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.44 Special VS .45 ACP - Hornady Critical Defense
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- čas přidán 16. 09. 2020
- Testing the difference between .44 Special and .45 ACP. Today I am testing the Hornady Critical Defense ammunition. The .44 Special is a 165 gr FTX bullet with a rated velocity of 900 FPS and the .45 ACP is a 185 gr FTX bullet with a rated velocity of 1,000 FPS. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.co...
I wanted to mention something here because it seems to be a common theme in comments. What that is, is that the .45 ACP test I did in February I did with rounds from the same box of ammo as in this test, also the ammo was kept warm. In my winter tests I keep my ammo warm until right before I film to eliminate the possibility of cold ammo affecting velocity. If I had to take an educated guess on the February test being so drastically different than this test, I would say it's just one of those random things. We often see gel tests or tests like Paul Harrell's meat target (both tests capture multiple rounds unlike my tests that capture one round) where some of the bullets expand, and some do not. There's not really any way to know why this happens, but sometimes it just happens.
Love this comment, Gun Sam ... I choose revolvers for a very scientific reason - I like them !!! Keep up the great work.
@@Zona-dw9rp Would like to see a test of 45 Colt V-Crown or Critical Defense against these same calibers.
@@timclaus8313 Sounds good ! How are you ?
@@Zona-dw9rp Pretty good...
One more in a long line of fine comparison tests. Thanks Sam.
Thank you. There will be more to come from .44 Special!
That. 44 spl was slapping that tank pretty hard! I like the fact you could use that round for self defense in your house while knowing it shouldn't over penetrate, and the option to go to beast mode and put in some .44 mag for whatever situation you might need it for. Great video Sam!!👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks.
Either would put a bad guy down
Hank Hill would not approve of your treatment of that propane tank, I tell you what. Good video.
*hwat
Great vid Sam. There is definitely truth to cold weather affecting velocities. It’s not all ammo, as some powders are by far more temp sensitive than others. I have tested some with very little difference and some with a significant difference. Keep up the good work.
Thanks.
Interesting video the 44 special looks to be a decent round but not as accurate though the gun you were using. A suggestion for a future video one we have discussed once before the 45acp vs 45 long colt
Agree Donald, I would like to see that comparison as well as 44 Special and Magnum vs. the 45 Colt as I am a fan of the .45 Colt as well and just wonder how they compare. May have to give Mr. Gun Sam some latitude here as he just got the .44 Magnum, so it might be a while til he gets a 45 Colt. Thanks for all you do Mr. Gun Sam!
Donny,
I've dropped the "long", and now just shoot the .45 Colt. Works just fine ...
Great again Sam!
Really like the Model 69 and was pleased when you got one to add to your collection.
Once you have it dialled in and had more range time with it you will be driving nails in no time!
Thanks. Yes I definitely need the ammo, once I get a die set I should be good for getting enough ammo to sight it in. I already drifted the sights left and up and I think i'm close, but I need to live fire with it to see. Most of my handguns with adjustable sights need to be drifted all the way to the right or left, but the interesting thing is that my fixed sight handguns are dead on, so that's just weird when I think about it.
I carry my 44 Bulldog with Hornady CD 165.Thanks for reaffirming my choice 👍🏼
Thanks for watching!
Your test is very good , it is impossible to get a perfect test every time .
Thank you.
You stacked the holes with the 45 nicely. Maybe it's still getting used to the gun, but you definitely shot the Glock better in this video than your Model 69. I think the 44 Special loads performed OK. I wouldn't say no to using them in a defense gun.
My guess is this Hornady round was probably designed for the Charter Arms 2.5" snubby. The slight drop of velocity would have balanced the penetration and expansion better and been a round comparable to anything else for getting IWBA and FBI penetration protocol success.
@@GunSam Could be. I know that the magnum version was one of Elmer Keith's hot loads. A bullet that big doesn't need to be going super fast. 950-1050 fps would be nice though. The recoil still shouldn't be that bad and it will have more punch behind it without going magnum.
Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ I noticed your shooting the accuracy and cron double action try it single the accuracy should improve it would for me. Glad to see the 44 sp ftx that’s what I put in mom’s 44 but it’s got a 7.5 barrel 🤔
Nice job restainging the jug-r-not bench and adding pieces of wood under the 4 legs to protect against wood rot.
