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I had a feeling it wouldnt be any better than the fenix 6. Can you please review the Fenix epix 2 thats the one im looking at but not sure if its worth the price tag.
@@TheQuantifiedScientist venu 2 plus also had already updates, and F7 had not. count also this. Apple watch can be more accurate because it has nylon strap and it does not band and the watches are not round, they are square so when You move Your arm the moves less
Hi! For sure. Honestly, it was a bit of a coin toss for me if the sleep tracking would be more like the Venu 2 Plus (not great) or Vivomove Sport (pretty good). Maybe I can find some setting that makes the difference in the end. Or, maybe make a new account, in case it trains the sleep tracking algorithm for each individual, and re-training the algorithm could improve results.😊
@@TheQuantifiedScientist I also wonder if they'll continue to tighten up the F7 over time. I ditched my Whoop for its lack of overall accuracy, so hoping my F7S continues to improve. I also wonder if it could be a fit issue for you? I have a smaller wrist so ended up going for the 7S and it seems pretty spot on for me and showing 4 deep sleep cycles and 6 REM cycles per night.
@@whaleshark2625 I have a Fenix 6 pro and have consistently received updates throughout ownership, including the last few months while the 7 was released
A $150,000 Mercedes car that only looks cool but drives like a tractor would be hardly acceptable. A $700 watch that is every day wrong by 10 minutes would be a scandal. A $ 700 smartmatch that is stupid to me is this: A cheat.
The Fēnix 7 is now up to version 13.22. You should do an update. The watch came out a year ago and I don’t expect it to be 100% accurate the moment it’s released. After a few software updates, I’m confident that now it should be on par with the other watches you mentioned. I feel my Fēnix 7 Sapphire Solar is pretty accurate. And yes, I bought it a few months ago for the advanced features-mostly for Spartan racing. Give it another go and let us know.
Funny era where every piece of software need half a dozen updates to work as expected, early adopter are thus penalized and becomes alpha/beta testers although they paid the premium price point
One thing (among many) that I really appreciate about your reviews is that you’re not biased. You’re not one of the Garmin Fan Boys that never criticize Garmin wearables & pretend to be unbiased.
Hey, Considering you test all the apple watches even with beta software, it would be nice if you could update fenix 7 to latest software and compare it again with some other watches. I own Fenix 6 pro and they constantly improve the watch and are adding features. Thank you for you'r reviews, I think they are the best ones on youtoube! Don't stop filming ^^ Take care!
You might want to try it again. Garmin came out with a massive update 5 days ago. It now detects movement in sleep like Fitbit and I noticed I went from usually reading awake 5 minutes to now reading 30 minutes. I wore a Fitbit Charge 5 on my other wrist and they both matched up identical.
Nice one Rob! I think one of the big variables with the Fenix line is the overall size and weight when it comes to optical HR performance. Considering these devices have the exact same sensor as the Venu 2 Plus / 945 LTE they should perform similarly. But, due to that larger size and weight they bounce on the wrist or end up flexing away from contact with your skin which causes the deviations you're seeing. Love your approach with these. Keep it up!
Thanks Dave! I hope my videos are complimentary to the videos you (and others like Des and Ray) make, each of us taking a slightly different angle😊 . You also keep it up! You are killing it with your view counts (+ the sheer quantity of videos is amazing the last weeks👍)!
@@TheQuantifiedScientist Just as Dave mentioned, my best guess why they are so differ in collecting data is because of difference in size and the way they fit on the wrist. I can surely tell that my Vivoactive 4 and Fenix 6 Pro sits quite differently on my wrist and even that they share similar sensors I get a quite different results when compare them side by side. Garmin also seems to tweak algorithms a lot, so I hope that they can tweak it with the time and you can make another review of the watch after some time. BTW I've tried a few brands of watches and compared sleep tracking side by side, and so far Fenix 6 seems to be leading in this department. And I have a guess that it's because it's for a while on the market, and they polished the algorithm during this time to work nicely.
Great information! I own a fenix, and your test confirm my suspicions about the mediocrity of the sleep and SpO2 readings. And you're completely correct--I use my watch mainly to track and navigate when I'm far from civilization, and I use it to help improve my fitness before field seasons. The bio metrics are nice (and taken with a large grain of salt), but it's definitely not the main selling point of this watch. One test I'd like to see is measuring a known distance, altitude Δ, speed, etc., and comparing against what a device records. It may be easier said than done as you should probably normalize those data against the number of satellites acquired, terrain, etc., but I'm sure you'd make it work :) Also, it may be interesting to test other metrics given by training watches like VO2 max, race predictions, and recovery time. Anyway, thanks for making these! I really love your data-driven reviews!
Wow, really love this input! The way I use these watches can really deviate from how others use it, and what their priorities are, so this is really valuable!! Thanks so much First Last!
@First Last, did you consider the Garmin Instinct instead of the Fenix? Seems like it may have been a better fit, but I don't know about accuracy, at least until Rob here runs the gamut on it XD
@@AndresGuzman87 I’ve been wearing a fenix since before the instinct came out. I think the instinct would work well, but for my job topo maps on my wrist are a lifesaver. I also wouldn’t want to lose the sapphire, all of the training metrics, and activity profiles that the fenix has.
i have been really interest in the fenix because of the topo and maps features. i do a lot of out doors stuff like hiking, dirt bike riding, camping, orienteering and rappelling. i am wondering how reliable and accurate the maps and breadcrumb features are. it would be healpful for desert treks and hunting as well. i would like to hear your opinion on the watch. what do you think of the gps, maps and features? thanks.
@@SomeReefer the maps are very reliable and accurate, and the GPS has gotten more precise with the fenix 7, also easier to navigate with now that it has a touch screen. The topo maps aren’t the most detailed maps I’ve ever seen, but they are really good for viewing on a 1.4 inch circular screen.
I’m extremely happy with the fenix 6 pro solar that I got for a few hundred less than the new fenix 7. My only issue is the sleep tracking as well. I have an older Garmin watch that seems more accurate on sleep tracking.
Hi Jmac! Thanks for sharing! Indeed, if something new releases, many people feel the need to upgrade. However, always sleep on it a few weeks, since improvements are only incremental. Personally I would try to do the research, find the best device at the time, and keep it until the battery is failing (which is hopefully 3-4 years later). I think that is an ideal situation, given the speed of developments
Thanks for this review. In a way, I kinda expected that the heart rate accuracy wouldn't be top notch because of the size of the Fenix 7. This means that unless you use a chest strap paired to the Fenix 7, you wouldn't get very accurate training load metrics from the watch
Great review Rob ! The people demanded a Fenix review and you more than delivered ;) My only criticism: The qualitative GPS tests don't really fit to the spirit of your channel. Also, people already get these kind of tests from other reviewers. I would LOVE it if you could maybe walk on some kind of pavement marking (set a standard test course, preferably with some tall buildings on the way, and some trees in another section) in both directions and provide a percentage overlap or something like that. Give us more numbers ! :D Don't want to sound too picky though. Your reviews are already among my favorites :)
Hi Michael! Thanks for the compliment and the feedback😊. Yes, I am thinking about ways of making the GPS tests more quantitative. I already think that by doing the same route multiple times gives some value, but it could be more quantitative indeed. I do think there will always be some overlap with other reviewers, and this is actually good, because we can see if the results are consistent🧪
Could you do another Scientist's Review since Garmin is based mostly on software calculations, so would be nice to see if there are any improvements during the time. :)
Yes! Thanks for reviewing this I was hoping you'd be getting one. I've had the Fenix 5X for about three years now and it appears the sleep tracking isn't any better on the 7. I've worn my 5X alongside my Aura gen 2 and now gen 3. Aura isn't perfect but I've felt it is more accurate with the sleep tracking which appears to be what you've found as well.
Hi David! Indeed the Oura is better, but it should still improve over the next year to be among the top. What Oura is really good at is tracking things like temperature and HRV during the night, and presenting data you can actually do something with. However, it is not a fitness tracker, more a health tracker. Have a great day! 😊
Yeah, Garmin's not gonna lend you any of their devices because you actually have quantifiable and measurable methods to show how their devices perform. Would love to see your channel grow so you can buy the devices to review. Subscribed and thank you
Hi Gee Bee! I hope to grow enough that they will feel it is to their advantage to share it with me, but let's see. I want to give my honest opinion, so hopefully they take my findings and explain them to me or take them as suggestions. I can also make mistakes, so I am happy to be proven wrong😊. Thanks so much for subscribing!!
