Fujifilm 200 and Kodak Gold, Testing If Theyâre Really The Same Film Stock!
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By the way yes Fuji C200 is just Kodak Gols. It has been the worst kept secret for years.
@@orestes1984 definitely not years. It only change early last year. So, no it hasn't been years. Maybe a little over a year at most.
I am dedicated to shooting B&W film so I praise Ilford for keeping their films in stock. Not many companies are!
Ilford deserve a hell of a lot of credit, and our support.
Iâve heard from several different sources that even within Fuji they have no idea what they are doing. I read somewhere that some of the original Fuji 200 actually had Kodak on the film and them some of the next batch had nothing at all on the film strip. If you look at prices from the late 1970âs and 80âs and factor on inflation the prices are pretty comparable. I know that is cold comfort when you are paying upwards of $15 a roll. Also Kodak is increasing production. They were only running one shift but now are are 24 7 on the film making lines. Kodak is also repairing and bringing back machines that havenât been used in years. They are also looking to make new film making machines. Of course Ilford is going strong with their BW films but if you want color film Kodak is the only game in town. There are rumors that several smaller respooled film companies are trying to make their own color film from scratch. With both Leica and now Pentax looking to making new film cameras I think film is far from dead
I really think film bros are secretly rich kids lol
I dont think, I know đ
It's not a secret it's fuckin expensive as a hobby
@@DylanHeywood10 sadly any hobby will have its fair share of expenses and with every hobby, each of the manufacturers will make products with the illusion youâre a pro or expert for buying it.
Nope, just people with terrible spending impulse control. Iâm so broke.
Yes
I work at Kodak--so maybe I can help:) I love how the internet has turned this into such a big "mystery"..lol. Yes, Kodak is making Fuji film under contract. Why? Costs and lack of labor. The labor shortage is even worse in Japan than in the US. Kodak right now needs to hire about 300 people in Rochester to meet film demand. Fuji in Japan would like to scale up too, but can't get workers (demographics are killing Japan) and manufacturing film in the US for the US market is cost effective. So Fuji only had two choices, contract manufacturing with Kodak or Ilford and only Kodak understands color and how to produce the Fuji emulsion recipe. This is common practice in all sorts of manufacturing.
This is so interesting and thanks for the insights. I think the only thing you said I don't understand is that Kodak know how to make Fuji emulsion so then why are they just rebadging Kodak Gold? I hadn't considered the labor shortage angle thanks for enlightening us.
I mean, to be fair why wouldnât it be a mystery when neither Kodak or Fuji are transparent about the products theyâre selling?
Kodak isnât making Fujifilm under contractâŠKodak is making Gold and putting it in a canister that says Fujifilm on it.
âOnly Kodak understands color and how to produce the Fuji emulsion recipeâ
If thatâs true why arenât you doing it?
@@LucyLumen you are right. I mispoke. It is simply repackaged. I used to manage colors for a plastics line at another company (where our competitor manufactured our product as private label). The contract manufacturer was the only company that could reliably reproduce our colors. That experience trickled inadvertently into my comment. Fuji always gets beat up when they discontinue or tweak a film stock. So why not just let Kodak do it--especially on their lowest tier value product?
personally, I am for it because it preserves jobs at my company. Kodak is hiring 300 more people because film demand is so high.
@@peteanddrake4242 because weâre losing a film people like and paying two different prices for the same product
I was listening to the recent episode of Matt Loves Cameras with guest Bellemy Hunt from Japan Camera Hunter. His insight again being more fluent in Japanese than the rest of us is, Fujifilm is cruising off of cold stock master rolls with current product lines (in my market of Canada is Velvia 100, Provia, Superia 200 and 400 along with Acros 100 II). Of that Superia 200 and Acros II are being coated by someone else, that being Kodak and Ilford Photo respectively. Fujifilm is a black box in terms of a company for those of us not fluent in Japanese and during the interview Bellemy noted traditional non Instax film wasn't even referenced in recent annual reports and the whole photo imaging division is tiny compared to cosmetics which is huge for Fujifilm.
The only ones that know whatâs going on at Fuji are Fuji. There isnât any insider knowledge from Bellamy there (he doesnât speak much Japanese anyway, but thatâs not the point)
The frozen stock thing has been said for years but thereâs no reason to freeze master rolls. No step in film manufacturing requires it.
The theory doesnât line up with current base densities of film/expiry dates seeing as people have been saying it for years now
Thanks for watching the interview Bill!
I started shooting Fuji min 1983 because I noticed Fuji film skewed to the cooler colors (blues and greens). Kodak skewed to the warmer side (yellow, tans, oranges). I live near Rochester, NY, home of Kodak. I've actually met a retired chemist who used to work on the color temperature of their film and he was impressed that I even paid attention to this. He confirmed my thoughts. In general, Fuji skews cooler rather than warmer. However, given the niche market for film these days, both companies will be making "middle of the road" color choices to sell to the masses. My point is, it is possible that Kodak and Fuji 200 are very similar because of market preferences. Subscribed!
If you check the box of Fuji color 200 it even says made in the USA đ€ But the story about this rebranding is mostly that Kodak is a weird company. You have Kodak Alaris that actually produces film and what's left of the original kodak that does the distribution film, and it's that Kodak that often just rebrands stuff like other film stocks and even phones (yes the Kodak ektar phoneđ€). About Fujifilm there are rumours that they are producing film again, at least for the Japanese markets. In Japan you can get new stocks of Fujifilm industrial 100 đ greetings from a filmlab employee in the Netherlands;) note there are now two European companies producing color film being adox and orwo film :)
We need Agfa back in Belgium and Germany. I would LOVE to see Agfa Ct Precisa 100 again. I used up most of my stock, I only have six rolls left. :(
@@weisserth Agfa CT presia 100 was produced by Fujifilm since 2005 , so yes it was another stock killed by Fuji đ
As a tape and film nerd, I miss agfa
More than 10.000 subscribers already. Congratulations Lucy!