And thank you for another interesting video!
Impressive marksmanship Sam. I doubt I could even come close @ 50 yards.
Thanks. I need to get enough ammo to dial in the sights for me on the S&W. I often have guns where my eyes look through the sights weird, like this Glock has the sights drifted as far to one side as they will go, I don't recall if it's right or left.
Another great video, you are right up there with Paul Harrell IMO and thank you for explaining what sectional density in a way us dummies can understand. Thank you!
Thank you. On that note some people compare me to Paul Harrell in my video style. I find it funny because I was doing all of this maybe 5 years before I heard of him. I watch his videos and very rarely he watches mine which is pretty cool. He comments once every couple of years on one of my videos.
Shoot it again Sam! Great video as always.
Thanks for watching!
@@GunSam you're welcome.
All things being equal, the exercise was a good comparison.
Thanks. I hope to get even better comparisons later on.
Revisiting this video two years later. Never gets old.
You know we kind of think of the 45 Colt when we think of the western frontier but the 44 calibers were really a big deal. We had the 44 Rimfire, 44 American, 44 Russian, 44MH, 44WCF and it just kept rolling with the Special, the Magnum, and Super Mag. Quite a legacy.
I have not seen/read anything that makes Critical Duty ammunition impress me... The only thing I can gather is, it's inconsistent.. great video keep it up!
Thank you. I have actually had better success with Critical Duty over Critical Defense. Probably because all of the Critical Duty ammo is in duty cartridges like .357 Mag, .45 ACP, 9mm+P, .40 S&W, .357 Sig and so on. The Critical Defense on the other hand is sort of all over the place for calibers and performance.
@@GunSam I guess I should have said critical duty / critical defense. And I carry both, I'm just not necessarily impressed with the Hornady line..
With those target groupings and the results of the 'jugornot' either one of those would do a good job!
Thanks. I have a little adjustment to do with the revolver sights, but i'm close.
This is a really interesting video. This is exactly what I have been wondering.
Thanks for the video , both rounds did pretty good
Thank you, thanks for watching.
.44 special tears away meat in the most non repairable way. My favorite round. Bye bye bad guy and ain’t no body putting you back together again
Good comparison that was something I noticed with velocity testing some 44 special was it was getting extremely close to the expansion threshold listed by some of the manufacturers
Thanks. I will continue testing as much .44 Special and Mag as possible so we shall see what I get with .44 Special.
Thank you Sam for this comparison between two of the larger handgun calibers. I would love to have a .44 Special but I don't. Maybe I'll get one someday. I suppose I'm a bit biased as I have 3, .45 acp pistols; a Ruger, Remington R1 enhanced 1911 & and M&P Shield. Both cartridges produced impressive results in my opinion.
Thanks for watching. I really do like .45 acp too
Excellent work! I'm trying to convince myself I can be a tevolver guy...but it can be hard
Thank you. They can be good depending on the caliber.
@@GunSam the perfect revolver would be a scandium K frame with an 8 round cylinder in .327 mag.
Both did well overall, but this is where I'd make the case of .45 Auto being the better cartridge based on capacity. That said, if you got a .44 revolver and you plan to use it for self defense this most certainly is a good way to go. Now if only factory loads would enhance .44 Special like they did .38 Special we'd be in business...
I guess another good comparison would be test some .45 Super out of that G21 vs light .44 Magnum loads.
I like both .45 ACP and .44 Special, but I guess one would still have the old argument that I still find true even with a modern Glock, reliability VS capacity.
@@GunSam I honestly can't remember the last time I've had a Glock malfunction unless I have a conversion barrel in.
That seems to induce some malfunctions.
I don’t know shi! About.44 special but neat to see. The best gun is the one you have with you and train with, I dig em both
Good test for rather typical 44 Spcl/45 ACP LOADS. But, Elmer Keith loaded the 44 Spcl loads a lot hotter; if memory serves me right 18.5 grains of 2400 with his Keith 240 grain semi wad cutter. Why not try some of Double Taps ammo or Buffalo bore ammo. They are your grandpa’s 44 Spcl load!
