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264 Win Mag Ballistics and Performance
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- čas přidán 7. 11. 2022
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years, I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, become an integral part of our ecosystem, and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see and survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish, or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
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This caliber DOES deserve a second chance!!!!!!!😊
I just got a full custom in 264 win mag with a 1-8 twist barrel. It shoots 156 Berger’s at 3150 at sub 1/2” . I love it!
sounds like a real dandy rifle and hand load combination you have there dude!
@@hotramen5952 There a few guys like me on longrangehuntingforum that are shooting this combo and getting these same results. N570, Imr8133, Retumbo
I have 264 brass an i believe rcbs dies. Id sell them to you cheap
I built almost the Same thing. I love mine also, I use h 1000 powder, 😁
@@hotramen5952 A
I’ve been hunting with a Model 70 in 264 Win Mag for over 15 years and I’ve never been disappointed with its performance.
How many rounds does the barrel survive?
If you’re just hunting, I’m sure it will last more than a lifetime.
@@mattpeacock5208 barrel will go about 500 rounds for sub MOA at long range.
I also have the same rifle and it is great. My only issue is the cost of the ammunition now. It’s almost $100 per box anywhere I’ve found it. I also have a 7mm mag and a 300 win mag. They are less expensive to shoot so I use them a lot more.
The 6.5 Grendel is almost a ballistic twin for that almost mentioned 6.5 Jap. Great little cartridge, almost looks like a 30-30 necked down to 164.
I’ve owned a mod 70 / 264 for close to 50 years. Since then I’ve shot elk, moose, a truck load of whitetails and hundreds of small critters. I own 30+ other rifles including 7mm mag and none compare. I’ve shot thousands of rounds without doing any more damage to the barrel than normal. More than the ballistics and controversy of who’s better this gun is MINE ! Period…….I love it and it loves me like a fateful companion……I’ll never be without it😊
What bullets have you used and to what success? I got a damn accurate load worked up with 140gr SSTs
My Dad bought his first .264 in 1969 after researching all of the best for big game in the country. After truckloads of deer and quite a few groundhogs and 55 years it is still dead on fine. It seems like even back then the media affected the consumer negatively.
Yes, there was a stainless steel barrel pre 64 version. An interesting fact about the cartridge is that both, the B&C dall ram and typical mule deer world records were shot with a .264 Win Mag back in 1961 and 1972 respectively.
He mentioned that the 6.5x300wby was around in the ‘50s. One of those was Roy Weatherby’s personal favorite cartridge.
@@soonerfrac4611 The 6.5-300 wby mag was designed back in the 50s but wasn't introduced to the market along with rifles chambered for it until 2016. I understand that Roy Weatherby's favorite cartridge was the .257 Wby Mag, also mentioned in the video for comparison with the .264 win mag.
Probably splitting hairs really. One was developed but never put out there, the other was pushed commercially available. Personally I think the Win Mag & PRC are probably the best choices in the caliber, best balance of speed & recoil.
According to my second edition Sierra manual. Lt.Col. Paul Wright designed the 6.6 300 the first was built by Alex Hoyer a Pennsylvania gunsmith. It has been used in 1000 yard bench rest and had the record group for a time. And has also been used for long range hunting since the late 1960s.
Yes, I lived in Tucson and bought a Sako Finnbear in 1964. I know some of the deer shots in AZ could be several hundred yards at that time. The only flatter shooting (barely) cartridge at the time was the 220 Swift and its light bullet weights were marginal for deer at long distance. I’m not at all surprised that the records were made with the 264 Win Mag as there was nothing flatter shooting for large game at the time. I love that cartridge!
Everyone I know who has shot and hunted with the .264 Win Mag loves it. It is my go to hunting rifle, even when I set my mind on hunting with something else, the .264 still goes with me. I think its a cartridge you have use to really appreciate.
I feel the same why about my .270 Win. Even if I want to hunt with another cartridge, the old model 70 is coming to camp, and it often gets it’s way and I end up hunting with it.
I tend to agree with you with the exception minds of 65555 Swede in a sporty ride Mauser I was going to change the auto text on that but I kind of like it hey hey hey hey hey before I had to quit hunting due to health and I'm definitely just a deer hunter when I would reach into gun cabinet the only one that occasionally would get a nod would be my triple deuce Savage. But for the most part my old Mauser was like an old friend and always delivered
Way under rated caliber! I have had about every caliber over the 60 years I have been hunting, collecting and reloading and the 264 will do it all in the lower 48!
I have a .264 in the Model 70. All I can say is that I love it, love it, love it. Also, being a reloader, I could care less what the market does. I’ll make my own.
The .264 is just one of those calibers I always search for . Either rifles, vintage ammo or vintage magazine ads. I love the whole era this caliber came from. Maybe one day I’ll give in and buy one
Great video, i inherited my fathers .264 Win Mag, it's a beautiful machine and he left me with plenty of ammo too. He bought it in the late 80's/early 90's and we were in awe of it's power as a child. fast forward a few decades and I'm still in awe and can truly say this cartridge has stood the test of time. I love it even more after watching this video and reading the comments from other owners below.
Ron, I'm not sure if anyone has already stated this, but Winchester does still list the 264 as a current chambering on the new model 70's. Hopefully when gun store stock levels get back to normal, we will see some on the shelf.
This is true. 2020 found a model 70 in .264 WM at sportsman’s warehouse. It followed me home!
