What HAPPENED in this A350 Cockpit?! French Bee flight 711 explained!
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- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
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An Airbus A350 from French Bee ended up in a very complicated situation after one of its pilots suffered a subtle incapacitation during a go-around in Paris Orly in February 2020. In this video I will explain exactly what happened and what we can learn from it. I hope you will enjoy the video. let me know in the comments below!
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Below you will find the links to videos and sources used in this episode. Enjoy checking them out!
ATC Controller: @ nats.aero
i1.wp.com/nats.aero/blog/wp-c...
Weather Radar: @ safetyfirst.airbus.com
europe.content.twixlmedia.com...
Incapacitated Pilot: @ britishairways.com
www.britishairways.com/assets...
Airbus Sidestick: @ UNKOWN
i.ytimg.com/vi/SKNJ-ABAPuY/ma...
Sim aircraft by: FlightFactor-A350
store.x-plane.org/Airbus-A350...
BEA Full report: www.bea.aero/fileadmin/user_u...
BEA video: • Lessons Learned 1: Cog...
T3KZPYH9KWKRNYYU
00:00 - Intro
00:36 - Flight Overview
01:25 - The Flight Crew
02:16 - Paris Orly [lfpo]
03:27 - Approach Briefing
04:18 - Windshear! Go Around!
05:58 - Off-track
08:29 - Partial Incapacity
10:23 - No Flight Directors, No Speed
12:24 - Short-term Conflict Alert
15:11 - Back In Control
17:34 - Four Minutes
18:13 - ”it Felt Like A Simulation”
21:12 - Incapacitations
22:30 - The Captain
24:10 - The Role Of Paris Orly
24:40 - Briefing Recaps
25:22 - Reprimands?
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to me, the fo was not enough confident with manually flying the plane (that's make sense,he request to fly it to build more confidence). Manually flying the plane absorbe almost all his capacity, that the slightest unexpected event make him overspill and become incapacited. from my pov there is a need to find suitable area of the envelope of the flying to allow pilots to just flying the plane, high enough and free from overbusy radio coms near landing. when confident enough they can move the manual practice window lower and lower till landing. you need to be so confident in manual flying the plane to make coms and still have room to react to unxpected problem. That's the only way to avoid this kind of scenario.... active tackle of the surprise problem (what do i know,what is reliable fact, what kind of actions can i take without make the problem worse...) is the way to stay ahead of the problems and lower the possibility of overload and spill over. We are like the apollo guidance system, with a finite capacity. when overload, drop all and concentrate on high priority task, fly , com, navigate.
wow, your voice impressions of the warnings are amazing! lol
Very tricky situation because there are other situations where people are in control where it might seem there's a subtle incapacitating, and you wouldn't want to interfere with an already stressful situation by making it even more complicated. So, best to avoid if possible.
No money
@@AaaBbb-ff1pn Indeed, that makes very much sense!
The pilot saying "Everyone silent!" and subsequently taking control and restoring order in the cockpit saved the day! Good job captain!!
The other pilots sued him because they were offended.
@@richardcranium3417 are you saying this to be funny or you can actually back it up?
@@milanstevic8424 It was a joke on those who can’t tolerate strong language.
@@richardcranium3417 so it's to be funny then. ok, thx, it was very hard to tell. there are people who are actually advocating this very seriously. you should consider being non-ambiguous if you're against it.
The captain is responsible for the cockpit mess related here. Praising him for regaining control of a situation he let get out of control is ridiculous. As for the first officer, he should be sacked. I'm a pilot with 8,000 hours - I wouldn't want to fly with either of these inept individuals.
I fully agree that startle training is important. Here is a story from the simulator: A first officer had completed his simulator training for upgrade to commander, and it was time for his skill test. I was assigned to control the simulator, and the CAA had appointed the manager of flight operations to be examiner. During the briefing before the test, we agreed that the examiner would tap on a pilot's shoulder if this pilot should become incapacitated. We entered the simulator and started the test. Everything went well, and the examiner was especially impressed by the candidate's execution of a go-around. So, the examiner leaned forward, tapped his shoulder and said "Well done!" The candidate didn't hear the comment and thought that this was the signal to become incapacitated. But instead of playing dead, he started to sing and fly erratically. It caught us all by surprise. I never forget the expression of the first officer! It took a few seconds before he understood what was going on and took control. Afterwards, we had a good laugh. And the company had a new captain.
Haha! What an awesome story!
😃
Just to make sure I understood, the candidate was the one who received the signal to become incapacitated?
@@snakefangs21 , yes.
😀 That’s an amazing anecdote. It made me smile, thank you for sharing.
Obviously the job of a pilot is complex but before watching your videos I didn’t comprehend the sheer amount of mathematical and physics knowledge, calm headedness, technical and engineering knowledge, teamwork and communication that was required. It’s absolutely fascinating.
...at the end of the day, fly the airplane...but were talking about Frenchies.....
Its really not that deep
@@RaccooniusIII Do you fly airplanes?
@@wokewokerman5280and what is this supposed to mean dear friend ?
Actually after realizing this, I have become afraid to fly!
As a former airline pilot, and flight instructor, I found when pilots are in a flight simulater, they know whatever happens will not end in their demise! I saw differences in pilots who may have done well in a simulater but when they experienced issues flying an airliner with passengers they reacted differently. While simulaters are a great tool to train pilots with, I always thought a real flight in a plane that had serious issues thrown at the trainee pilot would have been better. Unfortunately, due to the enormous expense this would create it can't be done! When I was taught to fly in the 1950s, flight simulaters, and the planes we flew were no where near as complicated as today's aircraft! I believe this is the main reason things like this video happen! I love your channel by the way and am a subscriber and watch all the videos. Now at the young age of 82, I can't fly anymore but love watching videos about flying. Your channel is the best for showing accidents which I think all pilots should watch as much as they can.
Yes. Derek Pigott was the UK's most famous and experienced glider pilot and instructor. In his time, he introduced many professional pilots to glider-flying. In his initial training, he subjected the trainee to a few seconds of zero-G, or even slight negative-G. He was horrified to find that this experience could induce extreme panic in a small minority of experienced professional civilian pilots. (Military pilots would have been screened for this.)
I think you'll enjoy hearing about one method NASA used to train space shuttle pilots: gliding and landing a t39 trainer, with the gear down, spoilers deployed, and engines in reverse.
@@unflexian I think what you are referring to is the Gulfstream 2 Shuttle Training Aircraft, not the T38 (T39? not sure what this is).
"Simulator"
@Freq412 the T-39 also called the Sabreliner was a military training aircraft for navy and marine pilots that also had civilian variants seeing use as a business jet.
As an emergency physician this happened to me too once early in my career. During a nightshift I was treating a patient for what I thought was life threatening condition A when in fact he was suffering from life threatening condition B. Unfortunately the therapies for both conditions were 180 degrees opposite. So as I kept treating this patient for condition A, which he didn’t have, he was getting worse and worse.
In all the chaos and confusion, the only thing I did right, when I didn’t understand why the patient was getting worse despite what I thought was the right treatment, was that I called another specialist for help.
He came and immediately saw what was going on, took over control and corrected my mistake (and then scolded me to within an inch of my feeling of self-worth).
Reviewing the incident afterwards it was clear that there were actually no signs at all in this patient pointing to condition A. I just got the idea in my head and was unable to depart that train of thought (a well known cognitive error and similar to partial / congitive incapacitation I think)
After this incident (btw the patient recovered completely, no thanks to me) I to this day always make sure I am aware of possible biases in myself or the residents I supervise.
It still remains the worst and most embarrassing medical mistake I ever made. But at least I learned from it (and thank God no-one died).
No matter how professional we are or how diligently we try to work, I suppose we are all just humans and can make mistakes.