Old Elmer also blew up a hell of a lot guns
a 44 special is no joke .Elmer designed it to put bad guys and bad animals down hard. 45 acp is like a twin in all aspects putting people down. That's what it also was designed for.The things I prefer is no chance of a jam , heavy round , Accurate at 20 yards , and 1 hit is all that's required . Plus I sway toward revolvers especially big bore . I have plenty of auto's too. But for woods carry 44 special ,I just feel safe with it. Bigfoot comes along , I'll switch to 44 mag , can't do that with a 1911 or glock. Peace.
@@thebigfellar7178 You could always just carry a Glock 20/29/40 in 10mm if you decided you wanted an autoloader with great versatility in ammo options.
Then you can use some really pudloaded 480 ft/lbs ammo in one mag & some real deal 800 ft/lbs stuff in another mag.
You could also just use .40 S&W ammo instead of the light loaded 10mm.
The .40 cal stuff seems to run just fine in a 10mm Glock.
@@pewpewTN I have a glock 20 ,converted it to a 9x25 Dillon . I like the 44 mag after my encounter with the big boy . Funny how it is a big joke till you actually see one of the damn things . Scariest things I have ever seen. When I heard it coming my way I thought it was someone that was lost or something. Made me feel insignificant ,small , I knew who the boss of the woods was. And it wasn't me. My cousin hasn't been back in the mountains since that day. Shook him up good. I just sold #2 of my machine guns SBR's 9mm and 300 blackout , I'm getting a Weatherby rifle ,257 mag . Had one 20 years ago it was a rifles rifle. I traded it for a kawasaki 4 wheeler . I always felt safe with that rifle even in moose country. Everything I shot with it fell or just layed over . I imagine even the Bigfoot would do the same. 4 rounds of 257 mag I'll be fine . 44 mag as a side arm.
Looks like you got a little wet there from the ballistic box.
That splash shield idea is sounding better and better all the time huh lol. 🙃
I honestly didn't notice it. The thing is, I get so dirty and sweaty with these tests and cleanup that I always shower and change right after anyways, so worrying about splash don't matter to me.
The .45 CD does surprisingly well from 3" real gel hornady data I cover it in part 3 of my 9mm vs .45 real data vid next wed
I will have to check it out.
Good and always informative videos. Also good handgun shooting from 50 yards. Take care.
Thank you, you too.
Another great video. Thank you! Hope to see a little 357Sig one of these days! You can borrow my G32 anytime!
Thanks. I am undecided on that. I mean, "if" I ever get a .40 cal cheap, I might get a conversion to the .357 Sig for fun, but outright testing that cartridge is pretty limited. You could get about the same information from a 125 gr Gold Dot .357 Mag as the velocity, diamter and weight are about the same.
I'm a big fan of both cartridges 😎 thanks for the comparison!!
Great channel! I’m looking forward to some magnum on bologna!
Thank you. I have some .44 Mag Hydrashok on the way. It's difficult to find all the ammo I want, but it's a start.
.44spl. used to be my all time favorite cartridge until it got so expensive and hard to find.
Wiz,
Limit yourself to storebought and pay the piper.
Or enrich yourself by handloading.
The choice, yours ...
Nice comparison. I have and use semi autos for different purposes than revolvers. That revolver was obviously not sighted in at 50 yards with the ammo being used.
Its actually not sighted at all. Every ammo has been low and right, but with the ammo shortage I haven't had the chance to adjust the sights, which was fine for what I was doing with the ballistic tests, but longer out the off-ness was amplified.
My 2.5" Charter Arms has a lot of recoil with Warm to Hot 180 gr JHPs you can still take it !!
Hey brother. great video👍 keep up the good work. Waiting for more 44 magnum test.
After watching a lot of videos on CZcams about revolvers. I realized that some people don’t like revolvers because of capacity especially the 9mm fans at the same time they don’t talk about caliber power or effectiveness. I would love from you one day to make a video about caliber effectiveness. The other day I was watching some cop videos were the bad guy gets shot 6 times or more with a 9mm Glock17 some shots hit center mass but the bad guy continues running with a knife trying to stab an officer. If the cop had a 357 mag or a 44 mag I believe it wouldn’t have taken That much a shot or two.
Thank you. Yes I have seen the same thing. The 9mm isn't really designed to expand well, it's just not the most effective cartridge. It seems like 9mm is usually the cartridge that fails a lot. Something like even a .38 Special is just as effective as a 9mm even with half the energy because it's hollow cavities are huge and often made of soft lead which expands well. Determining caliber effectiveness in the real world is difficult to do, but most of the stories that were told about .357 Mag and .45 ACP were real experiences, as where a lot of the current data is from charts which are half the time estimations of effectiveness.
