ResoNix Sound Solutions - Tech Tip: Helix DSP Input EQ, Summing, Automatic Time Measurement, Tune EQ
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
- Hello all! In this video we cover all sorts of stuff when setting up a car audio system using a Helix DSP, specifically a Helix V Twelve Mk2 DSP in this instance (but most of this is applicable to any of the other Helix DSP models). We get into input gain, measuring input signal, input EQ, summing, Helix's Automatic Time Measurement, and their Tune EQ auto EQ feature. Hope this helps. If you would like a specific video of anything regarding Helix, ResoNix, or any of the other brands we carry, let me know!
More info about the Automatic Time Measurement feature can be found here.
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1 hour and 40 minutes of learning. Extremely educational. Borderline overwhelming. I'll be watching this again and again. Thank you!
This and part one of this have to be the most comprehensive guide to the software and tuning using it. There really is very little out there in terms of depth when it comes to Helix. Thank you.
Awesome!! Thank you so much. I'm trying to tune a DSP.3s for the first time ever. I've been making a lot of mistakes trying to do it all with the Helix software and have leaned heavily on REW. This video answered a lot of my questions!! Toyota OEM radios are no fun!
Hey Brian. Glad to hear this helped. If you need further help with integrating inti the Toyota system, feel free to email me. I can definitely help.
Online tutorial, our supplier was supposed to do for us......
Awesome, have learnt a few extra tips.
For sub time click......I have to raise gain on mono block just for this step. But yours works too.😊
You’ve given me soooo much good advice on the CarA/V subreddit lol. You’re so awesome! Love the video.
Always happy to help!
You the G.O.A.T man!!!! I have the Ultra DSP and pretty much not even using 25% of its functions.
Thanks for the tutorial. It answers a lot of my questions.
Before doing time allignement you can adjust the input sensitivity of your mic in the setup of Windows. Standard is 0db. If you raise it by 10 or 20db it measures without problems. Even the sub😊
Yes, this is something I check every time now.
You are a legend, thanks for all that you do.
Anytime
This is the most detail demo from CZcams, thank you! I see people tune the system while they are outside the car, I do it while sitting in the driver seat, what's the better way to do this?
Sitting in the car
Thank you, Nick. I’m looking forward to giving TuneEQ another try.
Awesome!!!
I am gonna watch this in stead of some stupid movie on tv these next days...
I am a DSP noob, I've always build my soeakers and crossovers (home and car) by ear. Overtime you get a very good ear and learn a lot... but DSP is so much faster and better for the car. So I bought a Dayton Omnimic v2 mic, for testing... but have to learn all from start... Hopefully it will work with the Dayton mic I have...
Thanks for this learning vid Nick 👍💪👌
One of the hardest things for me to figure out was how to set up my microphone in Windows 11. I'm pretty confident with my PC skillz, or so I thought until W11 came out. MS really likes to change the way we do basic functions with every OS iteration.
I just chuckled a bit when I got to the part where your measuring to your nose for time alignment setup. My honker is a lot bigger than most folks, so my TA will be WAY off ....LOL😆
Thankfully it'll pretty much always need adjustment by ear anyways :)
Thank you for sharing this content.
Thank you for this video Nick ❤
Thanks Nick! This is excellent!
Excellent video on using the RTA features in the Helix software - best I have seen so far! I am new to tuning, but focusing on learning how to use REW (with some success so far). But two questions: 1) When tuning in the car, how loud do you have the system? Loud pink noise and losing hearing seem to go hand in hand (and why I have been tuning outside the car) - but you need the level high enough to get good measurements. Do you use earplugs or just tough it out? 2) How are your tuning results using the built in RTA interface vs using REW? Close enough that most can’t hear a difference or should I stick with using REW? Thanks!
"1) When tuning in the car, how loud do you have the system?"
Loud enough to overcome background noise, and loud enough to be similar to where I will listen to the music. I wear earplugs when taking measurements sometimes if i do them loud enough.
"2) How are your tuning results using the built in RTA interface vs using REW? Close enough that most can’t hear a difference or should I stick with using REW? "
When I do it, it's pretty close since I know exactly what I'm doing and know how to use the tools in front of me to the best of my advantage. If you are not as well versed in one or the other and don't know how to fully use them, then you may get different results.