Thank you Petter for enabling other pilots to learn from this aviation incident without having to make the mistake themselves!
I believe what happened with you was confirmation bias
@@apurvitanna Nope, a confirmation bias is when you take the facts that suits your assessment and ignoring all the facts that goes against your idea.
Here, he says that in fact from the start, there were no sign directing to condition A. So no bias.
He was just overwhelmed by the situation and decided that the patient had condition A, despite no sign of condition A.
But it's good to see that there were no fatality, and better that he learned from that. In fact, it made him better doctor. :)
I think the correct name of this particular bias is the „Anchoring bias”. This is however closely related to the confirmation bias and they usually go hand in hand, one compounding the other. Pat Croskerry wrote a lot of super interesting material on this subject btw.
But the important thing to me is that all professionals (doctors, pilots or otherwise) should ideally be aware of all kinds of possible cognitive errors or biases when making important decisions. Which is why I shared this account of my less-than-proud moment in my carreer.
Do you mind sharing what the two diagnoses were? I am a medical student and this is a great learning experience for all of us. Thanks for sharing
@@jadawo Sure, I just thought it might be too technical for some readers and more readable so I just wrote A and B. But as long as the patient-anonimity is not compromised I don’t mind sharing.
The patient was a middle aged diabetic who was referred to the E.D. because of not feeling well, shortness of breath and tachypnea. So even before the patient arrived I figured it would probably be a case of diabetic ketoacidosis (-> treatment: among other things give lots and lots of fluids). In reality the patient was suffering from congestive heartfailure (-> treatment: absolutely don’t give any fluids but instead medications to redistribute the fluids already present in the patient and get rid of the patients fluids after that).
So as I extra overloaded the patients already compromised cardiac system with more fluids the patients normal heart rhythm (SR) went into all kinds of abnormalities and we even had to do CPR on the patient for a few moments.
That is when things were so obviously going wrong that I could not explain it with DKA anymore so I called the cardiologist who came and saved the patient.
The disturbing thing is that when I was still busy diagnosing this patient I looked at the screen with the lab results and actually saw the confirming results I was expecting (!). After the incident I of course reviewed the lab results and to my horror saw that both the glucose- and pH-levels were absolutely normal and I could have never seen results fitting DKA.
I was not hallucinating when I misdiagnosed the patient (and I never have in my life) but to me this shows the power of biases.
They can actually distort the percieved reality as I found out!
I think this was very similar to partial or cognitive incapacitation as shown in the video and I wish everyone to be aware of the dangers of this.
I hope this helps.
Best of luck in your career Jadawo and please keep this in mind. And maybe read some of the stuff Dr Croskerry wrote.
I've seen a student giving a class presentation completely freeze up due to the stress. Something went wrong in his presentation, he lost his train of thought, and he just stopped responding to input or attempting to go on. Eventually through calm talk, the professor was able to help him get restarted, but it the first time I've seen someone completely frozen from stress.
this happened to me one time in my life. it was when I was in the navy, going before the surface warfare board. I'd been going to training for a few months, had a study group that included a couple of members of the board and really was prepared. they knew, I knew the stuff, and the board was a formality. I don't know what happened!! I couldn't even answer the easy questions. they told me my face turned red and I was stuttering. afterwards I couldn't remember much. not sure what happened. never happened again. maybe I'm describing a panic attack and its different. not sure, but it sucks when you freeze up and your mind goes blank.
A few years ago I was driving down the motorway on a route I know well when I got a call saying my teenage son had been taken to hospital having had an epileptic seizure at the top of some stairs. I was about sixty miles from home and my wife was away at her mother's. I took the next available turn off and headed back home in the opposite direction. I also managed to call a friend to ask him to go to the hospital and find my son in A&E. After what felt like about five minutes I suddenly realised I didn't recognise where I was. I knew this road really well but I just didn't recognise anything. At the next junction sign I finally realised that I had driven past where I always have to turn off onto another motorway to get home. I turned round and headed back. I found I had driven fifteen miles past my normal turn. Not only that but I was a long way before that junction the last time I remember anything clearly. In that 'five minutes' I had driven twenty miles to my normal junction, driven past it and carried on for another fifteen miles before I became aware again. Insane.
@@blotski Yeah, it's nuts what the mind can do when it's overloaded, ill, or stressed. I'm reminded of George Miller's "The Magical Number Seven, Plus or Minus Two" theory. He posits that the mind can keep 7 +/- 2 things in short-term memory at a given time. At your best, you might be able to keep 9 things in memory, at your worst, only 5.
If you're super-stressed and obsessing over something, it can push everything out of your mind. You're lucky you had enough cognizance under that much stress to even drive the car safely, forget navigation.
I hope your son is doing better.
@@swampcat0712 mind freeze can happen in battle, job interview. It can be devastating. Its like a sudden lack of cofidence washing over you. It can happen in any instance. I usually handle the emergency calmly, then have a breakdown once its resolved. Relax after.
I have felt like I had experienced mind freeze before while I was presenting my final project to a panel of professors in my senior year in university. It felt like I was in a fog and everything was moving in slow motion. I had trouble finding words, and I felt like I couldn't keep up. But oddly enough, when I rewatched a recording of my presentation, I performed perfectly fine from the outside.
It's astonishing to see how quickly things can go south, literally in a matter of minutes,
in a completely normal situation, without any warning.
In this case the problem was that the airplane gave to many warnings at once 😄
Not even minutes, sometimes it's juste seconds
Unlike this airplane, which was told to go south but had a considerable delay in completing the turn
I see what you did there.. @@sirius940
Better to sail than to fly. Same thrills, less danger, more time to react.
I’m a captain on A320. And so impressed that Boeing 737 mentor can clearly explain about Airbus FMA!
Somewhat. The FO was manually (hand) flying with A/P and A/T off and F/D on. His presentation depicted the PFD F/D incorrectly during the GA saying he was "flying manually" Not exactly. With the F/D engaged selecting TOGA would change the F/D to GA mode and give correct vertical and lateral guidance. Even if the FO were flying "manually" with F/D off, selecting TOGA would turn them back on.
@@LeeMatches I agree that you agree.
Im an anesthesiologist who is interested in avation because we start to use CRM and checklists and all that "safety" measurements stuff in modern medicine today, to improve patient security. That moment of cognitive incapacitation feels known to me when i had my first critical incident in theatre in my very early days and i wasnt expecting stuff to happen. I love the CIRS reports you give here and i learn a lot for my profession, even im not a pilot. Keep going!
Glad to hear that it can be applied in different fields as well.
I work for a critical care transport team, we use CRM as well on transports to communicate and make sure everything is being done and that we are all on the same page.
Well said Stephke - thank you. If memory serves, the Swiss Cheese Model was applied/used in medical applications, prior to Professor Reason (University of Manchester?) applying it to aviation events.
@@daveroche6522 Yeah, the Swiss Cheese Model is used in virtually every field that deals with risk management these days. It has different names in some fields (e.g. Defense in Depth,) but the idea is the same in virtually all of them. And, really, even in non-professional settings, nearly everyone applies it to some extent when dealing with risk management in their day-to-day lives, even if they don't intentionally give much specific thought to it. It's very rare in any field that involves risk for any one single measure to completely eliminate risk, but rather several overlapping measures with reasonable cost/benefit ratios are taken to reduce risk to an acceptable level for an acceptable cost.
My opinion is, there is very little room for anyone with other people’s lives in their hands to be incapacitated due to a surprise. Snap out of it, quickly.
The amount of info that you need to be aware of at any given moment as an airline pilot to me is mind boggling. Kudos to pilots for managing all that so well.