Excellent setup and test sir. Nice presentation.
Great review. Love the 45
Thank you.
What is special 44 mag compared to .44 mag? What is more powerful between the two 44mag. Vs .45acp? I am tempted because of ammo shortage I can only find a lot .45 ammo compared to .44mag anything. I don’t want to shit load of ammo of something just to burn money away for something that is not steady to find ammo for or the more powerful one between these two calibers.
Good Shooting !
Thanks!
Thank you for the very interesting video Sam. Got me thinking a little bit. In my opinion the cold weather that day intensified the density of the lead in that 45 round and the cold water jug impact did not help. Sounds like that could be an interesting test. 1 warm round versus warm water jugs and one cold round vs cold water jugs with same ammo.
I haven't done that sort of test yet, but I have done a test for velocity that way. Left half a box of ammo outside for 2 days when it was 10 degrees out, compared to warm ammo with the other box half. On average I lost about 25 FPS with the cold ammo. All that being said, both the February test and this test used warm ammo from the same box. So the lead wouldn't have been cold. I also use just filled water jugs, so the water is the same year round too for temp.
@@GunSam well the only thing left is the air between the muzzle and water jugs itself but I don't think that could be a factor. I think you're right about it's just one of those things. Thanks again
@@GunSam we'll have to get you a white lab coat and start calling you Professor Sam LOL
@@philiptheriault7953 I never rally thought about that test , I think the bullet will heat up from friction in the barrel . I don't think that would be a big difference ?? I have thought about a cold GUN , & the barrel size , after a few shots the barrel would heat up . I don't recall seeing bullet speed show much difference between a cold or hot barrel . I am not talking about hot or cold AMMO , just the gun .
@@danoneill2846 good point haven't even thought about the barrel yet. I wonder if the pressure of hot air versus cold air could make a difference? I think we're getting way too scientific LOL
RE: Temp the only thing that sounds right is the plastic tip may have been too cold to do it's job well
If it didn't do it's job it acted more like a plug than an expander media .
I know that the Canadian snipers in Afghanistan that made that 1.5 mile shot said they had some American .50 BMG rounds that they let sit in the sun for a while to heat them up to get some extra velocity. But to quote Paul Harrell: "Is it enough difference to make a difference?" Where I live it, can get to -30 below. I carry IWB so the rounds should stay warm so I don't see that this would be an issue. Maybe if you kept your gun in the car....Just a thought.
All I know is that the ammo for both tests was kept warm, so the only variable was air temp. So I don't know really, I mean 17 FPS average more isn't much.
Good shooting...that is a long way . ⭐️
I wanna see the buffalo bore brand head to head I'd be COOL.
If I didn't hand load I would have likely got some of this . The Buff B also looks like a good choice for store bought . To hand load BOTH 44 & 44 Sp you can use the best powder & bullets for the job , also the power level . Sierra Bullets are my favorite , Hornady XTP is almost as good , both are low cost for the quality , handgun and rifle . Not sure why the dis for Hornady , I have had good luck with all mine , the Rifle ammo is VERY GOOD !!!!!!!
Looks like I have Universal, Titegroup, H110 and Ramshot Enforcer on hand. I plan to load light magnums though so I shall see what I come up with when I get the .44 die set.
When I say dis Hornady , I am talking about some of the posters . I get that it's not perfect , all the time , with a short barrel & large bullet you working on the edge .
@@GunSam I use Unique , 2400 & H110 & Win 296 , I think 2400 is the best choice for 44 Mag , as you can down load it & up load 44 sp . The H110 & Win 296 said use full power . They all have a place RE: Power & barrel length . In a rifle H110 & 296 ( same stuff ) is good for full power .
I don't know much about Ramshot Enforcer , that may be your best Mid Range powder . Unique is good also , it is best in a short barrel , It gets very little out of a rifle barrel , might even slow down depending on the load .
Thank you! As someone that carries either caliber during the winter (clothing dependent on which) I worry less now about the .44 Spl being effective should the need arise.
Thanks for watching.
Both good options. Thanks
Thanks for watching. There's a little to be desired but it did okay.
