Thank you. I might switch to CD. Your videos save me a lot of time and money. I donât have to buy a dozen different types of ammo to test. You do it for me, I greatly appreciate your time and work. However, it looks like you have a lot of fun shooting that Jug Or Not. I smile from ear to ear when I see you shooting that .
I wish that everyone understood the point of the "VS" platform. It is first and foremost for entertainment value as more ammo and more guns in one video is more data and more fun to see. The other reason I like to do "VS" is NOT to as a lot of people try to point out, to try to go as high of bullet weight on the smaller calibers and as low of bullet weight on the larger calibers to bring the bullet weights closer, nor do I try to bring the energy levels closer together -rather I use what is most common. My main point aside from entertainment value is to compare two cartridges that have overlapped primary use at the same time in history, which aside from current use in small circumstances/police departments/military would be about the 1930's to the 1980's, as in that time the military used a .45 ACP 5" 1911 pistol as their sidearms and American law enforcement (while many departments were regulated down to using only .38 Special) the true powerhouse setup for law enforcement was a 4" 6 shot revolver loaded with 125 gr .357 Magnum ammunition. So what we are looking at in a versus is not a versus of ballistics to an exact science, but rather a versus of two of the most legendary cartridges of the 20th century, on one side the military pistol and on the other side the law enforcement revolver.
I look at to loads individual, even in the "VS" videos. That said they're fun to watch. I still would like to see the 185+p Goldensabor, mainly because I'm picturing bologna confetti. But, I was wrong once and I suppose it could happen again.
@@GunSam Back when 40 was big I'd hear people say, "45 is dum, 40 hits harder than a 45 plus you get more rounds." Well a typical 40 s&w may have more foot pounds of energy at the muzzle than a typical 230grain standard pressure 45acp load, I think there is something to be said for mass, inertial, and a high ballistic coefficient. However, when you load a 45acp with a bullet that has the same mass as a 40s&w you tend to see high muzzle energies from the 45. A high energy projectile combined with a large surface area and a very large expanded diameter should make for a pretty good splash. All that said I prefer heavier bullets.
@@wastool I always remember people saying how the .45 auto doesn't penetrate as far as 9mm and .40, but in all my tests it penetrates more. I think what they mean is a 9mm and .40 will penetrate through more unrealistic civilian situation barriers like car doors, but in regular self defense situations the .45 will penetrate very far.
@@GunSam I saw an article written by a medical examiner working at the coroners office, in Atlanta Georgia, who said the same thing. Some bullets that preform well in gelatin sometimes only penetrated a few inches in actual shootings. In his opinion larger caliber bullets pushed through bone and other barriers more often than smaller calibers. He also noted that smaller calibers tended to deflect and yaw of course more readily than larger calibers. He did mention that 125 grain 357 magnums performed very well, but he almost never saw them since most people (particularly gangsters) use automatics.
Thanks for watching. I had no idea there wasn't any. I did test it in one other video in a snub and it did well too: czcams.com/video/kJOOKi32zI8/video.html
@@GunSam Ive watched that video about 10 times haha keep em coming! You can rest assured youve got at least one guy who loves your content (especially .357 Stubby) and im sure there are thousands more
Appreciate the .45 ACP and .357 Magnum Critical Defense, Critical Duty comparison....I have usually chose the C Defense over the C Duty especially in .45 ACP, however it looks like that 220 gr C Duty is going to be better at expanding. Makes me think a 3 or 4 inch barrel on the .357 would be your best bet with either ammo. I will have to go back and see if you did C Defense and C Duty on .38 special and .38 special +P as well as 2 inch vs. 4 inch. Thanks again Gun Sam!
@@GunSam Thank you. I'm fond of .45 acp and 357 magnum. While in the Navy in the mid-60s our duty side arm was a 1911 carrying 45 acp ball ammo. At the time we were conducting patrols of South Vietnam and I wanted something a little hotter. The next time we returned to the Philippines I visited the Navy & Marine Corps Exchange I picked up a Colt Trooper 357 magnum with a 6" barrel. No question it is a genuine hard hitter. That said, I'm carrying my 1911 45 acp on my side today.
I'll call ya out but don't even get me strated on the white beard crap youngster, wait a few more years because you ain't got white yet, when I look in the mirror anymore at my beard it's like looking at a ghost,,,,white is all I see in it anymore, my hair and beard gets any whiter I'll look like a giant Q tip, wish I could experience a little male pattern balding just so I wouldn't have to look at it LOL, take care bro.
Sammy boy dont stress the white.. I always would tell my barber that I'm getting old im getting all these white hairs till finally one day he says Banz relax, your ass has no reason to cry take the white hairs I've got customers in there late 20's going bald you have a full head of hair I looked at myself in his mirrors I said holy shit hes right I never ever complain about white hairs anymore...
I'm 68, started to let my beard grow out. Was quite surprised how white it's become in front. Sides are salt and pepper. Very little male pattern baldness, for which I'm thankful. Didn't worry much when I first began graying, then later I noticed it had spread to, down under, so to speak.
I was shocked on the 0.45acp Critical Defense. I carry 0.40cal Critical Defense in my Glock G27 concealed carry and I am not so sure I should be utilizing that round. đŹđŹ. I always thought Critical Defense was supposed to be a superior round. Keep up the videos.
Thanks for watching. I have tested a lot of rounds and the common thing is there's never one brand with across the line perfect performance, so .40 might be okay. But that being said, most of my handguns are currently loaded with Speer Gold Dot as that line has the most good calibers. 45, .357 mag 4", .357 SB in 2", 9mm+p in Ruger pistol. The only calibers I don't like in Gold Dot is .38 Special and .327 mag. The Hydrashok is better in those.
I have 45 Critical Defense loaded in my HK right now. Makes me question my life's choices. Maybe I should have joined the peace corps. Maybe I should have salmon instead of steak for dinner tonight. How can I be blissfully ignorant if you keep testing things like this? You keep this up and I'm going to have to buy some Spear Gold-Dots or something. Rock on!
I think it's decent ammo, the only downside is it's only in a few calibers, I think 9 and 10mm, .40, .357, .45 and maybe one or two others is all, as where Critical Defense has a ton of caliber choices.
I like the critical duty in my J-Frame. It feels like it is loaded lighter than a full power 357 load. So I get a bit less sting shooting it. You should say in one of your videos that each gallon jug represents four quarts of water and see who catches that. ;-)
To me the Critical Duty in .357 Mag and 9mm+P both had that feeling that can only be described as they feel "right", solid, good etc. But if I remember right the jugs represent 8 half quarts of water but in the winter are closer to 128 oz ;)
Good video. Some food for thought. I carry Critical Duty in my Bersa .45, but Critical Defense +P in my .38 snubs as well as my .357 snub. I have been thinking of going with HST for the snubs but budget constraints have kept me from adding to my ammo stores. Always interesting watching your comparisons though.
Thank you. In my testing so far in snubs, the .357 Critical Defense fails to expand but I've only tested it in the snub once. The .38+p almost always expands as I have tested it 4-5 times but its failed to expand one time. HST is decent in .38+p but under penetrates.
Even a non-expanding 45 puts a hurting on those water jugs. I have a feeling a 185 +p Goldensabor would give the 357 a run for it's money. Underwood has a 185 xtp they advertise as 1200 fps if it's true that's a spicy meatball.
So I carry an M&P 45 shield 3.3â barrel Iâve done some testing as well and the only thing Iâve found do halfway decent is HST 230G aside from just standard 230G ball which actually went through 4-5 jugs when I tested it. So from that I conclude that in such a smaller barrel I could be pretty safe carrying just ball ammo ?
Take that fiberboard hole from the .45 Critical Duty and place it on your heart. Then put a hole from a 9mm HP under it. It will show you that it is better to hit with a bullet that makes abigger hole as the blood loss will be much faster, hence the thug goes down quicker. You are doing good work in showing great alternatives to the 9mm. I read once where the Indiana State Police were extremely reluctant to switch from their .357 Magnum revolvers to the 9mm. Only after they tested at length the 40 S&W did they switch to that for semi auto use.