I bought a new Winchester model 70 extreme weather in 264 win mag a few years ago. I have only taken a couple of deer with it so far but it is a great shooting rifle. It's definitely one of my favorites that I own.
I’ve got the same version, what bullets are you running?
I’ve got a 264 win mag built on a Remington 700 action, timney trigger set a 2 pounds and a Wilson barrel with 1:8” ROT shooting 140gr Berger VLD hunting…love it and it shoots like a laser.
I love my pre 64 model 70 Featherweight in .264. Handed down from my father. I bought some factory 140 grain Remington Core-Lokt bullets from Midway years ago. They are a 2 diameter bullet..260 at the exposed surface and .264 where it's seated in the mouth.
Thanks Ron for showcasing my favorite caliber!
Ron, thank you for showing the ballistic comparison of the 264 win mag and the other 6.5’s out there. I love the older classic cartridges (25-06, 270, 30-06, 7mm rem mag, 300 win mag and the 264 win mag. I own and have hunted with all of them besides the 264. After watching your comparison my next rifle build will be a 264 win mag.
🕵️♂️ Before you do, better read the review that I just posted on this subject! 👨🏫 It may just change your mind! 😯
Make sure you get a proper throat (longer) than factory specs.
Thanks for reviewing the 264 I remember being memorized by the sleek round in Outdoor life back in the day when I was a kid.
@vettelover2009 I'm gonna wager that was an auto-correct.
Great story. Also shows how influential the writers are in cartridge survival. I believe that the 7 mm wsm suffered the same fate due to writings. Would be interesting to delve into comparison of the 7 mm cartridges. If you deem it interesting enough to do so.
I was hot for the WSM's until I realized the ammo was 50%+ more expensive and you only gained maybe 200 fps.
Do have a WSM today but it's in .17 rimfire. 😉
Would be a good subject mate cheers Yogi 👍
Biggest advantage for the layman shooting .264 Win Mag back in the day was Maximum Point Blank Range, since we didn’t have hunting scopes with modern reticles and target turrets. It was the cartridge to beat in that respect. With the right zero, it provided a really long MPBR for medium and heavy game, especially out here in the West. 7mm Mag definitely overtook it in popularity in the Mountain West region of the US, and is still very viable and popular today for LR hunting on elk.
Switched after 15 years from a 7mag when I picked up a 264 two years ago… I’ve never been happier.
Yeah baby, love this video and the 264, last time purchased that ammo it was $60 a box approx 10 yrs ago, currently my sizzle rifle is a 7mm STW.
Father's day received a box of STW ammo, wife said, ouch, five box of that ammo is equivalent to four new tires on the car.
As I digress, heard the 264 barrel burner hype back when, just don't target shoot with it. I smoked wood chuck at 500+ yds. Now it's collecting dust, might take it out for a spin.
Thanks for this video, love it.
Love my 264 win mag
Ruger M77 Hawkeye in 264 Win Mag was my first true rifle on my 16th birthday... 13 yrs ago. I love the thing. Ive dropped many deer and in 19' I had the privilege of dropping a 388' elk in NM with it. Its a tack driver and I love reloading it with the Hornady 143 ELDX bullet.
Last year I purchased a Winchester Model 70 Supergrade (fancy maple) and the first load I worked up was a 130 grain Nosler Accubond. I haven't checked velocity, but at near max charge the first five shot group was .5 inches at 100 yards. This rifle really shoots. I have several different 6.5 cartridges, but this one and the 6.5-300 WBY are by far my favorites.
I am quickly becoming a fan of the 264 win mag. I bought a 260 when they first came on the scene and have taken many whitetails with it. About 15 years ago I bought a 264 win mag but never really did much with it. I finally brought it out of the gun case and started shooting and playing with reloads for it. I have only taken one deer with it to this point but my range time has been very impressive.
love your videos, my granddad was a gunsmith and a farmer. i spent many hours watching him take apart and repair rifles mostly. he was subtle with his education. never biased. he liked ...220 swift but for wuffs.... he a 2nd generation german so coyotes were wuffs. you educate and i like that. thankyou
Winchester did use a two diameter bullet in the .264. Hornady made their bullets that way also.. That model 70 in.264 I owned was amazingly accurate. That was a great rifle which I wish I still owned. It packed a hell of a wallop and made a hell of a noise
I’ve been hunting with a pre-64 Model 70 Featherweight in .264 Win Mag since 1974. I lived in Alaska for many years and had great success with it on Dall sheep (2 at over 500 yards and 1 at 60 yards), big Alaska moose and caribou. After moving back to the Lower 48, I’ve taken many whitetails and mule deer and pronghorns. Everything has dropped in its tracks or within a few yards with one shot. I have other guns that I have taken big game with, but I always go back to my .264 as it always delivers.
I had a late 1979 Model 70 in 264, some days it'd shoot .75 moa and other days with same load 1.5 moa. I wanted to love this cartridge but sold it. The twist rate and cheaper manufacturing killed it. I still have a soft spot for the cartridge. 6.5 PRC with same ballistics, tighter twist, short action and tighter tolerances has killed it.
Thanks for a good history lesson!
Funny you are covering the 264. I called a couple stores today to see if anything available in 264
The 264 win mag is my #2 most favorite cartridge the 338 win mag is my favorite I wish I had a 264 in Winchester model 70 it is so beautiful
Thanks for covering the old 264 wm. The conundrum for me is to go 264, or 7mm. The 338, 3006, and 308 have been in my life for so long.
