when two directors adapt the same book
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- čas přidán 14. 04. 2024
- #dune #denisvilleneuve #davidlynch
With the release Denis Villeneuve's Dune: Part Two, the franchise has become more popular than ever. But did you know there was a previous Dune movie? And did you know it was directed by David Lynch. Today, we're going compare Villeneuve's Dune and David Lynch's Dune, looking at the differences in aesthetic, pacing, tone and visuals.
Thanks to my friend Jess for helping with Dune lore. - Krátké a kreslené filmy
What other directors could make an interesting Dune adaptation?
picture this - Greta Gerwig's Dune
Peter Jackson (in his prime)
david fincher, darren arronofsky, the wachowkis, guillermo del toro, alex garland. Or give david lynch or jodorowsky another chance. Also in the anime field i could see Satoshi Kon or hideaki anno. If we did get another dune adaptation I think it should be something unique, either animation or a significantly more psychedelic live action project. After messiah we could maybe get a chance of seeing another directors vision, whether as more movies or maybe a series.
Dune is a story set in the politics of the elite-- could definitely see a Gurney Halleck Broadway show exploring the limits of being a poet soldier (with the balliset!)
@@dreat1527Fuck No
This feels more like “when studios get in the way” than it is a comparison between two different directors styles
Time also plays a part here. Lynch's version came out over 30 years earlier and he didn't have the technology Denis has.
@@theviniso
1984 was 40 years ago, not 30.
@@ivoryowl I did say over 30.
@@ivoryowl You got pwn'd.
For the Lynch version, it wasn't the studio's fault, it was more like the producer/distributor, who controlled the budget & logistics. The production house (Universal) was the one who cut the movie down to its final decided 2.25 hours, rather than staying with the 3-4 hours it was planned for. Actually Dune 1984 was initially planned to be 2 or 3 separate movies during the preplanning stages in the late 1970's after Jodorowsky's project/version got canned. Villeneuve's 2021 version REDEEMS the movie splitting idea that the 1984 version did not get to have due to production meddling, because again, the production house controlled a lot of things. As someone said earlier, progressing movie technology played a big role. In 1984, mature realistic 3D CGI wasn't a thing yet, so they had to use a lot of human resource to create stage backdrops. This includes carpenters, masons, electricians, ironworks, stuff like that, not to mention the supplies (lumber, steel etc) required. Plus the aforementioned time put in to build all that. Had they used CGI, the production budget could have been relatively smaller & thus budget would have been less of a concern for the producer. That is why modern movies use CGI more than traditional construction, to overcome expense in both time & supply. This includes scale modeling, like using digital spaceships in CAD instead of plastic models. There was also a slight delay because Ridley Scott had to bow out as initial director, so that is why they brought in Lynch as a next/secondary choice. Gurney's main actor also had to be fired (alcoholism), so they brought in Patrick Stewart as a last-minute replacement, thanks to Lynch who spotted Patrick at a theater play he was doing, iirc. You could say that David helped jump-start Patrick's career even moreso in Hollywood, since we now know Patrick as Picard & Professor X... and of course also the 1st live-action Gurney. It was a serendipitous fluke or destiny for Stewart, perhaps.
04/21/24
Man, I really don't like seeing Lynch talk about his Dune. It is still hurting him, an unhealed scar, you can feel the sadness on his voice. It must be very painful when you try so hard to bring your vision to the world but then everything goes wrong.
Every artist's worst nightmare.
Lynch was betrayed.
@@Tommy1977777
Care to explain?
@Lyonessi lynch explains it better but basically he was signed on with one set of promises but as production continued the tools he was promised were slowly taken away (funding/script cuts,crunch time reductions, etc).
honestly I liked the lynch dune a lot, as it was nostalgic for me, but after hearing him so mad about it. I feel strange.
Mad respect for Lynch for being so open and honest about it, and transparent about why things turned out the way they did
Lynch is a guy who admits his wrongdoings and lives with them. Other directors either sell out or just pretend their mistakes are intentional or not theirs and never blame themselves. Lynch did blame the studio and others but most importantly blamed himself for selling out.
I love his movie. There wouldn’t be another sci fi this much fun and over the top until the 5th element. He invented space kitsch, no mean feat. He may have been trying to make a serious movie, but he made something better. Rather than a carbon copy of the book on the screen. Madness always said they were just trying to make serious songs. Instead they created something inimitable. Is that a bad thing really? Well done to Lynch for his honesty. Can’t help but respect that integrity. Bit not everything you can create can be perfect. Especially given circumstances outside your control. He’s also too hard on himself. Partly to head off critics I suspect. His prerogative, but he’s equally entitled to be proud of what he achieved with it. How many people did he persuade to read the books as a direct result of his movie I wonder?
In Dune 2 the worm riding scene shook the entire theater, it was a once in a lifetime experience I will remember. It was like riding a sandworm in the theaters, I loved it.
That was an incredible scene. I don't remember the last time (if there ever was one) a film made me feel the way that scene did.
It reminded me a lot of trying to catch a big wave while surfing (im not a very good surfer). Seeing this unstoppable mountain of water rushing towards you and a part of you wanting to slip into panic while another part knows that if you hesitate you'll just get crushed by the wave. So you paddle with all your might and when you feel the wave take you and you know you're riding it, that feeling of dread turns into pure joy and relief.
Such an awesome movie
man is dune 2 still in cinemas? that sounds great!
@@slyisdanameyesss, i just watched it last night!! theater was about half full, i think most people were going in for a rewatch and so the vibe was really chill. lots of laughs during the funny bits and cheers during the serious and exciting bits
we saw it regular already but going again this weekend to see it in imax, i can not wait! this omment makes me even more antsy to see it
Yea, it's was the most amazing experience I have ever had in cinema. I'm so happy having seen both parts on an IMAX screen. I realised after, that the mix of so many talented people, technology, source material of this quality and enough money to pull it off won't happen again in many years.
It's not a remake! It's the newest adaptation of the best selling sci-fi book of all time.