Where have you been all of my life? Fantastic content! Thank you! I love my fenix 6x but you confirm all that I felt about the watch. Thank you for the data points and info.
I love my Fenix 6 for the performance metric tracking … training load, recovery, etc. I can’t justify upgrading at all. And the Epix is an option but even more expensive. Hopefully an AMoELD will come out with the performance tracking features
Hi! For sure, I still need to look more into things like training load etc. This will be super interesting to look at as well😊. Thanks for commenting!!
@@TheQuantifiedScientist The training load seems accurate to me for running. The suggested workouts are based on it and the pace always matches up with the heart rate suggested. But I'd love go see you test it
Another amazing review! Thank you, sir! I tried the Fitbit Luxe for a month last September and while I liked it, I ultimately returned it because I didn't feel it was particularly accurate. Ever since then I've been searching for a non-Apple smartwatch that will really check all the boxes. While it's pretty ridiculous, I'm somehow not entirely opposed to a $700 smartwatch. However, for that much money, I expect at least 90-95% accurate sleep, heart, and step tracking. It's really crazy to release such an expensive device that doesn't meet those accuracy expectations. I remain confident one day such a device will exist and I will become aware of it thanks to your admirable efforts. Thanks again!
Hi John! Really happy to hear that I could be of help to you! Yes, the Luxe is good at sleep tracking, heart rate tracking is OK, but not the best, you need Apple for the very best. Hope you will find a device that matches your needs!
@@TheQuantifiedScientist, yes. The "usual" Garmin, good at heart rate tracking, poor at sleep tracking and SPO2 measurements (although, I must confess that I was expecting that the sleep tracking was a bit more accurate than the previous model, the Fenix 6).
Danke...i was waiting for you to test this one out. You just bring so much valuable data for me..love your reviews. I have fenix 5 and was thinking if this is worth an upgrade
Great review, I have the Garmin Epix 2, hope you can review that one day. I find with my weights workout, the heart rate sensor has been performing so much better than my Fenix 6x pro solar. Running and cycling I have found both watches were very accurate.
Personal experience and feeling of the product are important, but such materials are all over CZcams. Thank you very much for accurately comparing the products based on objective figures and analysis comparisons. I like your analysis activities very much.
I can concur with the sleep stages analysis. My Garmin Epix 2 detects hardly any deep sleep for me and always huge amounts of light sleep. Great watch as a whole but the sleeping algoritm is not as good as on the Fitbit. Then again, I had 3 Fitbit Venus and they ALL broke within 6 months for various reasons (1st screen stuck, 2nd battery isssue, and 3rd becoming a brick). All of them were replaced under warranty until the last one. Then i gave up as I wasn’t even hard on the watch and never swam with it. The Garmin seems to be completely different level of quality.
Great video and very helpful in the covert areas. My needs are somewhat different and I'll have to keep researching, but I can only encourage and thank you.
Hey man, really like the videos and the fact you try to measure the aspect of accuracy of the health trackers. Your channel is on the way to become one of the top reviewers of fitness trackers. Maybe some advice try to make the charts a bit more understandable - the sleep one (separate table for each device & commentary on the difference?) & the heart rate accuracy one (different colours for the different device?).
Hi Petar ! Thanks for the compliment, and also thanks a bunch for the feedback, it really means a lot to see people appreciating and helping👍. Have a great day!
Feedback: The plots for the sleep phases might become a bit easier to read if they were ordered as wake-light-rem-deep, or wake-light-deep-rem, or ordered by whatever is the actual typical sequence of sleep stages. (If that makes the plot hard to read, because the red-highlighted REM phases would now be directly above the labelled x-axis, you could instead revert the order so the wake state is at the bottom and the final phase of the sleep cycle is at the top.
Hi Tobias! Thanks a lot for the feedback. For now I am sticking with what is more or less the convention used in sleep-science, since this also makes it more comparable to the scientific studies I am used to. However, I will see if I can clarify things👍. Check out this if you are interested: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnogram
I just got the Epix for $1000 coming from the Tactix Delta. The new screen and the GPS system accuracy is bananas. Definitely an upgrade, but I may miss the extra battery life on the delta. time will tell
I had a Garmin Vivo 2+ in my basket and decided to watch your review before completing the purchase… you changed my mind and I ended up buying the newer Apple Watch 7 and saving some money
Hi Ronggo! Happy it helped you! I hope to get big enough to be able to play with all the best health trackers that are coming out, and thereby also share my findings with everyone that could get value from that information😊
Hey TQS, you should really retest this since Garmin is now using First Beat Analytics for their Sleep Tracking. I have both the AW and This. This is better in my opinion. Would like to see what you see with the updated Analytics Engine that Garmin is doing.
Military guy here who does manual labor, runs daily and lifts. I want something durable, but I don’t want to pay 700-1000 for a fitness watch. Would you say that the Fenix 6 is good enough for someone who is training for marathons/ultras? And would it be worth spending 400-500 for it instead of say a Forerunner 955 for durability because of my lifestyle?
Hi Rob, Thanks for the analysis. I mostly agree with your findings on this lineup ( Fenix & forerunner 945 ) but i think you miss the point about theses watches. These are primarily sports watches and functionality are oriented mostly toward endurance sport - Anaerobic load - Aerobic load - Performance analysis ( VO2Max ) - ... etc And algorithm on recovery and workout suggestion So when they don't read sleep stages perfectly, it's not really a problem. What i think most of the users care is if it predict accurately " Readiness " ( Body Battery / HRV Stress ) for the next workout ( and / or a good workout suggestion ) And i don't have a answer to theses last ones :)
Hi Frederic! Thanks so much for the feedback and also for being such a long-term watcher of my videos! Yes, you are right, I did not address these other features, really good point! I will have to look into that more. About the sleep stages; the question is how important these values are in predicting the " Readiness " ( Body Battery / HRV Stress ) for the next workout. I don't know, I would have to dig into a bit more. Hopefully I'll get (even) more knowledgable about Garmin devices over time😊. This kind of feedback helps!
Very important point here. If HR und SpO2 sensors are the only real inputs Garmin has for their algorithm based predictions, then you really have to question these recommendations in the first place, if the data that these are based on are not reliable
@@TheQuantifiedScientist : Hi Rob, if you do so. Don't forget to go to setting -> System -> 1 - Perf Cond : On 2 - Data Recording : Every Second 3 - Log HRV : Yes
Hi. I don't fully agree with you on that. Garmin Fenix are the flagships from Garmin and they are priced accordingly. On the one hand, if I spend 700e on a watch, I don't want to cherry-pick which features I want more (health features or tracking features) to decide between a Venu and a Fenix, I want them all. On the other hand, HR readings directly affect the accuracy of important sport metrics, like VO2max; and your sleep quality affects your body battery, your stress, etc., which in turn is needed to calculate how hard you are ready to train.
@@jesuslcampillo1989 : If you want every features there is because it's a flagship and it cost little hundreds more. It's your opinion. And i could agree if they were designed for the same customers. But they aren't ! Some features are designed for endurance sport, some are for nice smart watches. And on top of that, difference like external speakers would make absolute no sense into a an outdoor/endurance sport watch. If you want an external speaker, don't buy a Fenix If yoy want a nice amoled display, don't buy a Fenix If you want LTE connectivity, don't buy a Fenix right now ( could be a nice feature to have from a security perspective ) If you want Cycling VO2Max don't buy a venu If you want Trail VO2MAX don't buy a venu if you want Cycling power, don't buy a venu If you want Rugged materiel, don't buy a venu ... etc etc I completely agree that sleep quality is essential for recovery. About sleep stage, I think we would all agree that more accuracy would be nice overall but from a endurance sport athlete perspective it's irrelevant. And of course, inaccurate data read cannot give good analysis/feedback/recommendation but these meta-data ( body battery / stress ) are mostly come with heart rate frequency / variability stuff. So heart rate accuracy testing is relevant. On a personal level, i wear a chest strap for almost every running, cycling "type" workout
Another excellent review! So, I will continue to use my Garmin 1030 Edge for GPS tracking, and purchased the Vivomove Sport for tracking health metrics etc. And saved a few hundred dollars:>)
Great review. Interesting to know whether health tracking changed with updates. I've also noticed that Garmin tracks sleep depending on people differently. For my wife it performs terribly (vivoactive 4s). For me okay-ish. Current I've got fenix 7s for a huge discount (400 euro). The main reason to upgrade was GPS navigation. You can easily rely for a day of navigation with great display readability in every weather condition. I had a Fitbit charge 3. The only thing it was good at, was sleep. Fitbit was totally unusable outside on the street not even like a watch. The quality of Fitbit was terrible (i think i got several replacement devices during warrenty time... Complete garbage). Garnin is ob the contrary built like a tank. I was hiking, swimming, cycling and working out with it... it just lasts.