My brother bought one new in the early 1960's. Took over a dozen elk with it (Roosevelt and Rocky Mountain) and never lost a single one. Where you put the hole is more important than the size of the hole. My grand nephew has it now and it's still taking game.
Thank you Ron for this video and the discussion on the .264 WM. I've reloaded for both 7mm RM and 300 WM and never had a problem with cases separating, but did have some hot 7mm loads given to me by another hunter and several had the primers fall out when ejected. After 3 rounds pulled the rest apart and reloaded myself to safer levels. Have a good week Ron.
One of my buddies hunts with a Model 70 feather weight pre 64 in .270 over in Louisiana. His grandad hunted with it, his dad, his brother, now his nephew and so on. It might last 10 generations.👍 Thanks Ron!
Concerning your question about the idea of the "two diameter" bullet used in Winchester's factory ammunition. I have sitting in front of me, Speer's #8 manual for reloading ammunition. First printing 1970. Page 179 (description for 6.5mm Bullets) I'll quote just for your information... "When Winchester brought out the .264 Winchester Magnum, the ammunition was loaded with a "2-diameter" bullet. This reduced the diameter just ahead of the case mouth so the bullet did not engage the rifling when the round was chambered. The Speer 140 grain bullet was subsequently redesigned with a long tapered point which accomplished the same end." I'm sure Sierra wasn't perhaps aware of Speer's literature. Just a bit of info for the "statistician crowd".
I love the little 6.5 Grendel, I put together a lightweight 18" spr with full length rifle stock and a 3lb trigger, put a burris 2.5-10x scope on it. I'm getting just under 2500fps with 120 nosler ballistic tips and 120 hpbt barnes match burners. Very effective for deer and coyote in these Virginia mountains, it's just an absolute joy to carry and fun to shoot. It does everything I need and then some.
Missing the point.....
@@carfvallrightsreservedwith6649 Or maybe you are?
6.5 Grendel is a great mid size game cartridge at normal hunting distances.
@@carfvallrightsreservedwith6649 In the eastern US, 300 yards has traditionally been considered a long shot. I have friends who have hunted for over 30 years and never shot at an animal farther away. I remember when one bought a 7mm Rem Mag for the sole reason that "One day I might hunt out West". He eventually admitted that it made shooting much less enjoyable.
I’d like to see the obscure Lazzeroni cartridges covered. Ahead of their time and quickly killed off.
Yes they did first load 2 step bullets in initial loadings for the 264 win mag. Randy selby mentioned it on One of his videos and he is the most knowledgeable gun maker and ballistic expert out there right now. From what I remember he spoke on the bullets being seated way to far into the case taking up powder capacity. I trust his expertise more than anyone and encourage all to check him out on CZcams channel @The Real Gunsmith!
Yes I wish I knew this when I was in my late 20s but live and learn thanks
Any competent gunsmith can do what Randy does, without the lectures and rants!
Yes he can rant sometimes but I’ll have to say no one else is speaking the truth right now or 99% of the content producers. Ron’s always been great tho. But that being said he’s a writer and some of his work is on cartridges rifles ect. And I know he has to please his sponsors and it’s totally understandable. But if your a knowledgeable handloader you understand why I have made the claim for Randy’s content to be some of the very best out there. I just don’t like how most of the content creators are not being truthful on topics like cartridge capabilities, bullet design and most of all long range shooting in hunting. But I’ll say it again Ron is right in there too for the most part and yes without the rants. Just my humble opinion
@@nickcannon1558 Some love Randy’s passion, it isn’t BS. Have you tuned in to Gunblue?
I watch a lot of his videos, even though he does talk down to people a lot. "IRREGARDLESS" I do like some of his content. :)
Another item against the 264 Fqctory Ammo.. Round Nose vs Spitzer for the 7mmRem.
When I was a lad I got a mod 94 Winchester for my 11th birthday and and also got my hunting license and deer tags and actually took a nice buck not far from our business in Shaver Lake, CA. A couple years later my mom hooked up with an erstwhile husband who was a rather prolific bookie in the Antelope Valley of southern California. One day I came home from school and to my horror discovered my Mod 94 was missing from my bedroom gun rack. The step dad came home and sheepishly confessed that he had to borrow my rifle to cover some bad positions on a college football game and that he would replace it very soon.
One day he came home and handed me a nice gun case and said it was a potential replacement for my Winchester. Inside was a brand new Mod 70 Winchester in .264 Magnum. I told him I would have to try it before accepting as a replacement for my 30-30. We drove out to the desert and set up some beer cans for targets. The first shot I took was like being hit in the head with a frying pan. The second shot was like being hit by a Checker cab. Third shot was teeth clenched, eyes closed and not even looking down range at my targets. It was the most brutal experience I ever had. In my shooting career I have shot a lot of big bore rifles including 450 NE, 50BMG and some others so long ago I can't remember. Nothing was the equal of that .264 Magnum. Of course in the mid 1960s we didn't use hearing protection like now. I finally settled for a Marlin 336 which was not the equal of that Mod 94. He sweetened the deal a couple years later by giving me his 67 Hemi Charger. I couldn't afford to keep it in tires!
Thanks for the video. I bought a used model 700 Remington 264 mag in 1982. Had to replace the trigger. Gunsmith told me it was produced 1963 and half. Kind of a freak. 26" barrel with stainless steal insert. Custom timney trigger set 3.5 lbs. Tack driver. Dont use it much because expense of ammo.