U just described a remake
@@Dookieman1975
No, remake would imply that the new movie is based on the old movie, which is not true. They are just based on the same source material. It would be like saying Peter Jackson's LOTR is a remake of the animated movie from the 70s.
@@Dookieman1975there's a difference between a movie that gets a remake and a book that receives a second film adaptation because the first didn't do it justice. Please for the love of god learn some words for the sanity of everyone on the Internet.
And you’d put that in the title or Remake ? Lmao
@@morgumalagain, u just described a remake
Old Paul: “PAIN…”
New Paul: 😬😫😖😠😡 (🎵aaahaa🎵)
Okay now please summarize other iconic scenes using emojiis. Thank you.
Funny since Timothee screamed in pain originally, the footage is in the first dune 2021 trailer but it was cut it.
@@heavenly_haori1725 scream in pain vs scream the word PAIN to show the pain is two different thing
@@SubkhanSarif You can't have your characters state how they feel! That makes me feel angry!
(Edit: This is a Futurama reference, you clowns. I'm not defending the pain scream.)
@@Not_a_Lizard_if you character needs to shout "pain" to convoy pain then it's a bad directing
Man, I really wish I could see David Lynch’s fully realized version. The man is a genius and gives the best interviews of any director.
Watch the Spicediver fan edit, it's a least a lot closer to that than the official version is.
spicedriver dune is free on youtube ;)
I cant help but still really like Lynch's Dune, even if he himself hates it. It has so many iconic, meme-able and quotable moments
I like it more. Timothee ruins new Dune for me. I feel like it's easily his worst role/acting. I think he does a fantastic job in all other roles I've seen him in but idk man he just doesn't fit here.
Lynch only hates it because he was removed from the editing process & then screwed with by MCA/Universal. He was excited to use the assembly footage to make a director’s cut but they wouldn’t wait for him to finish Wild At Heart.
@@blad...The character he is portraying is meant to evolve as the saga goes on, he is not really complete as a character yet
@blad... Idk what you guys are talking about. He absolutely killed the role of Paul. This coming from someone who thinks Timothy is in far too many films atm, but this one was earned.
@@Neil-qg9cw If he killed the role of Paul then Paul is a poor character. Timothee just gives this aura of bland. Like a mindless ape always gaping at nothing for a large portion. He's just not enjoyable to watch in this film.
If we are comparing Dune to Star Wars. Paul is Anakin, not Luke.
Yes, sadly
@@silasschwehnsadly? I’m tired of good guy vs bad guy movies I like the grim reality of dune and warhammer. The “good” characters are characters that would be seen in movies like Star Wars while the evil characters are undoubtedly evil
Only difference is that his kid is more like if Luke said, "In order to fix my father's mistakes, I gotta become an even worse monster."
@@Kingedwardiii2003 ambiguous morality from Jesus' space Hitler
Incorrect. Paul was afraid not just of the Jihad, but of starting down the Golden Path.
The galactic cleansing of the Jihad was only step one. Step two was to endure a radical mutation into a human-sandworm hybrid and subjugate humanity for 3500 years as a tyrant (the God Emperor). He would rule until finally orchestrating his own death to break humans of their addiction to spice and have them scatter throughout the universe. No longer content to ever be controlled by one substance or one man.
Paul's son, Leto II was strong enough.
Paul is ultimately killed by his own sister, Alia of the knife who succumbed to possession from The memories of Baron Harkonnen. She became an abomination. That's why the Bene Gesserit fear the preborn: those who unlock their ancestral memories in the womb.
Generations of memories viying to seize control of you. Alia redeems herself by slitting her own throat.
Jessica has to bury both her children, then watch her grandchildren implement the Golden Path.
Leto II and Ghanima succeed where Paul, Chani, Leto, and Jessica fail.
I think what sets Timothee’s portrayal above Kyle’s is AFTER he takes the Water of Life. He becomes an entirely different person, while in ‘84 he doesn’t seem to change.
Very true. Paul goes from being a boy to a man with Timothee’s portrayal
@@AveChristusRex789disagree. Nothing he can do will make him seem like a man.
@@AveChristusRex789 It's not boy to man, but human to inhuman
in the book the change is subtle also, he becomes more of what he is not a different person
They way changes after taking the water of life really changes the context of the story.
The pain in that man’s face when he tells the fremen to “lead them to paradise “
"get out of myyy miiinnnndddd" got me lol
You can really feel the pain in Lynches voice. Shame we never got to see his vision
We might. VERY recently, Lynch said he’s open to seeing the footage he shot to see if it’s salvageable.
Hey Feyd-Rautha, I sent my girlfriend to work for you a few weeks ago, and I haven't heard back. Any idea what's going on?
@@chadicuschaximus1071 the fuck
@@MCCrleone354 That's the best news I've ever heard! Fingers crossed something will come of it! 🤞
@@chadicuschaximus1071 you know my darlings get hungry when we go on long trips. We've been going on a lot of long trips lately.
I liked how you included those interviews with lynch. It seems like it really bothered him how they handled his movie. Great video
Anyone would be bothered with how someone other than you butchers your work. I doubt Lynch’s movie would be a timeless classic but it wouldnt be a bad movie if they gave him a chance. I mean, it is somewhat iconic (thanks to its surreal depictions) despite being in a hell of a state.
Yeah, but the weirdo over the top scenes in the movie are pure Lynch. There’s pacing problems for sure, but the bigger problems is the campiness.
Lynch blaming it all on the editing is weak. He was being callous, he thought he didn't need screenwriters and attempted to use the book as the screenplay.
@@kevinc8955 As I said - it wouldnt be a timeless classic but it could be a decent movie.
Problem with surreal ideas (be it in movies, games, books, art) is that they need to be implemented in full to be "watchable" and offer any value. Otherwise, it is just a quirky attempt of doing gods-know what.