I had the Fenix 6 and now have the Epix 2. The SP02 and sleep tracking are disappointing. One strange effect I have found with the SPO2 is that it seems to get more accurate as the measurement proceeds, eg if you are doing a health check up the detected value will increase during the 2 minutes. I used to track it during sleep but I no longer do that since it is almost useless and the Epix already has lower battery life so I don't need to further reduce it by wasting it on spurious measurements.
Hi Antonio! Yes, for sure, that would make complete sense. Especially things like sleep tracking are heavily dependent on the algorithms and software used. As a new device launches there are often things that can be improved. Thanks for watching!
For the Sleep tracking part we dont know if the Fenix 7 has the same 3d Positioning Sensor as vivomove. And maybe other Hardware or electric fields in the watch are interfering.
Hi! Yeah, might well be. Or maybe the algorithm is trained on me somehow, and it is thrown off by the other watches that were connected to the same Garmin Account before. I have a few accounts that I connect the watches to, and the Fenix 7 is connected to the same account the Venu 2 Plus was connected to before.
It would be great if you did a comprehensive test of the Fenix's solar charging capabilities. I haven't seen anyone else do it, and Garmin claims that the solar charging significantly increases battery life. It would be cool if you could find a way to verify their claims.
also how stable watch is on the wrist. Fenix is pretty heavy and bulky. And Venu accuracy, giving the same sensor, firmware and software (HRM part of it), does correlate - they are lighter and more accurate
Hi! from what I read, when the Apple sensor was being developed, the engineers wanted to recommend wearing it tight to get an accurate reading, like most other manufacturers. However, some executive at Apple was insistent that was not how people wear watches. So, he told them it should be accurate under many different ways of wearing it. I guess they invested a lot of time and money (which Apple has) to optimize both the hardware and software. And indeed, it has the added benefit of being more light weight.
@@TheQuantifiedScientist also, looks like they use much more energy for this task (lasers, sensor, processing). I think this is one of the reasons of pitty battery life time while recording workouts when you need to do measurements constantly. (I may be wrong tho, just common knowledge of embedded systems and data mining) On the other hand garmin's chipsets and sensor are prioritizing efficiency. So, as usual in engineering - tradeoffs. And still, for workouts, intervals, etc chest HRM is more reliable, just because of principles of operation. But what apple did with optical HRM is impessive.
Never forget that Garmin's software support is excellent. I am sure they'll fix issues right away. They use the best sensors avaible for humankind. If there is no hardware-based issue, they'll fix it.
I bet it all boils down to the considerable more weight of the Fenix series when on the wrist! The lighter the device the more stable the readings because the sensors don't move on the skin...
I just discovered your channel and I immediately subscribed, thanks for the substantial effort ! In regards to why the Venu 2 is better at HR tracking than both Fenix 7 and Venu 2 Plus, one explanation could be that the Venu 2 has a more mature firmware than the others which are very new on the market. They will probably improve to the same levels after a couple of updates, or at least this is my assumption. In regards to why the Vivomove Sport is better at sleep tracking, it's interesting because it has the previous generation sensor in comparison to Venu 2/Plus and Fenix 7. That sensor firmware is very mature, being used in most Garmin's devices for over 2 years now, so I assume this is the reason.
I'd be willing to bet that your comparisons to the Venu2 didn't favor the fenix because of form factor. I'd bet that a 42mm 7S would perform like the venu2 because they're both the 42mm form factor. One of the reasons Apple went to a rectangular design was to place the sensors on your wrist's sweet spot. I don't think a lot of people are aware that bigger isn't always better, especially when a wrist OHR is involved. I'm seeing this with a 7S and a 7, the 7S outperforms the larger 7 in all things heart rate. I'd love to see these tests run with a 7S.
Hi Cattenso! That makes complete sense then👍. Indeed, there is a target audience for all devices, and I think the Fenix 7 line is quite niche, but there will be people that love it😊
I suspect that any given device's weight and size play a role in sensor accuracy. I would like you to do a correlation analysis of this idea across all devices. For example, I think there is a reason the Charge 5's accuracy is comparatively high compared to other high-quality but larger devices (garmin). And Garmin has non-intuitive variance in its own devices, where the lighter and cheaper device is more accurate than the heavier/bulkier and more expensive device.
Hi! Thanks for the idea Dave! My take on it: For heart rate this might well play a roll, though I would have expected things to affect cycling outside a lot (which it doesn't seem to). For sleep I do not expect it to make that much of a difference, unless it is really poorly positioned throughout the night. 😄
@@TheQuantifiedScientist interesting perspectives - I would also be very interested in knowing if watch size does indeed make a difference or wrist size does, or combination of watch size with wrist size, or bmi (perhaps fatter/slimmer wrists make a difference?), or perhaps where on the wrist the watch is worn or how tight the strap is. I have a Garmin FR735XT and when I hot it, it was immediately apparent that most body metrics it produce are useless (hrm, sleep stages) - perhaps it"s just not a good match with my wrist? Doubt it though as my wrist is pretty ordinary another two Garmin devices performed similarly. How tight do you wear the watch during tests? Oh, and thank you so much for your reviews!!! They are another level - hope more and more people get interested and follow you.
Thank you, this was exactly what I needed. I want to upgrade my Fenix 5 but haven't decided If I should stay with Garmin or go with some other brand. I would like if you had some top 5 type of listing of the most overall accurate watches or something like that.
Hello! As soon you are scientist in the area, can you clearify some questions? I'm pretty sure it will be intersting not just for me. 1) It looks like, there is a fundamental problem of sleep stage detecion using just watches. Do you know this problem? Can you explain it to us? Can wathce do measures better? How precise your "precise" device? How does it detect sleep stage? 2) May be you have a knowledge about precise HRV detection. Can smartwatches, while having problems with correct HR counting, correctly detect HRV and how precise it will be? How (when) to measure it to be it useful? 3) That is the resting HR actually? How (when) to measure it to be it useful? UPD. There are other relativly exotic features: SPO2, cardiogramm and so on. Is it serious to have a cardiogramm from watches?
Hi Andrej! (1) Watches use different inputs to estimate your sleep stages, thinks like movement, heart rate, skin temperature, HRV, SpO2. Check out this video: czcams.com/video/pwMpxthBaOo/video.html (basically my first video ever) (2) Yes, some watches or wearables can detect HRV. However, most likely this will only work well when you are not moving much, e.g. during sleep. This is likely also when it is most usefull. However, question is if it has much added value over just your resting heart rate for general health tracking (3) Resting heart rate can tell you about your daily sleep quality and also overall fitness level. It will also vary with the seasons though, so be awate of that.
Great review! You just saved me from making bad purchase. I think I’ll continue with my Apple Watch until Garmin fixes their fake sleep analyzers. Thank you!
Hi Ben! Happy it helped! As I mentioned, I do think there is a marked for this watch. However, it will be people that are super active and like to go hiking or skiing a lot. If not, I would recommend other watches as likely more suitable. 😊 Thanks for watching!
Thanks for a thorough review. Very disappointing. I was hoping to upgrade to Epix or Fenix 7 from my Galaxy watch Active 2. I guess a watch that tries to do everything has to compromise on the individual features. It's a lot of money. But battery life, maps and all the metrics are really amazing.
Hi Richard! Yes, for sure, I think it is all about priorities with the different watches. If maps and battery life are most important, the Fenix 7 could be the way forward. If you are a more "average" consumer, it might be overkill😊. Thanks for watching!!
A Huawei gt3 has better HR than a Garmin fenix 7? Incredibly, it seems that calibrating it with software is the most important thing in these cases. We love your videos, keep it up, greetings from Peru.