I always believed in you from the beginning. I told you back than, that it is possible for you to make a living out of your photography. And now it seems you are on this path. Artistic and financially.
My comment back than when your channel started.
Hi Lucy. Your channel grows. From 149 to 159 subscribers since yesterday. 1.000 subscribers in reach soon. I do my best with my comments to impress the algorithm :-)
At the end of 2021 I guessed 8779 subscribers at the end of 2022.
Almost got it right.
Thank you so much! You have been such a wonderful support to the channel and really motivated me to keep going. Thank you đđ»
@@LucyLumen Austr(al)ia connections. đ„
I was told this was a temporary need from Fuji to have Kodak help fill the gap in production and shipping during the pandemic for the North American market.
It is only temporary, hopefully, but if it sells well and is more profitable, they will continue the contract with Kodak
Hey Patrick! Hmmmm interesting đ€ I hadnât heard this. I guess it makes sense as to why they are doing it. I hope itâs temporary as I love the real fuji c200 a lot!
Thanks for the info! Hope you are well. đïžđđ»ââïž
Havenât heard this either but hope so! Youâre saying if we like c200 we shouldnât buy it? đ
@@LucyLumen it's been a while since I've started to see again Fujicolor C200 here in Italy, and saw some pics from people in Germany and France and in every package the expiration date is about 2024/2025
To see if you got a rebranded gold or not you can just look at where it's made on the box! But definitely not discontinued for now
Is it the green and purple box?
@@peterdavison934 i don't remember the details on the box other than there's specifically written Fujicolor C200 (different from Rebranded Gold because it's only Fujicolor 200, without the C), as far as I can remember it is still the old design, basically the pre COVID one, probably in the US the packaging is a bit different because I saw that they also sell in tripacks, while I haven't seen them in Europe for now! Hope this is helpful
Pretty similar to the Acros re-release. Itâs made in the UK, so itâs defo being made by Ilford lol
Great video, Lucy. The issue of rebranding film stock needs far more attention. There are so many stocks that are priced differently but are well known for being the same stock and i think it's a real problem. Washi X, Santacolor and Elekta are a good example of the same stock with different prices. It really does feel like cheating the consumer sometimes.
I think Lomography is a good option. Like their Lomo 800.. it is quite good.
Unfortunately Lomo is pretty expensive here in Australia
I found film is cheaper and easier to come by in winter, so now Iâve stocked up on it for summer!
I havenât read all of the previous comments but I have heard that Fuji had problems with the supply chain in Asia and the Trump era tariffs in the US. It was said that they had contracted Kodak to make a version of their 200 for the US and other markets and that it was a very mildly tweaked Kodak Gold formula. I think that was the aim but the result is indistinguishable as you have seen. It is said that if the label says US then what you get is K Gold. It seems the manufacturing cost in the East along with supply chain and where the chemicals come from prompted this move.
I agree! as soon as I heard the rumors (and saw the made in USA box) I assumed that Kodak was just making a slightly tweaked version of Gold to stand in place for C200. Just becuase it's manufactured by Kodak doesn't necessarily mean it's the exact Gold formula, even though they do look indistinguishable at this point as noted^. Hopefully the supply chain issues will get better over time w/ post-covid.
As a shop that sells film, itâs really confusing! As a general rule to film newbies I let them know Kodak is usually richer and warmer toned, and Fuji is cooler green toned. I donât know what to say to customers anymore! Do I let them know Fuji is basically Kodak gold? Is the stock we have even the âKodak gold Fujiâ? And what about superior extra 400? Is that still what it says it is? Arghhh!
I understand their pull to instax as a big seller, but in our shop, we definitely sell more 35mm. Fujifilm is a very bizarre situation indeed.
Oh my god yes Kate! This is exactly how I feel with the whole what is what anymore??
Itâs really confusing and mixed. I love the original Fuji c200 and have a few rolls left which I will be using wisely! Hopefully thing become clearer throughout the year.
Interesting to hear the struggles of a shop selling film in terms of what to tell customers, especially newbies too. Thank you đđ» hope you and Matt are well. Xx
Fuji is currently contracted/ using Kodaks production from US because of a shortage during pandemic. There was another video that did a full comparison test with a graph that proved this. I canât remember who it was that made the video though. He tested Fuji (old) new Fuji (from USA) and a current Kodak gold.
Were the graphs the ones in the video at 5:44?
Thanks for doing that test. There never was any doubt though, based on those sensitivity curves you referred to as well and then the fact that both films are made in USA and the plastic containers they come in are the same. Only Kodak has a manufacturing facility in the US, so the Fujicolor film must be made by Kodak if it's made in USA. I have some of the older Fujicolor 200 stock in my fridge, also in the 3-packs. The older stock has slightly different packaging, it says "made in Japan", the film containers had different lids.
You can also do the smell test. The old emulsion smells slightly different from the new one.
Personally, I am glad that Kodak Gold is now available at scale that way. I just wish they made a 400 version of that. Fuji had a cheap 400 color film.
As for price, the Kodak made Fujicolor typically sells for USD30 for the 36x 3-pack at most places. My local camera store sells them at cost for USD17 a 3-pack for walk-in customers. You read that right. The retail margin on Fujicolor is a markup of USD13 per 3-pack.
I stocked up hundreds of rolls at USD17 per 3-pack.
