1961: Should IRISH IMMIGRATION to BRITAIN be Restricted? | Panorama | World of Work | BBC Archive
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- čas přidán 17. 12. 2023
- "A stormy question."
Panorama's John Morgan considers whether immigrants from the Republic of Ireland should still be freely admitted into Britain, at a time when the number of citizens admitted from Commonwealth countries are being restricted.
With Irish workers playing such a huge role in the construction, hospitality and nursing sectors, can Britain afford to lose them?
Clip taken from Panorama, originally broadcast on BBC Television, 20 November, 1961.
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Gad what a turnaround... over 300K Brits in the Republic now, and millions more trying to wangle an Irish passport so they can stay in Spain, or travel in Europe.
You can't get an Irish passport unless you're entitled to one
@@margin606they give them to anybody these days
@@jingoist-sj8gj Complete rubbish
@@margin606people over 3 generations and you can’t get a passport.
What about the Brits who have ancestors that came from Ireland in 19th Century to escape the potato famine of 1848?
Well, no Smiths, no Elvis Costello, no Sex Pistols, no Oasis, no Shane McGowan, no Caroline Aherne, or Frankie Boyle, or Steve Coogan, Paul Merton, or Jack Grealush fir that matter. Most of the Beatles were the grandsons of Irish immigrants too. England would have missed out on a lot, dont you all think.
Wow sounds great.
No pikey tarmackers!
Well said
and in Scotland arguably the biggest monument to Irish immigration Celtic fc
@@Romchav >Celtic FC
Another cultural deficit.
As an Englishman, I have noticed we get terribly jealous about "Our" accomplishments, but we are very slow to acknowledge that all the nations of the Union, and a great many more of our Imperial dominions and holdings, always pulled their own weight and more besides.
So yeah, beyond our moral debt to the Irish for the cruelty and incompetence of our past Imperial governance of their nation, we do also owe them greatly for the difficult and dangerous labour they provided building most of our "very english" monuments and institutions.
Well said chum!!!....The Irish,, English Scottish Welsh,,, We're all the friggin same.. we're only a post stamp in comparison to the rest of the world!!!!!...
For context, I consider myself a patriot and a lover of history, which is why I desperately wanted to be proud of my country.
Discovering that so many of this nations accomplishments came at a dear price to others hurt me, but I prefer knowing now why we are so reviled and will try to learn from it as opposed to deluding myself into believing we were ever the "Good Guys" or that things were better when we were in charge.
There is an idea of Britain that I can happily be proud of somewhere, but it's going to take a lot of hard work to get there. It won't be easy or simple to accomplish but I think it would be worth all the difficulty.
English money paid for them and the monuments and so they are English. They weren't doing us a favour, they weren't helping out out of the goodness of their hearts. They were doing it for money and that is where the 'debt' ends, the money they got for their labour.
My word, is there a more self-loathing breed than the middle class English.
@MultiKommandant how can people who didn't live in the past have "moral debt" and obligations? This is dangerous thinking. This kind of thinking is the very thing that leads to exploitation. The very thing you claim to be against. The modern English and even the majority of British in the past weren't profiteering. Most were the cheap labour themselves before immigration came.
How would a lower class brit on welfare have obligations to upper class from the common wealth?
I'm not British, I'm Irish by the way.
@MartinMartinm Not to mention the Irish that came to work here were also paid for their work. They weren't doing it for free so why do we owe them a moral debt?
My nan and Grandad came over to West London from Co. Mayo in the 60's. She was a nurse he was foreman on the roads, Irish did the majority of rebuilding post war, we owe them a debt.
Recognition yes but not a debt. I agree that the UK would not have its current infrastructure of motorways, airports and much of its housing stock without the hard work of Irish men from the 1940s onwards like my father. However Irish people who worked were paid, given mortgages, pensions, social security, able to use the NHS, their children had the same access to education as the children of British people. I got a full university grant in the 1980s. I don't feel the UK owes me or my parents anything. It's been very fair to us.
@@pablodelnorte9746 Where in Mayo. Yeah used to annoy me back in the 90's when you got Irish people in London whinging about 800 years of oppression....when we were all glad to take the queens schilling
mine too! They were froma place called ballina I think. never been there.
@@pablodelnorte9746 More of an expression than an actual debt. What I think I mean is an acknowledgement for the Irish contribution to the UK would be nice from time to time.
@@pablodelnorte9746 I think the word 'debt' is not meant literally but metaphorically.
Imagine interrupting a fella when he's in the middle of a tune on his harmonica.
Here we are 62 years later and the people who employ these individuals are using the same lines about how British people don't like to do these sort of jobs. 😆
We have vastly different levels of immigration now .. vastly 😂
But they don’t like doing them. Or rather their wives don’t.
Employers paying them under the table cash in hand. Then they'll scamper off before the taxman catches up with them 🤷♂️
@@PoldarkGodzillajust the shade of skin.
@@StiofanMacSiomoin1798 Over a million a year & here they did say the Irish would go back - also, people from Moldova have the same skin colour & they're extremely different people from the Irish.
They need not have worried. Irish migration has gone way into reverse in Britain now. Numbers are gone into decline year on year and immigration in Britain is now from all over the world. The same in Ireland too. People are here from far flung places. The economics have transformed and all of this in this video seems a world away now.
