We later found out the reason for the hard starting...the fuel shut off linkage on the pump was stuck half way closed. See 2018 cold start video..that's how it should start
I GREW UP ON OLD DOZERS i ran all kinds my favorite one was a 20 ih it spent the first part of its life as a pipe layer then came to east tennessee and got a d7 blade and went to work it had the 429 engine almost no problems except what barb wire will do to a final drive seal very well balanced dozer
I did use either after... didnt make a difference.... You didnt read did you... smh... The fuel shut off on the pump wasnt open all the way..Starts like fuck now. I ran dc6 for years to...so
Give you a hint , cat don't know this 1. When it's cold pump up the fuel pressure first 2. Crank engine till white smoke comes out of stack, now heaters are covered with fuel ! 3. Turn on heaters ,fuel on heaters starts to burn in cylinders !! 4 . Crank-engine , usually starts on first turn It will surprise you!
Soaking the glow plugs with fuel before heating them only makes sense. What usually burns out a glow plug is the cold fuel hitting the hot element so your process negates that action from happening. good idea.
A Chinese tractor manual said to take the engine oil and coolant out and bring it inside your house on cold nights! LOL oh, only use well filtered river water for coolant!
Great video, that spanner on the battery in between the terminals had me worried a bit in case it moved with engine vibration. You got her going. Good job.
When I was in the military we had old 68 D7E’s and we had the big jumping cables that we’d run from our truck tractors to give some more juice. And when we ran out of starting fluid we’d take a rag and stick it in a hero’s gas tank then wrap the rag around the air cleaner bonnet and let it duck some gas fumes down . Started every time without preheating
I have a D7 17A 1956 with 2 cylinder donkey/pony It has 2 speed gearbox so when the oil is really stiff you run it in low gear until it warms up. The donkey shares water with the main engine and the other cool thing is that the donkey exhaust goes around the inlet manifold and acts like a glow plug. Run for some minutes on decompression and the oil pressure comes up so that the engine always starts on full oil pressure which is why they last so long. The other thing is that unlike a battery which becomes weaker the more you use it the donkey becomes stronger. The donkey is strong enough to lift the blade and move the machine forward on level ground.
Give it a little ether, I've grown up with these old Cats in central British Columbia where the temp can get to -40c. Don't turn it into an ether pig but in cold temps you can use a little ether, its best to spray a little it in the air intake then roll the engine over. If you've got a partner to spray as you roll it over that's even better. The great things about the old Cats was the glow plugs but if you had weak batteries combined with cold temps this could be a problem. We used to use 12 volts from the pickup hooked to the cat batteries to warm them up for 15-30 mins depending on the temperature in cold weather. Yes I know Cat uses 24 volts but the 12 volts from your pickup will warm them up enough to start your dozer in colder temps. I've been around this old iron for 45 years, and my Father has run and owned Cat equipment since the mid 60's . Don't know it all but even if the linkage is a little worn you don't want to be using the starter to an extreme, a little ether is cheep compared to a $500.00 starter plus labour and down time. Any way the unit sounds GREAT, you've got to love those old long stroke straight 6 Cylds.
I put an oil pan heater on my old diesel truck and it worked fantastic, when it was time to start I was already circulating warm oil through the engine and it was more effective than a block heater in terms of getting to operating temperature.
I know your a long way from Alabama but it's crazy watching you fight the cold and we are disking and planting winter grass in shorts sleeves running the AC
And thanks very much for showing ! Looking followed to seeing the drive sprocket be replaced ! I wish I could help you. . BELEVE it or not I miss this liked of repairs.
I used to run China Diesels. They dont have any glo plugs, but I could start them at -20, but I had to use a lit propane torch stuck into the air intake, worked great. In fact I still use one on my Kubota diesel
coldest here in ireland was -16c in 2010 ........lots of tractors failed to start , i had a same tractor that was aircooled , no glowplugs or termostat heater on air intake , had to use a second battery to get it to go . cattle had no water for a long time ....good job the silage was wet .
i'm in Pennsylvania and have a small Massey-Ferguson diesel tractor that i have outside this winter. for very cold starts, i've taken my large kerosene/diesel turbine "torpedo" heater (130k-btu) and aimed it under the tractor about 2 feet away, started it up and covered the engine with a heavy tarp and let the turbine heater run for about 5 minutes warming everything up. i also hook up my battery charger to the battery so it powers the glow plugs and hold the glow plug switch on for at least 45 seconds. this process usually gets the tractor running after a couple of tries. this tractor is a 3 cylinder and i found one of the glow plugs not working, replaced it and checked the other two to make sure all three were heating up completely. replacing even one of the glow plugs with a new one made a big difference on cold starts. diesels really like it if ALL the glow plugs are getting HOT and all working together.
Cool machine! 46A's are freakin' brutes. I built miles of logging roads for Weyerhauser on one of those. Looked like it has a couple bad glow plugs, though. If all six glow plugs are working the amp gauge should show a thirty-amp draw, since the glow plugs pull five amps each. Thanks for the great video!
Holy crap I can’t believe it’s so cold there already,well not here in N.E.Oregon just yet but it’s coming for sure. I hope your knees get to feeling better soon. Thanks for sharing another fabulous show ☕️🍩☕️cheers.
Thank you for not destroying that nice machine with starting poison. Avoid that garbage like avoiding the plague. Starting fluid is the main cause of big machine break down and engine failure. You gained a fan. !!! Just a little bit of patience is all it takes. If you're trying to start a diesel in the cold one cannot be in a hurry, unless it's a dire emergency. Thanks for the cold video !!!
Northern farmer The reason DIESEL engines get a bad dependency to that stuff is, it's removes the oil film from the upper cylinder. Instant metal to metal wear on the piston ring piston and liner. Not to mention burned valve's, blown head gasket between cylinders & possibly a cracked head. ( NASTY NASTY) stuff. Also due to a dry cylinder liner to piston fit it will actually cause the piston to stick to the liner, causing the liner to be pushed up into the head during the up stroke. So it's a self inflicted injury everytime that garbage enters the combustion chamber. Worst case scenario it can acutely bust the crank shaft due to its low flash point.
