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Fall of Hyperion Discussion and Review- Thoughts on Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons
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- čas přidán 23. 05. 2022
- TreeBeard does a full deep dive discussion on the Fall of Hyperion sequel to Hyperion written by Dan Simmons. This is a spoiler filled review to full discuss the book .
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I really like the "big ideas" of this book. some of it is mindblowing considering when it was written. You are right on the money with how story lines wrap up, not very satisfying.
Kassads story is purely a symbolic one, a warrior who knows the result, but still fights no matter what, in the end he inspires an army in what seems to me the final battle. I got an impression of a legend, twisted and oversimplified, the purpose of which- to carry a simple wisdom. I only had problem with Moneta, there was no coherent explanation as to her role, to contain Shrike? how? what does she do?
Overall, it was a mindblowing experience for me, I don't agree with many of your points, but well, we don't have to, right? :)
Can it be that Kassad's personality partially exists in Shrike (was programmed when Shrike was created) and due to the fact that Kassad was in love with Moneta, she was able to control Shrike?
I was also confused by Kassads story. To me it sounded like it culminated with him suicide charging an army of 25000 shrikes & dying in battle. Its what he wanted but I'm unsure how that affected things.
Maybe he changed the future by not fighting for the shrike but instead sacrificing himself against it, but it still felt meh.
Dan, it would be fun to see you and Jonathan from @Words in Time debate the relative merits of Fall of Hyperion. If I recall correctly, Jonathan considers FoH to be superior to Hyperion (and he thinks highly of both books).
I tend to fall in between you two on the book. Like you, I think Hyperion is the better book and tells a better constructed story, but like Jonathan, I also really enjoy Fall of Hyperion and I consider it a modern classic. I have some frustration with the Kassad and Silenus character arcs, but I love the continuations and resolutions of the Lamia, Keats, Dure and Weintraub storylines.
Let me at him! 🥊🥊
oh its on!
Thanks for another well-articulated review, Dan!
Thanks, I read the two as one book back to back, worked for me!
New to the chanel. Just finished the audiobook. I agree with everything you said! The rating, the single voice actor and the general take on the story. The book finished for me when I found out about the battle of the Gods.
I am 25% of the way through Endymion and loving it- definitely recommend you try it.
Thank you Andrea. I will 100% be reading it
Hi 👋 hoping to check out this series soon! Good review video 🎬🎥 happy reading to you!! 🦋
Man I really feel like we read different books haha. Went out with a whisper?!
Rachel having the great love of Melio and then Moneta being the "great love" for Kassad is hard to get my head around. But given the span and sequence of time, I think it’s supposed to be disorienting. Ummon’s revelations were my favorite part. And the Consul was my favorite character with Gladstone coming in a close second.
I finished "Fall of Hyperion" today. Yes, it is a heavy read. I was coming and going with this book for a few years, getting sidetracked with other books along the way. At the end though, with Brawne waving goodbye with tears in her eyes and knowing that she'll never see her friends again, it really hit my emotions as I thought of all the farewells I've had in my life, and other proper farewells I wish I'd had... including my own mother who died just a few weeks after I moved my family to Japan 12 years ago.
I really want to love this series. The first book was great. I was fully vested in Rachel’s story as I listened (audiobook). The second book ended up being background noise for most of the story. I just wanted to know how it ended and what happened to Rachel.
I don’t really understand how her dad is supposed to raise her again. If he was 25ish when she was born, he was 51 when she started aging backwards and 77 when she was given to the Shrike. If he raises her again he will be over 100. Maybe he will be able to live longer like people in the Old Testament, but they didn’t really explain it. I needed more.
I misunderstood you, and you just crushed my anticipation of reading the Omnibus...I thought you meant you were going to have spoilers for the first half/Hyperion and then I kept listening and was like crap! Then I read the 'Triggered' guy with the last statement (God of Chaos Khorne), who ranted away at Dan Simmons writing and the freaking dude can't even put a sentence together and he was giving spoilers. I unsubscribed. I like your other reviews...but I decided not to let that other Dude affect me, so I re-subscribed again. Anyway, I guess after I got out of the Military my nerves and patience has gotten worse. Keep on keeping on.
