How to Install Pool Coping w/ Mortar Bed Prep - Ultimate Pool Guy - 2019
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- čas přidán 15. 04. 2019
- Learn the basics of setting pool coping and preparing your mortar bed with Mike as he walks you through a job
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Ultimate Pool Guy 2019
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Great,you are the best.Great explanation
thanks for taking the time to check us out brother!...and glad to hear that you enjoyed the video...thanks for subscribing!!
Thank you Sir. Your experience and professional advice is greatly appreciated. I did wall and roof copings in previous life 20 yrs ago, but never touched or owned a pool. Mine was closed 16 yrs when I bought the house in the north east. Lots of work ahead. Thanks again for taking the time to do these videos.. Brian
right on brother thank you for writing in...best of luck with your project...and I am happy to hear our video work connected with you!
hay Mike good to see you back on the job site, keep up the good work
thanks for checking in brother!...yeah we have some interesting content that we are going to try to roll out this year
Stay Safe out there!
Awsome video brother very helpful im about tondo my first coping job tomorrow and it definitely made me more secure about what i knew about coping ! I had an idea but u just reassured me that i had the right idea in mind lol thanks a lot keep up the good work and god bless you !
right on brother...good luck and God Bless you...take your time and set each piece perfect...you wont have any troubles...write in if you have any questions!
Dude I love your videos. I've been working on gunite for right around 23 years. You know your trade for sure. You've got a lot of helpful tips that I use every day.
Thank you for writing in and for your encouragement
Stay real out there
🤜🤛
Good to see the pool vids back!!
Lol!
Yes we got to get back to the pool stuff for the upcoming swim season!
Thanks for checking us out and your ongoing support!
💥👍👍😎
Thanks mike!!! Really enjoy learning from your videos, very informative and personal work you are doing
right on brother thank you for writing in and for the great comment
I am really happy to hear that our video work is connecting with you
stay real out there!!
Could you possibly do a video on how to do proper estimates for large jobs
@@matthewthompson4665 hey brother i do get asked that alot and i have not done a video on that yet
but if you have specific questions on this topic or need immediate input you can email me
i can provide a good email address if needed
hope this helps
Thanks for the knowledge. Great detail of explanation. You guys are true experts.
right on brother thank you for writing in and for your comments
stay real out there!!
Excellent tutorial. Thanks for sharing your expertise. Especially the little nuances.
no problem thank you for writing in
Mike thank you for the knowledge and info much respect.
no problem
thank you for writing in
On the sneaky tip!! Sounds like los angles ... 100 lolz I love this chanell 100%
Good videos bro! 🤙🏽
thanks for checking in brother!...glad you like the work
Great job!!! Very descriptive :)
thanks for checking in!!
we did Easter eggs yesterday and kk wanted to do one for you!
Impressive video. You do a good job because you care and you pay attention to detail. Please don't push yourself too hard. People will take what you will give them and that can destroy a good person. Thank you for this and for your reply to my question on another of your videos
hello
thank you for writing in and for your comments
my father always used to tell me to not push so hard
there are answers in the push and there are answers in no push
and yes you are right empowering others can be dangerous cause you could be giving power to your enemies
my path on You Tube has had a life of its own and has tempered me as a person...I've grown and I am not the same
stay spiritual
stay real
@@UltimatePoolGuy Sounds like you've got the balance right... Nice pools!
Excellent vid man thank you.
🤜🤛
I haven’t even started the video yet as soon as I heard that intro I hit subscribe lol
Awesome video. Waiting and waiting for late tile/rock/Hot tube coping guy. After video we did it ourselves. Coming out 👍. Thank you
Nice one brother
Thank you for writing in
✅
You’re very knowledgeable man 👊🏼 that’s why I’m subbing. I need to replaster my pool and they quoted 13k and it’s not even pebble finish 100sq ft
sounds good brother thank you for writing and subbing in
Thanks for the great video. What kind of thunder mix you would use? Any specific brand you recommend?
ive never headr of "thunder mix"
we like
sack concrete
spec mix
rapid set products
plastic cement and sand
masons glue in all mixes
Love the video. Right to the point. Question I have is the use of thinset on top... is that something you feel is a good technique in all coping installs? Even cold climates? I’m in Chicago.
Back buttering the pcs with this set
I Only see this as being a benefit and the reason we do it is to mathematically increase the bond strength of what would otherwise be regular mortar
What I tell people that message in from different regions is to perhaps try a sample area And see if you are happy
however I cannot see this being an ongoing issue through different climates
Nice work
thanks for checking in brother!...we are going to be producing all summer so check back soon!
Stay real!
Awesome video Mike
Thank you 🤜🤛
Mike
Thanks for the video. We are getting a pool and getting now mixed reviews about our contractor. This video was very informative. It helps me to know what to expect. Do you have other videos?
yes
you can click on the UltimatePoolGuy icon anywhere on the You Tube platform and it will take you to the Ultimate Pool Guy You Tube channel homepage where you can see all of our video work
thank you for writing in
Hey man love your vids bro. Just pure sickness
Thank you brother
🤜🤛
Hey bro , whats your thoughts on a cantilever pool deck? From my knowledge pools have a separation between the coping and decking because the pool moves, expands and contracts differently from the decking. Thats why we have the expansion joint between coping and decking ( deck-o-seal ). But with the cantilever style its decking and coping combined. So although aesthetically pleasing but not recommended? am i on the right track? Please correct where wrong.
Cantilever pool decking is regarded as an older style and older design
The expansion joint for a cantilever pool deck will be at the top of the tile line underneath the decking at the pool side
This type of construction was done more commonly in older constructions we don't see it too much anymore in brand new construction these days it also lends itself to a lot of expansion and contraction on top of the pool shell and tiles popping off and ending up inside the pool and the water
Great video, thanks. What are your recommendations for setting paver coping on a new polymer panel in ground pool with aluminum liner track/coping edge? Just set directly in the mortar (ie “thicker” thinset? Thanks.
