Approaching the Speed of Ignorance [Game Theory][How Fast is Sonic the Hedgehog? AKA Sonic is Slow]
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- čas přidán 7. 05. 2020
- One of MatPat's most controversial theories hits the scene today. Finally, I'm here to tackle the issue of whether Sonic the Hedgehog could possibly be slower than Super Mario. Is it true? Of hecking course not. Let's figure out why.
Original video
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Game Theory: How Fast Is Sonic the Hedgehog?: • Game Theory: How Fast ...
Sources
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Gnoggin's Rebuttal Part 1: • Game Theory: How Fast ...
Part 2: • Game Theory: How Fast ...
Social Media
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“light speed that’s small time” looks like mat pat doesn’t pay attention to the games
- That first bit of his is cringe. The only reason Archie Sonic isn't game-canon is because its world rules are completely different. It has nothing to do with Superman porn or...or whatever that was! Moments like this make me wonder if MatPat really intended for Game Theory to be taken seriously at all...
- Oh no...Is he stretching figures like he did with Mario's sprites?? O-Oh no, is he cross-comparing different models of Peach and Mario to Sonic now?!?
- This is just me spitballing, but it's a bit ridiculous to think that Sonic is going ALL-OUT with his speed in every single instance. Yes, maybe not even when he's chasing Eggman in the classic games. I mean, Sonic is surprisingly relaxed by nature, and a bit cocky besides.
- Even if normal Sonic isn't fully light-speed (especially since the games seem to state that only certain things let him move light-speed, like the Light-Speed Dash on a trail of rings, the Super transformation, or the time travel gates), it would STILL take about a third of light-speed to outrun the black hole at the end of Colors for as long as he could. That is NOTHING to sneeze at.
- As those comments stated, going that literally fast in gameplay would make him ridiculously unplayable. That's kind of why visual tricks are so vital for the enjoyment of these games, and many other games.
Normal Sonic restores time and space in a conceptual level and has been stated and shown to be faster than black holes and light.
i also like how he used just gameplay and no feats cutscenes or anything to make a fair statement but when he made his how strong is mario vid he did all of those things for mario which is massively unfair
& the best part, Once Sonic Unleashed & Generations roll around, Sonic is most definitely faster than the light Speed Dash, compared to when he had access to it in SA1 & SA2, with how slower the Light Speed Dash are in those games compared to the boost
What makes this better is that in a later theory matpat admitted he made he sonic is slow theory out of spite that another channel did(which you can see in the sonic is slow video by saying their wrong) so based on that I’m assuming he rushed through this out of spite
Also no I don’t remember which theory or video mat pat said this. I haven’t watched game theory in years due to his theories being so wrong that it makes someone like me seem like a genius
He does everything out spite, ever since he was married. He mocked Peach with lies of Stockholm Syndrome (when she's an Olive Oyl expy), he mocked Mario with lies of ASPD (when clearly Mario isn't like that, and MatPat contradicts himself multiple times), and he takes stuff that isn't canon to the finalized versions of the story as evidence.
@@robbiewalker2831 Well, there's also that whole thing where he makes theories to enter fandoms, usually especially clickbaity ones, his horde of child aged fans enter the fandom, and a couple debunks laters he calls everyone in said fandom toxic for not liking the zero effort theory. Hollow Knight and Kirby would be some of the more infamous examples.
@@bigchungus6827hes only human
Not only does Mario have a flatter level, but his jumps don't slow down his speed since he has no curves to jump over.
Nope all of that is false and he doesn’t have a flatter level. Mario is faster than sonic and he DOES have curves to jump over
@@firestriker3580 Have you seen Sonic's speedloops? Those average about 0 total distance traveled. Mario 1 also never had curves; most of those levels were completely flat with pipes scattered about that you could jump over.
@@firestriker3580 You even play the original game? No. Mario has no curves or slops or anything.
@@firestriker3580 When you simp for a series so much, you become delusional.
@@linhero797No Mario has always been slower than Sonic
you are a really REALLY underrated channel you definitely deserve way more than 100 subs lol. This theory was indeed ridiculous and sonic has multiple massively faster than light feats and was at least slightly faster than light when that video was made.