@Roger Marshall oh please with the scare tactics of using ether. If you empty an entire can into the engine like a idiot it’s gonna break. This isn’t two-stroke where the oil is in the fuel. Diesels don’t run in the winter almost always fuel contamination. Plugged fuel filters and gelled fuel always the culprit. Put new fuel filters in it on a regular basis and clean fuel with additive and they will fire right up every time. Used so much equipment that was poorly maintained in my life think I have a good idea what I’m talking about. No fuel no go it’s very simple. Every single time put new fuel filters and fuel in and the equipment works just fine
Used properly starting fluid is fine. Engines do not become "addicted" to starting fluid. Like anything else learn how to properly use it. If you are using so much that you are flushing the oil out of the cylinders you already have a bigger problem.
@travcoman45 Yup they become “addicted” cause something is already wrong with the engine and the owners don’t maintain/repair A quick shot of ether isn’t gonna hurt anything
Had similar vintage D8K with 4bbl single shank ripper and that old gal did some work. Listening to you start her up brought back memories - would know that sound anywhere. Know exactly the issue you had with melting terminal off as had that happen to me - and replacing those heavy bastards - tweaked my back nicely straining to lift them back in. And did the same - put terminals on first then had to remove and place hold downs. Don't miss those days at all. Make sure you wear ear plugs running that noisy bastard.
I worked for an old farmer that had D6’s with pony motors, we’d fire them up and pull in the clutch then have a cup of coffee.. come back and give it some fuel and it’d fire up.
There is a cold start kit they put on 2 1/2,and 5 tons in Korea , have disabled a bunch and taken a few off , should not be too hard to adapt. Then there is the hot box we used on semis. It was a miniature diesel fired water heater.
Quick tips use #1 diesel for winter and #2 for summer. Also place a space heater on the block before you try starting it in winter or get a plug in heater kit. Diesel gels up and blocks the fuel filter. Water icing up in the lines does the same thing. Hand torch on filter (don't melt it) helps with that problem. Anti-gel in the fuel tank works too. Below minus -10 F, do all of the above. To bad you can't keep the glow plugs on when cranking. Have fun dieseling in the winter!
Maybe a return to kerosene burn trays and gas donkey engines? The world wonders! lol When I was 16, my dad bought me an Opel Electra for $300. It was worth every bit of $50 bucks! I had to put an electric space heater on the engine over night so it would start at +15 F. So much for the German gas engine theory. Today, German gas engines are still temperature sensitive. This is very strange because it gets just as cold in Germany as in Kansas. During the blizzard of '02 the wind chill was -67F. Fun times.
I helped a guy get his nearly new BMW going one cold morning. I plugged in his block heater (he hadn't) and went inside to wait a bit. I grabbed the owner's manual and brought it in and read it while we had coffee. I found an imaginary spot in the book and said "it says right here, Never let zee outzide air temperature fall below 0 degrees C". It didn't say that, of course, but we thought it was funny. His car started right up after about 30 minutes. @@tracybeme1597
Hey what's up man those batteries are about $160 he's down here there no joke as far as being cheap LOL I'm glad you got that big yellow Beast up and going man that damn thing is a big badass cat LOL hey man it's crazy how y'all got the snow already but anywho you guys keep it safe and we'll see you on the next one give oh Sean a knuckle bump for me brother
Torpedo heater and some plywood to keep the heat within the motor area always use to help me on cold starts. Depending on the winds I usually liked to have something blocking the sub zero winds overnight during winter months.
Donald Pauli Yep, one thing I’ve always been told to do is turn the headlights on for a few minutes before starting in cold weather. It wakes up the battery.
A recommendation and I have done this to my old Ford 5000 tractor w/o thremostart. Drill a 1/2” npt hole in the intake manifold right before air gets to the cylinders and of course keep it closed with a 1/2 npt plug. For winter starting take the plug out and use a torch that fits on the camping propane tanks (little green ones) to heat the air. Then cap it off and start the engine. For even harder starting have someone keep the torch lit and held in the hole while someone cranks the starter. I hope I explained that well enough.
we used to put newspaper soaked in diesel in the inlet manifold of a international 674 to start it .... lite up the paper , hop up crank it over , see the ashes come out the exhaust pipe .... worked well on a knackered engine
I had a 1957 Ferguson 35 still on it's original engine and used a gas torch in the rubber sleeve after the air cleaner to start up. Worked every time in cold weather, but an engine rebuild would have worked better, I'm sure!
You know I had this issue with my old glow plug RV and after 2 frustrating winters the solution was to fit a small solar panel to trickle charge the battery and keep it in tip top condition - starts first time every time now
I have been a dozer operator for years and experience taught me you have to learn to clean your tracks when your done!!! Especially in cold weather!!! Leaving all that mud on them it will freeze and lock up the rollers top and bottom and that causes premature wear and flat spots. Also you need to tighten up those tracks or you’ll be trying to put them back on in a mud hole!!!
Yea but I wasn't to worried since it was dried up dirt...i tapped it out easy with a shovel after....yes you would never want it to freeze in there..I always clean tracks in freezing weather
That brings back memories :) We had an old D6C I ran in high school that sat a lot and hot or cold we’d go through the same process you did, put in Creasy batteries, kill them on the glow plugs, put the charger on it, lol, always took a few hours of heating, charging and priming but it would fire right up every time after that, boy did she like to tease us with the “it wants to start” though:)
A direct short to ground was probably the cause. One thing that is absolutely necessary on heavy equipment is that the battery is secured well. Hold downs and trays not rusted out. Many batteries are mounted in such a way that the positive post is close to the frame or chassis. The ideal location of course is inboard and away from those points so that if the battery gets loose, only the negative post contacts the frame. Also, just a comment; batteries should be matched so that the capacities after discharge are about the same. The same goes for charging. Matched charging is easier on the charging system Again, ideally speaking.
Friend of mine has an old cat dozer and like you it was always a pain to start in winter until I gave him a 1500 watt block heater which as he was desperate he installed on the cat. After refilling the cooling system he plugged it into the ac side of his welder and as I told him let it run for one hour, he then per the instructions unplugged the block heater then cranked her over and was surprised how easily she started not quite like summer but a lot better than no heat at all. Food for thought.