Yeah the concept of 'workload' for pilots, I can definitely feel the pressure as a viewer, for a 'high workload'.
Dispatching 911, police, fire, ambulance, etc is very similar...a lot like air traffic control.
From the outside it's absurdly complex, and watching someone do it with practiced autonomy makes it look complicated when in fact it's a decision tree of many many many many simple actions in quick succession. Definitely the edge cases that will bite you since they are equally simple but much more rare.
Is there? I think it's not much more than day to day activities. You just have to get used to it so you process the information efficiently without thinking too much. Taxiing can be hard and a lot of mistakes do happen, but the speed is as slow as it gets so it's more embarrassing than dangerous.
@@frollard I think ATC and dispatching is a lot more complicated, of course the resources available are a lot broader.
It all comes back to training, experience and practice. As a ppl I was always taught Aviate, navigate communicate. And practice, practice practice.
In the final report, it is stated that the First Officer took two 14 hours night to recover. This landing was the final of a very long Paris-San Francisco-Papeete-San Francisco-Paris rotation with a full 12 hours of jet lag.
Full Blame on French bee for that planning !!! I took that company many times, I will think twice the next time.
Found it really interesting how rare go arounds are, I’ve been a passenger in 3 go arounds in around 50 flights, of which only one was in terrible conditions, so I assumed it was quite a common thing so I was quite surprised to hear just how rare it is.
Same here, I thought go arounds were very common and so was training for it.
happened to me once and was the most terrifying experience i've had flying
Thats what happens when you dont turn your phone into flight mode
I've flown so many times in my life that I couldn't possibly count and I have never experienced a go around. It would be scary!
Lol and here I am, a kiwi in New Zealand, think that seems wrong - go arounds are definitely more common than that at Wellington Aiport 😂😂 I've been on at LEAST 2 myself as a passenger. One was pretty laidback, didn't really come in to the runway, flew over it pretty high. The other the plane touched down very briefly and took off again. I don't recall why, but both times it was BLOODY windy.
Just retired , 30,000 hours plus, 43 years flying , this is one of the best aviation videos I have ever seen
BZ.
Congratulations on your retirement! Awesome career, Blessings☺️
The phrase 'Tell Him Off' is used for naughty children.
When you use it in relation to a Captain, or any cockpit crew, it curls my toenails.
I'm Australian, so it's not that I think of Captains as semi sacred beings
dude spent 3.45 years flying lmao
I quit paramedic school even though academically I was at the top of my class but after achieving EMT intermediate I realize that I was unable to handle extreme demands without anxiety. I realized that when the patient need me most I would be in the way and a huge hindrance to anyone working with me.
@John Moxon
If you read through the many comments, you'll see that all kinds of higher-level professionals have chimed in with having frozen at critical moments and some speak of how they became better at handling it.
It's a shame you gave up on yourself so quickly. It sounds like you could've used some more training in how to deal with stress, and it sounds like you could've used some experience under your belt, and with time, you'd realize you could've done the job. (Again, everything from anesthesiologists, surgeons, business owners, and other pilots have chimed in on this comment section saying how, especially at the beginnings of their careers, they would "shut down" when under high stress.)
Hoping you're enjoying whatever path you ended up on, though, and not hiding under the bed.
Well kudos to you for knowing your limits & not pushing them. You could have gotten help to control your stress, but the surest way, as lives other than yours involved, was to seek a different career path...hopefully it was just as rewarding. Just thinking about flying makes me nauseous & frantic...so I just don't fly...ever! End of conflict...total peace of mind😊👍
@@reeritz1280 "Just thinking about flying makes me nauseous & frantic" And yet here you are watching air-crash investigation videos 🙂
@@conorpodonoghuewell ye its normal for the human brain to try learn everything that can go wrong with u have a phobia like that
Its literally just how we work
The more anxious you are, the more u try to learn about it
I hope you seek some support for your anxiety., It can get better!!
Hi Petter, I’m a Senior Training Capt on the A350 with a major airline. Excellent video. I really like the idea of a brief recap of the missed approach at around LOC intercept. I can concur with the stats for go arounds… I’ve been a long haul Capt for 18 years and have had to carry out 4 missed approaches.
I really like this channel. Having worked at FAA for 9 years - albeit in the Office of Commercial Space Transportation - I have encountered numerous stories about situations such as this. I'm really impressed at how Mentorpilot narrates a thorough incident investigation, both technically and, especially, from a human perspective.
That's what I like about Mentorpilot too; the balance of technical and human.
Preventing these sorts of events would easier if "partial incapacity" were properly recognized as a form of panic attack. I recently retired after 45 years practicing medicine, and I have a clear recollection of going through a few experiences very much like this early in my training and practice. A couple of times I was thrust into the position of being the physician responsible for running a "Code Blue" in a small hospital, in the middle of the night, with little experience and less than ideal ancillary support services available. Four decades later I can still recall the feeling of my head being stuffed with cotton, unable to think, with no one to defer to. With time, practice and experience all physicians get over the hump, and become comfortable with performing during emergencies. All pilots who are at risk for occasional unfamiliar emergencies should receive training in techniques for recognizing vulnerability, and working through the mental paralysis of panic.
This comment deserves so many likes. I’ve been wondering for a while exactly what “partial incapacity” actually is. The explanation of it in terms of panic attack like responses in stressful situations where a person is supposed to be in control was exactly the explanation I needed. It reminds me of “deer caught in headlights” but worse feeling (I imagine) because you’ve been trained for it.
In some cases these panic attacks are not noticeable. I sometimes get them at the start of my presentations, they end up as a harmless 20 second silence. A little awkward, and that's all. But it would have way worse consequences if my profession was different.
@@_-Karl-_ You can't even autocorrect "go-around" in normal state. But you expect someone panicking to do so?
@@_-Karl-_ There are other incapacities other than vision that aren't easily tested or understood. It's easy to miss things when you're disadvantaged, and that can happen very easily. I'm sorry I pressed on a sore point, however surely you can understand then how things can be missed in a disadvantaged circumstance?
yes. i just wrote something similar... before seeing this. thanks!
What's funny about the startle effect is none of actually know how we'd react unless it happened for real. It's very easy to sit in a rocking chair and say I'd handle that like a champ. Thanks as always for the amazing videos.
Even a Champ can stall and spin sometimes. (I would spin mine just for fun.)
@@kensherwin4544 champion is what I meant but I can see how my wording may have been confusing
This is why I always hate it when you get these really extreme "what if" scenarios. Like you better half giving the "If there was a burning house and you could only save me or your mother, which would you save". I refuse to answer anything like this, I don't know as I've never been in that scenario and don't know how I would react. I could freeze and panic and not do anything mentally stalled as to what I would actually do. (actually I do know how I would react, I'd save the dogs)
@@tedferkin exactly! I hate how people react to situations where others are clearly under the effects of a panic attack or “partial incapacitation” like “they could have done this or that!” “They’re not responsible enough!” as if anyone could have any sort of control over their actions in such situation.
Hindsight is always 20/20...
I’m a captain on airbus, those videos are great. Been binge watching them for hours. One better then the other. Thank you so much. Great work.
This crew was not really professional....
I really enjoy the way you caringly present these videos. It would be easy to criticize and blame and even ridicule pilots for their mistakes, but you don't. Good work!
That's the spirit in aviation, you don't blame people, we're all human. You look at what, if anything, can be improved to avoid it happening in the first place.
Your coverage of the more recent accidents has more significant immersion and feels more "real". Thank you for everything, Petter!
Thank YOU for watching and contributing.
@@MentourPilot interesting how you didn't mention the names because their actions were questionable. I work in a nuclear power plant and that's exactly how we write incident reports. No names, no company names (if it's a contractor).