@@Trazynn portraying it as him blaming it all on editing is reductive and doesn’t recognise him as an artist. It’s much more that others doing the editing takes his voice away. If he edited the film and it was terrible it would still be upsetting but as an artist he could still recognise it as his vision.
It’s like creating a presentation then at the end your boss says a random coworker gets to cut random sections while you are to be judged as the sole creator. Your own work might have been just as bad but it was still your work and your mistakes.
The reason there’s a lot of internal dialogue in the first iteration is because that’s how the book is literally written. You’ll be reading two character talking to each other and then suddenly you’re just reading what they’re thinking for multiple pages with them explaining everything in detail to give exposition. The world and story of Dune is cool but reading it wasn’t enjoyable (for me at least)
Yes, but the point is that works in a book, but not in a 'show, don't tell' format like film. It can work with restraint but in 1984 it's a crutch to dump exposition due to time constraints.
@@Neil-qg9cw Agreed. Just wanted to explain the reason why Lynch’s movie is told that way
that's a dumb reason. the point of it being a movie is it being told in an entirely different medium
I don’t think the person who made this video actually read the book, he just made the video probably to help promote the movie. This is why he shits on the old movie so much.
Yes it's not the only book to do that. I recently read Honor Harrington and the novel will drop 3 pages of internal backstory in the middle of a conversation. Absolutely terrible way to convey story.
When it comes to novels, it's often better when the internal voice is hidden from the reader so that they can always wonder about a character's true feelings or intentions.
I think that the new dune could not have existed without the old one. It's like it was studied and improved upon, and therefore both movies feel really cool to me and I respect both directors, actors and all the people who stood behind the making of them.
I don't think the guild navigators actually fold spacetime themselves, they just use the spice to foresee a path so the ships can do it without crashing.
I agree, if I remember right it's the mentat ability to foresee myriad paths and conclusions, so the spice enables them to choose safer routes
@@jonstfrancis yeah you're absolutely correct, they don't actually fold space themselves. I just looked up what does fold space, The heighliners use the "Holtzman" effect to instantly travel. it's said to be similar technology to the shields they use, so maybe they somehow invert their shields? it's never explained in great detail
@@Mostexcellant69Dude that's really interesting, I guess somehow that enables the highliners to smooth their way? So there is absolutely no resistance? Or does it do more than that to speed their way?
They see future and find the way they won't die, just like muaddib see his way to the jihad, and then golden way.
Yes, the holtzman generators are what folds space. The navigators used their prescience to guide the folding. Before the navigators, a high percentage of ships were lost whenever they folded space.
"I have smoked your Bong'Jabbar, now you will smoke from mine."
~ ~ # # [F] OUTTA HERE OLD-HEAAADDD!!!!1!!!!! # # ~ ~
Two great Gangs: The Atreedes, and the Harkrackheads
Keefshats Hasherack
"I see grass within your pants."
@@tamnam5722 The Muad'Doob.
You can honor the source material and still have two completely different films. Bravo on the analysis.
thank you for showing lynch's interviews instead of just blaming him for all the movie's faults. too many people are quick to blame a single person in the process (a director, an actor) for everything they hate in a bad production, when it's rarely their fault.
The sound of the The Voice on CZcams doesn't do it justice. In the Theater that scene (and also when it is used in Dune 2) sounds more sinister, chilling, and reverberates right into your bones. Masterclass sound editing and design.
Real, when he said that, everyone in my theater literally screamed, as if it were an action scene
its not youtube its you speakers
@@coin777 It's both. CZcams has audio compression that ruins some of the design. The compression is a lot better than it used to be, but it's still always going to be inferior to the source.
@@coin777
You’d be surprised how much CZcams screws your own audio. It’s the reason why editing became a chore nowadays, not only you have to script and edit a video, you have to take in audio so CZcams doesn’t accidentally screw your audio.
@@progmrz5512 no it does not. It's sounds good
The greatest crime of cinematography is how they treated Lynch's vision. It could be a good movie but it wasn't allowed to be by the tops, forcing a lot of bizarre decisions to be made.
The one thing that I liked about it were the costumes and the imperial court baroque style. It really felt grand and alien in a lot of ways.
Sadly there are a lot of stories of studios destroying good movies back in the day. For me the greatest crime is Once Upon A Time In America from Sergio Leone. Scorsese helped restore some of it, but 2 hours of the movie are missing.
Lynch stans are the biggest COPE merchants ever 😂
He made a STINKER, the execs mightve made that stinker a little worse but it was still a stinker
true. sadly it does not off set the horrible acting.
But in the end, Dennis came with the new adaptation and it felt more grand and alien than Lynch's version ever was.
@@o-wolfno need to go after Lynch stans as if it's a bad thing. This is considered his only real misfire in a filmography of films that all feel more authentic.
Thing is, I love both of them. They're both incredible and perfect in their own ways.
Agree. The Baroque look of the Lynch version really does feel like the vision of an Empire in decline. And it covered a lot of the book that the Villeneuve version skips. But honestly, it doesn't seem like that much of a loss because Denis really gets the religious and political aspects down.
Both are amazing visions.
@@NorthForkFisherman I see it as an almost Sisyphean task, like trying to make a movie showing the Christian bible, or War and Peace, or Ann McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern; it's just too massive a task so there will always be nitpicks.
But me, I'm happy they even tried, twice. Even Jodorowsky's Dune has some incredible milieu to it I love too.
The world wasn't ready for Lynch's version yet. I've always liked it.
the sets of the 1980's dune are pretty magnificent though. and they had max von Sydow
I watched DV’s 1and2 back to back last week and my wife loved them so I dusted of DL’s version the day after which to my 60 year old memory of the 80’s and the book bother of which I’d not seen/read for 20 years I found although the pre cgi looks a bit creaky and the sets now read more watching Dune in a theatre I still find Lynch’s version despite the hamstringing superior. The latest is certainly more spectacle but the lack of thought narration and maybe because I’ve spent a good few years in the Arab states working remote a lot of what I saw in DV’s vision was just a little too easy
Only reason everyone hated 1984 version was that the story was impossible to understand in such short runtime. There is an alternate cut that is one hour longer and much better.