About 15 to 18 years ago, I was able to hunt coues deer deep down in Sonora, Mexico. Outfitter said we have premium rifles at the ranch. When we arrived, ranch hand said there's a rifle in bunk house standing in corner behind door, I said to myself....ok....anyway, it happened to be an old, worked Remington 700 chambered in .264 Win Mag with a fixed 4X power old Bushnell scope. It had a SS barrel standard wood stock. Afternoon before hunt, I took a few shots at 75 yards or so. I'm glad I had a good pair of field glasses. Hunting those Grey ghosts was challenging but that old .264 did the job, beautiful flat shooting rifle. In the desert down there 300 or more yard shot is very common. My vote is yes!
I suppose in 2022, the only good reason to use .264 Win Mag is just to be different in a field of 6.5mm cartridges. And you can avoid .270 and 7mm mag at the same time.
I have had one for more than 50 years 😀
It would be interesting if a person could find which gun mag poo pooed the 264 Win Mag and what writer it was who killed the cartridge. My 1924 Swede Mauser shoots that .264 bullet extremely well. Thanks Ron, I've been waiting for this treatise for some time.
10 or 15 years ago it was common to read articles with titles like "The Curse of the 6.5mm". I wonder if it had something to do with the fact that the Japanese used a lot of 6.5mm against the Americans in WWII. In the 1960's and 1970's it was common to hear gunstore commandos poo-poo the pitiful "almost a .22" that the Japanese used. There was a pervasive belief that anything the Japanese made was junk. That really did not change until the mid 1970's IIRC when Japanese cars and electronics began to be seen as high quality.
Also, the US traditionally had the .25 cal, although it was generally seen as a deer-and-smaller-game cartridge.
@@jfess1911 Could be something like that. I am a child of the '50s and remember kids dads that were in the south Pacific and if you mentioned the Japanese they would tie into you something fierce. Not so with dads from the European theater. You might have something there.
@@ralphwatten2426 The 6.5 was also not helped by the fact that long, roundnose bullets made the 6.5 Carcano less effective than other rounds. It tended to pass straight through without yawing. I am not certain how well known that was by the general public, however. The Italian Military certainly knew it because the replacement 7.35x51 used a lighter spitzer bullet with aluminum in the tip (like the 303 British) to initiate yaw. Luckily for the Allies, the complete switch never occurred.
I’ve been looking forward to this video. I have many different 6.5s and have shot a lot of them since the 1980s. I still remember shooting my Boy Scout leader’s 6.5 Rem Mag and .264 Win Mag on a shooting trip we did, where we 4-wheeled into an aerial munitions impact area that was part of the Edwards AFB test ranges in the Mojave Desert. We shot truck axles, propane tanks, and other steel scrap targets left over from vehicles blown apart by aircraft (I have pics). It was a very memorable day, but I vividly remember the joy of those 6.5s, then forgetting about them for many years.
I got on the .260 Rem bandwagon in the 2000s and thoroughly enjoy the performance of that cartridge, especially with 130gr Berger VLDs. I have also shot a lot of 6.5x47 and 6.5 Creedmoor in short action rifles and AR-10s.
The cartridge I shoot the most of is 6.5 Grendel though, since you can get so much trigger time and it flies quite well, with easy-to-spot impacts on your own. If you use a 26-28” barrel 6.5 Grendel, you can really bite the heels of the 6.5CM with the same bullets. Contrary to what many asset, it shoots 129gr, 130gr, 136gr, 140gr, 142gr, and 144gr very well with the right powders.
What I have found is that with the exact same barrel lengths, say 22” between .260 Rem and 6.5 Grendel, I reach the Grendel’s muzzle velocity anywhere from 175-225yds with the .260 Rem, shooting the exact same projectiles. Both are supersonic to 1200yds for me at higher elevation in the Mountain West region with the high BC bullets, like the 130gr VLD.
For hunting with the 6.5 Grendel, terminal performance is excellent with the 129gr Nosler Accubond Long Range projectiles, as they expand down to 1300fps and have very high BCs. Grendel brass lasts for many loads as well, so I lean towards it when I hit the bench for producing range and practice ammo.
I had a Remington 700 BDL in 264 with a stainless barrel, I bought this rifle in 1968, all the elk I have killed except 1 was killed with this rifle. 2 nice 6 points, can't remember how many spikes and a number of cows. Sorry to say this rifle was stolen about 4 years ago. So my nephew built me a new one 2 years ago. This rifle is a nail driver. I love this caliber. 140 gr. for elk and 120 or 125 for muleys. I only hand load with Nosler partitions for hunting.
Wonderful video about an excellent and much underrated cartridge! The 264 Winchester magnum may not have quite lived up to the hype but it certainly did not deserve the bad wrap as a barrel burner. That was a interesting point that you brought up about the 257 Weatherby Magnum. If the 264 was a barrel burner then the 257 Weatherby was definitely much much worse but yet we never heard anyone drag it through the mud.
This is a little off subject but Alaska’s Statehood vote was done illegally. Military personnel and their dependents were allowed to vote in a state in which they did not reside and were prompted to do so by the Eisenhower administration.
Family has been Shooting the 264's since they came out... I personally own one of every model made and still hunt with them today. They are a handloaders dream and are NOT the barrel burner they were made out to be.
