#38 CYCLIC HOVERING Struggles HELICOPTER FLIGHT CONTROLS for students!
Vložit
- čas přidán 7. 07. 2024
- Private Pilot Study Guide free pdf download: www.helicopterground.com/priv...
24 Hour Test Flight HelicopterGround.com
Get Amazon No. 1 Best Seller Helicopter Check Ride at: www.helicopterground.com/pl/4...
Get Amazon No. 1 Best Seller Top Ten Check Ride Tips at: www.helicopterground.com/pl/5...
Private Pilot: www.helicopterground.com/stor...
Commercial Pilot: www.helicopterground.com/stor...
Certified Flight Instructor: www.helicopterground.com/stor...
Professional Pilot: www.helicopterground.com/stor...
Instrument Pilot: www.helicopterground.com/stor...
Get Amazon No. 1 Best Seller Helicopter Check Ride at: www.helicopterground.com/pl/4...
Get Amazon No. 1 Best Seller Top Ten Check Ride Tips at: www.helicopterground.com/pl/5...
CYCLIC HOVERING Struggles HELICOPTER FLIGHT CONTROLS for students!
#cyclic #hovering #hover
Kenny....when I was struggling with Cyclic over control as an early student, my instructor had me use a plastic soft drink straw...hold the straw verticle by it’s bottom with your thumb and index finger...balance a golf ball on the top of straw and walk around without dropping golf ball. I did this often for a week and it was amazing how it helped me at my next lesson.
That's a great idea Dan! Thanks for sharing with everyone!
Don't overthink it haha!
Mark Kiziuk yes and it was very helpful....teaches a steady gentle touch.
haha
Are you serious or is this a joke?
I explain it as it is like playing Chess. You need to think two moves ahead. To stop drift in one direction, the student needs to apply opposite cyclic input, but in order not to start drifting in that direction, they will need to return the cyclic to the center after the opposite input. Exactly as KK explained it. Great job. Keep up the good work.
Hey Hey great to see Chris Houser in the comments! I trained this young man off the street to cfi. He is the one I mention in the helicopter insurance video. The one where I blew a gasket when the insurance company wanted to have him get 350 hours make and model after I trained him! That's when I dropped that insurance company as fast as I could!
Your welcome and thank you!
Just logged my first .6 hours in a r22 dream till your dreams come true!!
Nice Job Jalan! How did you like it?
@@HelicopterGround it's definitely what I need to be doing the rest of my life!! I'm thankful to you for helping me not give up or talk myself out of my dream by the inspiration you put out through these videos, THANK SIR!!! I'm over in Albion Indiana all the time so hopefully I'll get the chance to stop in and shake your hand maybe by lunch or dinner for ya
Sounds great Jalan! Keep the dream alive!
I had my first intro flight today. I fell in love immediately. He let me fly straight and turn which was easy. At the end he was hovering and let me control the pedals, that was fairly easy. Then he said control the stick. The overconfident me thinking pffff, I got this. Soon I was all over the place, I started sweating so bad and I thought we were going to crash and I was begging my instructor to take controls back, he said keep going. Watching every video possible on tips, hopefully this Monday I’ll get better 😅
Just keep after it you will get there!
Helicopter Online Ground School
Just flew yesterday. We did S patterns and climbing/descending while holding same speed. Did fairly well. Came to hover and I’m really getting the collective/pedals down. Still fumbling on the cyclic 😩. I am determined to get it!
Have my next lesson tomorrow. Can’t wait to practice the hover again. Subtle movements and a complete feel thing I suspect!
Great topic and great video. Cyclic control for new helicopter students is always a difficult task in the beginning and it really comes down to over-controlling. When a student finally realizes the gentle touch and minimal movement required, they are off to the races. For any new students reading this, on your next lesson with your instructor, have them show you how small the inputs are needed to move the rotor system while the blades are turning and you are still on the ground. Move the cyclic ever so slightly forward, aft, left, right and watch the rotor disc respond. The minimal amount of movement you will use for this demo is very close to the amount of movement you need when in a hover. Remember, you really are flying the rotor disc and the rest of the helicopter just follows along. And like Kenny said, once you put an input into the cyclic to move in a particular direction you will also need to move the cyclic in the opposite direction ever so slightly until the helicopter momentum stops moving then move cyclic back to neutral (center the stick) in order to prevent moving in the opposite direction unintentionally. This will keep you from experiencing pendular action (oscillating under the rotor system). Keep practicing and try to relax your arm, being tense on the controls will only make things more difficult. Good Luck and be safe!
Awesome feedback from www.HelicopterGround.com's Operations Manager Brian Rutledge! Advice from a 30 year plus aviator!