Lynch’s is the better version all around.
@@rest9661 I agree.. and if you told me 5 years ago that a 5+ hour version of Dune would manage to cover less of the story than the 2 hour version, I would have laughed, but here we are.
yah, there is a few scene that is better in the 80s version. like the worm riding or when Paul becomes the leader. you feel more the millions of people standing in the huge corridor and ready for the war in the 80s one
When I die I want to open my eyes to a space scene with a giant floating 1984 Virginia Madsen head giving me universe exposition.
Lynch sure as hell knows how to cast gorgeous actresses. Denis, eh, not so much. I mean, I really liked Ana de Armas for Joi and his version of Irulan is spot on but I prefer Virginia any day.
@@azmodanpcBalam Industries sponsored field trip.
She was so 🔥 as irulan. The new chich looks like a pug
@@azmodanpc Ever seen Zendaya?
@@azmodanpc Pugh looks like the girl next door rather than a product of 90 generations of genetic engineering like Virginia Madsen.
Villenueve stated, “I was very excited when I learned that the book would be brought to the screen. I remember watching the movie and being very mesmerized and impressed by how David Lynch approached it. I was destabilized by some of his choices. Yeah, David Lynch has a very strong identity as a filmmaker, of course, and it bled into the - it’s a fantastic interpretation of the book. But there were some choices that were made that was very far away from my sensibility. I remember watching the movie thinking to myself, ‘Someday, someone else will do it again in the future. It will happen.’ Because I didn’t feel that he captured some of the essence of, specifically, the Fremen culture - I felt that there was some things that were missing. That’s the nature of adaptation, you know?”
Thank you for this. This taught me a lot about David Lynch. It also taught me a lot about how passion projects materialize (through the Villeneuve side of this parallel). You can tell both loved Frank Herbert's Dune, but only one was able to faithfully adapted.
Poor David Lynch. I remember people just tearing his Dune apart when there is a lot to like about it, even if overall it is too compressed to be good. Still worth a watch for the art direction alone IMO.
There is nothing good about Lynch’s version. The entire premise of the story in the book is thrown out the window in the first scene with the Navigator demanding of the emperor to kill Paul… I’m mean c’mon.
@@ggroombr You're talking story tho. OP talked about art direction. Two very different things.
Although I like the new Dune, I still prefer David Lynch's style and vision. I would have loved to see what Lynch could have done with the franchise, had it not been for the heavy handed studio interference.
Back in the 1980s, pre-Lord of the Rings, movies were rarely greenlit to be 3+ hours long, unless it was some epic sword and sandals or Bible movie like _Cleopatra_ or _Ben Hur". The Director's Cut of the 1984 version is over 4 hours long, that was considered mind-blowing back then.
@@ggroombr There's nothing in the that scene that contradicts the book in anyway. It does nothing but improve the story. Having read it again, the book feels inadequate without it.
13:41 - "This is how Lynch shows his pain"
**cut to Paul literally screaming "THE PAIN!"**
Most subtly edited video essay
I think the most important point is that Denis Villeneuve was inspired by both his love for the source material and the 84 movie. He even talks about how he was so excited to see it. Even if some of the stylistic choices didn't align with how he felt the film should be made He talked about how inspiring it was to see.
Very interesting.
man you can just hear/see the pain from lynch... so sad was just wrong place wrong time. he said he hasn't seen the new dunes and wont it brings too much pain and bad memories.. i hope he does at some point and finds some comfort as well as genuine enjoyment to let go of the past. they were done beautifully
Dude had to tell the story with no time for details.
He did great
Cope
I can't disagree, but the old one has given us some iconic moments, plus a 6 year old stabbing a man, Patrick Steward being Patrick Steward and Sting being wild.
Patrick Stewart as Gurney does sound very appealing, even if Josh Brolin nailed it too
And a Royal Pug
And cat milking!
@@jingyulee96 Patrick Stewart is King Midas; everything he touches turns to gold.
Find his performances as Macbeth and as Claudius from Hamlet (starring David Tenant as the titular character), I speak the truth.
@@Phoenix8492 i don't think you want Patrick Stewart to be king Midas...
I really love the editing at the beginning of this video. The sort of chaotic back-and-forth jumping between the two adaptations.
The way Chalomet's expression turns in the Gom Jabar scene is spine chilling. He doesn't just endure the pain (longer than any former subject RM Gohim has tested), he embraces it and uses it as fuel for a hatred that will come back to haunt her later...
The shield effects in 1984 Dune are phenomenal moviemaking: they had to hand draw the effect frame by frame and I'm still not sure how they did the various reflections. Even if you don't like the final result, it's one of the most impressive effects in pre-CG cinema.
I think a lot of early sci-fi got panned bc it looks off and not bc the story, directing, or acting was the problem. Just trying things that the industry at the time could not support from a technical standpoint
The beginning of Lynch's Dune was to mirror the books. The voice overs in Lynch's were meant to mirror the books focus on inner thoughts as well. They don't work as well, but that's why those were emphasized.
that the thing with making an adaptation of a book into live action, you must know what work in literature and can be carry over and what cannot, its a important part as a book made words be words into a movie will be awful and vise versa
They work much better, it's unrealistic someone growing into such power in such a powerful background would bubble out trivialities or blurb about his moods. That just wouldn't happen, and instead, he would think. And what they expressed *sounded* like their thoughts.
Maybe it worked better in a time when reading skills hadnt degraded as much. I hope that that ain't true.
@@udirt that's because over 50% of people don't have inner monologue, they are NPC's that go bout their day.
some people can't comprehend that you can actually talk in your head.
You can actually emphasize the inner world of characters without literal voiceovers. In fact, Lynch is very good at that. I have a theory that voiceovers were added during post production because the studio was worried that people wouldn't understand what is going on.
@@anyawatchesmovies the voice over is done because that is what is written in the books, there is a lot of inner monologue.
