EngineLabs LS vs Coyote Shootout: The Winner Crowned
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2016
- The conclusion you’ve all been waiting for has finally arrived! It’s time to put up or shut up with our $9,999 LS versus Coyote engine build shootout. Who will we crown the victor - the big cubic inch pushrod LS or the screamer DOHC Coyote? Follow along as we reveal the results and break down the power delivery across the curve for each of these rival engines, considering efficiency and packaging.
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I used to be into that whole Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge thing...but then I grew up..and now I just love cars.
🤘😈
No rice fart cans big 3 forever
@@kevinkotchevar2339 v6's are fart cans too so u better have a v8 boah
I just buy the best deal.
I am proud to say I have done the same. I appreciate greatness no matter which brand. I realized I was causing myself to miss out on great engineering feats just because of the name plate. I love to see the manufacturers compete because it’s bringing out greatness for the public.
That being said... I think I just decided which engine is going in my project Camaro. 😎
As a 2013 Coyote owner I have to say the real winner is MURICA. Someone get me a beer.
'Murica
Welcomto America, get it yourself.
Rich Wood fuckin nerd..
I can drink to that haha
MithroJin I'm America we don't give our participation ribbons...
Love how the Ford vs Chevy argument will never die, it's awesome!
Love the Coyote but mad props to the LS engines!
In the end, we car guys and gals win.
I'm sitting here asking how a winner was crowned when they both died😂😂
I respect both but choose the LS for its simplicity. Easy to work on and cheaper to build.
Buy a coyote. Put blower on factory sealed coyote. Make 1000+HP (reliable and daily driven) to the wheels. About as simple as you get.
No a coyote won't make 1200hp reliable factory stock. You are hilarious.
@@mytruthslays1303 LOL!!!!! Right up until you crack the block trying to desperately make 1000 HP from it. Daily and reliable????? You must be smoking Hunter's crack.
you said it yourself CHEAPER 🤢🤢 thats why coyotes are faster you gotta pay the price!!!
@@DiabloMEX-AMERICAN669 your right man. I grew up a chevy guy but man when these coyotes go twin turbos they eat up everything. The chevys have to be built to keep up. Still love the head to head from chevy & ford
I'm a diehard blue blooded Ford guy, but I will admit that the LS is top of the heap. You can build any engine to make buckets of power, but how many of them have 6 bolt mains? Making power is one thing. Keeping the engine together and fitting that engine into a car is another thing. Lots of power in a STRONG, small(ish) package. That's a winning combo. Nobody can deny that.
BOT_ROCKET agreed
BOT_ROCKET top....u said it.....so there u go....ford blows!!!!!
You're not a 'blueblooded Ford guy' or else you wouldn't be saying dumb stuff like that, especially if you know anything about the Coyote. Taken straight from a Camaro page, perfectly summarizing how the Coyote will make more HP for less than an LS3: www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=457243&page=2
@ Michelle and Chainheart, you are both idiots. For one, I never said ford blows. Ford dominates the NASA American Iron series among plenty of other races. The GT has come back and taken LeMans again. Bottom line is that Ford builds better cars. However, since I'm not a 12 year old fanboi little child, I can admit that there other manufacturers do sometimes get something right. The Coyote is the first factory Ford engine that can compete with the LS, and how long did it take Ford to finally do that? The Coyote is a good engine, but in my post, i said, "smallish package." The coyote heads are nearly as big as the block. I doubt you can realistically build a coyote for as cheap as an LS. That article compares a junkyard 5.0 to a crate LS. These 2 quotes sum it up nicely. "Simply put, a brand new, performance-based Coyote engine can’t be built for under $10,000... The LS3 is definitely an easier engine to build new. They’re a simple in-block cam configuration and virtually everyone in the aftermarket makes something for LS engines."
Yes, the Coyote is a great engine, as are the Ford Ecoboost offerings. Ford engines are king when it comes to power per cube. However, when an unbiased builder wants as much power possible for less money, they often times go with an LS... in a Ford.
If you're blue blooded you should know how easy it is to find a junkyard $350 tall deck windsor, throw a carb and some AFR heads on it with a serious cam in a Fox and walk over anything LS.. which has been around decades before an LS. This marketing BS has made everyone forget everything that came before 1990
I'm a die hard Ford fan, but more than that I just love cars. The LS engine is one of the best v8s ever made.
You know ive always been you can make all brands fast kinna guy, but soon as i see first shit talker against Chevy " not you" some primal shit just starts spewing from me hah
Yeah i like chevy and fords just depends on what it is but u can't beat the new version of the l.s.7 427 double overhead cam 4 valves per cylinder engine 860 hp stock .but then again u can't beat a 70 high boy with the dana 60/80 for a 4x4 strongest truck ever built . u mite say i have a lot of good rigs just i like certain rigs for the purpose that it is for like i have a 70 high boy built up for off-road and a 79 chevy short box for looks for the street then a 68 chevy short box for a street truck with a stroked 454 tunnel ram . cars i have a lot of them restored and all ways building them just never sell them chevy , fords and mopars i have some really good collectors but been building and collecting for over 40 years . just give my kids a rig each one took a 67 chevy pu the other one took a 74 baja bug that was all deck out with 10 inch speakers custom body good for street or off road has the 72 bus transaxle
The coyote IS the greatest American V8 ever made.
dont kiss ass to the LS community The Coyotes are better and faster P
Kind of built from a Ford platform but updated . 1970 Ford came out with the 351 Cleveland . Good head flow . Too bad the Cleveland died in North America because of 🛢 oil arguments and emissions. Development would have been sweet for the 351 4V Cleveland .