He has been using story telling skills share for sure. Wish we had this 20 years ago I would have definitely pursued by childhood ambition to be a pilot. I love it.
I legit get stressed out watching these videos. Your ability to make this feel like it's happening to me is incredible. If I were the captain, that plane would crash. I'm a baker. I'm perfectly fine with my heavy machines being bolted to the floor. If they go airborne, that means something is very very wrong. Respect to all the pilots out there.
I just imagined a commercial mixer, oven and dishwasher flying in formation through the roof of a shop.
@@doggondoggydog :-D
Yep. Airborne ovens are definitely not acceptable behavior.
I'm glad to hear that there is a button to force control away from an incapacitated or noncompliant pilot. I shudder to imagine a situation where "punch" becomes an option...
... although it would be hilarious to hear the voice warning system give off a "Pilot unfit, please punch" instruction 😂
Having flashbacks of Airplane's inflatable co-pilot.
Or tell pilots retard in another meaning
what happens when both press their takeover button?
@@peterheinzo515 a special-use sword is descended from the ceiling, he who grasps it first and strikes his foe down, wins
@@peterheinzo515 i would assume last pressed one would take priority (based on when you press multiple keys on a normal computer) but it’s very problem that captain’s takes command
I've just discovered this channel a couple days ago. And I never realized before how much a pilot can do without their colleague right next to them noticing. This really goes to show how important communication is.
I didn't know about that one! Was very interesting to watch! Always waiting for your videos!
And we are always waiting for your videos, Denys😉
@@CaptBerty 😃
I, too.
wassup Denys😎
@@projectbluemartin7532 All is good
Honestly this story really creeped me out. I can attest that seeing person go into that sort of complete daze is terrifying even when you’re just sitting at home, much less hurtling through the sky in command of a metal tube full of hundreds of people.
I was a low hour Private Pilot years ago, but stopped because my work travel made flying enough to be safe impossible.
As an electrical engineer, I really appreciate your presentation and analysis of these flights. I am so impressed with current day navigation and status reporting in commercial aircraft, and also in private aircraft.
A very good series and I watch them. Excellent.
Thank you for knowing when to stop. It's a tough choice and not many are able to make it.
Hopefully at some point you can go back to flying and with that attitude I'm sure you'll be a great pilot
I don't fly that much, probably just 4 to 5 times a year. But I had my shares of "go-around", more like abort landing; each and every time, we were like seconds to land (I can see the runway as a passenger). The first time was in Chicago during winter and we had tons of turbulence. As we were probably 100 ft from the tarmac, we could feel a very sudden lift and followed by a big drop. Over the screams, we could hear the engines roared and the plane pitched up. When we leveled off, the captain said something about micro burst or shear (I don't remember the aviation lingual). Anyway I only remember his last sentence, "You got my promise that I won't land this plane unless it is absolutely safe."
That's crazy, I fly a lot and never experienced a go around, I only fly between European countries and the Middle East though, maybe the weather in the US is that much worse.
@@c.w.8200 If you fly a lot, chances are that you probably had a few go arounds - it is not uncommon that many pilots don't even announce it. Of the three aborts I experienced, only one pilot actually went on the PA and told us what happened. The other two pilots basically said nothing.
There are differences in how fast weather changes and how often you get bad visibility.
Chicago is for example quite prone to it.
In many other places you would know in advance that you would have to go to alternate airport before attempting a landing and doing a go-around when that fails.
A place like Frankfurt, Germany probably sees a go-around once every 10 years, while Chicago or some other places sees multiple per year.
Why does everyone seem to get their fair share of go-arounds and I am still waiting to experience one? That is just not fair...
@@Colaholiker It will happen. I fly between 40 to 70 flights a year and i only had my first and only go-around in 2019. I always wanted to experience it but it was the worst possible timing, since i was already late. :D
The partial incapacitation is very terrifying
Yes, it’s a very tricky thing to diagnose.
@@MentourPilot There are systems in some cars which are trying to diagnose people "sleeping" by diagnosing eye movements. Maybe something like that can be adopted for pilots ... because it sounds as if the affected person is "sleepwalking".
@@MentourPilot As a total noob regarding flying and procedures I was wondering if the pilot on the junp seat could have done something regarding the incapacitated Co-Pilot. May it have been possible for her to replace the Co Pilot?
@@MentourPilot What about some simple like
captain: officer ?
officer: yes
So if you don't have any response after 3 requests you can guess something is wrong.
I rather enjoy my micro sleeps every day at work. It helps me get through the day in an office job.
Wow this channel has evolved beyond recognition. The last time I had checked it, the content was mostly about pilot life for enthusiasts. Now it’s more useful than actual airline safety debriefs 😅
Nice job captain. I’m actually taking practical lessons for the job.
I'm surprised at the go-around stats. I've formed the impression that it was something that happens frequently from watching other videos.
I have been flying quite frequently over the decades and can't remember a single go around, so the stats confirm that.
I was surprised too for a moment. These are the kinds of false impressions that can be created for laypersons by focusing on what are essentially the most exceptional circumstances. I find a very similar phenomena occurring in the true crime community, where I often encounter individuals who assume there is a violent crime wave currently when the opposite is true. It exemplifies the importance of statistics in countering these kinds of false impressions.
@@aarondavis8943 go around.
It sure seemed to happen a lot to me when I was flying a lot, and it seemed like it was always for the same reason. The aircraft taking off on the runway we were landing on aborted their take-off. Nothing evenly remotely scary, but still a surprise when you hear those engines suddenly roar to life.
Watching flighradar 24, our local airport rarely has a day that doesn't have multiple go-arounds!
There are so many concepts that the aircraft and flying industry uses, that can and should apply to other industries. EVEN if it's not life threatening. Very valuable stuff.
They do.
In industry, defence, aerospace, medicine, chemistry, etc.
doctors and nurses also encounter the same problem. In a book called "House of God" the ER Doctor says the first thing to do when a patient has no pulse is to check to see if you have one yourself. The idea is that you need to be in control of yourself before you can take control of any situation
Nice one Joseph! Hadn't heard of that before, but sums it up very well!
What that reminds me off, it's not uncommon for me whenever I start a new job, or start a new project, is to dream about that. And often, I dream about everything going wrong in illogical ways. I can imagine doctors might dream about feeling patients' pulses and not feeling anything, so if they're trained to check themselves, they could draw the conclusion that they're not in a real situation, but a dream.
Many years ago, I looked into lucid dreaming, and that has the same idea. Train yourself on doing some task to verify if you're awake in the real world, or if you're dreaming. Once you do that, and you diagnose yourself to be asleep, you have achieved lucid dreaming.
I already did that, and my pulse was 200bpm. Actually, I could hear it, very loud.
My eyes opened wider when you stated that this all happened in a four-minute time period! I love the whole premise of the investigation reports - analyse backwards to the root cause, then issue sensible recommendations to help all aviators better manage a similar situation in future (I esp liked the idea of 'startle' training). RCA is a very effective tool. Thank you Mentour for another superb video!
4 minutes is a long time at that speed on a short runway !
@@millomweb (sigh) It's not a short runway and they weren't on it, they were above it. Did you watch the video?
@@cr10001 How long was the runway in seconds at the speed they were flying ? You do the math.
@@millomweb They were doing a go around. Length of the runway was irrelevant. What was relevant was permissible altitudes and distance to the prescribed turn, which are unrelated to runway length.
The complexity of this event freaks me out a little. Since I don't fly, I have no idea how easy it would be to recognize whether someone was half in and half out by changes to what the plane has been asked to do. I've always gotten the impression that cockpit crews are such a fine oiled team that anything out of the ordinary would warrant a "count backwards from 50 for me, would you?" type of check to see whether someone is still fully aware. Then I go back to the fact that this all happened in only 4 minutes time, all the incorrect commands the 1st officer gave the plane and I'm wondering how anyone can actually keep track of what's going on in the cockpit when someone isn't fully cognizant and is asking the plane to do incorrect things. Kinda blows my mind.