Yep, getting the trim balanced makes it feel like the cyclic is floating. Much easier to control. Another tip from my instructor, Chris Hamblin, helped as well. I'm 5'8" but have short legs barely able to fully extend the pedals even when they are set for short legs. Because of that I was holding the cyclic with three fingers too low on the bar. By putting a small pad behind my lower back, my legs were bent a bit at the knee raising my thigh, so I could rest my had there and hold the cyclic closer to the top near the trim and intercom for more leverage and control. Between the trim tip and the back pad tip, I got a lot more control over the cyclic. And thanks Kenny for the daily coffee; I usually have my coffee with you. You've no idea how helpful this is.
Thats awesome Robert! Thank you for sharing what you learned from Chris Hamblin! I see his name pop up a lot, all in a good way! Glad your enjoying coffee with me! Started out one day as a video on the deck with no real plan. Forty days later it has been named by the viewers as "Coffee With Kenny"
Trim made a big positive difference after SEVERAL tries to learn a simple hover. Wish my instructor focused on teaching trim techniques at the beginning, like you said, in a traffic pattern. Even when I was holding the cyclic "like an egg", it was still hard when the egg feels 5 lbs on 1 side for 15min straight.
Trim Trim Trim! Thanks for sharing!
Thank you!
Thank you Kenny another awesome video
Thank you Charlie! Your comments are so important! Every time someone makes a comment it helps our channel which helps us to continue to produce the free daily video!
So glad to see that you're not having to use the handheld mic. .
Thanks for your videos Kenny, I'm considering starting helicopter flying instruction. Your videos are really informative, helpful, and downright interesting.
Is there a sensitivity adjustment for the cyclic and the anti torque pedals? I don't recall if you've talked about that. Also, have you ever heard of people who struggle with tremors go on to become pilots? That is something i struggle with but drive or have driven cars, trucks, big trucks, forklifts, motorcycles, school buses, motorhomes, dump trucks, and more. I've never felt limited as far as driving various vehicles and really would like to add helicopters to my resume.
Thanks so much for all you do, it's greatly appreciated.
Thanks for the feedback! You would need to pose your medical question to a FAA Medical Examiner. I like the handheld mic, no batteries to go dead, and cuts out so much background noise in certain situations. Especially wind noise!
Great video. Very clear and a difficult concept explained very simply. Thankyou!
Scott, thanks for the positive comment
Did my first attempt at hovering today, and one of my biggest issues is pushing the cyclic forward without intending to. I seem to do the same thing in flight aswell. Focusing on a further away point outside the helicopter does help with that a little bit.
Thanks for sharing!
I would try using a plumb bob,holding it roughly 3 inches off the ground and having a marker of some sort and pratice swing it over the said marker and stoping the plumb bob when its over the mark.
You're vids are spectacular !! 👍
Glad you like them!
I fly the Schweizer 300 and during my training the instructor would continually ask once we landed to see my hands because he noticed that I had a death grip on the controls. He would then tell me to relax and take a deep breath which is kind of tough being new and wanting progress and prove to myself and others that I could do this.
So the plan of action from then on was that I could only be allowed to fly the cyclic with my thumb, index and middle finger with just the slightest of movements and was discouraged from wearing gloves so he could monitor my capillary refill on my fingers.
This is only a suggestion and different techniques may work better than others until you can finally relax but not so much you become over confident, remember we all learn every single day either being new or a high time pilot...
I learn something new every day myself Roy! Thank you for the input!
I love this site I don't want to repeat what other people is said because it's true I'll just pick up on one or two things just as Picking a spot in a distance and holding the helicopter there. It was cool the see Your Shadow on the hanger wall in the sunset and you was hovering. Moments it that you won't forget as well as learning. I had a great instructor he loved teaching and he said where in the hell can you go to amusement park and get a ride like that he was cool and I was a bucket of water.
Thanks for commenting!
Hey Ken I am just an X-Plane helicopter simulation type hoping to win the lotto and afford to get real helicopter flight lessons. Of course at 73 years of age that is unlikely. Still this presentation helped me attain an improvement in my handling of the NIMBUS UH-1 Iroquois within X-Plane which I've found mind mindbogglingly difficult to bring back to earth without catastrophic simulated crashes. Even pretty tough getting it airborne without the swing effect.
Bottom line here is somehow your explanation of how to handle the cyclic for hovering helped me considerably. Although I knew from reading that too radical a movement of the cyclic results in sub-optimal results your presentation in front of nifty looking helicopters instilled confidence.:)
Thank you sir.
Thank you!
Very well said, I pilot the EC145 and a bell 429..
Thanks for commenting.
Thanks Kenny, having the hardest time with this. I am trying to be patient
Just keep after it Tommy! You WILL get it!