I was reading the history of the Kodak consumer films and both Gold 200 and Ultra Max 400 split off from Kodacolor VR in the early 90s. That technically makes Ultra Max the equivalent to Gold in a 400 speed.
Loved the photos Lucy, great composition and colours and as always, amazing dev and scan by Ikigai! An important thing to note - the North America offering is "Fujicolor 200" (made in USA) whereas the original offering is "Fujicolor C200" (made in Japan). Small difference, but only the Made in Japan stock is called "C200".
Exactly. The same with Agfaphoto APX 100/400 (made by Harman) vs Agfa Agfapan APX100 (the original Leverkusen stuff)
And it wonât exist soonâŠ
NA market is now Gold
NZ and Aus is now Gold
Asia is mostly Gold as the last of the Japan made runs out
Europe is in the same boat (check foto impex, maco direct etcâŠ)
There are three boxes for ISO 200 Fujifilm
2 of them are Gold. The third is leftover stock in 2 or 3 packs. When itâs gone itâs gone
@@peterdavison934 oof that's a shame, didn't realise Australia / Asia market was also 'Made in USA' stock too now. Unthinkable a few years ago, but perhaps now we'll see the humble Made in Japan C200 become the next discontinued film stock to skyrocket in price...
The Kodak rebrand seemingly made it here to the Czech Republic, but it's labeled as Fujifilm 200. The box is also different, the 200 has a purple background and there's no rainbow stripe unlike on the Fujicolor C200 and Superia 400 boxes. It also seemed to be a very temporary thing, it was only here last summer. I bought one fully knowing it's a Kodak rebrand, surprisingly it was significantly cheaper than actual Kodak Gold.
Hmmmm. Interesting. I guess, that is, I may be misunderstanding something, but I guess, in certain countries outside of Japan, you can buy an ISO 200 film through the Fuji sales channel. Interesting. In Japan, what we can buy are ... FUJICOLOR 100 135-36EX (JPY1,300), 135 SP400X EC EU 36EX (JPY1,580), SUPERIA PREMIUM 400 135-36EX (JPY1,650), 135 VELVIA100 NP 36EX (JPY1,980), 135 PROVIA100F NP 36EX (JPY2,160), 135 Velvia 50 NP 36EX (JPY2,490)..... I guess, in certain countries outside of Japan, one has one more option, which is nice.
Lucy, thanks for that interesting video. So, everyone is rebranding Kodak meanwhile, even Fuji ⊠which is a little bit of a scandal for sure. But transparency ? There is no transparency in the world of film stocks. đ Think of Lomography as a brand. Where do their film stocks come from ? Or literally hundreds of small companies are rebranding modified Kodak motion picture film meanwhile ⊠or Kodak Aerial Film ( Santa Color, Luminar 100, etc. ). Itâs a common business model meanwhile. The interesting fact though is, that rebranded films are often cheaper than the original, which leaves doubts on Kodaks price policy for me.
It's good to know where to get Kodak Gold when it's sold out haha. But it's sad that Fuji is pulling out. The new Fuji CEO even commented on their whole camera department as their service to the people. Fuji is doing way more business in the medical field. But it's definitely a brand we can't afford to lose in the camera space, both digital and analog.
I think you are mixing up fujifilm with Olympus.
Thank you for such a wonderful comparison Lucy! as someone who also works in a film lab, it was really awesome to see such attention to detail. It's so disappointing though that C200 is essentially Gold. However the newest shipment of Fuji Superia 400 from our suppliers that my shop received does say made in Japan, so hopefully that is still "real" fuji :)
Thank you lovely Dorothy! Awesome I didnât know you worked in a lab đ§Ș yes I have some Fuji superia 400 on the way from ikigai and that is the real thingâŠIâm pretty sure anyway lol đ
Iâve been skeptical of the confusion around Fuji 200 and Fuji C200. Iâm firm in my belief that Fuji 200 in North America likely is repackaged Kodak Gold as C200 was discontinued in North America, from what I heard it had something to do with the American EPA, but Iâm convinced C200 is the same old C200 weâre used to, made in Japan and all.
Sad to see Fujifilm leave film photography with continuous terminating film production. This is opposite to the market trend with a lot of young new film photographers and the supply chain not possible to for-fill the demand. With Leica re-issue the M6, is I think prove that other companies expect the film photography to stay. And KODAK see there chances to become the sole supplier of color film, so Fuji (film name should be deleted) C200 deal is prove of their strategy to come there and ask any amount of money, because they can do. Hopefully a European Manufacturer get his color film ambition realized and could scale up the the production. In the mean time us film photographers should buy and use film to keep up the demand, and maybe Fiji(film) change their strategy âŠ!
Itâs no surprise that Kodak and Fuji work together. When Kodak was forced to stop selling instant film/cameras they just sent it over to Fuji which is still here today as instax.
1) Kodak gold and Fuji c200 are amateur film designed for a long shelf life. It would vary drastically from batch to batch. Pro film was more accurate and consistent. 2) twenty years ago, there was a big difference in the color of the fuji and Kodak film stock.
Yes Kodak has a monopoly on film production in North America, and yes Kodak is going to charge as much, it's the American way. With that said prices of raw materials has gone up world wide so there is that too. I'm just glad I ponied up before last years price hike so I have plenty in the freezer to last me for a couple of years, that and I've also been shooting more digital lately.
I can see no difference between these two films. Even in the highlights or shadows there is no telltale color cast.
Todays (1-27-23) price on B&H website is the same for both, $11.99 for a 36 exposure roll. Both are out of stock or course.
Hey Kodak, if you're going to make film for Fuji how about making some FP-100C for my Polaroid Auto 100 camera? Paying over $70 for an expired 10-pack of this sucks walnuts!