I ran a diesel truck shop in Cle Elum, Wash. and it gets very cold there. We used Howe's Diesel Conditioner religiously and never had a start failure due to jelling. Just two oz.s per tank did ir.
Just subscribed! Interesting channel you got here. Nice video! I live in the northern parts of norway myself, just north of the polar circle. Good to see you dont kill the engine with ether, that's really not good for engines. I use to take the hose of to the turbo, and place a small blowtorch blowing into the turbo on my tractor or my old dumptruck if its really cold, helps a lot to get some warm air into the engine.
D8 K supposed to have 2 8D type batteries. also make sure all glow plugs are working. There is a warmer kit that is very inexpensive that you can retrofit by just removing a plug and inserting the heater. Just look on the parts book. the warming kit is retroactive not only to 46A, 36A and older models make sure you have the right amount of antifreeze or the first thing that it go is your water pump. Cat field service mechanic for 40 years.!!! .
It would start no problem in that weather... I did change the fuel filters and put winter fuel in it and it has so far started with glow plugs on for 3 min no problems.
Up north, we used circulating heaters, heat pads under the batteries, on the engine oil pan and heat pads on the final drives. Started reliably down to about -35, but we'd have to idle them for 45 minutes before we tried to move anything. Then, some genius back at the office figured out that we needed a heated cat shed, and life got much better after that. :-) Hang in there, brother! @@Northern_Farmer
Had he understood the instructions. Half the difficult cold starts are caused by improper starting technique. Said to do 3min. He does 2. Should have just fired up the generator, plugged in the booster charger and not worried about preheating like cat recommends
when cold outside i lit a rag soacked with diesel, lit iton fire and keep it at the mouth if the intake, then krank it. makes starting dieel in cold weather really easy
North, never have understood who and why anybody stopped there and said this will be a good place to settle, I can see it now, a covered wagon, they looked around and said yea, well freeze to death, and starve, or we can get in that wagon and go south 6 more mouths, but no, it's beautiful in the north during the summer, but I dont know who yall stand that cold, North Carolina is as far north as I want to go, and it gets unusually cold here sometimes and the first thing I think of is way up north what it must feel like there lol
Colonial Roofing of North Carolina Lest those in North Dakota have an excuse... Gen. Custer told 'em to stay put till he got back from the Little Big Horn.
LoL, you my friend are tough to the core. I do admire you from fixing stuff to farming, all mostly outside and then making videos so we can watch you do it.
That's a good job not using any ether. Ether is very hard on diesel engines. I've seen cracked Pistons from using ether on a couple of different occasions.
I have found that when starting a cold delisle if you don't crank for more than 10 seconds the starter lasts longer. And when they start firing stop for 20 seconds and then do again !!! The firing when you stops warms the cylinders and it helps. . Works for me.
One of those Chinese copies of the 5000 watt Honda generators will power 2 1500 watt block heaters at the same time as their continuous rating is 4000 watts. I have had one for 6 years and it runs no problem at all and powers my entire house when I have a power failure on the grid.
Since you bring along a generator to start your equipment you'd might try using a torpedo heater. Propane or kerosene would work. Just get some ductwork and attach it to the heater then you can angle where you want the heat. It'll heat up that big motor and the fuel lines real quick.
Being that cold, fuel could've "gelled" on you. If fuel bled back off, then you have an issue with the fuel pump. Love the sound of the older cat's, just pure raw power. Cheers :)
Congrats! I was listening the whole time while researching an odd cat I am looking for. My mystery cat is a small, about 3k gals chemical tanker. A special order for sure but I have business with the driver of that truck. Good job though. I thought you were a goner...
@@Northern_Farmer I can only tell you a Cat yellow mini-tanker dropped chemicals on my car with no placards so I tried to go beside him and he ran from me. I found the chemicals and now I want that driver. The truck came from Oak Ridge. My life is unsure. That coward will pay. I have a couple of things to nail down medically, and find a lawyer. Can you imagine odds of me only have a truck with no name, private labs from toenails, and a slip, and nothing but wits to find them. And, the odds they will freak out when they see my lawsuit where I tell them what process they use to do this secret process for..I can't say here. Yeah, I have business with that driver...
Hi I'm guessing the knees better as you seem to be working ok. We got snow here in MB I'm done spreading for the year needed another 2 days and another field to spread on to finish the 2 year old stuff. The glow and switch is messed up on my JCB last winter I used an electric heat gun straight in the air intake for a few mins, that worked real good without using ether but I was by the shop for easy power . I'm kinda puzzled by the 2 different amp batteries, was somebody just being cheap not buying 2 big amp ones. If you have one thats smaller than the other, the little one or older weaker one of a mixed set will draw the big one down to it's capacity. so that 1400 will be down to 1175 , and you loose the benefit of the big battery when it's running and charging. Thanks for the video and I'm glad it started ok for you.
Yes I think somebody was being cheap. I dont like to use either in that cat because it starts pretty good without it.... One thing I did forget though is It still has summer fuel in it.... I filled it with winter today!!
Back in the 60's I use to start my dad's tractor with a tin pan full of red hot charcoal. Wait for flame to die down, hour later, motor is warm as toast.
For everybody who asked why no ether, it's a no-no on engines with glow plugs. Can cause severe engine damage & sometimes people damage. The main component is Ether, which is volatile to the point of being explosive. It is a trick for starting low compression (read "worn out" ) engines. Not a good practice to use it often, as in "All winter long". As far as the melted battery post, I have seen that , when a know-it-all said "it's supposed to be 24 volts for cranking!" when it wasn't. I actually watched a man with a Dodge Cummins burn a battery post off this way( intense arc and sputtering sound, spraying melted lead) and then went back into the parts store and claimed it was a bad battery. After a while, the manager of the store warranted the battery to get rid of him before he called corporate and complained. Anytime there's two batteries and a melted post, my money is on the " a moron's been here" theory.
