A Level Crossing Near Miss
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- My viewer realised the mistake they made and described it as a wake up moment. Would this have caught you out?
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#driving #tesla #education
This was me 😞
If anyone learns from my mistake then I'm happy.
There is no sounder audible on the camera clip, and I've never heard a sounder here
I'd think Ashley has the audio muted as I was listening to the radio (greatest hits ... I think it was a Barbara Streisland track...) and YT would do copyright infringment.
Other than the song, I was I think talking to myself having realising how stupid I'd been.
This is the Norwich / London main line, about 4 miles south of Norwich (Swainsthorpe) with 2 up and 2 down trains per hour usually (@ 6m out, 15m in, 36m out and 45m in, past the hour each hour and a long slow commercial wagon train at about 7pm each day)
And yes I'm hard of hearing due to driving tractors in the 1970's and 1980's without ear protection.
My mistake was following the rider onto the crossing and assuming they would exit. You can see me stop when they do, and then creep forward again when they cross to the opposite carriageway , and then I stop again when the return back to my carriageway, by which time the barriers are starting to move (I'm beyond the lights by this point so can't see them and only had the barriers to notify me).
I reverse back until the barriers hit my car (Saab 9-3), and I assess that there is enough space for the train to pass, otherwise I would have reversed further breaking the barriers. I had half expected them to rise and attempt to lower again like others I've seen, but these don't.
Big thank you for sharing your scary experience! I hope that at least one person learns from it! :)
IIRC, AHB crossings like that typically have alarms, but I suspect you couldn't hear it due to just how well insulated modern cars are. The alarms are typically meant for pedestrians anyways.
Honestly, I've always kinda found it a bit weird how the UK doesn't typically use extra lights on the rear of their crossing signals...
Thanks for sending this in. My heart was pounding whilst watching the train pass the car. That looked like millimetre space in between.
If you've got a small car like a mini then the purchase has already paid for itself ...
Think my worst crossing experience was having to open and shut the gates myself.
My delivery was some railway cottages in a sharp right turn over the other side, and i couldn't make the turn in one . The back of the van was still on the crossing, and the warning sounded for an approaching train.
puckered that day.
Thanks for the video.👍
Did you get a ticket from the crossing camera? forgot to ask.
Train Driver here. Horse riders MUST NEVER cross a railway, even one like this, without telephoning the signaller first. There is a phone provided at the crossing for this purpose and there will be associated signage. The signaller will grant a 'line blockage' by protecting the level crossing with red signals until he has assurance from the horse rider that they are safely across (using the telephone on the other side). This horse rider, assuming the signage is all in place, would be liable to prosecution for not following the crossing rules.
I'm not sure I've ever seen signs for horse riders must call signaller for automatic crossings, just the standard long and slow viechles (and height for overhead lines). Most of the contact signaller signs are on user worked crossings.
Is it not the case that horse riders should always dismount at level crossings...?
Very concisely explained.
I honestly have never seen these signs for horses. Seen plenty for vehicles over X length.
Is this a commonly known rule that all riders should know?
I'd've thought the signaller would've told them to wait for the second train anyway as they'd know it was coming.
I also think the horse riders could've done more to help the motorist in peril - sure he messed up but he was in very real danger.
I sympathise with the train driver too - that's one thing that's really frightening is there's nothing they can do!
Driving mistakes aside. I'd urge the cammer to send this to Network Rail and raise a concern. There's no way those barriers should have gone up when a second train was approaching so soon after. The train detection sensors are far too close to the crossing. What if the horses got spooked half way over and it was them and the riders that were trapped?
Edit: After watching a second time I count pretty much exactly 30 seconds between the barriers going up and coming back down. Keep in mind that there is at least a five second warning before the barriers come down, which brings our time down to just 25 seconds. Also note the dog walker to the right that barely had enough time to cross on foot. What if that were a wheelchair user or someone on crutches?
I hope they've done tests.
I wonder if leaving the barriers down(or having them come down too early) would tempt some pedestrians to think 'oh I'll just nip across before the next one,,,'
I regularly use a crossing which opens, then closes again after three cars have passed.
I agree. I've experienced this situation and normally the barriers would stay down for sure. Definitely seems a bit weird. Also note how there is a cars worth of space inside the barriers... Good design
@@syrus3k The reason the barriers went up then down soon after was because its an automated crossing and not controlled by a signalling centre but by censors on the track
Not long time ago in Hampshire the barrier was up and i was just crossing when a train come, lucky was a maintenance train and was really slow.....
Network Rail produced a guide for riders using level crossings. It includes the following: "Most importantly, the guide reminds horse riders of the need to dismount at a level crossing and to be mindful of how their horse might react to the alarms, lights and other noises that might be present."
Like other road users and the Highway Code very few horse riders will have read that document let alone taken on board what it says.
Maybe there should be signage for that
@@michaelgurd7477 yes I didn't know such guide existed
@@andrewholdaway813 signage would definitely be useful here
Good advice. With some horses that might not be best, but in the great majority of cases it would be.
First off, well done to the cammer for allowing us to see that. A nightmare situation and a momentous, possibly life-saving lesson. Horses and trains are significant on their own, but put them together on a level crossing and that escalated very quickly. I'm sure the lesson was well learned, heart-stopping as it must have been.
100% agree 👏
I’m very glad to read the comments from people aware of the rules for crossing a railway from the rail point of view. Granted, in Ashley’s comments, the cammer could’ve stayed back the entire time, but the horse riders seemed not to be following the rules of the rail.
The complete and utter lack of awareness from these riders on a level crossing was honestly shocking.
Yes. Had to rely on some random car driver to sort the situation out.
Yes quite shocking. They caused the whole situation and seemed oblivious to the predicament of the poor cammer. They didn't even give him a wave of acknowledgement afterwards. Riding your horse so close to a fast moving train is very irresponsible.