Hello and thank you for writing din it sounds like you live in a bit of a different region where vinyl liner pools are popular and widely used
As long as all of the products are cement and it is all masonry the installation should be the same or very similar
Cement products bonding to plastic and cement products bonding to final will be an issue
"Vinyl"
Hi Mike, very helpful video, any differences to be aware of when installing 6' long coping? I'm installing bluestone coping around a pool. Should the mortar bed be thicker given the weight? Thanks!
I've never heard of coping pieces installed that are this long but you don't have to make any adjustments to the mortar bed make sure you use high quality building products such as rapid set products
Lmk if you have any more questions
Coping pieces are going to be supported by your level form boards as well so you should have no problems working your way all the way around the pool follow your level from the previous piece
@@UltimatePoolGuy Mike, my contractor is installing 2 ft wide coping around the pool followed by bluestone. They recommended pinning the coping to the pool wall and installing an expansion joint between the coping and bluestone. Make sense?
How long should I wait to pour concrete next to newly laid coping? there will be a expansion foam paper between the two of course
24 hours or 48 hours should be fine if the coping installation was done correctly your expansion joint should be a half inch to 3/4 inch
Great Video! Thank you. We are replacing 200' of coping on an old pool. We have demo'd the old coping and the mortar bed from the top of the pool wall. The old mortar bed varies in thickness. We plan on leaving enough thickness for the spec mix and thinset. I have a couple questions...1. Is it ok to use a fast setting mortar with bonding agent to build up and level the bond beam surface? 2. do you wet set the coping with a spec mix and thin set both wet? 3. What specific products do you recommend. The team has set pavers, concrete, tile, and stone in the past, but the pool environment is new to us and we want to insure that we get proper adhesion. Thanks again! and thanks for sharing your knowledge!
hello sir thank you for writing in
1. yes clean up your mortar bed...get rid of all loose material and then get yourself going again with some "RAPD SET" product...mortar or cement all you can use some masons glue here or your "bonding agent"
2.yes once you are happy with your base and your form boards are leveled up throw down and spread some spec mix and a dab of thin set on the bottom of your coping piece and start to move
3.rapid set products are good to use around the pool area and set up quick ...name brand spec mix is good...you can also use plastic cement and silica sand in place of spec mix
the secret is in your prep work here take your time clean up your areas and this will make for a good install
best of luck to you ...feel free to write back if you need more
this is another video we have on the channel with coping installation
this one is on 4K resolution and has some different information in it that may help you
czcams.com/video/z4EE7xde8dI/video.html
Hi Mike, can I repair coping and tile while leaving water in the pool?
I have done some tile replacement over the years, but I need to replace coping now also. I live in Michigan and the winters are tough on pools. Thank you
Yes you should be able to reduce the water in the pool by 6 or 8 in or something like that and work everything from the topside with your tile repairs you may have to work upside down but that shouldn't be a problem
👍
Hey Mike, do the form boards stay , or get stripped when done ? How do you guys determine custom angles for mitre cuts
once the coping pcs are set the form boards are stripped away then grout and tile the face - waterline of the pool - if desired / 6 inch
coping-
mock up ur pcs
use an angle finder - similar to bathroom tile kitchen etc.
dry fit everything before wet application
try to keep overhang to pool side consistent - some overhang to the rear (bond beam) is usually no problem
Thank you brother.
🤜🤛
Hi!! Your videos are amazing! How much should the bullnose protrude from the pool wall?
What you are asking about is called overhang
1 and 1/2 to 2 in is normal
But it can be whatever you want for example coping could be flush with the pool wall if you wanted
Commercial pools have a raised lip at the front of their coping for people to grab onto
Your overhang will also affect your rear proportions at the back of the coping what is going to butt up against your decking material if there is any
Lastly
We used to deal only with 12-in wide copings like clay fired brick but now we deal with coping that are up to 16 in wide with poor in place concrete
Just things to keep in mind ☝️
So with the wider 16-in copings we have more flexibility in design choices overhangs rear proportions stuff like that
But as a general rule an inch and a half to two inches is fine
You can also ask your contractor that's installing your materials what they recommend for your region
And you could even dry fit a couple pieces and see what's going to suit your taste best
Hope this helps
Best of luck with your project
I see you are using VersaBond for coping installation. What thinset would you use to install the tile at the water level just below the coping? TIA
Pro lite
Non sag
Available at home Depot now
Or versabond products are also ok
Rapid set products for repairs around tile line are also widely used
Also available at home Depot
When you put your form boards on why the wood stake? I do use a Ramset and I use euca board or Masonite and usually blow out a lot of spots on the wall. Does this stake idea help because you have 2 ways to anchor the board? Where do you get your boards?
Form boards like these can be purchased at landscape supply or local building supply yard
Powder actuator fastener is 1 way to mount the boards
The method shown in this video is a little different the wood stakes are mounted with hammer and nail
Appreciate the video . Do you use spec mix in between your grout line? Ive been told to use poly sand but think it wouldn’t work with a cantilevered edge . Any suggestions would be appreciated . Thanks
Hello
Thank you for writing in
Yes spec mix can be used as grout
Also plastic cement and sand
Or sanded grout
Rapid set products
There are no rules
I guess one reason for sanded polymer grout would be color choice
A lot of those other options I previously mentioned art cementation has products and would be natural gray in finishing color
Thanks for getting back to me. I appreciate the advice . You do great work .
thank you for saying that
best of luck to you
Great video! I have seen that some builders slope their coping towards outside the pool to prevent water to get in but I have noticed that you keep it flat.. Is there any reason why you keep the bullnose flat? Im guessing you did slope the deck 1/4" per foot
on this job we did not do the deck work...some of the things you are asking about are also dictated by regional building codes...oftentimes coping is tilted up at an angle like that on commercial pools to accommodate local building codes for commercial pool construction there are also drainage requirements for deck drains for both commercial and residential construction to become familiar with depending on where you live and where you are working
Any advice on over paving and cutting inside edge in situ after glue has set? It’s a curved pool and I want the inside and outside perfectly curved to follow pool shape.
yes you can do that...you can also pre measure your angles and try to get close tolerances prior to installation...similar to a pre cast situation/pre cast material
Great job but what product do you use to fill the cracks between the stone coping. From the picture it looks like mortar is it?
