7 Phases of Shared Fantasy: Why Narcissist Needs YOU
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- This is a summary of my shared fantasy-dual mothership framework for the narcissist’s intimate interpersonal relationships.
7 Stages of shared fantasy:
1. Co-Idealization (lovebombing, introject and narcissist all good because he owns object)
2. Dual mothership in a shared fantasy (recreation of childhood)
3. Need to reenact separation leads to mental discard which results in narcissistic injury (narcissist not omniscient, his judgment was wrong)
4. Devaluation of external object to restore grandiosity (make ego-congruent sense of the discard of an hitherto idealized object).
5. Devaluation of introject via splitting defense (introject now all-bad, narcissist grandiosely all-good)
6. Real life discard: projection of introject to you in an attempt to integrate it with external object. Projection-integration fails owing to abandonment anxiety triggered by introject inconstancy and your refusal to own split, all-bad introject. Devalued, split, all-bad introject remains as internal object, in narcissist's mind. This creates anxiety (bad object internalization-introjection)
7. The only way to reintegrate this internal object and reduce anxiety is by re-idealizing the external object and the corresponding introject. This is impossible if the narcissist has been mortified. He then departs from his previous version and reinvents himself which allows for self-idealization (grandiosity restored).
Find and Buy MOST of my BOOKS and eBOOKS in my Amazon Store: www.amazon.com/stores/page/60...
As a retired therapist, I can tell you you would pay $k’s for psychodynamic training by other institutions which Dr. Vaknin has freely offered us! Thank you! Btw, I trained at a highly regarded university so I know what I’m talking about here.
Yes I agree. 👍 Being able to tap into these videos at an given time have truly helped me.
I trained in psychodynamics in Europe...its super pricy courses
@@onemightyandstrong8293 I don't think you're that dumb. So why is it that you don't want to think that Sam Vaknin is sharing wisdom in his videos? To me, it looks like you're trying to devalue him? He's got a lot of viewers to that's value in the real world. What's up you?
@@TheMattjudo26 Matt, I appreciate you, but I don’t even respond to ppl like this angry, embittered person above since I’m now retired. Lol. I was making a valid point of reference regarding my comment as I trained at The University of Michigan and it has been rated the #1 School of Social Work since before I graduated in 1989. My training also happens to be heavily weighted in psychodynamic theory as I have additional Post Graduate Psychodynamic certification, so I know more than most psychiatric social workers. I’m confident in my comments because I was offered the best education and field internships under the best providers in Ann Arbor and NYC, couple that with 35 years experience in acute care hospitals, I know what the hell I’m saying when I comment about Dr. Vaknin. Wish I could join him in Europe next week for his guaranteed phenomenal free conference. Who else offers this quality of presentation with his kind of qualifications? I know the answer to this too: no one! Lol.
@@5thdimension954 I know you are basically above that. I'm not though. I wish I was and in fact I need to be more wise in how I spend my time and energy, but mud wresting pigs has been a vice of mine. I'm 48 yrs old and considering going back to school for a psychology degree, and basically for the sole reason that I found Sam Vaknin's videos. I was dating a covert Narc at the time, so it has been very salient to suffer and then to have all my questions about why and how answer and then to go on to experience knowing what she would do and why before she even did it. Who would have thought two Narcissists would team up and make that happen for someone they don't even know! Hey I should mention to that hearing you talk about your qualifications and talking about the real world value of Prof Vaknin's videos has also helped me and I want to thank you for that.
I thought for 24 years that I was in a relationship, now It sounds more like taking part in a sick virtual reality game…
🎯
💯
A VR game with an audience of one.
It was 21 years for me. I ❤ Prof Sam Varkins so helpful information.
30 years here 😢
When I was resisting discard, the narcissist said “you re getting difficult, but you re going to trash just as all the others” I think that at some point narcissists are conscious of their disorder.
Yes, they’re conscious they have chosen distrust and hidden hate. It’s a practiced choice learned from their adults (usually mother or mother’s father) at a very young age.
So in a nutshell: They dont live in reality and they cant deal with reality..
Yes
Dealing with this Right now
I'm a 30 year old narcissist and I've become aware of the way I've lied about everything to everyone including my self since I was about 12 years old
The state of discomfort - shame and anxiety - that I have lived in constantly for the last few days is indescribable. It's a feeling of conflict and turmoil in perpetuity. There is paradox between my sense of self and my real self
@@ignatiushazzard please, how did you persuade yourself to become self-aware?
@@tri-infinity9435 destroying my relationship of 6 years to the point I couldn't lie to myself any more.