This video explained to me something about myself i never understood. As a parent of 5 kids, sometimes it seems like everyone is talking to me, asking for things, etc all at once. I become partially incapacitated and unable to understand and act sensibly very easily. If three people ask me to make them three lunches all at once while the youngest is screaming and my wife wants my attention i get overwhelmed and need to take a step back for a minute and try again.
I work in healthcare as part of the lab, and we are the ones responsible for a lot of different tasks, especially when there is something like a massive transfusion protocol initiated within the hospital. Seeing the cognitive incapacitation in this one was like walking into a wall of bricks (because that is honestly what it feels like when it happens) and it is truly difficult to organize your thoughts when you are suddenly overwhelmed with things that you need to do in a short period of time. I felt for all of these pilots with this story...there isn't any blame to be had, I don't think, and I am very glad that they were able to land safely, after everything was said and done. Even after more than 10 years of being involved in similar high-stress environments, there are still times where my brain will just shut off, even if it's something I've done many times before, and this makes me glad that I have coworkers who are able to see when that happens to any of us and automatically step into the role to get things done. It happens to everyone, at one point or another.
I was wondering why it took the captain so long to decide to 'take control' Then you said the whole situation took all of four minutes. Wow. Not so long after all. You pilots are really amazing, especially in a crisis.
@Stanley Martin I think Gillian is both right on the human capability point and Issa is right on the situation. But Mentor Pilot correctly points out there are many systems in the aircraft to help, or hinder in situations of stress but I add that enough of those systems worked. That is the industry got another fright and a correction to its practices.
What on earth has that ignorant WOW to do with this informative presentation?
@@rossbrown6641 nothing ignorant about the Wow. It was a complimentary wow.Astonished that everything happened that fast
14:29 Captain: "Everyone silent! I am the only one giving orders!"
14:32 Mentour: "On the surface, that my sound very harsh..."
Nah, I was thinking more along the lines of "No more piloting from you, first officer!"
I can understand the reason for it, but it does seem kinda anti-CRM. I'd suggest: "Nobody touch anything! Your perspective is valued, but until we land, please ask for permission prior to making any suggestions." :-)
@@joemcgulligut7874 That's too many word. They were in the middle of an emergency. You have to disregard snowflake's feeling, during emergency.
The captain took over control as captain. Clear and short. There are reasons why orders are done like that.
@@joemcgulligut7874 it's a plane full of people breaking multiple rules, there is no "please" it's orders
Yes he should have been more respectful of the crews feelings. His words could be taken as degrading the first officers feelings, and sexist for talking to a woman in such a tone.
Love how it’s narrated. No useless details, serious and straight to the point
I was shocked that all that chaos occurred in about four minutes. What a mess! Thank goodness the Captain spoke up and adamantly announced he was in control of the aircraft. He was the magic reset button that was needed at that moment.
My driving instructor made every driving lesson into an input overload training. He was constantly shouting out everything that could require my attention in the next 10 seconds. It was quite stressful and really annoying, but it worked. It helps learning to remain in control in high stress situations, and also trains you to look out for all those things automatically just to get him shut up and let you drive for more than 30 seconds.
Sounds like he was the distraction from you focusing on driving and on the environment and road conditions around you.
When you say "now things start happening in rapid succession" or "and this is when things start happening quickly" I know it's about to get rough.
😂😂😂
It's his polite way of saying that shit is about to get real, and in a hurry.
Should add that to his merch shirts 😂
My initial gut reaction was to ground the FO, get him the hell out of the cockpit. But Petter's calm, measured explanation had a positive effect and helped me realize how destructive such a reaction would have been. Damn! I love this channel.
This is heart warming to watch, all to often changes are made after loss of life because of a terrible accident but in this case lessons were learned and changes implemented to make flying safer for us all after a near miss. Well done to all involved!
Great analysis. I am a surgeon (30yrs) and an aerobatic pilot. We use a CRM model in the OR every case. We function as a team and rely on each other to communicate clearly and cross check each other for accuracy. A partial incapacitation during an unexpected critical event would be difficult to recognize for the surgeon (pilot in command) and random, unrecognized inputs by another team member under extreme stress should be considered a possibility by the team. This is another scenario to prepare for,, as unlikely as it is.. This the lesson I learned here. Thank you.
Anaesthetist here. This is why I watch these videos
@@fredjones554 911 operator chiming in. Absolutely team effort and I've seen this literal phenomenon deer-headlights as a dispatch unfold and becomes more complex. Tricky.
If you want to communicate clearly you should perhaps not use acronyms like CRM without explaining them first, such as follows: Crew Resource Management (CRM). I searched it, and had a vague recollection, but actually it's not the first result & will mean different things to other people.
This type of incapacitation happens to many crucial situations such as on doctors as well. When my brother who is a doctor at a hospital, was monitoring another doctor perform a treatment, a small but potentially lethal mistake made by that doctor caused that doctor to suddenly stop and couldn't do anything just like the First Officer of this flight. My brother quickly took over and called doctors from other floors to come in and help and didn't blame the doctor who made the mistake. Luckily the patient was fine afterwards and no long-term effects occurred.
Situations like this are extremely rare but still happens, it's the training, practice, and extra safety measures that will help and prevent them. Also the lessons we learn from them that matters the most.
As always, yet another splendid video by Mentour Pilot!
I often hear the opinion that planes practically fly themselves. I’m impressed that not only is that not true but the volume of information and experience pilots must have so that passengers have a good uneventful flying experience. I really didn’t think it was easy, but your videos have been very interesting and I appreciate the pilots and crew more now than I did previously. Thank you for such great videos
I think the entire Airline Industry should pitch iun and support your channel on CZcams. Your quiet, sensible and professional delivery is both informative, and strangely reassuring - thanks mate 👍
Whenever I decide to take on a "longer" video, I find myself engaged in subtle incapacitation. I can get bored and lose focus on what I'm watching. That absolutely does not happen when I watch your videos. You are so knowledgeable and well-spoken that I remain focused and wanting more of what you provide. Being an Avgeek, I always have a thirst for knowledge and you absolutely provide that. Thank you!
"Cognitive incapacitation": In my line of work we called it "deer in the headlights syndrome". I'm always impressed by how similar your line of work is to mine. I worked (before retirement) in a power plant. We both operate complex machines, and manage unexpected departures from normal operating conditions. So much of what you say on the matter of CRM is profoundly relevant to all of us who stand between technology, and the people who seek to benefit from it.
i would imagine a surgeon would say the same thing.
I was surprised that there is not more emphasis on "startling situations" in the simulator training. It seems so essential for pilots to be able to respond to the unexpected. Many of your videos highlight this!
Reminds me of plenty of times at sea: almost every real-world emergency comes out of nowhere and how I reacted was related to fatigue, ongoing workload, how complex the casualty, etc. Sometimes I nailed the response, sometimes I locked up too. Very relatable!
Great stuff! I very much enjoy your videos. Excellent method of delivering the information!
I'm a retired American Airlines Captain. I was rated on the 777, 767, 757 and 737. I was a "line" Check Airman on the 737.
My uncle was a Delta Captain and check airman.
One of his favorite sayings...."no approach is so good that can't be waved off" (go around). I passed that nugget of info along to every First Officer I flew with.
Further, I always commented "be ready for a go around" after glide slope intercept call out (a standard pilot monitoring call for us as well as glide slop intercept altitude (just to ensure we are in agreement with the Jepp page) and to keep everyone on their toes and thinking about a go around since the procedure is performed so infrequently.