According to the Irish statistics office there was approximately 30,000 more UK citizens emigrating to Ireland than Irish emigrating to the UK between 2016 and 2022 . This is an aggregate figure not annual. In 2022 the figures were roughly equal.
@@perkinscrane Would be interested to see the demographic breakdown of the migrants though. For most young and skilled workers in these isles - London/SE England is still the 'best place to be' economically. The gap between London/SE England and say Dublin has definitely narrowed though since the video was shot.
Whereas as I understand it, more older/retirees/established workers are choosing to move to Ireland for the better quality of life i.e., more outdoors/space in rural Ireland.
@@ruxiist I think that there was a "Brexit" effect but this is now tapering away.
@@perkinscrane How many of those are Irish citizens also moving home? I understand any irishman is entitled to UK Citizenship & passport, regardless of familiar ties. Myself am generations away from my immigrant forebears yet oddly enough can still count up to one quarter irish blood. Funny that. People really didnt mix until the 1960s. My Grandmother told me there was a lot of bad blood between her english family and my Grandfathers Irish Family, I was told mostly because my grandmother refused to convert to catholicism when they married.
My grandfather Vital Gustave Arnhem fled to Great Britain from France during World War I in order to join the Belgian frontline (Flanders fields), where he fought until the Armistice. He was born in 1899 but altered his birthdate to 1889. After the war, he recounted to my father that his time in England was far from pleasant and that he experienced racism, despite being only about 16 or 17 years old.
Greetings from Belgium, EU.
What race was he?
@@personalemail2537😅😂
Zeer bedankt broeder. Merci beaucoup pour votre histoire.
@@personalemail2537 what race are you?
Belgium have an awful history in Africa and their treatment of slaves. They were the most ruthless of all European empires. King leopold committed genocide on millions of Africans cutting off the limbs of their children to ger the parents to comply. Your grandad was lucky he wasn't African and living under Belgium rule or he would have been treated much worse than the British treated him.
I don’t care what nationality a man is, as long as he is Irish. Actual quote from 1930’s Dr. Kildare movie. My parents both left Ireland in 1949 for America after spending a lot of time in England. I used to have a lot of cousins in England but most moved back to Ireland during the economic boom and when they retired. The world is a very different place now.
Just imagine the trouble construction workers have to wear tie in the 60’s yet hard hat wasn’t yet a pre-requisite
My Irish parents came to England for work they met and married in London then moved to Essex where I was born in 1961
@@lervish1966what is a clover hat? I googled it...still nothing 😂.
The St Paddy's day parade in London, are largely locals with Irish backgrounds.
Do you consider yourself Irish or English?
🌲🦨🐕🏕🌍 This colleen was expecting her third child , she was really worried because she heard every third baby born is Chinese......read more
@positivelynegative9149 he would be Irish by blood and ethnicity, and British by nationality/citizenship.
Nothing But the Same Old Story by Paul Brady is a great Irish folk song depicting this era of Irish people emigrating to the UK for work. They built roads, rail lines and houses and were mocked by the British as 'thick Paddy's' in the pubs at the weekends. My uncle died in his early 80's and still got angry when he described the treatment he and his friends were subjected to when they were young men fresh off the boat. He was lucky and made it back home & had a family. A lot of his friends ended up old and penniless in bedsits around outer London and Birmingham and died alone.
I'd imagine it was the same for Asian, Afro Carribean and Eastern European immigrants to the UK over the years. Always feel solidarity with new immigrants trying to make better lives for themselves & contributing to their new home.
There's six million people in the UK with at least one Irish grandparent.
Without the Asian immigrants from the 1960's onwards there wouldn't be a food production industry in England. Same for the clothing industry. Each nationality bring their own set of skills, the Irish helped built Britain post war and further back dug the canals by hand. The English diet at the time was so bad the men didn't have the stamina for that hard graft. The Irish thrived on meat and spuds and beer. The present day Brit is not responsible for the sins of the fathers, so lets drop this "they owe us" mentality.
@@sklenars You glory in the so-called historical triumphs, but you disown the historic sins...
@DMHS77: I remember the treatment meted out to the Irish in Ladbroke Grove along with the blacks. It is a shame the Irish now hate black immigrants and speak about them in the same vein that they used to be spoken about by the British.
@@iconoclast2679 Irish triumphs all the same. Lets remember who made up 1/3rd of Victorias all conquering army, and built empire along with Scottish, Welsh and English BROTHERS. Fraternity is our greatest strength, yet so many cast this aside.
Being half Irish my self Irish had a very hard time in the late 60s and 70s in England as they had to go back some of them because they where hated because of the bombings by the IRA
They hated Irish because they’re racist.
Can imagine that was difficult. Unfortunately Britain created the I.R.A, could of been avoided if Britain would have just kept their noses out of other peoples countries
My grand parents also had a hard time in London during the 50/60’s. As a kid in the 70’s I remember my grandmother telling me of the signs on windows saying’No dogs no blacks no Irish’ . Her husband my grandfather served in WW2 as did her brothers and got no recognition from the Irish republic or British people. Also the British government was knocking out lots of negative Irish propaganda. Unfortunately even to this day British people don’t really understand or are taught how badly the Irish were treated. I know myself growing up in London as a kid none of my friends had any idea of the history between Britain and Ireland
@@2xmxyn993 Not even keeping their noses out of other peoples countries. Successive British Governments in their Arrogance and lack of forsight decided to turn Northern Ireland over to a bunch of Proto Facists in unionism, who decided to beat the Catholics (Half the population) into submission or exile with the full mechanisms of the state. If the local Goverment deems you an enemy in your own country and uses the police and army to harass you and routinely turn off the water and electricity to let you know who's in charge, there's going to be trouble. If say everyone north of birmingham could'nt get a house, a job, was subject to pogroms and was beaten of the streets when they march for civil rights, there would be a second civil war. Hence the inception of the Provisional IRA. A literal Frankenstein's monster.