Hi! Well the Venu 2 actually was very close, not sure why I am getting different results here. 🤨🤓 Hopefully I can change some settings at some point to improve things
I own the Garmin quatix 6x solar, and I bought polar h10, just because of your videos. After 5 consecutive weightlifting workouts with the watch in the inside of the wrist (less hair), my conclusion is that the watch was 99% accurate only on leg workouts, on all other workouts it really was not accurate. I have overlapped the hr graph. If anyone wants to are it I can send it. I decided to keep the chest strap and use it for hr measurement.
Disappointing results for a 700e watch. But it would be interesting to repeat the test 6-8 months down the line to see if Garmin improves it with software updates or if they think that advertisement and brand recognition would do the job sales wise...
Hi Rob, You are the only one who checks sleep tracking accuracy, - edpecialky scientifically - so it's pretty much appreciated. Let me have one advise though, if I may: The heart rate tests are also good although could be a little more comprehensive. I mean..You almost never test steady state cardio. Your tests typically include interval or strength training (which is basically interval). Having one session of 5k run or 20km indoor bike ride at steady pace would widen the scope. Typical sport watch users buying their wathes for long running steady state outdoor activity - and this is where these watches shine. So maybe seeing how the watch performs on this area would be even more interesting than interval trainings. Just my 2 cents:). Eithet way just keep making these videos!;)
Hi Gergely! First of all, let me thanks you for your very considerate and kind message, it is really appreciated! 😊Indeed some more heart rate testing would be good. However, it is mostly limited by the time I have, and the kinds of sports I prefer to do. I would realistically have to find someone else to do those activities, and this would just time-wise usually be included in a second video, given the time-sensitive nature of releasing these videos. That being said, it is really good for me to hear what people prefer to see. Thank you so much and have a wonderful day!😊
Good comparison. Garmin drops prices before they launch a new model (about 40% drop). So maybe a Fenix 6 might make more sense over the 7 if you can find one.
Thank you for all your reviews--consistently thorough, useful, and above par for the field. Can't wait to see what you think of the new Garmin Venu 3/3S watches with the Elevate 5 heart rate sensor and sleep coach/nap detection features, particularly as it compares to signiicantly less expensive, high performing Venu 2/2S. Subscribed and ready to check those out when you have them. Garmin should definitely be sending you every single watch upon release for review...😊
@@TheQuantifiedScientist My grand idea is that if you are willing to spend that much for a Fenix, you might as well spend $175 more and use the Vivosport Move for sleep tracking 🤓
Another amazing review, Rob! Thanks a lot for justifying my switch to Apple again! I am happy to see some improvements, but still not enough to justify the price tag.
Now that you sank their flagship, I'm sure you have Garmin's attention, Rob ! Don't hold you breath regarding them sending you watches for free to test ...
Hi Jan! Well, hopefully I can make videos of enough quality and of a special angle that they feel it good to share devices with me. It really makes a big difference to get them at release it terms of the number if people CZcams recommends the video too. So, hopefully they will include me next time. I might also start a patreon or something, just to make me less hesitant to buy these (would love to get the Epix 2 to test)... Thanks for being supportive👍
apple watch battery life for me: 25%/day discharge on average, 10%/hr discharge during workouts. So, with my style 1hr workout/day battery lasts 2 days for me. I will always choose sensors precision to battery life, I can charge it daily ez
If you are buying a watch just for health tracking or basic sports get another watch. But if you do a lot of outdoor activities especially activities requiring navigation like backpacking and skiing then it may be worth getting this watch.
As soon as I saw the Fitbit sense at the top I started doubting the graph. My Fitbit sense (I've had for a year) has been consistently inconsistent. I'm moving to the Fenix to hopefully have a more accurate experience. Fingers crossed
It’s so frustrating to me that these devices are barely getting better… I’ve been waiting for years and still it’s as if the features are done to check boxes and they don’t care about actual results
Thanks for the review! I was really looking forward to this as I own a Fenix 6s and it's as disappointing :) Not sure if you're already applying a low pass on your mic, but it could improve the sound quality even further
Hi Sonny! Thanks for the comment and thanks for being subscribed! Indeed, I need to look into my audio and video quality more. I am experimenting, and hopefully things are improving over time. I'll look into low pass filter, now sure what that means honestly🙈
basically cutting really low and / or high frequencies that don't really affect human voice frequency range :) your audio is pretty good already, so I'm nitpicking 😅
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Do Asus Vivowatch SP (or 5) pleeeease :) Anyway, keep your work up!
Y
P
Ilk
Would be great to see you evaluating the most sophisticated metrics offered by Garmin, such as *Training Efect* , *Epoc* , *HRV* and *Recovery time*
I had a feeling it wouldnt be any better than the fenix 6. Can you please review the Fenix epix 2 thats the one im looking at but not sure if its worth the price tag.
Great review man you saved me alot of money and i dont have much lol thankyou.
Great stuff - your reviews are so much better than anyone else's.
Thanks so much! This one was quite a bit of work, but I hope it will prove to be of value for people 😊 . What do you think of the Fenix 7?
@@TheQuantifiedScientist venu 2 plus also had already updates, and F7 had not. count also this. Apple watch can be more accurate because it has nylon strap and it does not band and the watches are not round, they are square so when You move Your arm the moves less
It’s disappointing that the F7 didn’t perform a bit better (especially on sleep tracking). Thank you for taking the time to do such thorough testing!
Hi! For sure. Honestly, it was a bit of a coin toss for me if the sleep tracking would be more like the Venu 2 Plus (not great) or Vivomove Sport (pretty good). Maybe I can find some setting that makes the difference in the end. Or, maybe make a new account, in case it trains the sleep tracking algorithm for each individual, and re-training the algorithm could improve results.😊
@@TheQuantifiedScientist I also wonder if they'll continue to tighten up the F7 over time. I ditched my Whoop for its lack of overall accuracy, so hoping my F7S continues to improve. I also wonder if it could be a fit issue for you? I have a smaller wrist so ended up going for the 7S and it seems pretty spot on for me and showing 4 deep sleep cycles and 6 REM cycles per night.
@@whaleshark2625 I have a Fenix 6 pro and have consistently received updates throughout ownership, including the last few months while the 7 was released
My 245 is better then fenix 6 pro £500 cheaper too
A $150,000 Mercedes car that only looks cool but drives like a tractor would be hardly acceptable. A $700 watch that is every day wrong by 10 minutes would be a scandal. A $ 700 smartmatch that is stupid to me is this: A cheat.
The Fēnix 7 is now up to version 13.22.
You should do an update.
The watch came out a year ago and I don’t expect it to be 100% accurate the moment it’s released.
After a few software updates, I’m confident that now it should be on par with the other watches you mentioned.
I feel my Fēnix 7 Sapphire Solar is pretty accurate. And yes, I bought it a few months ago for the advanced features-mostly for Spartan racing.
Give it another go and let us know.
A new review given the software updates would be great!!
Funny era where every piece of software need half a dozen updates to work as expected, early adopter are thus penalized and becomes alpha/beta testers although they paid the premium price point
It would be great to retest the watch with the 9.xx Version … there is a lot of improvements 🎉
I'd second that. Hopefully Garmin have ported the algorithm from the Vivomove Sport.
I'm also interested about this.
My F7X is version 13.22 now.
Also interested in a retest with the updated software
As a nerd myself, your videos give me just the information I needed, sharing your channel with all my nerdy friends. Great work, man
Hi Ankit! That is really highly appreciated. Thanks for watching!
One thing (among many) that I really appreciate about your reviews is that you’re not biased. You’re not one of the Garmin Fan Boys that never criticize Garmin wearables & pretend to be unbiased.
Hey,
Considering you test all the apple watches even with beta software, it would be nice if you could update fenix 7 to latest software and compare it again with some other watches. I own Fenix 6 pro and they constantly improve the watch and are adding features.
Thank you for you'r reviews, I think they are the best ones on youtoube! Don't stop filming ^^
Take care!
You might want to try it again. Garmin came out with a massive update 5 days ago. It now detects movement in sleep like Fitbit and I noticed I went from usually reading awake 5 minutes to now reading 30 minutes. I wore a Fitbit Charge 5 on my other wrist and they both matched up identical.
I too would be interested in seeing how it works on Software Version 8.21.