I finished this book recently for the first time as well. I think the problems with the book mostly stem with the fact that the first parts of the book follow a new character which we don’t have connection with and that there is a lot of it that stems with Dan Simmons love with John Keats which if you don’t love the poet as well you really don’t connect that much with the book.
The creativity around tough concepts like time travel, AI, transport, web meetings were truly mind blowing especially considering when it was written. The big mystery which was hyped and the way it was revealed was very underwhelming. The last act just fell flat in my opinion.
Kassad and Gladstone were the stand out characters/chapters for me.
The fabled warrior who traveled through time fighting the shrike and lead the charge in the defining battle for the future of humanity in
the war which would allow human kind to help shape its own past/future.
For me nothing will eclipse Sols story on the pilgrimage trail so far the best moment of the cantos
Looking forward to reading Endymion
Fedmahn Kassad was there for the Israeli / Palestinian allegory. His name is made up, but Fedmahn sounds German or Jewish/Jiddish ancestry (Fedmahn) while Kassad sounds Arabic (Kasim/Assad etc are real names)
In the end he's largely pointless in book 2 and is turned into a martyr, the point for him is to die, self sacrifice and inspire future generations from his crystal Tomb.
His lover is a Jewish woman (Moneta aka Rachel Weintraub).
Only notice how Kassad never ever mentions religion, while Simmons focuses a lot on religious themes. I think he at one point implies he is Muslim. Or at the very least days something like "I don't believe the God of Islam would be pleased with such violence" talking about one of the many "nuclear Jihad's" that simmons mentions or something (been a while with the first book)
At the end of book 2, he recounts how all planets are going to.be fine. But when it comes to.Muslim planets its all Nuclear Jihad, Shiite Islamic Revolutions (combined with the massacre of all Sunnis on new Ryad)
Sorry to tell you but it's just that one guy for the last two books on audible. I don't think he's a bad narrator, but I agree it was cool when each pov char had their own narrator voice. To me, Martin Salinas was an especially memorable narration
That's weird. I only got the one narrator for book one and two on audible.
I just finished this book. I was disappointed there wasn't multiple voices like in the first book. That made things much easier to keep track of. But honestly, I was personally satisfied by the ending of this book. The characters I cared about had their stories wrapped up for the most part. I disliked the constant switch between perspectives though. The first book was much easier to follow, because everyone told their stories one at a time. Here, we are cutting between a bunch of chaotic things happening at once. Especially in this second half, I found myself rewinding and listening to another revelation that happened. Anyways, I appreciate your review.
Awesome review Dan! Sorry you didn’t enjoy this one as much. You bring up some valid points, especially the stark contrast between Monetta’s more sexual arc and Rachel’s more scholarly one. I can understand the frustration with it.
The voice actor who did Brawne Lamia was terrible she sounded bored to tears with no emotion whatsoever utterly one-dimensional. I was glad that the second audiobook was one actor.
By the end of the second book. I hated the Hyperion Cantos. I hated Dan Simmons and his prose/writing style, I intensely islike him as a person.
Someone claims they liked the big ideas. To me they the dumbest things and super pretentious most of the time. Like the void that binds is love. Or God didn't want to test Abraham, Abraham wanted to test God etc. LoL
He ends both hyperion books with the cast singing a song and walking off into the sunset. LoL... somewhere over the rainbow.. the f
Simmons can Lapis Lazuli himself. Legit I thought the first book was decent. I had my issues with some of the concepts, I hated Simmons' writing style but it was ok. The second book had some very good twists and turns relating to the first. But it also just dragged on and on, was rven more pretentious, put you a few steps from the original cast, and had the worst, dumbest ending.
Still not explained why Rachel Weintraub has to be Moneta, seems to be just so Kassad can have a bonercrush on her. They talk for like 90 seconds combined throughout the books, its the dumbest relationship ever. Also at one point she doesn't recognize him and says "hes the one that thr shrike promised her". but then later they meet again.. which means she would have already known him.before that.
Why is Rachel guarding the shrike? At one point she suggests he showed her something and she's helping him to avert it. But then it turns out she's a future army dude bro lady that is supposed to fight the shtike. None of any of that makes sense. And no way I'm reading more ofnhosncrappy writing to find out the details if they even exist (doubt it, this guy made his big answer LOVE)
Listening to audiobooks is not remotely the same as reading. I'm done with you...