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions Thanks, that is some good insight! I am still a “rookie” with tuning (my own car, custom 3-way active using a Match UP10DSP in a BMW with HK and factory MOST system) but have learned a lot about using REW. The Helix interface seems a bit more “clunky” to me when compared to REW, especially when trying to do things like level match two channels or easily pin point frequencies where there might be problems I need to address - would be nice if the curser on the graph were better. Also, the Helix interface when tweaking the acoustical response to match the desired target curve is an “interesting” iterative process with the Helix “buttonology” when compared to using REW.
If possible, it would be great to see a video where you actually tune a system, start to finish, using only the Helix software. You have already covered the initial setup and time alignment portion. I am talking about the frequency response measurement/adjustment portion of the tuning (to match a desired target curve), including using some of the tools (like all pass filters, channel phase adjustments, etc.) when encountering different frequency response/cancellation problems, etc, encountered in a car. Great stuff!
Great video, thanks for making this
Lmfao, i thought i was the only one who had to google Centimeters to inches
Nope. I did as well
Great Job Nick but I am always wondering all the precision you guys put in installing the system e.g measuring every millimeter and every split millisecond. Of course the car is always empty and the microphone is PRECISELY placed right on the nose for time measurement! But most of the time we are driving both of us ( Yes I let my wife drive the 911 Turbo S!!!.) I was always wondering why we should not do all measurements with 2 people in the car then?? This would be more realistic. I am spending tons of time learning the whole thing because my installer did not know a s... from shinola with the set up he made for us! (Helix DSP Ultimate and 3 way high end Dynaudio!)
Have you ever tried bridging V Twelve channels by reversing phase to one channel in the DSP and then wiring the load across the two speaker positives? Of course you'd need to insure that input routing, gain, EQ and time were identical for both channels being used.
In theory, it should work - but I'm not sure about reality.
It sure would solve the biggest drawbacks of the V Eight/V Twelve IMO
No. And it really isn't that much of a drawback. Most people don't know how to set up gain structure properly. With a proper gain structure, 75 watts per channel surprises damn near everyone :)
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions Every system is different I guess.
For my two systems, the V Eight would be useful for 3-way front stage with a bridged pair of channels on midbass, and the V Twelve would be useful for 3-way front and 2-way rear, again with a bridged pair on the front midbass. 75W on midbass just won't cut if for me, personally.
Anyway, if you ever have the inclination to try, I'd be interested in the outcome.
TY you much big help for me
Great videos. Thank you for helping us noobs with getting things set up properly.
But im having some issues with my Match pp86 mk2 amp, the problem is i think with the IO settings, i can't get the C and D channels to play anything but the rear speakers, even if i only have one input on the IO page i still cant make the front mid's to play.
I can get the tweeters in front to work fine on channels A, B.
I have tried using channels E and F instead, but the speakers just won't play for me.
I have a 8" mid and a tweeter in the front doors and stock speakers in the rear, and a match pp 10e-q sub.
Any help would be nice because im about to go crazy figuring this out.
Edit: I can´t seem to set the gain on the amp either, no matter what signal i play on a near max volume to set the input gain i get no clipping light, infact the clip light wont light up, not even green before it goes red to signal clipping like it did on the PP62 i had before.
Thanks in advance.
good video. Its a shame audio tech Fischer dont have their own in depth videos on all the aspects of the software. Did you get to the bottom of that dip in the measurement? Would love to see a video where you actually correct an all pass filter as well.
Good afternoon: What menu should I press on the helix dsp, so that the menu appears, advanced gain, configurationt, input level bar
Thanks for the great video. Very helpful.
With regards to the input output screen, I was going to assign the front and rear speakers to the subwoofer. So the sub will be playing regardless of the fader position on the head unit. Is that likely to be a problem with phase cancellation etc or not? I noticed how careful you were checking the signal from the 2 front speakers to make sure the sub got a good summed signal in. My sub has a left and right inputs. Would I be better summing the fronts together into the left and the rears into the right input? Or summing both lefts and rights together?
Or is it safer just sticking with the fronts like you did?
Thank you.