Thanks for not just bagging on the old Dune. I watched it recently, and it really wasn't as bad as I had remembered. So many comparisons between the two versions boil down to "Old Dune Bad." I appreciate the thoughtful scene-to-scene breakdowns, and the interviews with the two directors. Nice work.
I missed just one thing from the old movie in the new one:
FATHER! THE SLEEPER HAS AWAKENED!
The worst part is it seems like lynch was actually a fan of the book too
I seriously doubt that. The weirding modules are a goddamn travesty
He had never read the book before he was offered the job.
nah, somethings he did there really wasnt things of books fan
The book he never read before accepting the role?
@@Neil-qg9cw He was offered before he'd read the book, but didn't accept until he read it. The script was very accurate. Frank Herbert loved the movie
I loved lynchs dune. Watched it as a kid and all the campiness flew over my head. I was just mesmerized by the costumes, the amazing amazing sets. In my mind arrakis and geddi prime seemed so real while watching. My imagination filled in the rest.
I hated the new one. The Lynch film is superior in every way. Most notably is he actually uses color effectively. The new one is color corrected to make everything muted and blue tinged like every other crap modern film.
@@SR-ob3wnTry harder
@@blank7764 no.
@@SR-ob3wn cope
@@boobster6211 With what?
accidentally clicked on this video, but a great watch none the less. Didn't even know there was another version of the dune world outside the modern films and the original book, really cool to see how even though both movies have an almost identical way of adapting the plot of the books into the films plot the modern one takes many more strides into envisioning the world through practical and visual effects which makes it a much more interesting and entertaining film to watch.
I want Villenueve's vision & script but I want 80% of Lynch's costume design. The glow lights, the sweeping gowns of the Bene Gesserits, the guild heighliner with its huge gold entry portal. That baroque feeling of a para militaristic society. The way everything that could be plain is over adorned. It was great.
Imo, other than some beautiful sets and costumes, the only thing the 1984 adaptation does better is Alia, the child actor was great, giving dept to the character and portraying an adult in a child's body. And she really does seem like an otherwordly creature and gives you the creeps.
Also Virginia Madsen is gorgeous and otherworldly as Irulan.
I don't know. Based solely on the clips shown here, Alia seems far more creepy than in the book. In the book, yes, she's creepy, but she's full of mature understanding, helpfulness and insight. She's not made out to be as creepy.
The new Dune actually covers less of the story than the 1984 Dune, despite being nearly three times as long. No Spacing Guild, very little of the Emperor, no Alia, no space folding, no weirding way, not as much of the Harkonnens. The final battle is somehow just as rushed as it was in the 1984 version that people have been complaining about for 40 years. It's actually an amazing accomplishment that Villeneuve was able to waste so much screen time on Paul dipping his hands in water and bickering with Chani, along with boring Fremen politics.
does better is a strange wording, considering theres whole 5 seconds of Alia in Deni's version. Decision to push her out was a strange one. She was kinda crucial. But maybe the way she appears in the end and kills the Baron can look like a deus ex machina of sorts, robbing Paul of a deserved victory over him.
@@metasystem8625she is creepy in the book, though it's much more subtle.
We can't judge a movie from fourty years ago with today's eyes. 1984 dune is actually a good movie. Lynch's worst is better than the best of some of today's directors.
Oh Imma judge it...
dont worry, they judged it pretty harshly back then too. I still love lynch but my man could not catch a break with studio interference. I just got done with twin peak season 2 and ive never felt more bad for a director.
It was judged in 1984 and deemed to be shit. This video literally shows critics of the time saying they hated it.
@@Not_a_Lizard_ True. I was reffering to the overall opinion on the video, so maybe people could take a diferente stance. I admit it's weird, a OST made by Toto, a narrator saying "I forgot", The cloaca face... But It has its merits too, awesome cast, good acting, and that noir (ish) style of Lynch's. I Just feel It deserves better.
Yes, yes we can.
We have a lot of movies to compare to, including the ones directed by Lynch. Hells, even he hated the movie.
Not to forget about my man Hans Zimmer. Genius behind the soundtracks
I liked that you kept the evaluation from the computer. It's nice to see what it thinks of your moves.
I don't care, I still enjoy Lynch's version. I watched it in the theatres when I was 7 and I loved it and terrified by it. I can still watch it today and enjoy.
The impact of The Voice definitely has a major diminished return on home watching. Same for the thumpers. They def need to boost those in Post for dvd releases of part 2
Nah it was amazing. You need to have a good sound system to experience that. Just watched today on my atmos home theatre
@@shanesahilreddyudumula yeah how much did that cost?
@@Calypso694 around 5-6k
buy better speakers
Its called a subwoofer 👍
The 2021 box scene perfectly conveyed the Reverend Mother's cold, heartless, and menacing nature. You genuinely get the feeling that killing Paul for failing the test is just another Tuesday for her.
The 1984 Reverend Mother sounded like a doctor checking up a patient.
great video, you were unbiased when discussing them, acknowledged both directors vision (and how Lynch was disappointed with his own). overall fantastic analysis. wish you dived more into Chani and even Irulan but that's okay
there is some genuinely good cinematography in old dune for its time, but as shown in the video it is ultimately plagued with exposition that just drags the pacing its unfortunate but it also shows that a more subtle approach like with what Denis has done can make you question and and figure it out on your own. Its that drip feed that enthralls you into this unknown universe.
Having like 3x the runtime to work with also helps to be fair
I kind of want someone to edit bits of the Lynch film to just be shots and music--with the dialogue and exposition muted or removed
I want to be able to breathe in the world and take in the fantastic sets and matte paintings. But the movie just forces so much exposition down your gullet, that even as a fan of the book, I kept getting lost with the plot at times
Denis is simply amazing at unobtrusive exposition and visual storytelling. that moment in Arrival where you start putting together the twist is truly something (my favourite movie so maybe I'm biased lol), and enhanced because you're working it out for yourself, not being told in the text what's going on.