Can't thank you enough for your efforts, Rob.
Thanks Tawfeeq!
Nice one Rob! I think one of the big variables with the Fenix line is the overall size and weight when it comes to optical HR performance. Considering these devices have the exact same sensor as the Venu 2 Plus / 945 LTE they should perform similarly. But, due to that larger size and weight they bounce on the wrist or end up flexing away from contact with your skin which causes the deviations you're seeing. Love your approach with these. Keep it up!
Thanks Dave! I hope my videos are complimentary to the videos you (and others like Des and Ray) make, each of us taking a slightly different angle😊 . You also keep it up! You are killing it with your view counts (+ the sheer quantity of videos is amazing the last weeks👍)!
@@TheQuantifiedScientist Just as Dave mentioned, my best guess why they are so differ in collecting data is because of difference in size and the way they fit on the wrist. I can surely tell that my Vivoactive 4 and Fenix 6 Pro sits quite differently on my wrist and even that they share similar sensors I get a quite different results when compare them side by side.
Garmin also seems to tweak algorithms a lot, so I hope that they can tweak it with the time and you can make another review of the watch after some time.
BTW I've tried a few brands of watches and compared sleep tracking side by side, and so far Fenix 6 seems to be leading in this department. And I have a guess that it's because it's for a while on the market, and they polished the algorithm during this time to work nicely.
@@TheQuantifiedScientist ishtuk jugia baichung vutia?
Great information! I own a fenix, and your test confirm my suspicions about the mediocrity of the sleep and SpO2 readings. And you're completely correct--I use my watch mainly to track and navigate when I'm far from civilization, and I use it to help improve my fitness before field seasons. The bio metrics are nice (and taken with a large grain of salt), but it's definitely not the main selling point of this watch.
One test I'd like to see is measuring a known distance, altitude Δ, speed, etc., and comparing against what a device records. It may be easier said than done as you should probably normalize those data against the number of satellites acquired, terrain, etc., but I'm sure you'd make it work :) Also, it may be interesting to test other metrics given by training watches like VO2 max, race predictions, and recovery time.
Anyway, thanks for making these! I really love your data-driven reviews!
Wow, really love this input! The way I use these watches can really deviate from how others use it, and what their priorities are, so this is really valuable!! Thanks so much First Last!
@First Last, did you consider the Garmin Instinct instead of the Fenix? Seems like it may have been a better fit, but I don't know about accuracy, at least until Rob here runs the gamut on it XD
@@AndresGuzman87 I’ve been wearing a fenix since before the instinct came out. I think the instinct would work well, but for my job topo maps on my wrist are a lifesaver. I also wouldn’t want to lose the sapphire, all of the training metrics, and activity profiles that the fenix has.
i have been really interest in the fenix because of the topo and maps features. i do a lot of out doors stuff like hiking, dirt bike riding, camping, orienteering and rappelling. i am wondering how reliable and accurate the maps and breadcrumb features are. it would be healpful for desert treks and hunting as well. i would like to hear your opinion on the watch. what do you think of the gps, maps and features? thanks.
@@SomeReefer the maps are very reliable and accurate, and the GPS has gotten more precise with the fenix 7, also easier to navigate with now that it has a touch screen. The topo maps aren’t the most detailed maps I’ve ever seen, but they are really good for viewing on a 1.4 inch circular screen.
I’m extremely happy with the fenix 6 pro solar that I got for a few hundred less than the new fenix 7. My only issue is the sleep tracking as well. I have an older Garmin watch that seems more accurate on sleep tracking.
Hi Jmac! Thanks for sharing! Indeed, if something new releases, many people feel the need to upgrade. However, always sleep on it a few weeks, since improvements are only incremental. Personally I would try to do the research, find the best device at the time, and keep it until the battery is failing (which is hopefully 3-4 years later). I think that is an ideal situation, given the speed of developments
Thanks for this review. In a way, I kinda expected that the heart rate accuracy wouldn't be top notch because of the size of the Fenix 7. This means that unless you use a chest strap paired to the Fenix 7, you wouldn't get very accurate training load metrics from the watch
Great review Rob ! The people demanded a Fenix review and you more than delivered ;)
My only criticism: The qualitative GPS tests don't really fit to the spirit of your channel. Also, people already get these kind of tests from other reviewers. I would LOVE it if you could maybe walk on some kind of pavement marking (set a standard test course, preferably with some tall buildings on the way, and some trees in another section) in both directions and provide a percentage overlap or something like that. Give us more numbers ! :D
Don't want to sound too picky though. Your reviews are already among my favorites :)
Hi Michael! Thanks for the compliment and the feedback😊. Yes, I am thinking about ways of making the GPS tests more quantitative. I already think that by doing the same route multiple times gives some value, but it could be more quantitative indeed. I do think there will always be some overlap with other reviewers, and this is actually good, because we can see if the results are consistent🧪
Could you do another Scientist's Review since Garmin is based mostly on software calculations, so would be nice to see if there are any improvements during the time. :)
Yes! Thanks for reviewing this I was hoping you'd be getting one. I've had the Fenix 5X for about three years now and it appears the sleep tracking isn't any better on the 7. I've worn my 5X alongside my Aura gen 2 and now gen 3. Aura isn't perfect but I've felt it is more accurate with the sleep tracking which appears to be what you've found as well.
Hi David! Indeed the Oura is better, but it should still improve over the next year to be among the top. What Oura is really good at is tracking things like temperature and HRV during the night, and presenting data you can actually do something with. However, it is not a fitness tracker, more a health tracker. Have a great day! 😊
By far the best review of Garmin Fenix 7. Thank you.
Yeah, Garmin's not gonna lend you any of their devices because you actually have quantifiable and measurable methods to show how their devices perform. Would love to see your channel grow so you can buy the devices to review. Subscribed and thank you
Hi Gee Bee! I hope to grow enough that they will feel it is to their advantage to share it with me, but let's see. I want to give my honest opinion, so hopefully they take my findings and explain them to me or take them as suggestions. I can also make mistakes, so I am happy to be proven wrong😊. Thanks so much for subscribing!!
Where have you been all of my life? Fantastic content! Thank you! I love my fenix 6x but you confirm all that I felt about the watch. Thank you for the data points and info.
I love my Fenix 6 for the performance metric tracking … training load, recovery, etc. I can’t justify upgrading at all. And the Epix is an option but even more expensive. Hopefully an AMoELD will come out with the performance tracking features
Hi! For sure, I still need to look more into things like training load etc. This will be super interesting to look at as well😊. Thanks for commenting!!
@@TheQuantifiedScientist The training load seems accurate to me for running. The suggested workouts are based on it and the pace always matches up with the heart rate suggested. But I'd love go see you test it
@@natesilvers2166 ditto
This is the most awaited review, thx for your work Rob
Thanks so much Fernando!
Another amazing review! Thank you, sir!
I tried the Fitbit Luxe for a month last September and while I liked it, I ultimately returned it because I didn't feel it was particularly accurate. Ever since then I've been searching for a non-Apple smartwatch that will really check all the boxes.
While it's pretty ridiculous, I'm somehow not entirely opposed to a $700 smartwatch. However, for that much money, I expect at least 90-95% accurate sleep, heart, and step tracking. It's really crazy to release such an expensive device that doesn't meet those accuracy expectations.
I remain confident one day such a device will exist and I will become aware of it thanks to your admirable efforts. Thanks again!
Hi John! Really happy to hear that I could be of help to you! Yes, the Luxe is good at sleep tracking, heart rate tracking is OK, but not the best, you need Apple for the very best. Hope you will find a device that matches your needs!
Thanks for this review Rob!, will share this far a wide so your channel gets more traction. Great job as always!
Thanks so much zzz. Really happy it proved to be of value for you 😊
Thanks Rob! Amazing as always. Have a great week ahead!
Thanks so much Xavier! I really appreciate it 🙏🏽
This is probably the best, most objective review that I have come across of the Fenix 7. Many thanks!
This is a fantastic research! Keep on growing your channel.
Thanks Philip! It is a lot of work, but hopefully I can grow faster and faster 😊 and bring value to people
I was waiting for this. Thank you!
Thanks! Did the Fenix 7 perform as you expected based on the review?
@@TheQuantifiedScientist, yes. The "usual" Garmin, good at heart rate tracking, poor at sleep tracking and SPO2 measurements (although, I must confess that I was expecting that the sleep tracking was a bit more accurate than the previous model, the Fenix 6).