That True
One of the main things debunking matpat's theory was it isn't the same version of Sonic so you can't use the comics
The thing that bothered me is why try to use real life measurements when your going off their first game appearance? Sonics game sprite is taller then Mario's sprite and he has to travel a greater distance not even counting the slopes, loops and jumps. It wasn't just marketing and level design, Sonic as a game asset is moving faster then Mario's or many other video game platformer characters at that time and the game cant even keep up when sonic is in his top ball speed for to long. Does Sonic literally run at the speed of sound in game no but is he the fastest video game character asset ever? maybe, probably, I don't actually know because I only see people going off of the lore speed of characters and not their game speed. Hell they had to build 2 specialized game engines just to have sonic move in modern games because his game asset is literally moving at incredibly game breaking fast speeds through the levels.
That was longer then I thought it would be, anyway nice video.
The problem is that game theory use in game things
In game elementen most of the time are not canon/applicable
This is why sonic and the lightspeed dash are so slow, in sake of the gameplay
Your research puts Matpat to shame!!
Not a tall order, honestly.
Heres Sonics speed calculated
Time travel= immeasurable speed
Sonic can time travel
Finished talk
Exactly!😭
Hold it! I just noticed something... Mario is exactly 16 Pixels tall. Yes. Meaning using Matpats wrong numbers he would be 4'8. But the issue is. Mario is only 12 Pixels wide. Mario is only 16 Pixels wide in his Super Mario form. You can even tell this in the video by the fact that they actually distance Mario Properly by the sprite. If Mario was 16 Pixels wide he would perfectly align with the 16 Pixel block grid the ENTIRE game uses in Mat Pat's display. But he doesn't.
This may not sound bad until you realize that Matthew increased Mauro's distance traveled and this, speed, by 33%. Or that it would only be 75% of the numbers he concluded!
It should also be noted that Mario's body is facing the the camera, arms to the side. Withh his head facing left or right. Meaning no duh he's kinda wide. In his Super form, Mario's arms are also 4 Pixels wide each. You know, about 10 fucking inches thick. This is why it's rather silly to use Pixel Measurements with Canon heights in older games. Especially older Mario games. Mario's 5'10 Height seems right in new games but in the old games it's ridiculous because of these inconsistencies.
Also I'd just like to point out one final thing. Why the hell is Matthew using an 8 Bit game to compare to a 16 Bit game. For it to be fair, Mario's speed would have to be cut in half because he has half the bits and thus travels the same distance in pixels half the time. No duh Mario is faster when he has to travel half the distance.
in terms of a death battle. sonic wins it.
because his speed is really high and mario can somewhat react but when sonic uses super and mario uses the rainbow star then it's game over for mario because the rainbow star lasts 10 seconds and not 20000 seconds DEATH BATTLE. and super sonic lasts 50 seconds but if sonic wants to extend his super form he can just get some more rings but if we don't wanna take the games mechanics then sonic will last in super form forever until he wants to stop.and mario has advantages like durability and strength and experiences but that won't give him the win. because sonic has a lot of factors like infinite stamina , agility , battle speed , IQ , DC , AC , reaction speed.
I think it was his videos on frontiers and/or sonic cd that made most of his viewers actually see his bias. In fact, he flat out said he was biased in the cd video.
Matt patt: eggman is faster than sonic on foot
Also shows footage of sonic passing him 11:29
Matpat: But Hey, It’s Just a Theory, A Game-
RedQueenMiku2: No!, No It Isn’t Matpat!, This is a hot load of garbage with your stamp of approval!.
Everyone: YEAH!!!
Very nice disclamer. I highly agree with the need to post that due to there existing a certain group of people who do everything in their power to find ways to hate famed creators.
Also, as for the rest of the video. LOVE IT!
The reason why I prefer cutting some marios from marios is basically because we are gonna scale mario vs sonic not marios beating down sonic.
Dude, I love your debunk videos. This is right up my ally
Game theory is a good show but it flat out ignores specific details on source material it covers in theory’s. The one I remember best is when he did a video that krabby patties have no secret ingredients, despite spongebob saying otherwise when mr krabs licenses the formula.
Your channel is very underrated.
Base modern sonic had destroyed perfect chaos with ease.
Mattpat : no sonic was dying!
Me : what how?
Mattpat : because he's too fest.
Good video
fun fact if we want to see sonic's true speed we will not we will need him to get at a flat planet for him to run on no stuff that would ruin it so yeah if he did run at his max speed he would've fallen down and got his face ruined
Thank you. Freaking. THANK YOU!!!!!! And in context what about in Sonic Generations where in objective 3 it said Sonic can Accelerate through Time in order to restore life and color back in form. Tell that to Matpat when you get the chance.
in short
sonic faster than mario cuz of simple game design
thats it.