Just Us Up North: better be kind to your bologna it has a shelf life and if you're too "hard " on it now it won't last nearlly as long as it should into the future.
My two favorite handgun cartridges. Stainless GP100 6" as well as my blued full size Springfield range officer 1911..Both are heavy and so fun to target shoot with. I do carry them occasionally in the wintertime, but I always have one of them in my truck while on the road to go along with my third pistol my ccwl s&w Bodyguard.
I will have to at some point get a 6" .357 Mag to see how the velocity is. Some sources show barely a change over 4" like maybe 20 FPS more, some sources show a huge difference. I want to know for myself what a 6" .357 Mag is like.
@@GunSam Yeah I wished I had a chrono myself to test it out. Even heavier full house rounds are easier to shoot than a J Frame with 38's in it..Doesn't feel all that powerful but you know it is when it hits the targets it explodes..lol! I've read the same as you hard to know...I'd let you borrow it if you were closer...Only thing that is a bother to me with the longer barrel is when I'm sitting with it..Always in the way..hahaha!
Great test. Disappointed in the CDef 45. With that velocity, it should expand fine. The magnums dud well, as expected. Someone commented on rhe 40 vs 45 debate. Well, there is about half a thimbleful of diff between a 180 gr 40 and a 185 gr 45 ACP in duty size guns. Velocities are very close and sometimes identical. The 40 might have ever so slightly more sectional density (i don't know what the numbers are). But still not much difference. I love my P229 and i love my various 45's. It was always nice on the street knowing i had 37 rounds if need be, since i was frequently the only officer on shift. Anyway, great tests as always
That round is powerful. I used to run it in my 3.7" G36 and it performed well when I tested it a long time ago. I ran one round through the chronograph with this 5.3" G41 and got something like 1,080 FPS. It's one of the more powerful .45 ACP loads.
Yo your system with the bologna fiber board and water jugs is literally almost perfectly on par with ballistic gel like i have watched hundreds of ballistic gel videos done some of my own ballistic gel test as well and with the 45 acp critical defense always does that in ballistic gel never expands and slows down just enough not to get fmj penetration the critical duty usally expands in 45acp not all the time but keep up the awesome work
Thank you. And that's how I know how my test medium works, I have watched a lot of other content with the same ammo I have tested, so after 9 months or so you notice about 2 months ago I started stating how it compares to gel as every ammo I tested I looked for the same ammo tested in gel. The only time it's not "accurate" for comparison is when a bullet does not expand and over-penetrates as up to about jug 4 we have good resistance but jug 5 and 6 never get hit hard, so while 1-4 can truly represent 3" of gel each, jug 5 and 6 might represent only 1.5" of gel, but luckily almost everything stops in 2-4.
No offense but I'm trying to figure out what difference does it make witch of these guns or bullets your using because both will take care of the business that they were designed for just asking
Thank you. I have some people that like to get on my videos just to tell me to get "real" testing setup, aka nothing but ballistics gel. But to me what I do sort of mixes a consistent medium to compare penetration, with real world obstacles to get through.
Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ exactly. Ballistic gel is nice but what you got is more real world. And not nearly as time taxing and expensive as gel. You could even put clothing material over the bologna to simulate a jacket or such.
It did well when I tested it in the Taurus 605 2" barrel, with that I got 1,180 FPS/417 ft lbs (this vid w 4" we got 1,317 FPS/520 ft lbs) and in the snub we got same water jug penetration through the bologna pack and bullet expanded to .569" (this test w 4" got .561") so, i'd say it's very consistent in all platforms.
I think it would be cool if you gave non-expanding bullets a second chance shot. If nothing else, should it not expand that would be very telling, and if it did expand youâd get to see the expansion potential. I tested the Critical Defense Zombie Max round many years ago with just denim and water jugs and it did good out of my a Glock 21. This was a very good review, I really enjoy watching your videos. Please consider the second chance shot for non-expanding bullets. Thanks.
I do this from time to time but what I typically do is just wait for another video. And funny you mention it in this video, because the Critical Defense .45 ACP is going to get another shot soon. I'm getting the 165 gr .44 Special Critical Defense and I still have 14 rounds of the .45 Critical Defense left. So, you WILL see it soon again but in better quality lol as this is my old camera phone, I been using a real camera since right after this video.
Good stuff. I carry the critical duty in a fullsize m&p 2.0 everyday. I just switched to the critical duty from Barnes tac xpd. I really like the Hornady. This is great info. I've been saving for my second handgun and really really want a revolver, for 357 mag and just because. But a tiny part of me is thinking about something in the s&w shield size just to have an option for better concealment and I think, mostly looking at the .45 acp shield. Thanks again!
Thanks for watching. The 9mm Critical Duty does well too in my testing. In my experience a good old revolver that's still a good name and you can count on is something like a S&W 642, 637, 638 and the like. Decent .38 Special only for about $400. The .357 revolvers are obviously better with versatility and one has a ton of relevant options with frame size and barrel length. The Taurus 605 I been using lately seems to be a good quality for a $300 .357 Mag revolver. In my opinion once you get up to $500 range like a full size Taurus or something, it's better to just spend a couple hundred more and get a S&W 686 or 66 Combat Magnum, that's just my opinion though.
@@GunSam thank you so much for this input. I drool over a Smith 686. My father inlaw has a gp100 that's super nice as well. My budget lies in that Taurus area. But I've been doing my research and I have a great local shop that will help me out making sure my specific model is what it should be. I'd really love something in 357, but I am willing (maybe) to settle with .38 special if necessary. I will carry it from time to time and we do sometimes frequent areas known for bobcat, bear sightings, very rarely mountain lions.
It's a little bit of a Glock specific issue. If the Gen 4 and up are not held like a tactical commando, both thumbs held for far forward you look like an idiot, the over-sized magazine release can be actuated by any part of the hand. Hence why revolver guys who use normal handgun grips on their guns have issues with Glock. I think because the Glock is used there's also an issue with the mags, so I may get a new mag and see if this helps as the bevels where the mag catch holds it seem worn.
Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ - well thanks for not being offended by my a-hole comment. I haven had any such issue with my Glock 19 Gen4 but the wear on that part might be the issue. My revolver experience is minimal but even when fisting the Glock grip, Iâve always had to make a distinctive inward press to detach the mag. Very interesting results on your test though.
@@dsbiddle I had a cop comment on a different video that he has the same issues I have with Glock but when getting in and out of patrol cars the mags will drop. Interesting though, as when I bought this G41 MOS which is a $700 gun, I got it "used" looking like it had never been fired for $500 from a gun store and there were several of them in the gun store at one time. That's a little suspicious. I have owned and fired other Glocks as well and owned and fired dozens of other semi autos and I have never had a mag drop before, with the exception that I think the Diamondback DB9 gen 3 I have, I do think it did start to drop once, but I wear XL Gloves and it's tiny so no wonder on that one. This G41 has been problematic from day one. I plan to get a new G21/41 mag and see if this helps, if it does not i'm going to break my rule of never selling another handgun as to get my collection big, and actually sell it.
I hear ,The 45 acp magic is that it is a heavy but ment to be slower than 1000 fps ,Making go faster with longer barrel reduces it's damage to target ,Crazy huh
Hi Gun Sam: Thanks for that video. My 2 defensive calibers are 357 Mag and 45ACP! I don't suppose you could do the same test with Speer Gold Dot and Federal Hydra Shock? Thanks! You are a regular part of my video watching these days. Thanks!
Thanks for watching, but I have already tested all you mentioned. Hydrashok: czcams.com/video/k8NU2VlS7cs/video.html&t Gold Dot: czcams.com/video/DeUDDkYZ3zU/video.html&t
I was looking to get a 45acp gun, but seeing this discouraged me. I have 9mm and a 357mag, seeing the 357 somewhat outperform 45acp is amazing to me. Personally i wouldnt want to be shot by any!
I have done a lot of .45 ACP tests. I would say out of all calibers, it's the highest hyped one with the lowest performance to meet that hype. Also has drawbacks, like any round that expands needed to be a +P, and with +P I get all sorts of jams. A good full size 9mm will handle +P+ without jamming.