I'd never have gotten to this point alone, I don't think
My marriage in a nutshell
And don’t forget during the discard, he tells everyone how evil and crazy you are
@@protectthebillofrights93 they live in their own universe… I was replaced 3 yrs after he abandoned me after 30 yrs of marriage and 3 kids. He has NEVER spoken to me since. I don’t exist for him anymore. And his kids are adults and all live out of state so he’s free. He blamed me for everything but all behind my back. I thought we were happy for 25 yrs, now I think it was all BS. I raised his kids, helped him with his career moves and was his social director. He was cheating on me, which I found out years later. It was all a big sham. I’m doing ok, but I will never be the same. And I will never trust anyone with my life again.
This makes sense if you were abandoned by your mother or abused by your mother. The idealisation phase is like getting that unconditional love fix that you never received from the mother.
My mother died when I was 17 months and a half. Now I understand why The love bombing phase is very addictive. Even when it feels to good to be true I felt into it big time . I realised now after what I have achieved in my life despite the lack of unconditional love and despite a narcissistic husband whom I divorced
I managed to build my house, have a job, studied, and look after my kids and have a good relationship with them and keep my finances in good shape despite my struggles. And I have great friends and I am healthy physically and mentally. I am coming a long way and so eager to learn more
Those videos are god send. It all makes sense .
Time to process and enjoy life.
@@marinettecachin5931❤
I can TOTALLY relate to that.
Now I understand why my ex narc made me feel like I was his mother.
Our union wasn’t love either. It was a shared fantasy.
Wow. Once you can put words to what you have experienced, it’s so much easier to move on.
Thank you for explaining, Sam. Your video has provided so much closure.
Having the precise language to understand is the key to the door for our escape :)
I feel your comment so much! Mine too makes me feel like I am his caretaker. He cheated on me with two hookers spent 100k at the casino and he has been out of the house for a year. I plan to submit divorce papers March but he wants to move back in. He literally pays 0 where he lives and they want him out! I refuse to take him back! I’m not his mommy and I don’t need another child to raise!!!
This is so helpful. I knew something was wrong with the relationship, but I didn't know what. I would often tell my ex (before he was my ex), "I'm not your mother! I'm your romantic partner. Please stop acting like you're my child." It was crazy. Now I understand how this came to pass. So very helpful.
Só TRUE
Mine used to joke I was his carer. We had a lot of shared fantasy. I think that is what hooked me. But it's hard to keep contact with him when he goes on and on about false self, deception and lies which I'm not all about. Currently going no contact
Framework of "Shared Fantasy" concept of Nacissist within intimate and interpersonal relationships - to reexperience his childhood trauma "safely" - makes sense perfectly in his mind. Stages:
1. Coidealization - "Love bomb," "idealization": The narcissist gets you addicted to an idealized image of yourself (hall of mirrors), and in idealizing you, he idealizes himself whereby he "owns" a perfect object, you, in a form of a perfect snapshot, which he internalized, which makes him perfect. He interacts with this perfect "snapshot" of you, all good and perfect, never the real you.
2. Dual Mothership - You become a Substitute Mother in his mind - and in turn, he mothers you. He tests you with abuse and will you still idealize him? He idealizes you in turn and loves you unconditionally. Why? His own mother was bad, and he never got to separate from his own mother or individuate so he could not become an adult. This is his opportunity to get and give the good mothering he never got and to separate from you and realize his potential.
3. Undoubtedly he will begin to find fault with you, and fail you. The "Mental discard" comes first, which creates abandonment anxiety and narcissistic injury that he made a mistake choosing you!! His judgement was less than perfect.
4. In order to restore his sense of grandiosity and self worth, "Devaluation of the external object" occurs - you in real life - he looks at you in a new negative way - this restores his confidence in himself.
5. The problem remains that the Gap between the "snapshot" perfect image of you and the real devalued you - this divergence creates anxiety in the narcissist. So what does he do to rectify? He splits you. (Splitting defense good/bad, black/white, right/wrong, with me/ against me - "Dichotomous thinking"). To reconcile, He devalues your "snapshot" and as a result he can now see himself as all good. You are now the Enemy with no redeeming feature. He is grandiose and perfect now!! You are all bad, stupid, ugly etc...
6. The Discard - he still holds your devalued snapshot in his mind, only now he wants to give it back to you, a constant reminder of negative things. He wants you to agree to the terms of your devaluation as he sees it, and wants YOU to own it as bad and unworthy. "Codevaluation." He usually fails. Introject constancy. He is emotionally invested in the introject. Desperate attempt to separate from you. This ulcer torments him. A negative internal object constantly reminds him of his imperfection.
7. Hoovering: reduces his anxiety, reidealizing you and reidealizing your snapshot....and now everything is perfect so he is perfect! But now separation has failed!
8. Next Partner - repetition compulsion -
9. Mortification breakdown - suicidal thoughts - restoration of all new identity
Thank you🙏🏼
Thank you very much!
