Martini Henry vs Springfield Trapdoor
Vložit
- čas přidán 9. 12. 2019
- Comparing the British Martini-Henry with the American Springfield Trapdoor!
First Martini-Henry video: • Martini-Henry Rifle
Springfield Trapdoor Video: • Springfield Trapdoor
Trapdoor Big Game Hunt: • Springfield Trapdoor ....
------------------------ Remember to check out our video clips on the Hickok45Clips channel: / @hickok45clips
Also, check out the Hickok45talks channel for new “talking” content. / @hickok45talks
Please check out and support the people who help make this channel possible:
Become a Gong Club member at our Patreon Page: / hickok45
SDI (Sonoran Desert Institute): www.sdi.edu/hickok45/
Alabama Holster: alabamaholster.com/
Talon Grips: talongungrips.com/
Ballistol: ballistol.com/
ALSO, Many of our videos are on Rumble and GunStreamer.com:
rumble.com/hickok45
gunstreamer.com/@Hickok45
The short FAQ Videos playlist will answer most questions you have:
• FAQ Videos
Find us on Hickok45 Twitter and Facebook, as well as “therealHickok45” on Instagram.
Hickok45 videos are filmed on my own private shooting range and property by trained professionals for educational and entertainment purposes only, with emphasis on firearms safety and responsible gun ownership. We are NOT in the business of selling firearms or performing modifications on them. Do not attempt to copy at home anything you see in our videos. Firearms can be extremely dangerous if not used safely. - Sport
The british training manuals said an experienced soldier was expected to fire 9-11 rounds per minute. The springfield was expected to fire 7-9 rounds per minute.
Firing the mad-minute drill many folks can get close to 20 rounds on target. Best I've seen was 21 shots in the black at 100 yards.
Sorry about my "Kentucky Math." $200.00 per box of 20 would be $10.00 per shot by most non-Kentucky calculators! You'd think I'd know since I'm the one who forked over the bucks. :-)
Also, here are some links to some previous videos with these rifles, although there are a couple of others you might also find or have seen:
First Martini-Henry video: czcams.com/video/Y4SHUhXCvRY/video.html
Springfield Trapdoor Video: czcams.com/video/XAPMOyh4cRs/video.html
Trapdoor Big Game Hunt: czcams.com/video/1wIt9muW7SY/video.html
hickok45 where did you even find the ammo? I’ve thought about getting a Martini Henry but I couldn’t even find ammo even for $10 a round
Thank you, Hickok. I'm in Kentucky and I had my neighbors over counting their fingers and toes until you said something.
Buffalo ARms.
This raised an interesting question. What is the most expensive ammo you've fired?
@@randonwilston The only reason to get a Martini IS to reload for it, that's half the pleasure :)
There is something extremely satisfying with single shot rifles.
Agree!
first that comes to my mind , Ruger No. 1 Rifle
If you've never tried a muzzleloader I highly recommend it.
And bolt actions
I think it has something to do with the time between shots. You know you have to make every one count so it slows you down and you become more aware of good shooting technique and the BIG 3. Sight picture, breathing, trigger squeeze.
I'm sure there were those who lamented over the passing of these single shots in favor of those "new-fangled" bolt guns that allowed you to shoot faster/more. Just like I've read novels that talked about military members who would drone on about the semi-autos (Garand/M14 etc...) and how you could "spray and pray" with them and how those would degrade marksmanship.
I think the best weapon to teach marksmanship with is still a single shot .22 LR.
Off into the bayou, to hunt some monsters
@@D_S_88 and these rifles just got added to the game, finally!
Hunt some hunters....... I wonder if John plays this game, seeing as both of these were just added.
Don't let the spider get ya, it's vicious.
Hell yeah brother.
@@D_S_88 does the game include repeating crossbows and hand cranked gatling guns
Martini-Henry always gives me memories of movie, ZULU".
The Battle of Rawkes Drift.
Colour Sergeant Bourne: " Mr. Chard, Sir. The patrol's come back. The Zulus have gone... All of them. It's a miracle ! "
Lt. Chard: " If it's a miracle, Colour Sergeant, it's a short chambered Boxer Henry .45 calibre miracle ! "
Colour Sergeant Bourne: " ...AND a bayonet, Sir... with some guts behind it ! "
@@colinmoore7460 the missionary station at rorkes drift is still there, it was the building that caught fire in the film.