Agreed. Utterly piss poor attitude
The permanent smile on their faces says it all
This is how you know they know what they did wrong. When they avoid eye contact and avoid apologizing. They don't know you and they don't want to talk to you about it.
Having people make mistakes is one thing but when you're the one having to pay for them, that's when I get mad.i would've blown passed them after the barrier came down. Don't care if they get bucked off the horse. I'm not getting squashed by a train.
Gosh that's a pretty scary situation. Definitely a good lesson to learn
i must admit this is probably the most scariest footage i have seen from this channel, massive respect to the person who shared this so we can all learn a valuable lesson. 👍
I would have reversed into the barriers honestly
I would have thought there was a fundamental problem with the level crossing system Surely the barriers should have remained down when there was little time between trains.
That surprised me too - why was the barrier not just down for longer if there were 2 trains in quick succession?
In Germany that would be the case. I wa surprised also to see that.
They were open for about 30 seconds. If you want the barriers to remain down for an extra 30 seconds, they'll be open for 30 seconds again when the trains cross half a minute longer apart.
I would have thought so to.
Looks like an automated crossing based upon sensors on the rail network unfortunately (in my understanding)
EDIT: My “understanding” has been explained much better than what I could’ve done by much more educated people on these things in posts below 👇
Agree they should be down longer and a crossing near me that is a manned crossing does stay down longer. Sometimes 7 minutes longer when they are shunting freight trains in between passenger trains. The automated one on the next road up goes up and down more times than a yoyo
A very easy mistake to make, and very responsible for them to share.
Having worked on the railway and been exposed to the aftermath of incidents, I would always advise reversing through the barrier.
It's going to cause a major headache and disruption, but nobody will be hurt or killed.
Thank you and your viewer for sharing.
I have a huge respect for them sending you this.
I wouldn’t hesitate to break the barrier. Damaged barrier and car vs destroyed car, derailed train, death etc. no brainer
it is good it is possible nowadays to do that. Older barriers not so easy.
The old logic is to create a physical barrier to prevent crossing. Problem is you are stuck.
I don't know how it is in the UK, but here in the Netherlands a lot of these barriers are just soft plastic. They'll snap even if a bicyclist were to hit them, so while they'll very much scrape up your car they won't even damage the body underneath the paint.
It's difficult to make that call in the moment, but even if that barrier were to somehow pop your rear window, it's still better than a train destroying your car and causing an accident with lots of people hurt and millions worth of damage.
@paulthomas8262 it entirely depends on the barrier, its the ones that have the slats below them (to prevent ducking under) that are difficult to move, but IIRC they are only on crossings with full barriers both sides.
These barriers are likely fairly flimsy plastic and a car should have no trouble at least pushing it enough to get the nose end safe.
A smashed back window and paint scratches are nothing compared to a written off car and train, let alone the accompanying manslaughter case when people on board the train are killed.
The barriers are not there to physically "stop" you, just tell you to stop.
@@leetori1 and in one of those outcomes, literally no brainer
On Swedish level crossing, on the inside of a barrier is the message written "don't stop on the track, continue driving and break the barrier" it was added after a few high profile accidents and apparently it help with the quick thinking.
Yeah if there's a sign saying what to do it definitely assists with quick thinking!
@@kiradotee Some people might go to not wanting to do property damage, have to pay for a replacement barrier. If it says on the barrier, 'don't stop, drive through this' they might realise it's actually designed to fail in an emergency and not like driving into a horizontal lamp post, and that preserving life is the immediate concern. 10 or so seconds of additional thinking saved by that sentence would be the difference in a longer vehicle here being hit by the train and not.
@@markwright3161 pretty much what I said but I appreciate the longer version 😂
@@kiradotee I thought you were being sarcastic with the '!' .
In Britain the train would stop if a crossing with full barriers is obstructed.
To be honest I don't think I'd done much better simply because I would not have expected the barriers to open and close again that quickly ie under 40 seconds between opening and closing again. May be if I were familiar with that crossing but otherwise not.
Now I know better so: Thank you to whoever sent it in!
There are essentially two types of barriers rail crossings in the UK; Full barrier (ie one that closes the road entirely) and automatic half barrier (AHB). Full barriers are CCTV monitored by a signalling centre and a trains are not signalled across until it is seen to be clear. The crossing in this video is an AHB and as the name states is fully automatic & not monitored by human eye. They are operated by approaching trains - very often at speed. The lowering times on these are always very quick and the half barrier is designed for a means of escape in an emergency.
@@timf5924 You know something odd?
After driving here since I passed my test in '92 I can't remember having crossed s single rail crossing.
@@gustavmeyrink_2.0 IIRC, while the UK has over 6,000 grade crossings nationwide, only a little over 1,000 are on public highways. Most are small little pedestrian crossings or user-worked farm crossings, IIRC.
@@timf5924 This explains why all the crossings I've been on you wait 5+ mins before any train actually crosses.
Level crossing barriers are designed to break off easily, if you're trapped on a crossing just drive into them and they'll move. You car might be a bit scratched but that's far better than being hit by a train. In this case reversing into the barrier would be the best course of action.
And all that needs to be done to fix the crossing is to replace the barrier, the mechanism won't be damaged so it's a relatively cheap fix
They should have it written on them in mirrored print… IF TRAPPED REVERSE THROUGH BARRIER!
@@stuartmcconnachie actually a good point if mistakes happen.
@@stuartmcconnachie that implies people use their mirrors!
Joking aside, it wouldn’t take a lot to put that on the barrier and could potentially save lives
@@smilerbobyou put it on the opposite barrier surely
@@adampoultney8737 But that's on the other side of the road and further away :(
As a former rider you have to wonder why the riders did not dismount an lead their horses, you have so much more control that way and reduce risk for all. Often a horse will follow another horse though an area they miss trust ( i guess the riders were attempting this ploy here ) or even a person simply walking in front of them. I was never keen on riding on or near roads, horses are too flighty.