This us really really great description!!! Thank you
@@schadelharry4048 No. No normal person would act in that way. Maybe reconsider your relationship with this "weird, self absorbed woman" that you believed in anyhow
Thank you so much for typing this out! I have been feeling sad for a time, trying to figure out what happened to this relationship (with my ex). Now I understand that he was a narcissist and all the rest of the craziness is suddenly making a lot of sense. How liberating!
I feel so much power that I know him better than he knows himself. I am free but he it not. We are the winners ❤❤❤
❤
the best thing is still to hope he can get through all the delusion so he can also be truly happy. thats the real winning. when everyone wins.
Victims tend to copy certain behaviors from their narcissistic partners, believing that they know others better than themselves is one of them. You likely have more healing to do
I went through all of this, it was one of the most painful experiences of my life. The push pull devaluations stressed me so badly, I began having health issues with my nervous system. The put downs were so hurtful. I finally told him I do not agree with what he says about me and I left him. I am now working to rebuild my life but it has been hard. I cried today thinking how far I’ve come, it’s been 7 months and I feel strong enough to file for my divorce now. My goal has been working on the woman in the mirror so I don’t make this mistake ever again. My biggest lesson is learning to listen to my inner knowing and taking things slow enough to discern what’s happening around me.
I'm going through this right now, 3 yrs later and SEVERAL hoovers and discards. He can't seem to let me go and has treated me worse and worse everytime he has got me back. This all makes sense he sees the snap shot of me in his mind when im gone, i am the introject. He hates himself that he can't let go and projects that hatred onto me. I've finally moved on with someone new, no more abuse. He's currently crumbling in narcissist injury with the realisation I'm never going back, he has finally lost control!!
They unravel eventually.
Thank you for explaining. Now I understand why my ex husband still hates me so much, 10 years after our divorce.
I left and refused to reconcile after our divorce. Hell broke loose after that and he displayed a cruelty and vindictiveness that I wasn’t subjected to while married, nor thought humanly possible.
He has been on a consistent downward spiral since I left.
He used to tell me that I’d never make it without him.
He was very wrong about that.
Well done on getting out. Take good self care of yourself. All best wishes with your new life and knowledge.
I wonder how fast after break-up did he hoover? I broke up in April 2022 (this year) and no sign of hoovering. He was a textbook narcissist clinically diagnozed. But I wonder why he didnt hoover, did he realize stuff?
@@olgaa8441 not all Narcissist hoover. He may have realised that you are not so easily manipulated or you remind him of deep rooted shame he wants to bury. He undoubtedly has a new supply or several new supplys that's giving him the attention he thinks he deserves. Your definitely not out of the woods yet, Narcs can hoover years later.. Thank your lucky stars he hasn't done so yet. Hopefully by then you'll be strong enough to ignore. Best of luck don't go back!!
He is so generous with sharing his work. No doubt he is the leading expert on this subject. Learning so much. I wish I knew this before I married a narcissist as I have gone through all of this with my husband whom I’ve given most is my life to. I am getting a divorce.
This framework perfectly explains my experience. The cognitive dissonance created in the shift from being idealized and treasured to being ugly and despised is sheer torture. After sharing the most intimate details of our lives, I’m now dead to him. Discard has left me feeling depressed and worthless. The void he left after ripping himself entirely from my world will take some time to heal and refill. But heal i will. Your videos help me understand that this relationship was always meant to be doomed and i couldn’t have saved it. I can only save me.
Me 2 the same ...trying to keep him away from me .he's hovving stage but I know it won't last. Good luck and hugs
@@joannastanden5816 Hugs to you. We’re going to be okay 🩵
My natc ex did literally the same thing to me. In fact the last text I received from him was “you’re dead to me”. Why? Bc I went to dinner and drinks with a female friend of mine and that’s makes me a ho wanting attention from men. It’s sick and it’s twisted.
@@DailyGrindRedefined They blame us even for making them hate us. And they hate us because they changed who we were. It’s an absolute no-win situation for us.
Good luck, I’m rooting for you. We’re stronger than the narcissist. 🩵
As a layperson, I only had to look up a few words to receive a full understanding of what you were sharing. Overall you have wrapped up my 40 years of trying to understand the Jekyll & Hyde person I had been living with. At the moment my mind is overwhelmed but I have clarity. It truly was a circle existence of a living hell. Thank you for putting puzzle pieces of my understanding together & this will help me move on.
So true!!!! Thank you. My ex-narcissist has repeatedly said "I didn't make a mistake when I married you." And then he infers with that that the reason we had to divorce was because of me, definitely not due to any flaws in his ability to choose a partner and certainly not due to any actions on his part that would have contributed to divorce. He must uphold his sense of his eternal inculpability for anything.