Edit: they did have to rebuild it after the battle though.
I love that movie
It does for me as well while screaming late 1800's and putting me in the US late 1800s in a small western town
This needs more likes it’s a martini and a Springfield there ain’t much better single shots come on
Werder Blitzgewehr , my favourite rifle
I love my 1884 Trapdoor Springfield. It has been in my family since it was new.
Fusil gras
Wayne F do you have to use black powder with it or can it handle modern ammo I've never even seen one in real life but I'm a huge fan of this weapon
@@halfcantan1208 I have only used black powder cartridges with it. I haven't started reloading for it yet, but I read that they can't handle the modern ammunition and the reloading data for the Trapdoor is reduced from the more modern loads.
I own both and I shoot them often but i prefer the martini more. Both are good rifles but I prefer the lever action to the trap door. Hand loading 577/450 with your own lead castle drops the price down to around $1.50-$2, getting lead cheap really helps.
Find a local tire shop. Most would be happy to let you take their used wheel weights.
go to you nearest tire shop and ask for their old wheel weights.
nvm, other guy beat me to it
Make sure to clean the wheel weights in soapy water to remove the road salt or it will be a problem when you smelt it.
"Zulus...thousands of 'em..."
"Very good Colour Sergeant. Stand To."
@@downunderrob Expected the reply to "don't throw those bloody spears at me!" Well done
@@ihcfn"Mr Witt, Sir. Be quiet now. There's a good Gentleman. You'll upset the lads." 😆
@@ihcfn "You slovenly soldier, Hitch."
@@downunderrob "Allllllllllright....nobody told you to stop working!"
Bartender, I'd like a Henry martini.
Jindle Spog best comment that will be on here
I’ll have a Luger and lime!
I need a dirty one😂
Is that shaken or singleshot
bartender: *aims at the customer and 7:39
You can certainly see the progression of the Springfield from Muzzle loader to trap-door to the Bolt action! The lines are so clearly retained.
Any Hunt: Showdown boys here?
RDRII for me.
Yup :D
bruh exactly!
That’s exactly what I was thinking ! 😂
@@storm479 just to die to a sabre camper. The struggle is real lol
The martini-Henry has such a rich history. I grew up reading Kipling and the Martini figured heavily in tales such as "Soldiers Three", I would pick Martini-Henry every day. Great Video and far too few "likes", Thank You Hickok & Son.
I'd always go for the Martini Henry , very strong ,very fast lock time .
OMG I love this man and channel. For years I have been invested in this channel and I am so glad it is thriving with all the support and love it has.
Ahh.. the martini
"REAR RANK ,FIRE"
"ADVANCE!"
Thanks for the video... I love the Hickok history lessons. Can't beat it as the course content is guided by pure passion for the topic!
Great video! So glad you do so many of these. I have several BP family heirlooms in disrepair and seeing your vids has inspired me to at least get a couple of them fixed and going again.
Always fun to watch your videos. Hikock is very modest and respectful, a great teacher of history through firearms.. I don't doubt that you were an excellent teacher in your own profession 'back in the day'.
Again, always nice to watch your videos and keep up the good work. I look forward to watching your Sundays shoot outs. Thanks hikock 🔫🔫🔫
Edit: grammar mistake
P..s never know how to spell Hickock ........😋🤪
“Zulus attack! Fight back to back! Show them no mercy and fire at will! Kill or be killed!”
AND THEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED!
@@Bambusbjoern. FAR FROM THEIR LAND AS THEY MADE THEIR STAND, STILL DISREGARDING DEMAND!
*Grasps his lapels* Have you even seen the film?
@@burninsherman8284 THEN THE 189,
IN THE SERVICE OF HEAVEN.
THEY'RE PROTECTING THE HOLY LINE,
IT WAS 1527.
INTO THE MOTHERLAND THE GERMAN ARMY MARCHED
great video as allways.i had the pleasure of shooting a martini henry at yawgoog scout camp in rhode island.the range master owns one that was rechambered in 22 lr and cut to a carbine length.he stated that they were converted for the civilian marksmanship program.i found it to be very accurate and a great piece of history.my thanks goes out to him.that gun is now on my wish list.keep up the great work
hickok.
