For Honor - How to Counter Lightspam - Tutorial
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Lightspam is a much talked about topic. During the initial TG phase, Spaniard already made a similar video. So this is me expanding on it.
It's time to stop complaining and start improving instead. I hope this video here helps.
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Highlander must have some serious biceps to be able to swing that sword that fast AND have frame advantage XD
Maybe because he can follow up with a heavy so it does not input frame disadvantage
@@CaptDuty491 good point
They can easily put them down to other characters by increasing 2nd light recovery IF heavy is not input
literally the only hero left why I still play FH otherwise I would delete the game (after 4 yrs)
I really do want them to slow down the chained light to 600 ms it would have a 500 ms indicator which wouldn’t be an easy parry or just fix the horrible animation.
I used to be awful
Now I’m awful with an excuse
😂😂 you crazy bruh
i used to be awful
now im avarage because i can light spam
@Carlos Domingues im confuse about people that have kensei at rep 30 and after the update do nothing but light spam while kensei has so many combos and softfeints
@Carlos Domingues as a kensei main I found that extremely offensive. He's an highly versatile and doesn't need to rely on skillless light spam.
Carlos Domingues lol my warlord can’t spam easily anymore it was like the reverse for me lol. I just back up and trade now... it works somehow
Step one of countering light spam
Light spam first
Can Orochi even light spam anymore?
Zhanhu players are sweating now
@You’rejustafreaklikeme orochis light are slower than most heroes atm
@@kaftenidiot7718 No, he is as fast as most of the heroes now.
Big brain time
Players: hey, can we get something to counter light spam of heroes with very fast lights like PK, Shaolin or Orochi?
Ubi: oh, so you want us to nerf Orochi? Okay his lights are now slower than Highlander's. You don't need to thank us
Players: Highlander's?
Ubi: yeah his lights are now really fast and deal quite a bit of damage
Players: but that's the opposite of nerfing light spam
Ubi: so you want us to slow down Aramusha's heavies? Okay, got it
@@SIXZRN the fact not every hero has a dodge attack, nuff said,
@@SIXZRN so fuck those three heros? Right? Pretty big disadvantage if you like those three, right? I play a lot of lawbringer, and his dodge aint exactly the greatest, and not having a dodge attack puts people at a sizable disadvantage against someone that does if you wanna dodge out of light chains,.. Someone like tiandi kicks ass in that regard as freeze even said,.. Some people have lots more i frames on dodge attacks, :/
@@SIXZRN Im just sick of getting thrashed by the updates and people pulling unfun gameplay out their ass, yeah, im gonna get hit more, yeah, im gonna struggle to play the game through the updates, but that shit aint fun to play, i wanna play the cool heros, i wanna have the cool executions, and i want, to have, fun, thats it, and if the updates are gonna force me to pick mechanically better heros, or take away peoples enjoyment from the game, is it really a good update?
Hell, my main issue is just crappy latency and the stupid 100 ms delay on everything i do, but when im standing there, waiting for an opponent to do stuff, then get hit with a light and a heavy without animations playing, kinda dont wanna play anymore, lol,
🤣😂😂 facts
M9dno there’s actually a lot of characters who don’t have a dodge attack and it’s no where near 3
4:52 Me slamming my controller & hitting every button at the same time would beg to differ.
This genuinely made me laugh
Thank you .
Ooh it’s jcorella
When your getting spammed and your just hitting buttons as hard as possible 6 times each trying to get one attack off
This guide is useful, don't get me wrong, but I would also go into training and practice light parries for 30 mins.
Didn't know you couldn't dodge a follow up light after interaction with a heavy.
I am smarter now.
Gotta drain them stams with the JJ choke
@@cailleach8416 how else you gonna counter zone option selects?
With a heavy parry and a light? XD
Lets be honest...
@@Masterpartyman I farted
@@robertowolf2463 why?
I used to able to react to everything like you, the I took a ccu to the knee
Underrated comment
@TheGamingMelon you wot mate?
-whiterun player
testimony
Fucking gold. UP!
You’ll be rewarded for this comment one day
5:29 If you need a rematch to get reads then that's an indication that damage values on lights and in general need to be lower in order for read-based combat to be actually possible. You don't get rematches in ranked duels, and you can't stop your opponent(s) from leaving normal games.
I understand for ranked matches wanting a limit for rematches but I don't see why we can't get like 3 matches overall? If you're getting stomped with no chance of winning, decline the rematch. Had a good fight? Take the rematch, just seems odd that there is none when damage values are still so goofed.
80% of the time, when i want to rematch someone because i want to improve, they just leave! So i'm starting to have real doubts about this video
coming from about a year later, ubi still doesnt give a fuck
@@quentinbailleul7196 Yeah they do but that’s because they’re the ones who don’t want to improve. Trust me we’re out there
@@myrylth of course they dont. yet we still give them money
One of my favorite stories pre CCU was when I spent an hour in the training menu learning to deflect orochi lights as gladiator. It worked, I matched with a light spamming orochi in breach and deflected every attack to the point he had to start throwing heavies and using mix ups. It also worked when Zhan hu was released. Now I can only deflect dodge lights.
Thanks to frame disadvantage, instead of one person continually spamming lights, you get to take turns light spamming each other! What great game design!