The result is not surprising, but I would like to see a $20k build. Boost is were the Coyote platform really shines.
Need to do no budget seen coyote do #s well over720hp it all about the dollar
@@hilifesawmper4775I have to with terrible reliability 😁
Between the LS and Coyote, you’re gonna get an awesome engine regardless of what you choose. As someone who loves both ford and Chevy, I’m proud to wave both flags!
both good engines, i like a chevy engine in a chevy and a ford in a ford
1991tommygun finally.
1991tommygun...I say AMEN!...Brother!...I am a Old School kinda Ford Guy and I Believe that a Ford engine should be in a Ford Built Car even if its a Custom Built Ford Car with a upgraded engine swap! The same goes for the Chevys and Mopar Cars!...God Bless!
I believe that a Chevy should be in a Chevy and a Chevy should be a Ford
I think Chevy engine in Chevy and Chevy engine in ford
Why not include the Gen III HEMI in the comparison ? The 6.4 heads flow enough to support 700 hp as cast.
Hey it's the guy from engine masters
Edit: how tf did this get so many likes
Jack Carroll yes it’s Steve
No, it's Steve from Westech Peformance.
no its Steve from AllState
I literally said exactly this when I saw him
Also right around 0:58 mark, the guy with the long hair has done tuning in a couple episodes of Hot Rod Garage...I don't recall his name though.
The Ford is HUGE...lol! 10 feet of timing chains, LOL... The LS platform is FAR more adaptable to pretty much anything. From my moms Tahoe, to a motor home, to "stuff a V-8 swaps", to 1800HP sand rails, to BAJA1000 trucks, to 24 hour Le Mans, to experimental AIRCRAFT, to ((MARINE -7 outboard boat engines "awesome")) & on & on & on.
If you consider the (finds / deals) on LS parts & pieces everywhere on earth if you have patience, you can cut the cost per HP way down.
Or build a Civic with a coffee can size exhaust tip!
@EpiDemic117 its because pushrods are small for there displacement
I’d love to know where in the Sam Hell they found a $1400.00 LS3 😭🤣
Some truck im sure hehe
Got one with heads, decked and bored for 1500. It lives in my den. Can’t wait to build the damn thing.
Junkyards ftw
I said the same thing.. maybe that’s just short block..
Robert Duval works at Westech? Who knew.
Thanks. I knew that guy looked familiar! I'll bet people say that to him all the time. Well Old people do.
Well he was a restorer in Gone in 60 Seconds.
Dude I was thinking the same thing
BOO! That's Steve Brule!
I'm dropping the hammer Harry!
No you're not.
...(hammer dropped)
6.4 hemi vs LS3 would be a good one they have to stay N/A and stock displacement no strokers small over bores are allowed.
This.
That would be really cool. More of an apples to apples test since both engines are pushrod design and they have similar displacements.
why not the lt1?
+Devin Adams these two engines were picked because they are in two vehicles thay compete the 5th gen SS camaro and the last mustang GT. they wanted to see what you could do with a $10,000 budget. for both engines if they wanted to they could have gone a lot further with unlimited budgets.
+Duane Craig that's not why I said that....
chevy did a good job with the ls. ford is right behind them and i love it when two companies compete to make things better!
"Right behind them"? Ford is leading the way by far. They create more power with less displacement. The LS in this test had more than 70 more cubic inches. Shit, a Ford 2.7 V6 outpulls a 6.2 liter LS.
Ford is right behind them because Gm uses half to make just as much hp and still will always make more torque
@@jameslandon4126 Less cubic inches really means nothing when the physical mass of the assembled engine is still larger. In the long run, what good is it to say ‘i mAkE mOaR pOWeR oN lESs cUbIc inCh’ when your engine is larger, heavier and needs 1000 more rpm to make less power? And DOHC is undeniably less reliable than simple pushrod technology. That torque curve of the LS is flat as a kansas highway and it makes gobs of torque early in the power range. That translates out to a better feel and a more reliable design
@@prod.yayo5715 half of what again. Did you know in engine masters that the dohc engines made so much power they were outlawed in the next series lol!
@@WolfPackM98c your argument is based on bullshit buddy, heres why dohc engines are bigger take 4 example a sohc or an ohv 4 cylinder engine the dohc engine is bigger in head design by some margin at the same a no sohc or ohv engine is going to be comparable in power, power delivery to say for example a vtec or a vvt or vvl when it comes to same cc no matter what or where your 2valve engine comes from these engines rule because of this. For this reason the coyote is superior in design and efficiency. Yes the ls can ve had in bigger cubes but it cant compare at the same cubes if you can then take a 6.2 ls dohc it would outperform 6.2 ls this is wgat was said and by te way putting vvt on the dohc one will yield even power than the straight dohc.
How about the latest Chevy LT engine vs Ford's new mustang engine.
