The BIZARRE MEDIA CONTROVERSY Between Tennessee and Florida (1985)
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
- During the 1985 NCAA football season, the Tennessee Volunteers and Florida Gators were tied for first place in the SEC standings. That's when Tennessee officials began campaigning for a bizarre request. Their wish? Move Florida to the bottom of the standings, as though they didn't exist. And the end result was absolutely strange, to say the least. This is the story behind the drama of the 1985 college football season between the Knoxville News-Sentinel and the Knoxville Journal
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#ncaa #tennessee #florida #football #cfb #sports #highlights #1985 #volunteers #vols #gators #floridagators #tennesseevolunteers
The point is invalid, Florida wasn’t even eligible for first place. Florida couldn’t have won the SEC.
Go Gators
He didn't even attempt to make that point; he even said in the video they were ineligible. His point was that it was silly to put them at the bottom of the standings.
What an interesting story. I remember this when I was in college but never with this level of detail. Fantastic job story-telling and laying out the context. Great job!
Definitely a burner account
This is giving me 2014 Big XII vibes when Baylor and TCU both finished as co-champions even though Baylor won 61-58 in the comeback game. The Big XII went away from there one true champion motto to try and get someone (mostly TCU who didn’t deserve it) in the first college football playoff. Ohio State got in the final spot and the Big XII got karma handed to them.
This is why rankings that matter being decided in the media is a bad idea.
The arbitrary rankings have consistently screwed small schools and conferences. That's why I kinda welcome the coming restructuring. Hopefully we can get the BCS series fixed soon too.
Excellent video. I clearly remember that season. Tennessee beat #2 Miami oh that Sugar Bowl to give Oklahoma the title. In 2012 Ohio State went 12-0 but due to probation, 3rd place Wisconsin played in the conference championship game. In 2014 Baylor and TCU tied for the Big 12 championship. Baylor won the head to head. Yet the big12 declared them co champions. I wonder if other local papers did similar things in those cases
Having a coaches' poll is a bad idea as well. After the '95 Gators lost the national title game to Nebraska, Vols coach Phil Fulmer voted them something like 5th out of sheer spite. The Vols were 3rd in the final poll BTW.
@@anthony0358 i remember there were petitions and the like going around about OSU playing in the national championship over 1-loss alabama
@@SkunkApe407 lmao the BCS has been gone for 8 years, bud...jfc
Charlie Pell was also responsible for Clemson going on probation in the early 80s.
Maybe this is why Steve Spurrier said, “You can’t spell Citrus without UT.”
Still one of the all-time best sports zingers ever. Vol fans had no comeback for that one.
Still liked the Georgia one better
"Coach, Georgia is 15 ahead in the all-time series. Will you be around to tie it?"
"I don't know, 15 years is a long time"
Lmao nice work with the Bowling For Soup-1985, I laughed pretty good at that
The college rankings by the AP, etc. are IMO the biggest scam in the history of sports. They're so easy to rig, it's not even funny.
Yep, and in the past a lot of "national championships" were purely political. Which is why I never understand people who say "the old way with the bowls was better" than a playoff. Get bent. A playoff isn't perfect but it's a hell of lot better than voting for the best 2 teams and letting them play; and back before the BCS you might not even get #1 and #2 to play in the bowl, so the #1 team might be Alabama and go the Sugar Bowl and #2 is USC and they go to the Rose Bowl, and Alabama gets to play #20 ranked whoever in the Sugar and win the NC.
@@ResidentialEvil Other sports do it somewhat better. Basketball has March Madness, hockey the Frozen Four, etc. I mean, I'm from Europe, where football, soccer and rugby have common roots, so I get it that you can't play a tourney where you play every other day (this is difficult enough in soccer with UCL and normal league play, the World Cup and any international match, etc.), but if we can get in rugby union and soccer a form of playoff on the way after a round robin competition, so should college football, even if it potentially means having the national championship game a week after the Superbowl.
That's why the news sentinel is still there and the journal is gone.
I'm glad to find that out 😀Also glad YT put emojis back. I guess there must've been a backlash.
Big fan, JaguarGator9 and watch your videos every day man! But you didn’t have to do my Buckeyes dirty like that 😂😂
Yes, yes he did. I would even argue that everybody is morally obligated to hate that particular team and school.
@@DolFan316 nah, TTUN is worse
I was living in Gainesville in '85, and I can remember right after all the news of the rules violations dropped the Gators had a home game. I can't remember who they played, but one of the students had one of the best signs I've ever seen at a Football game. It read: We have 107 Reasons why we're gonna kick your ass!