In my gun stores you can buy .264 win mag in Remington or nosler. Also I bought a box of ppu .264 from a shop in pocatello Idaho. Also I can still order a model 70 Winchester in the .264 win mag cartridge.
True on the factory stainless barrel. I own one, and love it. I have been lucky enough to have taken many mule deer with it, and it’s performance is pectacular. It loves H870 and the Sierra 140 gr Game King.
Thanks for the “deep dive” into the 264wm. It’s always been one of my favorite hunting rounds and maybe if more people get interested they will up factory loaded options. Keep up the good work.
This was great Ron.
It's a very interesting cartridge. As much as I might like to have one, I don't need another caliber to feed.
I'll build a 270-300 Winchester Magnum instead. I have plenty of 270 and 300 Winchester Magnum stuff, and with the new 270 bullets, it is going to be an excellent rifle.
Hello Ron thanks for the 264 notes in 2010 I was able to purchase a ruger m77 in 264 win mag it comes with a 24 in but I do like this gun a lot.
I had a .264 Win Mag Model 700 with Rudiger (yep) glass back in the '70's. I absolutely loved that thing!
I only gave it up because factory ammo and brass became cost prohibitive.
+1 on the cost of shooting it. I still have mine but don’t shoot it much because of what you said.
One of my favorite rounds of all time. Great video.
And a wealth of knowledge , love your vid’s Ron , I’ve learned so much from you .
Ron. I have a 8t Bartline 30 inches long barrel. I reload with 142 accubonds or 140 Berger vld hunting with rl26 and I get 3340. It shoots threw the same hole at 100. Really love my 264 win mag.
Thanks for another fun and informative outdoor post Ron, thanks for the fun videos and always teaching me new things. 💪🏽🎥💯👍
I found Ron's video quite informative, and I greatly appreciate the comparisons it offered. The 264 WinMag ballistics are impressive, and I can see why owners of a 264 WinMag really like it. It strikes me a cartridge ahead of its time. Jumping forward 50yr, Ron clearly points out that the .264/6.5mm caliper has only gained acceptance in recent years. Conventional thinking is hard to change and this is one of them. The .30 caliper has ruled for well over a century in the USA. In comparison, our European neighbors accepted the .264/6.5mm a long time ago. I first gained that insight around 2005 and purchased my first, a 260 Remington, in 2007. The 6.5 Creedmoor has its advantages; however I see no compelling reason to change since I am able to compensate some short-comings as a handloader. (Granted not everyone is able to handload.) Being a .264/6.5mm convert, I have taken the "road less traveled". My current "go to" is the 6.5-284 Norma that was standardized in 1999 by Norma with a compelling CIP spec (European comparable to SAAMI). My handloads compare favorably to what Ron shared for the 264 WinMag using the 143gr Hornady ELD-X. Even though the 6.5-284 Norma will never gain wide acceptance, I believe it is a compelling cartridge. I am content embracing it as an outlier.
In many ways, I consider the 264 WinMag story somewhat a tragedy as I do a number of other cartridges. Those that have languish offer a number of "marketing" lessons, such as: "#1 - Going against conventional wisdom and culture." "Being ahead of its time." "Technology has not caught up." "Creating a product before a perceived need." I ramble...
Really enjoy this kind of content Ron. Can you do an episode on all of the 7mm cartridges? Preferably the STW
Back in the early 90's I came across a Sweedish Mauser in 6.5x55 and I ordered some bulk bullets from Midway, in the blue bulk box's. They were 140 grain bore riders.
Doug Shilen Ennis Tx built me a 264 Win Mag and a 30-338 sister rifle. The 264 is still going strong with its 27” select stainless match barrel 142g Nosler LR MV3205 ME 3239 zeroed 200 yds -5.27” drop at 300 yds 1500 ft lbs energy remaining at 700 yds. Fabulous round also have a full Borden build in 257 Weatherby and previously a Rigby in 6.5 x 68S very similar in ballistics to the 264
Where the .264 Win Mag has a great point blank range which is where a majority of Big Game is bagged. What’s not to like a Nosler 130gr AB at 3208 FPS. What’s not to like in a Deer Antelope and Caribou cartridge but one of the best ballistics out there.
Well Ron I’m about done as well at 61 but I will keep using it till I’m done Big Game hunting. I have carried it many a miles the last 35 plus years. Nosler makes .264 Win Mag ammo as well as Winchester and Remington. Actually they did get 3200FPS and it was with a two diameter bullet and 26 inch barrel. Yes they had a two diameter bullet and Nosler made them I have a Photo of a old box, so yes they did exist. Just FYI I just sight it dead on at 300 yards.
Been waiting for this video. Bought a Model 721 in 264 about 6 years ago. Incredible on Mule deer. Using the 120 TTSX Barnes bullets.
What powder are you burning? I use Mag Pro with that same bullet, 3300 fps. Sub MOA, great combo.
Reloaded 22 gets me 3156 fps.
Thanks for the video. Just harvested my deer with a 300win mag, ammo is easy to find and it’s reliable. Weatherby mark V
My favorite round of all time is the .270win! But…. I’ve always wondered and had a soft spot in my heart for the .264win mag. I shot one about 15 years ago in a model 70 Featherweight and really enjoyed how well it shot.
My favorite is the 30-378 weatherby.