In every relationship, my ex had a substitute readily available to replace me. A best friend, a business partner/mentor, a lover, etc. It always felt like I was relegated to the back burner with someone else taking first place. Now I’m beginning to understand why.
A lot of selfish people do that, not just narcissists. They become unhappy in a relationship but don't want to be alone or to suffer through a break-up all by themselves, so they get a new lover first and then they leave you with the shock and heartbreak. It's extremely cruel, but very common.
Makes sense. He’s said i wasn’t who he thought i was 😳 I’ve never changed a bit. I just didn’t add up to his “snapshot”
Yup she said I "changed" when all I did was try to be more loving and understanding
Thank you Sam. I feel I understand myself now like never before in my lifetime so far seemingly surrounded by narcissists. I'm not broken, I simply needed to understand and heal. Only through such understanding / education can healing begin. Sam you are my greatest teacher so far and I thank you with everything I am and continue to be.
this is why he eventually discarded me because he idolized me as mother then discarded me to be rid of his original bad mother....
My nickname was "nanny". He once admired so much that I was so caring and tender. All of a sudden there came the discard. I didn't expect it. I was devastated. Of course he has mother issues which he didn't mention in the beginning. I don't know what I did wrong. I am trying to deal with the discard.
The worst part is knowing that I am being slandered to friends and his family. That has cost me some anguish. Especially in light of the immense amount of emotional and spiritual energy that I put into this relationship. And so many prayers.
No wonder they are such deeply troubled unhappy people. I would hate to live with that in my mind it must be complete torment. Feel sorry for them. Such a brilliant insight thank you.
THANK YOU!!! Your video actually put me at ease and I couldn feel the physical and mental tension lessening. I actually smiled. It's not ME. And I am currently about 5 days into no contact. I have value. I am flawed like everyone else but I love MYSELF. I can't fix someone's broken brain. I can only resolve to walk away and learn from the experience while taking solace in the fact I am the one who caught on to the shared fantasy and discarded him. Once again, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. I'm going to live my best life now.
Thank you so much for this explanation Professor Vaknin. Brilliant! Every word makes sense. This is exactly my experience from start to finish. He couldn’t hoover me back so he rushed into a new marriage to play the game all over. We have work to do on ourselves for falling victim to narcissism but it is indeed sad to think of the mind prison they are caught up in, with no real escape. I can’t begin to imagine the level of trauma that causes this condition. For me it is a serious worry that I would attract a similar partner in case I entered a new relationship. This is mind and life destroying stuff.
Thank you from my heart for educating us. You are indeed a gift.
My bf said I’m exactly like his mother the other day 😂 guess that’s why he doesn’t show me intimacy anymore. This is a great video.
Ewwww, that sounds horrible! I hope he's already ex by now.
He told me I was just like his mother. He didnt know me beyond the avatar he created in his head
You are still together? Why?
I’m still with him because I love him. He was my best friend too. He cuddled me, kissed me, slept with me, complimented me and wanted to spend so much time together. Now he won’t even hold my hand. It’s so hard to leave because the beginning is so perfect. Now it’s been 10 months of torture. I’ve told him 20 times I need the affection back because my needs aren’t being met. He does the word salad dance, says it’s my fault and said I hurt him just like his mother did and he doesn’t trust me. Straight out of the narc playbook. I just can’t explain the weakness you feel after they do this to you… thats why it’s so hard to leave. We’re all paying for their mommy issues.
@@Sam-tz7cd run!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why is that not part of the core curriculum in every school worldwide. So very much suffering could be avoided with this knowledge prior to getting involved with these sick predators.
Schools and world wants you to be a slave.
As someone who had a relationship with a narcissist. why some of us tend to forget what they have done and even at times see him as all good again? He has hurt me deeply, I know he has done things I could never forget, I might forgive him but not forget. I know I can't live and share a normal life with someone that has betrayed me and will never trust again. however why do I tend to be polite, don't hate him or have ill feelings towards him. Is like at times I forget what he has done. In order for me to keep him away, I have to consciously remind myself of what he did. Not sure if I'm explaining myself well enough.
Why can I just hate him? I wouldn't allow this behavior with anybody else why do I put up with his? The only thing that comes to my mind is that I'm insane as well.
I feel stuck because I can't separate myself completely because I always go back thinking that he is nice. Of course he behaves like the most wonderful person in the world, the perfect partner. But I know he can not be trusted as a partner.
This is my experience too
Stockholm syndrome? Loving your abuser, because you loved your mother who also abused you
It's called a trauma bond 😢
I feel exactly the same like you..