Exposition that drags the pacing? What about how they sit with deep and grave expression[tm] in front of the pompous grandious[tm] desert landscape for 5 fucking minutes while acting no more than two little lambs.
@@udirt Choosing that over the exposition that makes me sleep any day of the week, brother
If I wanted an info dump, I'll go re-read the Annex pages of the Dune novel
Soundtrack by Toto, designs by HR Giger, David Lynch weirdness, better set design and details, internal voices closer to the books, WAY BETTER Dr. Yueh story (first half of book one is HIS story), Sean Young, Virginia Madsen, etc... there's still lots to love about Lynch's version.
I love the sandworms in Lynch's, and think the digital shields look great. The only problem with Lynch's is the compressed storytelling. It just needed to be longer.
I like Lynch's version better... as well as the ScyFy series
Giger didn’t do designs for the Lynch version, just for some unmade versions.
@@user-uy5mf8mw6x Giger sent Lynch his designs, Lynch didn't want to use his work, and yet, his influence is still felt in the sandworms, spice harvester, stillsuits, etc.
The set designs are way too different to be compared, I wouldn't call them better or worse. They're beautifully intricate and decorated, which is the opposite approach Denis took with his minimalist and grounded sets.
The old movie is full of blunt exposition, like voicing character's thoughts or needlessly explaining things out loud. All this was replaced by simple dialog and visual storytelling in the new movies, absolute masterclass.
This is a ONE FINE VIDEO! Thank you for your effort.
The 1984 Dune was a product of its time. I always liked it, esp being a non-Dune reader. It was a delight to see a serious SciFi movie that had depth and world building, a very rare thing at the time. You can tell it was a somewhat tortured production but that adds to it's depth in many ways. New Dune is astounding.
Yes new is yet it needed more storytelling for Paul. New movies focuses too much on action based and didn't give enough time and substance to the Spice..to the Emperor..and to the Shailu the Worms
Dune came out six years after Alien and Star Wars. It already felt dated around that time with poor visual effects.
@@Trazynn I'm pretty sure Alien came after Dune.
@@BarnaliD it really didn't. Star wars came out in 77, alien in 79, blade runner in 82, then Dune in 84.
Actually, no. The visual production is on the level of The Forbidden Planet, a movie form 1956. The whole aesthetic is steampunk, which is not futuristic and reminds of Jules Verne's stuff, like Journey to the Center of the earth. Compare the machinery in Dune 1984 and the one in Star Wars, for instance. Also, putting the visuals aside, WHO THE FUCK MAKES OVERDUBS OF PEOPLE'S THOUGHT IN A MOVIE?! Nobody does that "at the time", because that's just not how cinema works! We have tons of movie where people's thought are conveyed through body language and facial expressions. Dune 1984 failed hard on that point, and the time has nothing to do with it.
Old Dune Paul: "I am in pain"
New Dune Paul: "so anyway im the Lisan al Gaib"
Old dune looks soo cringy not because of CGI etc. the conversations themselves are conducted as if there was an idiot sitting in front of the screen who didn't understand anything and we had to explain it to him
@@lumpek4149You never read the books... They're written like Lynch's Dune: each and every character has long strings of thoughts conversating with themselves, just to analyze the situations, possibilities and outcomes plus the obvious exposition for the audience reading...
@@alessandrobaggi6129 i didnt said that i read books but in my opinion its just cringy that characters tell you what they feel and how they act. But true i dont know books
@@alessandrobaggi6129 Right, but film is a visual medium. If people want a medium that allows them to hear exposition and inner monologues spouted to them, they can get the audiobook. Also, I've read all of Frank's books at least twice, and like 8 of Brian's
@@lumpek4149 You're fine. The over-reliance on voiceover is one of the biggest problems of that movie, along with deviating from the source material. The weirding modules, for example, are a stand-in for the weirding way, which was a Bene Gesserit method of fighting that Paul taught to his best soldiers called the Fedayken.
The underlying cause of both problems was the ridiculous notion that the overall story of Dune could be told in one feature-length movie, which Villeneuve's dune demonstrates quite handily, IMO
did old Paul really say PAIN when he felt... pain. I CANT LMAO
Man, Denis has really done something masterful. This is a film set that will stand the test of time. Congratulations to everyone involved! And thank you from the fans. It's more than we could have ever imagined! Nice job!
And they're going to start working on 3 soon. weeeeeeeeeee
Personally I though the 84 version was a truly epic film. Still is one of my favorites. I still get chills with the music score. And for those who know where to look, the Spice Diver Fan Edit (including almost an hour of Lynch's missing scenes) truly is a treat to watch and captures so much of what the film should have been!
Agreed! I stumbled across the Spice Diver edit a few days ago. I intended to just watch a few minutes of it to see if I wanted to save it to watch later, but got so engrossed that I ended up watching the whole thing then and there. It's really good.
In Lynch’s version the say the consonants at the end of words. It seemed a deliberate shared pact by the actors!
It's very theatrical for sure.
@@theviniso So being able to clearly articulate has become an art now ... what a decadente world we are living in
@@patataboy Eh, it also sounded a bit weird when Patrick Stewart did it in Star Trek The Next Generation, and that was like 40 years ago. It's just not how people actually talk.
Its good practice tò have Sharp t's and d's, plus precise "s" sounds. The declamation in. Lynch's version Is so much more clear and the voice Is crispier. Even when whispering its all clear where now actors talk instead or reciting and have no projection, only tensed muscles and fake emotion.
@@patataboy That's how language works. It shifts over time to make things easier to say.
If you clearly pronounce each letter in the words as they're written, you sound like you're not a native speaker.
Dude, the delivery of your script is impeccable. And the script itself, the comparison and analysis, you've done well.
What a great edited and detailled video. Thanks!
I love how you did this comparison. Especially the last one, where Villeneuve managed to show Paul overcoming the pain in such a masterful way. Without a word everyone, even completely unfamiliar with the original story, knows immediately that this "ENOUGH" is not Reverend Mother's mercy, but she notices that she is no longer in control. Just like bully, who is losing a fight and shouts in the last possible moment "OK, I'm letting you go".