Thank you for all your hard work. Very much appreciated!
Hi Farkas! Thank you for commenting and for watching the video. These compliments mean a lot to keep me motivated😊
Danke...i was waiting for you to test this one out. You just bring so much valuable data for me..love your reviews. I have fenix 5 and was thinking if this is worth an upgrade
Hi IT! Thanks for the compliment, it is really appreciated, and happy you enjoy the reviews😊. If you ever have any ideas, let me know
Great review, I have the Garmin Epix 2, hope you can review that one day. I find with my weights workout, the heart rate sensor has been performing so much better than my Fenix 6x pro solar. Running and cycling I have found both watches were very accurate.
This is awesome work man! Highly appreciated!
Glad you liked it Laurențiu! Thanks for commenting and appreciate the compliments😊
Personal experience and feeling of the product are important, but such materials are all over CZcams.
Thank you very much for accurately comparing the products based on objective figures and analysis comparisons.
I like your analysis activities very much.
I can concur with the sleep stages analysis. My Garmin Epix 2 detects hardly any deep sleep for me and always huge amounts of light sleep. Great watch as a whole but the sleeping algoritm is not as good as on the Fitbit. Then again, I had 3 Fitbit Venus and they ALL broke within 6 months for various reasons (1st screen stuck, 2nd battery isssue, and 3rd becoming a brick). All of them were replaced under warranty until the last one. Then i gave up as I wasn’t even hard on the watch and never swam with it. The Garmin seems to be completely different level of quality.
Great video and very helpful in the covert areas. My needs are somewhat different and I'll have to keep researching, but I can only encourage and thank you.
Dear Ralph! That is so kind of you to say, and for you to take the time to write this comment. It is highly appreciated. Have a great day!
Love this channel, it’s my go to channel whenever I need to upgrade my tech in terms of smartwatches! 👌
The only channel who shares reviews with showing facts and it's so underrated i hope you reached more than a millions subs you deserves it❤️❤️
Thanks so much kuro oh !!
Can you revisit the Fenix 7 after the updates to software and firmware have been completed?
Hey man, really like the videos and the fact you try to measure the aspect of accuracy of the health trackers. Your channel is on the way to become one of the top reviewers of fitness trackers. Maybe some advice try to make the charts a bit more understandable - the sleep one (separate table for each device & commentary on the difference?) & the heart rate accuracy one (different colours for the different device?).
Hi Petar ! Thanks for the compliment, and also thanks a bunch for the feedback, it really means a lot to see people appreciating and helping👍. Have a great day!
Would love to see a video seeing how tweaking the settings (such as increasing the frequency of HR, GPS, O2 reads)
Feedback: The plots for the sleep phases might become a bit easier to read if they were ordered as wake-light-rem-deep, or wake-light-deep-rem, or ordered by whatever is the actual typical sequence of sleep stages. (If that makes the plot hard to read, because the red-highlighted REM phases would now be directly above the labelled x-axis, you could instead revert the order so the wake state is at the bottom and the final phase of the sleep cycle is at the top.
Hi Tobias! Thanks a lot for the feedback. For now I am sticking with what is more or less the convention used in sleep-science, since this also makes it more comparable to the scientific studies I am used to. However, I will see if I can clarify things👍. Check out this if you are interested: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnogram
I just got the Epix for $1000 coming from the Tactix Delta. The new screen and the GPS system accuracy is bananas. Definitely an upgrade, but I may miss the extra battery life on the delta. time will tell
I had a Garmin Vivo 2+ in my basket and decided to watch your review before completing the purchase… you changed my mind and I ended up buying the newer Apple Watch 7 and saving some money
this channel should and will gain its place among top reviewers
bought charge 5 after watching your videos
Hi Ronggo! Happy it helped you! I hope to get big enough to be able to play with all the best health trackers that are coming out, and thereby also share my findings with everyone that could get value from that information😊
Hey TQS, you should really retest this since Garmin is now using First Beat Analytics for their Sleep Tracking.
I have both the AW and This. This is better in my opinion. Would like to see what you see with the updated Analytics Engine that Garmin is doing.
Military guy here who does manual labor, runs daily and lifts. I want something durable, but I don’t want to pay 700-1000 for a fitness watch. Would you say that the Fenix 6 is good enough for someone who is training for marathons/ultras? And would it be worth spending 400-500 for it instead of say a Forerunner 955 for durability because of my lifestyle?
Rob I subscribed to hear about fitbit charge 5 but I am hooked now to every review you do, thanks!
Hi MH P! That is so kind to hear, I really appreciate it 😊
Hi Rob, Thanks for the analysis. I mostly agree with your findings on this lineup ( Fenix & forerunner 945 ) but i think you miss the point about theses watches.
These are primarily sports watches and functionality are oriented mostly toward endurance sport
- Anaerobic load
- Aerobic load
- Performance analysis ( VO2Max )
- ... etc
And algorithm on recovery and workout suggestion
So when they don't read sleep stages perfectly, it's not really a problem. What i think most of the users care is if it predict accurately " Readiness " ( Body Battery / HRV Stress ) for the next workout ( and / or a good workout suggestion )
And i don't have a answer to theses last ones :)
Hi Frederic! Thanks so much for the feedback and also for being such a long-term watcher of my videos! Yes, you are right, I did not address these other features, really good point! I will have to look into that more. About the sleep stages; the question is how important these values are in predicting the " Readiness " ( Body Battery / HRV Stress ) for the next workout. I don't know, I would have to dig into a bit more. Hopefully I'll get (even) more knowledgable about Garmin devices over time😊. This kind of feedback helps!
Very important point here. If HR und SpO2 sensors are the only real inputs Garmin has for their algorithm based predictions, then you really have to question these recommendations in the first place, if the data that these are based on are not reliable
@@TheQuantifiedScientist : Hi Rob, if you do so. Don't forget to go to setting -> System ->
1 - Perf Cond : On
2 - Data Recording : Every Second
3 - Log HRV : Yes
Hi. I don't fully agree with you on that. Garmin Fenix are the flagships from Garmin and they are priced accordingly. On the one hand, if I spend 700e on a watch, I don't want to cherry-pick which features I want more (health features or tracking features) to decide between a Venu and a Fenix, I want them all. On the other hand, HR readings directly affect the accuracy of important sport metrics, like VO2max; and your sleep quality affects your body battery, your stress, etc., which in turn is needed to calculate how hard you are ready to train.
@@jesuslcampillo1989 : If you want every features there is because it's a flagship and it cost little hundreds more. It's your opinion. And i could agree if they were designed for the same customers. But they aren't !
Some features are designed for endurance sport, some are for nice smart watches. And on top of that, difference like external speakers would make absolute no sense into a an outdoor/endurance sport watch.
If you want an external speaker, don't buy a Fenix
If yoy want a nice amoled display, don't buy a Fenix
If you want LTE connectivity, don't buy a Fenix right now ( could be a nice feature to have from a security perspective )
If you want Cycling VO2Max don't buy a venu
If you want Trail VO2MAX don't buy a venu
if you want Cycling power, don't buy a venu
If you want Rugged materiel, don't buy a venu
... etc etc
I completely agree that sleep quality is essential for recovery. About sleep stage, I think we would all agree that more accuracy would be nice overall but from a endurance sport athlete perspective it's irrelevant.
And of course, inaccurate data read cannot give good analysis/feedback/recommendation but these meta-data ( body battery / stress ) are mostly come with heart rate frequency / variability stuff. So heart rate accuracy testing is relevant.
On a personal level, i wear a chest strap for almost every running, cycling "type" workout
Another excellent review! So, I will continue to use my Garmin 1030 Edge for GPS tracking, and purchased the Vivomove Sport for tracking health metrics etc. And saved a few hundred dollars:>)
Hi A Merson! Happy you found it helpful 🙏🏽. Thanks for sharing your take on things👍
Thanks you for such a great review of really important features of the device!
Thanks Vitalii! Thanks so much for taking the time for the compliment and for being a subscriber😊
Great review. Interesting to know whether health tracking changed with updates. I've also noticed that Garmin tracks sleep depending on people differently. For my wife it performs terribly (vivoactive 4s). For me okay-ish. Current I've got fenix 7s for a huge discount (400 euro).