Everyone wants to write off both the .45 acp and the .44 special. This show once again they will leave you with a pretty nice owey if it hits you. And since pistols and revolvers are a defensive weapon....I would say that they would do their job if you do yours.
The .45 ACP is a great weapon even in today's standards. A lot of people will write it off into the same category as antiquated things, like one category that contains revolvers, double barrel or pump shotguns, 1911's and .45 ACP lol. Then the "good" category only contains polymer, 9mm and 5.56, body armor and an ego.
@@GunSam I have several cap and ball revolvers and many rifle muskets. Everything from a .36 to a .577 and I would say they may be antiques but a hit from one is devastating to the human body because of the lack of velocity. Just because something is old doesn't make it less deadly. Great presentation as usual.
Another strong point that bullet placement is most critical.
This looks good , I loaded some 240 gr Horn lead SWC-HP , it did not expand as easy as I thought . I think a light bullet is the way to go , 180 gr lead HP would be good , not sure where I would find it . I will get some of this & try it . They also make 180 gr full wad cutters .
I could drill out the 180 gr full wad cutters , I think they make them in soft lead also .
I think one is about as good as the other. Thank, take care!
Thanks for watching. I would say they are too. Often times there are discrepancies between loads with one manufacturer with the two. Also I have seen low end .44 Special lower power than even the lowest .45 ACP because there's no need to function a slide. But....pushed to their limits both can be in the 600 ft lb energy range.
I bet Hornady uses Oscar Meyer bologna in their testing, thus the difference in results.
I don't know anything about Hornady, but if I had to guess they have a team of millennial gel experts that would reject all testing methods outside of gel, and be like "nah, nah- clear gel bruh".
@@GunSam Millennials and firearms ?
well done. i was surprised at performance of the 44spl round as it has low ballistic numbers. if they got the velocity up closer to 1,000fps i think it get the desired penetration.
Sam the reason it expanded less in Febuary is because the polymer portion of the bullet is harder in the cold and doesn't expand. Velocity has very little to do with it. Pull the polymer out and freeze it, squeeze it with fingers or pliers. Im guessing, seen this happen before with the fancy polymer plug hollow points. Pull plug out of cold bullet and watch what happens.
But, In February the bullets come out of the pocket, are just as warm any other time of the year. What you're saying seems to suggest the bullets were different temperature or stored outside, which they are not.
@@GunSam Well my theory went out the window, unless the bullets in your pocket were not really as warm as you think. I THINK a pocket in 32 degree weather won't be as warm as 60 degrees. It could have just been a fluke. Maybe 1 in 12 or whatever fails to expand . I just don't think a 2 % velocity increase would make such a drastic difference but anything is possible.
Good video comparison, I have always heard the 45acp and 45 spl are about the same in terms of power and your video confirms it. I was curious what type of 44 spl pistol you used? Looked like some kind of s&w but I'm not sure! Great job!
Thank you. It's a S&W model 69 in .44 Magnum.
@@GunSam Ok, that's a L frame isn't it?
A lot of comments on why in the February tests the bullet didn't expand. How many bullets did you shoot ? In this test you shoot only one.
Yeah, I typically do one. I tried to explain this to people that the guys who use gel or other methods and shoot like 5 rounds, they often have 4 expanding and one that didn't, so my previous test was just by chance that one weird round.
You might see "significantly" higher velocities if you kept your pistol in the glove compartment of a truck in Phoenix Arizona.
I actually compiled a list of velocities from many calibers and what I got was actually nearly always higher in the winter. I did however test freezing the ammo itself, and this did drop 25 FPS consistently over the warm ammo out of the same box. But air temp seems to affect the velocity less.
It depends on the powder , some will get more change than others .
@@GunSam based on testers in hot deserts it seems 9mm powders can be way faster in that heat sometimes. Could be cartridge and powder specific to psi
I cannot look at Bar S Bologna at the store now without thinking of ballistics.........thanks.
I did you a favor! 😷
also very good ammo. I would feel quite comfortable with this type of ammo even for outdoor use other than absolutely exotic situations.
Was thinking about which to carry as a side arm for bear protection
In most cases, which of Hornady's loads would you choose in various calibers, Critical Defense or Critical Duty, when available?