What's your problem? Cuz I've been enjoying the reworks alot actually, feels more balanced than when I last played even if it seems like some people hit faster. Raider used to be so damn slow there was no point in playing him, now hes my second pick, no I dont grab spam but the fact that a peacekeeper can no longer light spam me to death and gets there light attacks parried.
@@morbus5238 pc or console?
Also peacekeeper wasn’t really a main problem. Now Highlander and other people with ranged lights are really good. Assassins, most at least, have a hard time getting in, because of their unique block they have to constantly switch guards which makes it harder to block, and because of their lack of get in options and range, you are constantly trying to close space, since you don’t have much range, but the moment you are hit by saw a Highlander or nobushi, you are back in neutral and you can’t hit from the range.
This is coming from a person who loved playing shaman but not can’t even find in it anymore.
@@morbus5238 show us a video of you or you re a big fat liar
@@morbus5238 balanced my ass
Well you can just throw the first light and then actually combo with heavies and stuff.
I like how ubi attempted to reduce light spam with the ccu.
Even though it's more popular now than its ever been.
*cough* highlander
Highlander: has a sword that weighs more than 10kg.
Also Highlander: Lightspam.
Edit: guys I am not dumb I know that a claymore doesn't weigh 10 kg I mean it is between a Longsword and War sword/Greatsword.
I know and it's sad that I see keneis light spam more than orochi too
Doesn't even need offensive stance
They shouldn't have ever tried to reduce light spam considering it was never a problem for players who weren't bad to begin with.
Nobody light spams at my level of play
Example of someone having patterns: I was playing against a rep 200 BP and I realized after three rounds that every single time they feinted right, they lighted left and vice versa. I was eventually able to get 4 or 5 parries in the last two rounds because I recognized it. I messaged them afterwards and they admitted that they didn't even know they were doing it consistently like that.
Same with me, i play tiandi and during the first rounds i always destroy the enemy but some enemies adapt and they recognize patterns in my attacks that helps them parry.
dominions taught me (kensei main) to spam dodge heavies as most people in mid-low rep dominions seems to forget how to block. When I go to duels sometimes I can't shake off this habit and I get rekt on the third round onwards, because kensei dodge heavy is very predictable once you get used to it and you can always bait it with a feint. When I remember that I'm not on dominion anymore I use their tactic against them, dodging sideways so bait a reaction (parry/block) but instead of the heavy, I wait one single moment to recover from the dodge and do a top light. As it is not a "especial" attack (just a normal light) I can continue into my favorite combo: top light - side heavy - top heavy unblockable feint into guardbreak and side heavy again, depending on stamina and enemy reaction I can continue and loop again after the side heavy
@Virginbreaker I disagree. I'm in the worst half
I find that Warden mains are the worst. Even a rep 30+ no life warden will unblockable top heavy feing go GB a 3 times per round.
It's a testament to how braindead Wardens kit is that every braindead warden main is running the same braindead bait.
@@phant0mdummy bruh... You got 0-3'd against the warden shortly before posting that comment didn't you?
freeze: Light spam is a not a problem
His video: Light spam is indeed a problem
I would honestly enjoy the read based combat direction that this game is taking if I didn't die so goddamn fast. Like holy shit, it only takes like 3-4 wrong reads and you get deleted.
irl, i did some sword & shield / two handed sword fighting. i was a 155 cm tall 37-40kg guy against a 190 cm tall 100 kg guy with sword & shield. Even i could stand 4 hits against him before falling. it was like 5 or 6 and 2-3 if on the head before i went into full defensive. against regular opponents, i could fight for 3-4 minutes uninterrupted [tho that was two handed wich was a bit more reserved on wrestling]
@@danikalike882 wtf do you think your commenting on
@@bucketheadd all im saying is that: yes the game isnt fucking realistic at all.
@@danikalike882 facts
@@danikalike882 Funny how you know your opponents weight more accurate than yours^^
I used to be able to react to everything, but now I simply can’t any more, since the update.
J.L. Scoot That’s the story from most people now. It’s a fact you have to predict lights before they come now.
I can react because I’ve gotten used to it and I could parry lights before
Because they made it that way... i get mad at highlander and shugo now because shugoki has like fuckin instant gaurdbreaks or some shit now... then the one combo where i think he does two lights then a heavy and the heavy is like unreactable and it still does full heavy dmg
It's a predicting game now. It's only top, left and right... But you also have to predict when they throw their lights.
Wesley Edwards Yeah, so if they delay it or change direction you’re screwed ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Failed parry’s give such big punishes too ༼ つ ಥ_ಥ ༽つ
Long story short: Ubisoft fucked up the game for console players.
they fucked it up for everyone. This game is dead.
does this mean it was already fucked up for PC??
where can I download the version that was actually fun
the one where attacks aren't confirmed *until they fucking land*
-and not bcuz they're made to b confirmed and you have to play 5D chess
They should fix consoles light spam is unblockable sometimes,retards at ubi
@@dallasneedsamedicbag8208 **looks at kensei's 30 seconds of unblockable light spam**
@@umbralgaming3443 im not kidding u unironically need the reaction of a esports player if you have a standard connection and reaction time. Fucking ridiculous
I counter it permanently by not playing 😁😂
I was thinking the same! And i think it's the best way
This one is starting to get it
Yeah pretty much the best decision lmao
You cant get cucked by ubi if you dont play the game.