Couple monsters
Yea, that wouldn't even be a fair fight, that new coyote puts out over 700hp. #coyotepower
@@jeffreywillis3066 That's the predator engine, but regardless the coyote is an absolute monster from factory
@@weilandcock yeh voodo engine is good to or? the engine that gt350r has or?
LT is same as LS, All the fast Fords have one!
Coyote crate engine: $6900
Coyote control pack: $1500
Cobra Jet intake manifold: $850
Cobra Jet CAI: $330
BBK Long tube headers: $550
GOOD Ford tuner: $500
Sell the stock intake and control pack induction: -$500
Total spent: $10,130
That setup will put you at ~550+ HP, with no need to open the engine and 2 years of warranty. How the hell they spent $10k on a used engine for 500 HP is a joke.
Completely agree, seemed rigged towards the Chevy
I just looked at the parts list, $1800 towards rods and pistons that the Coyote didn't need, $500 for a stupid chrome oil pan #stupid #rigged
And nobody points out that they used CNC heads on the Chevy with the only power adding hard part on the Ford being cams... The stock internal and no BS beauty parts needed on either one really. I think people have forgotten how to build engines and just throw sponsor parts at them. You could make that power on the Ford by adding only an electric water pump and delete accessories. This is a joke. I am not sure about the LS as I don't have much experience with them.
They bought bare engine blocks and built them from there. Bought them both internals since a bare block doesn't have anything. CNC ported heads for the lS3 cost the same as the regular heads, trust me you can check on Summit. They bought manifolds for both and the point in getting at is whatever they did to one engine they did to another to make it fair.
@Milton Actually they didn't. Look at parts list at end. They used F-150 takeout engine. Despite cost as I am not doubting you on this, CNC LS heads are miles better than stockers. They also stated on Coyote build vid that they are using heavier rotating assembly which negates a small bit of the rev happy nature of them. Neither engine needed the parts thrown at them and if you look down a few comments you will see that even the Chevy guys are saying this is BS. I know personally that you can take a stock Mustang Coyote, not truck one rated at much lower power, and take off the accessories and add an electric water pump, long tubes, a solid tune from someone educated in these Fords and make the power they made.
Coyote is a great engine, but LS engines are just so much cheaper to build, you can buy a 6.0 block from a Chevy truck for $700 and put some ported 799 heads for another $700 and a cam for $300 and boooom +450hp torque monster that fits in a miata engine bay.
Stephen C. Not being funny at all. Please show me where I can get these for these prices.
Mike Rollins eBay has a LQ4 block for $675 and junkyards sell them for around the same price,, I also found a set of 799 heads for $400 on eBay. You can probably get better deals (like ported heads) on forums as well.
Stephen C. Thanks! I honestly haven't searched and those prices are very reasonable. I'll check it out!
I've seen a coyote swapped Miata... just saying.
put it up against the ls miata in a road course and get spanked due to the bulky unbalanced weight distribution not to mention lack of power. The ls is a smaller in physical size engine making more power and is able to sit farther back in the engine bay to improve weight distribution and handling which you wont have with that coyote crap miata
Have to admit, the LS-3 is one hell of a great engine, and so compact. Might have to hit the local bone yard and see what I can find. Thanks for sharing. Cheers from Motown!
If you get both of these in stock form and boost them what one holds more power and torque just curious
Good comparison. I will always take torque for a street car over high rpm horse power. Like many have stated, it would be cool to see an LS3 vs 6.4 Hemi. I think the results would be very close from 3000 to 6800 rpm's. Maybe if we all ask they will accommodate?
1967davethewave Hemis are shit all Chrysler products are.
Rob Roy that'd be a good build if the money was endless. Mopar can be wicked but takes a deep pocket.
Ive built both.... 6.4 would destroy an LS3. The problem with the Hemi is the cost... way more expensive than a GM Ls as we all know. Im more of a GM guy but people dont realize how good and strong those Hemis are.. they get a short stick due to the cars Dodge puts them in!
1967davethewave I
Frank289100 Why are you yelling?
So the bottom line is, the LS makes more power, at lower more useable rpms, in a smaller package, that's cheaper to buy, own and modify, in a simpler design with less things to go wrong.
There's no arguments here really.
Besides the biggest thing of all, displacement. Not to mention reliability
@@traxxasrcfun and ls still wins in that part to so u can push u stang back to the shop and get an ls
I know this is a year old, but was the LS376/525 not available at the time? Since you can just buy a crate motor from GM that is $8,500 and is making 525hp. So considering this is a custom job shouldn't their LS3 build have high gains?
I think that the LS will always be the mechanics motor. Easy to get parts for and easy to find any LS motor.
Very interesting comparison.
The smoother curves of the LS suggest it would be consistently a much smoother engine in almost any driving situation.
Correct?
Not going to rev higher than any new technology 5.0 ford mustang
foad 5981 I don’t think that’s what he asked at all😂😂
@@pophamlarry LS doesn't need to rev high. It gets its power from lower rpms amd brute size.
@@drewinhou Brute Size?Yawn.
Steve Brulé really summarized the benefits of the LS motor perfectly at the end.
Steve has Dyno hundreds if not thousands of engines and KNOWS with a valued honest opinion. Truly 30 years or more experience he is a scholar of knowledge and experience. Outstanding teacher for Old and young.....