I don’t get it….
My mind is blown. To have a 10 team conference and only play 2/3rd's of the available field. I'm glad the current SEC [checks notes] nevermind, that checks out.
"What if we took Florida and we pushed them somewhere else?"
That's a fantastic idea honestly
I agree we don't Florida anymore that state has gotten more.bats it crazy,let another country deal with this terrible state.
@@dustinsindledecker154 And yet EVERYBODY IN AMERICA comes here from November to April, and outside of Texas we've had the most people relocate here in the past 5 years. Weird!
Finally jaguargator8 lives up to the name and does a video on UF. Go Gators
There was some precedent for this. This happened right after Clemson's probation in the ACC, also for violations committed while Charley Pell was the coach there. During Clemson's probationary period, the ACC changed the rules to not only not allow them to win the ACC title, it wouldn't even count Clemson's games in the standings. Clemson was allowed to win the ACC on probation in '82, but then was listed in last place in the conference even when it went 9-1-1 again in 1983. They went 7-0 in the ACC on the field but none of the games counted in the standings.
Florida got busted in '84, and the SEC vacated their title and sent runner-up LSU to the Sugar Bowl. The SEC considered doing to Florida what the ACC had done to Clemson, and just not count any of Florida's games in the standings. But it was voted down. Most standings I remember seeing listed Florida in first place but put a note at the bottom that said Florida was ineligible for the SEC title, which it was, and which it deserved to be. A lot of the players Pell had bought were still on the team.
Florida got put back on probation a few years later, and in 1990, Tennessee won the SEC at 6-1-1 while ineligible UF was 7-1. But few took them seriously that time--the teams played and the Vols beat them 45-3 that year.
Florida did beat Bama in Tuscaloosa, though they weren't Bama under Gene Stallings yet (started 0-3)
This was also done when Texas A&M was banned from winning the Southwest Conference, TV, and the postseason in 1994... a&m finished 6-0-1 in conference and 10-0-1 overall. Their tie was to SMU. Thanks to this, Texas, Baylor, Rice, Texas Tech, and TCU were co-champions at 4-3 in conference. Texas Tech represented the SWC in the Cotton Bowl even though Texas, Baylor, and TCU had better overall records.
This reminds me of the situation in the Big Ten in 2010. While the very next year they would go to divisional play with the addition of Nebraska, in 2010 they were still 11 strong, which proved to be the most awkward number. One fewer, and you have a 9-game conference schedule with full round-robin, as the Pac-10 did at the time. One more, and you have a conference championship game. But with 11, there was no choice but to have no CCG while also not having everyone play each other.
On October 2, #11 Wisconsin traveled to East Lansing and lost to undefeated #24 Michigan State. Two weeks later, the Badgers knocked off #1 Ohio State, and then followed it up by knocking off #13 Iowa (who already had a non-conference loss), leaving Michigan State alone atop the Big Ten standings. Iowa still had to play both MSU and OSU, but OSU and MSU didn't have to play each other. The following week, the Hawkeyes knocked off the Spartans, which could create a triangle of Iowa > MSU > Wisconsin > Iowa if they were to win out, but they were unable to do the same to the Buckeyes and in fact dropped three straight to end the regular season.
This left three teams at 11-1 overall and 7-1 in the Big Ten: Michigan State, Wisconsin, and Ohio State. While there is no head-to-head sweep, it still seems like Michigan State deserves that bid; they're 1-0 against the other two to Wisconsin's 1-1 and Ohio State's 0-1. But because of the lack of a game between MSU and OSU, it instead went to the rankings, with #5 Wisconsin going to the Rose Bowl and #6 Ohio State to the Sugar Bowl while #9 Michigan State, which started the year unranked unlike OSU and Wisconsin (and Iowa, and Penn State), had to go to the Citrus Bowl, or Capital One Bowl as it was known at the time.
I'm getting my years mixed up, was that year of the MSU hail mary against Wisconsin or was that 2011?
@@reidcraig3739 2011. OF course, Wisconsin would get their revenge in the conference title game.
Actually a more similar situation would happen 2 years later in 2012. Ohio State and Penn State were both ineligible for the postseason. That put Wisconsin, a 5 loss team, in the conference title game against Nebraska despite losing to both OSU and PSU. Wisconsin would win the conference, throttling Nebraska 70-31 with two RB's going over 200 yards in Montee Ball and Melvin Gordon while James White rushed for 150.