I uninstalled after the changes to orochi and the deflect changes, the old roach was more fun to use imo, don't get me wrong the heavy unblockable was needed for Orochi for a very long time. Katana in real life are very fast, because of it curved design now it feels like I'm wielding a bat than an actual katana smh the reddit inviduals are litterially 12 year olds.
I used to be able to react to everything, but now I can't any more, since the update!
This makes a good "it could happen to you" ad meme lol
Yeah this sucks so hard the Update was so bad
@@michaelmyers9425 sarcasm I hope lol
@The Anonymous Lemon then quit playing lol
@@coldeed "Lmao you dislike this one patch? Quit the game, developers can do no wrong."
Usually I come here for intriguing tactics and hidden strats that lie in the depth of numbers and frames...
Now I watched a whole video watching Freeze torture his light button
What a world we live in
It’s gonna be really funny when freeze’s condescension towards console players works and console players stop playing. We all know what happens when a majority of the player-base stops playing; no more for honor.
Played on console since beta, followed freeze early on - me and my friends love this game - a loud few screaming "LIGHT SPAM" will never stop us jumping back in to play more :P - This games just fun and pretty unique, always come back ^^.
PaladinBaroque good for you, 3 of my 5 uninstalled
@@Paladinbaroque all my friends uninstalled too
My 3 friends uninstalled = majority! DATA!!!
Attila Szőke lol
Ngl predicting in a fighting game shouldnt be the main aspect
There's the comment I was looking for.
I'd rather just have a cry.
Hate those block spammers.
Parry spammers was a legit thing on consoles.
Karvakulmio I just always feinted into gb/bash cause they were so parry happy. It really wasn’t hard but guess people didn’t wanna learn
@Karvakulmio Heavy -> feint -> gb get surprised you got hit by zone attack xD You can deal with zone attack option select if you predict they do it, but it's not realy as simple as feint gb lol
@Karvakulmio It was a thing, like shugo lightspam.
People are nuts.
Feint spammers are the real deal. I always breathing spam when I see them, because of angery.
so what you're sayin' is that the CCU is a healthy direction for the game to go in (diminished passive-reactive staredown fuckfest) and that all that really remains is for damage value tweaks and maybe another attack property balance pass, and then once we're past this transitory period, for honor is saved
the former ideally reduced across the board so you have more time to learn your opponent's behaviors and make educated reads and the latter to make highlander follow the laws
idk sounds like a pretty alright time to play for honor to me with the usual caveat that the entire playerbase is babies
After the transitory period, For Honor still will be a desbalanced light spam FG, but nobody will play it, and these is the objective.
@@dpastores lmao
dpastores I mean if people like you stop playing them the game will be fantastic tbh
I think if less people play, less support and eventual death will accur so jeah, keep encouraging more people to leave. I dont care anymore.
@@AsianSadge Tis a win-win situation.
I used to be able to react to everything, but now I simply can’t any more, since the update
Thats the whole point of the CCU
@@BattlePro3 u know it a joke right?
Someone else please do the honors
Check 2:38
@Karvakulmio I didn't play this game for 4 months and now I can't do anything. Everything I knew before is outdated for me. People just spam lights or combos without thinking, you HAVE to be aggresive now, if your opponent attacks first, well, pray.
*He's speaking the language of the Gods...*
He is one of the holy crusaders.
reddit moment
Only draza can appoint me as a cwusader!
I bet freeze never thought he'd see the day when he posts a video with a title like this.. with a tone of seriousness 😂😂😂
ye, this wasn't a planned video, but the complaints were too numerous.
Now I can at least say I did something for these people.
freeze People want better offense yet complain when it comes because of “spam”. It’s a fickle community.
@@StoicScape219thats because there are two kind of people who play this game, people who know how to play the game or glue eating troglodytes
@@ericwellmann429 people who use their character to the full extent...and people with a single button it seems
Eric Wellmann congratulations you’re among the top elites! Your prize is being a mouth breathing basement goblin! I’m sorry that most people don’t have the majority of their life to dedicate to a game. Enjoy a social calendar of playing for honor by yourself in a dark room. Lmao
Why try to counter light spam when you can just disconnect? Be that 5head, outplay them irl
Ahh shugoki and highlander, the best light spammers currently. It's kinda impressive how Ubi did that
Read based combat will never work in this game cause of the damage values. Even lights do way too much for read based combat. Not to mention heavys. One wrong read, you eat a heavy and that's 5th of your health gone. Also rematching your opponents, learning their patterns and then expecting to see them again and remembering how they play only applies to duels. Major part of the playerbase don't have thousands of hours in this game like the youtubers that seem to love the idea of read based combat. I honestly feel they balance the game for these highest tier players which is the minority but also the most heard group as many of them are content creators.
Except they are taking steps to make that better, look at the changes planned for the 27th. Yes, taking 1/4th of your health currently for a wrong read is retarded. However, with tg week 2, the numbers they referenced, that number was closer to 1/6th or 1/7th, at the very least a step in the right direction. And at the end of the day, I’d rather lose health because my enemy made a read rather than simply reacted to my offense.
And ubi doesn’t balance around high tier players, see the changes implemented to “counter light spam.”