The main reason to upgrade was GPS navigation. You can easily rely for a day of navigation with great display readability in every weather condition.
I had a Fitbit charge 3. The only thing it was good at, was sleep. Fitbit was totally unusable outside on the street not even like a watch. The quality of Fitbit was terrible (i think i got several replacement devices during warrenty time... Complete garbage).
Garnin is ob the contrary built like a tank. I was hiking, swimming, cycling and working out with it... it just lasts.
I had the Fenix 6 and now have the Epix 2. The SP02 and sleep tracking are disappointing. One strange effect I have found with the SPO2 is that it seems to get more accurate as the measurement proceeds, eg if you are doing a health check up the detected value will increase during the 2 minutes. I used to track it during sleep but I no longer do that since it is almost useless and the Epix already has lower battery life so I don't need to further reduce it by wasting it on spurious measurements.
Hi PalladianPD ! Thanks for the feedback. Interesting to see that your findings match mine👍
I would say that all are software issues. I think it is a good idea to repeat it in a few months from now
Hi Antonio! Yes, for sure, that would make complete sense. Especially things like sleep tracking are heavily dependent on the algorithms and software used. As a new device launches there are often things that can be improved. Thanks for watching!
You can by a HR strap for the garmin and you will have a better HR reading, and some extra features at logging.
For the Sleep tracking part we dont know if the Fenix 7 has the same 3d Positioning Sensor as vivomove. And maybe other Hardware or electric fields in the watch are interfering.
Hi! Yeah, might well be. Or maybe the algorithm is trained on me somehow, and it is thrown off by the other watches that were connected to the same Garmin Account before. I have a few accounts that I connect the watches to, and the Fenix 7 is connected to the same account the Venu 2 Plus was connected to before.
Your testing confirms my own experiences in terms of sleep tracking. I only use it as a "guide" only.
Hi Nick! Indeed, that makes sense. The total time asleep is probably close enough to keep track of basic things👍
It would be great if you did a comprehensive test of the Fenix's solar charging capabilities. I haven't seen anyone else do it, and Garmin claims that the solar charging significantly increases battery life. It would be cool if you could find a way to verify their claims.
I always wonder what makes Apple watch so good at heart rate tracking, is it the shape of the watch or the sensors or the software?
also how stable watch is on the wrist. Fenix is pretty heavy and bulky. And Venu accuracy, giving the same sensor, firmware and software (HRM part of it), does correlate - they are lighter and more accurate
Hi! from what I read, when the Apple sensor was being developed, the engineers wanted to recommend wearing it tight to get an accurate reading, like most other manufacturers. However, some executive at Apple was insistent that was not how people wear watches. So, he told them it should be accurate under many different ways of wearing it. I guess they invested a lot of time and money (which Apple has) to optimize both the hardware and software. And indeed, it has the added benefit of being more light weight.
@@TheQuantifiedScientist also, looks like they use much more energy for this task (lasers, sensor, processing). I think this is one of the reasons of pitty battery life time while recording workouts when you need to do measurements constantly. (I may be wrong tho, just common knowledge of embedded systems and data mining)
On the other hand garmin's chipsets and sensor are prioritizing efficiency. So, as usual in engineering - tradeoffs.
And still, for workouts, intervals, etc chest HRM is more reliable, just because of principles of operation.
But what apple did with optical HRM is impessive.
Who said this ? 😀 was so worse when I had an apple watch .
@@sez1065 This channel says it on the latest apple watch series 7!
Great review! Shame it didn’t perform better, but the other exercise and training features still make this a winner for me!!
Hi Jason! For sure🙏🏽. I still have to explore some more of the features as well
Never forget that Garmin's software support is excellent. I am sure they'll fix issues right away. They use the best sensors avaible for humankind. If there is no hardware-based issue, they'll fix it.
Thanks for the info! Let's hope it comes quickly!
I bet it all boils down to the considerable more weight of the Fenix series when on the wrist! The lighter the device the more stable the readings because the sensors don't move on the skin...
Hi Aurelie! Indeed that might well be the reason, thanks for the feedback😊
I just discovered your channel and I immediately subscribed, thanks for the substantial effort !
In regards to why the Venu 2 is better at HR tracking than both Fenix 7 and Venu 2 Plus, one explanation could be that the Venu 2 has a more mature firmware than the others which are very new on the market. They will probably improve to the same levels after a couple of updates, or at least this is my assumption.
In regards to why the Vivomove Sport is better at sleep tracking, it's interesting because it has the previous generation sensor in comparison to Venu 2/Plus and Fenix 7. That sensor firmware is very mature, being used in most Garmin's devices for over 2 years now, so I assume this is the reason.
Thanks for the ideas Catalin! It might indeed be firmware related👍
Greater weight can also play a role. Heavier watches move much more during running
I'd be willing to bet that your comparisons to the Venu2 didn't favor the fenix because of form factor. I'd bet that a 42mm 7S would perform like the venu2 because they're both the 42mm form factor. One of the reasons Apple went to a rectangular design was to place the sensors on your wrist's sweet spot.
I don't think a lot of people are aware that bigger isn't always better, especially when a wrist OHR is involved.
I'm seeing this with a 7S and a 7, the 7S outperforms the larger 7 in all things heart rate.
I'd love to see these tests run with a 7S.
Very interesting video! I am super happy with my Fenix 7s but I care more about the fitness tracking than the sleep/spo2 etc.
Hi Cattenso! That makes complete sense then👍. Indeed, there is a target audience for all devices, and I think the Fenix 7 line is quite niche, but there will be people that love it😊
I suspect that any given device's weight and size play a role in sensor accuracy. I would like you to do a correlation analysis of this idea across all devices. For example, I think there is a reason the Charge 5's accuracy is comparatively high compared to other high-quality but larger devices (garmin). And Garmin has non-intuitive variance in its own devices, where the lighter and cheaper device is more accurate than the heavier/bulkier and more expensive device.
Hi! Thanks for the idea Dave! My take on it: For heart rate this might well play a roll, though I would have expected things to affect cycling outside a lot (which it doesn't seem to). For sleep I do not expect it to make that much of a difference, unless it is really poorly positioned throughout the night. 😄
@@TheQuantifiedScientist interesting perspectives - I would also be very interested in knowing if watch size does indeed make a difference or wrist size does, or combination of watch size with wrist size, or bmi (perhaps fatter/slimmer wrists make a difference?), or perhaps where on the wrist the watch is worn or how tight the strap is.
I have a Garmin FR735XT and when I hot it, it was immediately apparent that most body metrics it produce are useless (hrm, sleep stages) - perhaps it"s just not a good match with my wrist? Doubt it though as my wrist is pretty ordinary another two Garmin devices performed similarly.
How tight do you wear the watch during tests?
Oh, and thank you so much for your reviews!!! They are another level - hope more and more people get interested and follow you.
Thank you, this was exactly what I needed. I want to upgrade my Fenix 5 but haven't decided If I should stay with Garmin or go with some other brand. I would like if you had some top 5 type of listing of the most overall accurate watches or something like that.
Glad it was helpful Terroo! I have some things in the works for the best watches overview, but it will take some work😊. Stay tuned!
Hello!
As soon you are scientist in the area, can you clearify some questions? I'm pretty sure it will be intersting not just for me.
1) It looks like, there is a fundamental problem of sleep stage detecion using just watches. Do you know this problem? Can you explain it to us? Can wathce do measures better? How precise your "precise" device? How does it detect sleep stage?
2) May be you have a knowledge about precise HRV detection. Can smartwatches, while having problems with correct HR counting, correctly detect HRV and how precise it will be? How (when) to measure it to be it useful?
3) That is the resting HR actually? How (when) to measure it to be it useful?
UPD.
There are other relativly exotic features: SPO2, cardiogramm and so on. Is it serious to have a cardiogramm from watches?
Hi Andrej!
(1) Watches use different inputs to estimate your sleep stages, thinks like movement, heart rate, skin temperature, HRV, SpO2. Check out this video: czcams.com/video/pwMpxthBaOo/video.html (basically my first video ever)
(2) Yes, some watches or wearables can detect HRV. However, most likely this will only work well when you are not moving much, e.g. during sleep. This is likely also when it is most usefull. However, question is if it has much added value over just your resting heart rate for general health tracking
(3) Resting heart rate can tell you about your daily sleep quality and also overall fitness level. It will also vary with the seasons though, so be awate of that.