It's great you went back to the Trapdoor, one of my favorites, that and lever guns, thanks again Mr. Hickok45
Martini-Henry obviously superior, but converting Springfields was so cheap.
Almost everything is better than the Springfield
commenting is what I do over then muzzle loaders
commenting is what I do why?
@ET Hardcorgamer Whatever.
Martini looks really slick and modern but I like aesthetics of Springfield more.
I just love the Martini-Henry rifle. Looks awesome, that breach loader is amazingly simple and elegant. Wonderful weapon!
just saw my first Martini-Henry a few weeks ago!
Holy crap! Neat gun!
the one I saw had the straight-walled ammo, like a brass shotgun shell with a big ol' bullet crimped in it!
Thanks for the video!
Martini-Henry - when the Empire strikes back.
It seems that the Martini is a faster reload in the hands of an experienced rifleman imo
Prost! (engl: Cheers!) from Bavaria, Germany. I love these old Martini Rifles, they're just fun to shoot in my Experience.
Never tried one of those Springfield Models, but they look like fun as well.
Keep up the good Work!
Proost! (engl: Cheers!) from Groningen, Netherlands.
What was the German miltary rifle of this era, i have a Mauser 71/84 tube magazine rifle made in 1888
@@r1wantone It was the one you have. First G(mauser) 71, a single shot rifle, than it got upgraded in 1884, therefor G 71/84.
@Josh Every state in Germany has a unique dialect and culture - of course most of the things in daily life are the same but the language in particular can be very different (just like scottish is different from irish, canadian or british). 'Prost' is just the bavarian word for 'zum Wohl' (Cheers). Hi in bavarian would be 'Servus' or 'Grias de' (Grüß dich). :)
He just got off the hunt showdown grind
Mark Schrello It’s obvious where the game derived the inspiration. Him.
I would like to see more comparisons between British and American firearms
Unclecomrade420 same
I second that comment. British, American & German comparisons.
Bringing out the classics lately. I like 😁
When I was a young lad..growing up in Canada..back in the early sixties...I used to go to a gun shop in Vancouver BC...they had old oak barrels full of Martini rifles at $25 a pop...and from another barrel, you could get a naval cutlass for about $15....of course, at that time a Lee Enfield Jungle carbine was $25 at the Army & Navy store. The Martinis back then were being bought for conversion to floor lamps....sure wish I could find one of those old floor lamps now!
I paid $35.00 for a no.4 mk1 when l was 16 yrs. old. My first drer rifle and it worked real goood.
Had a early trapdoor for many years their fun! One of my favorites.
Martini Henry or a Trapdoor? Martini all day long, and twice on Sunday! It had the fastest lock time of the era.
Also one of the strongest
Chassepot rifle ...
@@intselec2184 mm needle rifle
Can't catch exactly why, but something so fascinating about those trapdoor rifles..perhaps as hickok mentioned it's the transition from musket style to rifles using cartridges.
“Great gun for da fence:”. John Hickok - 2019
Absolutely love my trapdoor. looking to get the Martini-Henry next. Great Vid Sir!
Appreciate y’all from Texas
Good stuff, I have recently been given an 1873 Trapdoor, and intend to shoot it pretty soon. Thanks for the video. -Gunny T sends
As usual, your ability to pick up about any gun there is and whang that gong never ceases to amaze me. I happen to have one of the Martini Henry rifles and enjoy shooting it. It is about the most expensive shooing experience I can think of getting into-or at least in my case it was.
Wolfe Publishing has some smokeless loads that I've used and there's a guy close by (X-ring Services) who makes up cases out of 24 gauge Mag-Tech shotgun cases. I bought all the dies etc. to make my own and a couple of moulds also. Now that I have them, it's a simple matter to handload for the old gun.
The 577/450 is a real thumper of a cartridge. I enjoy shooting that old gun a lot. Always gets attention at the range.
Thanks for uploading may you live a long life
Thank you for sharing. It's always a privilege and a honer to watch your videos. Fascinating guns, I like them both. . . . I would need to get into hand loading if I were going to fire them often though.
honestly my favorite breach loaders are the Martini-Henry, the springfield Trapdoor and the 1874 Sharps, with the sharps and Martini-Henry being the top 2
been waiting for this one.
not disappointed.
made my day.
thanks.