Pixel measurements are the worst way to measure things in video games. Someone had to say it.
Oh yes, measure him based on arbitrary pixels and not the fact that Sonic has canon moments where he is faster than the speed of light. (With existence of the light speed dash from as early as adventure)
(Also those closing remarks where he talks about the 'morel of the story' is the most hippocritical thing I've heard in a while.)
Lore of Approaching the Speed of Ignorance [Game Theory][How Fast is Sonic the Hedgehog? AKA Sonic is Slow] momentum 100
Thank you for debunking this video.
1:46 UH WHAT! YOU CAN TRANSFORM AND CLONE YOURSELF WHAT ELSE DO YOUE HAVE
He made up sonics size
I always hate it when minors are hated and called pedophiles for having romantic interest in other minors around the same age! Like when I saw someone call Tron Bonne (age 14) a pedophile because of her crush on her series' Mega Man (age 14), or when Joker from Persona 5 (age 16) is called a pedophile because you can date Futaba (age 15) in that game (and no, I'm not talking about the adult characters you can date in that game, it makes sense for them to get the label, because it's not misleading-at-best (I am NOT looking up whether minors can be considered pedophiles or not)).
12 and 17 are 5 years apart that's quite a few years so what was the point of your comment?
@@Dr_Damon_of_the_anti_furries sonic is 15
@@Archie.Phantom huh sorry must have gotten that information from a flawed source or rememberd wrong
What about the manual for sonic unleashed?
Not to be mean or anything, but this is like an 8 year old video
I’m wondering why debit a video that came out in 2012 , then again why am I commenting this video in 2022
8:21 what did that guy mean and i think matpat was using the gameplay of there first games to see whos faster not the modern ones.
For the first point, that was a joke. For the second point, it's pointless to compare their speed using only the first two games because it's been pretty much implied that Sonic, in-universe, has been getting faster and faster with each new installment in the franchise, making the first game a bad point of comparison. Also on that note, MatPat botched pretty much all of his data in that point, so in the end it barely matters.
@@RedQueenMiku2 remember gnoggin the one that you seid would do a better job than you on this (which i heavily disagree with) he actually made a video saying sonic is slow. now thats odd.
@@RedQueenMiku2 hey look at this czcams.com/video/qIjBuZ1kXQk/video.html
Mario most certainly is faster. Mario is able to move and keep up with characters who are in states of being in multiple Time periods as well as being able to move in a timeless space.
Sonic in forces was able to this in the null void and get out of just by running fast enough...in base... yeah the speed gab is quite big
@@Chougui412 Mario moved in a place beyond space itself and in the context of the statement it was referring to mathematical dimensions, yeah nah Mario gaps.
@@FirePugthe2nd in generations time eater was able to destroy all time and space and sonic didn't just survive he was able to move and restore it in base, and also escaping the null void an endless dimension by sheer speed alone like it ain't even a competition
@@Chougui412 that’s immeasurable speed at best, while I can argue the beyond space feat to irrelevant
@@FirePugthe2nd give us your argument then
Also how can a place be only beyond space?
too late ive seen your old videos on the mario is a psycho path thoery
13:15 the black hole caught up to him
@AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH my point exactly
@AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH she said he outran it
He can move faster than the speed of sound when you boost as sonic he makes a small sonic boom you can see it when he is boosting. Even than it think he is holding back and the light speed shoes let's him go faster than the speed of light and dash thour ring but than he never used it again but he can still das thur ring meaning he has gotten faster and even this video is correct czcams.com/video/yT7IlPgiuII/video.html
Mario is 5”1
6:03 it is simply to clean things up it's one video that has to be produced in a week
10:27 UM WHY THE HOMING ATTACK? AND WHY DID YOU CUT IT OFF?
It's cut off for the sake of a joke, as the point had already been made by that point. As for why I mentioned the Homing Attack, it's an extremely fast method of travel for Sonic in multiple games, so I felt it should have been included in MatPat's analysis.
what?that point before the light speed dash point what was that just asking
2:37 that's because it takes time and effort to perfect the craft this was really early into his career just chillax
Es S.E.F. pero habla inglés... y mujer... supongo... no sé que es S.E.F.
7:34 UM WHY IS THAT A PROBLEM
The sprites from the first game likely aren't accurately scaled due to the limitations of the NES, which wouldn't see workarounds until some time after the release of the original Super Mario Bros. Just look at Mario and Peach in that game, who look to be the same height when other games have shown us that simply isn't the case.
bomba
4:54 yes it just makes things easier.