Yeah, bologna mist baby! Your pet load might be reliable, accurate, and reach good velocity, but the real test will be "Will it mist the meat?" Haha, could become a thing on the channel.
Speaking of pet loads, I have forever and a day been curious about how my hand loads would do, and I have never really tested them for velocity or damage. My favorite load is a 125 gr XTP .38 Special that I suspect would do 900 FPS in the 4" barrel and is one hole accurate. I must test that sometime!
@@GunSam Absolutely! Would love to see how your handloads do compared to factory loads. In fact perhaps others could offer suggestions of loads to try? That could be a fun series.
Do you have a theory why the Critical defense doesn't want to expand? I'd think the softer bullet would expand at least as much. I carry Critical Defense in my 9s and my .40, which are all compacts and subcompacts. Fortunately, my .357 and my .45 are both full size guns, so I already have Critical Duty for them.
I really don't know why it did not expand. Less bullet than average .45 at higher energy than average should have expanded it more. I suppose maybe, just maybe the fiber board (bone simulation) shoved the rubber tip into the hollow cavity more and prevented any hollow cavity pressure from opening it. Hence why it's good to watch ballistic gels tests AND other types of tests to get a full picture.
Because it's a ballistic tip with narrower tip than critical duty. Hollow points depend upon hydrostatic pressure inside the cavity to open up but ballistics tips need resistence force against the polymer tip and the tip exercises the pressure against the cavity walls to start expansion. The critical defense tip has a smaller frontal area than critical duty and water offers less resistance than meat, or ballistic gelatin, so they have less pressure inside the cavity to starts open up that's why they don't expand reliably in water.
I personally been avoiding the CD! after hanging up on my feedramp on my Ruger SR9C and hearing multiple times of this happening to others along with shallow penetration.. however the Duty round seems to work very well in full size pistols. carrying a compact though, making a decision for me seems to be a 115+p or 124+p.. I've settled on the Remington 115+p
I have tested the HTP 9mm 115 gr+P in the 9mm with decent result, I do plan to test it in a short barrel pistol when I get a +P rated 3.25" barrel pistol soon.
I'm picking up a G2C this weekend to do testing between 9mm+P and .357 Mag in my 2" Taurus because both have bullet nose to muzzle travel of 2.1", so it will be a great fair comparison series I plan.
The only thing is that Critical Duty needs more energy than Critical Defense as the lead is harder. But maybe scrap the Defense loads that also exist in the Duty line.
I been eyeing that load for a very long time, I just keep putting it off as I know it will do well so it's not as fun to test what's already known. Another reason is when I do .45 ACP I always like to compare it to .357 Mag, and there is no HST in .357 unfortunately. Probably the closest in felt recoil and effectiveness within the brand is the 130 gr Hydrashok "low recoil" .357 Mag round, as it gets great energy.
Why did the magazine fall out of your Glock? Did you accidentally put pressure on the magazine release or is your pistol defective? And if so, did you get it repaired? Thanks for making and posting this video.
Glock 41 , the conclusion I see from brief testing is Junk. If I had a 45 Auto and carried it to protect my life or my girlfriends life, I would sure as hell plan on the magazine not falling out !! Thank you for your ammo tests and I love ya Bro. always, Jimmy O.
I have tried a few things as I did purchase it used. replaced the mag release button to a smaller one because I suspected that the way I hold the pistol which is more of a crossed thumb hold was releasing the mag with the over-sized gen 4 mag release. I also replaced the mag catch spring to be sure. This reduced the issues, but it still kept happening from time to time. Under inspection the mag catch ledges on the magazines are a tad worn, so this might also be an issue. I think I will buy a new mag and see if this helps. If not, it's going to remain where it's been- just a test gun, as I don't carry it or use it for defense in any way.
@@GunSam Right on Brother, I had to poke at all the Glock fan boys. I will tell u something CRAZY/odd. I have dealt guns for 40 years, and have owned over 1,000. But just by chance, 3 of the most common, I have never owned. I have never owned a model 1911 in any brand, never owned a Glock, n never owned a semi-automatic shotgun.
Have a H&K USP Match in . 45 ACP . Have no problems to hit 220 out of 300 @ 25 m,with re loadet 195 gn SWC - a distance Police or military would not even consider to use a handgun. 357 at this distance from a Colt Python revolver is going all over the place , they can hardly make 150 out of 300 score - or they use 38. Than the results are similar to my . 45. Try a longer distance ...
Thank you. There's a lot of good .45 ammo out there. In the past I did test the Winchester PDX1 230 gr through a 3.6" Glock 36 and that round performed excellent in just denim and water jugs. I never got it's velocity but I did carry it and trusted it, seemed like a good short barrel round.
I usually go with the Winchester ranger t 230+p in a Dan wesson valkyrie commander. Feeds great good expansion and you can find them for under $30 shipped for le box of 50
If I'm ever attacked by a renegade water jug or chunk of bologna I know I can deal with it. I carry both calibers with both types of ammo. Just not both at the same time.
Well that's obviously not going to happen, but the initial resistance of 1.75" of bologna despite it's mushiness, is just enough to start, or fail to start expansion the same way it would in a pectoral muscle or similar amount of flesh.
Thank you. The .357 Mag is a good cartridge but in my experience it's one of those things where you have to pick the right load for each gun very carefully. Now when we talk 9mm lol, thats whatever as it's all pretty similar in all guns to some degree.
I don't think there's anything wrong with the .45 ACP. Lots of tests show it's an effective cartridge with FMJ ammo, so hollow points make it that much better. People should be realistic though as a 13+1 Glock isn't for most people, but a 6 or 7+1 single stack balances weight and still has good power and suited well for most self defense situations.
Well look at it this way; I had 50% success with Critical Defense .357 Mag as in a 2" barrel no expansion but in 4" there was expansion. With .45 ACP Critical Defense i'd say that was bad, 5.3" barrel should have expanded the bullet no matter what every single time tested. With the Critical Duty .357 Mag it expanded well in 3 tests with it, two with the 4" barrel and one in the 2" barrel- so I have no doubt the .357 Critical Duty is an excellent dependable round. With the .45 ACP Critical Duty it does expanded, tested it 2-3 times and it has expanded well, even in hard barrier tests I have done. So, if it were me i'd go with Critical Duty all the way.
Why I dont like hornady ammo, its unpredictable in results. When perform as designed it's great but they are not capable of building ammo the same from box to box.
I have had that happen too, specifically in .38 Special+P. Was getting like 1,130 FPS average with Critical Defense 110 gr+P in the 4" barrel, and then 6 months later was averaging like 1,050 FPS. Seems to always change.
Thank you, but most of the expense is provided by ad revenue and Patreon support. I still had to spend all at my cost for a few years before I was popular enough to get ad revenue or Patrons, but now it's just the work involved which is sometimes a lot.
In these handguns it was about the same, but keep in mind this revolver is about 12 ounces heavier than this Glock so that is why. The cartridges themselves the .357 Mag will have more recoil.
I use Hornady Critical Duty +P rounds, in all of my firearms. Due to my job, I have a higher probability of being targeted by bad people. If that were to happen, it is also very likely to be in my vehicle, and because where I live as extreme weather on both ends of the spectrum, the threat could also be wearing several thick layers of clothing. After testing multiple types of ammo, I found that the Critical Duty rounds performed the very best, after penetrating hard barriers. In my testing, I took a freshly euthanized pig that broke its leg at a feed lot and could not be used for consumption. I placed it in a junkyard vehicle and placed and duck taped a t-shirt, hoodie, and thick jacket over it and placed it in the front seat of a wrecked car. We then placed another wrecked car about a foot behind it. I fired from a Glock 17, Glock 19, Glock 22, and Glock 21 3 shots each. The rounds all went through the front windshield, of the junked vehicle I was in, through the rear window of the junked vehicle the pig was in, through the front seat, and then into the pig. All rounds penetrated deep enough that when I put my middle finger into the entry wounds, there was still more of a wound channel. So most likely, deep enough to hit vital organs. We then placed the vehicles side by side and I fired through the passengers door, into the drivers door where the dead pig was. I get the same results with all calibers. Unfortunately, I did not open the pig up and retrieve any of the rounds or examine the internal damage done. That is something that eventually, I would like to do but it costs a considerable amount of money to do.