If you see Fujicolor C200 itâs Fujicolor C200! Fuji never sold Gold as C200. It only sold it as Fujifilm 200. I think C200 was maybe sold as Fujifilm 200 in North America before they sold Gold under that name.
I mean this has all has been gone over, a year ago. And it was never in the question in the first place since the film curves are the same. That is how people got on to it in the fist place. The Naked Photographer made a video comparing the two even making his own spectral sensitivity curves showing how they were the same film.
Iâve headed from a couple of film retailers now that theyâve gotten the film back and itâs now branded as made in Japan again. And that even some have gotten film branded as Fuji C200 again. I have no idea if thatâs actually true though. But it could be possible that Fuji couldnât get some of the raw materials for C200 and Kodak bailed them out so that they can furfill standing orders. Huge chains like Walmart and Walgreens have deals to get film supplied by Fuji. And Kodak canât just make more Gold and sell it themselves. Because the bottle neck for Kodak has not been making the actual film. They can do tones of that just fine. Remember movies are still being shot on film. And a single 1000ft magazine of 35mm is about 200 36 exposure rolls in 135. And that gives you about 11 to 22 minutes recording time, depending on how many perforations youâre exposing. Imagine how much more film that is for an Oppenheimer, shot on 65mm, in a 15perf IMAX camera, where a 500ft mag last about two minutes. The bottle neck for Kodak is the canisters and getting the film in there. That is been why supply in the photography sector has been so bad and the movie industry has been getting film just fine. Most likely, Kodak made uncut master rolls of Gold for Fuji, which they have then cut to 35mm and spooled themselves.
From all I can see Fuji still coats at least some films. Their three slide films, the Japan exclusive Fujicolor 100, and the absolutely amazing Fuji Superia 400, which is sold as X-Tra in the west and as Premium in Japan. I am somewhat regularly able to buy Superia 400 in Germany for a very decent price. Especially considering itâs probably the most flexible C41 film out there. And if you want vibrant reds, Superia 400 has extended red sensitivity to make Japanese skin tones look âlively and beautifulâ. Fujiâs words, not mine.
The rumor that Fuji only sells film out the deep freezer is so far completely uncorroborated and makes little sense to me. Considering how much film they are still selling and how large the warehouse would need to be. It would be less expensive to just make film than to power such a giant freezer.
100% the JCH led rumour of a giant film freezer isnât true.
Kodak film sales have been going up roughly 20% a year for the past six years. Thatâs a good thing for film enthusiasts. Kodak has said it needs to increase production, okay, thatâs a given, but they chose to fund that by dramatically increasing the cost of a roll of film instead of the traditional method of using a commercial lender to raise the capital necessary to do this. They feel they can do this on the backs of their customers because they are the only game in town. Where else are we going to go?
I hope some company rises up to challenge Kodak. I would love to see Fujifilm truly be back in the game. I donât like being at the mercy of one supplier for anything.
Itâs hard to argue Kodakâs current âsuccessâ is from diligence. More luck. I hope a well run company like adox gets established as competitors.
If you're into black and white film, Kentmere PAN 100/ 400 is super cheap and looks great.
The colors in your video are a huge flex
Just discovered your channel. Thanks for this interesting video. I'm also very excited to see an Exact Varel IIa sitting on your keyboard. And your beautiful collar bones of course ;)
To be fair, Fujifilm never lied to us to begin with. They never really claimed that Fuji 200 is the same as C200. Also C200 is NOT dead, Fujifilm still sent new batches of C200 to sellers that I know here in Indonesia, with the expiration date akin to a new film (I think it was 2024/2025).
Yes, C200 is now less common and more expensive (back then it was around 8 bucks here, now it's 13.3), but that doesn't mean the stock is now extinct. Also there's still Superia Premium 400 (not X-Tra) and Fujicolor 100, stocks that as far as I know are intended for domestic Japanese market (but somehow I still saw some of em being sold here). Fuji isn't really dead, but probably close to. Idk if they will make their resurgence anytime soon.
Got a link to the Indonesian stock?
@@peterdavison934 I tried to send a link directly here two times but apparently it got eaten up by CZcams. People usually sell film stocks on a local e-commerce platform called Tokopedia. One of the sellers who still sells fresh C200 is juraganalog, who always provide fresh film (unless clearly indicated) since he got it directly from Kodak and Fuji. A few months ago if I remember correctly, he got a fresh batch of C200s. It still haven't sold out so you can check it on his seller page.
Interesting! There seems to be two box designs for c200 at the moment and both are still gold from my understanding. Would be good to actually test it and check. Hope youâre right
@@peterdavison934 Yes there are two boxes now, but the one is Gold and the another one true C200 tho. The one that has "200" written horizontally with the usual Fuji style on the upper part of the canister is the true C200, while the other one is just Gold. Also the tube is different, C200's tube is all milky transparent just like the usual Fuji style, unlike 200's "Kodak style" that has gray cap.
Sadly now most sellers are not knowledgeable enough to differentiate one or the another, mostly shrugging it off as a "box rebrand" (not all sellers tho, juraganalog and those who are active in the community can actually differentiate).
Iâve just had a look on tokopediaâŠthere might be some left over stock but 90% of it is the new purple/green box and has Kodak gold inside
Great video... Thanks for all the effort you guys put in to it. My FOMO kicked in about 6 months ago when I didn't see any exp dates past 2024 on 2 of my favorite stocks (ACROS & PROVIA) been hording ever since. I just stopped ordering provia recently since the $ has gone over $20 US. Even buying services in Japan (Like BUYEE) are now reflecting the higher prices. I really hope it is just a gap in the manufacturing but... well, anyway I am good for a year or 2 on what I got in the freezer!