As someone who knows nothing about horses, there's the level crossing video that seems to suggest you should ride horses across for more control of them (unless there are overhead wires)...
Mind you, seeing it's a half barrier crossing, wouldn't they need to have phoned before they crossed?
Responsible people wouldn’t unnecessarily take magnificent but vulnerable animals into a dangerous situation (on the road with stupid drivers).
@@HumansAreShitFactories
I hate break this to you but _horses_ are pretty stupid
@@andrewholdaway813 No shit Sherlock. Have you ever auditioned for master mind? Don’t. I think it’s obvious horses aren’t proficient in applying the rules of the Highway Code, but your stupid comment that I can only assume is a poor attempt at humour completely missed the point. Horses don’t have a choice and are taken on the road and put in harms way by stupid humans, unnecessarily, then end up distressed, maimed, and dead. Anyway, people do say animals are stupid, because in their own tiny little minds it justifies their poor treatment.
With the best will in the world, if the rider wasn't able to safely contol their horse on a level crossing, they should pick picked a more appropriate route. Doesn't take much imagination to picture the horses messing about on the crossing rather than just off it
many decades ago when I started driving, I was on a level-crossing when a 7.5t came toward me taking up part of my side. I moved over to be safe from a side scrape and slipped onto the tracks with an almighty bang. Luckily for me, there were workmen and the crossing keeper. They were very kind in helping me get the car from the tracks. From that day on, I made sure I had the space to move regardless of what was happening around me or coming toward me. My first and last incident involving myself. Holding back has saved others from incidents. Be Humble, Promote Happiness
ASHLEY ! I've only riden a few times! BUT was told "riders should dismount and lead the horse " as Network Rail safety guide !
In an ideal world.
But actually got far more control whilst mounted. The rider has a leg on each side so can control movement to both sides, and seat should control forward movement.
Dismounted you are just a single point, if the horse wants to go you can't hold onto 500kg+
A loose horse on the line will cause as much damage to the train as hitting a car due to the height.
Everyone in this clip did a good job a.l things considered.
@@johnspear3452 The riders did a terrible job, they should of dismounted for a start and its seems they didnt use the phone at the crossing either, one rider decides to stop her horse just off the track and do a u turn then stay blocking the road, complete shambles from the pair!
@@johnspear3452Since the line is electrified with the 25kv AC 50hz OLE system the rider should have dismounted becuase of the chance of electric leaving the wires then going to the rail via the horse and person on top of it.
Thank you for salutary warning! The problem emerges when the first rider unexpectedly changes their mind about intended direction without considering other road users. Then blocks the road because essentially neither rider seems to have complete control of their animals. I’m surprised that a rider would bring a horse up so close to a railway crossing, especially one with only half barriers. Surely the sensible thing would be to dismount and take a firm grip of the bridle? Secondly there is only about one minute elapsed between the two trains so opening the barriers for such a short time is not appropriate. In another scenario, what if both horses were oncoming, the exit path was clear when the barriers opened and then a horse backs across in the car’s path?
Horse riders are advised to walk their horse through crossings.
This is an Automatic Half Barrier crossing, by design it would give about 27 seconds warning of an approaching train, and the barriers only need to be raised for 10 seconds before it can activate for a second train
In this case the second train was far enough away for the crossing to raise between trains
Based on what I know, the horse rider was NOT using the crossing correctly, I believe they were supposed to phone the signaller before crossing (an AHB crossing near me has signs on approach saying that those in charge of animals MUST PHONE before crossing, I can’t tell from this video if this crossing had these signs on approach, but it should have them)
Screw the barrier, I'd be reversing out of there! I'm surprised your viewer didn't hear the siren sounding before the barriers started to lower though. There's ample time to move back before you become trapped. Strange that the audio was muted on the clip, as I suspect they knew you'd absolutely rinse them if they left it in.
Exactly what I was thinking, there's always an audible alarm before barriers start to lower. The best option upon hearing the sirens sound would have been to either throw it in reverse and move back before the barrier lowered or just gun it forward and get out of the way.
Easy to say in hindsight and from my arm chair I know.
it's always possible that the dashcammer is deaf. Also it's one of those situations 10 times easier to navigate in hindsight. Probably frozen in fear.
Maybe there was traffic close behind?
@@thomascarroll9556 I had the same thought but there was a rear camera view where it shows there were no cars behind
@@thomascarroll9556 half the video is the rear view. wtf
This video is *immensely helpful* for someone in the U.S.A., prior to visiting the UK. As I live in the suburbs, we just don't encounter horses on the roads.
Christ almighty, what a terrifying moment.
Props to the viewer for sharing this! This is a lesson you'd rather learn from watching than from experience!
I would've 100% quickly driven across when I realised those barriers were coming down around me, my care for the horses goes straight out the window in this situation. Though I doubt I would've entered the crossing until I was able to clear it, similar to a yellow box junction.
I think the horses is what's making this extra difficult. If there was no horses and the barriers started to lower I would 100% assess the opportunity and quickly drive over.
But horses are unpredictable and is also probably why the cammer didn't commit to something like that.
Danger then is that the horse bolts in front of the train.
one of those things though, if for any reason you stall or the car has some kind of trouble you've gone from being close to danger to blocking an oncoming train, potentially killing not only yourself but people on the train
Reversing into the barrier is a better option, under the sort of pressure of the barriers coming down is the type of moment even experienced drivers stall, if you're going to potentially lurch & stop doing so away from the train track is 100% the better choice to make.
To be honest if it was me I would have just floored it the moment those barriers started to come down. To hell with the horses. But after watching this. I will make sure that the exit is clear before entering the level crossing. Living in London though I'd probably have someone shouting abuse of laying on the horn behind to contend with
Your safety is important - so get across asap.