Sanded grout
Plastic cement
Spec mix
Can all be used
Great vid, replacing old safety coping with that tapering back. Any precast coping selection tips?. I know about the 1/2" thinset spacing but just wondering what your tips are for not breaking the bank on getting a solid product in. Thanks~
Where are you located
Menifee. I usually shop riverside SCP/NPT down to Temecula
I have a few places I can recommend for your precast...if you still need help feel free to email me
Ultimatepoolguy@gmail.com
bellacrete
and
precision coping in valencia
are both good sources for coping material
Great video, thank you for the information. How much space should it be between the stones? Thanks.
About 1/2 to 5/8 inch grout joint
@@UltimatePoolGuy Thank you.
What material did you use to grout the joints? I'm in the northeast if that matters.
Sanded grout
Or
Plastic cement and sand
Both can work there
Great videos, thanks for the detailed explanations! What do you mean by spec mix? Thanks!
Spec mix""
Is a brand name of a company that manufactures mortars sold in 60 and 90 pound sacks available at most home improvement places such as home Depot and Lowe's
Rapid set" is another brand name that offers mortars and cement blends that are also commonly used around the swimming pool
@@UltimatePoolGuy Thanks for the reply! What kind of spec mix or rapid set do you recommend? It seems like there are a lot of options.
I believe for the spec mix there is only the blue and brown bag we use the blue bag and we also add Mason's glue to our Spec mix when we're mixing
For the rapid set products there is cement all the Masons mix and the concrete mix so it's going to be the blue bag that green bag and the red bag
Are the 3 rapid set products we use the most
Love the videos Mike! I’ve got a pool that needs new tile as well as coping. Built in 1972 and looks like hell. Newbie question as I’m considering doing the job myself. Does the mortar need to dry first before placing the coping stone w the thinset? OR does the mortar stay moist, then drop in the coping w the thinset slathered on?
Hello thank you for writing in I'm glad our work is connecting with you
Whatever repairs are made to the mortar bed let's say you have big chunks that were taken out and removed during the demolition process these repairs should be made and your mortar bed should be leveled out all of this work should be dried first prior to installation
However once you begin installation I'm usually working with two buckets or one bucket and a wheelbarrow one bucket has my spec mix and we are laying that in and I have another small bucket with some thinset mix the mortar bed goes down I will throw a dollop or two of thin-set on the bottom of my coping piece put it together and level it out and take myself around the pool one piece at a time in this way as the mortar bed and thinset dries it develops a bond between the top of the pool shell and your coping pieces whether it be brick stone travertine or what not
I hope that answers your question
Adding a little thin set to the situation increases bond strength
The drying of the cementatous products is what generates the bond👍
at 3.33 in the video I am giving some discussion from the top side of the pool ...here you can see that we have come through and made some repairs to the mortar bed/bond beam - leveled it out - this is now dry...we are now ready to start setting our coping pieces with spec mix and thin set
@@UltimatePoolGuy Do you have a favorite brand spec mix? All I have found locally is type s mortar mixes. Is this the same thing? Thanks again!
Yes type s mortar is what you are looking for I believe spec mix is the brand name at the end of the video I do a dolly shot and you can see a lot of the material be used if you pause at the correct frame you should be able to see exactly the product we were using should be available from Home Depot Lowe's or any building material supply it's a very common product hope this helps if you are a skilled Mason you can also use plastic cement and silica sand
Awesome!
Which brand do you recommend from Lowes Or Home Depot To Use For The Mortar Bed?
Spec mix with Masons glue
Or
Sand and plastic cement is also good and commonly used
Nice videos ! Had a question on if the top of the bond beam was crumbling . After clearing all the loose rubble off and forming up . What type of concrete would you poor to repair the bond beam? And would you use a bonding agent ? Thanks !
Yes bonding agent
Masons glue is good
If you can you should chip out whatever is damaged dowel in some fresh re bar where applicable and form it up if you can
and simply build it backup with a 5500 psi sack concrete is fine finished with a wood towel
This sets you up for laying in your Coping on the top
Great ! Thank you for the feedback . I’ll probably be mixing it by hand so wasn’t sure if regular high strength concrete bags would suffice . Thanks again !
no problem good luck
Thanks, Mike. So helpful. What did you use as grout in the joints between the stones? I have old bullnose coping that I used Specmix only on and I'm getting cracks between the stone and Specmix that I used for grout.
Hello
You can also use plastic cement and silica sand works well
🤜🤛
@@UltimatePoolGuy If I used bonding solution with my Specmix would I have avoided the cracks?
And since the cracks are hairline how to fix them?
Hairline cracks are not always indicative of a bad job
What kind of adhesive that I'm going to put during the installation of coping stone?
Rapid set products
Spec mix
Plastic cement with sand
Are all good choices that should be readily available for you
I was curious about tile layout what do you do if you end up with a odd short piece say 7” at the end?
You can cut this material using a diamond blade on an angle grinder or cut off saw
Tile and coping pieces can be trimmed to fit for your job
Great Video's- I have a section of Copin that has come loose what should I use to re-secure back down.
Spec mix
Or
Rapid set products
Cement all or mortar all
Are good
Sadly my entire pool coping is loose and grout is trash. I’m going to try to do one side of the pool at a time.