🤠 Better read my review that I just posted on this subject! 👨💻
Back in the early '80's, there were groundhogs eating soy beans everywhere in Western Kentucky. ( 50 ft to 1000 yards in row crop fields). After we went through a 22 caliber phase, a friend purchased a 264 Win Mag, and we benched/handloaded/tested bullets in the 77-100 gr. range, pushing them to 3400 ft/sec just for that specialized use. On a closed property, we hunting excusively for ranges minimun 350 yards to 700 yards. We purchased one decent Drop Compensator Scope which went up to 18X. Harvested many varmints for a couple of seasons and had many friendship filled afternoons that warm my heart to this day. The rifle was used only one time for a buck deer for the farmers larder, which dropped immediately at the shoot from 300 yards uisng the 100 gr bullet.
Thanks for the video. Long live the Westerner!
Iwant a 264!! The old ad read "packs a helluva punch and makes a helluva rackt"
Just ordered a 264 win barrel for my savage build. I'm excited to get it together
I've been shooting a custom built 264 mag by w h hobaugh. Have Had it since I was 16. Now 53. I have killed everything from elk to coyotes. It out shoots my creed more. Really great hitting power. Also high sectional density for.a 140 grainer!!
Wonderful presentation, Ron.
Remington had a Sendero in 264 WM available in the U.K. about 25 years ago together with the 300RUM
🤠 Ronbo (Montana Mountain Man) - Just like I challenged you earlier in the week, about the 6.8 Western being a "better cartridge" than the 270 Winchester - now I want to challenge your claims that the 264 Winchester Magnum and 6.5 prc are "better performers" than the 270 Winchester, also! The highest B.C. hunting bullet out their for the 6.5 mm is the 140 grain Speer Impact (B.C. of 0.646) and for the 270 Winchester it is the Lost River Ballistics 135 grain J-36 Hunting Bullet (B.C. of 0.649)! It should already be apparent to you, without even running the numbers - because the 270 bullet has a larger base, with more surface area and a slightly higher B.C. bullet (so, it will push the bullet at a higher velocity and keep that advantage at long distances) - as to which will win this contest! But, using the following inputs for my typical hunting conditions, we will run the numbers in the Horneday Ballistics Calculator for comparison: Hunting Elevation = 8,000 ft, Temperature = 32 F, Relative Humidity = 20%, Cross Wind = 10 mph, Zero = 200 yards! The results (using Your highest muzzle velocity of either the 6.5 prc or 264 Winchester Magnum, of 3,065 ft/s) were as follows: 264 Winchester Magnum/6.5 prc: Muzzle Velocity = 3,065 ft/s, Bullet Velocity @ 500 yards = 2,505 ft/s, Bullet Energy @ 500 yards = 1,950 ft lbs, Bullet Drop @ 500 yards = -31.2", Wind Drift @ 500 yards = -9.2"! For the 270 Winchester, using Reloader 26 (though you could get greater velocities than either of these two 6.5's also, using Magpro or Reloader 16 powder too), for the 270 Winchester: Muzzle Velocity = 3,150 ft/s, Bullet Velocity @ 500 yards = 2,582 ft/s, Bullet Energy @ 500 yards = 1,998 ft lbs, Bullet Drop @ 500 yards = -29.4", Wind Drift @ 500 yards = -8.8"! Horneday, in their last podcast #44, made another great point too! Since the (Nosler) Reloading Manual(s) shows that almost all the loads only fill no more than 80% of the 264 Winchester case, without exceeding maximum pressures (a very poorly designed cartridge for the task at hand, because of this) - laying that case on it's side and shooting it will result in a more unequal distribution of the powder in the case and an unequal and inconsistent powder ignition - thus, resulting in greater "inaccuracies in accuracy"! Also, with the heavier bullet and additional powder (while needing a 26" barrel to work as advertised), the 264 Winchester Magnum will have more recoil than the 270 Winchester here (and 6.5 prc also, because of the extra powder - 75 grains of LTR powder for the 264 Winchester Magnum vs. 56 grains of Norma MRP powder for the 6.5 prc - it used to get only 20 ft/s more muzzle velocity than even the 6.5 prc, using Nosler's Reloading data)! So, those are the FACTS! The 270 Winchester just "performs better" than either and will do it with less recoil here too (which also helps for better accuracy, as well)! So (once again), YOUR WRONG - as you also made a mistake on the recoil of the 6.5 prc in your tables and the B.C. of the 145 grain 0.277 ELD-X bullet that you were using to make your comparison with - it should be a B.C. of 0.536, not a B.C. of 0.485, for that 0.277 145 grain ELD-X bullet! Not good Ron, as your not even using the right information to make your comparisons with! 😱 Trust me, just stay with the 270 Winchester and you'll be better off! 😜 By now, apart from the "PERFORMANCE", I shouldn't have to go into ALL of the other ADDITIONAL REASONS why the 270 Winchester is better...like rifle availability, cost to shoot, brass cost and availability, larger bullet frontal area, barrel life (1/2 of what the 270 Winchester can get), 31% additional recoil than compared to the 270 Winchester (using the numbers from your own charts - though I get 38% less recoil, using my suggested load, and also better performance with the 270 Winchester), etc...! 😃 You said that "you wanted to SHOW OFF what the 270 Winchester CAN REALLY DO"! But, did You? ☹ You also said that "You really wanted to GIVE the 270 Winchester ALL THE CREDIT that it can get"! But, did You? 🙄 You also said that "the 264 Winchester Magnum IS SUPERIOR to both the 6.5 prc and 270 Winchester IN BALLISTICS AND PERFORMANCE" - but that doesn't match up, when even comparing the 6.5 prc to the 264 Winchester Magnum, even using your own tables! 🤯 Hey Ron, using my 270 Winchester load (with 53% less recoil), I can get 1,998 ft lbs of Terminal Energy at 500 yards (compared to your listed 1,979 ft lbs of Terminal Energy for the 26 Nosler, at the same distance)! 🤣 But, those are just some of the REASONS WHY I BEG TO DIFFER WITH YOU! 🕵️♂️ I hope that YOU WILL RECONSIDER ALL OF YOUR "CONCLUSIONS" 🤦♂️ regarding the 270 Winchester, as it is "SUPERIOR" to ALL of it's "competitors" and that is WHY it hasn't been "dethroned" 🤴 after nearly a Century (100 Years)? 😁👨💻
Last time I looked Winchester was still chambering model 70s in .264 win mag today.