I was in London for 8 years, 1987-1995,2 negative comments in that time, brits are sound.
As an Irish person, the Irish accent was so different than today. I wonder how accents change so much.
Access to mass media.
Nigerian Irish and Pakistani British 🎉🎉🎉MAGA FROM IRELAND 🇮🇪
Sady that has happened in most countries in Europe, it will be a sad bad day when we all talk with American accents, I deal with people who come from all over the world and I don't worry to much about the sound of people's voices, I am far more impressed by honesty and human goodness and kindness of people from all walks of like, if you treat people well and look for the good in people them you will find it post times and forgive those who are having a bad day
@@jamesbradshaw3389 We should be asking why half the world speaks English..& why only a small minority speak their native languages in Celtic countries..Answer, it was spread through conquest and genocide..
So, the British conquered and genocided the Swedes, the Dutch, the Portuguese, etc (where virtually EVERYONE can speak English) ? Don't be wrong all your life. One day it might depend on you being right@@zivkovicable
Thanks for posting it, BBC. As a foreigner living for more than 17 years in London, it was fascinating.
You’re not welcome here.
@@Cal-Valhalla Nobody cares what you people think. You don't matter. Surely you must have realised that by now?
Leave
Lol
@@Cal-Valhallayes they are. Now stop crying
Like many Londoners I have Irish ancestry. They came over at the turn of the last century to dig out the docks. The Irish also don’t get the credit(along with indigenous Brits) for rebuilding London after WW2..
Thanking you most kindly
No indeed. We are being force fed the fiction that England would have remained a series of bombsites if it had not been for the arrival of Caribbeans from 1948 onwards. I was born in the 1960s but I am told there weren't many Jamaicans doing the hard physical work in construction that the Irish and some British people did.
If they came over at the end of last century they weren’t immigrants , they were simply moving from one part of the UK to another !
@@pablodelnorte9746I saw that too. BBC or someone a few years back gave the Windrush all the credit for that despite it being overwhelmingly being the Irish.
The Irish lads are all grafters and are certainly responsible for building much of the UK.Believe me they are great company socially and great work companions.
as an Irish man i have to say the English on the whole are a sound bunch I have never had any bother travelling around England.. we drink, eat and watch the same things and speak the same language we're culturally very similar anyway
Exactly, I've never really understood people who speak otherwise. We are all from the same neck of the woods. We drink the same beer, eat the same food and speak the same language oh and the weather is crap lol.
Agreed. My mum's parents came to England in the 50's . I'm fond of my Irish heritage and admire anyone who comes to another country to make something of themselves. My identity comprises Irishness, Welshness but I also consider myself English . I dont find these in conflict with each other . Historically London has done some terrible things to the Irish people but on the whole the relationship is a friendly one and we have much in common. History in general ought to be taught better and injustices shouldn't be swept under the carpet but it feels like some people like to hold onto old grievances as an excuse to hate others and feel morally superior.
"We" do not speak the same language. Our language is Irish. The only reason you speak Englusg is because your English masters beat the Irish out if your ancestors.
God save us from west brits.
@@tonto8029 Some just seek division.
When I was an apprentice in Hammersmith, my foreman used to tell me the only tools paddy’s can use are the broom, dustpan and kettle. I didn’t complete that apprenticeship funnily enough.
If my Irish grandfather didn’t come over in the 50s then I wouldn’t be alive.
Similar: my Irish grandma around 1920
You would... but you would be in Ireland
Do you ever see yourself as an imperfect being?
@@gordondavies7773 His grandmother is british...Common sense duh
Yup. Me too. Yet here I am, paying 40% on earnings.
The buildings Portland House in London Victoria. Now covered in scaffolding and being totally stripped out, refurbished and reclad. Nice to see a 60 year old building survive and updated after all those fellas work.
The Irish built modern London. I worked on the building sites up to the early 90's.....very few English would do the work I did. Those that did, were from the North of England, or cockneys. I loved London, met some lifelong friends, English and Irish, but it's a changed city and ountry now.........more's the pity. Looking back, they were good times.
Cant speak for London but my Grandad was a builder in Oldham in the 1950s but had to change careers because the building firms would only hire Irish Catholics or those of Irish Catholic heritage. Nothing to do with the English bring "lazy" and everything to do with immigrant communities preferring those of their own ethnicity once they establish themselves and dominate any one particular industry. Same with asians and taxi firms in many towns now.
@@TheThundertaker Great comment. Interesting that they were using the same old "lazy English" trope back then as a defence for procuring work for their own ethnicity.