Hi. Thanks for video!!! One question. Is it normal when the equalizer is turned up to maximum or minimum? As far as I know, raising or lowering the equalizer a lot leads to distortion.
"As far as I know, raising or lowering the equalizer a lot leads to distortion."
You have been led incorrectly. Lowering *never* causes distortion. Boosting can, but this all depends on your gain structure, as well as accounting for the natural frequency response of the signal you are playing through the system. Anyone blindly saying "boosting EQ is bad" can be fully ignored, as they clearly do not understand audio, and how the hardware and signal work together.
Thnks man, great video. Question..when running the ISA do you use a specific pink noise track for every speaker? And what volume do you usually set on the radio?
I'm using an aftermarket HU, its Kenwood DNX997XR, RCA's from HU to Helix Ultra.... is it necessary for me to perform these 'Input analysis' steps, or can I just go straight to Tuning?
@@roscoebail5551 nope, go straight to tuning
I have a BMW E90 with two front speakers and separate tweeters on the doors near the windshield. Two subs beneath the front seats and two rear deck speakers.
How do I split the front speakers into the tweeters and woofers on the door?
Is there a way to do that ?
Much appreciated !
Sir !
Can you kindly explain what do you mean by the fear of ::: speed and accident ???
I have a question. Couldn't you save a lot of time with setting inputs by grabbing just 1 set of flat (or flatish), summing them and sending them to all the channels?
Love the content and lots of information. Definitely bookmarking this video for reference.
maybe lose fade on head unit?
I have a v eight and I used Softwares 5.02.03 but this advance gain option is not show plz tell me
This is super useful advice thanks guys have just one question: I have only 2 way components up front and a sealed subwoofer enclosure in the back is it typical to set the subwoofer out of phase to the fronts? Out of phase is louder but muddier and less tight it also feels coming a bit late to the party. It is this just a matter of preference? Thanks for any tips.
This video of ours should answer that :)
czcams.com/video/ZoZyDsDSaGY/video.html
maybe a dumb question, but the rta in the software uses the mic from your laptop? and if so, does the laptop placement in the truck make a difference?
thank you for this video, huge help
This is an input signal analyzer. It is measuring the frequency response of the signal that is feeding the processor to aid in OEM integration.
@ResoNixSoundSolutions aha. So it's built into the amp? No need for a mic? If so that's incredible. I have a v twelve I'll be setting up soon. So this is ridiculously helpful. Thank you again! 👍👍
@83codygs this and the microphone portion, while being the same tool serve two totally different purposes and measure different things in the sound system.
hi Nick before I bother my installer too much can I ask if the Helix DSP can be configured to reset EQ to oem head unit profile rather than remembering the one I was using (bluetooth)?
because the way they have set it up when i switch sources eg from headunit to bluetooth the eq must be manually selected .. then come back to car and use headunit music and eq is left to bluetooth….
do i need to rta both inputs and outputs or can i just eq the outputs? i guess doing so will affect sound quality. great video btw thanks
Depends on the situation. Sometimes it is necessary to eq the inputs, but usually not required.
Did you explain how to set levels? or do you just set it by ear? And do you set them, before or after you EQ with the RTA?
For the input? It's just a matter of summing them, taking a measurement, and adjusting input percentage until you reach a desired result.
Sorry, I should have been more specific. Actually my question is for the output.
@@nectros7157 that happens during tuning. After initial measurements are made, eq and levels are done at the same time.
I got the helix.2.. I dont see the final option you have (the tuneeq eq ) but did try with A speech mic to use as RTA mic to auto set. Whats weird is after I saved my work as preset 1.. I used my focusrite with a akg music recording mic with different result, so to play it safe i ordered a RTA mic from amazon will be here tomorrow. Is the calibration file why i am seeing different results same setup ?? whats even more weird is the Focus rite was able to increase my tweets substantially (maybe it could hear that high) as it made the last 4 bands increase but seems the bass did not show the same shelf like start that the USB speech mike 2 (a medical dictation mic) did very interesting .