Do you recommend I scar the base and grind the stone base clean then butter both bed & stone with thinset?
Thanks for the video. Could you use bondcoat for your mortar bed?
hello thank you for writing in
I am always open to other ideas and ways of doing things
bond kote is listed as a 2 part resin designed for plaster adhesion
considering the relatively low cost of spec mix or plastic cement and sand...for this one I would say we should probably stick with traditional mortar bed material...and use bond kote for what it was specifically designed for
hope this helps
unless there was another reason for us to consider that outside of cost
Much thanks from Canada for sharing your expertise, Mike! You have a new subscriber, your content is excellent! I wanted to ask you a couple questions. What method would you use to remove stuck on mortar from the bottom of coping stones? Second, what type of grout do you use for the grout line where the top of the pool tiles meet the coping stones? Cheers
Hello
You want to make sure you don't damage your coping pieces when you're trying to clean them up
You can use a small hammer and chisel
Or
An angle grinder with a diamond cup wheel or even a small abrasive wheel would be enough to clean up the bottom of coping stones
Sanded grout for filling your joints
If the top joint between the tile and the coping is your expansion
Meaning there won't be one on the top (cantilever decking) ... then you use silicone
Otherwise sanded grout is the material to use (available at home Depot)
This is all for concrete structure pools 👍
Hope this helps
@@UltimatePoolGuy Thanks again for all of your feedback - very much appreciated
Hi Mike. Great video! It really showed me what things are going to look like with getting my old pool redone. At least for now, just the tiles because that’s all I can afford and it is very expensive. My question is this, why does my coping have to be replaced as well? It’s the tiles that really need replacing but do they all work together as a unit and that’s why the coping must be replaced as well? I’m only asking because the coping looks fine. Thanks for your attention!
Coping
And
Tile
Are seperate structures
There are occasions with some very old pools and it is common to see... Bond beam damage and that affects both coping and tile
It would also be common to see some cracking in the tile line or in the coping areas or both where something like this has occurred
And on these occasions we have to also make some Bond beam repairs which requires pulling the coping Back some along with the tile
However waterline tile can be pulled back and reinstalled separate from pool coping
Areas that have Bond beam damage can be treated differently
Transparency in construction is sometimes difficult it is sort of like auto mechanics people assume that homeowners do not know the difference
It is 100% possible for you to order up tile removal with installation and that's it
Even if maintaining the original plaster surface
UltimatePoolGuy Hmmm... I got two estimates and they both insist on replacing the coping. One estimate was with the guy not even looking at the pool. I do feel like I’m being taken advantage of. I guess I want to keep shopping companies. Thanks again Mike!
Good luck
Thanks for writing in
Hey Mike, thanks for all of your great content. I want to try and clarify something with you regarding order of operations on your coping job... Once your pool beam has been cleaned up
and prepped... do you then lay your mortar bed and let this cure, then once cured put the new coping stones with the thin set applied to the bottom of each stone?...Or are you laying your mortar bed and then setting the stones right away with thin set applied to the bottom of each stone?
I really appreciate your time
You want to make a pass where you clean and repair your bond beam
But once you are all formed up and ready to go then it's all one process you throw your mud back butter your thinset and go
Everything is floated momentarily
And you have some working time
But should set up hard
You should use some Masons glue in your spec mix as well
Awesome video! What do you recommend for those who can’t afford a pool remodel and yet need to reset their coping & grout
It's something you can get done on your own
You do need materials from building supply yard or home Depot or something like that
You can start with small sample areas to come up with a routine that you're happy with and final results that look good and then you can use that same method all the way around your pool
Hope this helps
@@UltimatePoolGuy I'm pumped and Thank you for the words of encouragement. I'm going to try it in 10 block sections. I plan on grinding the base/surface area of the underside of the coping and scarring the pool deck. Mentally I'm stuck with do I use thin-set or a "glue" slash bonding compound? Thankfully, even if I screw it up. It'll look better than it does now.
Do you have a yelp or google profile where I can leave you a 5 star review?
You can use a spec mix blend that has Mason's glue in it and then dollops of thinset on the backside of each piece I sort of outlined this method in the video it's very effective and you end up with a high Bond strength
Yes sir you can search ultimate pool guy on Google and there's a listing where you can leave a review thank you very much 🤜🤛
Great video! How about doing one on how to cut pavers around a skimmer?
Nice one
Thank you for writing in
Ill keep that in mind
And coping over a skimmer plate!
Few questions. Watched a few times.
1. Will 13 x 48 x 2" coping pavers "mush" down farther into the mudbed due to double weight? Each stone weighs 112 lbs.
2. How light on the thinset? Wet into wet Spec mix?
3. How to best match Spec Mix & Thinset? I used Laticrete 254 on my waterline tile.
Thank you!
you have a form board in the front with a good level and its set into the wall of the pool supporting your work
so yes , everything goes in wet and sets up hard (dry)
112 pounds each is not extraordinary
start with one sample piece if necessary
play with the consistency of the mud till you find a happy medium of working strength and "wetness" that is going to work for your job
once you get going you should be fine
Do you start in a corner ??? Shoukd it be symmetrical on a rectangular pool?
yes start in a corner and finish in the same corner , you sound like you have a good handle on it, forget perfect symmetry and start laying pieces
What material do you recommend for the mortar used between the coping stones?
We like
Plastic cement with number 30 silica is very good
Also
Regular sanded grout from your local home Depot or Lowe's
The sanded grout option opens you up to different colors that would be available
If you are doing the work yourself you can create little sample areas to see what material or what color you will be happy with if you're unsure
Hope this helps and happy holidays ⛄
Do you let the Spec Mix mortar bed dry before back buttering and installing the coping tile with the thinset mortar?
