You need to reverse what you did. Put the front in full stiff and leave the rear mostly alone. These cars also love front camber. Both will help big time and help offset the problems with a mac strut set up. edit: saw you did that afterwards. What you have heard about other cars...reverse it for mac strut cars.
Fwd, in a tight cornering heavy weight transition environment, benefit greatly by running the tightest setting possible in back, and nothing up front. Rwd, medium to soft rear, stiff up front. Nice vid.
In general stiffening the rear sway-bar in a bmw of that era with an open diff puts a ton of understeer because 1) the stock sway-bars are pretty loose to begin with (2020 standards), 2) The open diff balances the oversteer you would get because it is not locked enough and thas it is not reaching the threashold of lockness a limited slip diff would have provided! So what you actually want to do is stiff the front and rear at max settings and not be that smooth on entry, rather than try to enitiate drift with more sudden stearing inputs so that you shock the rear of the car into position rather than smoothly placing it. It driving will feel a lot more aggresive but i promise you that you will see reasults.
Do you know if the 330's have better underpinnings than the other models? I have heard of some people swapping in 330i parts as a low budget upgrade. I have a 330i and wonder if benefits can be had with bigger sway bars as well. Any thoughts?
Are you from Ontario? I'm thinking about getting the Hotchkis for my E46 after watching your videos. I was on the exact same track and with stock sway bars and Koni FSDs, Pilot AS3s, I felt the roll like no tomorrow. (especially since I was switching between a m240 and a 05 330i haha).
Nice video. I run a stock front bar and an ECS Tuning 21MM rear bar. I have adjustable endlinks on the front bar cranked down to the shortest setting, and Koni Yellows that I adjusted to the fastest dampering . One the rear I have Bilstein sports and eibach springs all around. I found that it has helped to get the car a bit more to the neutral side. Have you tried leaving the big bar in the rear and a stock front? Also do you turn off the DSC system? In the vid It looks like its still on.
I always run DSC off, I just may have had it on for a warm up or cool down lap by accident (and then used that clip to make the video). I am looking at potential suspension options currently to try and plant the car more. Considering coilovers but budget is an issue. I'm going to try every possibility with the current hotchkis bars before I start switching anything out. The previous set up I ran (soft front soft rear) was much better sorted. I am going to try stiff up front and soft in the rear next time. I'm also really considering some camber plates for better tire wear and better front end grip...
Coilovers with camber plates will transform the way the car handles and transfers weight. The best budget version i can think of is Suspension Technique, which are made by KW. Traditionally front soft and rear stiff, is what dials out understeer issues. This allows the car to rotate on its center axis, generally this is induced by tapping the throttle in mid corner and giving it full throttle on corner exit. The counter-intuitive way of making the front stiff and the rear soft, depends on what other mods have been done, suspension, wheels tires and most importantly driving style.
I also have been looking at coilovers. However I think I may go with lowering springs and Koni Yellows. This might be more cost effetive. I can convert to a coilover with the ground-control kit later.
Did you get a chance to hit the track again and see if the new setting are better? I ordered these bars for an E36 and I'm debating whether to keep them or use something else. My car is lowered on PSS9s. with -2.4 camber front and -2.3 camber rear. Car is mostly neutral but still pushes at the edge. Was hoping you might have given some direction on dialing in controlled oversteer from these bars.
Sounds like you have a good set up. My input won't help you though. You have way more neg camber than I do. However generally, stiffer up front and looser in the rear will give good front end grip on corner entry, but understeer on the way out. Stiff in rear loose up front will give oversteer on corner exit. So it is depending on your driving technique and your alignment set up. As of yet I havnt been back to test out this current set up. But I will be bringing tools to play around with different stiffnesses to dial in my own set up.
I had e46 m3 euro spec 3.0 286bhp. On that car i hadbilstein b14 h&r swaybars full adusteble, camber plates in front and camber arms in rear. I used for street micheli ps2 and for track federal rsr. Geometry in front was 2 degrees and 45minutesandin the rear 2 degrees. Infront toe was 0.0 and in the back -0.30 total. Presure for track cold tyres was 2.2 bars. Sway bars in the middle. Front end was like trail. Fixet on the groung no understeer at all. Now i have e46 330ci manual and i would like to have the same feeling. But i cant find h&r swaybars and some guy recomend me coilovers meister r full adusteble. Dont know whatto do.
Never thought I would be watching 7 year old throttle house for mods I'm researching. I love the reviews
You need to reverse what you did.
Put the front in full stiff and leave the rear mostly alone. These cars also love front camber. Both will help big time and help offset the problems with a mac strut set up.
edit: saw you did that afterwards. What you have heard about other cars...reverse it for mac strut cars.