Hoping you figured this out by now but you can’t use those types of mics for this. Measurement mics have 2 main qualities that make them measurement mics - they have an omnidirectional pickup pattern, and they have a very flat frequency response. They can also often take very high SPL. The mics you’re talking about are going to have cardioid or hypercardioid pickup patterns, be very sensitive to SPL, and also have nothing that could even remotely be called a flat frequency response. The calibration file for the reference mics also further flattens the response to compensate for the small fluctuations in the response caused by the mass production process, which will be specific to that very one unit, hence why it has its own calibration file supplied from the factory. Your system is nowhere near flat or even correctly tuned if you used these other types of mics for measurements.
does the tune require the usb card for the helix or a usb interface on the computer? Im gonna do this to mine just installed and running it day 3 in a Basic crossover. I wanna check my input too but Was going to use JL audio TuN to use my Focusrite but if i can use it with the pc and achive this this looks easier
@ ken you dumb dumb try it and dont post these kind of questions LMAO! it worked but added an additional question
Awesome video man!! What mic did you use ?
I use an earthworks mic
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions
Nice a have first setup in your video answer me so many questions thanks do you think that I Cen do that good enough with mini dsp UMIK-1 mic ?
Should I do a helix ultra or the 12V? I have 13 speakers in this mercedes bermester system. I was thinking of the helix ultra with 2 audio control LC- 6.1200
Depends on a few things. That said, I really wouldn't suggest those amps.
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions what amps would you suggest? Ty for your reply!
I don’t have an advance input box to click on. What am I missing?
What dsp do you have, and what software version
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions I have a Helix V8 MK2. It was programmed with Version 4. I also have Version 5 but both pages look the same. I must be missing a setting that has to be selected.
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions I actually bought this from Vanguard 2 years ago. I might just call and ask some questions. I have never been happy on the tune the local shop did where I live.
Looks like it was removed on the later releases. I don't have an advanced button either and I can not find where they hid it.
Love the videos and has helped tremendously so far. Any chance you could help me with how I would do this for just 4 channels. Components with passive crossover at 4100hz for tweeter in front and 3-way coaxial with passive crossover for rear? Your videos are great and I have helix dsp mini mk2 and umik -1 mic. Everything else is prepped, flat input, polarity, balance, time alignment, levels, but everytime I run rta, It gives me virtually no mid or bass in the rear and makes the front almost ear.piercing. I'd like the fronts to be mainly 3 or 400hz and above and the rears to just be in bypass mode for the time.being until I get a sub.
This just sounds like you need to customize your target curve to preference.
Great video! - input sensitivity gain. Use 0db pink noise? You said white noise but in manual says pink ? I thought a 1k 0db tone would work too? Or you still prefer that song over all the above?
I had the same question...does 0db pink noise even exist?
@@PbcMr contacted helix. Use input sensitivity tone when you install dsp software.
@@daveroski I don't recall that file?
@@PbcMr open software. Very first screen before you hit connect. At top there’s a link to test tones. They put in local folder on pc when it installs and brings you there.
@@daveroski Ah, see that. So the PulsedSineSweep file in the Input Gain directory?
Hello dear friend, thanks a lot your video. It is very useful.. I am coming some question : ) How Can I highlight the P icon(electrical phase) for both channels in the main view for P-Six MK2 (Dsp PC Tool Version 4.80b)
By clicking on the P
If my input to the Helix is digital/optical, can I just skip straight to Time Alignment and EQ? I couldn't find any of the input gain settings, so I concluded its either due to me being a V Eight Mk2 (and this demo being a V Twelve) OR, more likely, down to Analog vs Digital Input.
I was able to find my clip limit using the first steps, but now I want to add some gains etc... unsure how to do this safely without pushing kit too hard.
Yes, go right to output tuning.
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions thank you kindly! Especially for the quick reply!
If I theoretically upped the gains in the software and on the V Eight, what risks do I pose? Distortion?
@@v1ni that depends on how much and where you are doing it.
Outputs to about 5db and the actual potentiometer on the device.@@ResoNixSoundSolutions
Im interested in remote tunning!
@@sebasthianvalentin7602 resonixsoundsolutions.com/product/remote-dsp-tuning-service/
Volume level very low sir
Step 1. Buy a Helix DSP ✔️
Step 2. Buy a laptop windows operating system w/ windows 9 or higher. Audiotech Fischer doesn't support OS Mac 😢