No sir
For that portion everything happens at once
So I hv a background in Tile of about 30 years. My bro has a Paver background of about 15 years. I’ll try to keep this short but at the moment I am trying to figure out a better way to grout and clean our concrete paver coping and a remodel situation. Number one do you have any ideas as to what to put underneath the area being grouted to catch the excess grout instead of it going into the pool? Number two I do not like the haze it leaves on the concrete pavers so I’m also wondering if you have any suggestions for that, keeping in mind that they are paver guys and are not tile guys therefore they are somewhat messy. I have tried using a grout release to make it easier to clean off of the coping and that worked OK at best. Next I wanted to try to actually seal the coping with a sealer to see if that helps. What do you guys use to float inside a remodel pool while you grout so that you do not make a giant mess in the pool? Thank you so much!
Grout haze issues
Try light acid wash
Sponge down
Light acid on a sponge
Etc...
Inside of pool
Try to mask off / tape off
Or make a mess and clean up later
Good luck
I know how to get it off once it’s on but I’m trying to avoid getting it all over in the first place. Do you guys deal with pools w water still in them?
Use a 20ft piece of siding and concrete screws much easier to form
thanks brother!
Hello hope you read this. I need some advice. I'm having a new pool built. Today they poored the coping. Pored in place. So when I got home from work and go to check out the coping and notice it has lots of cracks already. This is only just a few hours of installation. I notified my contractor. My question to you is what is the correct way to repair this. Concrete does have color in it. Does it have to be demoed and redone. Need your expert advice
Usually with this we like to see a really nice installation with no cracking and a nice finish
Ultimatepoolguy@gmail.com
Feel free to email any pictures you may have
czcams.com/video/lCdpxFHIAUY/video.html
something like this
Just bought a house with brick used as the top lip on the pool. Can it just be ripped out and replaced? Or do I have to rip the whole pool apart also?
No
You can R/R
Remove and reinstall just the coping
Hello. Is it ok to build up the pool by adding about 3" of mortar between the concrete and coping? Thanks.
the portion of the pool that you are referring to is the bond beam , you can so this but should use sack concrete and rebar then start laying your materials on top of that so you are making an extension of the bond beam that is equal in strength to the original construction
hi could you help a concrete block pool pool rebar through the blocks cement filled.rectabgle shape .best way to attatch the bullnose to the concrete block.also could you tell me what to use mix and ratio thanks
ok you can treat your concrete blocks similar to a concrete wall with your coping ...you will need to lay a base and set each piece similar to a concrete structure pool...you can purchase sack concrete from your local building supply or home depot and that will already be pre mixed and then you can just add water to that to get your "mud"...hope this helps
thank you for writing in !
@@UltimatePoolGuy another person has suggested using a slurry of white cement and bedding the bullnose .dop you think this method is ok as well or should we use soft sand and cement.Thankyou for your last reply
Yes I don't see a problem with this
You can always do 1 or 2 and see if you are happy with the results first before continuing
Thin set is good to throw in also
hi mike great video thanks can you please tell me where you buy your copping supply thanks again im also in los angles.
Central valley builders supply on Reseda and sepulveda
Jacobi on Canoga
Bourget brothers
Arroyo building supply in sylmar
For handmade stuff you can check out Jesus from precision from the pool guy reality show on my channel
This is pretty complete ☝️
Bellacrete also for handmade stuff
@@UltimatePoolGuy mike thank you very much .
Any tips for what type of form board to use when only replacing the coping (ie, not draining the pool or replastering) since I can’t nail anything below the waterline?
Sure thing I'm do not know how skilled of a Tradesman you are however if you are careful when removing the old material you can prep your mortar bed and it is possible to go about A coping installation with no form boards at all use a shallow mortar bed I like to throw some thinset into the mix to increase bond strength and just level yourself as you go around using bubble levels and Mason line
You have to be a little more thorough and professional this way however I have done this many times myself and seen it done many times this way
Think about guys when they are building a block wall there is no form boards for each chord of block or brick they have a bubble level and Mason's line and they just start ripping away same idea with the coping idea for your project
hope this helps best of luck feel free to write in if you need any more information
now that I think about it you will have to keep a shallow mortar bed so that the grout line at the top of your tile looks natural...so you shouldn't have too much issue setting your pieces this way 1/2 in mortar bed max or thinner...even spread your mud with a notch trowel...kinda like flooring
best
UltimatePoolGuy yea, the grout line was what I thought might be tricky. Sounds like it’s not much different than tile floors. Just got to be careful to keep the mortar near near the water line. I assume I can tool it after the tile is down to fix any cosmetic issues?
yes...take water and sponge and clean yourself as you move...the previous coping piece will help you set the next one...2ft. and 4 ft. bubble level...you should be solid!
be meticulous about your demo and prep...this will make the install easier
@@UltimatePoolGuy Thank you. That's a very helpful tip for repairing a section of demo'd coping, like I am doing. Any other tips or suggestions?
popping on a sneaky tip. haha
thank you for writing in brother
yeah this information is on the D/L.....its low key....sneaky
shhhhhhhhhhhhhh...................
do you grout or sand the coping? Also how do you cut the corners? What would you do if you had a double wall for the pool/spa and coping isn't long enough to cover the bond beam?
Yes always grout coping peices
Move the pcs forward till the overhang in the front is correct
And cover the back with your decking or pavers or something and make sure to include an expansion joint at that location
And use some sort of deck joint compound such as deck o seal
@@UltimatePoolGuy thank you for the reply and useful advice!
Ok
Mike I'd like to get classes from you on pools I do remodling out in Coachella I'm trying to learn the trade.. what would you charge???
Im down to help you however I can
You can email me here
Ultimatepoolguy@gmail.com
Hi Mike, My concrete pool lifted 6 inches from the deep end June 2017 as a result left a slop. Mike I need expert advice. Would you cut the top of the pool to make it even with the shallow end OR would you build up the top with concrete?
Either way I’m going to be installing a concrete coping and finish off the rest of the yard with a concrete stamped patio.