Fwd, in a tight cornering heavy weight transition environment, benefit greatly by running the tightest setting possible in back, and nothing up front.
Rwd, medium to soft rear, stiff up front.
Nice vid.
How did I find this classic video… Thanks Hotchkis! Hope these work out well on my 1LE!
In general stiffening the rear sway-bar in a bmw of that era with an open diff puts a ton of understeer because 1) the stock sway-bars are pretty loose to begin with (2020 standards), 2) The open diff balances the oversteer you would get because it is not locked enough and thas it is not reaching the threashold of lockness a limited slip diff would have provided! So what you actually want to do is stiff the front and rear at max settings and not be that smooth on entry, rather than try to enitiate drift with more sudden stearing inputs so that you shock the rear of the car into position rather than smoothly placing it. It driving will feel a lot more aggresive but i promise you that you will see reasults.
Do you know if the 330's have better underpinnings than the other models? I have heard of some people swapping in 330i parts as a low budget upgrade. I have a 330i and wonder if benefits can be had with bigger sway bars as well. Any thoughts?
Are you from Ontario? I'm thinking about getting the Hotchkis for my E46 after watching your videos. I was on the exact same track and with stock sway bars and Koni FSDs, Pilot AS3s, I felt the roll like no tomorrow. (especially since I was switching between a m240 and a 05 330i haha).
+lindvior yep. That's at Cayuga.
Nice video. I run a stock front bar and an ECS Tuning 21MM rear bar. I have adjustable endlinks on the front bar cranked down to the shortest setting, and Koni Yellows that I adjusted to the fastest dampering . One the rear I have Bilstein sports and eibach springs all around. I found that it has helped to get the car a bit more to the neutral side. Have you tried leaving the big bar in the rear and a stock front? Also do you turn off the DSC system? In the vid It looks like its still on.
I always run DSC off, I just may have had it on for a warm up or cool down lap by accident (and then used that clip to make the video). I am looking at potential suspension options currently to try and plant the car more. Considering coilovers but budget is an issue. I'm going to try every possibility with the current hotchkis bars before I start switching anything out. The previous set up I ran (soft front soft rear) was much better sorted. I am going to try stiff up front and soft in the rear next time. I'm also really considering some camber plates for better tire wear and better front end grip...
Cool. I need to get up there and check out that track.
Coilovers with camber plates will transform the way the car handles and transfers weight. The best budget version i can think of is Suspension Technique, which are made by KW. Traditionally front soft and rear stiff, is what dials out understeer issues. This allows the car to rotate on its center axis, generally this is induced by tapping the throttle in mid corner and giving it full throttle on corner exit. The counter-intuitive way of making the front stiff and the rear soft, depends on what other mods have been done, suspension, wheels tires and most importantly driving style.
I also have been looking at coilovers. However I think I may go with lowering springs and Koni Yellows. This might be more cost effetive. I can convert to a coilover with the ground-control kit later.
Did you get a chance to hit the track again and see if the new setting are better? I ordered these bars for an E36 and I'm debating whether to keep them or use something else. My car is lowered on PSS9s. with -2.4 camber front and -2.3 camber rear. Car is mostly neutral but still pushes at the edge. Was hoping you might have given some direction on dialing in controlled oversteer from these bars.
Sounds like you have a good set up. My input won't help you though. You have way more neg camber than I do. However generally, stiffer up front and looser in the rear will give good front end grip on corner entry, but understeer on the way out. Stiff in rear loose up front will give oversteer on corner exit. So it is depending on your driving technique and your alignment set up. As of yet I havnt been back to test out this current set up. But I will be bringing tools to play around with different stiffnesses to dial in my own set up.
I had e46 m3 euro spec 3.0 286bhp. On that car i hadbilstein b14 h&r swaybars full adusteble, camber plates in front and camber arms in rear. I used for street micheli ps2 and for track federal rsr. Geometry in front was 2 degrees and 45minutesandin the rear 2 degrees. Infront toe was 0.0 and in the back -0.30 total. Presure for track cold tyres was 2.2 bars. Sway bars in the middle. Front end was like trail. Fixet on the groung no understeer at all. Now i have e46 330ci manual and i would like to have the same feeling. But i cant find h&r swaybars and some guy recomend me coilovers meister r full adusteble. Dont know whatto do.
Sorry for mistakes. I am writing on phone. Trail i meen train:) regars from EU ;)
What would you recommend for someone with coilovers ?
E36, soft front and medium rear. Too stiff up front = push (lifting the inside tire)