If a full size handgun, i'd go with Critical Duty all the way as they perform great in full size handguns, more consistent that Critical Defense. Now the pocket calibers you have to use Critical Defense because there's no Critical Duty in anything smaller/less than 9mm. Now when they overlap such as 9mm, .40, .45, .357 Magnum and so forth, I would always use Critical Duty in a full size gun. I haven't tested Critical Duty in short barrels such as 9mm and .357 Mag, but i'd be interested to test them, in fact I do believe I have about 5 rounds of both in 9mm+P and .357 Mag so I could do a short barrel test, but I might not get over a 3 round average velocity. But, I sort of want to now lol.
@@GunSam Hahaha. Glad to help with suggestions.
Ammunition for personal defense is a mixed bag, in my opinion. Most gun fights end after one or two shots are fired. After that brief exchange of fire the ones involved back away from each other so they can avoid an encounter with the police.
Both calibers are good performers. I would reason that the.45 ACP is better suited to personal defense , while the.44 Special is better suited for home defense, target shooting and hunting.
It depends on the user and what their intended use is. Then there is the issue of cost and availability.
I like your Jug Or Not. Have you ever considered using ballistic gel in the Jug Or Not instead of bologna packs and water jugs?
I have considered gel, but the downside is gel can never replicate bone. Personally, I think ideally the best test medium would be like 6" of gel, then a hard object that simulates ribs, then more gel. The problem is that this would be so labor intensive, I could only do one video a month. The solution is disposable mediums, like water jugs.
Holy crud, nice group with the 45 ACP! Would like to see what the group was with the 44 spl in single action (better trigger comparison to the 45).
I know critical duty uses a different lead to other metal ratio to get the desired "barrier blind" effect.... But I wonder how the cold would affect that material. Maybe being really cold inhibits the polymer tip or lead from acting like it usually should. Maybe try freezing a round and see if it still expands. Great video.
Thanks. I would say the winter test vs this one, the ammo would have been the same temp and only the air temp would be different. But also, I have tested a lot of other ammo in the winter and got expansion.
@@GunSam Yeah... It's weird. So many different things could be the cause. Have a good one.
At least I can still find 44spl and 44mag ammo. Can't find 38spl or 357mag.
Yeah it's been out a lot. The factories still run a constant run of 9mm, .45 and the like, but the more common revolvers cartridges always run at a later date and less are made, so they always sell out and are gone for awhile. This is when we have to count on companies like Underwood and Buffalo Bore. Costs more, but they don't run on the normal big company schedules.
.44 40 is another similar cartridge although I don't think that any double action revolvers are made in it?I understand it may be a bit more powerful than .44 special.not to forget .45 Colt another similar one.the only guns I've heard that the ambient temperature effects the velocity are co2 guns, the hotter the faster, probably because co2 condenses as it gets colder.
I have heard a hollow point expands well if you pack the hollow point with grease. Hydraulics rock ! If someone could put something like KY jelly and seal it lightly to stay in I bet it would really expand well.
Good video as always. That .45 ACP accuracy was really nice. And that .44 Special had quite consistent readings which is always neat, not sure about the accuracy though.
Sam, what is your opinion on non-expanding projectiles for self-defense, particularly the various FMJ bullets one can get? I'm mostly interested in flatnose and ball .45 ACP.
I have sort of the same opinion that the Thompson-Legard stockyard test and Goats at Strasbourg tests came up with. That the only good non expanding rounds for incapacitation need to be .45 caliber and above. A ball .45 ACP is about as effective as a .38 Special+P hollow point, and a little less effective than a 9mm+P hollow point, but still really good. I feel like the fluted and polymer bullets are gimmicks.
@@GunSam Thank you very much. I asked somebody at the local range (though this is the old continent and people don't work much with expanding projectiles on the civilian market) about flatnose stuff because there's not a whole lot about it online, at least nothing I could find at that point. They said it is similar in effectiveness to a hollow point which felt questionable to me. Have you done or seen any tests of flat nose projectiles?
I have heard IMR say that some powders are sensitive to temperature
Great video. I have special needs and love bologna.
temp affects lead's malleability
warmer temps allow lead to deform easier... temp affects lead far more than steel or brass
My guess of the poor expansion in February would be harder than spec lead. If you have any more of the same Lot #, you could re-test in warmer weather.
Good one .