Of course Lynch did not have much time, but so many things didn't work properly in his Dune: it is both fast-paced and a bit too slow at the same time, with so much off-screen narrative, there are lots of details, but simply not where they would be very welcome (just like the box and Gom Jabbar scene).
I feel really sorry for David Lynch, who definitely was not in full control. Diune did such trauma to him, that he even refuses to watch the new one 😥
Except that in book it was: "The burning! The burning! He thought he could feel skin curling black on that agonized hand, the flesh crisping and dropping away until only charred bones remained. It stopped! As though a switch had been turned off, the pain stopped. Paul felt his right arm trembling, felt sweat bathing his body. "Enough," the old woman muttered. "Pain," she sniffed. "A human can override any nerve in the body.""
While in film it looked like Harry Potter vs Voldemort battle (or something from Star Wars, force vs force), in the book only Paul was in agony, it was a one-way game and Reverend Mother knew exactly what to expect during this test. Kwisatz Haderach was a result of 10 000 years of careful breeding, not some shocking event.
Oh, yeah. "ENOUGH!" ... "the old woman muttered" is an alternative version of "Dumbledore asked calmly"
In the new movie, we see Paul in pain, but it’s manageable. In the old, we see what is just manageable for Paul is superhuman.
What are you talking about Lynch version of gom jabbar is beat for beat and in terms of adaptation it is perfection. Villeneuve version felt empty by comparison.
@@lockaltubeYes, a book has internal monologue. In the new film it's expertly SHOWN with acting, how a film should be done. What do you people want? Inner monologues don't work in films, as 1984 demonstrates.
I didn't even know why I clicked on this video since I haven't watched either movie. But despite my lack of knowledge, this video perfectly explained everything, made me feel like I was part of the making and the movie, and had me in awe the whole time. This and youe channel definitely deserves more interaction.
This was a well made piece of propaganda, conditioning you to dismiss the other movie before you’ve seen it. The new Dune is a very good movie for this time but not without its flaws. Conversely, the old Dune is highly flawed but it is a beautiful disaster with amazing music and visual - you would never know that after watching this reviewer’s hatchet job.
@@sonofacheron the review never said the opposite of this, you did
Go watch the movies, they’re pretty great.
This review is biased trash. It's not an objective review. The original Dune, with all its drawbacks was by far the more grounded and realistic version, with subtle acting and a very real cast that gave credibility to each role. A soundtrack that really slaps and a setting that feels so futuristic and alien that it sucks you into it.
The new one is full of the same inbred actors and cg diarrhea that all movies have. It does not look realistic, it does not feel real, you do not see these characters as real people, you see them as characters in a movie and they can never be anything else.
Not that I am trying to discredit the new movie. But the old one feels much more Dune to me than the new one.
@@JoeTAC lol & the video is biased? okay
Old Dune: More like a theater play
New Dune: More realistic and cinematic
Villeneuve's Dune is by far the BEST adaptation. Especially in Part 2 when things were coming to a head.
Lynch's Dune... I did enjoy it... and it is what inspired me to read what would go on to be my all time favourite series of novels... even though it missed the mark for all of the reasons laid out in this video... so it still has a place in my heart regardless.
But to hear how hobbled Lynch was in his efforts to adapt Dune is nothing short of heartbreaking. It sounds like he had something better in mind than what he was allowed to film.
It makes me wonder what he could have accomplished had he been allowed to work under the same parameters that Villeneuve did. Could he have made something that good... at least relative to the constraints of 1984's level of cinematic technology?
80s version is cheesy and belongs to it’s time, but it has a lot of heart. Still a great watch.
yeah i am glad it exists even if it wasn't as good as it could of been
I wonder how people will look back at this dune, and by extension the movies released during this time period. Will they see them as cheesy and dated, or will the special effects and writing still hold up enough to be relevant in 100 or so years.
I’m more inclined to believe the latter because we still revere some old movies and stories, but there’s always the possibility everything ages super terribly lol.
I’ll bet some things, like the marvel movies, will be seen as products of their time, while the more serious stuff will still be well liked.
I prefer the old Dune. The new Dune is colourless, feels too modern in a bad way, the main character feels kinda stale. And I like that it's a single film, not dragged out like what they did to The Hobbit. Old fantasy/sci fi movies had some amazing sets and scenery, very intricate and creative. I don't like the ultra minimalistic modern look new Dune has.
@@paulvontarsus729 Exactly! Modern movies are so sterile. No heart.
@@Bob-po2dp The new Dune already reeks of modern film tropes. The acting style, dark and gritty atmosphere, cold color grading, and everyone fucking mumbling is exactly representative of your average blockbuster these days.
The depiction of "The Voice" in Denis Villneueve's Dune is immaculate. You really can FEEL the voice in your guts and the camera motion really emphasizes how such power could really force something against your own will.
"In lynch he gets mind controlled, in new dune he seems to be controlled" Bro it's the same thing, mind control is mind control and neither paul seems happy about it
This is better than any trailer. This made me actually want to go to the cinema and appreciate this movie for what it is.
I still like the old one for what it is, but yeah- the new ones are like a religious experience. They are incredible..
Yes, it’s so theatrical and camp and I appreciate it for it, but the new movies are so immersive you forget yourself watching it
I saw Dune "David Lynch" in a outdoor theater in Varkiza, Greece, august 1985. I´m still in love with it, even if Mr. Lynch isn´t.
this was a really, really good video essay
Great analysis. I first read the book while in the Army in Viet Nam. I’d been a Heinlein reds before that. Dune was different and rich. Very rich with character, history, economics and technology. The new movie reflected more of that richness and the characterizations were a step in the right direction. Having watched parts 1 and 2 I am impressed and captivated. I will be looking at the new films a few more times to see more of hat was missed and what came new to the telling. I was impressed. Quite impressed.