I flew long haul from JFK to Narita-Tokyo (15-17 hours depending on seasonal winds); 4 pilots total. Even with 4 pilots and two 3+ hour breaks, "micro naps" (a total incapacitation, with eyes wide open, lasting just a few seconds) was something we looked for in the pilot flying while on approach. The brain sometimes goes into fog mode, almost numb after that long in the air, even for flight crews.
I micro nap a lot when my wife is talking about emotions. Love some micro naps.
"Startle Training"... my first instructor was fond of this... popping a door open at rotation, and a couple of times he yanked the mixture... I learned not to react, but to respond, and to keep flying the plane no matter what.
Fun times.
What happened to fly to plane?? I don't understand why the captain took so long to take over. And this is one of the reasons I'm not a fan of Airbus. The pilots can fight each other and not even know it . The put one in the ocean because of this
@@Gtrips07 what I wanna know is where that pilot lives so I can wack him Accross the face for freezing up like that 😡
Ouch!!
@@Gtrips07 Did you not hear the time frames he gave on this video? Took the captain less than 1 minute to take over. The entire incident only took place over 4 minutes total. Everything happened lickety split.
This is one of your best de-constructions of a near-accident situation, ever. What every viewer heard is the voice of your experience.
Amazing video. I love the nuts and bolts of your videos. They explain clearly the scenario and, without being condescending or overly dramatic, what happened, how the industry learned from it. These really are the platinum standard of these videos. Excellent work and if at all possible, keep it up.
I am a frequent flyer and suffer of subtle incapacitation when the flight attendant tells me "no more gin tonics, Sir !" 😁
Jokes appart, very good and instructive analysis as always Mentour Pilot.
Muchas gracias y saludos desde Gran Canaria.
Thank you again Petter. I vaguely remember the story of a person who grew up dreaming about becoming a commercial pilot; did it by the book, studied hard, took all the lessons he could, achieved his P.P.L., was recruited by a carrier, passed all criteria (no difficulties/issues/problems in the sim) and was put on active duty - thing is, on his first 'live' flight, he suddenly realised the enormity of being responsible for hundreds of lives and said - "NOPE" - he found that burden too great, so decided there and then that he just couldn't do it (despite being technically (very) proficient). Point being, none of us - none - can predict or actually know how we'll react when we encounter something completely unexpected. Fun fact - one day I was driving to work and suddenly there was smoke and some flames under the dashboard - all I could think was - "don't panic, mirror-signal-maneuver, stop, shut it down, get out and call it in" - fortunately it worked out ok (it was a short which would have gotten a lot worse). Just sayin'.
I stopped flying French charters, only if they let me use the jump seat!
people who understand how you fly them, are unable to not get involved in these situations, this pandemonium. Smart people need to take control!
we pilots learn!
We need the FAA, we need good regulations, and the great Airbus planes!
What i would do, stop practicing on any warnings!
Yeah, thats why aptitude tests are so important before starting down the commercial road
Same thing happened to me while flying a small 4 seater plane. Smoke made breathing difficult and couldn't see through the windscreen. The smell indicated an electrical fault so I MAYDAYED and then turned off ALL the electrics before attempting an emergency landinding. At 100ft,the smoke had cleared, I realised that the field was unsuitable so I went around and landed safely at the nearest airport.
The stress had been so I sleept all afternoon.
The technician later called me to say he repaired a short circuit behind the dashboard and that the plane was now airworthy.
I wouldn’t believe that story if I were u. There is no pressure or enormity because of passengers in the back. We get trained and we know we can fly safely. In 30 years of flying, never once are passengers in my mind during flight.
@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183: You might be thinking about them in a mayday situation. At least I hope so.
You are so good at explaining and breaking down everything involved with the incident! No one can do this content as well as you. You are the best in the business and I mean that. I have never been interested in aviation content, but I can binge watch your videos. So you're killing it!
I think Petter is now among my top ten sources for weird human brain glitches. This is one that I'm very happy to have a search term for. I've read so many stories about this happening to ship's captains throughout the decades, especially in WW2 but in storms and other natural crises as well. I have noticed an *anecdotal* trend towards ship's officers who distance themselves from their crews, and display a combative leadership style, seemingly being more prone to this phenomenon, but I don't have enough data to prove it.
As an ex Royal Navy pilot a call off or go around was practiced regularly as they could happen, for real, at any time on an aircraft carrier; so I was surprised to see that the expectation of it occuring on a civilian flight was between 1 and 4 years! The number of go arounds on your channel alone seems to imply much more frequently than this! I have always felt completely safe on passenger flights it's the unknown and unpredictable that gets through now.. Thanks for the good work on your channel.
Well, it's the same as thinking that the number of disasters must be high because there are a lot featured on the channel. You don't cover all of the flights where nothing goes wrong. I'd guess that the greater number of go arounds on a carrier is partly because the aircraft are of very different performance, and partly because as well as weather and aircraft condition, there is the extra variable of the runway moving about; an airport on land is not going to suddenly catch a swell and tip over, after all.
@@WJS774 True, as you say, Go arounds may not be too frequent but must be enough to practice. They are, after all, the "most likely" emergency that will happen to anyone.
Moving runways is not the problem it's deck conditions that cause the majority of go arounds, aircraft in the wrong place, clutter on the deck - hoses etc. the fire party attending an off runway accidentand, smoke and so on. Good fun.
Not to mention far less catastrophy training or out of simulator real world failure training. Fk my uncle had me land my first plane at 14 on 10 second notice. Might weed out more of the pilots but they dont want to waste the training money from them.
@@JohnPaul-my6ct Actually the fact that they happen so rarely is the reason for the high startle behaviour - you simply never expect something to go wrong. Whereas if you always had to deal with difficult conditions, you would be more used to responding consciously.
Thank goodness for an experienced captain who wasn't afraid to take charge. In an emergency, common sense would say the most experienced person must step up and take charge, and not sit back, afraid to hurt the less experienced person's feelings. The captain was then able to defuse the situation, despite someone who seemed to be actively sabotaging him! I should hope that he was commended for his actions.
I agree it sounds like the captain did all the right actions here. Some were criticising him for not using the autopilot but he didn't know what he could trust. When things aren't going as planned and you don't know what's wrong, taking manual control can be the only way to be sure you still have a responsive craft.
The woman in the jump seat had the most hours.
This was really interesting to watch. I was on a plane flying into San Diego once where we actually touched down and then suddenly the pilot went around and flew out over the ocean. Never found out why, but it was definitely a scary ride to be on. Learning more about go-arounds is really eye opening. Thanks for all you do, it’s interesting!
The go-around statistics make that story of 6 missed approaches on one flight absolutely crazy.
Some people freeze up in surprise situations and no amount of training will eliminate that possibility. The prudent thing to do is to screen these people out before they get into the cockpit with hundreds of souls sitting behind them.
To be fair, no amount of training will completely _eliminate_ any possibility, and neither will any screening. They'll just mitigate it. Also, doesn't training also serve as a sort of screening?
I don't think that it's about some people versus others.
My guess would be that everyone freezes up if you give them enough of an information overload.
The way to prevent that, is to train them to the point where their personal limit (of information overload before becoming incapacitated) is so high that they'll be able to cope with it.
But hey, I'm not a neuroscientist, so who knows :p
@@MrNicoJac Some people are more prone too freezing than others, but it is not easy to test and screen for because such a screening basically requires real live danger and overload that no simulator can create because the candidate knows they are in a simulator. The tendency may also be highly influenced by the candidates acute mental and physical state at the time of the test and event, thus freezing in one but not the other because of a large number of variables.