Thank you Anthony! Yes I know that feeling and sticking up eases it. Sounds like you have plenty but hopefully in the meantime film manufacturers sort their shit out!
Thatâs why I made sure to load up on some real Fuji C200 before the new delivery of these repackaged ones hit the shelves. Itâs sad really.
Accessories make it all so much more fab!!!
I have a love-hate relationship with Fuji đ While I find their slide film beautiful and that discontinued Provia 400 is a dream to shoot with, I absolutely don't like Pro 400H (discontinued as well) and their paper for making darkroom prints. But as far as paper goes there is nothing else to print on, I mean I've been waiting on Kodak paper for several months now đą Kodak Gold in 35mm is definitely one of my favorite films, its yellowness and warmth aligns with my aesthetic.
there are TONS of papers out there though, you dont just have to use kodak or fuji. lots of other brands out there for you to use.
@@orion7741 which ones? I canât seem to find any color paper for darkroom printing except Kodak and Fuji.
Such a shame, C200 is/was a great stock, doesn't go off in the heat and gives good results even when expired. Seems like with the surge in demand (Kodak were down to one shift not long ago now they're running 3 and still trying to keep up with orders) Fuji is pumping their limited resources into Instax, which must be the profit driver for Fuji at the moment. So sad if C200 is gone for good. Never been a fan of Superia 400 but C200 is great and I'm still reeling from the loss of Pro400h. But I 100% bet this is Instax gobbling up available materials/production capacity and offering higher profit margins. Who knows, maybe it will be a net positive for 35mm users as Instax is the gateway drug to 35 and helps keep film alive and eventually grow the market?
I used to shoot many different Fujifilm stocks. I understand that is not likely at all but I would hope that the increased price levels of film would make it profitable for Fujifilm to restart the production of Astia, Provia 400X, Pro 160NS, Pro 400H, Superia 800 and 1600. All in both 35mm and 120 format.
The best lie ever would be if they actually lied about the discontinuation...
I
Who knows what Fuji will do depends on where the money is and currently that is instax. I think the more interesting question is with film price increases what happens to sales volumes in 2023. The rise of the digicam craze directly eats film sales (we are talking colour, I think B&W is fairly static). Is 2023 going to be the year film starts itâs decline again?
It's honestly so hard for anyone to predict especially when everything else is getting so expensive as well!
This has been interesting to see and a valuable experiment. I do feel that it is disingenuous to sell the film by the same name as a previous stock as that actively misleads consumers. If they sold the film as completely different stock, then not owning up to its Kodak origins is not such a big deal, but doing it this way is bound to ruin some shots for some people.
how did you like shooting the F501`? I had had this camera for maybe 6 or 8 years, the longest time I ever owned a single camera! Okay, nothing special, but it simply delivered. And I didn't have to worry about batteries, because nearly everywhere you can get the AA type.
I absolutely loved shooting with this camera actually. I didnât go over it in the video because I wanted to stay on topic. Itâs a strange camera like somewhere between a more automatic later Nikon but then still feels a bit like an older one. I really liked it! Thanks for watching lovely
I'm not sure what was going on but my Fuji 200 was looking very green last summer, even after all the speculation about it being gold. Not sure if the scanning settings at the lab were doing funny things but I never was sure that they were the same. Even to my eye, fuji looks a touch more green and gold looks a little more gold side by side, but they are almost exactly the same. Funny how that works. Since Fuji has been very available here and Kodak Gold has been perpetually out of stock or insanely marked up, guess I'll keep buying fuji 200....
Power of marketing! Theyâre the same
Actually, if you try to print Kodak Gold with settings for the old Fuji 200 to a RA-4 paper, it will look very green. I guess same is true with scanning. Kodak negatives tend to be a bit more to the magenta side than Fuji - especially Ektar, but consumer films like too. Portra less so. More magenta in film will mean green in prints or scans.
What kind of DX-code the American-made Fuji 200 has? I donÂŽt mean the part the camera uses for adjusting the speed and latitude, but the barcode, and a 6 number code for the photofinisher. Codes for Fuji begin with 2, and Kodak films with 1. If it is actually Kodak Gold, but coded as Fuji, the machines will go wrong with color balance.
This bro don't film no-mo.... đ
Yes I knowâŠI feel like lots of people canât afford it right now. Get on those digicams I say. Hopefully film comes down to a more reasonable price soon đïžđ€đ»
I only shot a roll and did a CZcams clip on this film a few months ago. USA made Fuji.
the community is also missing that basically all labs or minilabs are using not only fuji chemicals but also nearly exclusively fuji fotopaper as kodak also stooped production of that part years ago
and that the fuji / fujifilm corporations are a huge conglomerate of businesses dwarfing the current kodak company. in this business concentration the analog film is nowadays mainly an little offspring compared to medical, professional printing, industrial robots and machinery or optical systems they produce
finally i would see this dual marketing of one/the same filmstock still as a positive event, because FujiFilm is securing their marketshare for the future, meaning the have interest in continuing, and its providing a steady income to a rebuilding kodak, making it less dependand to the continued use of Hollywood as major consumer of analogue film. In the olden days there were lots of rebranded films and maybe one of the current colorfilm resurrections like adox, orwo and possible future others this way can get a chance to produce for uji in fuji and this way stabilize a hazardous merketposition dominated from kodak
and most less informed consumers, will choose by price to maybe buy a second roll of fuji, before they buy a more expensive roll of the same kodak stock
I like Kodak Gold 200.
Allowing for inflation, the cost of film is similar to what it was in the 1970s and 1980s. Before that, it was even more expensive. Few people could afford colour film in the 1960s. In real terms, the original prices of film cameras when new were similar to or more expensive than equivalent-level digital cameras now.