Wonder if he keeps track of the motors after they leave?
first : it s not a ford
second : ls parts are way easier and way cheaper than the turd parts
Steve is the MAN !
You can make a killer engine out of either, it just depends on how much you are willing (able?) to spend but I have to agree... out of the box the LS is a better engine. I have an LSA in my CTS-V and so far it has been a fantastic engine.
mpg and durability/reliability is more important for most people then tq/power. personally I have a feeling the dual overhead coyote wins in both categories
Anyone notice the delay from when he gives it the full stick and engine rev's are not matching the full stick or push forwards on the handle on the dyno machine desk ? Editing or real word?
I'd take either one with a smile on my face!
So would we!!
*In Thanksgivng Day*
Thank you, GM, for the LS Engine, im grateful
You mean *crateful* hehehehe amen
Love me some Ls.. Choosing ford would just be "decrating"...👊🏻
you should be thanking Ford for the Ls bud it was a Ford engineerd motor so thanks Ford for screwing your selves just to keep the classic V8
"Thank you for providing us with the direct-port nitrous, uh, injection, four-core intercoolers, an' ball-bearing turbos, and titanium valve springs. Thank you."
Power Automedia, great video. PLEASE!! Do the exact same engine dyno comparison with a LS3, & a 6.4 392 Hemi.., or a Stroked but Left N/A 6.2 LS3 to 7Liters vs an N/A 6.1 370 Hemi stroked to 7Liters
I love the Coyote in my 2011 Ford. If you told me 20 years ago that a 360hp Ford v8 could move a big 4x4 truck with a crew cab down the road at 22mpg...I never would have believed it. Yet here we are. These are good times for v8 lovers. I love the LS and Ford Coyote. Both are awesome engines!
Hi there ...
If I needed the same engine of LS3
Would you be able to ship it to me ?
Thanks & Regards🍒
can you guys do a ls3 vs a hemi 6.1 that would be amazing!
It's been like forever for this video to come out.
Did you guys break thoughs engines in before running them on the dyno
What year was the f150 this 5.0 got taken out of? Because a 2013 f150 only makes 360 stock, which would bring hp over stock up.
Great test but predicable that more cubes equals more torque, I believe it's you Americans that like to say "There 'aint no replacement for displacement" and I agree. The great thing about the LS3 is the amount of capacity in such a small package, it will fit into some pretty small cars.The heads on a four valve motor are just huge with DOHC, Audi V8, BMW or Lexus 1UZ all massivly wide motors as is the Coyote. There's really nothing wrong with pushrod motors for street use, with less parts, lower friction and smaller packaging, just a lower redline. A lot of modern engines have turbos and pretty low redlines anyway so could easily be pushrod and 4 valve if necessary. How many people really nail the engine to the redline whilst going about their daily business apart from the boy racers?
We in Britain are limited with the cheaply available V8's to 4 valve motors which are just big and so very powerful so we have to use boost to make up the shortfall. Much easier to use a pushrod LS and if that's not enough you can still boost!
By the way, pushrods are not quite as crap as many would think, I've seen a Ford kent 1300cc pushrod motor that will rev to 13,000 rpm! yes, you read that right! Ok, so it took a lot of racing trickery and money but it can be done.
Frank Smith
There are some “small” displacement V8s that spin astronomically high. There’s a video floating around of a old Nova with a 265 cid V8 that revs well over 10k... supposedly to 13k. I can’t verify the rpm, but it sounds like it’s revving faster than a NASCAR engine, and those hit 10+k rpm.
Ford is going back to the Pushrods on their new Gasoline Super Duty trucks. Mainly for reliability, lower CG, less weight, less complexity, & better torque.
Cool, they managed to build a Coyote that makes LESS torque than stock? WTF? Who are these guys? Let Kaase or Accufab have a shot at this build. They at least know what the hell they are doing.
Let SAM racing have a shot at the LS to see what happens...oh wait they're on a budget.
It made less torque because they put big cams in it.
I suggest you look into what increased duration does to torque curves.
LS3 drops into a Miata and looks factory. So compact!
How tf does a ls3 look factory in a miata. It’s like 3x the size.
@@Star.Chaser The LS3 is only slight larger than the Miata I4 and the weight difference compared to an aluminum block LS3 is very small. Having 3 times the displacement doesn't mean it's going to be 3 times larger physically. Pushrod V8's are insanely compact, which partly why they are such a popular engine to swap into nearly everything. They don't have massively large heads with lots of cams and timing chains.
czcams.com/video/LAcXtvhqTaY/video.html
I drive an LS3, 2011 Camaro SS daily and love it!
I completely agree the ls3 wins but there is something about how high a coyote revs that makes it my favorite engine
Now take that same LS3 and put a 4.8 crank in it and you'll hear a sweet revving motor spinning at 8000 rpms and 600 N/A hp
I was just reading about that in Car Craft magazine. cost was a little over $12k for their build
+christians131 i would have expected more to hit 8000
It could be done much cheaper but everything except the 4.8 crank was bought new
It's not really the bottom end that hurts the LS when it comes to revving, it's the fact that the valvetrain in a pushrod engine is MUCH heavier than with an overhead cam engine. Now, you CAN make a pushrod V8 rev well beyond 8000 RPM but you have to spend a LOT of money upgrading the valvetrain to make it stronger and lighter. Still, I DO love short stroke, over square engines, and putting the shorter crank in WILL make the engine rev higher easier because of lower piston velocities, and there IS a point where shortening the stroke is necessary in order to allow the engine to rev higher, but in the case of the LS3, it's the valvetrain that limits how high it can rev.