Much better than you dying plus people dying from train derailment.
I'd have floored it as well. Think of the people on the train.
Thanks to the contributor for sharing this clip. I can imagine it was a very nerve wrecking situation and I'm thankful they got out of it unscathed.
It really shows how aware we should be around others, but also maintain focus on everything around us.
gimp
I was surprised at how quick the train came. The crossing we [used] to have near me was a good four or five minute wait. You could be stuck for 30 minutes which is why the build a tunnel. I think.
It’s an automatic crossing. There are what as known as treadles in the track that set off the lights/barriers going down. The horse riders should be using the telephone that’s provided to get permission to cross.
Literally the dangers of horsing around on a level crossing.
Phew, that's frightening! It reminded me of the signs you see on French railway crossings: 'un train peut en cacher un autre' (literally, one train can hide another). It's worth remembering that, especially on busy lines. Thanks Ashley.
Many thanks for the driver sujpplying this great learning point, and to you Ashley for sharing it. I cannot swear that I would have done any better. I drive in the UK on occaision, and here in Germany the barriers would not have raised. I likely would have done the same. On the other hand. I do take a good gander both ways down the line at grade crossings, even if the barriers are up. Schtuffs occur.
Yes - I've never come across horses at a level crossing but they obviously do introduce additional risk, so this is a useful reminder of their unpredictability. I'm always very wary of level crossings so I never enter one until I can see the exit is clear but I also always make sure I cross with enough momentum that if the engine failed, I could coast across to the other side anyway.
Wow. This was scarier than many footage of actual collisions. Those horses side stepping also made me very, very nervous. I would not have thought that the barriers would rise like that and immediately go back down again!
Just shows you how quick something can go wrong, even when you're trying to do the right thing.
Ashley im.a former MOM just retired with 30 years service. Horses like this are a living nightmare on crossings.
The best advice is to wait till their clear as alot of riders are frankly clueless. The driver is absolutely correct ring the signalman and tell them and ring when clear.
A great video, many thanks to the cammer for sharing this really important lesson. The section between the barriers should be treated as an ultra yellow box - i.e. don’t enter it unless it really is clear.
I see these kinds of situations every day as I operate a level crossing on a busy road. You must never cross the white line until you are certain you can clear the other side of the crossing. So many people ignore this and end up in the middle of the crossing when the barriers are about to go down. Only difference is, the one I operate, I can hold off for a few seconds before I start the sequence but that Normally doesn't stop the next car from continuing on. Considering how much danger speeding trains pose, it's amazing how many people treat level crossings with less respect than a normal traffic light controlled junction. I see some crazy stuff every day.
Do you know if the riders should of used the phone and what difference it would of made, and weather or not to dismount?
I don't have too many level crossings near me and I'm honestly surprised how short the time is from the barriers going down to the train passing. Good learning point 👍
For AHBCs (Automatic Half Barrier Crossings), it's usually a matter of seconds. For manullay operated barriers it is often longer, as the crossing has to be closed before the signalman can clear the protecting signal.
Looks to me like the bell goes at 59 seconds, you can see the lady leading the pony react and stop going forward at that point and also the rider on white horse turns around. I think at that point I would have driven forward, even if not down the road there is space to the left in front of gate.
It seems to be just 30 seconds from then to train passing which really doesn't seem a lot.
I also think the riders could be somewhat at fault, would they not be better dismounting and leading horses across the crossing rather than riding them across, I would think they would have more control then, but admit I don't know a whole lot about horses, just seems like a more sensible approach.
The level crossing here is one of many different types on the rail network. This type is called an Automatic Half Barrier Crossing (AHBC). As other people have pointed out this type of crossing is operated automatically by approaching trains. When a train approaches and passes what is called the strike point the crossing light sequence will begin with the amber light. From that moment a train travelling at the maximum permitted speed for the section of line will reach the crossing in 27 seconds so the crossing in the video appears to be functioning correctly in that respect.
There are hundreds of these crossings across the country. Although the controlling signaller will have an indicator to show the crossing is operating correctly there is no equipment to actually show that the crossing is clear of road traffic when the barriers descend. This is why the barriers only cover the left hand side of the road on approach, so there is an open escape route on the far side for emergencies.
Additional equipment is provided at these crossings so that if a second train approaches soon after the first, the barriers will remain down until the second train passes. This is to stop the situation arising where a second train will be passing the strike point whilst the barriers are still rising after the first. In the case in this video the second train will have been outside the area covered by this additional equipment when the barriers went up.
I'm a train driver not an infrastructure technician so I don't know what sort of timings apply to this additional equipment but I suspect the crossing here is operating correctly as designed. The driver of the second train will almost certainly have reported a near miss with a road vehicle and the crossing will have been checked for correct operation as a result. If anything was found to be faulty mitigating measures should have been put in place until it could be fixed.
Other types of crossings that poeple have mentioned where the barriers stay down for longer are typically those that are operated by the signaller. These have full width barriers and a means for the signaller to check that the crossing is clear before signalling a train to pass over it. They are generally used on high speed lines (100mph+), busy roads or roads with junctions close to the crossing where traffic might queue across it despite the instructions in the highway code. They tend to cause much longer hold ups for road traffic.
To add on the comment about the second train, minimum time should be 10 seconds being open to road traffic (source: ORR's "Level crossings: a guide for managers, designers and operators") and it appears as if that was met here.