PerdĂłn, pero para ser justa la comparaciĂłn debĂa ser tomada con EL MISMO LENTE,cada unidad -lente renderiza los colores de forma diferente, aunque sea una pequeña diferencia se nota mucho...saludos
What we might be seeing is that with the global supply chain problems, companies are concentrating on high profit, low volume items, such as cameras instead of film.
Yeah this is definitely a high likely good. In times like these companies will do what they can to make as much money as they can and focusing on film might be to cost heavy with not enough return. Great point! Thanks for watching
Here in europe the kodak gold 200 is sold out, some lonely rolls to find and no one knows when kodak does more. interesting to see that we here can buy fujifilm, lots of them, but the name is fuji 200, not fuji c200....is this the same or a different film? here we have this days bad weather, so i can`t go out making pics...a roll fuji200 135 36 cost 11,99 ⏠. Here photographers talk about new kodak prices, up to 40% more. some of us are buying lots of film the last months, where the price was ok. i think bought nearly 400 films ( colour) 135 and 120 mixed, sounds crazy and is crazy. My fridge is full for 4-5 years. i hope kodak does it right, finding people as employees and makes film for a good price. the only one good thing is, maybe analogue cameras will be cheaper, when people thinking less people buys expensive film.
Too many rumors, internet source reliance , and very kittle substantial facts keep this thing about Fuji alive.
That's why I made this video so we had some actual evidence to go off. Thanks for watching.
Fuji has not abandoned film photography! It is the biggest producer of RA-4 papers and color chemistry for photofinishers. Without them, color negative films would be for scanning only. No more C-types even for digital images. WhoÂŽs gonna buy a fancy digital camera, and be happy with crappy "dry minilab" inkjet prints? Or pay 20$ for ink only? Oh, I forgot, for kids, analog means posting scanned pictures in Instagram...
It is more like photographersÂŽ hearsay that Fuji will stop making film, which has been around for at least 10 years now. The real problem is China. It is from China they get their supplies for making film in Japan. China has been a big problem for them for many years, and closures due to coronavirus have made the situation even worse. Japanese politeness makes it impossible to say this directly, as their Chinese partners would lose their faces if confronted directly. All they do, are very general apologies for the situation. Fuji operations in Europe (paper and chemistry) are working with only actual problem being the increased demand for their products, as Kodak paper and chemistry have been practically unavailable for almost three years for now in the European market. There is no sign of Fuji withdrawing from this market. People at Fujifilm are not stupid, and it is impossible not to realize there is a great demand for their films, should they be able to make it.
I just gave up on color film entirely, too expensive. Now brands pull these stunts thinking people will just buy and not notice, I'm not coming back anytime soon. I'm happy with BW from Ilford, Foma and Adox.
Would actually be the first Fuji color negative I liked. Always hated the green and magenta look of Fujiâs own stocks. I do love the warm Kodak colors. Iâm just hoping Fuji doesnât discontinue Provia. Absolutely love that stuff.
I've noticed that all my Fuji Acros 100 II rolls are 'Made in UK'. As far as I know Fuji has no plant in GB but maybe another well known film manufacturer helped out here as well...?
Ilford makes it for them.
great video! thanks for sharing! slightly unrelated but i'm wondering if you could leave the still photos up a bit longer during the video. I think a few more seconds would allow us to appreciate them and even pause the video to see more details. Lots of love from MĂ©xico as always
I'm still PO'd that they stopped making Peel Apart stock: FP 100 / FP 3000. The 2nd half of their name "Film" is an empty suit.
My thoughts on this is that the film community unfortunately is a example of the ever growing narcissism, especially online. Where people express alot of opinions and bad information on things that they dont actually know. As great as tech is with all of its wonderful opportunities for all of us. Its also platforming people to speak on things that dont know about triggering other people to continue this cycle. Anyway, good day to you all!
Great comment totally worth posting
what the ell are You on about.
They do not brand it as C200 in Europe. One is Fujicolor 200 and the other is Fujicolor C200. They aren't trying to brand it as the same. I do miss c200 though.
Nauurrrrr I love Fuji C200 :(. Still cool that fuji is offering 200 at a very affordable price. Here fujifilm 200 is $7.11 a roll and gold is 13.99. đ
Wow thatâs cheap for Fuji!!! Get stocked up on that for sure. I prefer it to gold.
I seen a video on CZcams last week.... saying that Fuji pro 400 and protra 400 are the same?
So bummed! As of last week Fuji Xtra 400 is still $27 for a 3-pack at our local drugstore, so I really hope they keep making the Xtra 400!!! It's the only color film that's worth its sale price to me, anymore. But, the old Fuji C200 was a much better film if you have good light. Ugh! Gunna miss those green shadows!
instax does bring Fuji more money than color negative film -- why is this whole film shortage we all suffer from? - why does Kodak deliver film to Fuji when it could sell it's film under it's own name? - even Kodak Gold is rare, these days! - so many questions, I'm confused!
The whole shortage we have is exactly because Instax brings Fuji more money. Fuji didnât anticipate this current film boom so they shut down a lot of their film production throughout the decline of interest in film during the last decade and a half. They invested a lot in Instax because they anticipated this is whatever future remains of film. Thatâs why when reality came hitting all of us they were caught with their pants down.
Kodak is not raising the prices, Alaris is (the company that bought the rights to sell Kodak consumer film). They are tightly connected to a UK Pensions fund, and were at one point very much in debt. My assumption is that they are exploiting the renaissance of film to cover their debts.