@@AsianSadge Yeah true, at least they are doing something. I'd be cool with either read based combat or react based combat but the game needs to be balanced around one, right now I think it just doesn't work right for either.
Ubi dont balance for top tier player but for casual player base
@@erbol8116 Cap
I am from 2022 and even I call cap
''I wou- I would lov- people saying "oh reacting come back", I would love to see reacting come back and try to exist in the landscape today, like, the lights that we were throwing would NEEVER land on pre-CCU today, and you have to adapt and overcome the fact that like... you can't even parry bro, like, like.. I don't know.''
-redditbringer mains after being hit by a centurion light chain
On the upside now I have an EXCUSE for my shitty reaction time.... win?
Hey I get this reference.
Ah yes.... The reference...... Hardy har, I sure do love being up to date with all the "cool kids" on their "hip trends" # yolo homie
H3 happier than a mf rn
Look, the problem with the ccu is that lihhts are still reactable on pc and console has highlanders in every match. I assume your on pc, but noones complaining about lightspam on pc (with any legitimacy). The problem is that while you can block your enemies attack, we have to make a read for a tool every hero gets to have, and that gives some characters (highlander, shugoki, black prior) crazy advantages alongside their guesswork lights. I get that read based gameplay is a good thing for the game, but lights don't need that kind of power.
Should have just had a 5 second video of u saying "git gud"
Although this isn't darksouls.
@@linkmaster253 Although it still applies. This guy sees shit clearly since his head is so far up his ass.
i wonder if freeze even gud, or just spiteful whiny bitch who acts tough. I mean every his video is a whine about how terrible is every single person playing this game except few top players, implying himself.
I came back to for honor recently after a long break and it did feel weird at first but i am now getting used to it and your videos really helped with everything. I hope ubi is giving you enougb credit for your work man. Much love
But Freeze how am I supposed to win without making reads if all they do is light spam better than me? This is so unfair to me and only me
There's going to be a lot of people who don't realize this is sarcasm
I experience the same thing bruv but he isn’t lying I’ve gotten quite better because I started reading my opponents
Omg you're so right, actually Orochi is even more powerful now, they should actually remove all his light attacks and leave him with only 800ms unblockable heavies
bro it's so great losing 2 games in a row because they understand how to do different attacks before I finally big brain and understand that I can beat the entire playerbase by uninstalling and having a better experience in pretty much any other game with real practicable skills.
- What I would of said if I didn't forsee this garbage fire back at Black Priors release and uninstalled.
Been laughing ever since
@@shanehunt3019 You are aware that basically all fighting games have unreactable offense?
honestly, im tired of adapting, i know theres a way to win and that i just have to change my strategy but slowly they took away everything fun about the game, i used to be proud and excited if i deflected, parried, or superior blocked a light, now i either feel like im dumb because im not reading correctly, or that my enemy is dumb by repeating the same patterns always, its always either feeling like im getting stomped or like im stomping, or that i won or lost that 2-3 game out of luck in the last round by a random move, i know i can adapt but its just no longer exciting
Fair enough, to each their own man, it's just low key nice to see a comment that is not acting like the devs explicitly needed to balance the game around them, hopefully you will be able to pick the game up again and have fun in the future. Deus Vult.......unless you're not a Knight, then insert hereti- faction relivent quote here ;p
I disagree, if I lost before it's just because I didn't react in time but I COULD have parried, blocked, etc but just missed the timing. If I get parries, especially light parries, it's because I figured out a pattern.
But to each their own, if you don't have fun then that's fair
Glad to hear someone that doesn’t act like the game revolves around them. Personally even as a console player I’m happy these changes are making the game less defense and more offense. Most of these comments try to call Freeze ignorant, yet they cry the game should revolve around them since they can’t adapt. You on the other hand offer a reasonable take
Plus, the new patches, atleast in my experience on Xbox, have had a undeniable positive impact on hero selection variety.
Indicator based offense isn't read based offense freeze. I can make a read what my opponent is going to do versus a warmonger for example as to whether she is going to do a level 1 bitchslap or a lvl 3 bitchslap based off prior information gain from what she has done in the past. Indicator based offense is different because not only is there 3 different options from neutral there are also heavies, soft feints, dodge attack recovery cancels among a myriad of other things the attacker can do.
I am on a 60 hertz tv, which SUPPOSEDLY has a "gaming mode" but from what I can tell has a high pixel response time, in addition, I am using a wired ps4 scuff because that's what I learned the game with since the closed beta. As a result, most lights are VERY difficult for me to even block let alone parry so the complaints about lightspam are VERY real. All the game knowledge in the world won't help me if the character I am playing doesn't have some way to shut down what is otherwise nearly completely unreactable to me.
I personally dislike the CCU for a number of reasons, mainly because it doesn't actually do shit for the people that COULD react to 400 ms delayed lights, I was playing duels the other day to try and avoid the mess that is dominion right now and I encountered 3 separate people who all admitted having a 240 hrtz 1 ms refresh rate monitor, all of these players could physically react to everything I was throwing on a number of different heroes. In fact, the only thing that actually served to open them up was warden's variable timing bash because it's ACTUALLY completely unreactable.
That's really the take away from this indicator based offense isn't healthy for the game, it isn't fun and melee/unblockable based read requiring offense is the healthier and more effective forms of offense in for honor.