@@chriskay1449 I remember that year, ngl Indiana had a shot to be in the mix. I know Wisconsin still beat up the Hoosier, but they lost like 5 games in the last few minutes of the game (Ball State, Navy, Ohio State, Michigan State, and Northwestern). Still these games would have least gotten them into a bowl game.
whats also interesting... the news-sentinel is still around while the journal isnt
37 Years Ago
Ah yes, a Tennessee-Florida spat that I didn't know about. Right along with Florida luring Doug Dickey back after the Vols played the Gators in the Gator Bowl in 1970, Tennessee spearheading the drive to strip Florida of the 1984 SEC Championship, which led to a rowdy Florida crowd when Tennessee came to Gainesville in the game mentioned, "Faxgate", in which disgraced former Vol assistant Jack Sells faxed copies of the Vols' playbook to Ron Zook in 1991, Peyton Manning's inability to beat Florida, Steve Spurrier's (from down the road in Johnson City, TN) constant needling of Phil Fulmer, Jabar Gaffney's non-catch to sink the Vols in Knoxville in 2000, the "duck don't pull trucks" quote that came back to bite the Gators in 2016, some that I have forgotten about and there will be more...
I don't know if anybody remembers the April fools prank the media did with Tennessee and Texas back in the mid 80s where a story came out saying that Texas was taking the name UT and the color orange and trademarking it, taking them away from Tennessee. Not everyone realized it was a joke and it created an uproar for a day
Florida had too much funny business going on in the '80s. Even Charley Pell's replacement, Galen Hall, had some of his own mess (he denies helping with a player's child support payments) that got Florida bowl banned in Steve Spurrier's 1st season as head coach there in 1990.
And cost them an SEC title. UF went 7-1 in the SEC in 1990, but wasn't eligible. Tennessee got the title at 6-1-1. But it also beat the Gators 45-3.
Florida, the last I heard, still has a banner at Florida Field that says "First in the SEC 1984 1985 1990," honoring their three teams that won or shared the title but were ineligible.
Could you do a video on SMU and the death penalty? And how Miami has avoided receiving similar sanctions despite worse "alleged" violations?
There's a reason for this: the imposition of the "death penalty" on SMU so damaged the Southwestern Conference that the conference actually collapsed by the 1990's. As such, the NCAA doesn't *DARE* to threaten the use of the "death penalty" unless under extremely dire circumstances.
@@Sacto1654 the conference collapsed because every school except Rice got hit with sanctions. Then Arkansas jumped to the SEC and then the Big12 formed in 1996. My understanding of Miami though, is that they just get the occasional "slaps on the wrist". And the allegations against them in the late 90s and early 2000s involve prostitutes for players, covering up drug abuse (all the way back when Michael Irvin was there). If a school deserved the death penalty it was Miami in the 90s
@@Sacto1654 There's a lot of debate as to whether the SMU death penalty caused the SWC to collapse. The bigger causes very likely were: The NCAA vs Oklahoma Supreme Court decision that opened up the wild west for schools and conferences to get their own TV deals, and the University of Texas' greed and pettiness; Texas was very likely planning to leave the SWC ever since the Conference added Houston, as Texas has always been scared of Houston and not wanted to be alongside them; see how they took Baylor over Houston for the Big 12.
@@rowdycmoore explains why their leaving the big 12
Seriously? Probation didn't exist? Which bowl game did the Gators play in? They weren't allowed to win the conference. Sensationalism more extreme than the experience of the Sun Bowl in El Paso, TX. Tell 'em Ed Hockili sent ya.
Jesus Christ did some of you numbnuts even watch the video? He literally says in the video that Florida was on probation and weren't eligible for the championship or a bowl game. That wasn't the point of the video. Try paying attention.
To Hell with Georgia! To Hell with Tennessee! To Hell with the NCAA... Go Gators!!!
6 conference games in a 10 team conference?!?!?! Ridiculous.
They used to put them at the bottom with an asterisk in the Pac-10 when there were a few on probation.
I really appreciate the bowling for soup reference, that song has been stuck in my head for like 3 days lmfao
So tell me how THE MEDIA handled Auburn in 94 when they were ineligible to win anything but regular season games? They went undefeated that year.
93 as well, so Terry Bowden won 23 of his first 24 games (also starting 2-0 in '95) before his first loss
Undefeated in 93. One loss and one tie in 94
Oh yeah that's right, for some reason I thought the tie was in the Iron Bowl and then their first loss was to LSU in '95
8:15 - 8:34 Well in 1984 Florida was ineligible and LSU went to the Sugar Bowl by default
2002 Alabama was ahead of Arkansas in the west but Arkansas went on to the SEC championship game because Alabama was on probation. Don't be on probation. I thought this story was going to involve more than the two local Knoxville papers.