Cockneys and northern English are still English.why this attempt to minimise English efforts
The anglo built England not irish
@@vre7474is that right ted give your Head a shake 🤭🤣
My father worked in London subjected to disgusting prejudice as a child I heard all their stories- my father lived out of hellholes 😢
That's white privilege in todays lingo! They were lucky enough to travel abroad :)
I like the one at 06:09 a very well spoken and educated man. Britain owes Ireland a moral debt.
Nope.
The Republic is financially fairing very well now but Northern Ireland isn’t
@@stjohnssoupIreland has fake Gdp numbers.
It's not doing well at all.
Ya a man who knows his history, they don’t like it 😅
His mate was onto something too
They weren't complaining during the Napoleonic wars, when 30% of the British army and 25% of the Royal Navy were Irish....
The complete absence of Irish in the air force seems to have slipped your mind?
@@margin606 There was no such thing as an air force during the Napoleonic era. I can't believe I had to actually explain that. 😂 Go back to sleep, mate.
@@margin606 Youngest ever Wing Commander in the RAF, Brendan Finucane was Irish. Dermot Boyle was head of the RAF after WW2 and into the 60's. Even my dad was in the RAF during WW2 and he was Irish too. There were thousands of Irish in the RAF, the last surviving Battle Of Britain pilot John Hemingway still lives in Dublin aged 104. Please stop your nonsense.
@@margin606Oh my life, I hope you're joking.
@@fincorrigan7139 I think you'll find that WW2 did not fall within the Napoleonic era
No Irish immigration: No Lennon and McCartney, No Morrissey and Marr, No Johnny Rotten, No Gallagher brothers. We could go on and on...In short, most great British music is really Irish...
Don't forget John Major james Callaghan Denis Healey Shane McGowan Boy George, Harry Kane Kevin Keegan Owen Farrell Tyson Fury and two of the most despicable politicians one could ever wish to meet Margaret Thatcher Tony Blair.
They’re all born in England mate so they’re not Irish
Incredibly bad luck for the Irish that every great Irish artist of the past century has been born and raised in England.
Plastic paddies just like the Northern Irish!
That is not the point he is making.@@TC8787-yq7og
Bought my Dad a book years ago the men who built Britain. Let’s face it we kinda did.
major part of the transport construction workers but only 40pc of the victorian navvies were irish
Remember travelling around North Wales in the 70's and seeing the signs in the boarding houses stating that certain people need not enter the premises. Why does nothing ever change.............
I'm surprised the race Relations Act of 1968 made that sort of thing illegal. When it was made illegal the BBC were sending black reporters to houses to check If landlords were still discriminating against them.
No dogs no blacks no Irish ☘️ in that order
in the 70s? really?
@@jonathanjonathan7386Welsh-Irish Celtic beef most likely
The every day people of England and Ireland have never had much problem getting along with each other, being in the building trade myself I've worked with the Irish for close to forty years, l can nearly understand what they are saying now.
😂
😄As a Mayo man I still struggle with the Kerry accent lol
Nice cameo appearance from Gordon Jackson at 3:29. He nailed the accent.
Mentioned £30 per week. Worth over £800 in today's money.
Going on your calculation Rob, they would be allowed today as their earnings would be just over governments threshold, if we didn't have the common travel area. Sadly a building site labourer's average today pay is £24,375 per year.
We need more homes, and we need more construction workers.
Im on 38000 euro.and a labourer.
@Shay-bp7yt I'm now semi retired and make less than $20,000 a year as a part-time school bus driver. I've never been happier.
Also mentioned seven day week
Equivalent to 800 into days money in that's case nothing as changed most construction workers gets 800 a week if lucky
If only the reverse had been considered: Restricting the flow of immigrants from the island of Britain to the island of Ireland. A lot of pain, heartache and misery could have been avoided.
The first recorded population movements across the Irish Sea were from Ireland to Wales and Cornwall at about the time the Romans withdrew their garrison from Britain. And not all later migrants in the opposite direction were volunteers. St. Patrick for one. The Irish themselves are only about 60% ancient Irish stock, even discounting recent immigrants and Ulster Scots. The situation is more nuanced than most admit.
Wow. Admitting that mass immigration has bad consequences! Why is it that consequences are only considered one way though?
@@markaxworthy2508dont mention paddy bein stole by irish slavers, your spoiling the victim narrative
My grandad came from Achill Island to England to work in construction in the 1920’s. I’ll be moving back there ASAP!
Getting expensive in achill now
I played football often in Achill as a young lad. A beautiful place when the sun shines, but when the wind blows, I’d struggle to clear the ball out of the box!
This makes me incredibly sad. This, men and women, this is what we had to "contend" with in the 20th century. Quaint.
Contending with much better pay than in the 26 counties.
As far as immigrants go, the Irish would be the gold standard, strong work ethic, similar culture and bring a lot to the table.
You suffer from great delusions my friend. We have been developed for some time and as such, have largely lost our ability to put up with horrible work conditions. Your best immigrants are the ones you have
What a load of rubbish I lived in Roehampton a massive Irish population there they are all on benefits living in the Alton estate shame they don’t all go back to Ireland.
Who would be bottom tier then in your eyes?
They were accused of criminality, extremism, drunkenness and laziness by the same kinds of people who say that about all immigrants.
But at least they weren't beheading people@@markpower9081
7 of my grand uncles emigrated to England. London (Barnet) Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham and Blackburn. I have so many cousins in England I have never met. Sometimes I wonder what England looked like in the late 1920s and 1930s, that was the era when they emigrated from Ireland. So much has changed since those days, and not for the better
unrestricted immigration from ireland was alright with me. good people. solid and hard-working. we'll take as many as want to come.