You guys should keep the cubic inches more similar. Like use an aluminum 5.3... that is a lot closer cubic inch to cubic inch
Any port work to the heads or manifold?
Isnt the ls3 like a 2nd or 3rd variation of that chevy motor? I dunno seems odd if they are comparing a newer vs older engine but im not a chevy guy i know that the 5.0 are up to a gen 3
I want to see these two engines again without any limits. Stroker, heads
, cam, everything but no power adders.
I think John Hennessy is the man to see about that.
+Jared Bossart I don't think that John Hennessy would do something like that. The only one who could do this is the guys from Engine Masters from Motor Trend Channel.
True...hennessey builds both ford and gm...and he sells both...so id imagine he'd rather make sure both sell.
Hennesey is good at doing basic bolt-ons and selling them at ridiculous prices to rich folks
Yeah, bro. Venom GT? 1,200hp/270mph, HA! I build those in 5 minutes for $5.
Tell me how the coyote made the almost the same power it would’ve made to the wheels through a manual
What about horsepower/weight ratio and the physical dimensions of the engine?
I would like to see an engine from each of the big 3 compared using the same era of design release. For instance, compare the LT to the coyote to the mopar 6.4L.
Engine external dimension and weight would also be interesting stats, that LS motor with the OHV design fits a tight light package
LS is about 23inchs wide at the valve cover. Coyote is about 30. Both engines weigh about the same. Coyote block is slightly narrower and shorter. Aside from the dohc they are pretty comparable. Keep in mind, motor swaps are more then just how wide the valve covers are.
You don't see coyote swapped Camaros do you? Lol
No but I've seen a Camaro with a 20b in it run 7.9 at 183 and damn that blew my mind
Just wait i have one in the works
Facts !!!!
They would wrather put them in corvettes lmao
because the fox body is better lighter better suspension better weight transfer thats why chevy guys use the ford mustang...there both good engines ...me I'm old school and do crazy shit like i built a 400m ford with 4bbl cleveland 4v heads that runs a rons fuel injection on alky in a sand drag toyota truck i put many chevys on the trailer even big blocks
Can we run Fords 5.2 againes the LS3 stock for stock then modified to equal numbersor close
What are the actual power numbers from the vehicle the 5.0 came out of? 385hp and 387ftlbs our of the 2015 f150 it came out of.
Would of been cool if you guys weighed the assembled longblocks to see the difference. Maybe try it with an LT1 now?
William Stewart 4 what? anyone knows the coyote is heavier
Rodolfo Munoz I'm a technical person, "it's heavier" doesn't cut it for me.
William Stewart on their website they have the weights listed and I believe it was 415 pounds and the coyote was 430 pounds so they were close with the ls3 being a bit lighter.
Duane Craig Thank you, I figured it would be somewhat close.
William Stewart I think he might be right I was under the impression it was 420 LS and coyote 445..... yeah it's close it's just you'd expect an way "larger " motor to be alot heavier
hp per ci isnt massively important, but hp per lb does
I've never understood why people care so much about the first one and totally neglect the second, makes no sense
Thanks for the wonderful video gentleman I liked it a lot I always like seeing Westcoat Dino Motors
I'm having a hard time finding a ls3 bare block for $14xx.00 like on this video. Anyone has a link or know where they bought that bare block from ?
I'll keep my Chevy powered by Chevy and my Fords powered by Ford.
Built ford tuff with all chevy stuff
@@benlancaster6535 Built Ford Proud by the Chevy crowd!
That's right guys, there's no finer ambition in life than being cheap.
@@benlancaster6535 What a load of BS.
Lets bring the 5.4 Cobra Jet motor in this battle.... best motor Ford has ever built.
Lets bring the lt5
Which is more fuel efficnient?
What is the stock compression ratio for the ls3? If you upped compression in one and not the other, I believe it was unfair. The torque on the coyote is way off also. I don't know if you used the wrong cams or your tuner can't use the variable cam timing correctly.
now time to do a LT1 vs Coyote shootout!!
Why? Because Ford needs to go agents a 1980's engine to win?
Mutt Head what?... no because GM made a newer LT1 engine?..
Yea annoyingly GM named their new V8s after the old iron block before the LS. Doesn't' make much sense to me. So now there is the LT1 and LT4. LT1 is in the current corvette and new Camaro.
Oh. Thanks GM....
why not just do the lt1 vs the voodoo 5.2?
The two engines are equivalent. Multiply the size of the engine by the RPM it did it at, then divide it by the horsepower. The resulting numbers are different by less than 10%. All engines are going to deviate by (compression ratio)/(Compression ratio -1)
The LS is cheaper to build or modify, is physically more compact, and just as fuel efficient (if not moreso).