This is a great comparison video. I especially like how you included the interview with Lynch, he deserved so much better.
So.....
You can find the spicediver edit of the 1980s dune on YT and it's nearly 3hrs long, the fight with Jamis happens, and you see the Atreides castle standing on a cliff next to the ocean.
There's also a sci Fi channel mini series of Dune.
«sci Fi channel mini series of Dune»
i dont like that ppl ignore it as if it doesnt exist. It conveys the book much better than Linch's version. And it continues to the Children of Dune. I watched it twice, still good.
@@TiMonsor I've watched it literally dozens of times. I was like 12 when it came out, and I'd coincidentally read Dune as assigned reading in school. A lot of it went over my head, like Paul being the bad guy, but I loved both the book and miniseries. I preferred the miniseries to Lynch's version, as it stuck closer to the book, despite the noticeably lower production value
@@TiMonsor It's a soulless TV production. Being faithful doesn't mean much when there's no actual entertainment value.
@Zoroasterisk i just watched it. Now i will rewatch it
@@Zoroasterisk Paul isn't the bad guy though. Clearly it's still going over your head.
Villeneuve did an amazing job bringing the world of Dune to life in a way that both reflects the unknown of the far future but also is relatable to our current level of civilization.
Thank you for this. I had been wondering what the differences were. I was reluctant to see Villaneuve’s adaptation. Now, I may just invest the time.
I like the attention to detail in the design of the new Dune's Gom Jabbar, but Lynch's Dune had a much more book accurate version. It is literally described at one point as a thimble with a thin needle at the end if I remember correctly.
Lynch Paul yelling "THE PAIN" is the greatest cinematic moment of all time, prove me wrong.
I'm tired of the whispers , give me the yells .
lol what an insane statement
Is this satire 😭
@@hongngocle7644 I don't know the op but i am serious
Really love the side by side comparison. I grew up on the '84 Dune, liked it, but always wanted this one to be made.
No one will ever replace Sir Patrick Stewarts Gurney
1984's Dune (what a year for something to come out in) leans more to the witch side of the Bene Gesserit, while Denis takes the priestly nun aspect; the projection of political power through religious ritual.
Good observation! I haven't seen that pointed out that way before!
It's a silly film
@@pointblank2890that's why Jessica has so much more depth and strength in the old one. The new one takes away her power, defiance, the love and cunning behind her scheming against the masters of schemes, her will to fight and any and all agency. It's a horrible degradation of her as a human respected by one of the most powerful person in the universe, a mother who will kill without a second thought to protect her son and wants to fihht beside him to a mommy onlooker and bystander.
Cinematography, scale, Dennis direction and vision of the world is incredible. He makes the world the characters are in so realistic and relatable. Blade runner 2049 and both Dune are legendary sci-fi cinema.
Arrival is one of my favourite movies ever
@@bencressman6110 Yup sicario to some extent, just the tense entrance into Juarez.
Blade Runner 2 is so overrated, no surprise no one watched it
They're both so overrated, BR2049 WAS SO BORING AND SO WAS NEW DUNE DVS TASTE IN CINEMATOGRAPHY IS SO BORING BLAND
@@Spillow-C people would have to watch it, to overrate it
Yeah the pain scene in the new dune was executed absolutely amazingly! Was such a powerful moment for Paul’s character
An excellent essay, I think you've nailed it. I grew up with the Lynch film and I always wanted to like it, but for so many reasons you've pointed out, I never could. I would also point out that Lynch's film had a soundtrack done by a pop/rock band (TOTO) and a musical experimentalist (Brian Eno). And while I love that soundtrack dearly, it almost feels like a separate piece from the film itself. Like it goes with it but doesn't come from it.
As others have commented: these are two separate adaptations of the same source material, which is very different than a remake, which implies that the Lynch version was an original script.
Just as the 2017, 2019 It part 1 and 2 are adaptations of the 1986 Stephen King novel; not the 1990 television miniseries.
Exactly!
Why are so many people making this comment…? He literally talks about how they’re both adaptations of the book in the video lol
I love both adaptations.
U shown us what it means to understand a movie. Well done! :)
I love the way Villeneuve talks about film making makes you realize stuff our tiny non film maker brains missed. Big fan of both Dunes each in their own way....been very happy thus far with new.
Tbh it's a lot harder to do things the first time. They also had a tv show to learn from in adapting it long form.
The spice miner cut makes 84 dune very similar to Lawrence of arabia
Spice Diver, but yes and thank you for pointing it out.
This comparison really shows how much more intimate and genuine movies feel now. It's a shame Lynch had to deal with so much studio meddling, but his version feels too dramatic to seem real, too theatrical to feel genuine. It just kills suspension of disbelief, at least, for me.
Wonderful comparison. Two very different movies from very different times and directors. I think Lynch Dune gets too much hate. It hasn't aged well, but when I saw it the first time I was super into it. Now as an adult I see it and I see a lot of technical limitations, but at the same time a lot of super cool tricks that are not used in today's cinema. The new Dune movies are just masterpieces in all aspects; I love Villeneuve's vision and directing. I wonder what David Lynch would have done in this day and age with modern tech, and if he got to make two movies instead of one. I believe he would have gotten his masterpiece as well.
Three, dammit. There are _three_ adaptations of Dune.
Nobody seems to remember the ScyFy version, do they?
@@hankrearden20 And it's better than the 1984 version, so that's especially infuriating.
Correct , there are two movie adaptations and one very professional school play.
Yes, they really need to touch on the miniseries, that was my preferred version. They didn't have the budget of the most recent one, but they still took the time to flesh out the story.
The TV miniseries actually followed the book more closely than either movie adaptations. It even included the scene where Paul and Chani's 1st child was murdered by the Harkonnens. However the made for TV version suffered from poor production and weak acting. All in all, Villenueve's adaptation was the most satisfying. Truly epic.
Not a "remake", it's a new version of a book(s)
Feel like this should have included John Harrison's 2000 Dune.