I recall they used to have 2 sets of strike in treadles on each approach to an automatic crossing. The outer sets A and D were 37 seconds from the crossing and the inner sets B and E were 27 seconds from the crossing. Both of these were pairs of treadles i.e. one on each rail. The strike out treadles C and F were single treadles only on the exit side of the crossing. A track circuit was provided between the inner treadle and the crossing. The first train activated the crossing at the inner treadles and the barriers lowered. If another train was approaching in the opposite direction before the first train arrived at the crossing, passing over the outer treadle would keep the crossing activated, and also activate an "Another Train Coming" neon sign. If the barriers had started to rise when the second train struck in, the lights would continue to show and the barriers would lower again as there was less than 10 seconds of open time. If the barriers were fully raised when the second train struck in, it would activate the crossing at the inner treadles as there would be 10 seconds of open time. The strike in treadles were pairs so both wheels would activate the circuit for fail-safe working, and they also timed the 10 seconds of open time being 10 seconds apart at line speed.
I seem to recall when this area was resignalled that treadles were not provided and a single strike in was provided by a track circuit 37 seconds at line speed (100mph) from the crossing. The 27 second strike in was provided by a 10 second delay timer relay. Treadles were restored to the 37 second strike in point when the lightweight second generation Sprinter trains failed to operate the track circuits correctly.
This clearly shows why you should always wait for the barriers to be fully raised and the lights extinguished before you start to cross after a train. You just don't know if a train is closely approaching in the opposite direction and the barriers will immediately lower again without the normal sequence of operation.
@@Snapdragon4472crossings nowadays don’t have visual second train coming warnings, the second train coming warning, where provided, would be audible only (depending on the crossing, it could be a sped up alarm tone, or a combination of a sped up alarm tone and a voice warning)
I'd have also been pretty pissed off with the way they were buggering about . If the cam car had been stuck on the lines they would have been to blame
This has been one of the most unusual and interesting hazards I've seen both on yt and in general. I can safely say I've not seen an incident like this with my own eyes. This goes to show that even the most careful and we'll meaning drivers can and do make mistakes.
It's easy for us to say what they should have done but hindsight is always 20/20. Thankfully no one was hurt and the driver did a fantastic job of giving the horse and rider plenty of space!
Said rider also did an amazing job of keeping the horse calm. I'd imagine a train is terrifying to a horse, especially at the speeds they can pass at on a crossing.
The horse rider should inform the crossing operator via the telephone provided before and after they cross. This also applies to herds of livestock.
Should also have made an appointment 2 weeks prior.
There is no requirement to ask for permission to cross with a horse
Not a great situation, but I have to say that the horse riders could have done more to ease the situation.
They must have known that their horses were nervous, so why not get them clear of the crossing, calm them, and then cross, ideally when the crossing was going to be clear for more than enough time?
I’d assume that as they are out riding, they wouldn’t have time constraints, so could afford to take a while and potentially cause less inconvenience.
Just my thoughts 👍🏻
Given that these barriers went up and back down again in under a minute, how would they know the crossing was going to be clear for "more than enough time"? Given how unpredictable horses can be, I think I'd have stayed well back until they'd sorted themselves out.
@@davidjones332 - I will assume that this is not a main line, so not going to be a majorly busy stretch of track. Also fair to assume that the riders are local, so would be well aware of what to expect at this particular crossing.
Don’t get me wrong - I don’t have a downer on horse riders, living in rural East Sussex we have our fair share and some, but I feel that they could have dealt with this slightly better than they did. It’s an opinion that’s all 🤷🏼♂️
@@kevincross9206 That's a double track electrified line. It looks to be the Norwich-London main line. I live in a rural area, and agree, those riders should have done a much better job of it. Clearly the horse was spooked, so I don't think should've crossed until it had been calmed down, even if it means holding up traffic.
@@EE12CSVT It is, specifically this is the level crossing on Church Road, Swainsthorpe. Still for a main line this seems to be a low traffic one as Norwich only has 2 tph to London and presumably the same in the other direction. Looks like those would be the only ones using it as the other services to the South would be using the West Anglia Main Line to the west (Cambridge, London Stanstead), and the other destinations are on the coast to the North and East. All of those will have split off prior to reaching this crossing the junctions for those are close to the station still in the outskirts of Norwich itself, this crossing is in a village some miles south of that (Swainsthorpe).
Other peoples mistakes, make us all safer if they are shared!
I am pleased your viewer was brave enough to share this video
Hindsight ..a wonderful thing. Can’t help thinking that the visible horse rider was aware of the other horse and it’s rider and the potential for an issue if the car driver proceeded. All the cars needed to stay put until the horses had cleared the crossing. Easy for me to say! After the event. Hopefully a valuable lesson for motorists and horse riders sharing a rail crossing. Good no one (and horses) hurt or worse.
That was one scary clip, well done to your viewer for sharing that with us, I'm sure they will never do that again.
I’m not sure if it’s the same everywhere in Scotland, but in the nearest town where I live that has a barrier, if there’s another train coming so soon after that last one had come through, the barriers would not have lifted. Sometimes you can sit there for what like seems ages, but the simple fact is that if two trains are in close proximity to the level crossing then the barriers stay down for the entire time.
That would be because the second train didn’t quite reach the “strike in” point to trigger the “Another train coming” sequence. The barriers to note also by design have a MROT (Minimum Road Opening Time) of 10 seconds. It was literally on the limit here.
Jesus, my heart was beating out my chest and I wasn't even in the car! I'm glad the cammer is safe, but clearly something was off with the signalling. That barrier should have remained down I think but I think 30 seconds was the threshold...I guess in normal circumstances traffic would have cleared by that time.
From the beginning of the clip the horse was being very twitchy. Just stay well back and let them do their thing. Very lucky escape by your viewer there.
That's why in the US we have signs that say "No parking on tracks" to stop people from stopping on them.
The rider didn't get out of the way, they disided to join there friend on the other side which seemed to make the other horse twitchy insted of walking away.
aye, rider should have cleared the junction and road, tethered the horse safely further ahead then walked back to give assistance to the other rider (but note sometimes horses are more controllable if in pairs with one leading another so that may not be best course of action
@@highpath4776 Agreed would be safer to time the ride so not to encounter the trains at all, it's not fair on the horses, I live semi rural quite a few horses but no trains.