I still favor the starting (pony) engine for cold weather starts. Warming intake air, jacket water, circulating oil with compression off for a bit, then compression on before giving her any throttle. But I'm old fashioned, so I've been told
I once started a 398 in a 70 year-old tugboat with a bicycle pump. No power, dead batteries on the generators; but it had an air starter! That's pretty old-fashioned also!
No more than idle throttle needed for the start. Heat, then switch to start, once the engine will run sort of on it's own then rotate the switch back to heat until the engine runs smooth.
Love hearing them older CATS purr. She didn't start to bad for getting 50% fuel in -20 so the engine is in good shape. I would clean those tracks and keep them a little tighter but that's the foreman in me talking...lol Just better for your machine and avoids future costly repairs.
No.. not using either for this Engine... it will be like my 6... wont start without it. the real problem was the fuel shut off linkage was stuck closed... thats why it wouldnt start
And I thought the visibility on my forklift was bad! I can't believe they didn't offset the exhaust pipes on these monsters :P Anyway, thanks for the cool video :)
I agree absolutely. I used to run 7's and 8's up in northern Alaska plushing snow. The Cat 8D batteries were the only thing that would get them going reliably. They were heavier than any of the other brands. Also, we would be fired on the spot if we tried to use starting fluid. We would plug them in, but sometimes the breaker would trip, so they'd be cold. We'd get a diesel heater called a Herman-Nelson and blow hot air at it for an hour, and then use propane into the air intake while cranking. But, of course, you had to get the heater going first. That was so much fun, I quit after only 17 years. @@dozer1642
The ole girl fought ya to the end. What did that battery weigh. Do you still have that little I think it was a case track loader, if I remember right you were having fuel trouble with it?
The man read only part of the starting instructions for cold weather. When the engine starts to run on its own, turn the heat start switch back to "heat" till the engine is firing on all 6 cylinders.
Glad to hear you got the old girl running a lot of power can move some Earth but if you don't know what you doing don't use starter fluid I've been used in over 40 years no problem one just needs to know what to do with it glow plugs or not never had a problem never damage any engine never blew a tire off the rim airing it up with either when you know you just know 40 years with no trouble should say something I've used it from gas-powered lawn mowers to d8 cats Cummins Detroit Ford's case your name and yes I own these vehicles they still run if you can avoid using it avoid but it can save you a lot of time starters and Batterys
pile wood under it, drain the oil and start it on fire. Fill it with fresh oil while it warms up. start. Started D8s and 9s this way when it was zero outside.
We later found out the reason for the hard starting...the fuel shut off linkage on the pump was stuck half way closed. See 2018 cold start video..that's how it should start
um...that won't help :) I was having a hard time starting tractor other day, and the clamp holding cable has come loose, so it was shut.
its a carbon pile load tester.
i love old dozers
I GREW UP ON OLD DOZERS i ran all kinds my favorite one was a 20 ih it spent the first part of its life as a pipe layer then came to east tennessee and got a d7 blade and went to work it had the 429 engine almost no problems except what barb wire will do to a final drive seal very well balanced dozer
There is always something lol.
Really Rookie. Small sniff of either would done a big favour. Your hard on starter pissing around. I run D8Ks for many years in Canada.
I did use either after... didnt make a difference.... You didnt read did you... smh... The fuel shut off on the pump wasnt open all the way..Starts like fuck now. I ran dc6 for years to...so
That brings back old memories when I work at CN starting equipment on cold mornings.
Give you a hint , cat don't know this
1. When it's cold pump up the fuel pressure first
2. Crank engine till white smoke comes out of stack, now heaters are covered with fuel !
3. Turn on heaters ,fuel on heaters starts to burn in cylinders !!
4 . Crank-engine , usually starts on first turn
It will surprise you!
Makes sense 👍🏻
I find it best to simply store such equipment in a warmer climate
Soaking the glow plugs with fuel before heating them only makes sense. What usually burns out a glow plug is the cold fuel hitting the hot element so your process negates that action from happening. good idea.
A Chinese tractor manual said to take the engine oil and coolant out and bring it inside your house on cold nights! LOL oh, only use well filtered river water for coolant!
Great video, that spanner on the battery in between the terminals had me worried a bit in case it moved with engine vibration. You got her going. Good job.
When I was in the military we had old 68 D7E’s and we had the big jumping cables that we’d run from our truck tractors to give some more juice. And when we ran out of starting fluid we’d take a rag and stick it in a hero’s gas tank then wrap the rag around the air cleaner bonnet and let it duck some gas fumes down . Started every time without preheating
Cool story and for the tip
I have a D7 17A 1956 with 2 cylinder donkey/pony
It has 2 speed gearbox so when the oil is really stiff you run it in low gear until it warms up. The donkey shares water with the main engine and the other cool thing is that the donkey exhaust goes around the inlet manifold and acts like a glow plug.
Run for some minutes on decompression and the oil pressure comes up so that the engine always starts on full oil pressure which is why they last so long.
The other thing is that unlike a battery which becomes weaker the more you use it the donkey becomes stronger.
The donkey is strong enough to lift the blade and move the machine forward on level ground.
Give it a little ether, I've grown up with these old Cats in central British Columbia where the temp can get to -40c. Don't turn it into an ether pig but in cold temps you can use a little ether, its best to spray a little it in the air intake then roll the engine over. If you've got a partner to spray as you roll it over that's even better.
The great things about the old Cats was the glow plugs but if you had weak batteries combined with cold temps this could be a problem. We used to use 12 volts from the pickup hooked to the cat batteries to warm them up for 15-30 mins depending on the temperature in cold weather. Yes I know Cat uses 24 volts but the 12 volts from your pickup will warm them up enough to start your dozer in colder temps.
I've been around this old iron for 45 years, and my Father has run and owned Cat equipment since the mid 60's . Don't know it all but even if the linkage is a little worn you don't want to be using the starter to an extreme, a little ether is cheep compared to a $500.00 starter plus labour and down time.
Any way the unit sounds GREAT, you've got to love those old long stroke straight 6 Cylds.
Rob C honestly the international 500 sound better in my opinion because it sounds like a good old engine that gives a nice glug sound to it
now there is either with a lubricant so no worries about scoring cylinder walls
I put an oil pan heater on my old diesel truck and it worked fantastic, when it was time to start I was already circulating warm oil through the engine and it was more effective than a block heater in terms of getting to operating temperature.