La même chose ici
This kind of abuse creates such a mess mentally within me. Your videos help me clean-up. Clear the mess and put things in their place. Thank you for making sense of this very sick abuse
This explains the hoovering, the re-idealisation after a physical discard. I asked my narcissist partner to leave after having enough of the drama, gaslighting, selfish and emotional less interactions and constant disrespect in our relationship. Sam, you explained so well why I felt like his mother figure. She too was narcissistic and gaslight her son from a young age. He too was the scapegoat in the family. He is emotionally attached his mother and not in a good way. He made life difficult and I ended up having to discard him. After three months came the first hoover. It triggered my feelings which I know was the trauma bond I had with him. But, I realise now from your video, he tried to re-idealise me because of loneliness or lack of ideal intimate partners. The kicker is he tried to create a situation - a celebration event - whereby he would idealise me into reality so he could idealise himself. But, I didn’t buy into his game (we were over) and this in turn caused rage, narcissistic injury and so began the devaluation again. And, as you described, I believe he has mortified my avatar in his mind and projected and blamed me for his failings in his last message to me on social media blaming me for something that was his responsibility then calling me a bad person then he blocked me. The games they play are cowardly. I’m hoping this is the end and I never have to be triggered by this person ever again. I am giving myself all the love and empathy now that, once upon was feeding the narcissist, like feeding a baby, but no more…
…i lived the same experience. World by world .
Like many of us I'm from the same club....disgusted by how predictable they are....poor people....I still didn't complete my grieve...all this other's life stories help a bit to stop "dreaming" and wake up to reality WITHOUT narc.
Yeah, me too, after 18yrs of marriage but it’s a tough road to heal on.
@@lisalawtonlyons I’m happy that you are free. The path is a hard one but can’t be any worse than living with a narcissistic vampire ! Revive, strive and thrive that’s our next mission in life. I wish you all the very best 🙏🏻🌺
Well explained,thank you
The Narcissist is like Peter Pan and every "intimate partner" is his Wendy in Nevernever Land.
That is a perfect description. That is exactly what it feels like to be in a relationship with them.
That and Tinkerbell she is a false reality like porn and that because Peter pan didn't want to grow up he chose to chase and follow a fairy , instead of having a true relationship with Wendy.
that is such an amazing way to describe it.
I KNEW IT!! " PETER PAN SYNDROME".
I KNEW IT!! " PETER PAN SYNDROME".
Wow, this totally explains it. I have been living this nightmare and now I totally understand why it always felt like a rollercoaster. Makes perfect sense. I thought I was going crazy, finally getting out, but it’s difficult, because he doesn’t want to accept it.
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us mr.Vaknin ! I was abused since childhood and then i have been married for 7 years with a veryyy abusive person . I was destroyed on so many levels that it felt like slow dying , i didn't even have strength for talking anymore . Now i'm divorced for almost 2 years and i haven't been able to afford medical help for me but then i found out for your chanel , you are helping me a lot , THANK YOU ! Greetings from Bosnia 💙
@@SM-gx3ho thanks for support , stay strong !
Stay strong! Keep learning and growing on this channel. You’ll be alright.
@@frostymossdivination thanks ☺️
@@godsgotme5650 ☺️
Td7
Wow. I’ve listened to more videos than I would like to admit to about narcissism. Thank you!! This video made me see things so much clearer.
I was listening to the professor ´s explanation of the fonction of narcissist, and I am convinced that Narcissists are really defectives products . They are very Ill in their heads . At working place and in my personal life’s I fell to many narcissists , one woman in my experience professional , she is so wicked and jalouse . IShe is not competent at work but she attacked me invented nonsence to put me down , very disgraceful .
To order not to be polluted by the garbages I gave up to work there .
If possible , walk away from the Ill personnes ! We have the choice even give up the opportunity of work because the health is the most important !
Yes, I knew nothing about this subject , and am still in recovery from my experience with a narcissist. It’s a great relief to now have some understanding of what took place. So grateful especially as I can’t afford professional help. Thanks Sam !
I love this guy, he wants us all to learn.
Sam Vaknin has helped me TREMENDOUSLY since I found him two years ago. Because of him I feel not immune, but in control when encountered by love bombing. But I learned two very important things in the process...
1) Not all of the people who share some of these pattern are narcissists. An example of this would be people with "Fearful Avoidant" insecure attachment style. This comes from similar traumas as NPD such as physical and sexual abuse and enmeshment. A lot of the people who share these patterns could be effectively treated with a therapy such as EMDR which works much more quickly than Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and is helpful around trauma where CBT can sometimes fall short.