That some pretty impressive testing. The most I ever tested like that was through 16 gauge steel and 1/2" pine into water jugs, and the Critical Duty definitely was better than Critical Defense. The Duty held together and expanded well but the Critical Defense got more mangled, lost jackets etc.
Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_, it was not a planned test. Where we live has farms and ranches all around us. There is a pig farm about an hour away. We buy our pork directly from them and noticed they had just put down an injured pig. We were given the pig but had to agree that none of it would be used for consumption. Originally, we were just going to go to the range and have fun with it but my friend called in a favor from the local junkyard. He knew I was planning on doing similar testing to Paul Harrelsâ meet targets. Instead, we used the pig and were really impressed with the results. After having more fun at the range with the pig and making one hell of a mess, we took what was left to the city dump. I then had to wash out the bed of my truck so my neighbors wouldnât think bad things of me.
@@j.r.777 I saw a video once where someone did shoot a pic carcass with a certain ammo, I don't recall what ammo but it was some sort of .38 Special ammo I had tested in my medium, and he pulled out the bullets and the bullets expanded and looked identical to the expanded bullets I got in my testing, but in gel tests this particular ammo does not expand. That made me feel good about my testing methods but it's great to have a better view from many angles of how ammunition might perform in the real world.
Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_, I know with the Hornady Critical Duty rounds, you will sometimes sacrifice complete round expansion, for round penetration. Especially, after the round has had to penetrate through a hard barrier. Iâve also done tests through residential doors, residential walls or at least smaller versions of a residential wall. I didnât shoot a gun in my house. But I did build a small wall to residential specs. Drywall, 2x4 studs, insulating and more drywall. I have also tested the ammo through individual auto glass and auto doors. On all testing, the rounds went into ballistics gel. The rounds were shot along with Federal Premium HST rounds, and Speer Gold Dot. All tests were done in the 3 different calibers through the 4 previously mentioned guns. The Critical Duty rounds performed the best when penetrating through barriers. They also performed almost as well when being fired straight into the ballistics gel. Around 60% of the ones I tested, across the board, expanded but not as well as a traditional hollow point. Expansion was around 50% to 75% with each round. About 35% to 40% did appear to fully expand or at least very close to it. But they penetrated and expanded in everything I shot. With the Federal Premium HST rounds and Speer Gold Dot rounds, both performed virtually identical. I think the HST rounds did perform slightly better on expansion though. These rounds in every caliber did fantastic with penetration and expansion, when fired directly into ballistics gel. However, anytime these rounds fired through any barriers, they either had the hollow point clog up with material and barely expanded or the partially expanded on one side of the round. Maybe 30% to 35% across the board in the different calibers, over penetrated and went completely through the ballistics gel, anytime they were shot through a barrier. If clothing was the only barrier they penetrated, they generally did well. Maybe 5% to 10% partially expanded and/or slightly over penetrated the ballistics gel. None went through the gel but a few rounds did stop at the very back of it. I recently bought a Glock 43X, with my wife and daughter in mind. Since they have smaller hands, the single stack is much easier for them to control. Since the barrel is less than 4â though, I need to do the same tests with that gun. I may also buy some of the Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator, and Xtreme Defender rounds as well. Since expansion doesnât apply to those rounds, my guess is the shorter barrels may not effect the performance of those rounds like it possibly could on the other types of ammo that I have tested. Weâll see how everything goes though.
Last week I shot a 130lb wild hog in the head 4 times the .40 critical defense to put it down. Kinda had me thinking what if that would have been a crackhead
That's a good experience because it shows what physical ability can be with something that does not mentally understand they are dying, so it keeps coming. The .40 is a good round and I haven't tested much of it, but the .45 auto in my opinion is still a good round especially with the right load. Might have taken less shots, who knows.
@@redriver6698 Well if she likes to shoot you can make a good argument for the .44 Special ammo in it. "it's cheaper ammo" lol, maybe by a small amount if you talk Critical Defense 20 rounds VS the most expensive .44 Mag ammo in 100 rounds!
@@somebloke13 Yeah it's weird how weather works. Where I live is the same distance from the equator as Paris France, but obviously the weather is not the same. Something to do with the ocean currents where east coasts are always cold but west coasts are always warm.
All the .45 guys are embarrased making excuses right now that it was "too cold" that night and that's why it didn't "expand" đ......đ a lil pecker/gun joke to end it on a high note đ
Hey Sam, Linking to my New .357 vs .45 Vid in drills which makes a better EDC? czcams.com/video/P6aSYIJse8Y/video.html&t=
Always enjoy a 357 video. Thanks
I like doing them in the 4" barrel, easy to shoot in that heavy thing.
Two of my favorite calibers and a load I have carried. Impressed with the critical duty. Thanks.
Thanks for watching!
Thank you. I might switch to CD. Your videos save me a lot of time and money. I donât have to buy a dozen different types of ammo to test. You do it for me, I greatly appreciate your time and work. However, it looks like you have a lot of fun shooting that Jug Or Not. I smile from ear to ear when I see you shooting that .
Thanks for watching! I do like to test ammo and in reality, i'd do it for myself if no one watched, but since I can record it and share it...why not?
Always like the comparison videos. Thanks for the hard work
Thanks for watching!
Agreed!đ
Awesome! This type of performance is why I carry the critical duty in my HK45. Great video!!!
I go to Your channel, for the critical information that really counts.
9:52. âThatâs a lot of Damageâ -Philâs swift
I wish that everyone understood the point of the "VS" platform. It is first and foremost for entertainment value as more ammo and more guns in one video is more data and more fun to see. The other reason I like to do "VS" is NOT to as a lot of people try to point out, to try to go as high of bullet weight on the smaller calibers and as low of bullet weight on the larger calibers to bring the bullet weights closer, nor do I try to bring the energy levels closer together -rather I use what is most common.
My main point aside from entertainment value is to compare two cartridges that have overlapped primary use at the same time in history, which aside from current use in small circumstances/police departments/military would be about the 1930's to the 1980's, as in that time the military used a .45 ACP 5" 1911 pistol as their sidearms and American law enforcement (while many departments were regulated down to using only .38 Special) the true powerhouse setup for law enforcement was a 4" 6 shot revolver loaded with 125 gr .357 Magnum ammunition. So what we are looking at in a versus is not a versus of ballistics to an exact science, but rather a versus of two of the most legendary cartridges of the 20th century, on one side the military pistol and on the other side the law enforcement revolver.
I look at to loads individual, even in the "VS" videos. That said they're fun to watch. I still would like to see the 185+p Goldensabor, mainly because I'm picturing bologna confetti. But, I was wrong once and I suppose it could happen again.
I bookmarked a place I can buy that from, i'll keep it in mind. Looks like 534 ft lbs energy rated lol.
@@GunSam Back when 40 was big I'd hear people say, "45 is dum, 40 hits harder than a 45 plus you get more rounds." Well a typical 40 s&w may have more foot pounds of energy at the muzzle than a typical 230grain standard pressure 45acp load, I think there is something to be said for mass, inertial, and a high ballistic coefficient. However, when you load a 45acp with a bullet that has the same mass as a 40s&w you tend to see high muzzle energies from the 45. A high energy projectile combined with a large surface area and a very large expanded diameter should make for a pretty good splash. All that said I prefer heavier bullets.
@@wastool I always remember people saying how the .45 auto doesn't penetrate as far as 9mm and .40, but in all my tests it penetrates more. I think what they mean is a 9mm and .40 will penetrate through more unrealistic civilian situation barriers like car doors, but in regular self defense situations the .45 will penetrate very far.
@@GunSam I saw an article written by a medical examiner working at the coroners office, in Atlanta Georgia, who said the same thing. Some bullets that preform well in gelatin sometimes only penetrated a few inches in actual shootings. In his opinion larger caliber bullets pushed through bone and other barriers more often than smaller calibers. He also noted that smaller calibers tended to deflect and yaw of course more readily than larger calibers. He did mention that 125 grain 357 magnums performed very well, but he almost never saw them since most people (particularly gangsters) use automatics.