This is why I detest the AP Poll and committee rankings. They will place a team that has no merit being in the top 25 because of the name of the school rather by what they have on their win-loss column. Example Tennessee every year gets placed on the top 25 when the previous year they were terrible.
"Tie for the title outright" ?
Lmao no kidding...he also said that standings are sorted by wins...ummm, try win %, bud
If rankings were actually based on wins alone then all undefeated teams would be ranked hire but we all know that doesn't happen
I was at the Florida-Tennessee game in 1985. It was crazy hot that day. The Tennessee players wilted in the heat.
2:42 Nice
The numbers themselves may not lie, but _people_ can--and do--lie _about_ the numbers.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
You didn't mention the fact that we won the Sugar Bowl that year, blowing out a very good Miami team 35-7. I know the controversy was dumb, but Tennessee did deserve to be ranked higher than Florida at the end of the year.
Someone is salty here
Maybe you want to tell Nick Saban what you said at the beginning of this video, because he definitely argued 2-loss Bama should be in the playoffs.
I had a Penn State fan, this past season, try to convince me, after they lost to Iowa, that they should move UP in the rankings and that Iowa should move down 2 or 3 spots. Good times.
I'm originally from PA. Those people fought to keep that Paterno statue up after the Sandusky scandal soooooo yeah....... They ain't right in the head
Apparently Tennessee never heard of *
This is the most on par thing for Tennessee fans I've ever seen
UT is the most obnoxious fan base in the country.
Well considering the FACT that Tennessee AND Florida BOTH SUCK and COMBINED STILL can't add up to a 39.6 and should NEVER SHOW UP for their games is it ANY WONDER that this HAPPENED?!
That practice is not entirely unheard of...you need to do some research. If they're ineligible/disqualified from making a bowl game, they should be at the bottom. It's not the big deal you're shilling it up to be. Jfc...
Man we (Tennessee fans) can be stupid
Ohio State fans would do something like that though.
And they say "cancel culture" is new. Vols fans (and the paper that agreed with them) did just that.
Not really cancel culture, but the far left mentality of making up a reality that's different from the actual truth and then forcing people to believe it's real.
@@DolFan316 You mean far RIGHT mentality of making up a reality, etc. Right? er, correct?
@@Kiddman32 Your side's the one trying to force people to believe gender isn't real while celebrating Women's History Month. Just sayin'.
@@DolFan316 To my knowledge, nobody on either "side" has ever tried to force anyone into thinking "gender isn't real". Stop reading Breitbart.
@@Kiddman32 Another far left lie, your side's been saying it for at least 3 years now. According to them gender is a "social construct" that people just made up for hundreds of thousands of years for no real reason. Oh, and Women's History Month! Also, men can get pregnant now when they were never able to before!
#OhBeauty!
Why do you say your "T"s as "D"s?...Unbeaden?.........
Please stop with Sun Bowl videos. Okay folks, Florida beat Tennessee 17-10. Florida's only loss was to Georgia, who ultimately played Arizona... IN THE SUN BOWL! (13-13 TIE)
Lol. Common sense and math have never been UT fans' strong suits.
They only know one stupid song and still won't shut up about Peyton Manning.
I'm just surprised that many UT fans know how to put the alphabet together and write letters.
Florida was on probation, record does not matter.
Edgy.
the old ball coach and uf owned peyton and ut. 4-0.
Florida fans like to accuse UT fans of living in the 90s but y’all wear your Danny Wuerffel jerseys and live right with them too.
The media covering the Tennessee Volunteers is perhaps the most biased in all of American sports. Remember years later in 2017 when Tennessee coach Butch Jones actually said in a press conference "what do we want from our media?" as if their role was to advance propaganda. Many outlets covering the Vols do, and it is not uncommon to see, for instance, "reporters" wearing Tennessee gear in the Neyland Stadium press box. That said, perhaps it is telling that seven years or so later the Journal would fold, while the News-Sentinel is still up and running.
As bad as it sounds from the outside view, Tennessee fans being Tennessee fans by getting the media to spin it to get UT to a bowl game.
No wonder why UT and Florida really…really hate each other.
Tennessee was going to the Sugar Bowl regardless. Florida was on probation and couldn't go anywhere.
@@johncate9541 Yes, they would have gone to NOLA anyway, however, was it really worth the fans and the Knoxville papers to do all of that?
Answer: No.
@@dsmscenester No, it was just silliness because they got butthurt seeing Florida above them in the standings. The SEC ruled against not letting UF's games count.
@@dsmscenester it's actually not uncommon...do some research.