2) The second, more painful reality is that even with people whose hurtful behavior can be reversed by therapy we really have to keep ourselves safe. In some cases we can draw a line in the sand that they continually work hard with both of you in therapy or you leave. But for this to be effective they have to really WANT TO try and frankly, we do too. We have to change ourselves just as much. We are part of the dynamics in both cases. The cases in which this happens, that both people put in the work is smaller than we would hope. So often breaking up is the only good answer.
The upside to the reality that some people who share the patterns of people with NPD but can change is that you can effectively co-parent with them. Learn a lot about the patterns, however so you don't end up confusing the two when you should be going "No contact" with a Narcissist.
Im wishing you all success in learning the patterns in unhealthy relationships, but more importantly, learning the patterns IN YOURSELF. My healing didnt happen from looking at other people. Its happening by doing the harder stuff. Looking at me.
Wow I m trying to understand this complex situation in narcissist head… mind blowing, yet now I feel sorry for a person who has to deal with this whole life. Thank you professor ❤
This was the best video I have ever watched! This is my ex girlfriend to the T!! She moved on to a new supply. I feel bad for the guy. But I'm staying out of it. I'm sure he wouldn't believe me anyways.
Super clear. I could even follow this along whilst thinking of my own situation and pinpoint exactly the stage it is now stuck at. Its amazing for me to see it so simply when for years have been in a state of utter confusion every day. Wow I really appreciate this video.
Sharing his videos with my psycholgy class at SNHU. Thank you Sam.
It really clarifyes it all, and why the keep comming back, even when they , in the meantime, has had a New intimate partner whom they also have discarded. But its makes it at lot easyier to ignore their hoovering once you understand that your NOT the object og their love and affection, but mearly a way to attemt to heal.
The most incredible explanation 🤩
Every time i watch your videos i feel that my life experience is being X-ray, as a result i can see more and more details, sometimes is depressing
That's why the term gaslighting is used so much among narcissists. Any challenge to their fantasy delusional reality feels like gaslighting, but when they can't get agreement from the bad mother or bad other that they are bad, it is challenging their introject constancy preventing them from healing. They are codependent with the introject. The desire to reject the family is actually a healthy response, but they can't leave it. Co-idealization leads to co-devaluation which causes suffering but he can't get rid of the introject because his mental object world (delusional reality) is all they see. Re-idealizing is the only way to repair, but then what? How do you get them out of the delusional reality? Mortification? How does that work without suicide?
Dear Professor Vaknin, I am so thankful I fell upon your channel. You have given me the inspiration, courage and strength to take my ex husband who is an extreme covert narcissist and also a divorce attorney back to court to fight for my freedom, justice and children after 6 years of being very afraid of him. He has manipulated, deceived, preyed upon my vulnerabilities and abused his powers not only regarding my children and I, but the judicial system as well. I am so thankful for your knowledge and educating women such as myself.
@@smithhamilton3024 Thank you this is not going to be an easy battle but one that is purely based on facts. I’ve Learned so much from Prof Vaknin, Im extremely grateful ❤️ I wish I knew this 20 years ago when I first met him and he represented me as a rape victim
@@rahmasamir909 Thank you, I am representing myself after dealing with 3 useless attorney in the state I reside in. I've learned they all swim in the same pond, drain you financially and no one wants to fight with him. So I will take all the support and courage you are sending 🥰
@@rahmasamir909 thank you I will certainly reach out if I feel I need to be more educated in certain areas. I’m a scientist so I’m pretty calculated, methodical and factual I just need to keep taking deep breaths so my anxiety doesn’t take over me. Sending love and positive thoughts your way thank you again
@@fulloffiresagittarius2944 Girl me too! I'm in Arizona and it has been absolute insanity in the family court system. Tens of thousands to lawyers for absolutely nothing in return. Judges that allow him to abuse and even reward him for it. It puts the mom and children in such a bad place of having to placate into the Narcs games/abuse just to survive. Such BS. I hope you're not in Arizona and you have better luck on your next round 🍀💖
@@MissAmazings I’m not I’m in Boston. Ugh, i’m sorry for what you’re going through. I hope things turn around for you :) you’re in my thoughts and prayers sending positive vibes your way love
I didn't know how strong mental illness could be until I met a few narcissists out there.
Personally, I've never heard of this term 'shared fantasy' but that's quite the psychoanalysis. Just remember, that if you do happen to get caught in a relationship with one, that their ego's are incredibly frail at the core.
I'd look at this 'shared fantasy' concept as a psychological onion. You have to peel it one layer at a time until there is nothing left of the fantasy other than the individual who created it.
That is what my pastor said regarding helping my wife “peel back that onion.” I am her 3rd husband, still saying her lot in life is still someone else’s fault. She is destroying a beautiful family because she recuses to see someone who can help her.
So co-devaluation was the bit we had to stay til the end for?
Worth the wait, very illuminating.