Much better then them scammers coming of the dingys.
no we wont
They faced plenty of hostility, immigrants in large numbers always do.
@@markpower9081 poor mark
@@markpower9081 good
Can we get the BBC to call us Éire again? So nice to hear.
Ask any Irish building site worker at the time.. ,mostly they will tell you they got treated better by English site managers than the Irish ones..
I think that may still be the case!
That story doing the rounds for years, a bit of half half.
Yae especially if he was from Mayo , keep the big mixer going no matter what happens.🦍
@@margin606 Yea probably bit of a half truth I’m second generation Irish .. all my uncles and my father worked on the buildings and motorways .. from labourers to site managers .. hard life but no work in Ireland but I think they were glad to be out of it and make a new life in England ..
With the women at 5:40, I'm struck by how the "six counties" were not mentioned more often during this debate. It was 1961. The Troubles had not yet begun.
delightful wee video
@1:47 Such eloquence
Such simple days compared to what we have now
Allowing that this documentary is of its time, the reference to racism is neatly highlighted by the phrase used around 7:27 "other equally musical migrants who are part of the commonwealth"
Love the Irish. They got on very well with the Windrush Generation. Lovely people.
Worked with an old boy who was telling me they used to go to Brixton to The Ram Jam Club. Time of his life. Wall to wall with black beauties he said😂😂.
It wasn't easy for those Irish lads (the vast majority decent folk too) leaving home, usually a rural home and moving to a foreign country and living in large cities like London, Birmingham, Manchester etc. Not helped by abuse and ridicule that came from some of the English, while having to move from job to job when the time arrived. Hat's off to them.
It wasn't really a foriegn country. Most Irish at this time, would have been alive when Ireland was a nation within the United Kingdom. The vast majority would have been alive when Eire, was a dominion within the British Empire, which lasted until 1947. All Irish people, and British people, had equal rights to work, study, emmigrate and stand for election in each others country. Not to mention the shared language and culture. Britain was not a forieng country in any sense of the word. Both countries even shared a currency.
No labor is unskilled.
Waow, what an insight into times past. Many attitudes have changed and many are still the same. Some people talked like they were from the 60s, and others like they were millenials.
Given the way this uk is now a lot of British people would be delighted if only the Irish were allowed in since the end of WW2
What about restricting English settlers in other parts of the UK , they are like locusts.
What about other citizens of the Empire / Commonwealth ?
If you lived in the 1960s you would be saying the Irish were all terrorists, taking your jobs and should go back. But now replace the Irish with Pakistani and you get your sentiment today.
You may bring up Islamic extremism, but what about the IRA? They bombed not just Northern Ireland but Manchester and London too. They tried to kill the royals and the prime minister. So why do you think the Irish are “compatible” with British culture, but a Pakistani or Arab or African isn't?
It’s the exact same stuff as it was back then. Nothing changed but skin colour.
@@daneenmurf1043not so delighting
@@wouldntyouliketoknow9919 can you explain the difference ?
I'm glad my mother came from Ireland to Coventry in 1963 when she was just 17.
So young to leave home. But she obviously settled and went on to have family.👍☘️
All the comments seem to be so negative I met an Irish woman 20 years ago who came to Manchester in 1956 with half a crown (12.5p) and her clothes in a brown paper parcel. She lived in a very large comfortable house and her children had so totally integrated that her son swam for England in school championships.
bless her
@@freebeerfordworkerssounds like she married well, bully for her I guess!
She married an Irishman who became a successful contractor so you could say yes. As one expat to another we had a long chat comparing our experience.
@@liammeech3702
Despite our history, we are part of the same family, we should stand as one given todays climate
The English working class you mean
Nope.
In that case you need to do a better job of studying origins of the Celtic race versus Saxons etc…. At this point we have very little in common with a third state who are hell bent on making themselves one of the least productive and poorest nations in Europe beyond a common language. Today in terms of attitude and economics we have more in common with most of the Euro group nations and in particular Germany and Austria. And the bigger that gap gets the better for Irish independence.
@@dooley-ch the British and Irish descend from bell beakers. And no the Irish aren’t descended from celts they just took Celtic culture from Europe and appropriated it
My Da came home in 1961 & took his lovely wife & 2 kids alongside ! Your loss our gain !!
I've never understood the underlying racism against the Irish, who are genetically very similar to the English. This was a blatant form of 'social' racism, driven by bigotry and hatred of the Catholic religion.
They're not similar at all, there's a reason why they were hated, and now they've displaced entire cities in England like Liverpool where they are very subbversive
@@fyrdman2185 Subversive? Why?
@@tancreddehauteville764 Look at the history of IRA bombings and killings of British civilians and police officers, this is not only during the Troubles but even back during the early 20th century, a lot of the members were born in Liverpool or Manchester and if they were not born there they were certainly assisted by the irish community there. Even Scottish independence, it would not have even been a thing had it not been for mass irish immigration to places like Glasgow, that's what the whole Rangers vs Celtic is about, just the native Scottish Protestants vs Irish Catholics. Not to mention the whole Scouse not English thing in Liverpool and the hostility towards anything British or English in that city. The Irish diaspora in Britain are as disloyal if not more than people from the 3rd world are. It is absurd to think that mass immigration of people from a country who have an axe to grind against Britain due to our successful wars against them would not have a negative impact upon this country.