Just wow!!! Hickok demos some history in fire arms. thx
GONG!!!!! That/s a hell of a wallop that martini delivers
Those are some cool rifles!! I love the 45-70 from a historical perspective and that it is still a viable hunting round.
Ugh, I owned a 45-70 for a while. It's a beast that will bruise the SHIT out of your shoulder.
@@R3dp055um My experience with 45-70 was more of a rocking motion with a Marlin lever action. Similar to how .45s push instead of snap.
The martini Henry was used in the Zulu wars , at islawanda where the brits lost , an historical fact was the amount of smoke created by the Henry was on mass causing sighting problems when killing the zulus
Putting soldiers to far forward spreading the firepower is also thought to have played a part,the further the Zulu Warriors had to run the more concentrated withering fire they would have had to endure,the ammunition box story does not get so much credence these days.
Been watching for about a month now and loving it. Great to watch someone who is passionate about something. But I do wonder where you keep all your weapons? Is there an armoury? Can we get a little tour video?
Hickok: Says it costs $200 for a pack of 20 bullets.
Also Hickok: It's something else when you fire a gun that is $5 a shot.
Me: *Visible Confusion*
He was doing Kentucky math
Confused me too and then I remembered that he’s Hickok so he must be right and my calculator must be off
$10 is what it costs. $5 is what you tell your wife.
Double stack cartridges, just pull the trigger twice.
BF1 vs RDR2
Exactly
RDR 2 ALL DAYYYYYY
Two legendary games
They should add the Martini Henry to red dead
@@MausOfTheHouse lol!!!! i said "exactly" at the same time i saw your comment!
Once I saw Martini Henry I hit the like before watching it! Love this collection Hickok
I absolutely love the trapdoor but after growing up putting lead down range with my dad's Henry-Martinis they have a special place in my heart.
I like the Henry-Martini because Heart of Darkness, but I'd probably take the Springfield, the smoke seems more manageable, and the shell ejector is helpful.
Sometimes he just talks too much and I love it. Thank you Hickok.
Love learning and seeing these historicial firearms from days gone by
Entertaining video. One of the first rifles I bought (as a teenager) was an 1884 Trapdoor. My experience with Snider-Enfields and Martinis is much more recent, thanks to a number of deployments to Afghanistan where all-original, authentic examples of each could be found at the local bazaars (but one had to know one's business to ensure he was getting the real McCoy, inside and out). The closer analog to the Trapdoor is arguably the Snider-Enfield, as both can trace their direct lineage to converted muzzle loaders. (Of the two actions, I think the Snider's is handier and more reliable.). The Martini-Henry, on the other hand, is a more advanced rifle of a completely new design; it went through four different (major) model configurations (speaking of the .577-.450 variants, that is). The Martini began replacing the Snider in first rate organizations in the early 1870s, whereas the US stuck with the Trapdoor long into obsolesence. Two minor quibbles with Hickok45's comments about the Martini: it does not have an internal hammer; rather, it is striker fired. The design connection between the hammer-equipped Peabody and the Martini (as voiced by Hickok45) is hotly debated and broad consensus either way remains elusive. For what it's worth, I prefer any of the Mark I, II or III rifles (and comparable carbines) over the Mark IV, which is featured in this video. The earlier Marks earned their battlefield chops in the hands of the British infantry in various continents well before the Mark IV came on the scene (by which time is was largely outclassed by more advanced arms elsewhere). Today, reloading supplies are readily available for the Martini enthusiast.
“$200 for a box of 20, I don’t know if y’all have fired something that is five dollars a shot.” Hickok45 must be from Kentucky.
The early 45-78 case had an extraction problem, often jamming the action on the Springfield. i.e. evidence from the Custer Battle site. The Martini-Henry had no such problem. The Brits practiced a volley style fire that was very effective against a numerically force. In 1873 I would have to choose the Martini-Henry.
Early Trap Door cases were made of Copper, too soft. Early Martini's had problems with the British using coiled brass cases. (Very Dumb idea)
Might've been less accurate cuz the stock isn't one piece
I mean, not exactly. The failure rate of the trapdoor rifle got tested and the failure rate would've been negligible in an actual fight. It was the larger numbers of the Native Americans that led to their victory along with the fact it was a coalition of nations.