New camera? Thumbs up great vid
Thanks. I don't know how to answer the new camera thing as I did get a new one 6 months ago and have been using it since, but no new ones more recently than that.
@@GunSam for some reason this video is more crisp than other ones. Maybe i did something to my phone
Mr. Gun Sam, could the 32 degree temperature of the water just offered greater resistance density then compared to I'm guessing around 70-80 degrees for the ambient/water temperature where you are today which may have allowed less water density and more bullet expansion....just speculation. Thanks, sir
Water is same temp year round. I keep it indoors until right before testing.
Air temperature is almost certainly a myth however I think that altitude would affect bullet speed?take a .44 special to the Dead Sea,which is said to be the lowest point on Earth(obviously not counting under the sea.The Dead Sea is in the Great Rift Valley a rip in the Earth causing dry land to be under mean sea level) and then to the summit of Mt Everest and I speculate that the Everest shot would have a greater velocity due to the lesser air resistance?
People get really high velocity readings on mountains, but also in deserts for some reason. Where I shoot is really low like 625 ft elevation, as I pinpointed the exact area on google maps. Air temp doesn't effect handgun velocity at 5 yards, I do know that as I have tested the same ammo in the same gun from the same box of ammo, and some even shoot faster in the winter than summer, but overall no difference. I did freeze ammo at 15 degrees, same box as hot ammo and tested, there was about 20 FPS less with the frozen ammo. Now the real thing is, is that I do believe that air temp does effect velocity, but we are talking the velocity a rifle might be at 100, 200 yards+ being slower in cold air. Something that typical handgun distance will never have an effect.
@@GunSam deserts in the USA are frequently quite high up infact the only ones which spring to mind are at sea level,at least a bit of them,are the Namib, the Sahara, the one in Peru and Chile, can't remember it's name, and the Arabian but I'd guess that the land rises sharply from the sea so most of the desert is high up?
Life changing
How about a series of .44spl v.s. .45LC?
Kindly test 40 cal. 165 grain 130 grain ammo vs 45 acp 180 grain 200 grain vs ballistic gel and watermelon
Ballistically it looks very much just shooter preference, semi vs wheel gun
Anyone on the receiving end of either one of those rounds. Is not going to be able to tell any difference.
Give us a recoil comparison.
Expansion of the 45 isn't velocity based. That's not enough difference. It is likely related to the warmer temperature, however. Chances are, the warmer copper was able to expand easier.
To check this, you would have to keep the ammo warm (inside your shirt for example), until time to shoot the box, while outside temperatures are low.
This is what my uncle and his fellow soldiers did in Korea when they carried the 30 carbine. Ammo inside the parka until needed. He said it worked if you did that.
P.S. just read your lead. If you keep the ammo warm until firing, ignore what I said.
That's what I do in the winter. I keep the ammo on body to warm it it.
I love your channel even tho 'defense' ammo does not really interest me much.. it is all defense ammo to me. All my handguns are pretty accurate.. I happen to have a few 1911's and I have an Uberti 44 spl 4 3/4" that is crazy accurate. I handload... have been for many many years. Always cast bullets (and coated) in my handguns. The loads I use for the guns are.. 44 spl using 250 grains SWC at right around 850 fps... 45 acp using a 200 grain SWC at just under 1000 fps.
I like the penetration test but I think either one would go through a human.
Were the rounds you shot last winter at room temperature, or were they allowed to get cold. I know that lead actually softens at room temperature. If the winter rounds were cold, they would be harder, and that could explain their failure to expand.
In the winter tests I always keep the ammo in the house at 70 degrees, and when I go out to film I am shooting within 10 minutes after getting out of the heated car, I also keep the ammo in a sealed container that holds all my gear. It's safe to say the ammo wasn't that cold.
@@GunSam Kills that idea.
Any chance of getting a weight on the bullets after you measure them for expansion?
I usually don't because I don't have a scale for that, and I guess I just don't see the need for it. I see a lot of people do it, but I just don't feel the need. I guess the reason I think this way is that there are always weight discrepancies from bullet to bullet, so lets say I shot a "185 gr" bullet and after the fact said it weighed 183 gr. Most ballistic guys would say it lost 2 gr, but from my way of looking at it, this might not be true, might not have lost anything. The only way I think I would weigh them is if I was hand loading rounds I tested and weight just the bullets myself to make sure each bullet I loaded for the test were all identical weights.
should have used a roast LOL
Revolvers......... they just Feel right in the hand. My wife loves her bulldog 44 special ultra light and shoots 1 handed with no issue with recoil. I would NEVER give my petite wife a small caliber just because SHE is small. Big bullets for small wife. Why? Element of surprise to any coward thinking she is helpless POW TO THE EVIL ONES.