Racism doesn't make sense.
20% of the irish population emmigrated to Britain. They love us. Back then Ireland was so undeveloped.
Wages aren't love.
It was out of deprivation and economic desperation for the most part. Not really out of love. Mostly caused by British colonial rule.
@@Thelma7361 we cant blame colonial rule for the economy during the 60s, it was the Fianna Fail Governments fault entirely
@katiebrady7361 it had nothing to do with colonial rule lmao. Most of Europe was undeveloped, particularly Catholic countries. Don't blame others for Irelands mistake. Ireland made bad choices, which it corrected in the 80s. And there is love between Ireland and the UK. Connor Mcgregor is half English. Roy Keane spent most of his life in England. Name Irish TV show; it was likely made by the BBC or Channel 4. UK government owned companies!
Most of them became union leaders and Labour Party activists and helped to build the the country spent a small time there myself..
I was born and grew up in South London in the 50s and 60s. My parents were Scottish with a large chunk of Irish thrown in for good measure. Because I was raised RC, I went to RC schools and nearly all of my home mates and school mates were of Irish descent. Never a problem with anyone. It's funny to see the same 'problems' and bigotry from back then being resurrected nowadays, except against a different set of 'foreigners'. The more things change, the more they stay the same....
Lest we forget, the British have the most appalling history in Irish affairs. It's no exaggeration to say Ireland had 800 years of being under the thumb of this colonial power. The atrocities committed by the British in Ireland have never, ever, ever been properly addressed and acknowledged. This is shameful in the extreme. And yet, like most Irish people of my generation, most of my family took the boat and worked as navvies etc. My family has intermarried with lovely British people. What I want is a clear, UK apology for the way Britain maltreated Ireland and I'd like it acknowledged in student history books at school. I am so often gobsmacked at the British people's lack of awareness of their country's part in the complete subjugation of the Irish. We are a noble, proud, ancient people who managed to survive against all odds.
Baloney.
Ok, explain, in detail as they have their opinion why it is indeed baloney.@@paulrimmer391
@@paulrimmer391 No, the problem is that you thought that you had made an intelligent comment.
@paulrimmer391 You probably think "baloney" is an Irish slang term. Lol.
@@murphypaschal It's Gaelic for winker.
Crazy how this one industry domination lasted until the early 2000s when the Polish came.
Has to be noted, Irish didn't seek social welfare or socialhousing, just work. They paid they're own way.
A lot of Irish people got social housing, welfare and worked 😅
very true
The social welfare system then was nothing like as extensive or dare I say generous as it is now. You are right that the vast majority were young people who came to work but I know at least one family who brought their aged parents in and plugged them into the welfare system .
For the rest there are reports that one Irish TD that is MP has made a career of getting his constituents into the British health service - as patients of course.
They just steal instead
@@freebeerfordworkers A lot of Irish got very good social housing, all over London, the estates had lots of Irish people, it's only when the Asians and Africans came later that the Irish were not priority
Every country in the world should be entitled to restrict immigration if it wishes to .
I'm Irish myself and almost all of my maternal grandmothers siblings (10 of them) emigrated to the UK in the 40's and 50's.
However any country should be entitled to control the flow of people into it.
The level of emigration from Ireland over the years was shameful (from an Irish perspective) and the fact the country was run with the idea of "well you can always emigrate" being a solution to problems in Ireland rather than fixing our problems here really held the country back.The country only improved from the late 1980's onwards when people realised generation after generation of Irish people emigrating was not a good way to run the country.
50 years of theocracy did Ireland no favours.
It's still happening since 2008
The Irish are totally culturally compatible with the Brits. Whether that is by imposition of culture during colonisation or organically it is an undeniable present fact. The common travel area which exists between us is simply logical due to compatibility, proximity and obviously as a result of NI. I worked in Ireland myself as a Brit, it was a lovely time as it is for many in the opposite shoes. In a historical context I would guess questions like these were largely rooted in bitterness towards ROI winning its independence.
Irish and Brits just gel well together typically. All historical stuff aside.
'The Tavern in the Town'. 'The Mulberry Bush'
As an Irishman we can get on with the normal Brits. It's the British army, government and monarchy we have a problem with. We want our occupied 6 counties back
Of course. I've met plenty of English, Welsh, and Scots over the years and it's always instant rapoort, banter, and quite a few I became good friends with. I even had a few English girlfriends. We all have a long history together on these islands and far more in common with each other than any other countries.
@@musashidanmcgrath But did they actually like you?
The British didn't refuse the Irish during the war.
The Irish didn't even see Hitler as the enemy! Like Putin's 'Special Military Operation' the Irish press were forbidden to refer to the war by name! It had to be called 'the emergency!' 😯
Too true. But Churchill never gave any of the other nations who fought much respect, it was his England who won the war. The irony of him was he was not even a full blooded Englishman. His bankrupt family had to marry into an American family to save his syphilitic father from disgrace
Many English aristocrats at the time married American heirs because reforms in the agricultural system in the late 19th century meant their lands were worth nothing. His father's syphilis had nothing to do with it as a prime minister of day said of his grandfather he wasn't very rich for a Duke. Incidentally most historians now regard Churchill as a pretty awful man and his wartime leadership being the only redeeming feature in his political career@@brymorian
@@freebeerfordworkers As Churchill himself said, " I know history will treat me kindly, for I intend to write it" I know the American rich, who aspired to buy nobility for their daughters propped up the British aristocracy, I merely point out he was not a100 percent English man, the title of which he was so proud.