I learnt to fly full size a few months after mastering a RC Helicopter. It’s not for everyone, but I’m convinced it helped to get the basic correlation between all the controls a lot sooner.
Awesome thank you for sharing!
Funny you should mention how flying RC helicopters helped you fly the real thing. I too flew RC helicopters for many years and when it came down to learning to fly a real helicopter, it was a very easy transition! when I tell other people the same story, they look like I'm nuts...
@@guyjillforeman2327 I've since met several full size rotary pilots since, some who have tried RC ones and found them incredibly 'twitchy'. Especially with gyros, etc turned off LOL
Best flight instructions ever
Thanks for commenting
Reference a distant object while you are first learning to hover, anything closer will make you over correct. Stay out of the cockpit per se. Winds are going to produce that weathervane effect also. I remember this from flight training 20 years ago.
Thanks for sharing Derrick!
I've seen many instructional videos; NO vid inside the chopper, but very affective! Many talk gibberish, become annoying. This guy is the BEST! Got to watch again, 1st lesson coming up soon. Thank-you.
Thanks for commenting.
I understand, had a trial lesson in an R44, I didn’t even think I was moving the cyclic and the pendulum movement began. Of course, I was over compensating. Never imagined how sensitive movements had to be to gain that perfect balance!
Thanks for commenting.
Perfect explanation. Thank you sir!
Thank you David!
Wow!!! This subject would take a month to go over in detail. My instructor compared it to trying to hold a drunk friend from wandering off. As the drunk friend falls forward, you give them a little pull back, to the side and so on. Robinson is more difficult because of the teeter bar system. What I can up with is imagine a pencil attached to the bottom of the cyclic and your trying to draw a small circle or cross.
There is also a thing called, "overthinking!" Spending a month would way way way over complicate the topic! Thanks for the feedback!
Helicopter Online Ground School Hahaha You got me.
Yep! :)
Eeeeeek first lesson tomorrow after one flight having a go at hovering. I feel ya with the pendulum effect. Want to master it asap. Need a straw and a golf ball.... tension is the enemy... don’t fight the aircraft. Wish me luck - NZ
Thanks for commenting
My problem isn’t necessarily over controlling, tho it presents like it. I have a significantly hard time finding the neutral point. I am getting better but I’m still only around 28 hours. I fee I should be able to find neutral instantly by this point... I feel like I am chasing neutral half the time I am flying.
Keep after it! You will get there! It will get better with more time in the aircraft!
Its not the size of the movement, but the timing of it. I realized that the first time I tried to hover a 44 with the hydraulics off.
Flying the pattern with just the trim? Yeah, the guy I flew an Enstrom with had me try it,...felt weird doing it that way. 😬
Yep it is weird! But is so cool. People are very surprised when they watch you fly the pattern with only the trim! Thanks for commenting!
Your explanations are very good and easy to understand (but for me still more difficult to transfer them in real flight 😀)
Thank you for the feedback!
My first attempt I pendulumed so badly I made myself sick. I felt so defeated I wasn’t sure I wanted to continue. I forced myself. I saw improvement the next time. Today I made a nice straight run down 3/4 of the runway at 30-40kts and the last 1/4 we won’t talk about. Lol. It’s helpful to read that I’m not alone.
Thanks for the feedback!
I worked with a guy who flew Helicopters in The Royal Navy and I remember having a conversation with him about just the sort of thing you have Explained and he told me that his flight instructor said if you can see that hand moving then you are moving it too much.
Thanks for commenting
I still remember Kenny’s words , “ trim, trim, trim “ ......He’s right 🚁🇺🇸
Yep! I didn't mention that in the video! You should be trimming the entire flight! Trim! Trim! Trim!
My Aha moment in the hover came about 10 minutes in. I can't "KEEP" it still in the hover, But I can keep it corralled in one place by ONLY STOPPING the slight movement as it tries to venture out on an Excursion! Then the light came on, and the helicopter was pretty much still. This behavior is very much like trying to keep a tail dragger fixed wing on the runway center line. You can't keep it there, but when it moves off, you can ONLY apply as much rudder needed to stop its departure. ONLY then can you maybe start nudging it back toward where you need it to be.
Thanks for sharing Jim!
Beautiful. Every person wanting to learn how to control a rotorcraft should read what you've written till the light comes on for them too.
I don't have many hours in on the R22, but I am struggling with hovering and over-controlling the cyclic. As if that wasn't enough to combat, I also caught my right foot ("gas pedal foot") preventing me from giving more left pedal to remain in trim (trim strings). I try to keep my forearm anchored on my knee, and just use pressure of thumb and index finger on cyclic, but still over traveling. I have a feeling I am still overthinking things......