Thank you. This explains nearly everything I've gone through over the last twelve years and didn't understand what was going on.
This is the interesting videos, now I know why the Hoover came even tho I could feel the love wasn’t genuine
This makes a lot of sense. It explains many behaviors I've seen. I can particularly recall a certain friendship ending over a small misunderstanding that got blown far out of proportion that I took the night to cool off before responding to. I was tuned into her reactions by then, so I was expecting what I got. I was hoping not to receive the vile projection, name calling accusations, and lashing out, but - at least - this time I was prepared (no, this wasn't the first instance). I walked away that time. It's been 2 years. Educating myself on narcissism and narcissistic abuse has helped me not get the desire to try again like I usually do by now.
I had the same experience a couple of years ago. The falling out was deliberate (I think) and there was horrible defaming stuff on Facebook and an attempt to break up the relationship I had begun with a friend of hers (with jealousy at the heart of the behaviour, I am sure).
Yes the urge to keep trying again is the death knell. There is no true reconciliation. Being able to accept that is like breaking free of an addiction.
I have a child with a narc and cannot get away. My daughter is 6 and I am almost 11 years tied to this monster. I have learned a lot and continue my learning journey, but it feels like it will never end. I continue to pray my brokenness and PTSD from this man does not hurt my daughter. He is also groomer her to be just like him! Ugh!!
What they do to the children is sick
Thank you for giving an insight into those revealing psychodynamic processes of the narcissistic mechanisms
I’m so grateful for you, your work and your commitment to sharing your expert knowledge on this topic. I don’t know where I’d be had I not discovered your channel. Thank you.
Professor Vaknin, is it possible that discard starts at the very beginning of the relationship meaning in narcissist mind he entered the relationship deeply knowing how it's going to end?
Yes.
An interesting observation, the narc I was with, said at the very beginning "Are you sure you can cope with me?" I had no idea what I was embarking on!!
@@colinmitchell6321 yes, there's always a warning at the beginning. The only honest moment in the coming relationship. You only realize you heard this when it's over. I was already "head over heels" when this was said to me. Ehhhh....
@@colinmitchell6321 yep, they tell on themselves ....
Yes they never feel as we do from the start ....
Thank you for this. It explains so much of what was going on in my "relationship," both the role of the narc and my own part. It also lifts the burden of giving the narcs devaluation significance. It was not me; it was her dealing with my introject. I also now see clearly that there is absolutely no point in attempting any kind of reconciliation because the reconciliation would be not with me but with her introject of me, and it would be resting on sand. I can also now begin to understand the sudden, inexplicable discard. I assume a lot of us have the same reaction: at the point of discard: how could you treat me like this after everything I've done for you, all the love I gave you?
Exactly
Yes! Asking the same question!
This makes me so sad😢❤Be gentle with yourself, and others, with STRONG boundaries❤Much love❤Thank you this video really helps❤
Thank you Professor Vaknin, you answered my question about the ‘hoovering’ this is such a valuable video for a survivor imo, understanding the psychology and the mindset of the narcissist helps us move forward detach and our abandonment anxiety too. Many thanks 😊
Thank you very much, I finely understand why the narcist does what he does. That helps me too except and move on with my life without the narcistic partner.
Well this explains the very violent and repeated “push, shove and pull” back and forth!
Thank you Sam you have made so much sense and have explained everything. It’s all quite sad really 😢
This is the best video yet- Thx Sam!
This was one of the most “clear cut” explanations. I got it now! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Sam, idk how many times I watched this amazing video. I'm convinced there's no better than you as a profesor! Thank you to the infinite ♾️
Thank you Prof. Vaknin! Please keep updating more!
One of the best analysis on the matter..period.
Thank you, Prof. Vaknin. Nice play on words at the end there, too.
Profound. I have recently been learning about NPD via online articles and CZcams channels. All of the other channels that I watched pretty much describe how to deal an NPD afflicted individual. Prof. Vaknin, however, provides the most intricate model of helping me understand the mental landscape, the "why", of this type of personality. Even though this is a very serious video, I must say that the final 2-3 sentences had me unexpectedly howling with laughter. A complete deadpan delivery. Well done professor.
Thank you. That was very succinct and enlightening. I have had a great help from your videos in understanding some of the strange relationships I have had over the years. It has helped me to let go of self-doubt and a lingering feeling of having to take responsibility for other people. After watching this video it is exceptionally clear to me how this works and to top things off, I can see that I now have a greater discernment in judging new acquaintances.
Last week I came into contact with a person who attached themselves to me with a familiarity that I didn't reciprocate, love-bombing me. But this time I recognised the behaviour and I have stayed quite neutral to see where things would lead. And very suddenly, today, after a pretty insignificant mis-communication, I was totally degraded and it seems the person has cut communications with me. Remembering your videos, I came back to watch again, and this time around, I have no regrets, I feel no remorse and I have no pangs of guilt for anything that played out between me and this individual. It feels so refreshing not taking on the load of others and their problems that obviously have nothing to do with me.