@@brymorian Nonsense dude. Churchill gave little credit to the fighting forces of any nation, except perhaps the Germans. He especially felt that the English performed worryingly badly.
If only they could see how the uk is now, swamped and swarming with imeegrants
Telll that to 'Tommy Robinson' whose parents are both Irish!
almost like its about cultural and religious difference isnt it? and im not talking about christian denominations.
Τhey didn't see it that way back in the day, as you can see in the video. @@aidy6000
Very balanced views really aren’t they? I feel people are more polarised nowadays because of social media.
As an Irishman who spent his 36-year career as an NHS doctor in England, I am grateful to the UK for providing me with well-paid work, postgraduate training and other opportunities for personal development. Unlike in the Ireland of the 1980s that I left, here you are judged solely on your merits and not on your family connections. In the UK, hard work and persistence are rewarded, although perhaps less so in recent years.
I sure bet the owners of Pubs and bottle shops weren't complaining about Irish immigration
Shame there was no debate in Britain about us letting in over 1,000,000 poles over the last 20 years.
Under the 1921 Peace Treaty free movement of people from Britain and Ireland.
If they had put a halt to Irish immigration would've actually been against the Treaty.
The immigration works both ways..
Its said in all over 6m English are actually of Irish decent imagin if they all had Irish passports, many of them should be entitled to a Irish Passport as many other Irish immigrants going back many generations around the world.
I'm from Ireland. I can't speak my national language. Nobody ever forced me to speak Polish or Arabic.
Didn't know how good we had it
YES
They had brawn and brain
You only get 90 days, I haven’t visited the EU since the U.K. left even though I voted Remain. I can’t put up with the hassle visiting the EU, I have visited places like Morocco and Langkawi in Malaysia instead which is much easier.
British citizens can stay and work in the irish Republic as long as they want because of the common travel area agreement ,, and the same for the irish in the opposite direction
@@johncampbell3182 yes this is true and Common Travel Area predates the EU, despite the problems in the past between the two countries and long may the Common Travel area continue.
the irish could be justified at being angry, not at the British government, but at our own successive failed governments
True story
Theres many problems coming Irelands way because of its goverment and its sad to see. I hope most Irish find there Christian values again either Catholic or protestant because there goning to need them in the decades to come.
Most of Ireland has been independent since 1922, we can't blame anyone for our governments but ourselves. However, the improvement in living standards since 1922 might not back up the idea that we've had a succession of failed governments. Personally. I'm glad the country became independent, but no one said it'd be easy.
Posh builders! Everyone spoke clearly a few decades ago.
Yes.
It should have been encouraged more. If we had more Irish men and women in Britain we would be in a better position
The two lads on the 29th storey working away in suits 😂
One has his boots on the wrong way around!
The building they're working on looks like Portland House. Quite ugly IMO. Also interesting to see the 405 line TV picture with visible line structure at times.
I’m always struck by the eloquence with which people speak in the past. Very clear and nuanced
its just a different way of speaking, that has been (relatively arbitrarily) elevated to be seen as eloquent. In fifty years of time people might be listening to you or anybody else speak, and say the same stuff you say
@@kinalbrien6357 hmm, I think I disagree. It seems that their vocabulary and sentence structure is better. My impression is if you asked tipsy bar goers now there’d be a lot more slang and repetition of the same words. It’s hard to compare of course with the small sample size from the past that I’ve seen. If I interviewed someone and their answer re: immigration was “ah i dunno mate, just one of them things init, gotta just do you at the end of the day”, I don’t think anyone would be calling it eloquent in 50 years!
Times have certainly changed
Have they though?
2001 - England & Wales 91% Native European
2011 - England & Wales 86% Native European
2021 - England & Wales 81% Native European
1997 - House prices on average 3.6 times annual salaries
2022 - House prices on average 9.1 times annual salaries
2002 - Recorded violent crimes 708,742
2022 - Recorded violent crimes 2,113,283
2010 NHS Waiting List - 2.2 million people
2023 NHS Waiting List - 7.5 million people
UK National Debt 2001 - £0.39 trillion
UK National Debt 2008 - £0.64 trillion
UK National Debt 2015 - £1.60 trillion
UK National Debt 2023 - £2.53 trillion
Population density England 434 per Km2
Population density France 118 per Km2
Population density USA 36 per Km2
Population density Europe 34 per Km2
I'd say they've changed, and not for the better
No they haven't 😂
@@benfisher1376They're talking about irish immigration here, nobody talks about that anymore. This was 62 years ago.
They absolutely have. @@benfisher1376
I'd say that looks pretty skilled work - when speaking about these subjects the haters claim that its low skilled work....... lets see one of them erect scaffolding or indeed administer care in a home
No one heard of the common travel area, especially the producers of the program 😂😂😂😂
I served my time as plaster with old Irish man big joe he came to uk in 60s bad tempered got till you got him on the beer great bloke 🤣🤣🤣👍👍
I can’t help thinking that life would be a lot better if we’d never gone into Europe and eased our relationship with the Republic of Ireland.