6.2 liters yet makes more power from half as many intake and exhaust halves, 1 cam phaser instead of 4, 1 cam instead of 4, and a timing chain that miles shorter. Yet it's just as compact in external dimensions, weighs the same or slightly less, and bolts up to a dozen different transmissions. There's a reason the LS swap is dogged for being TOO common and there's a reason most guys dismiss a 5.0 Coyote swap due to the costs involved.
You can make up any arbitrary calculation you want, but there is an inherent advantage to pushrod V8's. It's why the Ford guys were so hyped up when the Godzilla 7.3 showed up even though it was only intended for the Super Duty trucks. They secretly know that there are huge advantages to 16-valve pushrod V8's. Ford engineers admitted they picked a 16v pushrod design because it was more fuel efficient for the torque and horsepower it would produce compared to OHC designs.
@@wernerziegler6709 I agree, but hear me out.
-- On an LS, the lower operating speed makes transmission shift quality better. The lower RPM makes the system safer and more responsive. The higher average port velocity and angularity does make fuel economy and combustion better on average. Plus, you can use the same cylinder head for either side.
-- Trust my calculation. When an engine scores low, that just means it has modification potential. The bigger the engine, the badder it'll be. A 6.2 is 20% bigger than a 5.0. That's the mindset for that equation. It's why I like big blocks with symmetric port heads. The new 632 is built that way.
-- That said, there are reasons to like the coyote.
-- It has straight raised ports, so the width of the torque peak for any given camshaft setup will be wider and cooler running.
-- The headers don't get mangled with the spark plugs, which is nice sometimes.
-- The spark plugs are kept under sealed coils, which is nice from a maintenance standpoint.
-- With a VVT delete, the coyote would be a very nice road-race engine.
-- If you grenade a camshaft somehow, a DOHC engine will not destroy the block.
Ford guy here, but a 6.2L vs 3.0L? Amazing the coyote came so close. Try supercharged on same engines if you can. That would be interesting.
Not really amazing in any way shape or form. The Coyote had twice as many intake and exhaust valves as well as independent variable intake and exhaust valve timing. Not only that, but the Coyote engine is physically larger than the 6.2L LS3. The LS3 curb stomped the 5.0 Coyote using 1 cam instead of the Coyote's 4 cams, 16 valves instead of 32, and 1 cam phaser instead of 4. All while doing it for less money and using the same amount of fuel.
One thing everyone keeps missing when it comes to use-able rpm range is you need the rpm range to be proportional to the min/max rpm. Consider an extreme case where one engine is operated from 1000 to 4000 rpm and another is operated from 10,000 to 13,000 and consider what that would mean when driving the cars..
To put things in perspective say your gearing has you starting at 30 mph at the starting rpm. With the 1000-4000 rpm motor you will be hitting 120 mph in the same gear at 4000 rpm. With the 10,000 to 13,000 motor you will only be hitting 39 mph. That is a HUGE difference in real world performance.
To compare average hp between engines you need to always make sure the ratio between starting rpm and maximum rpm is the same.
If 4000-7800 rpm is where the Coyote engine makes power then you need to be comparing average hp in this range to the average hp from 3500-6800 rpm from the LS3.
The ratio of max rpm divided by starting rpm is 1.95 with both 4000-7800 and 3500-6800.
Should have spent the money on stroking the ford and chevy. The rods and piston were a Waiste of money on both other then evening out compression. The stock internals could take those hits. Strokem, change cams, and intake and letem eat.
mean gene i couldnt agree more especially from an n/a prospective i wouldve put better heads in the coyote and the gt500 plenum and intake manifold
The one thing I took away from this? Is seeing the Dyno graph for the Coyote, and how it just kept wanting to climb. Those heads need a bigger block under them.
Goldmarble a 427 aluminum block it can make +650 on stock lol
@@iraqirestoration2991 650 on stock isn't really impressive anymore
@@erikcapozzi3425 yeah it is, especially if its reliable horsepower
which can handle more boost? which is more durable?
So I can get a used coyote, which makes less power and is more expensive, or I can get a new ls3 with forged internals for cheaper, and make more power?
This was published in 2016, with the 2nd generation Coyote out for two years -- and that motor stock makes 400 torque stock -- two more pound feet than their built motor? I'm skeptical of the tuning choices and or parts.
I think you are right about the tuning and/or parts choices. Like some else said I think they actually handicapped the LS by comparing new parts to used ford parts. For $10k they could have gotten more out of an LS.
They did the test with a first gen Coyote -- for 10k they could have crushed both engines they built.
@@mjobusch had they spent more wisely they could have crushed both engines with a used LS too!
That's true -- I'm a fan of both -- I have a 2015 Mustang, so obviously a Coyote fan, but yes -- the LS is also an amazing choice -- got hit last week, and waiting to see what happens insurance-wise -- I'm considering a switch to an LT (Stingray), though with the cylinder deactivation and direct injection, I don't know if I want to go that route -- and I'm a little "meh" on the Corvette styling - but maybe that's okay.
@@mjobusch Honestly now.....you don't think it is at least a little embarrassing for Ford that decades old Chevy motors are still largely the motor of choice and still giving new top shelf Ford motors problems?
I'm curious about something. On the gains over stock category, he spoke of the 2013 Mustang's advertised power numbers, but the motor they used was from a F-150 and it's advertised numbers are 360 hp. What gives?
same motor. They changed the cam and crap, so there's not any difference
F-150 motor runs 10.5:1 compression, Mustang 11:1.