The fact that videos like this one exist 4 years after release says a lot about this game lmao.
Defend it however you like but that doesn't change the fact that they destroyed defense in this game and duels are a lot more flowcharty and uninteresting now.
It's really funny to me how every player I meet ingame despises the CCU but reddit is absolutelly fine with it.
Seems to me that the people that actually play this game don't like the devs doing a 180 on their game uh?
Btw, "lmao just adapt" is the telltale sign a game is dying, or to be more accurate, a telltale sign both the devs and the playerbase are killing it.
For Honor has always been a defensive turtle based game.
Now it's just light spam simulator.
Unless your reactions are on point, then it's get a mixup from the same turtle positon:
Into light spam simulator because why use mixups when you can get free damage from lights? Unless they get a 1 in 3 guess it's a guarantee.
@@Saskaruto16 1/3 guess that favors them damage-wise, mind you, especially with retarded light/heavy damage ratio
@@ivan24121996 Even then, you still have more options than just going for the light. The 1/3 is just for a light to continue your string. You still have all the other options too.
Not a fan of these changes at all.
@@Saskaruto16 while that's true, being able to press buttons is ALWAYS better than not being able to press buttons. Yes, further changes have to be made, but the game is playable now if you want to actually do something other than staring :/
@@ivan24121996 We had options other than turtling already. You had some unreactable options and many timing mixups already.
I was totally for giving everyone 1 deliberately unreactable light attack, making the other 2 light attacks have the superior property to you could continue strings on block.
But making all lights this good is a bit too much, especially without counterplay being rewarded enough.
I think we definitely need to see dodge attack become gaurd breakable now. You should not be able to just dodge attack at any animation flicker with impunity or near impunity.
All zones should also be undodable. You want a way to stop dodge bash spam, create more consistent counterplay to it.
I'm not for just making light spam the go to option. I'm for adding more counterplay and whiff punishment, and more bait and punish options.
Thank you freeze, your videos really help me get into the deeper mechanics of For Honor.
Personally as a console player I’ve learned to look at the hero animations more than indicators. It’s helped my warmonger deliver 38 damage more often than relying on red flashes
the only thing i complain is warmonger feats on dominion, like WTF devs were thinking about
“How to counter light spam” while having a thumbnail of Nobu... wow lol
Lol nobu suck at light spam
the majority of fast hits of nobu arent a straight up light attack
I know this games been out a while but i just started and these guides help so damn much. Compared to other yt channels this guy probably has the most detailed videos
I find this video funny just by the fact that I can still react to chain lights and neutral lights. I can still reaction block them, not parry, which does still take a read. If I think they will throw a light attack, I watch for the indicator and parry as soon as I see red. Gotten a lot of kills just by people light spamming, I hope they keep doing it!
Some actual counters to light spam on chain start ups:
-characters with a fast, hyper armored or super block zone have a strong option to zone attack in neutral against aggressive players. This will parry an incoming light attack or at least trade/give free damage against a neutral heavy.
This also is good with superior heavies. Throw out a heavy in the direction of an attack coming from neutral. Again, if it is a light you will get a light parry punish or if it’s a normal heavy you will get block and free damage.
When IN chain, lock on to another target and external block to the side of the light spammer. This will help you block much more effectively. If this is not an option, your best bet is to block as much as you can
Thank you so much for this video, especially the section on what’s Frame advantage/disadvantage. I thought every light/heavy was disadvantage/advantage respectively. Plus, now I know the outliers (like warlord head butted and PK deep gouge). Thank you so much.
Just wanna say thank you for this tutorial your advice about focusing on how to read your opponent helped tons I lose the first two rounds but I only make them look worse each round after that!
This update gave nobu her first opener since release (without unlock tech). Even the best players I play against on PC cannot consistently nail a viper's retreat defense (after the nobu dodges and her attack direction completely relies on the Indicator, because the animation and the guard say nothing).
So even though light spam was absolutely not a thing pre-CCU, it absolutely is now. It's counterable, but it can work very well.
dry lights are not an opener
My concern is in team fights and 1v2 or 3 or 4. The damage reduction for being hit at the same time is so out of wack and revenge gain is pitiful even in 1v4. Its just very difficult to react to the first hit now and then you get hit by the next 4 since you’re stun locked.
My guess is that alot of people leave after a win because they're afraid of their opponent counter picking and adapting🤷♂️
I tend to rematch so I don’t look like a dick lol
I love when I rematch, guess their counter pick and pick a counter to it. It's always just a bp mirror.
Lol that's a run on joke with my friend when we plays brawls and win a match. They want a rematch and we say no no no we don't do that here and search for new players.
@@millerrepin4452 What do you do if you lose?
Finally! Some actually useful information. Thanks a lot for your work man.
3:05 ngl I’ve been in that orochis position before, there’s something about defending against glad lights with reflex guard that just shuts my brain off
Since Glad already spammed him a second before and Orochi got a light parry, I just think that he tried to parry every single one of those Glad top lights that hit him in the forehead right after. So basically he shut his own guard off by mistiming x')
Also he could've dodged any of those I think? Since the CCU?
I feel like, being a console player, I could deal with light spam and even parry. And now, it feels worse. I have a panic attack when I see a nobushi.