When the Irish emigrated to Britain they did so to escape the poverty which ensued following the confiscation of their lands and property by English planters,
They worked as slaves on the roads,underground and elsewhere and lived in substandard accommodation. They sent wages home to family. Drink, in some instances eased their lonely, hard lives.
Every Irish family had many relatives in this category who worked to build Britain They did not live at the expense of the English taxpayer..Unlike the illegal immigrants of today who have been released like locust all over the Western world, by globalists, the Irish worked for their bread.
Growing up in Kilburn in the 70's, I knew lot of hard working Irish people....I also personally knew Irish people who signed on the dole while working cash in hand, living in council houses provided by the English tax payer while paying no tax themselves., sending their multiple children to be be educated in London schools, and using the NHS for free. Also a time when te IRA were bombing the mainland on a weekly basis.
Yeah instead they subverrted this nation by voting in parties that now bring in those illegal immigrants whilst absolutely hating on England every chance they get.
Glad they didnt ban them ,My lovely lady came over in1961 ,only ever went back for holidays .
I wonder Is that The Queen's Arms in Kilburn and could that possibly be pints of Youngs Special being pulled?
It seems to me that most of these comments miss the point of Panorama’s question. The Republic of Ireland forfeited their membership of the commonwealth. With this in mind did they or should they have given up their right to freedom of entry to the United Kingdom. At the time of the programme Britain was seeking to limit the freedom of commonwealth citizens to enter Britain.
Actually not much changes.
It was a case of need. Britain needed a workforce. Almost 400,000 British people, mostly of working age died in WW2. Without immigration, no NHS, no public transport system, no house and roadbuilding...The M1 Motorway was largely built by Irish workers.
@@zivkovicable You miss the point. What you said is completely correct, however the question still remains. Was it fair to Commonwealth nations to limit emigration to the UK when Ireland had no stomach to keep any such links?
@@perkinscrane when this was filmed the British government was actively encouraging immigration from the Commonwealth , not restricting it..
@@zivkovicable I’m sorry to be obtuse but you are still missing the point. When the film was made there was a growing antipathy to commonwealth immigration. Panorama was posing the question whether this was fair given the ambiguous position of Irish free movement within the UK.
@@perkinscrane Do I think that antipathy towards immigrants from the colonies was wrong? Definitely. Bur your'e missing my point that Ireland is a special case.. The Commonwealth is comprised of ex colonies of the Empire, while Ireland was an integral part pf The United Kingdom of Great Britain & Ireland. Under the 1921 peace treaty, the English insisted of freedom of movement to protect the rights of the Anglo Irish, particularly their property rights, and their ability to move backwards and forwards across the Irish sea. Also the two economies were extremely integrated, so free movement made sense...Just like it does for the EU.
The British Nationality Act 1949 treats people from the Republic as UK born citizens .😊
No, it doesn't.
@@genghisthegreat2034 actually it does -try reading it -there is no limitations on Irish Republic citizen's travelling to or working and living in the UK -they even hit a vote on the Brexit referendum-no French or German etc citizen's did
Gotta love the UK.
It allowed irish citizens free access to Britian and in return British landlords such as lord Lucan were allowed to keep their estates in Ireland.
@@proudman6598 well why would a Labour Government care about Lord Lucan -it was not fine for that reason -it was done because it was impractical to stop people coming-they would simply have crossed into Northern Ireland and taken a ferry .
Not nearly comparable to the lot trying to get in now!!
Yes
Goodness me back when the only immigration of concern was over immigration from a neighbouring country of people of similar ethnicity.
Define "similar ethnicity".
@@jackdubz4247let’s see, both Caucasian, both partially Germanic in origin and both North West European. Care to bother me anymore with your pedantic ways.
Celts are not Anglo Saxon
@@MegaRbase I never said they were, I said they were a similar ethnic group
Technically speaking Indians are Caucasian
I worked on a building site in Glasgow in 1983 for a while, and 75% of the labourers were Irishmen. Virtually none of the tradesmen were, though. They were all Scotsmen.
What does that tell you.
They where entitled to have this conversation.
Ye they never should have been allowed in
❤
When Irish went to any country, they worked, they didn’t get handouts, different that coming to uk these times
plenty did not. We are not the master race
@@greglyons2526 whose we? Of course the odd dosser like yourself, an exception to every rule
IMF and World Bank 2015/2016, Ireland is considerably more wealthy (the living standards are much better) than in the UK,
We Irish did have a culture of recreational violence dating back to the "faction fights" of the 19th century. This is not mere stereotyping, this kind of behaviour lasted until the 1970s at least and is still a thing with Irish Travelers.
Everyone dressed well back then.
Even on the building sites, they dressed tidily.
And manners!
(4:05) Chances were, they wouldn't stab you or shoot you, though they may just have thumped you in an altercation.
"Gentler times"
They where told the camera's where coming so they dressed up
Deluded. Shots were carefully chosen. Listen to the presenters accent, posher than Buckingham Palace!
You'll never guess when flick knives, brass knuckles, daggers etc. became illegal to carry because of the rampant violent crime.
@@reknakfarg7252 What, they pulled their spare clothes out of the pocket of their filthy overalls, did they?