Pool company says to cut and the concrete people said to build it up. Not sure what to do!
Where can I send you a picture. Thanks Joe
these are all great questions...I would have to say we need to address the void under the pool structure...if we cut the top of the pool to make it even with the world we still have a weak and compromised structure underneath and we must consider the outward pressure of the water once the pool is filled...
pictures can be sent here
ultimatepoolguy@gmail.com
Ill look out for your materials
best regards
Thanks Mike for the quick response. I emailed the picture of the lifted pool.
hello sir,
I received your photo I am going to run this past a couple of my foreman and try to get a collective opinion for you
@@UltimatePoolGuy Awesome thanks! There has been no movement in the structure. It was build in 1971 by Valmar Pools. I'm getting conflicting information up here in Toronto Canada.
hello sir
I replied to your email but was not sure if you got that
the consensus that we came to is to not cut into the bond beam of your pool and to rather build up the low side to level things out...cutting into the bond beam compromises the integrity of the re-bar structure
When installing bullnose brick coping on a very curvy pool there are gaps between the bricks that are greater than 1/2 in. Is it appropriate to use Thinset grout since the product says it’s for gaps up to 1/2 inch? If Thinset is not appropriate, what is recommended grout?
I do not recommend using products for anything other than what they are specified for so let's use thin set to set any type of material like coping or tile
If you need to fill a gap like this you can look into a rapid set product there is also spec mix or plastic cement with silica sand would all work out great
And if you are skilled enough or you would like to hire somebody you can mitre cut these bricks for a tighter installation
Thank you for writing in🤘
@@UltimatePoolGuy Thank you!
Why the thin set on thee coping stones. Would you do that with a natural coping material like bluestone?
The thinset helps to add bond strength
Yes applicable to natural stone👍👍
Hope this helps 💥
Thanks. This may be a dumb question, but why no I honest on the concrete side of the mortar?
not sure if I followed you on that one brother??
How much does it cost to do a job such as the one you were showing on the video
8-12k depending on location and materials
How much the spacing between the coping stone?
usually 1/2 inch grout line approx
czcams.com/video/z4EE7xde8dI/video.html
check out this video also
How much is the length of nosing of the coping stone?
czcams.com/video/z4EE7xde8dI/video.html
this is another video on coping installation that also may help you out
Hey Mike. “ Tocayo.” I’m sure you know what that means. If not ask your “maestro” lol. Mike,you obviously do major construction work. Love you vids & especially how you detail your explanations. I simply wish to to a border re-tile of pool. It’s old, cracked in several places & falling off in other places. It is a 6 in border around the pool & the tile surrounds the jacuzzi. Can you please advise specifically what kind of thinset & WHERE can I purchase it along with what kind of grout & WHERE to get the grout? Also, do you have video of a tiling job like I’m doing so I can learn & get tips? Thanks & keep up the good work. From El Paso, Texas.
Versabond products from home Depot will work
You can get Mason's glue and add it to your thinset so you get a higher bond strength
You can find or search for local building supply yards next to your location and also go there and see what they have to offer in the way of thinset and grout
Sanded grout is what you are looking for
There are two videos on the CZcams channel covering swimming pool tile installation you can check out also hope this helps
@@UltimatePoolGuy Thank you for a prompt reply. One additional thing if you don’t mind, is that Versabond w the added mason’s glue waterproof. I assume all those items must be water proof. Or are they waterproof on their own already?
These products should already be good for wet location
You can always stop by your local building supply see what they have in the way of materials and ask for perhaps some recommendations for the area you live
Hey Mike got a friend wants to take his existing brick from around the copin of the pool i don't know if I'm saying correctly his deck is papers and he wants to bring them to the edge of the pool
Yes you can do this
Be sure to leave room for an expansion joint and you should be fine
What would you recommend to bond the spec mix to existing concrete? We have concrete walls with fiberglass steps. Thanks for the video!!!
No problem brother!
There is a liquid bonding agent it is a concrete glue looks very similar to school glue in color and consistency
In the past we have poured small doses of this right into the mixing of the spec mix
There are also other acrylic admixtures available on the market to help increase bond strength however I am less familiar with these products
Hope this helps out!
@@UltimatePoolGuy THANK YOU!!!
no worries, best of luck with your project!
Can this coping method be used with a vinyl pool?
A vinyl pool will need/ have something different at the top that I'm not completely familiar with
For sealing and finishing the top
In the video it's a concrete structure pool and we are located in Los Angeles California
Hope this helps you out
Why the large(ish) grout gap on coping pavers?
grout gap should be 1/2 to 3/4
or 3/8 to 5/8
an 1/8 in shy of the previous measurements
rear gap is for the expansion joint for decking if there is going to be any
then filled with deck o seal
expansion joint sealant""
Would you be able to tell me how you set your string line? First time trying this and mentally I'm struggling to figure out how to make sure I'm setting my mortar bed at an equidistance up around the entire pool. Appreciate the vid brother! Thanks! - Mike
czcams.com/video/z4EE7xde8dI/video.html
there is this other video from the channel where i talk more about setting your form boards and leveling them out
you can use a "water level"
a laser level
or
measure tape and bubble levels to find your level and pass it around the pool
you can even mock up a few pieces and find your level that way and then shoot it around the pool
hope that this helps
Is mega poxy gel good for porcelain tiles for the pool?