I think the Fuji 200 thing was essentially temporary, however, I have to believe the freezer theory. First, too many people I trust believe in it, and second, they just only care about money. I think Fuji has fully abandoned film, but also think there's truth to just how much film they have cold stored. What I don't understand about it, however, is why they keep raising the prices on it if they aren't at the mercy of silver or other material markets, other than to collect extra money.
Raising prices simply because they can is standard business practice across all markets these days. People keep buying, so why not keep charging more.
you would not be in business if you did not care about money.
I've heard from a long time photographer and lab technician that he cannot get his hands on Fuji stocks anymore, at least not without paying through the nose for it. he thinks that Fuji want to focus on supplying the Japanese film market first since they've been struggling to do so for a while and when the global financial scene looks better, they will refocus their attention on supplying the western market. in the meantime it seems Fuji has contracted Kodak (the major Western supplier) to make "Fujifilm" for them in a faux way of keeping the western market stocked with Fujifilm.
could all be bull tho
The DX Code next to the perforation is also the same.. so no test needed ;D
@04:35 there ARE Differences in the colours, the blues are completely different. Might not seem too different but it's a big difference. Apart from that it's pretty much the same. You should try thi again but see if you can collab with a colourchecker or a shop that can supply the big one with like 400 colours. You could also create/ sell luts of these films that way too.
The differences in colour are only due to slight exposure changes and scanner initial interpretation.
They are the same film.
@@peterdavison934 Ah I see, just curious, how hard is it to get consistent results in colour while printing? Since to me the difference in blues is pretty huge.
@@DynastyUK for a test like this itâs difficult to get them exact but not difficult to tell theyâre the same film.
The cameras and lenses are the same but even when the settings are the same, differences in calibration (both cameras are older and not CLAâd) will cause density differences. With film, density affects colour a lot (notice colour changes when you under and over expose film)
Scanners also will scan the same strip slightly different each time depending on initial correction/calibration of the scanner.
The best way to test this is with a densitometer and colour charts but itâs not as interesting visually.
Iâm confident with these tests that theyâre the same film which is sad. Going to miss c200
@@DynastyUK also these arenât controlled tests. Even 20 seconds apart with slightly different metering can cause a change (sun going behind clouds or whatever it may be)
Others have covered this same issue and the graphs match up too. Wouldâve been good to have a third camera to show the original c200 at the same time!
@@peterdavison934 Thank you Peter! Great information here I appreciate it!
I really enjoyed your discussion.đ
Film was expensive in the past and the prices just catch up all the accumulated inflation in the recent years as companies realise there is a ton of people willing to pay the price.
Fuji is still a massive company in the chemical field but they just turn to a more profitable business like cosmetics and sadly they will no share the knowledge.
The rerelease of the M6 or the Pentax/Ricoh adventure to create new film cameras will make the market survive as best, but the price is not going down.
And about "new" Fuji being cheaper than Kodak... Balme Alaris, not Eastman.
Kodak missed the digital world after 2000. Now it seems Kodak sees a new chance in the analogue film world.
Fuji c200 is great filmâ„đđ
Kodak or Fuji, does it actually matter ?
I should think most of your viewers won't remember when the numbers of film stocks on the market outnumbered the average age of your viewers.
Don't forget that most of the current film stocks are actually badge marketed / rebranded film stocks .. ie: one emulsion / stock branded by multiple companys.
Nice music.
@smartereveryday did a tour of the Kodak facility recently and it became obvious that they were handling a lot of 3rd party orders for film making. It seems they are carrying the film industry on their backs. I love Fuji more, but Kodak is carrying the torch for them right now I think.
great video, very "Jess Hobbs" of you, to afix two cameras to oneself, for a film comparison!, but if you look into her site, she even mounted three at once!, at one stage, a record to beat!!
Fujifilm 200 is Kodak Gold. Why this is remains a mystery. Meanwhile Fujicolor 100, Superia X-tra 400, Superia Premium 400 Velvia and Provia are still being made in Japan and most of those are only available in Japan. Fuji has really been a major let down here in the United States. Places like dirt cheap film has imported some of the Japan only film stocks are are selling them for $20 a roll which seems high till you go look on eBay and find a single roll is selling for almost double that... INSANE!!!
Fujifilm needs to keep making film but as far as I can tell they are trying to get other companies such a as Kodak and Ilford to make their film while cashing in on the film resurgence. I am totally against this and will only buy film which is actual company. So Kodak film made by Kodak, Fujifilm made in Japan by Fuji. Ilford/Kentmere made by Ilford and so on. Otherwise how long before Kodak makes film for everyone?
Fuji is not the only company in the US who sells repackaged film. This already sounds sad, knowing what Fuji film emulsions were like not so long ago, but Fuji Film have chosen their path and that is digital. All manner of ridiculously named film stocks, particulrly in B&W, are now flooding the market at premium prices, only for research to show that they are almost universally produced by Foma or are just old stock brought out of deep freeze.
Fuji needs to have a plan to release frozen stock instead of using Kodak but I suspect no-one at the company cares.
Do you have many labs in Australia or not?
Tbh I've shot Fuji, Kodak & agfa in the "old" days; these don't look like those
I get that they look similar, I get that the tech info looks the same and I do believe that the new Fuji 200 us not the same as the old C200, and maybe the base for the film is the same base as Gold 200, BUT... I'm developing my own film and what I've noticed is that when pre washing the film, the water turn brown with Kodak films and Magenta with Fuji films. The Fuji 200 shows magenta in pre wash, so there is definitely something different from Gold 200.
Last year I bought fujifilm 200 knowing that it was kodak Gold and just bought it cus it was cheaper
Kodak have been shady since day 1, Eastman flat out copied Polaroid back in the day, and then offered a pay out to Polaroid when they sued.. at least thatâs my understanding đ
Kodak are just doing what theyâve always done, tried to control the entire market.