In addition using a single historical event in the candidates life is poor because a very intense negative event may have changed their mental perception and actually made them highly immune to future freezing. (But this change is not any more reliable or testable than any other basic tendency to freeze.) And that is only in the rare cases where there was some record of the event.
@@mytech6779
That all sounds fair.
But do you agree with me that freezing mostly depends on overload/training, or not?
Tangent:
I guess that you could actually take "unit of overload per unit of training" as a pretty literal ratio, even.
Although more as a concept than as a metric, probably.
Imagine if you set policy and fired pilots for not having good enough startle resistance.
Military trains for this by doing stress tests. Do engine failure and go around drills in the simulator while a drill sergeant yells at you or real smoke enters the cockpit or the temperature is raised to 80C or lower der to -40C. It makes people more resilient to stressful situations. Habituation to startlement can avoid this incapacitation.
I think you do a very good job, I have been a pilot since 1980 and nice to see someone like yourself taking the time to go over mistakes made and what should have taken place. Good job !
As a retired commercial pilot, I find your videos still most interesting and helpful to somewhat maintain my knowledge of flying and all its intricacies, etc.. TYVM for allowing me to share your awesome videos.!!
Honestly the amount of time and effort that you put into these videos makes me even happier to be a patreon. You being a pilot yourself really helps as you know what you are talking about & makes the thought of flying (to me personally a lot safer!) you have taught me a lot and there’s still loads to learn and I’m ready🤓 thank you for being such a great creator!
So happy to hear that and thank you for your support! It’s thanks to you guys we can create videos like this.
I agree, it's super nice :)
Oh Shit.. .Its Ricky Spanish... the most evil persona to ever exist
@@txaggievet yaaaay someone got the name😂 thank you!!!
I am an airline pilot and this is probably one of the best safety videos I have seen in a while. Fantastic! Keep up the good work. I think we all get complacent sometimes. Regarding go-arounds, I think in the approach briefing you should 100% plan for one and then if you don’t, it’s a bonus…..
Thats how I was trained at Spartan School of Aeronautics. Plan for and assume you will be initiating a go around until you don't have to. Actually saved my arse one night. Practicing lights out landings at Keystone lake one night and just as I touched down and hit my lights I saw lots of eyes reflecting from the runway right in front of me. A couple dozen deer were on the runway but because I was mentally prepared and able to act immediately I got the plane back in the air and cleared the deer by maybe a couple feet. Hitting a heard of deer at 40-50 mph in a C150 might not be deadly to myself but guaranteed it would have messed the plane up and left me stranded late at night at a very quiet uncontrolled airport...lol
@@stevewarren5386 Wouldn't have been a little deadly for some of those deer though.
It is scary to think that those professionals would freak out from a warning message.
That is exactly when they should get super aware and be at the top of their game.
I am kind of disappointed to see all the people in the comments section donning grandmotherly roles, poor chap bla bla bla. As if thats gonna make any difference. We have to accept the fact that some people are incapable of being pilots. Just like some people are not good enough to drive cars. No amount of RECOMMENDATIONS is going to change that basic fact.
@@indianfan1029braindead take
beyond the realm of mental disabilities, everyone has the capacity to learn anything
read the tsb report and maybe take a broader look at what happened instead of scapegoating
wow based on the videos I'd expected a go around was done much more commonly, it seems like in every video they make like 3 go arounds but that "once every 5-10 years" really puts things into perspective, even once a year is rare
iam a 76~year ~old retired charter electronic engineer. after graduation, I had attended an interview with British Airway to become a pilot in Birmingham, UK.
of course, I failed at the interview 🙃. it's always my dream to become a pilot.
your videos are interesting and informative 👍. very well prepared and presented. Congratulations 🎊, keep up the excellent work 👏
Greetings from Hong Kong ❤
These lesser known incidents are extra interesting, thanks for the great content!
I suspect there will be many more of theese than accident incidents.
Yes, absolutely.
The A350 has the Coolest Windshield Design.
I didn't even know this kind of startle-reflex-into-incapacitation was a thing! I thought for sure the FO was having a seizure.
19:41 I'm just a passenger and fly maybe once a year, but did experience a go-around once. We were told another aircraft failed to vacate the runway in time. The flight attendants seemed unimpressed, which made me assume this happens all the time. Interesting to learn it doesn't.
No it doesn't but it's a good thing. It means the pilots have good judgement and the support from the industry to make the call to go around for any reason.
I assume that's why its no big deal. The problem is most likely averted.
@@westowndrow4128 "Go arounds" happen all the time at general aviation (GA) airports even thought the airports are controlled by the FAA. Just visit the KCDW tower where many incidents have happened over the years, not because of ATC, but because of the volume of traffic. JFK Jr, departed from this airport before his eventful crash at Martha's Vinyard. This effect is not limited to the airlines because most large airports are highly controlled. But just listen to the ground controllers at KLGA or KJFK once in a while. Stuff happens all the time. It happens more often at GA airports, but GA pilots are more experienced with confusion than the airlines are. Sometimes I think GA pilots are better than airline pilots when it comes down to handling quick changes in procedures. This is because GA airports handle mostly visual flight conditions (VFR) traffic. FAA controlled GA airports must be able to handle GA pilots as well as jets and scheduled airliners. The very large airports like JFK or Chicago mostly handly all airline traffic which is mostly flown my everyday professional pilots who have their C**T together. But the first officer in this case should not have been hired as a first officer in my opinion. Even student pilots in small GA aircraft are expected to do more than that guy did. He froze up with lives behind him. Good thing the Captain was able to take command. Too bad the passengers spent 4 minutes having the C**T scared out of them due to a first officer who became a "deer" way too soon. Why did they hire the guy in the first place? He never asked the captain if it was ok for him to make control input changes by confirmation. JMHO
funny enough i´ve seen incapasitation a lot while working in a german beergarten ^^ huge workload and the new guys just went brain-afk.
I've gone into it when I've been overloaded. fortunately not in such critical circumstances.
I think this probably happens allot with drivers. Someone has been driving the same route with the same traffic to work for years, and then all of sudden something unexpected happens.
@@icucingme Agree with you - I liked the recommendation in the final report for 'startle' training, and it would definitely have good application for drivers etc.
@@icucingme Yes! I have experienced this when coming to an unexpected road work zone at night, traffic cones and lights seem to be everywhere and making no sense
@@questionmark4348 Honestly I think some simulator time could be a valuable addition to driving courses. This way you can simulate uncommon situations that are hard to find in real life to give practical training and yet often end badly for that reason. That way you can train drivers how to deal with them in advance so they are more prepared.
Really useful. I've never heard of startle/unfamiliar stimuli being described as cognitive incapacitation, but it's a great way to think about it.
I can't imgine how much time you put into your amazing videos! THANK YOU so much! I am binging them during the rain!
There was a startle incident with an Air Canada flight a few years back when the first officer woke from a snooze at night over the Atlantic and mistook a bright star for another aircraft and took dramatic maneuvers
Morgan - You mean "incident." Not indecent.
@@claudiatraudt1835 Yes, thanks!
@@claudiatraudt1835 The "startle indecent" is when the pilot wakes up and moons the passengers.
Happened to me when I fell asleep with my car on autopilot. Woke up and mistook a street lamp on the highway for headlights coming towards me and swerved 😭
@@youngeshmoney Feel bad for all those nightclub goers you ran over that night. Hahaha
I can relate to that 'freezing' - I'm very prone to it as well.
I have owned and worked in several post offices, and one day, when the shop was as busy as I had ever seen it, the POS computer stopped working. It took me ages to figure out what the issue was, which was simply the Num-Lock key had been nudged off by accident!
If it hadn't been for there being so many customers waiting and getting more and more impatient, I'd have spotted it straight away. As it was I sat staring at the keyboard and in the end had to ask the customers to come back the next day.