Just watched this now and that was heart wrenching. Kudos to the cammer for sending this in. Although I've never been in such a situation at a level crossing, I have to admit to making a similar error of judgement when leaving a regular intersection clear, whereby I started to move forward again when I THOUGHT the traffic on the far side was moving enough for me to start an early follow through. And yes, "perceived pressure from behind" was a factor, as well as a worry that someone in the next lane might steal my space if I didn't take it early. So this video is also a good reminder at regular intersections (be they yellow box or not) to only move forward when you can actually see for sure there is sufficient space to clear.
Greetings from Vancouver btw, having spent the last 7 days in the USA and crossed the border back into Canada late last night. No wait time at all at the border and fortunately no snow on my journey either, though other areas of Vancouver as well as Washington State were hit. However, major snow is forecast for metro Vancouver this weekend.
Thanks to the viewer for sending in, but honestly, this was such a silly error. Hope lessons were learned.
What i dont get is why the white horse had to complicate the situation and go back across to try and get the other horse, as soon as it Crossed she just turned round to come back. Which caused the car to become stuck. I think has to take some of the blaim for that, if you can not control your animal, just like if you can not control your dog, you should not be off a lead...
You can’t 100% train a horse because if he doesn’t want to do something he wont, also the only way to train a horse to ride outside is to ride outside, these seem like pretty small roads
The white horse was more confident at going across the level crossing where as the brown horse had refused. The rider of the white horse had gone back to accompany the the brown horse as the brown horse will be more lightly to go across with a horse that is more convenient. The riders were actually doing well at handling a difficult situation. Unfortunately the situation was further escalated by impatience.
@@Broadcast1Channel i think if that was me i would have held up my hand or made some indication, that that was the plan to the car behind, as he had no idea she was just going to do a 3 point, you can say he was impatiant, but he had no idea, the two where together and that ,she was going to do a u turn. Hand signals of some sort would have helped a lot there.
@TCJones Unfortunately in a situation like that the rider is not going to let go of one of the reins as these form part of the way they communicate to the horse with small gestures enacted on them. Loosing contact by releasing one of the reins in that situation may result in horse not following what you are asking of it.
@@Broadcast1Channel You seem to have some experience with horses, which a lot of us commenting do not. Surely the dark coloured horse, or perhaps the rider wasn't at the required level of training to cross here, if it took her, another horse, another horse rider, and then eventually a motorist, to guide them across safely?
Rider here. One horse should NEVER cross the line leaving the other behind unless they are bulletproof in this situation. Even then there is no reason not to play safe. Horses are herd animals and by nature want to stay together, which will be a much stronger instinct if they are not well trained or the rider is inexperienced or nervous. Also see the comment below: horseriders/handlers need to telephone the signaller before crossing.
Another point - if the driver wasnt sure about the front of the bonnet being clear of the track, that type of crossing (an AHBC or automatic half barrier) doesnt have a barrier opposite for this exact reason, if behind is blocked you can clear ahead. As soon as those barriers started coming down moving across and out the other side should have been a consideration.
Another point i should make is that these types of crossings are not usually monitored by a human, so there is probably no CCTV for an operator to see you and stop any approaching trains. Got to sort it yourself.
Except if the driver decides to go forwards, especially in a panicked manner, it's likely to spook the horse.
@@misterflibble9799 yea thats why i said if driver wasnt sure if the car was clear. Better to spook a horse than allow a train to hit a car(Ufton nervet disaster was a very similar crossing)
Personally I would have waited until the horses were gone, but I can understand why, in all the confusion, your viewer took his chances. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Yep - concentrating on the horses so much, all other observations deplete somewhat - completely understandable
Had this been years ago when there were manned crossings, this scenario would never have happened because the crossing keeper would not have opened the gates until after the second train had crossed the crossing
The driver did make a mistake, but the fault ultimately lies with the horse riders. Had that been a cyclist, motorbike, car, etc., there would not have been a problem.
Wow, what a scary situation. I'll admit watching this, my instant reaction to being trapped was to floor it across the junction to the clear road I can see. In retrospect I don't think that would have been the right call, but you have to make a split second decision and that's what my mind told me to do.
It would've been valid - better than staying put and taking your chances. That's why automatic crossings have half-barriers. Reversing and breaking the barrier behind would've been better in this situation - going forward might've sent the horses onto the tracks.
I have to admit that was a lucky escape for both the viewer and the horse rider. If the horse had bolted being so skittish both the horse, rider and potentially even the train could have met a grisly end.
I'm not a horse person. I suspect that the rider(s) should have dismounted and walked their horse(s) across.
I know large vehicles are meant to call crossing control before proceeding but would the same have been good here to warn of animals that are quite clearly spooked? From memory I believe horses can take a long time to calm down especially after a situation that had scared them (please correct me if my understanding is wrong).
Not sure if there would’ve been enough time from the barrier going up to the train coming through for them to put a red signal on the line but they could’ve got a message to slow the train down slightly…maybe 🤷🏻♂️
@@inyobill Not necessarily. Without a rider, a horse in that situation may bolt.
@@chrispop99 Again, I am not familiar with horses, honest question: I believe horses might bolt with a rider,therefore from my position of limited understanding, I take you to say "Less likely (much less likely?) to bolt with rider"? Is this at all accurate?
@@inyobill Yes. The horse trusts the rider, and vice versa. If the horse was already spooked, the rider dismounting would feel like abandonment.
Horses are used to running away when a rider dismounts also.
As a rail enthusiast, I see this a lot, it's really annoying as people don't seem to get the idea to hold off. Thanks for posting this, hopefully people will see this and realise the dangers. On a side note, the minimum time from a crossing activating to the train passing is 27s, but usually more at full barrier crossings. Thanks again for posting mate 👍
Aren't full barrier crossings linked to the previous rail signal, so the the barrier is not down the rail signal will be at danger? And Half barriers the train driver just has to hope no-one has f'd up
@@heavyecho1 Yes, it's a little more complicated than that but that is the principle.