I have had a trap door "pumpkin roller" and several BSA Martini .22's ( models 12, 15, & a MK4 International match). The trapdoor is a well built rifle, but the Martini's have one advantage. Regardless of caliber, they have a faster lock time. Probably not important in battle, but on a bench rest, every little thing helps accuracy. The only old time rifle I am aware of with a faster lock time was the Sharps Borchart (per Frank DeHass). Thanks for the presentation. Salute from Missouri!
Your history videos are amongst my favorite.
Damn, that .577/450 really _smacks_ the gong. That's an ounce of lead going over a thousand feet per second for you...
Always wanted to shoot a Martini-Henry because of Zulu. Also Ian from forgotten weapons just reviewed a book about the Martini-Henry that goes into the historical use of it.
Love all the videos you make
The way you load that martini Henry Is insanely cool, I kinda want one
The video we all needed
2 of some of the finest rifles, its all about those Breach Loaders.
You are making best videos about guns!
Former Leopard 2 tank gunner here, the 120 mm grenades I shot where in the thousands a piece, made sure to never miss a shot.
They should remake tails of the gun and have Hickok45 host every episode.
The British equivalent of the trapdoor Springfield was the Snider.
to be fair trapdoor springfield barely changed since the original catridge conversion.
Then there was the Austrian empire wanzl rifle
I love this video, kind of a forgotten weapon's with much more shooting, by Hickok, Thanks Hickok, John.
We use a sub caliber device ( Chamber adapter) for the Martini and shoot .45 long Colt cartridges that work very well. And for the Trapdoor we use 40 grains of 3F black powder with a 230 grain Colt bullet. This saves money as well as the old shoulder.
I love them both but I’ll go with the martini Henry, it reloads faster and larger bullet
"The is a great gun for Da Fence". Great one!
It's nice to see someone talking sensibly about firearms
Great rifles. The Martini Henry is my favourite but I really like the Springfield too.
I make my own martini rounds from 24guage brass shot shells.
I get MOA with a 500grn paperpatch pure lead round.
Hi i'm from japan.I love gun.🇯🇵👍
Hello from the USA!
🔫🔫
My GOD the reverberations from the Martini hitting that gong are STRONG.
Having first watched the movie Zulu in 1964, the Martini-Henry became something of a grail firearm that, regrettably, I never acquired. So thanks for another vicarious look at it. I can't imagine trying to reload as an enemy horde charged at you in the reality that was Rorke's Drift in 1879.
And to top it off, the rolled brass cartridge of the day had an occasional durability issue. This could leave your rifle out of service, with only a bayonet to defend you.
"Goodness me, the jungle has come out to meet us, Leftenant! Be a good lad and shoot them, will you?"
Martini
Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been one tapped with the Martini Henry in BF1
Diquan Spikes got that great sweet spot range
@@dawsongranger4940 i played that a lot and never got that sweet spot thing :/ but i love that game and love to use the henry.
was my fav gun
@@kingshanethe1st Never got it as in you didn't understand how it worked or never manage to get it to work?
One of the best videos I have seen.
I always did like the looks and the action of the Springfield trapdoor
I reload the Martini ammo and it is quite a job being paper patched and the cartridge needs to be full, that' without any space at all. Very meticulous reloading indeed.
Please post a video, I'm case forming magtech brass tonight.
Ashley Bell do you buy your bullets patched? Or patch them yourself? I’ve done it but mine always look like a kindergarten made them
@@taggartlawfirm I patch my own projectiles but it takes time and a lot of mess soaking the paper in flour and water. Can only do it when I am eager for a shoot.
Check out British Muzzleloaders channel. He has a video on reloading 577/45. You might pick up some tips on improving the outcome of your paper patching efforts.
@@richardelliott9511 Thanks Richard, will have a look there.
I’m watching from Saudi Arabia 🇸🇦 and I like your rifles😍
Have been a fan of muzzle-loaders, been a fan of lever-actions. But I always seemed to miss that weird transition between muzzle-loaded and bolt-action. Springfield Trapdoor looks so satisfying to fire.