Great review! You just saved me from making bad purchase. I think I’ll continue with my Apple Watch until Garmin fixes their fake sleep analyzers. Thank you!
Hi Ben! Happy it helped! As I mentioned, I do think there is a marked for this watch. However, it will be people that are super active and like to go hiking or skiing a lot. If not, I would recommend other watches as likely more suitable. 😊 Thanks for watching!
Same here!
Thanks for a thorough review. Very disappointing. I was hoping to upgrade to Epix or Fenix 7 from my Galaxy watch Active 2. I guess a watch that tries to do everything has to compromise on the individual features. It's a lot of money. But battery life, maps and all the metrics are really amazing.
Hi Richard! Yes, for sure, I think it is all about priorities with the different watches. If maps and battery life are most important, the Fenix 7 could be the way forward. If you are a more "average" consumer, it might be overkill😊. Thanks for watching!!
A Huawei gt3 has better HR than a Garmin fenix 7? Incredibly, it seems that calibrating it with software is the most important thing in these cases. We love your videos, keep it up, greetings from Peru.
Thanks so much Marco! Happy to hear these videos bring some value😊
Thanks for the video! After all the years Garmin still hasn't figure out how to match the Apple watch heart rate...
Hi! Well the Venu 2 actually was very close, not sure why I am getting different results here. 🤨🤓 Hopefully I can change some settings at some point to improve things
It depends on your needs as I enjoy the maps for trail use and was my primary usage IF you don’t want maps WHY by a mapping watch
Hi Tommays56! Indeed, that was exactly the point I was trying to make in the end, but happy to know you agree😊
I own the Garmin quatix 6x solar, and I bought polar h10, just because of your videos. After 5 consecutive weightlifting workouts with the watch in the inside of the wrist (less hair), my conclusion is that the watch was 99% accurate only on leg workouts, on all other workouts it really was not accurate. I have overlapped the hr graph. If anyone wants to are it I can send it. I decided to keep the chest strap and use it for hr measurement.
Disappointing results for a 700e watch. But it would be interesting to repeat the test 6-8 months down the line to see if Garmin improves it with software updates or if they think that advertisement and brand recognition would do the job sales wise...
For sure! I plan to make a few videos about it over time 😊.Thanks for watching Jesus!
Hi Rob,
You are the only one who checks sleep tracking accuracy, - edpecialky scientifically - so it's pretty much appreciated.
Let me have one advise though, if I may: The heart rate tests are also good although could be a little more comprehensive. I mean..You almost never test steady state cardio. Your tests typically include interval or strength training (which is basically interval). Having one session of 5k run or 20km indoor bike ride at steady pace would widen the scope.
Typical sport watch users buying their wathes for long running steady state outdoor activity - and this is where these watches shine. So maybe seeing how the watch performs on this area would be even more interesting than interval trainings. Just my 2 cents:). Eithet way just keep making these videos!;)
Hi Gergely! First of all, let me thanks you for your very considerate and kind message, it is really appreciated! 😊Indeed some more heart rate testing would be good. However, it is mostly limited by the time I have, and the kinds of sports I prefer to do. I would realistically have to find someone else to do those activities, and this would just time-wise usually be included in a second video, given the time-sensitive nature of releasing these videos. That being said, it is really good for me to hear what people prefer to see. Thank you so much and have a wonderful day!😊
HR inaccuracy easy fixed. Use the H10 chest strap with the Fenix instead of the wrist measurement. That's what I do.
Thank you for your effort that you put into this review. The results of your review will help surely many people to decide and perhaps safe money :)
Hi Bovey! Thanks for being a subscriber and thanks for your very kind words 😊
My Fenix 7 is accurate, watching your video it marks as REM ... Jocking.Thank you for your nice review
Good comparison. Garmin drops prices before they launch a new model (about 40% drop). So maybe a Fenix 6 might make more sense over the 7 if you can find one.
Hopefully garmin will notice u rob. All the best! Good video as always 🥰
Just waiting for a device, that gets close to at least 85-90%. I don't care which brand that will be, I'd buy it.
Haha, there's something about you that reminds me of the regretted Hans Rosling while commenting his animated bubble charts. Thanks for the analysis.
Hi! I hope that is positive 😊. He was quite good at explaining things, right?
Thank you for all your reviews--consistently thorough, useful, and above par for the field. Can't wait to see what you think of the new Garmin Venu 3/3S watches with the Elevate 5 heart rate sensor and sleep coach/nap detection features, particularly as it compares to signiicantly less expensive, high performing Venu 2/2S. Subscribed and ready to check those out when you have them. Garmin should definitely be sending you every single watch upon release for review...😊
It’s interesting that the new Vivomove Sport performs so much better at sleep tracking.
Hi John! Yeah, for sure. I still think I must be overlooking something, but I haven't been able to figure it out... Let me know if you have any ideas😊
@@TheQuantifiedScientist My grand idea is that if you are willing to spend that much for a Fenix, you might as well spend $175 more and use the Vivosport Move for sleep tracking 🤓
Sensational! Congratulations! Excellent review!
omg this guy is a genius, I don't know how I didn't know him. My fenix 7s is on its way back. 700usd, I expected better results
If the reviews are all compared to the Dreem 2, aren’t we relying on the accuracy of the headband? How accurate is the Dreem 2?
Thank you for getting this out!
My pleasure! Thanks for watching and commenting!!😊
Another amazing review, Rob! Thanks a lot for justifying my switch to Apple again!
I am happy to see some improvements, but still not enough to justify the price tag.
Hi Anton! Thanks so much, happy to hear that you are enjoying the Apple Watch! Which generation do you use?
Currently I'm using AW series 7.
Now that you sank their flagship, I'm sure you have Garmin's attention, Rob ! Don't hold you breath regarding them sending you watches for free to test ...
Hopefully you more than make up for the additional costs of buying yourself by getting more and viewers, clicks etc. Great reviews, thank you!
Hi Jan! Well, hopefully I can make videos of enough quality and of a special angle that they feel it good to share devices with me. It really makes a big difference to get them at release it terms of the number if people CZcams recommends the video too. So, hopefully they will include me next time. I might also start a patreon or something, just to make me less hesitant to buy these (would love to get the Epix 2 to test)... Thanks for being supportive👍
apple watch battery life for me: 25%/day discharge on average, 10%/hr discharge during workouts.
So, with my style 1hr workout/day battery lasts 2 days for me.
I will always choose sensors precision to battery life, I can charge it daily ez
Hi! That makes complete sense for how you use it 😊👍
Thanks for this review! Sticking with my Apple Watch for now thanks to you👍👍😁
Happy to hear I could help you make a decision Sebastiaan!! have a great day, and thanks for being a subscriber!
If you are buying a watch just for health tracking or basic sports get another watch. But if you do a lot of outdoor activities especially activities requiring navigation like backpacking and skiing then it may be worth getting this watch.
As soon as I saw the Fitbit sense at the top I started doubting the graph. My Fitbit sense (I've had for a year) has been consistently inconsistent. I'm moving to the Fenix to hopefully have a more accurate experience. Fingers crossed
Great review as always. After the your review of tic watch p3u they had an update and now are better.
Hi! I did not have an opportunity to test it unfortunately
I have a question what are the 2 holes between 2 buttons on right of fenix 7.. is it just for show / design ?
It’s so frustrating to me that these devices are barely getting better… I’ve been waiting for years and still it’s as if the features are done to check boxes and they don’t care about actual results
Hi! Thanks for the comment 😊. I do think things are improving over time, however, just not as fast as some of us hope ;-) .
Thanks for the review! I was really looking forward to this as I own a Fenix 6s and it's as disappointing :)
Not sure if you're already applying a low pass on your mic, but it could improve the sound quality even further
Hi Sonny! Thanks for the comment and thanks for being subscribed! Indeed, I need to look into my audio and video quality more. I am experimenting, and hopefully things are improving over time. I'll look into low pass filter, now sure what that means honestly🙈
basically cutting really low and / or high frequencies that don't really affect human voice frequency range :) your audio is pretty good already, so I'm nitpicking 😅
This just makes me buy a dreem headband
what GPS settings You have used? GPS only? GPS+Glonass or GPS+Gallileo? it really matters