Always wondered about these two.....thanks for some solid info
Thanks for watching!
FINALLY a video on Critical Duty in .357 thank you so much dude. You have no idea how long ive been looking for this.
Thanks for watching. I had no idea there wasn't any. I did test it in one other video in a snub and it did well too: czcams.com/video/kJOOKi32zI8/video.html
@@GunSam Ive watched that video about 10 times haha keep em coming! You can rest assured youve got at least one guy who loves your content (especially .357 Stubby) and im sure there are thousands more
Snubby*
Appreciate the .45 ACP and .357 Magnum Critical Defense, Critical Duty comparison....I have usually chose the C Defense over the C Duty especially in .45 ACP, however it looks like that 220 gr C Duty is going to be better at expanding. Makes me think a 3 or 4 inch barrel on the .357 would be your best bet with either ammo. I will have to go back and see if you did C Defense and C Duty on .38 special and .38 special +P as well as 2 inch vs. 4 inch. Thanks again Gun Sam!
Thanks Sam. Another great comparison!
Thanks for watching!
@@GunSam Thank you. I'm fond of .45 acp and 357 magnum. While in the Navy in the mid-60s our duty side arm was a 1911 carrying 45 acp ball ammo. At the time we were conducting patrols of South Vietnam and I wanted something a little hotter. The next time we returned to the Philippines I visited the Navy & Marine Corps Exchange I picked up a Colt Trooper 357 magnum with a 6" barrel. No question it is a genuine hard hitter. That said, I'm carrying my 1911 45 acp on my side today.
Both of them will do an excellent job for self defense. Get both!
My personal favorite ammo and two calibers. Awesome video !
Thanks!
No one has called me out for my white beard being suspiciously brown now LOL
I'll call ya out but don't even get me strated on the white beard crap youngster, wait a few more years because you ain't got white yet, when I look in the mirror anymore at my beard it's like looking at a ghost,,,,white is all I see in it anymore, my hair and beard gets any whiter I'll look like a giant Q tip, wish I could experience a little male pattern balding just so I wouldn't have to look at it LOL, take care bro.
Sammy boy dont stress the white.. I always would tell my barber that I'm getting old im getting all these white hairs till finally one day he says Banz relax, your ass has no reason to cry take the white hairs I've got customers in there late 20's going bald you have a full head of hair I looked at myself in his mirrors I said holy shit hes right I never ever complain about white hairs anymore...
@@looseballs1966 I have just noticed with turning 40, a lot looks and feels different than I recall before. Some positive, some negative.
Who is this whippersnapper and is he old enough to be messing with guns?
I'm 68, started to let my beard grow out. Was quite surprised how white it's become in front. Sides are salt and pepper. Very little male pattern baldness, for which I'm thankful. Didn't worry much when I first began graying, then later I noticed it had spread to, down under, so to speak.
I was shocked on the 0.45acp Critical Defense. I carry 0.40cal Critical Defense in my Glock G27 concealed carry and I am not so sure I should be utilizing that round. đŹđŹ. I always thought Critical Defense was supposed to be a superior round. Keep up the videos.
Thanks for watching. I have tested a lot of rounds and the common thing is there's never one brand with across the line perfect performance, so .40 might be okay. But that being said, most of my handguns are currently loaded with Speer Gold Dot as that line has the most good calibers. 45, .357 mag 4", .357 SB in 2", 9mm+p in Ruger pistol. The only calibers I don't like in Gold Dot is .38 Special and .327 mag. The Hydrashok is better in those.
I have 45 Critical Defense loaded in my HK right now. Makes me question my life's choices. Maybe I should have joined the peace corps. Maybe I should have salmon instead of steak for dinner tonight. How can I be blissfully ignorant if you keep testing things like this? You keep this up and I'm going to have to buy some Spear Gold-Dots or something. Rock on!
Thanks for watching. I have the Gold Dot 230 gr in my Glock right now.
@@GunSam Good ol' "Flying Ashtray!" :) The Gold Dot seems to do well in most calibers, too.
Good work, really enjoy your videos!
Thank you.
Shot a bunch of Critical Defense in .38, .357 and 9mm but I never tried Critical Duty. Based on your excellent video I will try some.
I think it's decent ammo, the only downside is it's only in a few calibers, I think 9 and 10mm, .40, .357, .45 and maybe one or two others is all, as where Critical Defense has a ton of caliber choices.
I like the critical duty in my J-Frame. It feels like it is loaded lighter than a full power 357 load. So I get a bit less sting shooting it.
You should say in one of your videos that each gallon jug represents four quarts of water and see who catches that. ;-)
To me the Critical Duty in .357 Mag and 9mm+P both had that feeling that can only be described as they feel "right", solid, good etc. But if I remember right the jugs represent 8 half quarts of water but in the winter are closer to 128 oz ;)
@@GunSam eight pints.
@@GunSam Some European is going to chime in with a sincere question on how this relates to metrics you know? Haha, good stuff.
I knew there had to be a good use for bologna!
Good video. Some food for thought. I carry Critical Duty in my Bersa .45, but Critical Defense +P in my .38 snubs as well as my .357 snub. I have been thinking of going with HST for the snubs but budget constraints have kept me from adding to my ammo stores. Always interesting watching your comparisons though.
Thank you. In my testing so far in snubs, the .357 Critical Defense fails to expand but I've only tested it in the snub once. The .38+p almost always expands as I have tested it 4-5 times but its failed to expand one time. HST is decent in .38+p but under penetrates.
Nice video! Critical duty and defense usually are good choice. A bit surprised about the defense in .45.
Thank you. Yeah that was weird. That being said I think it would still be effective as it is still .45 caliber going pretty fast.
Even a non-expanding 45 puts a hurting on those water jugs. I have a feeling a 185 +p Goldensabor would give the 357 a run for it's money. Underwood has a 185 xtp they advertise as 1200 fps if it's true that's a spicy meatball.
So I carry an M&P 45 shield 3.3â barrel Iâve done some testing as well and the only thing Iâve found do halfway decent is HST 230G aside from just standard 230G ball which actually went through 4-5 jugs when I tested it. So from that I conclude that in such a smaller barrel I could be pretty safe carrying just ball ammo ?
Nice video and great info
Thank you.
Take that fiberboard hole from the .45 Critical Duty and place it on your heart. Then put a hole from a 9mm HP under it. It will show you that it is better to hit with a bullet that makes abigger hole as the blood loss will be much faster, hence the thug goes down quicker. You are doing good work in showing great alternatives to the 9mm. I read once where the Indiana State Police were extremely reluctant to switch from their .357 Magnum revolvers to the 9mm. Only after they tested at length the 40 S&W did they switch to that for semi auto use.
Bologna damage makes me happy.đđ
Just Us Up North: better be kind to your bologna it has a shelf life and if you're too "hard " on it now it won't last nearlly as long as it should into the future.
My two favorite handgun cartridges. Stainless GP100 6" as well as my blued full size Springfield range officer 1911..Both are heavy and so fun to target shoot with. I do carry them occasionally in the wintertime, but I always have one of them in my truck while on the road to go along with my third pistol my ccwl s&w Bodyguard.
I will have to at some point get a 6" .357 Mag to see how the velocity is. Some sources show barely a change over 4" like maybe 20 FPS more, some sources show a huge difference. I want to know for myself what a 6" .357 Mag is like.
@@GunSam Yeah I wished I had a chrono myself to test it out. Even heavier full house rounds are easier to shoot than a J Frame with 38's in it..Doesn't feel all that powerful but you know it is when it hits the targets it explodes..lol! I've read the same as you hard to know...I'd let you borrow it if you were closer...Only thing that is a bother to me with the longer barrel is when I'm sitting with it..Always in the way..hahaha!