It's not just the cams, intake, and tune that are different.
Also, you don't need to swap the oil pump gears on a NA Coyote, that's wasted money. Stock internals are good till like 700.
if you would have read in the article both engines are 11:1 they just used a f-150 block
www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/dyno-testing/ls3-vs-coyote-budget-shootout-results-the-winner-is/
Richard Head different heads? I know that's what Chevy did
I am a huge Ford fan, and their V-8's are in about 75% of my vehicles. What has always disturbed me is the design of the modular engine. The decision to make it 3.937" bore spacing is a big limit. This limits the total bore diameter per cylinder. Thus to make larger displacement engines you have to add stroke. Overhead cams motors typically are designed around large bore, short stroke (high RPM) motors. So we have the weird case that the valve train is designed for high RPM, but the engine is "under square" (stroke larger then bore). Further, the modular engines are huge with respect to outside dimensions. Conversely the LS has a bore spacing of 4.4". Can be made in large displacements and reasonable stroke lengths. When ford moved from the 302/351W bore spacing of 3.480 inches to the 3.937" of the modular, IMHO was a mistake.
Really shows the genus design of the LS. Fantastic compromise for an ohv motor.
I see a lot of people crying over the GM's displacement advantage. Last time I looked, nobody is stopping Ford from making a larger engine. They decided to substitute displacement with cams, complexity and miles of timing chain. There is still no replacement for displacement. GM brings it with the LS engines, Chrysler brings it with the Hemi, and for the fourth decade in a row, Ford keeps bringing a knife to a gun fight....
😂
LMAO@ Miles of timing chain.
So true, ill always stick to cam in block pushrod engines instead of these fancy fanangled DOHC or SOHC engines
So you're saying BMW, Mercedes, Audi, all 'bring knives to a gunfight' because they have overhead cams? Get real..
Chainheart Machine Theyre fine untill they need matinence and then your left wishing you never bought it because it cost you your entire life savings and your retirement fund to fix it, so unless you enjoy shelling out franklins like theyre pennys dont buy an expensive euro car
The one thing that is never seen, the RB26DETT (Skyline GT-R) VS 2JZ (Supra) both Japanese legends
Simple answer: 2JZ holds a slight edge due to the increased displacement.
Sure, you can stroke the RB to 2.9L (Largest I saw on 5 second search), but you can also stroke the 2JZ to 3.5L.
Both seem to be capable of similar power, but again, I keep seeing the 2J to have a slight advantage.
Just did some digging after running into a term I had never heard of before: Grouting.
Grouting is the act of filling the water jackets in the block, to strengthen the block. I head that people have witnesses factory RB26 blocks splitting at around 680 kw to the wheels (910 hp).
www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/429446-strengthening-a-rb26-block/
Meanwhile, 2JZ blocks? People are saying they can make 1100-1400 hp, before you need to look at grouting, or reinforcing the block.
www.supraforums.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-536496.html
So, I think that's really starting to mean, to me, that the 2JZ is really, the stronger of the two.
How about the Inline six motors like Ford 300 and Chevy 292 for a fresh up and power builds?
What did you guys end up doing with the coyote engine anyways?
finally!! both are great engines. each of them has their advantages lol
Who cares either way. You go with what ever floats your boat. Both are well engineered engines. The LS engines were designed to be a smaller package and easier to maintain than the Coyote. During the histories of both auto makers, Ford has always tailored their engines for a specific set of parameters and chassis be damned because they didn't always work out all that well.
If you're a true motor head than you really don't care much about the name on the engine, only the specs and how ir reacts to modifications.
If you're a true motor head than you really don't care much about the name on the engine, only the specs and how ir reacts to modifications.
SO TRUE...... ANDS THATS WHY YOU'LL FIND MORE LS engines in built fords than coyotes in everything else combined.
Well the ls3 engine is over a liter bigger, I should hope it would make more power. By the way, the Coyote makes about 1.69hp per cubic inch whereas the LS only makes about 1.48hp per cubic inch.
I have an Engine Masters magazine from 8 - 9 yrs ago that has an article featuring a junkyard 5.7 HEMI pulled from a Ram. With nothing more than a cam swap, intake swap and headers they made over 500 hp . The heads and bottom end were not touched.
This is more of a which is the better bang for the buck than which is the better engine.
The LS3 is a bigger engine.
If the Coyote was available as a 6.2 liter or the LS as a 5.0. this test would look a lot different.
Fortunately for the prospective buyer the LS engines are an easier package to fit under the hood and offer fantastic performance for the money.
That Coyote would work well in a mid-engine sports car.
Coyote is the bigger engine in size
I really liked your test . It was pretty fair . But the cost is a factor . In the dual overhead cam motor is expensive . If I was building a naturally aspirated car . And wanted to keep it simple. I would go with the LS . A force of money was an object than that be a different story
I actually thought OHV was a dated technology in the past - kind of blows my mind how GM was able to take the OHV pushrods to the modern era & still give modern DOHC 4v VVT designs a headache.