Ron, I bought a Sako Finnbear chambered in 264 Win Mag in 1964. I’ve used it for target shooting and when new it was 1/2 MOA. A friend of mine wanted it so much 30 years ago I sold it to him. He still target shoots with it occasionally and it still shoots sub 1 MOA. I love the 264 Win Mag and would buy another rifle in that cartridge if I had the chance. My old rifle still has its original barrel and firing chamber.
🤠 Ron, You have several major mistakes in your tables! The 270 Winchester 145 grain ELD-X bullet has a B.C. of 0.536, not 0.485! The 6.5 prc doesn't have 38 ft lbs of recoil either! You should read my commentary, as I think I layed out a much better case for the 270 Winchester than you did! 🕵️♂️
I own a .264 win mag built in 1959 that I acquired on an estate sale. So only used on one deer hunt so far but what can’t I take game wise in lower 48 that my 270 or 25-06 will do? It’s a wonderful cartridge that never quite got it’s due. I own all except the 7mm rem mag also own 30-06 and 300 rem ultra mag. They all will work but I like fast cartridge’s so I’m going to develop some more loads for the 264 and hopefully God will grace me with many more hunts with all my rifles. But one deer with that 264 and I harvested my largest deer of my life so that old rifle that’s 6 years my senior holds a special place on my mantle! I’ve worked with Reloader 33 and Barnes 127 grain LRX it’s pushing 3300 fps sub 1” can’t complain!
I've been using Speer Gold Dot 140 gr bonded VLD style with Lazer performance. I tested it threw 2"x4" (3) water jugs , 1"x6" (4) water jugs. At 3000 fps with a 1:9 twist .571 BC it's stabilize's just fine. It has the same bullet length as the Aframe. The Eldx bullet length won't stabilize in the 1:9 only the 1:8 twist.
I can’t have enough of your knowledge to be honest. Some times I wish I was your close friend so I can sit down and have conversations with you every single day lol
It’s very hard to find people these days like you to be honest I am an old fashion born in 1976 I miss the old days and I am stuck there so when I see something related to my old days I can’t appreciate it enough to watch it and listen to it. It’s too bad the world have changed so much towards the worse and took away our enjoyment in this life for those old enough will understand what I am talking about. One day we will even miss and remember all these videos when they are no longer available to even watch and listen to its sad but it’s true nothing has gotten better since 25 plus years I have been in this country.
I have a model 70 Winchester in a 264. I customize it with a 30 inch stainless steel Shilen Barrel, with ratchet rifling, 1-8 twist. I shoot 143 gr. long range bullets 3300 fps. It shoot, wonderfully. Nothing has ever gotten-up, after getting hit. I love this weapon! ❤
yep, still have my Dad's 1968 Herter's U9 (a BSA) with the 26 inch tube, in .264 Win Mag. That thing BARKS! but it is a fine hunting rifle. a bit much for using in New Hampshire woods, but I have not missed when hunting with that thing... the 100 grain sierra bullets SCREAM out of it and do a number on woodchucks. Have only shot one deer with it and aside from not hearing for the next five minutes, it performed perfectly.
I've posted this before .I started out with Remingtons big seven and so never looked at the 270 or the 264 .years later I switched to the 3006 which I still rate as king.i recently bought a m70 in 708.im amazed at the Ballistics this small round puts out.for a young serious hunter I would recommend a 280 Remington virtually the same trajectory as the wonderful 270 with more bullet weights and less recoil than a 3006 .total winner
Got both my son’s the 7-08. It’s quite impressive I agree. Not many take a step.
🕵️♂️ Better read my review that I just posted above, on this subject! 👨💻
@@ronlowney4700 I would love to read your post where can I find it.i understand that the 264 win will outperform the 06 and the 280 but at what cost?
My Title is " 🤠 Ronbo (Montana Mountain Man)"! So, look for that! 😜
😎 I will see if I can find the other posts! I did a lengthy discussion under someone else's conversation and I compared the 270 Winchester to ALL it's challengers, including the 30-06, 280AI, 300 wsm, 6.8 Western, 7mm Remington Magnum, and 270 wsm! I layed out my case as to why the 270 Winchester is the best! It really comes down to Performance vs. Recoil! Out to 500 yards, you really don't need anything else! 🤷♂️
Before the 6.5prc and 26 nosler I had a 264win built with a 1:7 twist barrel. I now shoot the berger 156 eol out of it at only 3050fps. It has accounted for multiple deer beyond 700yards and multiple bears beyond 400yards. It's a just a great killer.