I know your a long way from Alabama but it's crazy watching you fight the cold and we are disking and planting winter grass in shorts sleeves running the AC
I know...lol...Thats just how short our season is... always run out of time for some of the things we need to do.
Simpson’s homera.d Mfarge exotic
Paul Stephens C I
And thanks very much for showing ! Looking followed to seeing the drive sprocket be replaced ! I wish I could help you. . BELEVE it or not I miss this liked of repairs.
Thanks for the offer!!
I used to run China Diesels. They dont have any glo plugs, but I could start them at -20, but I had to use a lit propane torch stuck into the air intake, worked great. In fact I still use one on my Kubota diesel
We had a neighboring farmer who owned an ancient Cat dozer and he used to build a fire under the crankcase in cold weather.
On a diesel, (never a gas engine) Open the air cleaner, light a propane torch and put the flame in the intake. Most will start like it is summer time.
coldest here in ireland was -16c in 2010 ........lots of tractors failed to start , i had a same tractor that was aircooled , no glowplugs or termostat heater on air intake , had to use a second battery to get it to go . cattle had no water for a long time ....good job the silage was wet .
i'm in Pennsylvania and have a small Massey-Ferguson diesel tractor that i have outside this winter. for very cold starts, i've taken my large kerosene/diesel turbine "torpedo" heater (130k-btu) and aimed it under the tractor about 2 feet away, started it up and covered the engine with a heavy tarp and let the turbine heater run for about 5 minutes warming everything up. i also hook up my battery charger to the battery so it powers the glow plugs and hold the glow plug switch on for at least 45 seconds. this process usually gets the tractor running after a couple of tries. this tractor is a 3 cylinder and i found one of the glow plugs not working, replaced it and checked the other two to make sure all three were heating up completely. replacing even one of the glow plugs with a new one made a big difference on cold starts. diesels really like it if ALL the glow plugs are getting HOT and all working together.
We put a wabasto heater on our cat. Works AWSOME. Tht way u can warm it up any Wer.
Cool machine! 46A's are freakin' brutes. I built miles of logging roads for Weyerhauser on one of those. Looked like it has a couple bad glow plugs, though. If all six glow plugs are working the amp gauge should show a thirty-amp draw, since the glow plugs pull five amps each. Thanks for the great video!
Glad u finally got her running...!
These were beasts to start in warm weather. Can just imagine in the cold!!
Holy crap I can’t believe it’s so cold there already,well not here in N.E.Oregon just yet but it’s coming for sure. I hope your knees get to feeling better soon. Thanks for sharing another fabulous show ☕️🍩☕️cheers.
Yea we are in for another week of the same temps
20 above not below
@@mokelv no...20 below...
Thank you for not destroying that nice machine with starting poison. Avoid that garbage like avoiding the plague. Starting fluid is the main cause of big machine break down and engine failure. You gained a fan. !!! Just a little bit of patience is all it takes. If you're trying to start a diesel in the cold one cannot be in a hurry, unless it's a dire emergency. Thanks for the cold video !!!
Yea this 8 has never had either.. unlike my 6 that is addicted to it!!
Northern farmer
The reason DIESEL engines get a bad dependency to that stuff is, it's removes the oil film from the upper cylinder. Instant metal to metal wear on the piston ring piston and liner. Not to mention burned valve's, blown head gasket between cylinders & possibly a cracked head.
( NASTY NASTY) stuff. Also due to a dry cylinder liner to piston fit it will actually cause the piston to stick to the liner, causing the liner to be pushed up into the head during the up stroke.
So it's a self inflicted injury everytime that garbage enters the combustion chamber. Worst case scenario it can acutely bust the crank shaft due to its low flash point.
@Roger Marshall oh please with the scare tactics of using ether.
If you empty an entire can into the engine like a idiot it’s gonna break.
This isn’t two-stroke where the oil is in the fuel.
Diesels don’t run in the winter almost always fuel contamination. Plugged fuel filters and gelled fuel always the culprit.
Put new fuel filters in it on a regular basis and clean fuel with additive and they will fire right up every time.
Used so much equipment that was poorly maintained in my life think I have a good idea what I’m talking about.
No fuel no go it’s very simple. Every single time put new fuel filters and fuel in and the equipment works just fine
Used properly starting fluid is fine. Engines do not become "addicted" to starting fluid. Like anything else learn how to properly use it. If you are using so much that you are flushing the oil out of the cylinders you already have a bigger problem.
@travcoman45
Yup they become “addicted” cause something is already wrong with the engine and the owners don’t maintain/repair
A quick shot of ether isn’t gonna hurt anything
love watching your cold start videos thanks
Thanks stan
I have always liked the look of the old cats with the long roof out over the hoods. Nice iron.
Had similar vintage D8K with 4bbl single shank ripper and that old gal did some work. Listening to you start her up brought back memories - would know that sound anywhere. Know exactly the issue you had with melting terminal off as had that happen to me - and replacing those heavy bastards - tweaked my back nicely straining to lift them back in. And did the same - put terminals on first then had to remove and place hold downs. Don't miss those days at all. Make sure you wear ear plugs running that noisy bastard.
Thanks... I have a pair sitting in my d6c
I worked for an old farmer that had D6’s with pony motors, we’d fire them up and pull in the clutch then have a cup of coffee.. come back and give it some fuel and it’d fire up.
Those are cool
There is a cold start kit they put on 2 1/2,and 5 tons in Korea , have disabled a bunch and taken a few off , should not be too hard to adapt. Then there is the hot box we used on semis. It was a miniature diesel fired water heater.
Starts about like any Cat that I've ever had. always an adventure.
Quick tips use #1 diesel for winter and #2 for summer. Also place a space heater on the block before you try starting it in winter or get a plug in heater kit. Diesel gels up and blocks the fuel filter. Water icing up in the lines does the same thing. Hand torch on filter (don't melt it) helps with that problem. Anti-gel in the fuel tank works too. Below minus -10 F, do all of the above. To bad you can't keep the glow plugs on when cranking. Have fun dieseling in the winter!