Yeah, Nobushi's lights are very weird now. Idk if they changed their timing or what at this point. Her attacks are very hard to react to in any way, shape or form.
nobushi? i panic on Pc when i see a fking raider for gods sake
Well, this is certainly a good way to look at all this. It’s the best way to tackle the subject, it’s totally true there’s no separate balances coming so I agree 110% with ya, let’s just find ways to counter the play style just as we always have
Thanks a bunch, really helped, i haven't played since the update so this was useful information.
I donno man, this response really just feels like a “it’s fine on our end so get over it”...
It's more of a "not being able to react is a good direction for the game, so get used to it". What players considered "skill" in old FH was just winning the genetic lottery in terms of reaction times.
In my opinion, it made the game worse on PC (at higher levels) and better on console (at all levels), i've seen some people being able to react to 400ms light attacks on PC, which just makes the skill gap between people with good reactions and people with good game mentality even higher.
Basically, you want to be a comp player on pc? You need good (now really good) reactions to play AND good game mentality against variable timed bashes.
You want to be a comp player on console? You just need good mentality.
Of course, both platforms are playable, but on PC we still have a closed skill ceiling, whereas on Console everyone is free to attack and defend exclusively on read, ultimately what the game is supposed to be, in my honest opinion.
Naito desu ok, so it when from genetic lottery to who can Land the first light and keep the spam up... not saying reaction based gameplay was health for the game but I’d easily chose it over this. People go out of their way to avoid patterns and throw in the random heavy attack. Instead of a genetic lottery it’s now an guessing lottery factoring in fucked up internet connections...
@@heathlouis4529 Genetics defenitely play a good part in reaction time.
www.hptinstitute.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Factors-Affecting-Reaction-Time1.pdf
"In almost every age group, males have faster reaction times than females, and female
disadvantage is not reduced by practice (Noble et al., 1964; Welford, 1980; Adam et al.,
1999; Dane and Erzurumlugoglu, 2003; Der and Deary, 2006). The last study is
remarkable because it included over 7400 subjects. Bellis (1933) reported that mean
time to press a key in response to a light was 220 msec for males and 260 msec for
females"
@@heathlouis4529 Yes, health affects it too but genetics also affects it just as much, so no matter how much you try, some dude on Adderall with better genes will do better than you. Don't pretend like genetics doesn't factor in.
Also its a lie when someone said that they used to react to everything and now they cant react to shit ( i am talking about console) Any chain light below 500 ms if delayed was unreactable before CCU on console. The new mate in console is boring and disgusting: Pick a hero with good light combos( Kensei is pretty good with his crappy animations and good range) spam your light combo before your opponent, when you finish walk backwards and dodge back. Oh and an even better idea: pich Highlander you can spam with him all day as long as you have stamina. For me this patch killed the soul of For Honor, now its a hack and slash game.( On console, for you PC players now you can enjoy of what we had on console)
Yes all 10 players that still play on pc can now enjoy the way the game is actually supposed to be
Thx, now everyone spamming me with ligths. I played almost 1400 hours, but man, I'm not a pro or very good at this game and very bad at reading opponents. But now enemies of stupid lizard with bad reading can use his one weakness - light spam, that works every, freaking, time.
Scream of soul.
I used to be able reagálni to everything, but since ccu update óta i cannot.
Az megint más hogy ész nélkül állsz az ember előtt és várod a csodát.
I have to desagree with you. When i was concentrated i was able to react to every hero chain in the game. It was hard, but not impossible.
Eliot Mashwitz rather it be hard than superhuman lol
Thanks for waking me up! I used to be a parry god on console, but now everything is based on reaction. I had the habit to react and this helped me to stop trying to react. Again, Thanks!
I was hoping to learn something new out of this but i think imma stick with my method. Which is practicing in reacting better and (as you said already) read the enemies attack pattern to better predict where the next light will be coming from. So far i've been improving
Assassins get really destroyed, when big guys tanks are now the new light spammer. The tanks have it all :defense and offense. RIP Assassins
*cries in lawbringer*
@@bakerhalt lawbringer is made for chads, no need to lightspam or dodge attack. As a LB main im happy to know almost every win wasnt because of an abusive spam or broken mechanics
@@maskr5520 i have 29 hours in the game and every second was spent with the lawbringer, i like his style and i realized how cancer 90% of the other champs are. I hated him at the start but now i see it takes skill to play
@@maskr5520 lawbringer is one of those that you have to be good at or you get destroyed. Played against one last night and jfc the amount of stunning going on was ridiculous
Honestly this video helps me a lot. I realised after playing duel (I often play 4v4) that i often get punished because i use the same move over and over again. I know this sounds dumb, yes I am a new player. I think because of the CCU, I have to make the enemy react, instead of letting the enemy do something and I react accordingly (parrying, deflecting, dodging). The frame disadvantage thing kinda works, but i feel like warmonger's heavy attack doesnt have it? (maybe im just bad). But good videos Freeze, i was about to quit the game entirely, but one thing that you point out in the video is 'Adapt' and it makes me want to play this game more
luv ur videos!
(SORRY FOR THE BROKEN ENGLISH) :(
Freeze, great video as usual. Main problem is as you have said players forgot how to read opponents cause I think they stop playing duels. I also think duels are the only ground you start reading...
