay in Picard we learned that the captain boinked his plutonic friend and had a child.
who counsels the counsellor?
the bartender of course
then who counsels the bartender?
*she does that too*
This was kind of a good episode even though I bet people didn't like it. I find the whole thing interesting because humans are often able to tell what people are feeling by looking at their facial expressions or body language or reading the room, which is what makes her seem like Captain Obvious since she would have very little idea what subtle hints others are picking up (kind of like the opposite of Data). But that wasn't the main reason she made a good ship's counselor (in a few scenes), and she had to do other things in her job besides reading emotions.
Anyway about this episode when she lost her ability she was actually worse off than others except for Data, which shows that humans are really the ones with the superpower to pick up on what someone's feeling.
she was like grandma willow on Pocahontas
So nice
"so I'm discovering..":)
2:16 Guinan comes from a race of extremely good listeners.
To think what we've lost, saddens me deeply.
Guinan felt like the other ships counselor.
I'd take Guinen 100%. I really wish the Picard series would have given us the Picard Guinen backstory.
Realizes "omg have i been stating the obvious on the bridge this whole time?"
Same uniform but with a cheerleader skirt pulled on would have been fit her character better.
Troi and Guinan you don't get anymore useless than that. Their nicknames were Do Little and Do Less.
Which one is the best Counsellor in this scene?
Troi loses her ability when the writing becomes so bad that no one feels anything, must be horrific for an empath to feel that no one is feeling anything but the waiting for a better script.
Guinan and Diana Scene
Someone please remove Whooping from the View and replace her with Guinan.
Troi had no hat that was the difference.
She could mention the years of psychology training.
gail bireline also sent me this with a message to me from her
it better not be simple.
Shame she's not as effective on that show " The View".
I think she is. Whenever I see how the View cast act, I immediately feel much better about myself. :-)
Does Troi know how old Guinean is?
Great scene, minor pet peeve is how Guinan ends with: "Human intuition and instinct are not always right... but, they do make life interesting!"
The last part "but they do make life interesting" is just a random statement and doesn't speak to her original point at all. She was trying to convince Troi that perhaps only using human intuition will be good enough to still do her job, not whether it can be interesting!
"...are not always right, but they *do* have value, and I think you may find they're more useful than you might think." ... or something, could've worked, no?
@Vauth I think that this final comment was more intended to goad rather than convince. Guinan intuited that she would need to offer Troi more than just the assurance that she maintained the necessary competency to keep her role. She obviously did. That would not likely be enough incentive to change her current stance though.
This new intuitive and instinctual approach could however offer a perceptual thrill and challenge that Troi might not be too familiar with - that of “interesting” experiences that Guinan seductively dangles before her. This would be her “reward” should she continue along this path as a counselor. It was offered up as a prize and one that Guinan hinted was worth it.
0:54 On a massive starship there's only one counselor? How does that make sense
Jewish people weren't introduced onto the show until later. Gentiles are far less demanding of their time.
When you have a cushy job and dont want to lose it.
0:01 Troi contemplating working on her back.
Love guinan wisdom.
I sense tea
uhh... you mean Troi and Guinan?
"People cant talk about things they want to reveal" Well you're doing that now.
That's not what she said.
Tiktok brought me here 🥲
Hindsight is 20/20, could Deanna losing her powers be viewed as symbolism for mentall illness episodes and what it looks like for some people before and after proper treatment?
Also, symbolizing the acceptance/denial of said illnesses?
The real counselor vs Deanna
Trio: you'd make a good counsellor.
Guinan: I know, I'm going to take your job.
Trio: bitch, WHAT?
Fuckin amazing
this is what it looks like when a counselor is counciled by her counselor i may have spelled that wrong but f it lol
Jos and Toady 😀 TV
When she loses her powers and every part of her Betazed side, that's when... Dee Troi become human.
Who is Troi talking too?
Guinan is like 900 years old and Troi is talking to her like shes 15.
and info on doomsday scenario with the ufos
The episode where I hated, at least for this episode, Deana Troi for her bad behavior that showed.
It's a shame that she was written so very badly. They could have done so much more with her than just having her around as eyecandy. Especially as Marina Sirtis is actually awesome.
Troi acted like a brat, getting pissed at everyone
It's to bad Whoopie doesn't use this kind of logic on the View
Too bad Guinan is crazy today…
When the bartender is better at your job than you are
Lmao
Troi acting like she's such hot shit when you van summarize her most common role in the show to be the one who says
"Captain I detect bad vibes"
its cute that Troi thinks her job is special
Guinan has been doing her job her entire time on this ship better than her and beyond
guinan would be a way better counselor than troi
"You're trying to make me see I have other abilities to draw on; human intuition, instincts... a fucking Psychology degree??" I always hated this episode. Literally not one character mentions to Deanna including her CO that she might be qualified because she holds a degree in Psychology!? It's so sexist.
Uh, wouldn't it be more racist than sexist? That her abilities as a councilor came from her being an empath, and not from learning? Isn't the whole point of this scene that Guinan is the one person on the ship who sees that's what everybody is thinking but not saying, including Troi, and she's here doing something about that? Isn't the whole subtext of this episode that, despite what you the viewer might think, you should see Troi as more than just her racial abilities? That she is female doesn't really play into this episode at all, but her race is what it is all about.
@@jeffreyscott4997 everything about how they wrote Deanna Troi had a sexist subtext but I take your point that it's about racism too. Seeing Deanna as more than her natural gifts is definitely supposed to be the subtext of the episode yes. And the line Riker gives about her powers being aristocratic still resonates. But not one single person in the episode mentions her psychology degree, the fact that she is a qualified psychologist is why she should be a psychologist. The premise is so dated and it IS rooted in sexism. No other character would ever have a storyline about whether they're qualified to do their own job. And the anti-Deanna hate in the fandom bears this out. There are literal 45 minute videos on why Guinan is a better counsellor than counsellor Troi. Ultimately the episode fails to address even the inherent racism. The message ultimately proposed for solving her dilemma is that she embrace her other genetically endowed traits, her human half, and not her years of training and hard work and you know DEGREE in psychology
Clicks "show more" on reply. Rolls eyes.
You know it would've been nice if the writer's had spent a little more time developing Troi's character, she comes off as bratty and ill-tempered and hypocritical, but thats because of how the writer's treated her. To be fair it was the 80s but it's funny how Guinan is written like a calm, rational and intelligent person, partly because the character didn't have to be attractive or anything. I think the writer's delved into stereotype way too much with Troi and Beverly. I mean that Scottish ghost episode? Talk about degrading and stereotype.
The eye candy vs the _Real_ councelor.
I just wonder why it has to be HUMAN intuition and instinct. Do Betazoids not develop intuition? Klingons? Bolians? Ferengi?
_Star Trek_ was supposed to be, to a large extent, about embracing diversity. And yet there was always that streak of human supremacy running through it. It was always troubling to me.
and they both are not human !
Troi had a human father.
I still like Guinan much better.