Maybe a return to kerosene burn trays and gas donkey engines? The world wonders! lol When I was 16, my dad bought me an Opel Electra for $300. It was worth every bit of $50 bucks! I had to put an electric space heater on the engine over night so it would start at +15 F. So much for the German gas engine theory. Today, German gas engines are still temperature sensitive. This is very strange because it gets just as cold in Germany as in Kansas. During the blizzard of '02 the wind chill was -67F. Fun times.
Cone October all the fuel you get is winter fuel. The reason it wouldn't start was because the shut off was partially on.
I helped a guy get his nearly new BMW going one cold morning. I plugged in his block heater (he hadn't) and went inside to wait a bit. I grabbed the owner's manual and brought it in and read it while we had coffee. I found an imaginary spot in the book and said "it says right here, Never let zee outzide air temperature fall below 0 degrees C". It didn't say that, of course, but we thought it was funny. His car started right up after about 30 minutes. @@tracybeme1597
Hey what's up man those batteries are about $160 he's down here there no joke as far as being cheap LOL I'm glad you got that big yellow Beast up and going man that damn thing is a big badass cat LOL hey man it's crazy how y'all got the snow already but anywho you guys keep it safe and we'll see you on the next one give oh Sean a knuckle bump for me brother
I know even more here... at least I can take them in on exchange
do these straight weight 40 low ash oil as these engines ran total loss lubrication burn off?
Torpedo heater and some plywood to keep the heat within the motor area always use to help me on cold starts. Depending on the winds I usually liked to have something blocking the sub zero winds overnight during winter months.
Yea im going to get one of those frost fighter heaters ... should help alot.
There’s evidence that the glow plug load on the batteries warms them enough to gain some cranking capacity
Donald Pauli Yep, one thing I’ve always been told to do is turn the headlights on for a few minutes before starting in cold weather. It wakes up the battery.
A recommendation and I have done this to my old Ford 5000 tractor w/o thremostart. Drill a 1/2” npt hole in the intake manifold right before air gets to the cylinders and of course keep it closed with a 1/2 npt plug. For winter starting take the plug out and use a torch that fits on the camping propane tanks (little green ones) to heat the air. Then cap it off and start the engine. For even harder starting have someone keep the torch lit and held in the hole while someone cranks the starter. I hope I explained that well enough.
Neat Idea
we used to put newspaper soaked in diesel in the inlet manifold of a international 674 to start it .... lite up the paper , hop up crank it over , see the ashes come out the exhaust pipe .... worked well on a knackered engine
I had a 1957 Ferguson 35 still on it's original engine and used a gas torch in the rubber sleeve after the air cleaner to start up. Worked every time in cold weather, but an engine rebuild would have worked better, I'm sure!
You know I had this issue with my old glow plug RV and after 2 frustrating winters the solution was to fit a small solar panel to trickle charge the battery and keep it in tip top condition - starts first time every time now
I have a Kubota starts like a dream - 20 glow plug system is just nice
I have been a dozer operator for years and experience taught me you have to learn to clean your tracks when your done!!! Especially in cold weather!!! Leaving all that mud on them it will freeze and lock up the rollers top and bottom and that causes premature wear and flat spots. Also you need to tighten up those tracks or you’ll be trying to put them back on in a mud hole!!!
Yea but I wasn't to worried since it was dried up dirt...i tapped it out easy with a shovel after....yes you would never want it to freeze in there..I always clean tracks in freezing weather
The tightener was buggers at the time...fixed now
That brings back memories :) We had an old D6C I ran in high school that sat a lot and hot or cold we’d go through the same process you did, put in Creasy batteries, kill them on the glow plugs, put the charger on it, lol, always took a few hours of heating, charging and priming but it would fire right up every time after that, boy did she like to tease us with the “it wants to start” though:)
My d6c likes it either.... not like its big brother
@@Northern_Farmer what year is your D8?
@@rudycarlson8245 78
Purrs like a kitty lol
Another great video.
Can't believe you don't have yours ears covered !! I am shivering just thinking about it being that cold !! It is 58 here in southern California.
Yea I had to dig out my touque today
A direct short to ground was probably the cause. One thing that is absolutely necessary on heavy equipment is that the battery is secured well. Hold downs and trays not rusted out. Many batteries are mounted in such a way that the positive post is close to the frame or chassis. The ideal location of course is inboard and away from those points so that if the battery gets loose, only the negative post contacts the frame. Also, just a comment; batteries should be matched so that the capacities after discharge are about the same. The same goes for charging. Matched charging is easier on the charging system Again, ideally speaking.
we used to put flaming rolled papers over the intake on frosty morning in scotland
We did the same with the old air start macks
Tell me more. Never heard of doing that.
@@edwardleroy7648 easy way to start on cold morning rad with deisal on it light it get somebody to hit the starter while holding rag over air intake
All the cats i ever operated used a pony motor for starting...just engage the thing to crank away untill the engine developes enough heat to fire.
Friend of mine has an old cat dozer and like you it was always a pain to start in winter until I gave him a 1500 watt block heater which as he was desperate he installed on the cat. After refilling the cooling system he plugged it into the ac side of his welder and as I told him let it run for one hour, he then per the instructions unplugged the block heater then cranked her over and was surprised how easily she started not quite like summer but a lot better than no heat at all.
Food for thought.
Yes that would work great....
Never seen a farmer hesitant to use ether... haha good for you, Save the equipment.
It's a beast and there always hard to start. Once it's started look out
NIce video. If that was my Cat I would sure clean it up before storage!
It usually is..but it was dry dirt so it was easy to clean
I ran a diesel truck shop in Cle Elum, Wash. and it gets very cold there. We used Howe's Diesel Conditioner religiously and never had a start failure due to jelling. Just two oz.s per tank did ir.
Just subscribed! Interesting channel you got here. Nice video! I live in the northern parts of norway myself, just north of the polar circle. Good to see you dont kill the engine with ether, that's really not good for engines. I use to take the hose of to the turbo, and place a small blowtorch blowing into the turbo on my tractor or my old dumptruck if its really cold, helps a lot to get some warm air into the engine.