Hello I'm not familiar with this product
U can always do a test area 1st to see if you are happy with it
We use sanded grout ot plastic cement with silica
www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk00XJjHxeisZG_ImeEe59as65gUbyg%3A1615646709026&source=hp&ei=9M9MYJTTO6KAtgWYrJyoBA&iflsig=AINFCbYAAAAAYEzeBaPlDdlW6ADrLrWAy2X4OAPj4Cuh&q=sanded+grout&oq=sanded+grout&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAOgQIIxAnOg4ILhCxAxDHARCjAhCRAjoFCAAQkQI6CAgAELEDEIMBOgsILhCxAxDHARCjAjoFCAAQsQM6BQguEJECOgQIABADOg0ILhCxAxDHARCjAhAKOgsILhCxAxDHARCvAToCCC46CAguELEDEJECOggILhDHARCvAToFCC4QsQM6CwguELEDEIMBEJMCOggIABCxAxDJAzoFCAAQkgM6CAguELEDEIMBUNEEWNkWYJgYaABwAHgAgAGQAYgBnQqSAQM1LjeYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwiUna-Bwa3vAhUigK0KHRgWB0UQ4dUDCAk&uact=5
did you pitch the mortar bed or did you pitch the coping as you set it or did you have the coping level? thx
hello thank you for writing in
tilting the coping in a residential application is optional to my knowledge and a requirement in commercial installations 10 degrees i think
so in this video it is a level installation to my knowledge
instagram.com/p/CKCCh5QBQPl/
this is instagram video in a pour in place application
What is the specific type of Specmix mortar you use for the coping stone installation?
You can use spec mix with Mason's glue
Also commonly used is plastic cement with number 30 silica also with Mason's glue
Which Specmix? They make a number of mortar types. My pool rennovator here in Florida plans on using a type M mortar bed nearly two inches thick to install a paver 1.2" thick. This will be a salt water pool. That mortar would deteriorate pretty quickly with almost constant exposure to water. @@UltimatePoolGuy
I see
The mortar bed used for coping isn't underwater continuously
Also we're out here in Los Angeles so I'm not completely sure and proficient on the building practices in Florida it's very possible your subject to different environmental conditions
I believe we use the blue bag of spec mix which is type S
Without undermining the work you're currently having done you can consult other local swimming pool builders or contractors that would be familiar with the common building practices in your region
The information I've given you so far is common for Los Angeles and this region and also common building practices 🙌 for this area
Hopefully this is helpful 👍
The height of the mortar bed will also dictate the height of your coping material which then dictates the elevation set for the rest of the surrounding landscape if that makes sense it's a topic I covered in the video
So the reason behind the very thick mortar bed in your case could be he's trying to match elevations
Or establish a certain elevation for your project
Yes, he is trying to match elevations. After watching a young guy they had doing demo work on the old finish slapping an inch thick layer of type M mortar onto the top of the shell, I asked him what he was doing. He told me the guys who were later going to lay the coping stones would use ANOTHER layer of that same mortar to set the stones. 3/4" thick mortar joint on top of another 3/4" thick mortar joint! At that point I called the mortar manufacturer and was told they absolutely would not recommend using their product. They suggested some kind of thinset. but I think the job should be done by pouring a layer of concrete with small aggregate on top of the existing shell, with a bonding agent first rolled onto the top of the shell. The masons could then use a modified thinset of some kind. I do understand the mortar would not be underwater, but every time the pool is in use that mortar is getting wet, not to mention the six months of rainy weather here in Florida during which water reaches it. I think I'll contact a couple of mortar and thinset tech support departments after the holidays. @@UltimatePoolGuy
Sounds good brother
I wish you the best of luck with your project
Thank you for writing in 🙏
You can also consult other local contractors to visit your project to get other opinions before your project progresses or completes💪
Help please.. can you share the liquid bonding that you use for the mortar bed for the tile? also only mortar can r should I add sand on it?Blessings for every one and thank you in advance
The liquid that is used is a
"Masons glue"
For tile there are several ad mixtures that can be used
You cam also get away with nothing
If you are asking about the grout yes sometimes we throw sand on top of the ground for texture and look
Not sure if I understood the 2nd question
UltimatePoolGuy ... omg gracias por the replay
UltimatePoolGuy sorry .. for the mortar bed.. do you use Portland only or add sand? I am so frustrated right now.. people should know that is a lot of work into redoing the pool.. thank you
Can you show actually putting the mud and thinset onto the coping? I am trying to see how to actually put the thin set and the mortar on
Yes brother
There is another video on the channel about coping and mortar and we cover different information such as that
Thanks for writing in
czcams.com/video/z4EE7xde8dI/video.html
try this one
what do you use for the grout , do you just use the same mortar? do you make yoour own?
Plastic cement and #30 sand
Regular sanded grout
Spec mix
All these can be used for a grout material
@@UltimatePoolGuy any down falls to using mortar and then applying a waterproof coating to it? .... i heard it may crack (but i'll put in lime) ...thank by the way!
You can always try a sample area b4 doing everything to see whats going on with things
@@UltimatePoolGuy ya samples are awesome, not just at costco!
@@ksmooth7667 word up brother i heard that!
Hi just want to know if you have to tear out the old plaster in order to redo it, or was there a reason for you to do it in this project?
For most pools you can replace just the top part if that's what you're looking for which is the coping you can even use a diamond blade and cut underneath the tile and replace just the top portion of the pool which would be the waterline tile and the coping
For this particular project we were hired to do the plaster the waterline tile some plumbing work and the coping so the coping was part of the scope of work
Hope this helps you out
OK thank you! But I guess what I’m not understanding is if you’re going to replaster your pool, do you have to chip out all the old plaster? Like you did here or can you go over old plaster?
We are Los angeles-based so for this region. Full chip Out for swimming pool plaster is common
For other areas and regions in the United States that use Bond coat and put plaster on top of plaster
So my recommendation is to figure out what region you live in and do what the most common building practice is
For best results 👍
Awesome! 😅 your the best! Last concern what do you put in between the new tile and coping to seal it? My pool was built in 1979 so it has a hard plastic going around the pool that is set in the concrete coping. I’ve seen videos that they just use some type of caulking….