Even though I stopped playing, I do acknowledge that reading a player and oneself is a must. For instance, I noticed that I always tend to dodge to the left and my second light in a chain will, most of the time, come from the right. It wasn't until I actually paid attention to that that I actually had a better time playing
It’s not about reacting for me, cause normally in a game especially fighting games whenever there’s something I can’t do, (deflecting) I go into practice and practice it until my fingers hurt. After the update I can’t do it, I’m extremely slowly getting better but it feels like a lot of time wasted for something that isn’t even rewarding.
I practiced in training grounds against warmonger and tiandi lights and I can react to them now and parry them quite a bit
No, don't tell people to practice, then they have to actually put time into learning things and that is an impossible concept to grasp.
Training grounds isnt even a good viable tool to practice lmao
@@tiandiguy3374 Yepp, and the best practice you can get on this game, is going to reddit and complaining endlessly until your shortcomings are solved by the devs. It is somewhat a longish procedure, but no real effort is needed.
@@tiandiguy3374 well it helped me I can parry lights in the actual games now
But your not actually reacting to lights
a good strat against spammers is to feel the tempo they're spamming at and trying to throw out lights at a different tempo, such that you always hit before they throw an attack. of course accounting for frame disadvantages.
it's worked for me on the ranked ladder against particularly spammy opponents.
This video was actually very helpful thank you mate
Summary of this video: Stop trying to react! Just smash light button and win.
You should work on your comprehension skills. Try reading a book, before reading people in game.
@@attilaszoke4780 cry me a river fanboy
@@valenesco45 Sure, if you promise you will drink plenty after I piss in it.
@@attilaszoke4780 Anything you want sweetheart. Now get yo ass outta here.
@@valenesco45 Oh, but that is not my ass. You mistook it for your face.
This game has always been reaction based, i have literally no clue why they changed that. Having it be reaction based instead of a reading competition is what made the game different and fun.
A reaction based game is unhealthy and boring. We need to have moves to force people to make decisions. Pretty much everyone who bought the game when it first came out will tell you the same.
@@shadowofthehitokiri5787 ah yes because making uninteresting and non skillful moves the main damage dealer instead of using better knowledge and mix ups to get most of your damage is so much better..you're stupid ngl lol
@@stealthbrawler
"Uninteresting and unskillful"
Lol.
"Better knowledge and mix-ups"
You do realise that actual mix-ups are unreactable, right? Feinting two heavies into a light isn't a mix-up, lol.
Reaction based For Honor is so god-awful. I’ve been playing for years and the change is so very welcome. I myself don’t have great reaction time, so I always got destroyed by cracked 14 year old kids. Now, it’s funny to watch those who were previously able to beat me easily, fail miserably. Just reacting to moves is extremely boring, while actually making reads and learning your opponent requires skill and focus..and is actually enjoyable.
Good video mate thanks I’ve noticed on console the ps4 specifically that there is a lot more option selecting now so I’ve been using that to my advantage.
I actually started using these... and wow... my win rate sky rocketed. Thank you Freeze
I main Zhanhu by the way.
I mean, I never could react to some of the faster attacks in the game. I love how I'm now on the same page with everyone after the CCU.
@Karvakulmio I'm not a hardcore player and reads were always enough for me to win fights despite sub-par reaction time. And with the improvement to offence we can finally attack each other with something but bashes, how is it suffering?
@Karvakulmio I see you like staring contests
Someone Noone because they kinda got rid of the skill gap and all the players that actually took the time out to get better are forced to play with people who are just mashing the attack buttons because they can
@@jevontewashington7409 I do not entirely disagree with you, Ubi certainly updated the game in a massive way but I think that the skill curve didn't get flattened in its entirety. It's just that it changed to making reads all the time instead of improving reactions.
Thought they absolutely messed up the damage numbers, so we do not quite have enough time to make reads in a span of a single duel round, which really sucks. Can't wait for the next patch.
Someone Noone yea it’s not completely flattened but i don’t understand what they were tryna do with this new read based fighting system or whatever because a lot of the times we are just guessing where someone is going to attack which is dumb
not playing for honor until warmonger feats are nerfed or single pick is implemented. i’m not gonna play corona simulator and force myself to have fun
Same
Surprisingly, even tho I had a hard time in the beginning...
I have more fun in this update than I have in a LONG time. (Except WM's feats)
Thank you. This video was very helpful.
Noticing a sadly large amount of kensei mains lightspamming now, as a kensei main before the CCU it makes me really sad to see how some others play him, almost never hear koredeshimaede anymore
I ran into a rep 70 Kensei in Breach the other day who did nothing but light and dodge attack. Even when I started countering him, he wouldn't stop. It was like fighting a low level Orochi.
Ccu killed console
Been a few months since I’ve played for honor and I came back trying to parry lights and realized something felt wrong , I always thought I was just severely out of touch and was bad but it’s good to know everyone else is bad lmao .
Quick thing to note, due to input leg plus internet leg there are times when you can't dodge out of light attack spam, and it becomes even harder to even block a lot of attacks, I'll go into training and I'll be able to parry most light attacks, but due to internet issues a lot of the time the second chain in light spam isn't even visible to me and I just get hit instantly, I'm sure I'm not the only one who has this issue and it's likely why so many struggle with light spam. The game is entirely different on console
you just described a problem, but you identify the wrong cause of it.