Exactly
Think of it as “input and observe “. Unlike a car where are you apply a constant level of pressure to get the desired result, helicopters have a bit of a lag. You push forward and there’s a second or so of delay before the helicopter does what you want it to do. This is how you end up over corrected. So if you need to drift right give it a little right input but then immediately reduce your input and start preparing to tap left. Just always be prepared to counter input with micro pressures opposite to what you just did to correct the inevitable overcorrection
While learning to hover, never mind the drifting. Just stop the tilting. As the chopper starts to tilt, you need to nip it in the bud by keeping the rotor plane perpendicular to gravity. That's done by continually bumping the cyclic in the opposite direction of the tilting. You'll be surprised how fast you'll learn to hover.
Thank You!
When the pendulum effect starts ..can the pilvot use the pedals (slow pressure right n left)to slow down the pendulum back to neutral or
Is the pendulum effect only controled by the cyclic
Thanks for the feedback
That's What Mike Does With His HUGHES-500D N86ST He Just Uses the Trim Button On His CYCLIC Control Stick to FLY the Helicopter Like You Kenny!!!
Thanks!
4000+hrs in 530, 500, 407's and a few in HH1H.....Tension is the enemy.
Exactly! Thanks for the input!
Lets get a good blooper compilation sometime lol
We got thousands of em I screw up all the time haha! We will do one a blooper reel together soon! :) Thanks for commenting!
1Cappadona Hahahahaha I’ll bring the GoPro to my next flight.
Awesome!
It seems like every other lesson I do bad, like a set back over confident? I am on my 8th lesson hoping I do better next time.
Keep after it! You will get there!
Trim is great if you have it. I think trim and helicopters belong together like gas turbines and helicopters. 100% hand flying wears a person out after an hour even in fixed wing. I have come across a few people who act like having and using trim on a helicopter is sinful.
Thanks for sharing. I’ll fly a helicopter anyday with trim. And if it doesnt have trim, i’ll fly that one too👍👍🚁🚁
How much does it cost a course to obtain a very basic helicopter pilot license, if you would answer. Thank you.
We just covered this topic in Day 1 of HOGS Daily Flight Brief at: czcams.com/video/uFccoPYrBgY/video.html
Can a below the knee amputee fly a helicopter? If so how does one control the petals?
I believe it's possible.
Thanks and I misspelled pedals@@HelicopterGround
So i just put in 3.7 hrs till date. Did my first hovering lesson and trust me the control with the cyclic made my helicopter into a rollercoaster🤣
Horrible first attempt. Looking forward to improvement in the upcoming days
Awesome stay after it!
Why doesn't the helicopter manufacturer design a cyclic which will go back to neutral automatically if the pilot lets go of the cyclic?
That would be dangerous. The cyclic needs to be constantly adjusted with small movements from the pilot.
it seems to me like flying a race drone. its alot of the same idea
Thanks for commenting!
i just relized i dident actually suggest that a tip in the RC world you don't want to move the stick anymore than the width of the actual stick during hover I would imagine that it's pretty close to the same for full-scale but I'm just a student still my self but managed to get a decent hover my second attempt and after I told the instroctor how I got to that logic he said that it was pretty close
Thanks for the additional comment!
Stabilise, before correcting your position back to where it was, and you soon "think" yourself to where you want to be.
Thanks for the feedback!
Use hand/finger muscles... not shoulder or arm.🧐
Thanks for commenting.
I keep ballooning and it sux
Keep after it you will get it.
Try to put a penny on the top and balance it.
Thank you for the feedback!
My instructor tells me I’m storing the pot too much
Thank you more to come!
I'm at 25 hours in an R44 and I still can't hover 😞
Might want to change instructors and or flight schools!
All cyclic moves can be done within the diameter of a silver dollar or less.
Thanks for commenting
@@HelicopterGround Wow! This channel is fantastic. Subscribed from Australia. I've just been introduced to Helicopters via FS 2020 40th Anniversary free update and it included a Bell 407 and a Guimbal Cabri G2 and I have to say everyone in the world is struggling with Helicopters. Microsoft actually by default have rotor and collective and cyclic assists on so basically the Helicopters fly themselves. But I decided to turn off assists and was met with instant spins, crashes and utter frustration. So I type in how to fly a helicopter in CZcams and up comes this video and it's a revelation. Thank you. Within 30 minutes I could lift off into a 6 foot steady ground hover and it was AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!! You sir are fantastic and there must be a half million frustrated people right now who need your help. I am now training every day for a couple hours and really looking forward to piloting my virtual Helicopters as if they were real. I have a LOT of videos to get through! Cheers.