Lucy if you could drop either the Aussie accent or the valley girl inflection your channel would be one hundred percent more bearable.
Lol - no dramas! Iâll get straight onto a whole new accent just for you buddy.
@@LucyLumen Iâm subscribing for your content, your delivery and, of course, your awesome Aussie accent⊠as a Canadian living in Southern Arizona - visited Sydney in 2015⊠Beautiful people and sooor friendly.
Donât change a thing!
@@marknichols7861 thank you Mark! That is very kind of you. I actually had to google what a valley girl accent was and have had fun joking about it with my partner haha đ i am actually quite a sensitive person but YT has given me a pretty thick skin these days.
Nice to know you enjoy the content and yes Aussies are pretty chill nice people! Thank you xx
@@LucyLumen I just turned 61 and, unfortunately lost my wife a year ago to co vid - Iâve learned a thing or two over the years - being true to yourself attracts the people who will honestly appreciate you for you. Staying true allows you to grow into yourself and not bend to your detractors.
You are a beautiful person, with your own quirks and oddities, Iâm sure.
Youâre a great presenter and a likable sort.
Keep at it⊠you will do well. In the weeds of YT hosts, you do stand out in a positive way and I like your insight and perspective.
I have a Canon T5i, an Minolta X-700 and am dangerously close to pulling the trigger on a Nikon F3 HP. My mom, now passed, shot exclusively on Kodak slide film when we lived in Germany and Holland on her Leica 35mm (1960-1970âs).
@@marknichols7861 these are such wonderful and inspiring words to hear Mark. Thank you đđ»
I am also deeply sorry to hear about your wife passing - it sounds like you have a great attitude and outlook on life though. Arenât we all just one click away from buying yet another camera đž
Great to have you here and I hope you enjoy my analog adventures! X
don't look at it like someone who loves film you have to look at it from an economics perspective. Kodak and fuji are like any other corporate entity chasing profits. They want the max return for their resources. Take film and replace it with widget. You can plot the supply and demand curve of any widget and have a really good idea of why they made their corporate decisions. Kodak doesn't love film. They love the profits they make selling film.
Love the videos. Why would Kodak sell to Fuji. Makes no sense.
This was covered by The Naked Photographer 10 months ago. He came to the conclusion that North American Fuji C200 is Kodak Gold. Presumably rest of the world is still the original C200. The boxes are slightly different so you can tell which is which.
I remember someone explaining that shipping from Japan to the US was difficult due to the pandemic so Fuji contracted Kodak to sell Gold as C200 for the US market only. I personally had C200 on backorder about 8 months. I am very sad since C200 is my favorite film and now it is impossible to get non-kodak C200 in the US.
Sadly weâve seen this American made version hit every market slowly. The original c200 is gone
The situation in Europe is the same. The new Fuji its calles only 200 without the ''C'' and have the same price like Gold 200 + - few cents.
@@toshiyasumorita4569 You can buy Japanese Fuji 200 right now in Meijer stores (Ohio, Michigan, Indiana) I just bought a 3pack last week for $19. Made in Japan- fresh dated.
@@MarksPhoto 24 or 36 exposure?
Back in the day Kodak use to rebrand its film under different name. Itâs like Mercedes putting Hyundai parts in their cars.
I disagree that a good film processing company can improve your photography. It can only provide excellent technical quality for your mediocre, good or beautiful shots. To save money, I start with good âstandardâ scans. The few really good shots can always be rescanned later. Thanks for the video and my compliments for the method. I stopped buying anything from Fuji a few years ago. Not because of the quality, but because of the attitude and contempt of the company.
This Kodak monopoly is bad for my financial health.
Negative stocks are really what you make of them. Negatives don't really "look like" anything. Also Fuji Film is dead to me unless I am interested in shooting slides.
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This happened last year, and its the opposite, for a period of time some Kodak Gold was "replace" by Fuji stock
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I heard somewhere that Fuji produces or owns company that produces some of the components needed for color film, so that this trade with Kodak is tit for tat.
But your camera đ· Nikon not Fuji
Imho photographers should rely more on their own creativity and technical skills and less on the exact film stock
Photography is a visual medium, if you shoot color then palettes are part of the creative choice and a consideration that are part of the technical skills to know if such film stock requires a graduated filter, if it can look too grainy or not enough, etcetera.
@@ReinoldFZ guess they just need to adapt then
They should but a lot of them donât; I canât count how many basic ass pics that anyone with the same gear can take being praised when itâs not truly unique nor original nor creative.
Corporate greed. What are the odds lol
2022 called, it wants its news back. If you read a little more, you would have found that there is already new, made in Japan 200 iso colour negative film on the market from Fuji.
If Fuji wanted to exit the film business, why wouldn't the exit at once. Since no manufacturer deep freezes Jumbo rolls, they must have been coating film.
Just accept Japanese companies have a different culture and communicate in a different way. Just the fact that they put effort in finding a temporal replacement for C200 proves they want to keep in business.
By the way, other than chemicals, they are also the only one left on the RA4 business. They produce this paper in Japan and in the Netherlands.
And this is where exactly? Shoot me a link to any japan made Fuji 200 that doesnât predate this
@@peterdavison934 I think I read it on Photrio
It doesnât seem to exist. Happy to be proven wrong but both box designs have American made gold in them
@@peterdavison934 I bought made in Japan Fuji 200 in May of 2022, found it in rite aid, but at the same time the single roll of Fuji "200" I found in Target was the Kodak gold one. It seems both are out there when it trickles into stores
Soon it will be just the gold trickling in unfortunately