Whoa! that would get your sphincter oscillating. Really surprised they opened those barriers between those two trains. Fortunately a good outcome.
A very good educational tip Ashley , and dash cam shows only too well . Horses are unpredictable , even when ridden .
Scary moment indeed and glad all was ok in the end
I put imaginary yellow lines in the form of a box junction across a level crossing so then it becomes only move past the stop line if the exit is clear. I also keep well back (as the viewer did) when animals are involved
I can appreciate where the viewer went wrong and it is an easy mistake to make. Hopefully one they wont be making again or from others watching the video
Some level crossings do actually have yellow boxes marked, presumably it takes someone getting stuck on one for that to happen though.
Same here with the imaginary yellow hatched box. I drive over a level crossing 2 times a morning 5 days a week in Lincoln by the train station. I drive an 18 tonner to the industrial estate there. Whenever that level crossing is open, if there's a line on the other side (like this morning, it was pretty busy there) I stay behind that solid white line until I can clear the other side.
And like you I can also appreciate why and where the viewer went wrong.
@@joefoxon75 I though I had seen one in my past travels but couldn’t quite remember that far back
Most have "KEEP CROSSING CLEAR" signs, I assume that's basically the same thing.
@@jftechdrones It is the same thing but quite a few signs these days have been covered by tree / hedge growth, been hit and knocked over by large vehicles or, in some areas, stolen for the scrap metal value but not replaced or maintained
Edit: I see the sign on this crossing is clearly visible
That must have been a pretty busy junction a the barriers werent up for too long before coming back down. i confess i'd have made the same mistake. i ride so would have echo'd the drivers movements
That is not very busy if it was very busy they would have put in full barriers.
I think it’s crazy that at level crossings the first indication of a train is the barriers coming down.
Surely it would be far safer for the lights to flash and an alarm to sound for several seconds before the barrier even starts to move?
They probably have. We can't tell there's no sound in the video.
Actually that is the case. The first sign of a train approaching is a steady amber light, followed by the flashing wig-wags and closure of the barriers
How he was able to just sit there on the track when a train was coming is beyond my comprehension.😳
he was embarrassed probably mate, we are all human
He probably didn't: likely the dashcam kept recording.
Half Barrier level crossings like this one have no signal protection on them - so the train has no way of knowing if the crossing is clear. The full width barrier crossings are fitted with signals which have to be set to proceed by the signaller after they've put the barriers down and the crossing is safe.
He wasn’t on the track. He was in the space between the barrier and the tracks.
@@stevena9305
True, but I bet he/she wished he/she had a change of underwear handy. I know I would have in that situation.
We can spend all the time in the world finding who to blame, but frankly the infrastructure should not allow for such incident to happen in the first place. Replace the horse rider with a wheelchair user or someone with a walking stick. The 30 seconds would not have been enough for those vulnerable road users to cross before the second train arrived.
That's a good point. As others have said, those barriers should never have risen after the first train.
I doubt there's rail signal infrastructure anywhere in the world that could account for and prevent two trains travelling in opposite directions passing a specific level crossing within a short period of time.
I would also agree. Indeed there are many of Ashley's videos where i see people making mistakes that better thought-out infrastructure would prevent.
It wasn't even 30 seconds, barrier went down 1:10 train passed at 1:32, not sure what time lights and bells would have gone off but seems very tight on time.
nothing wrong with the infrastructure. It's a level crossing, you enter it if the exit is clear. Easy mistake to make, but can't say the infrastructure is at fault.
Yon never, never cross the white stop line on a level crossing unless it's 100% clear. Being 99% sure can be fatal.
These barriers, at least the newer ones, are designed to break in case of an emergency like this. and the rail manager(the company) would be more than happy to replace the barrier than to have to check for repairs on the track and even repair on trains.
I come across horses like this all the time being rural. The best thing in this instance is to stop (not on the crossing), engine and radio off and let the horse pass.
The horse rider is also at fault to some degree. They should have dismounted and lead the horse over the crossing once it started resisting. While I get they’ve got to train the horse, that one wasn’t ready for somewhere so busy.
Great lesson, I could easily see myself getting into a similar situation.
The horse riders need to accept blame for causing this dangerous situation. The dark horse should not be stood there if the horse does not want to cross, and the white horse rider should not have just stopped immediately on the other side. They created confusion and were also blocking traffic in a dangerous place.
Level crossings scare the absolute crab out of me! I can confidently say I don't think I would've made this mistake that the cammer made. I don't live near any level crossings so whenever I come across one I go into an absolute maximum caution mode. I suppose if you drive through them every day you may become desensitised to the danger.
Wow! Yeah, don’t enter the level crossing until the exit is clear. Same rule as a yellow box but with more severe consequences for sure!
I give horses plenty of time and space but the one in this video is not ready to be let lose in the roads.
Half-barriers mean its an automatic level crossing, not interlocked with the signals, to enable an escape route.
Minimum times are 7 seconds yellow light, 7 seconds flashing reds, 7 seconds barriers down, seven seconds fastest train will arrive at the crossing. 28 seconds in total until the fastest train will arrive.
Crossings with full barriers across the road are controlled and monitored by a human (or obstacle detectors), and the signals won't clear for a train unless the crossing is clear
Was at a Lc a few weeks back, there were cars in front of me - but I held back as I felt I wouldn’t clear the track. The driver behind me got impatient and went round me onto the track, the barriers started coking down and he has a similar issue as above. If only he’d waited behind me - I could see I was better to wait!
With the short time between the trains crossing, I'm a little surprised that the barriers lifted at all.
Perhaps that's only because of the issue with the skittish horses though, ordinarily your be long gone before the barriers closed again and maybe staying closed, when apparently clear, would just goad chancers into blowing through regardless.