I am really enjoying the tests...let me ask yousomathing ....I have a S&W 620 4in 357 and I love it....I am much more accurate with 357 then 38 spec......can it be a noticeable difference or am I going crazy ....lol
Thanks. I am typically more accurate with .38 Special, but in a technical sense both would be the same for accuracy at close range. At further range you might do better with .357 Magnum. But if I had to take an educated guess based on all the ammo available, I would say that as a whole the .357 Magnum could be more accurate as most of it is jacketed ammo, with true thick jackets. This will allow for the rifling to take better and for it to be reliably accurate. If you shoot .38 Special jacketed ammo than this should be the same, but getting into plated and lead bullets we can see a decline in accuracy especially with lead, if the bullet is not oversized enough and if the charges are too hot. Example, a .357" diameter bullet loaded hot will burn the base and cause leading and poor rifle gripping. If it's a light load with a .358" or .359" or even .360" than the accuracy should rival a jacketed bullet.
The 357 I've fired the most is my Ruger Blackhawk 6.5" and it definitely shoots 357 more accurately than 38 special. All guns are different though.
I don't cast my own lead bullets , people that do say bevel base ( common ) bullets that are too hard don't work well . A flat base that is about 8-12 or so hardness ?? is far better . I shot some cowboy match BullX I think , is hard cast but nearly flat base & shoots very well , rounded flat nose ( good for levers ) . When I load low cost , hard cast SWC Bevel base ( common ) they work OK , not great , but good enough .
@@GunSam thanks for your take ----I think you know your stuff
My cynical guess is that with your prior box of 185 gr CD, Hornady might have mixed up the cores. Maybe they used the harder core of Critical Duty by mistake when making the bullets. Or the jacket didn't get scored properly. The 44 did dmfsirly well. I was hoping for
.70" expansion, but i guess you can't have everything. May i suggest the 200 gr Gold Dot in each cartridge for the next test?
I would agree, however, this .45 ACP ammo was out of the same box as the previous test. Also, I just tested the 200 gr Gold Dot bullet a could videos back, but it was loaded by Underwood.
@@GunSam - Well, then that is not a good sign. It means inconsistent bullets from Hornady. Unless a Critical Duty round got into a Critical Defense box. Which should not happen. But i suppose it can.
@@troy9477 I probably would have noticed that as it would be significantly longer of a bullet.
@@GunSam -Are they longer? Never had occasion to look at them side by side. Never bought either one. Just some XTP's once
Most common ............45 acp is like 230 grain and 44 special is like 240 grain.
But these are the only weights of each in Critical Defense.
@@GunSam I understand. You tried to get similar weights. I like more realistic weights that are more common.
Now you should get a 460 Roland barrel and compare 44 mag with the Roland. Its only money so no biggie.
That's true, it's only money. I should order all of the performance center handguns in one go, because it's just money.
Any chance you can spray that propane tank with a fresh coat of paint?
I sort of leave it alone because it's always this plan to get real steel, then I never do. I want to paint it red because of the changing climate here, that color would work all the time.
You know what would be interesting is typical HP loads in 7.62Tok v.s.9mmMak. Maybe throw in a 1895 Nagant.
So Russian bots do exist.
@@patrickbolthouse7354 Chortle
:D
Well, i'm sure it would be interesting lol. I'll just go out and spend a few grand to satisfy the 7 people on my channel who might be interesting in such a test.
@@GunSam LOL, although with the prices of those guns I bet it could be done for less than 1K. :D
@@mkshffr4936 I have seen the import 7.62 and Mak pistols for on average $300 each, but I have no clue on Nagant prices so that's why I came up with the high numbers. I honestly have never looked into the Nagant so I just assumed they were more expensive or rare as it's not something I see a lot on here.
A lot of dumb ass comments but very nice comparison. Nice
Thank you.
Do even practice with revolvers ? Kit for Kit please ?
I honestly am not sure what you wrote. Is it English?