I had a relative who wanted me to be the mother and always found fault with their own mother. Also this relative destroyed my support system and when I needed them they ghost me and then reappeared 3 years later. I listened to their story and then called them and said no I can't go along with their program, and they cursed me out told me they hated me. They did everything you say but there were not my lover or husband this was a family member. They kept trying to contact me I told them I didn't wish to see them, but a narcissist can't believe you can reject them, and there is something wrong with them that is undesirable as a friend, family member or spouse. Tell them no and watch them curse you out. That is how you know who they really are at a soul level, and need their help they will ghost you. You are there to help them they are not there to help you or benefit you in any way. They have no heart and they are evil. Every time they contact me I block the communication and deny their existence and disappoint by not giving them what they want. Destroy their plan. They go away then come back because they can't believe they are not wanted and they are a glutton for punishment. If you let them in your life or give them your energy they will have nothing but bad news for you. I don't wish to hear bad news because love me I ghost them when ever they reach out and contact me. This has been going on for years because they never quit. My advice is run they will never change.
Watching this is so healing.. Thank you Sam.
Fantastic presentation Dr. Vaknin. Brilliant work as always. thank you for your effort.
I finally understand, thank you! You're work is appreciated. Understanding brings healing. Bless you for helping others understand 🙏
Thank you....You answered a question here that I asked in a prior video. Nicely done!!!! I love your humor!
Very well summarised. Many thanks Prof Vaknin.
Thanks.
Brilliant explanation of the dynamics!!!
I can see that clearly in my parents relationship.
Thank you Prof Sam! Indeed knowledge brings understanding and understanding brings healing.
Thank You Sam. Man this is so complex! WoW! ☮️
Thanks for this professor, this has been so informative and such an eye opener
I Thank you so so much, Professor Vaknin! Now, everything I‘ve been through makes Perfect sense!
Thank you Professor. Brilliant explanation.
Thank You!!!!! This is incredible. It took all the bits and pieces and unified them for me. This takes all the emotion out and helps me enter a cognitive realm to better understand and put less personalization on how I have been treated for almost 3 decades.
This is amazing information and makes complete sense ! Thank you for sharing !
Thank you Professor Sam for you help, I see the path more clearly, your videos are top notch and the best for anyone seeking healing and truth for narcissistic abuse.
As always, Dr. Vaknin, many thanks. Please make a video on the father making the son an extension of himself. I never knew where one life ended and the other began. I grieved when I saw the adult narcissist regress back to a very young child when in front of his father, and the father speaks to his son as though he were a little boy. It was always about correction. I felt like I was in the midst of their fantasy. Other times, the narcissist would attempt to humiliate me in front of his father letting his father know that he was his ultimate love. It was a wonder to behold, all of it.
This is so sad thank you for doing this video and letting us see inside a narcs mind...
Sir, thank you so much for your work and the way you deliver the information. Lived it for 10 yrs... Now, everything you say makes so much sense!
Thank you🙏
This is exactly my husband and our relationship. I'm stunned by the clarity of your video.
Thank you so much. Absolutely indispensable.
Great info as always, love the detailed videos!
I appreciate all your work on this topic, Dr Vaknin! I ordered your book and I can’t wait to read it.
Excellent clear explanation. Very coherent. Thank you!
I’ve followed you for years… you are the founder-First to expose and educate All on Narcissism…👏👏
Sam…it is actually very easy to grasp thanks to your explicit and clear explanation. You have helped me so very much. I could never repay you. Thank you for sharing.
Perfect explanation ! thank you Professor 🙏
The grandaddy is at it again, took my 5 years to understand what was going on in my family, thank you
Thank you so much Sam I watch so many of your videos and re-watch them , I have learned so much been in narcissistic relationships all my life and started educating myself early 2000 but still went on to the next I appreciate all you do for us and the time you commit thank you so much 🙏
It’s sad though. I’m about to divorce my first narc and it’s scary to think that after watching all these videos I may still make the same mistake again. A lifetime of healing awaits I pray 🙏
Flawless explanation of the rendition I was put through. OMG! Incredible insight!
Hi Prof. Sam Vaknin, That last bit was worth the wait. You really opened my eyes . thanks mate. Cheers from down under.
13:32 to 13:38 ***IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THIS VIDEO** AMAZING!! makes a lot of sense. Pure genius!!!
Thank you.
Finally through the precision of your explanation I have the key to the door that was previously locked.
You say you hope it is clear. It is.
Thank you.