Had a .264winmag for a week or so, somebody offered me enough to let it go with a smile. Never even shot it but new owner was extremely happy with it. As to stainless barrels in Model 70, yes they did, they ironplated the stainless then blued it. Because the ironplated was poreous, get it heated, and the pores would expand, attract humidity and eventually blister, then flake, looking like a shedding horse. I have yet to see one that has been able to retain that finish. I know one fellow that coated his barrel in pickup bed coating.
Yes there were some stainless barreled M70 .264’s that were pre-1964. They had a type of black matted finish on the barrel compared to the normal blued barrels.
I believe that it was a stainless steel barrel.
There was no way to blue stainless barrel's in those days, iirc
Back when I first wanted to purchase my 1st rifle to hunt deer and elk. My cousin's father in law said he would sell me one of his. They were all scoped and sighted in. And the 1 rifle I wanted most was a Winchester model 70 in .264 Win Mag. He politely told me any of them but that one he would sell. I ended up buying the Browning A Bolt in 7 Rem Mag but I still wish I might have talked him out of that Model 70. Good information as always sir.
I had a pre 64 mod 70 in 264 win mag! It took many mule deer and a couple elk. I traded it off for a 7mm mag when I didn't have time to reload any longer. Ammo just wasn't easy to find and when you did it was expensive.
Thankyou Ron
Cheers
Rob
Great information again. Thanks. Just an fyi but I think you had a small typo. The 7mm 160gr bullet has a sectional density of .283. I just noted it because I hunted for a lot of years with handloaded 160/162gr bullets in my 280.
Had a chance to buy 1968-69 Winchester model 70 264 wm but already had rem 700 7mm mag and ballistically it just looked better. This was late 1980s. My grandfather had said post 64 model 70s were not made well so I passed. Wished I had bought it now because he wanted $200 then. Been a great caliber collector rifle
With the availability of aftermarket longer barrels with different twist rates in conjunction with slower powders and an awesome selection of bullets I would think that the 264 Win Mag isn't more popular (I know, belted magnum but, 300 Win Mag is still very popular).
Great video and explanation Ron!
Small error: in your graphics chart (at 22:30), the 26 Nosler and 6.5-300 WBY have the same starting velocity and energy with the same bullet. Yet the 6.5-300 manages a better trajectory and more energy on target.
H1000, N165, and N160 are powders that extend the barrel life of the 264 Win mag. I shot the barrel out of a Win Model 70 Westerner with IMR 4831 with Hornady 129g sp at 3150 fps, killing results on white tails and hogs was impressive. Currently hand loading 140g Bergers at 3250 out of a 8T Krieger, 26".
Ron, they did make a dual diameter bullet in the 264. I have a box of Old winchester ammo that has that type of bullet in it.
Winchester still offers the .264 Win mag in their current production FN made model 70's. I think Winchester should have modernized this cartridge. A 1 and 7" or 8" twist barrel would have turned things around for it along with offering higher BC bullets for it. It shares an identical fate to the 6mm Remington. I think the recent popularity with 6.5's is it's only saving grace.
264 win is an awesome cartridge. Nosler loads it in an accubond 130+ currently. there is 6.5 freres 6.5x57 Mauser and 6.5x57 rimmed and the 6.5x68 magnum and many many more.
Great cartridge but REALLY loud. A buddy had one and if he shot, a mile away, you’d know it was him 😁! For me personally I will just keep my old/new 6.5x55 Swede SE. I’m not forced to use the older load data and am still wringing my Sauer out. I’m happy with my current load for this year’s deer season, but plan on seeing what I can get for next year.
I've got one of the original 700 BDL's with the stainless barrel, and I can't say how many rounds I've ran through it.
I got from my uncle in 1980, and he bought it new for hunting in Colorado exclusively, and I honestly can't say how many he ran through her, but she looks practically brand new to this day.
I've never had a problem with accuracy, and I replaced the fixed 4 power he used with couple different Leopold 10X, changed rings couple times separate from those never an issue darling it in.
I've hunted all over Texas parts of Arkansas Alabama Oklahoma Colorado, and never had an issue regardless of the weather.
I've south Texas in 80, 90 degrees, and I've hunted in sub zero weather, nothing seems to bother it, only limitation I believe the ole gurls ever had was me, and I am rather proficient in my placement.
Which is actually very easy to do when you know pretty much every time where it's gonna hit the mark at, and really only issue I've had was shooting extreme downhill elevations, but once I figure out what I was doing wrong that's not been an issue in so long I can remember it, but that's been over 30 years at least maybe longer.
I've shot Remington factory rounds, Winchester, and boat loads of hand loads that were on the lively side of things.
Never an issue, nowadays dam things are friggin ridiculously pricey, but really what isn't that is popular, are large enough to get the job done with either mass, are by sheer speed and knock down power.
Roger picked it up in the 80's or early 90's if memory serves me, but seems like it wasn't one of their premium weapons grades from what I remember, but seems like it shot well from what I recall.
Don't hold me to this, because I remember somethings pretty well, and somethings just bits n pieces these days.
I can tell you about the rifle I've carried for more than 40 years exclusively, with the exception of my old lever action 30-30 Marlin iorn sights I use for heavy brush thickets, because long gun is worthless as tits on a hog.
Are my Ruger super black hawk 44 mag also used in heavy cover situations, and just because I wanted to know if I was capable of doing it with a hand gun.
But those times are not very numerous compared to open field of view opportunities where I've been, as I prefer the opportunity to see what's around me.