11:53 the point of a theory is to make something fun it's not about probability it's about possibility you can't use a game mechanic as a debunk it's lazy
8:21 that's because this was from years ago and he would be too fast and it would be too embarrassing for Sonic because one goddamn jump would send Mario to the stratosphere and we would never see another Mario game unless they make Mario Galaxy 3
12:51 you can't use that version of Sonic because he's different he's his own version of Sonic from the ova
It was stated that all his game versions are the same sonic
Unless you're talking about comics or TV shows
14:46 I think you mean other people's whatever is you did almost nothing
salty toxic hater
@@ricosimon1057 those are the three words that best describe this entire fucking video so try again I bring up a valid point you shut it down TBH you seem like the salty toxic hater clown
she is not a hater dude, she is just trying to disprove some of matpat's bad theories, because while matpat is a good theorizer, some of theories are very poorly thought out, have cherry picked evidence, or just don't make sence. All redqueenmiku2 is trying to do is show why some of his theories are not correct at all. And yes, she does give out snarky insults to matpat, but those aren't really supposed to be insults, and are just meant to be jokes that are meant to make the videos more entertaining, also, if you read the disclaimer she shows before the video starts, it says that the video is not an attack on the creator(including matpat).
@@superwhipbros6493 if you read the whole thing you would know it's an attack on his profession she specifies this is not an attack on matpat outside of his professin
its criticism of his profession, not an attack on it, it says that she only wants to point out the flaws in his theory, not hate on it.
9:25 it's f****** named after it
It's literally isn't
3:45 his friends amy is 12 and miles is 8 I don't know knuckles age
6:19 notice how all of these are multiple years after the video was released and how none of them actually give proper answers nice debunk using other people's evidence to fill a watch time and blocking out their names so they don't get any credit
Blocking their names?
Bro do you need glasses?
4:10 can you please just relax for 5 seconds geez
That was a joke dude, she is saying that to make the video more entertaining, not hate on mat pat.
@@superwhipbros6493 I disagree
@@superwhipbros6493 even if it was supposed to be a joke it's not even that funny and I'm a fan of insanity humor
Listen, if you don't like her humor thats fine, but don't act she is being serious about it, ok?
Mario is faster than Sonic, this should be common sense
Comp Sonic = irrelevant speed
Base Mario = Incomprehensible Speed
13:24 you can't use gameplay as a debunk it's a lazy and this genuine way of debunking something might I add that I just love how you blurt out people's names so they can't get any credit for the debunking lovely you stole other people's stuff congrats here's a gold star
I think you might've been high when typing all these comments cuz you ain't making any sense 😭
The names aren't even blured and even if they were what kind of credit do you want to get after so many years?
@@Chougui412and its kinda funny how he is contradicting himself by saying gameplay does not equal evidence and yet he defends two theorys(this one and mario is mental) which use gameplay as evidence....
5:23 notice how all of your comments never give a proper estimate for classic Sonic they just say he is shorter and that's the end of it for a debunk this is lazy you need to properly debunk it
👀... what are you yapping about?
14:05 yes yes I would and I don't think this person gets the points of a theory
No, no one even can react to Mach1 let alone the speed of light💀
And do you?
The speed comes from his shoes, hedgehogs cant run that fast
Hedgehogs also can't talk or be blue. Your move.
I mean, that's the entire plot of Sonic Labyrinth. But then Sonic Chronicles mentions that Super Speed is a natural ability of Hedgehogs in Sonics World, so I suppose the shoes could have something to do with it, but more likely they just boost him more similar to how Mario's hat boosts him.
@@RedQueenMiku2 being lightspeed is slow in fiction.There are characters that can run through time and space or have inaccecesible speed
@@faisali.chowdhiry821 sonic did do that
@@khalidsaeedali8756 that got debunked
10:59 because there are a lot of them and who the f*** cares enough
Never cook again 🗣️
7:30 STOP WISHING DEATH ON SOMEONE WHO'S ONLY CRIME WAS MAKING A BAD VIDEO!
Sonic IS slower than Mario
No
Are you ever not going to simp for Mario?
@@RealHyperHedgehog Honestly, I think Striker's just simping for MatPat.
@@MrAuthor3DS No. he’s made it clear that he hates MatPat because of Mario is Mental. He even simps for Mario on many other videos too.
@@RealHyperHedgehog Ah.