The Chev is an amazing engine. A four valve head though and VVT is what is going to come to all of us. It will be due to emissions and so on. Consider that if you go to a four valve/cylinder head you are able to increase the valve area by 40%. The valves though are smaller so you are able to use a more aggressive cam profile. This is a major advantage over an OHV set up. So how Chevy overcame it all and did so well, is phenomenal.
I would like to see an episode like this but with boost, Coyote vs LT. I own a 17 ZL1 and know that a boosted coyote is no joke. They respond very well and make crazy power for cheap.
Costs more.
Weighs more.
Takes up more space.
Less power.
Less torque.
Built Ford Tough.
This editors of the publication did something odd here... while I have no doubts the LS series would win an HP war their facts on the motor and mod choices are odd.
The LS3 actually weighs more, Ford rates their motors with full accessories, Chevy doesn't. Coyote is wider and a smidgen taller but the LS3 is a longer motor. A Coyote will make 500+ whp without pulling the heads. Coyote will def be more expensive to mod.
Well since the 5.0 is a new motor and the LS has been out for almost 20+ years now they are easier to come by cheaper to buy and cheaper to build. In 10 years this wont even be an argument.
ShinSpeedX wrong. The engine weights are posted on this channels site. The coyote motor weighs more
Ford builds shit full stop
You forgot makes more horsepower per cubic inch
Actually revs past 6k
Isn't an old ass pushrod design from 1950
:)
Now put boost on them...
So a 6.2 with a cam and headwork vs a 5.0 with rods/pistons and cam. I’m not sure what this is supposed to compare because of the huge displacement difference.
How about a 6.2 hemi vs lsx 6.2 vs fords offering with power?
I want to see the 5.8 out of the Shelby vs the LS.
grabber 5.0 no homo
I want to see the LS7 out of the z06 against the 5.8.
And i want to see the ls9 out of the zr1 vs the 5.8...
I love the vette vs mustang arguments. What I never hear from you guys is vette vs ford GT since thats top of the line vs top of the line lol
Thatone_guy thats like me wanting to compare the f450 vs the 3500HD! You know the Chevy guys would bitch so fast! You would never compare them because they aren't in the same class. Get the point yet Chevy guys?!
ls smaller, lighter, cheaper. no brainer.
the fact is you build the car u enjoy chevy vs ford vs dodge vs imports i love cars trucks suvs when come down to it in racing it the driver too but good video guys love it
All you need is one cam not four. 16 valves not 32. So much you can do for the LS without breaking the bank!
Is anyone surprised? The chevy small block has always been a winner
Fuck yr. Chev all the way.
you better check that again. sbf has always made more power. chevy has always had to make more cubic inch. hell we have 306's running 5 sec 1/8 mile times. bet you wont see a 305 chevy running that.
@@tremail12 WHATTTTTTTT?! BITCH Ford had to make a fucking V10 to try and compete with the chevy 8.1 and STILL COULDN'T COMPETE. I've never seen someone say something so completely wrong and be serious. How do you look at yourself in the mirror knowing you're that full of shit?
@james robinson - Not always, Bro. Shelby GT 350 Mustang with a little 289 beat the snot out of the bigger 327 Corvette for SCCA B Production Championship 3 years in a row - 65,66 and 67.
@@tremail12 how about a Chevy DZ 302.
The LS motor was revolutionary. It redefined small block V8's.
@fitty6pickemup is that why owners of older mustangs are replacing their Ford motors with Chevy LS motors?
I love comparisons, and they said it true in here, if the coyote had more displacement it would take the chart. Inwould like to see similar displacement for these tests though!!
The evolution and development of the "crate motor" by the manufacturers has been a huge benefit to the people that rebuild or restore cars. The GM "LS" motors are light years ahead of Ford and Chrysler and it would be great if the other 2 would step up their game. The LS motors are well conceived, versatile and have tremendous aftermarket support which translates to more bang for the buck. Ford's Coyote motor is a jaw dropping platform but the DOHC aspect adds a degree of complexity that perhaps scares off the average builder/restorer along with fewer options available in the aftermarket.
Both engines are amazing. But for real the best is the stock for stock run. The funny part is there is no point to half the mods they did if you are running NA on a coyote. waste of money to make it equal the LS money they spent.
Absolutely agree, they could have made those numbers on a stock coyote and a tune, maybe camshafts.
Waldolane; They paid $3000.00 for a used F-150 engine and had to rebuild from the ground up! The Chevy engine was all new.
Well that makes it even worse, I assume this one of those scientific studies where someone paid on advance for the outcome they wanted?
Waldolane That’s right, shoot the messenger when you don’t like the results. The reasoning of a loser. Fake news, right?
I think you lost me Ron, are you saying it's fake news that it was pointless to put rods and pistons in a naturally aspirated coyote? I have an LS swapped 90 Silverado and three Fords, so I'm not a Chevy hater. I'm just saying they spent all that money on the coyote just to make it look like it needed the parts to make power, when it obviously doesn't.
I don't care Ford or Chevy both engines are amazing
When 2 companies compete to make a superior product, you know who wins?
The consumer. Competition always brings out the best in those competing. This can be applied to damn near anything.
As far as my new edge build this was helpful. I've been teetering between the 2 for a couple of years lol.
WHAT WAS THE WEIGHT DIFFERENCE FRO EACH ENGINE?