I know... I have never used it on this cat... but my D6c wont start without it
man these are just the coolest things to see start in the cold. lol
Its nice when they start lol
D8 K supposed to have 2 8D type batteries. also make sure all glow plugs are working. There is a warmer kit that is very inexpensive that you can retrofit by just removing a plug and inserting the heater. Just look on the parts book. the warming kit is retroactive not only to 46A, 36A and older models make sure you have the right amount of antifreeze or the first thing that it go is your water pump. Cat field service mechanic for 40 years.!!!
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It would start no problem in that weather... I did change the fuel filters and put winter fuel in it and it has so far started with glow plugs on for 3 min no problems.
Up north, we used circulating heaters, heat pads under the batteries, on the engine oil pan and heat pads on the final drives. Started reliably down to about -35, but we'd have to idle them for 45 minutes before we tried to move anything. Then, some genius back at the office figured out that we needed a heated cat shed, and life got much better after that. :-) Hang in there, brother! @@Northern_Farmer
Your a smart man for not using ether unless absolutely necessary.
Yea I dont like to use it unless you really have to
Shoveling out the undercarriage especially around the idlers in the winter is a good idea.
That was done after the video
Tip, if you can get it going on a few cylinders to where you can let off the starter, go back to heating the glow plugs.
Thats true
Had he understood the instructions. Half the difficult cold starts are caused by improper starting technique. Said to do 3min. He does 2. Should have just fired up the generator, plugged in the booster charger and not worried about preheating like cat recommends
A block heater is a lot cheaper than a new starter!
Belly pan heater for the oil works like a charm. We have one on our Agri king thing starts after on or two turns
that post that was missing can be repaired--had one on an 8D done at Dyno in Seattlle( cost $20). Check with your battery shop------Mikey
when cold outside i lit a rag soacked with diesel, lit iton fire and keep it at the mouth if the intake, then krank it. makes starting dieel in cold weather really easy
Thankls for the tip
It is a brilliant method. Done it on all sorts of diesels.
North, never have understood who and why anybody stopped there and said this will be a good place to settle, I can see it now, a covered wagon, they looked around and said yea, well freeze to death, and starve, or we can get in that wagon and go south 6 more mouths, but no, it's beautiful in the north during the summer, but I dont know who yall stand that cold, North Carolina is as far north as I want to go, and it gets unusually cold here sometimes and the first thing I think of is way up north what it must feel like there lol
Lol..you get used to it...but sometimes you dont. Must be why a lot of the older farmers here fly to Arizona for the winter lol
Colonial Roofing of North Carolina
Lest those in North Dakota have an excuse...
Gen. Custer told 'em to stay put till he got back from the Little Big Horn.
@@fjb4932 they still waiting lol
No mosquitos in winter.
Can't wait until I see a dozing video...
I don't envy you being out in the cold..
Thanks for the video....
This isnt cold... just wait its only November lol.
LoL, you my friend are tough to the core. I do admire you from fixing stuff to farming, all mostly outside
and then making videos so we can watch you do it.
That's a good job not using any ether. Ether is very hard on diesel engines. I've seen cracked Pistons from using ether on a couple of different occasions.
Thanks...this cat has never had any so I dont want to use it ...my d6 on the other hand wont start without it
The last 10 days have been rough here with the cold. I think we are about to get above freezing for now.
Yea you guys arent used to that.... but thats how it is here for 5 months lol
I have found that when starting a cold delisle if you don't crank for more than 10 seconds the starter lasts longer. And when they start firing stop for 20 seconds and then do again !!! The firing when you stops warms the cylinders and it helps. . Works for me.
One of those Chinese copies of the 5000 watt Honda generators will power 2 1500 watt block heaters at the same time as their continuous rating is 4000 watts. I have had one for 6 years and it runs no problem at all and powers my entire house when I have a power failure on the grid.
Man I endured a bunch of stupid commercials to watch this thing start, but it was worth it! 👍😆
Glad you liked it
Since you bring along a generator to start your equipment you'd might try using a torpedo heater. Propane or kerosene would work. Just get some ductwork and attach it to the heater then you can angle where you want the heat. It'll heat up that big motor and the fuel lines real quick.
I love that big d8k cat dozer
If your drive sprocket looks like this what do the pins look like? They might need turning. That Cat is sweet!
Being that cold, fuel could've "gelled" on you. If fuel bled back off, then you have an issue with the fuel pump. Love the sound of the older cat's, just pure raw power. Cheers :)
It did still have summer fuel in it... I had forgotten about that... but I have it filled with winter fuel now
Thumbs Up liked, Merry Christmas to you also.
Congrats! I was listening the whole time while researching an odd cat I am looking for. My mystery cat is a small, about 3k gals chemical tanker. A special order for sure but I have business with the driver of that truck. Good job though. I thought you were a goner...
Why?
@@Northern_Farmer I can only tell you a Cat yellow mini-tanker dropped chemicals on my car with no placards so I tried to go beside him and he ran from me. I found the chemicals and now I want that driver. The truck came from Oak Ridge. My life is unsure. That coward will pay. I have a couple of things to nail down medically, and find a lawyer. Can you imagine odds of me only have a truck with no name, private labs from toenails, and a slip, and nothing but wits to find them. And, the odds they will freak out when they see my lawsuit where I tell them what process they use to do this secret process for..I can't say here. Yeah, I have business with that driver...
Hi I'm guessing the knees better as you seem to be working ok. We got snow here in MB I'm done spreading for the year needed another 2 days and another field to spread on to finish the 2 year old stuff. The glow and switch is messed up on my JCB last winter I used an electric heat gun straight in the air intake for a few mins, that worked real good without using ether but I was by the shop for easy power .
I'm kinda puzzled by the 2 different amp batteries, was somebody just being cheap not buying 2 big amp ones. If you have one thats smaller than the other, the little one or older weaker one of a mixed set will draw the big one down to it's capacity. so that 1400 will be down to 1175 , and you loose the benefit of the big battery when it's running and charging. Thanks for the video and I'm glad it started ok for you.