Great test. Disappointed in the CDef 45. With that velocity, it should expand fine. The magnums dud well, as expected. Someone commented on rhe 40 vs 45 debate. Well, there is about half a thimbleful of diff between a 180 gr 40 and a 185 gr 45 ACP in duty size guns. Velocities are very close and sometimes identical. The 40 might have ever so slightly more sectional density (i don't know what the numbers are). But still not much difference. I love my P229 and i love my various 45's. It was always nice on the street knowing i had 37 rounds if need be, since i was frequently the only officer on shift. Anyway, great tests as always
If 200grain gold dot+p wasn't available for my .45 I think I'd just use ball and know what to expect. Thanks Sam.
That round is powerful. I used to run it in my 3.7" G36 and it performed well when I tested it a long time ago. I ran one round through the chronograph with this 5.3" G41 and got something like 1,080 FPS. It's one of the more powerful .45 ACP loads.
Yo your system with the bologna fiber board and water jugs is literally almost perfectly on par with ballistic gel like i have watched hundreds of ballistic gel videos done some of my own ballistic gel test as well and with the 45 acp critical defense always does that in ballistic gel never expands and slows down just enough not to get fmj penetration the critical duty usally expands in 45acp not all the time but keep up the awesome work
Thank you. And that's how I know how my test medium works, I have watched a lot of other content with the same ammo I have tested, so after 9 months or so you notice about 2 months ago I started stating how it compares to gel as every ammo I tested I looked for the same ammo tested in gel. The only time it's not "accurate" for comparison is when a bullet does not expand and over-penetrates as up to about jug 4 we have good resistance but jug 5 and 6 never get hit hard, so while 1-4 can truly represent 3" of gel each, jug 5 and 6 might represent only 1.5" of gel, but luckily almost everything stops in 2-4.
@@GunSam agreed thanks for all the hard work you did to come up with this method
No offense but I'm trying to figure out what difference does it make witch of these guns or bullets your using because both will take care of the business that they were designed for just asking
Best answer, own at least one of each.
Critical defense is fun in full size handguns great video...
Thanks!
Good video. Thanksđ!
Thank you.
I really like your Jug setup. Well done
Thank you. I have some people that like to get on my videos just to tell me to get "real" testing setup, aka nothing but ballistics gel. But to me what I do sort of mixes a consistent medium to compare penetration, with real world obstacles to get through.
Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ exactly. Ballistic gel is nice but what you got is more real world. And not nearly as time taxing and expensive as gel. You could even put clothing material over the bologna to simulate a jacket or such.
@@GunSam tell the tools thanks for the comment but you prefer not to use jello very rarely does a bullet not expand well in jello
The critical duty are what I carry in my J-frame .38. I think it will get somebody off me.
It did well when I tested it in the Taurus 605 2" barrel, with that I got 1,180 FPS/417 ft lbs (this vid w 4" we got 1,317 FPS/520 ft lbs) and in the snub we got same water jug penetration through the bologna pack and bullet expanded to .569" (this test w 4" got .561") so, i'd say it's very consistent in all platforms.
Another win for the mighty 357.
Fantastic video! Iâd like to see a video with these two firearms comparing Critical Duty vs Speer Gold Dot.
I did a video a few weeks ago with the .357 VS .45 ACP with 125 gr Gold Dot VS the 230 gr Gold Dot.
Excellent!!! Iâll go check it out. Thanks for all the leg work you put in for us.
I think it would be cool if you gave non-expanding bullets a second chance shot. If nothing else, should it not expand that would be very telling, and if it did expand youâd get to see the expansion potential. I tested the Critical Defense Zombie Max round many years ago with just denim and water jugs and it did good out of my a Glock 21. This was a very good review, I really enjoy watching your videos. Please consider the second chance shot for non-expanding bullets. Thanks.
I do this from time to time but what I typically do is just wait for another video. And funny you mention it in this video, because the Critical Defense .45 ACP is going to get another shot soon. I'm getting the 165 gr .44 Special Critical Defense and I still have 14 rounds of the .45 Critical Defense left. So, you WILL see it soon again but in better quality lol as this is my old camera phone, I been using a real camera since right after this video.
Did you ever test the Hornady XTPs through the .357 and the .45 ?? Of course fired at max velocity's...........
Makes one wonder how the manufacturer tests their ammo.
Good stuff. I carry the critical duty in a fullsize m&p 2.0 everyday. I just switched to the critical duty from Barnes tac xpd. I really like the Hornady. This is great info. I've been saving for my second handgun and really really want a revolver, for 357 mag and just because. But a tiny part of me is thinking about something in the s&w shield size just to have an option for better concealment and I think, mostly looking at the .45 acp shield. Thanks again!
Thanks for watching. The 9mm Critical Duty does well too in my testing. In my experience a good old revolver that's still a good name and you can count on is something like a S&W 642, 637, 638 and the like. Decent .38 Special only for about $400. The .357 revolvers are obviously better with versatility and one has a ton of relevant options with frame size and barrel length. The Taurus 605 I been using lately seems to be a good quality for a $300 .357 Mag revolver. In my opinion once you get up to $500 range like a full size Taurus or something, it's better to just spend a couple hundred more and get a S&W 686 or 66 Combat Magnum, that's just my opinion though.
@@GunSam thank you so much for this input. I drool over a Smith 686. My father inlaw has a gp100 that's super nice as well. My budget lies in that Taurus area. But I've been doing my research and I have a great local shop that will help me out making sure my specific model is what it should be. I'd really love something in 357, but I am willing (maybe) to settle with .38 special if necessary. I will carry it from time to time and we do sometimes frequent areas known for bobcat, bear sightings, very rarely mountain lions.
The recoil knocked my mag out! YESSSS! That is classic.
It's a little bit of a Glock specific issue. If the Gen 4 and up are not held like a tactical commando, both thumbs held for far forward you look like an idiot, the over-sized magazine release can be actuated by any part of the hand. Hence why revolver guys who use normal handgun grips on their guns have issues with Glock. I think because the Glock is used there's also an issue with the mags, so I may get a new mag and see if this helps as the bevels where the mag catch holds it seem worn.
Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ - well thanks for not being offended by my a-hole comment. I haven had any such issue with my Glock 19 Gen4 but the wear on that part might be the issue. My revolver experience is minimal but even when fisting the Glock grip, Iâve always had to make a distinctive inward press to detach the mag. Very interesting results on your test though.
@@dsbiddle I had a cop comment on a different video that he has the same issues I have with Glock but when getting in and out of patrol cars the mags will drop. Interesting though, as when I bought this G41 MOS which is a $700 gun, I got it "used" looking like it had never been fired for $500 from a gun store and there were several of them in the gun store at one time. That's a little suspicious. I have owned and fired other Glocks as well and owned and fired dozens of other semi autos and I have never had a mag drop before, with the exception that I think the Diamondback DB9 gen 3 I have, I do think it did start to drop once, but I wear XL Gloves and it's tiny so no wonder on that one. This G41 has been problematic from day one. I plan to get a new G21/41 mag and see if this helps, if it does not i'm going to break my rule of never selling another handgun as to get my collection big, and actually sell it.
Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ - yeah, sounds like that pistol May have an issue. That sucks
A brilliant experiment!
Thank you lol
Great comparison
Thank you.
Good vid. Thanks
I bet that 45 flipped around and went through everything backwards.
Could you compare 185gr 45 ACP vs 158gr 357 Magnum, please??!đđ Thanks!!!
I hear ,The 45 acp magic is that it is a heavy but ment to be slower than 1000 fps ,Making go faster with longer barrel reduces it's damage to target ,Crazy huh
I liked that comparison ...... good video ...
Thank you.
Great video đđ
Thank you.
Hi Gun Sam: Thanks for that video. My 2 defensive calibers are 357 Mag and 45ACP! I don't suppose you could do the same test with Speer Gold Dot and Federal Hydra Shock? Thanks! You are a regular part of my video watching these days. Thanks!
Thanks for watching, but I have already tested all you mentioned. Hydrashok: czcams.com/video/k8NU2VlS7cs/video.html&t Gold Dot: czcams.com/video/DeUDDkYZ3zU/video.html&t
Noo...., That would be Gun Sam....
What?
I was looking to get a 45acp gun, but seeing this discouraged me. I have 9mm and a 357mag, seeing the 357 somewhat outperform 45acp is amazing to me. Personally i wouldnt want to be shot by any!