Embarrassing to say the least - but thank heavens it couldn't lead to any fatalities!
Every dang time my car breaks down I act like I've been lobotomized. I feel ya.
Thoughts and prayers
I prefer your videos to other documentaries bc it emphasizes what happens rather than being "shocking and dramatic" without explaining the real incident well. Thank you for these! Just an interested learner type and appreciate your relation of CRM and leadership to other industries and life.
Bravo...!
You are a Real Instructor.
I am a retired pilot at 58 and my last aircraft is Airbus A350 900/1000. I am an Airbus guy throughout my professional career.
I have been watching your videos for quite some time and I told my son, who’s at the beginning of his career, to subscribe to your channel. So much to learn.
Thanks and Godspeed...
While playing Microsoft Flight Simulator and doing complex approaches, I thought I was the only person who had this problem of workloads being too much, and it's probably one of the main reasons I never pursued a career as a pilot.
Thank you for your service
@@endokrin7897 ?
Any examples of particularly complex approaches?
@@ghammond3132 ah yes, one day should determine someone's eligibility for their entire career.
@@endokrin7897😂😂😂😂
I was shocked to learn that an airline pilot may only have to do a go around once in a year or once every 3-5 years.
I always set up for a go around and if everything works out, I land. :)
We practice go arounds every 9 months in the simulator
When I was at the regionals in the states I would land log about 30 to 40 landings a month.. I would do about 1 go around a month for various reasons.. flying at my current carrier.. much less since r fly longer legs.
I am not a frequent flyer. I would guess that I have been an airline passenger no more than a hundred times in my life, but I have experienced one go-around as a passenger. This was on a US Air flight from DC landing in Charlotte, NC, some time in the 2000's. I had a window seat, and the plane was very low when they initiated the go-around . I can't say an exact altitude, but I was expecting touchdown in the next few seconds when I heard the engines throttle up and the plane started climbing. The captain announced that it was due to "conflicting ground traffic". Not having the runway in view, I don't know how close we came to disaster.
@@russlehman2070 I just posted the exact same experience when landing at Dallas Ft Worth. Same seating with engine roar, same altitude, same announcement by captain, and surprise that it is so rare. Whadya know.
@@longemd I think the brain inevitably knows that no lives will be lost in a simulator and as such the experience gained is not real.
It reminded me of me learning to drive. I had this exact experience of subtle incapacitation when I needed to urgently stop at an unusual place and I drove in total for just a few hours at that point. My drive instructor took over, smashed the breaks and yelled at me - this actually woke me up lol
The Captain did exactly the right thing. he established his command and stopped the cross talk and took control of his aircraft. Well done.
It's amazing how easy it is to upset the brain's train of thought and induce subtle incapacitation.
Shortly after getting my PPL, I took my wife and daughter for a $100 burger flight, and on the approach back home, ATC gave the option of a long landing since our intended parking was closer to the departure end of the RWY.
As we floated just above touchdown on the runway, my daughter asked a question (I don't recall what) and in the process of answering, I lost focus on the PRIMARY task before catching myself in a scary right-drift approaching the side of the runway as I was ready to touchdown within the last 3,000' ft to threshold (single-engine piper). I had accomplished this landing quite a few times prior to getting the license, with no incidents.
As I taxied after scaring myself, my daughter, (I don't think my wife noticed since she was in the back) and most likely ATC, I did a retrospective and every flight since brief a no non-critical flight-related conversations during final or takeoff until out of ATC or common traffic control space.
I recently had a serious stress related breakdown due to work stresses, I can totally relate to the incapacitation you say here although mine came on over a number of years coming to a head when our workplace had significantly less staff than required , it has been months since and I still am not back at 100% ... can relate to this , great job.
How good is this channel !
Peter thank you for such interesting videos. Enjoy them very much and watching for years 👏👏🙏😀
I absolutely love your videos and have learned a lot about aviation mechanics and the aerodynamics of flight! Just the right balance of technical information and engaging delivery. Thank you so much!
That’s exactly what I’m going for. Enjoy this video and let me know what you think.
Mentour Pilot is such a fantastic communicator, and as a non-aviator, but keen enthusiast I have learned so much too!
I'm not a pilot, but I somehow think that co-pilot has learned one of the most valuable lessons about himself in his life. He afterwards probably felt like sticking his head up his own backside and die of shame, but will for sure not allow himself to fall in the same trap again. As far as the captain is concerned, I salute him for not dreamed up an ax and dished out a few educational slaps with the flat side. All is well that ends well and always the most valuable lessons learned.
Well I for one hope he is driving a real bus instead.
@@moltderenou The guy is obviously an accomplished pilot. If you fire everyone for an error no one will learn from their mistakes and every pilot will be a newbe. No one was hurt which works in his favor. He wouldn't make that mistake again.
@@moltderenou you generous. Unblocking my toilet. He does noone any harm then and has all the time to do it not just 4 minutes. Professionals don't get startled to incapacitation by normal events. Learner drivers do
@@haiwatigere6202 Okay Mr Armchair pilot, where'd you get your degree? Tiktok flight school?
@@j.jwhitty5861 There is a reason why there should always be two people involved in this kind of dangerous situations where an incapacitation of one person has serious implications. It's basically only for road traffic we don't have good safety measures and no backup driver.
Great videos, very good detailed explanations that succinctly describe the scenarios without being over technical.
A good piece of advice I was given “Treat every approach as a go around with the possibility of a landing “
The problem with these long haul pilots is they no longer train in situations like Go Arounds so when it does eventually happen they forget how to fly a plane altogether. They rely on Autopilot so much they forget how to manually fly the aircraft Big or Small. A dumb world we live in. Here you are BIG shot pilot of a A350 and you forget to do a go around when a the student pilots do it in their sleep in a tiny ass Cessna
Something similar happened to me years ago, my capt suddenly froze up on a go around because of unexpected windshear, on a tricky go around proc around bad wx around the airport... Recognizing the level of conciousness of our pairing during such condition is really crucial.. i was able to wake him up by continous stimuly verbally and visually.. basicly telling him what to do and showing where to look... Landed safely but sure was an experience
I agree wholeheartedly with the anesthesiologist who stated, in essence, that the lessons that we learn from aviation can in someways be applied to other professions with regard to crew resource management and attention to detail. You do a great service not only for aviators and the aviation enthusiast, but for the general public as well who have the opportunity to apply some of the lessons learned.
In this case would you say the lesson learned is to train medical professionals to deal with their startle response? And are there any other lessons?
As a firefighter I 100% agree!
There seem to be a lesson around working out what is going wrong when supervising another anesthesiologist who is administering the anesthetic and the anaesthetic is not going as excepted to consider issues in the anesthesiologist as well.: I once had a junior (resident) who was in charge while I went for coffee who called me back saying the blood pressure machines was not working on either arm when it was the patient who had no blood pressure. Also it illustrates the need for clarity as to who is in charge are three (or more) doctor in the room and this is now emphasized on Life Support Courses for emergencies when a high authority gradient is required (although the person in charge may not necessarily be the most senior doctor involved - I once attended a maternal cardiac arrest where we had two obstetricians and four anesthetists - two of who were ALS instructors and we got the medical registrar to be in charge while the obstetrician operated and we managed the lines and actual administration of blood and fluids etc.) Both these patients survived. Lots of lesson that are translatable to medical practice.
@@R2Bl3nd Why should only medical personnel profit from such experiences being shared? _Everybody_ can get into complicated situations in which he has to act speedily, if he wants to secure a good conscience - particularly car users, but also already cyclists or people who should administer first aid.
I follow a lot of CZcams channels but none are as gripping and well presented as this one, Bravo sir👍❤️