Yes I think somebody was being cheap. I dont like to use either in that cat because it starts pretty good without it.... One thing I did forget though is It still has summer fuel in it.... I filled it with winter today!!
Set up a kerosene heater on top of the tracks to blow heat towards the engine. It will fire up just like summer time.
Back in the 60's I use to start my dad's tractor with a tin pan full of red hot charcoal. Wait for flame to die down, hour later, motor is warm as toast.
my dad did the same thing
When it's this cold I have a hard time getting starting too!! LOL
That's what I would do. It works!!
For everybody who asked why no ether, it's a no-no on engines with glow plugs. Can cause severe engine damage & sometimes people damage. The main component is Ether, which is volatile to the point of being explosive. It is a trick for starting low compression (read "worn out" ) engines. Not a good practice to use it often, as in "All winter long". As far as the melted battery post, I have seen that , when a know-it-all said "it's supposed to be 24 volts for cranking!" when it wasn't. I actually watched a man with a Dodge Cummins burn a battery post off this way( intense arc and sputtering sound, spraying melted lead) and then went back into the parts store and claimed it was a bad battery. After a while, the manager of the store warranted the battery to get rid of him before he called corporate and complained. Anytime there's two batteries and a melted post, my money is on the " a moron's been here" theory.
If you still have trouble build a fire under the oil pan!
That's the way to remove frozen belly pans in winter. Use old pallets and build a fire. After a while, the pan will drop and put the fire out.
I sure hope both batteries are new, or else the weaker one will draw the stronger battery down to it's level.
I still favor the starting (pony) engine for cold weather starts. Warming intake air, jacket water, circulating oil with compression off for a bit, then compression on before giving her any throttle. But I'm old fashioned, so I've been told
I once started a 398 in a 70 year-old tugboat with a bicycle pump. No power, dead batteries on the generators; but it had an air starter! That's pretty old-fashioned also!
my right ear enjoyed this
No more than idle throttle needed for the start. Heat, then switch to start, once the engine will run sort of on it's own then rotate the switch back to heat until the engine runs smooth.
Exactly!!!!!!!!!!
My grandfather had a D-7 about same vintage and we were watching this at lunch and saying the same thing.
She sounds good!
I love caterpillar equipment they been here for 75 years or more
Temps are dropping time to put some winter diesel in that beast.
Yes I had forgotten about that... it still has summer fuel in it... I filled it with winter today
Love hearing them older CATS purr. She didn't start to bad for getting 50% fuel in -20 so the engine is in good shape. I would clean those tracks and keep them a little tighter but that's the foreman in me talking...lol Just better for your machine and avoids future costly repairs.
That left hand track keeps getting lose
@@Northern_Farmer grease nipple leaking. Or a seal in the idler piston
Buddy good battery turn the key let the glow plugs heat up and give it a shot of ether! Done! It's not hard!
No.. not using either for this Engine... it will be like my 6... wont start without it. the real problem was the fuel shut off linkage was stuck closed... thats why it wouldnt start
I have stuff setting outside, too.
Yes it sucks
And I thought the visibility on my forklift was bad! I can't believe they didn't offset the exhaust pipes on these monsters :P Anyway, thanks for the cool video :)
One things is certain....he got some good batteries!
Lol yea... I was suprised they turned it over that long
Try a hot air dryer/heat gun into the intake if you have a gen set handy. I’ve heated & started 100’s at lower than -30c parachutes & Herman Nelson’s
Nothing like a good ole Cat battery!
Ahhh yes, Delco 761As. We used to have them in a boat to turn over a pair of Cat 3116s. They weren't very good.
11:57 SHE'S ALIVEEEEEEE!!!!!
Nice clean tracks lol
Cat made the best batteries. very durable ones. dont know if they make them anymore.
First Time I have saw one!!
I doubt cat ever made them. Probably Johnson controls or Deka.
Yea Cat just put their name on it
Cat batteries are still the best. Like everything else with a cat emblem on it though, they are not cheap.
I agree absolutely. I used to run 7's and 8's up in northern Alaska plushing snow. The Cat 8D batteries were the only thing that would get them going reliably. They were heavier than any of the other brands. Also, we would be fired on the spot if we tried to use starting fluid. We would plug them in, but sometimes the breaker would trip, so they'd be cold. We'd get a diesel heater called a Herman-Nelson and blow hot air at it for an hour, and then use propane into the air intake while cranking. But, of course, you had to get the heater going first. That was so much fun, I quit after only 17 years. @@dozer1642
CAT makes block heaters for them. Easy install.
Should find one for them
The ole girl fought ya to the end. What did that battery weigh. Do you still have that little I think it was a case track loader, if I remember right you were having fuel trouble with it?
Yea the case is fine....it was a plugged by the tank shut off valvue
The man read only part of the starting instructions for cold weather. When the engine starts to run on its own, turn the heat start switch back to "heat" till the engine is firing on all 6 cylinders.
Right you are!
Northern farmer no biggie, we men are all prone to the same thing lol
@@jonnyt8056 he had her heated he is damaging her now
edward beday good eye.
@@PhilRV640 no
Glad to hear you got the old girl running a lot of power can move some Earth but if you don't know what you doing don't use starter fluid I've been used in over 40 years no problem one just needs to know what to do with it glow plugs or not never had a problem never damage any engine never blew a tire off the rim airing it up with either when you know you just know 40 years with no trouble should say something I've used it from gas-powered lawn mowers to d8 cats Cummins Detroit Ford's case your name and yes I own these vehicles they still run if you can avoid using it avoid but it can save you a lot of time starters and Batterys
Dude's got enough combines sitting around.
pile wood under it, drain the oil and start it on fire. Fill it with fresh oil while it warms up. start. Started D8s and 9s this way when it was zero outside.
Cold weather is a pain u spend half the day runnin round tryin to start things an u get nothin done haha
David Porter right. Better off to plug them in if they got a block heater
if its really cold i use both block heater and the webasto. nothing beats getting in a warm cab in the mornings :)
North east Ohio farmer I am from Ireland an that mite only happen for a couple a weeks in the year. Wer not set up for the cold
David Porter I heard that. We've seen -15 here in the states 3 years ago
The machine looks like it's in good shape