I have done a lot of .45 ACP tests. I would say out of all calibers, it's the highest hyped one with the lowest performance to meet that hype. Also has drawbacks, like any round that expands needed to be a +P, and with +P I get all sorts of jams. A good full size 9mm will handle +P+ without jamming.
Qual o modelo desse revolver?
Yeah, bologna mist baby! Your pet load might be reliable, accurate, and reach good velocity, but the real test will be "Will it mist the meat?" Haha, could become a thing on the channel.
Speaking of pet loads, I have forever and a day been curious about how my hand loads would do, and I have never really tested them for velocity or damage. My favorite load is a 125 gr XTP .38 Special that I suspect would do 900 FPS in the 4" barrel and is one hole accurate. I must test that sometime!
@@GunSam Absolutely! Would love to see how your handloads do compared to factory loads. In fact perhaps others could offer suggestions of loads to try? That could be a fun series.
Start telling people how happy you are when you "mist your targets" and see what reactions you get.
@@jedironin380 Haha, "oh yeah, mist it good, misted it real good!".
Nice video đ got some that 45 too bad don't wanna shoot it really đ
Do you have a theory why the Critical defense doesn't want to expand? I'd think the softer bullet would expand at least as much. I carry Critical Defense in my 9s and my .40, which are all compacts and subcompacts. Fortunately, my .357 and my .45 are both full size guns, so I already have Critical Duty for them.
I really don't know why it did not expand. Less bullet than average .45 at higher energy than average should have expanded it more. I suppose maybe, just maybe the fiber board (bone simulation) shoved the rubber tip into the hollow cavity more and prevented any hollow cavity pressure from opening it. Hence why it's good to watch ballistic gels tests AND other types of tests to get a full picture.
Because it's a ballistic tip with narrower tip than critical duty. Hollow points depend upon hydrostatic pressure inside the cavity to open up but ballistics tips need resistence force against the polymer tip and the tip exercises the pressure against the cavity walls to start expansion.
The critical defense tip has a smaller frontal area than critical duty and water offers less resistance than meat, or ballistic gelatin, so they have less pressure inside the cavity to starts open up that's why they don't expand reliably in water.
@@CommunismiEstCacas That makes sense. Thanks.
I personally been avoiding the CD! after hanging up on my feedramp on my Ruger SR9C and hearing multiple times of this happening to others along with shallow penetration.. however the Duty round seems to work very well in full size pistols. carrying a compact though, making a decision for me seems to be a 115+p or 124+p.. I've settled on the Remington 115+p
I have tested the HTP 9mm 115 gr+P in the 9mm with decent result, I do plan to test it in a short barrel pistol when I get a +P rated 3.25" barrel pistol soon.
@@GunSam yeah it'll work for me.. I'm done paying full prices for 20 round boxes of premium ammo
For me Winchester Train & Defend 9mm G19, G2C both love it đ€
I'm picking up a G2C this weekend to do testing between 9mm+P and .357 Mag in my 2" Taurus because both have bullet nose to muzzle travel of 2.1", so it will be a great fair comparison series I plan.
Hornady should just X the CDefense load and run CDuty across the board. Performance on the CDefense load has been so up and down and in and out.
The only thing is that Critical Duty needs more energy than Critical Defense as the lead is harder. But maybe scrap the Defense loads that also exist in the Duty line.
Just had to start off with block.
Glock41 is so sweet. Wierd we cant get it in California
There is only 1 load in 45 acp...federal hst 230 that is relavent today.... Anything else is dunnsky...
I been eyeing that load for a very long time, I just keep putting it off as I know it will do well so it's not as fun to test what's already known. Another reason is when I do .45 ACP I always like to compare it to .357 Mag, and there is no HST in .357 unfortunately. Probably the closest in felt recoil and effectiveness within the brand is the 130 gr Hydrashok "low recoil" .357 Mag round, as it gets great energy.
is the .357 much more powerful than the .45?
Usually yes. On average you're talking 50% more powerful
Why did the magazine fall out of your Glock? Did you accidentally put pressure on the magazine release or is your pistol defective? And if so, did you get it repaired? Thanks for making and posting this video.
Glock 41 , the conclusion I see from brief testing is Junk. If I had a 45 Auto and carried it to protect my life or my girlfriends life, I would sure as hell plan on the magazine not falling out !! Thank you for your ammo tests and I love ya Bro. always, Jimmy O.
have you thought it as possible user error?
I have tried a few things as I did purchase it used. replaced the mag release button to a smaller one because I suspected that the way I hold the pistol which is more of a crossed thumb hold was releasing the mag with the over-sized gen 4 mag release. I also replaced the mag catch spring to be sure. This reduced the issues, but it still kept happening from time to time. Under inspection the mag catch ledges on the magazines are a tad worn, so this might also be an issue. I think I will buy a new mag and see if this helps. If not, it's going to remain where it's been- just a test gun, as I don't carry it or use it for defense in any way.
@@GunSam Right on Brother, I had to poke at all the Glock fan boys. I will tell u something CRAZY/odd. I have dealt guns for 40 years, and have owned over 1,000. But just by chance, 3 of the most common, I have never owned. I have never owned a model 1911 in any brand, never owned a Glock, n never owned a semi-automatic shotgun.
2:52 I'll stick with the .357
.45 ACP and .357 SIG are my go to rounds.
Gloc mag drop should be their motto.
Have a H&K USP Match in . 45 ACP . Have no problems to hit 220 out of 300 @ 25 m,with re loadet 195 gn SWC - a distance Police or military would not even consider to use a handgun. 357 at this distance from a Colt Python revolver is going all over the place , they can hardly make 150 out of 300 score - or they use 38. Than the results are similar to my . 45. Try a longer distance ...
"What we see in bologna damage"
đ
Good video, I'm searching for a good carry round for my Dan Wesson ECO .45 3.5 barrel. I'll have to take a close look at the CD
Thank you. There's a lot of good .45 ammo out there. In the past I did test the Winchester PDX1 230 gr through a 3.6" Glock 36 and that round performed excellent in just denim and water jugs. I never got it's velocity but I did carry it and trusted it, seemed like a good short barrel round.
I usually go with the Winchester ranger t 230+p in a Dan wesson valkyrie commander. Feeds great good expansion and you can find them for under $30 shipped for le box of 50
@@danichicago9140 Thanks
Hornady seems to have a problem with pistol bullets.
If I'm ever attacked by a renegade water jug or chunk of bologna I know I can deal with it. I carry both calibers with both types of ammo. Just not both at the same time.
Well that's obviously not going to happen, but the initial resistance of 1.75" of bologna despite it's mushiness, is just enough to start, or fail to start expansion the same way it would in a pectoral muscle or similar amount of flesh.
Great video, 357 RULES!! I think Iâm using câduty (9mm and .40) , I get confused.. I just refer to them as hornady
Thank you. The .357 Mag is a good cartridge but in my experience it's one of those things where you have to pick the right load for each gun very carefully. Now when we talk 9mm lol, thats whatever as it's all pretty similar in all guns to some degree.
The 45 acp is the joke that nobody got. Well...maybe some. 357 = "massive amount of damage."
I don't think there's anything wrong with the .45 ACP. Lots of tests show it's an effective cartridge with FMJ ammo, so hollow points make it that much better. People should be realistic though as a 13+1 Glock isn't for most people, but a 6 or 7+1 single stack balances weight and still has good power and suited well for most self defense situations.
GLOCK FAILURE
So is he saying it is OK to use critical defense in a .357 but not in a .45.
Well look at it this way; I had 50% success with Critical Defense .357 Mag as in a 2" barrel no expansion but in 4" there was expansion. With .45 ACP Critical Defense i'd say that was bad, 5.3" barrel should have expanded the bullet no matter what every single time tested. With the Critical Duty .357 Mag it expanded well in 3 tests with it, two with the 4" barrel and one in the 2" barrel- so I have no doubt the .357 Critical Duty is an excellent dependable round. With the .45 ACP Critical Duty it does expanded, tested it 2-3 times and it has expanded well, even in hard barrier tests I have done. So, if it were me i'd go with Critical Duty all the way.