@@fkkfreeze but I don't think it's entirely due to fps, like many would believe. because there have been times depending the tv being used and which internet provider I'm using (for example i had different internet in college) where these problems were not as prevalent as they are right now with my current set up. Part of the issue with consoles isn't just fps but also how they take LAN and Wi-Fi compared to a pc. To put it frank they're some what shit at using the full potential of internet that you have.
You dont need to "read" light attacks, most of the time, if you have decent reaction speed, you can easily block the spam
IT'S ALL GOING DOWNHILL LADS
This video changed my whole mind set of the games, I came in mad asf by the fact I had to actually google to how to deal with something like this and ima leave a lil less mad
That honestly makes me happy ;)
Good luck man, you'll be able to deal with lightspam soon enough!
I didn't know about light chains leaving you at a frame disadvantage even on hit, thanks
only if you stop the chain.
you're still + if you continue
You cant react to light attacks because you play on console? Yes, on top of that if you play on a TV screen usually tv screens have more significant input delays than monitors, I play on 240hz monitor with 240fps, everything is easily reactable, on human benchmark reaction time test I can score 140-160ms easily, with coffeeit is 140ms consistently but when I tried it on a TV it was almost impossible to react and parry, on a TV screen my reaction time significantly increased to 250-300ms it is crazy how much difference a good high refresh monitor makes, if you want to dominate just get a 240hz monitor a good pc and reck everyone its ez.
Amazing advice, just get a pc lol
I hate that, the idea behind consoles is exactly to be a casual thing you play on a fuggin TV sitting in your couch. So whenever a game have this skill gap bc of screens and shit, my cancer just grows. If I want to play competitive sitting in front of a monitor, I'll just get a fuggin PC. The same aplies with mk.
Yea lemmie just *do* that
I barely can't even block on reaction with the new lights and you guys speak about having struggle parrying ? I'm definitively not in the same world as yours. It's ridiculous to be able to get so easy damages just by smashing 1 button.
Imagine Kratos saying: **BE BETTER**
@@attilaszoke4780 fuck off
9/10 I’ll leave after a match due to teammates rather than opponents. Solid Video Freeze. I’d really like to see a CZcamsr like yourself get your hands on an console just for a video with you having practical experience.
Before the hidden 100 ms indicator on all attacks I could parry ANY attack if I predicted it and most on reaction ... now, I may play 3 full matches without a parry.. great video with really helpful tips but idk if I’ll be able to keep playing this game (shame cause it really was my favorite game ever!)
I used to be able to react againts everything, until I took an arrow to the knee..
I was waiting for someone to make the joke 😂
😉
I was able to parry so much better back then. Thanks to the CCU it’s a lot more difficult now
Thats the whole point
Did you not watch the video? You're not suppose to.
SkyHawk091 I kinda am just not all the time. It sucks relying on this new strategy now
I like this helpful and very professional.
Hey, Freeze! Thank you for this video!
At this point I’m mainly complaining about dmg numbers and the fact that most players on console seem to have worse latency now.
I've also noticed this increase of "Wifi Warriors". Playing against someone who has 80+ constant ping is utterly a pain in the ass because it makes all their attacks literally unreactable.
Oh the wifi warriors are people from other countries because a load of US and Europe people quit. Now you get to play with us cause the update was so trash it opened a gap for a bunch of people from other countries to fill up the que
My problem is that it seems attacks are going through my block
Thats either latency if it really is and if its not then that means you are second guessing and subconsciously moving your guard without realising so it seems like they are going through
It could be a wrongly timed parry attempt as well that's what always happens to me anyway.
I get these with parries a lot lately. I get a read on the person, put my guard over and wait for the flash, my hero puts the weapon/shield up in the right position to begin the animation, the camera zooms in... and then it cuts back to normal and I'm hit.
I figure Mercy is correct that it's probably just latency but this used to happen every few days of play, now it's at least every couple hours. Something is still amiss, really hope they focus on optimization once feats and damage numbers are dialed in.
@@drownsinkoolaid4203 i mean if you are on wifi instead of wired connection that could be the cause of latency issues either on your end or your opponents. With the ccu update recently they also changed a bunch of timings so that could also be why
They are. I play nobu since the update, and I've seen players go to block the side I'm attacking, and my attack goes through. A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
Okay, guess I'll hit them three more times with bleed.
Even seen it happen to bots, and they know where I am attacking. Worked on a level 3 arcade boss bot last night.
When that happens it can also cause players to freak out and miss the parry for the next heavy, which of course goes into light with frame advantage.
Thank you so much, this was so helpful.
thanks man this is very helpful.
Don’t play on console. That’s how you counter light spam.
I hate when I don't sometimes block a light and it does 12 damage to me
if i could
a light would never touch me!!!
id be so epic and good
like if u agree!!!!!!
Thanks a lot for this vid, now I can at least have a little chance in multiplayer
Nice work freeze! Im Not really complaining about light spam since season 9 or so but there were really nice informations i didnt know yet.
Maybe you could do a tutorial about countering "bash spam" or viable Times bashes, too?
Lol, light staggers, that's the problem. And excuse me but several characters have infinite light chains, good luck waiting for the end of it.
just remember the tried and true method of dark souls players
git gud
One does not simply git gud at git gudding.