I think that you are making reference to the EXPANSION JOINT""...you can use deck o seal"" which is a 2 part epoxy to pour inside of that perticular joint...so you will be removing the old plastic stuff , cleaning the joint , preparing it with a bed of sand #30 and then mixing and pouring your deck o seal , this would be at the end of your job , this joint should be about 1/2-3/4 inch wide
Did you grout the joints or no
Yes these joints should be grouted with a sanded grout or plastic cement and sand
The rear joint going to your decking should have some kind of expansion joint
Excellent info...now I know why my coping didn't stick
Right on brother thank you very much for writing in
☀️👌🤙
I wish Michigan had great companies like this...
I need the trifecta, but since there are only like two companies, and one was on the news for neglect etc, it upsets me and drives up the price so much compared to the south. plaster is like the only surface anyone can do around here also. pebble would be great. I've done tile and grout before. how different is it compared to regular tile and grout? maybe I could save some money doing that myself.
You can probably get the pool ready for plaster your self
It's not easy but we can do it together
ultimatepoolguy@gmail.com
You can email me here
that's exactly what I was hoping for, and after watching the videos, with time on my side since I'm not a business lol, I feel like I have enough confidence to do just that. I told myself if I could just get it ready for plaster, I'd be ok with someone doing that. I absolutely don't want to, and if I could find someone who did pebble, it would offset the higher cost. my coworker does a lot of work for his dad's construction company, he's a stone mason and said he would help me, so that should make things easier. I really appreciate the reply and help. I'll definitely get into contact with you. thank you for all of the videos! you guys are great.
@@jeffcassar6036 ok
Do you apply the thinset between the bond beam and the mortar bed?
Yes
Smear on wall
Set tile
12-24 or so inch at a time
Whatever you feel comfortable with check and follow level as you go and start and stop at the skimmer mouth if possible so your work looks clean
sorry i though that this was for tile
yes to your question
and a fat dollop on the backside of each piece as you go
Love the video but I can't find anybody who showing how to grout around the front of those coping blocks there's gotta be some tricks
There is another video on the channel that covers coping installation and I think you can see some grouting there
Put a small piece of tape under the front joint .
If you don't mind me asking, how much do you charge for that service? I am in Vancouver BC Canada and have owned a landscape construction company for 26 years but we have never installed these before. It will be pretty straightforward for me to install but to price it out is a whole nother issue. And I mean for the labour, concrete framing/finishing around an existing pool and applying the coping. Not the actual coping itself as my customers have already purchased that. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
18-22 dollars a foot
Installed
You can also consult with other contractors in your area to see what others are doing
@@UltimatePoolGuy per square foot? Wow... even including forming, pouring and finishing the concrete for the base? Plus installing the coping? Seems cheap. We are installing on an older pool with a metal edging that is flexible like crazy. I am assuming that once we pour the concrete and kind of go underneath it it will solidify the metal surface.
This is Los Angeles California and we do pools in linear footage you need to familiarize yourself with what's going on in your region with swimming pools and do what is the common practice for your region
So the price I gave you is for installation only per linear foot
You would add a materials cost on top of that
On 100 linear foot pool for flagstone coping were installing that for $60 per linear foot something like that so 100 linear foot pool you're charging 6,500 for flagstone coping
@@UltimatePoolGuy so are you including the product in that price? If so what would it be without the Stone? Thanks!
What if your coping is wider than your bond beam? Do I just widing it extra mortar? If so how thick?
One way to deal with that is to figure out how much over hang you want hanging over the edge of the pool
And keep that the same throughout
I am definitely going to add some overhang. What if after the overhang is still not enough in some areas?
A pool shell thicknesses is approximately 8 to 10" throughout across the bond beam
You can figure out your overhang and throw your mud on the bond beam and this should be more than enough
I think what you are concerned about is the portion of material that will be hanging off the back end of the bond beam and that generally is not an issue
Unless you feel as though the bond beam is weak or has damaged or otherwise does not have enough mud or material to make a good installation
@@UltimatePoolGuy yes that is my concern. Some areas will have maybe an 1inch or 2 sitting on dirt even after the overhang. So i will add my half inch of mortar and lay on the dirt. Thank you so much for your help. I really do appreciated
💯
How many mortar bags for pool coping
4-5 bags of spec mix should get you around an average size pool
@@UltimatePoolGuy what about thinset
2 bags thinset
2 bags sanded grout
👍
"know wutta meng?!" @7:21
the weed makes me do it
Dude I can not find spec mix in my area.
Where are you located
Try Amazon
@@UltimatePoolGuy Santa Fe, New Mexico. There’s a place in Albuquerque New Mexico, it’s an hour away, However they do not have the spec mix I seen in your videos.
@@aalpha4086 www.google.com/search?q=santa+fe+new+mwxico+building+supply&sxsrf=AOaemvLWKD540O4nsCtEF4NoGvDlkIt39Q%3A1635072650997&source=hp&ei=ijp1YYu_Oci7tAbSlovYAQ&iflsig=ALs-wAMAAAAAYXVImsX0y7cG4WPtX2AYcuRpllDd9pga&ved=0ahUKEwiLrKqk8OLzAhXIHc0KHVLLAhsQ4dUDCAk&uact=5&oq=santa+fe+new+mwxico+building+supply&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyCgghEBYQChAdEB46CwguEIAEELEDEJMCOgUIABCABDoLCAAQgAQQsQMQgwE6CAgAEIAEEMkDOgUILhCABDoKCC4QsQMQChCTAjoECAAQCjoKCAAQsQMQgwEQCjoHCAAQyQMQCjoECAAQDToGCAAQDRAeOggIABAIEA0QHjoLCAAQyQMQCBANEB5QSljZTGDoaGgAcAB4AoAB9BKIAZKHAZIBCzUtOS4zLjEuMy4xmAEAoAEB&sclient=gws-wiz
@@aalpha4086 here are the google search results for "building supply" in santa fe new mexico
these places should be able to help you out or get you going in the right direction
hope this helps