I’m the proud owner of a Martini-Henry Mk II dated 1876. They were state of the art rifles in the 19th century. They patrolled and expanded the empire. Martini’s were issued as late as WWI and were used to shoot down German balloons. They saw continued service occasionally when the .303 (an impressive round) proved inadequate for bringing down Parthans on the Northwest Frontier. A few years ago a Taliban weapons cache was captured and in it was a Martini-Henry that was captured in the Second Anglo-Afghan War, still in use along with modern small arms.
Custer's men of the 7th cav. were armed with the Springfield trapdoor 45/70. Tennessee
Were the early 45-70's made with copper cases that jammed ?
@@2pugman yep, after Custer got annihilated they switched to brass
@@2pugman But I don't think that was the reason for his defeat at the Little Big Horn, at least nothing that I've read suggests that. That's not to say that the rifle wasn't a factor, but it was because it was a single shot rifle and had a much slower rate of fire compared to the lever actions that many of the Indians were armed with. But, I'd argue that his being greatly outnumbered and the splitting up of the 7th were bigger factors in his ultimate defeat, but the slow(ish) firing Springfields didn't help either.
@@Riceball01 Absolutely !
@@Riceball01
One problem was the carbines reduced accuracy compromised the advantage of the 45-70 compared to the Winchesters and Henry's the Sioux, Cheyenne, and Arapahoe (SCA) had. The decision to split the column and leave the infantry behind ended up being a fatal mistake.
At Rosebud Crook's Crow and Shoshone Auxiliaries (I believe somewhat armed with repeaters) and his Cavalry troopers were almost overwhelmed but accurate longer range fire from his infantry kept the SCA warriors at bay.
Martini henry having roricks drift flashbacks
Springfield trapdoor having Custer's last stand flashbacks
Nah, only Springfield carbines were at LBH (forgive my cheekyness). A lot of people wonder what if the Gatling guns would have been at LBH, but I doubt in the rough terrain they would have made much if any difference. More important were the hundreds of infantry and their rifles that were with them. The rifles performed great at the Wagon Box fight (1866 conversion), Hayfield fight (1866 conversion), and helped save Crook's bacon at Rosebud. If one gets the chance I recommend going to Fort Phil Kearny historic site and the nearby battlefields. The terrain maintains an isolated feeling even in modern times that gives a little sense to the vast isolation of the post in 1866.
Would'nt isandlanwana be a better comparison?
@@jamess7576 be honest, the Springfield was a bad gun, just the beginning a streak of very poor weapon adoptions by the US army
@@themanformerlyknownascomme777
Can't agree with your assessment. It performed well and the simplicity is a plus for an underfunded army in an isolated, remote location like the Powder River country of the 1860's-1880's.
In your opinion What gun should the U.S. Army adopted in 1866-1873?
@@jamess7576 personally, I'd go with the Henry, it proved itself far superior to the Springfield, quite litterly in battle native American warriors with Henry's beat the Americans armed with Springfields, in fact the Henry's supirorrity over the Springfield is attributed as a major factor to Sitting Bulls victory over Custered
I LOVE the Martini action. They are way tougher than most of what was around at that time. I am currently restoring a Martini Cadet that was converted by BSA to 22 long rifle. Deadly accurate especially for a rifle that was converted 75yrs ago. Gunsmiths like these old Martini actions because they can be made into huge cartridges and are able to survive high pressure loads. Probably why there are so many of them around still from the Boer war. I have a trapdoor too but they are not nearly as robust. Hot loads are a no go. Still its a Custer gun.
My first firearm was a Martini action .22lr made to look like a saddle gun. I've been a fan of that action ever since.
Martini Henry every day every time
Hickok you must be using Tennessee math today. $200/20=5????
In east Tn 200/20 is 10 it has something to do with the time zone I'm sure
@@wolfmanrebel874 He's going to laugh when he realizes...Surprised John didn't pick it up! Maybe they are just living too close to the border.
I think it's a Tennessee inflation thing
Great stuff, thanks!
Love it, and you never ramble too much...
This is given' me an itch to ambush some redcoats.
*Yeah i remember the British American war of 1888 too*
7:48 LOL! Imagine like 4 people shooting that at the same time.
If you miss your target, you can always hide within the smoke.
Really interesting and well explained.
Thank you for reading my mind.
I was about to look for a trapdoor review.