I see a lot of vids with poor performance by the critical defense.
Why I dont like hornady ammo, its unpredictable in results. When perform as designed it's great but they are not capable of building ammo the same from box to box.
I've tested it in my 3.3 inch shield and c defense sometimes does great and other times it doesnt.
I have had that happen too, specifically in .38 Special+P. Was getting like 1,130 FPS average with Critical Defense 110 gr+P in the 4" barrel, and then 6 months later was averaging like 1,050 FPS. Seems to always change.
Great video đ. Thanks for spending YOUR MONEY on bologna and milk jugs. Saves your viewers $ $
Thank you, but most of the expense is provided by ad revenue and Patreon support. I still had to spend all at my cost for a few years before I was popular enough to get ad revenue or Patrons, but now it's just the work involved which is sometimes a lot.
Which had more felt recoil?
In these handguns it was about the same, but keep in mind this revolver is about 12 ounces heavier than this Glock so that is why. The cartridges themselves the .357 Mag will have more recoil.
@@GunSam Thanks for the response. I can handle 357 magnum with ease. Would like to get into 40-45-10mm but was always worried about the recoil.
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45 ACP is 45 ACP, mass vs velocity
Super hungry for bologna now...thanks
I have never been hungry fro bologna in my whole life. Nasty stuff.
357 is no joke
I use Hornady Critical Duty +P rounds, in all of my firearms. Due to my job, I have a higher probability of being targeted by bad people. If that were to happen, it is also very likely to be in my vehicle, and because where I live as extreme weather on both ends of the spectrum, the threat could also be wearing several thick layers of clothing. After testing multiple types of ammo, I found that the Critical Duty rounds performed the very best, after penetrating hard barriers.
In my testing, I took a freshly euthanized pig that broke its leg at a feed lot and could not be used for consumption. I placed it in a junkyard vehicle and placed and duck taped a t-shirt, hoodie, and thick jacket over it and placed it in the front seat of a wrecked car. We then placed another wrecked car about a foot behind it. I fired from a Glock 17, Glock 19, Glock 22, and Glock 21 3 shots each. The rounds all went through the front windshield, of the junked vehicle I was in, through the rear window of the junked vehicle the pig was in, through the front seat, and then into the pig. All rounds penetrated deep enough that when I put my middle finger into the entry wounds, there was still more of a wound channel. So most likely, deep enough to hit vital organs. We then placed the vehicles side by side and I fired through the passengers door, into the drivers door where the dead pig was. I get the same results with all calibers.
Unfortunately, I did not open the pig up and retrieve any of the rounds or examine the internal damage done. That is something that eventually, I would like to do but it costs a considerable amount of money to do.
That some pretty impressive testing. The most I ever tested like that was through 16 gauge steel and 1/2" pine into water jugs, and the Critical Duty definitely was better than Critical Defense. The Duty held together and expanded well but the Critical Defense got more mangled, lost jackets etc.
Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_, it was not a planned test. Where we live has farms and ranches all around us. There is a pig farm about an hour away. We buy our pork directly from them and noticed they had just put down an injured pig. We were given the pig but had to agree that none of it would be used for consumption. Originally, we were just going to go to the range and have fun with it but my friend called in a favor from the local junkyard. He knew I was planning on doing similar testing to Paul Harrelsâ meet targets. Instead, we used the pig and were really impressed with the results. After having more fun at the range with the pig and making one hell of a mess, we took what was left to the city dump. I then had to wash out the bed of my truck so my neighbors wouldnât think bad things of me.
@@j.r.777 I saw a video once where someone did shoot a pic carcass with a certain ammo, I don't recall what ammo but it was some sort of .38 Special ammo I had tested in my medium, and he pulled out the bullets and the bullets expanded and looked identical to the expanded bullets I got in my testing, but in gel tests this particular ammo does not expand. That made me feel good about my testing methods but it's great to have a better view from many angles of how ammunition might perform in the real world.
Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_, I know with the Hornady Critical Duty rounds, you will sometimes sacrifice complete round expansion, for round penetration. Especially, after the round has had to penetrate through a hard barrier. Iâve also done tests through residential doors, residential walls or at least smaller versions of a residential wall. I didnât shoot a gun in my house. But I did build a small wall to residential specs. Drywall, 2x4 studs, insulating and more drywall. I have also tested the ammo through individual auto glass and auto doors. On all testing, the rounds went into ballistics gel. The rounds were shot along with Federal Premium HST rounds, and Speer Gold Dot. All tests were done in the 3 different calibers through the 4 previously mentioned guns. The Critical Duty rounds performed the best when penetrating through barriers. They also performed almost as well when being fired straight into the ballistics gel. Around 60% of the ones I tested, across the board, expanded but not as well as a traditional hollow point. Expansion was around 50% to 75% with each round. About 35% to 40% did appear to fully expand or at least very close to it. But they penetrated and expanded in everything I shot.
With the Federal Premium HST rounds and Speer Gold Dot rounds, both performed virtually identical. I think the HST rounds did perform slightly better on expansion though. These rounds in every caliber did fantastic with penetration and expansion, when fired directly into ballistics gel. However, anytime these rounds fired through any barriers, they either had the hollow point clog up with material and barely expanded or the partially expanded on one side of the round. Maybe 30% to 35% across the board in the different calibers, over penetrated and went completely through the ballistics gel, anytime they were shot through a barrier. If clothing was the only barrier they penetrated, they generally did well. Maybe 5% to 10% partially expanded and/or slightly over penetrated the ballistics gel. None went through the gel but a few rounds did stop at the very back of it.
I recently bought a Glock 43X, with my wife and daughter in mind. Since they have smaller hands, the single stack is much easier for them to control. Since the barrel is less than 4â though, I need to do the same tests with that gun. I may also buy some of the Lehigh Xtreme Penetrator, and Xtreme Defender rounds as well. Since expansion doesnât apply to those rounds, my guess is the shorter barrels may not effect the performance of those rounds like it possibly could on the other types of ammo that I have tested. Weâll see how everything goes though.
Imagine blaming recoil for a mag not being properly seatedâŠlol
Well I know one round I won't bother to get for my compact .45!
I need to test the PDX1 again as in the past in rudimentary tests it did well, even in the old 3.6" Glock 36 I used to have.
@@GunSam tnoutdoors9 couldn't get the PDX1 to open in his glock 30
J U G O R N O T đ______đ
Super revealing!
Interesting results for sure.
Last week I shot a 130lb wild hog in the head 4 times the .40 critical defense to put it down. Kinda had me thinking what if that would have been a crackhead
That's a good experience because it shows what physical ability can be with something that does not mentally understand they are dying, so it keeps coming. The .40 is a good round and I haven't tested much of it, but the .45 auto in my opinion is still a good round especially with the right load. Might have taken less shots, who knows.
I now have the argument for a .44 mag just have to convince the wife.
@@redriver6698 Well if she likes to shoot you can make a good argument for the .44 Special ammo in it. "it's cheaper ammo" lol, maybe by a small amount if you talk Critical Defense 20 rounds VS the most expensive .44 Mag ammo in 100 rounds!
Jesus mate, do you live in Winterfell from Game of Thrones! Every vid is snow bound! đš
It's winter from November to April here in Michigan!
It is Winterfell! Love your vids, always great to watch. Best wishes from an ex .357 owner in the UK đ
@@somebloke13 Yeah it's weird how weather works. Where I live is the same distance from the equator as Paris France, but obviously the weather is not the same. Something to do with the ocean currents where east coasts are always cold but west coasts are always warm.
@@GunSam minnesota is worde
@@GunSam worse
Speer Gold dot.
Gold Dot is usually pretty good. Its my 357 and 45 carry ammo.
All the .45 guys are embarrased making excuses right now that it was "too cold" that night and that's why it didn't "expand" đ......đ a lil pecker/gun joke to end it on a high note đ
But the positive note is even with no expansion it would still probably be more effective than a 1.5 times expanded 9mm ;)
" I was in the pool, I was in the pool"
Federal SYNTECH DEFENSE?
Maybe someday.
@@GunSam
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