The horse rider took a bit of a risk right in the beginning, deciding to wait for the train that close! Maybe it would've been an option to go back and wait a bit further away when they saw the lights blink. That way the horse might've got let stressed and upset about the train and maybe everything went differently then, who knows. Mad respect for the motorist though, they basically had so much care and respect towards the horse and the rider that they missed how they were putting their own life in danger, sort of let that super dangerous mistake of stopping on the level crossing happen to them, while helping others.
This is one of the scariest AN videos I've seen !
I'll give you all another tip too; no matter that the signal is on go for you; don't for goodness sake take that as read. I saw a clip on You Tube of a car getting hit by a train despite the crossing having literally only just opened; and not shut again before the 2nd train came. I always let it clear then look both up and down the tracks for my own safety and peace of mind.
Well done to the cammer for sharing what they did wrong. Glad they learnt from it. Also glad everything worked out okay bar for a few scratches on the boot lid; that must have been really scary.
Driving forward **IS** an option! That's why the automatic crossings have half-barriers, to let vehicles escape if the barriers come down while the vehicle is on the crossing.
Crossings with full-width barriers are under the manual control of the signaller, who can see the crossing either directly or via CCTV. The signaller must press a button to verify they've seen the crossing is clear before the signal can go green for the train. Whereas with half-barrier and open (no barrier) crossings, the train's signal starts off green, and the lights and barriers activate when the train is detected a fixed distance from the crossing.
If you go forward, you go ONTO the live track, which you do not want to do, that's why it's not meant to be
@@Ed.E You're meant to clear the track asap - if you're moving at say 30mph, then can easily clear the track.
Not hard really. Plenty of time to clear it in first place.
Even I could've cleared this crossing myself in this situation without needing to reverse at all.
@@Ed.EThe reason the barriers only cover half the road on automatic crossings is to allow vehicles to drive forward and escape in an emergency
Those types of barrier are lethal. Automatic Half Barriers. They may be recorded, but they aren't monitored. They aren't interlocked with a controlled signal, either. They are activated by the train's wheel, a relatively short distance away, usually less than a minute from activation to threshold. Cross those barriers as though they were a field crossing. Approach with care, cross quickly. If ever stalled on one, evacuate without delay. You've only seconds to get clear.
The horse rider is also in the wrong, they should've called the signal box for permission to cross, they would've given a longer lime to cross and probably monitored on CCTV.
I'm sure the signs on approach to LCs say to call if you have animals.
No requirement to do so with a horse.
See this happen a lot at a level crossing nearby. Though usually cyclists more than horses that catch people out. People can use their instrument of impatience all day long, I will not cross a level crossing, bridge or intersection if I cannot clear the entire thing.
Hat off for their owning the mistake. Think, had it been me, I hope I would have seen the 2nd horse and held back until I knew which way both were travelling
Thanks for sharing. It's not a situation most people encounter often
If a horse is unpredictable, it shouldn't be ridden on the roads. It is putting other road users in danger. The driver should never have crossed the entry white line until the whole route out is clear though.
I won't lie, I'm really happy I watched this video. I would have no ideo what to do if I was in that situation
Just wondering if those horses or the rider were ready to be on the road, seem to have problems controling it. If they are a bit twitchy or unsure, is it wise to take them near a railway crossing
I'll be interested in the RAIB report if there is one. Hopefully the riding school / stable is advised to avoid this crossing!
I attribute some of this to horse riders. Surely it would have been better if instead fart arsing around near level crossing they should of got clear and then messed around.
Man that is absolutely frightning. Andrew, I'm glad you survived this. If your vehicle was a little bigger, it may have been a different story.
Wow. My heart was beating when the train went past the viewer. Pounding it was.
Maybe they should consider adding a yellow hashed box to the middle of the train crossing area, so the horses would be obligated not to block people on the tracks.
Sometimes, even the noise of an idling engine is enough to spook a horse that is already nervous/upset; I encountered a group of riders on a country lane a few years ago and had to switch my engine off and sit patiently while they calmed a couple of the horses and filed past me.
Even after the barriers had gone up after the train I'd have reversed back until those horses were across after what just happened. We have a level crossing near us with a turning into the station on the one side. The amount of times I've seen a car indicate to go across traffic while cars queue behind on the crossing is scary.
The TLDR of this is very simple. Treat a crossing like a yellow box junction. Don't cross the stop line until you can see that your full path all the way out the other side is clear so you will be able to cross and clear the crossing in one movement without stopping mid way. Don't creep forward over the line to assert your right to proceed, because that doesn't work on trains!
With nervy horses even that might not work. What happens if they turn round and walk back into your path, blocking your exit? Probably safest just to stay put until they have gone well away.
I keep thinking about this video and I'm honestly terrified I wouldn't react well in this situation. This is a reminder that level crossings should be seen as areas of extreme danger and nothing less.
I wasn't expecting that - well done to the lady in the Mercedes!
Nobody in the comments wants to say it so I will... those horse riders are not in full control of their horses and therefore shouldn't be on the road mixing with other traffic and potentially catching out drivers as happened in this clip. Yes the driver could have handled the situation better but how many of us would also have been caught out, you can only go so far in accomodating other road users mistakes. It seems to me that no one wants to criticise the riders in this clip because it is the done thing, well that won't wash with me.
It seems like they didnt follow the rules of using the phone or dismounting and for that horse rider to block the traffic flow while she dose a u turn is really stupid.
So, in this situation, you just have to wait not just until the horse has cleared the crossing, but until it has cleared the crossing and moved far enough away that it couldn't possibly move back into the space immediately after the crossing if it suddenly changes direction in the time it takes you to drive over the crossing at a speed slow enough to not frighten it. And you also have to allow that the horse coming the other way could suddenly go anywhere.