The Original Plans for The Hobbit
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- Taking a look at what Guillermo Del Toro's The Hobbit would have been like before Peter Jackson took over directing J.R.R. Tolkien's famous book.
⏱️TIMESTAMPS⏱️
0:00 Intro
1:30 Peter Jackson Takes Over
2:20 From One to Two to Three Films
3:18 Del Toro's Cinematic Style
4:23 Smaug
5:28 Azog
5:50 Ian McKellen Reduced to Tears
6:20 Battle of the Five Armies
7:15 Cast
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#thehobbit #lordoftherings - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Nah, let’s be honest. In the universe where Del Toro’s movies were produced, fans are moaning “imagine how much better they would have been if Peter Jackson had directed!”
I’m still convinced that PJ-if given enough time-would’ve knocked it out of the park.
Del Toro may have also. Instead, we got the worst of both worlds: del Toro leaving late in the game & PJ with little prep time, not able to surround himself with the talent he had before (F Walsh & P Boyens), left to cobble together whatever ideas of another artist’s work he could while under tons more studio scrutiny and micro-management under a huge time constraint.
It’s honestly a miracle there’s anything good to say about these movies
The Hobbit trilogy is in no way a bad film, but considering what came before it and what could have been with Del Toro, it makes it quite disappointing.
Ever since I know what Jackson had to deal with, I feel sorry for him and the whole project. I really wonder how the movies would have turned out with him as a director right from the start, enough preperation and only two movies.
Eh, the Hobbit should have only been one movie imo.
I both love and hate this channel. I love it because it is entertaining and gives us a look into "what could have been," which usually is a heartfelt, genuine improvement over what we got. But that is also the very reason I hate it.
Hahahah well said
Precisely!
Malcolm hates and loves this channel, As he hates and loves himself.
I think the visual differences between the LotR trilogy and Del Toro's Hobbit could have been easily explained by framing the fist movie as Bilbo telling the story of his adventures to a young Frodo, who has never been outside the Shire, and wouldn't know, for example, what Orcs or a Dragon looked like. And so we would literally be seeing them through the lens of Frodo's imagination. Very similar to the idea behind Tarsem Singh's movie, The Fall. And then it would make a lot more sense for the second movie to be visually closer to LotR, as it wouldn't have the same framing device.
I love that idea. Brilliant!
That's... genius.
Very similar to how Tolkien explained the differences in tone between The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings - with Bilbo writing the Hobbit, and Frodovand Sam writing LOTR in the Red Book. You also get a taste of There and Back Again from Gandalf's perspective if you read Unfinished Tales.
that’s possibly the best way I can think of doing it tbqh
That would make sense for how the story was originally developed and told too. It was a story he created for his children to read to them and only later was it tied to the greater world of LotR. The book very much reads and is a mythical adventure fantasy that Del Toro could of tapped into quite well.
The saddest part of Del Toro’s vision never seeing the light of day is his love of practical effects.
I would have loved to see a more practical take on middle earth’s special effects, especially the uncanny valley effects that Del Toro gravitates towards.
Never seen Pacific Rim, then...
@@MaryBrownIsTheBlairWitch Actually Del Toro still used a lot of practical effects on that film despite not having to. For instance he had miniatures built of destroyed cities. As well, the cockpits of the Jaegers were life-size sets that Del Toro would shake and move to get real reactions and movements from the actors within whenever a they’d experience an impact.
So you know, stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
@ethandavis3056 Nothing to smoke, pal - your comment implies Del Toro steers clear of CGI. Nah. Plenty of Jackson's Hobbit trilogy is in-camera.
@@MaryBrownIsTheBlairWitch It doesn’t imply that in the slightest…
I said he loves practical effects, not that he doesn’t use CGI… Really weird fight to pick with this very uncontroversial comment.
He uses both, period. Never said otherwise.
@ethandavis3056 When you imply something you imply it, not say it. Doofus.
Remember don't blame Jackson for The Hobbit it was a very troubled production that didn't have much prep work.
I loved his Hobbit movies
It's honestly really heart breaking what happened to the hobbit. I'm sure Sir Ian and Peter felt it during his scenes. There was no capturing the magic of the Lord of the Rings in this circumstance. Once again, big studio execs ruining movies. If those delays never happened, Guillermo's idea would've been incredible, maybe not LOTR level, but certainly much better than what we got, and a much better experience for everyone who worked on the films.
I feel especially bad for Sir Ian he reprised his role mainly because he didn't want to disappoint the fans and ended up having a terrible experience
I still feel so bad for GDT. 2:58 PJ didn't do this, it was the studio demanding it. PJ did stellar work with the mess he had to organise. But even him can't turn shit into gold.
He shouldn´t have taken the job.
I suppose I'm more stunned that _Peter_ _Jackson,_ creator of one of the greatest trilogies of all time (with the awards and box office take to show for it), would be subjected so rapaciously to the studios will.
ended up still being better compared to Rings of Power haha
@@OliverHollingdale You're entitled to your opinion of course. You're still wrong though.
@@Soniti1324 As he would always have been a producer, the decision would prbably have been if they make the movies or not. He wanted to do the movies, he just hadn't planned to direct them. So he basically took one for the team. At least that's my guess.
Del Toro is one of the best filmmakers out there, and his visual style has never failed to disappoint. Had he retained control of the film, I have no doubt that it'd be just as beloved as Jackson's LOTR trilogy 😊
I thought Jackson was tired of LOTR by then, so it made sense for someone else, in particular Del Toro to make it their first time in Middle Earth, just as Jackson had.
"Never failed to disappoint" LOL. that doesn't mean what you think it does.
I was too excited to see GdT's "The Hobbit". His movies have what he calls "eye protein", and are amazing to watch! His creature designs would've been wild. I'm sure his Smaug would've been ugly, asymmetrical, and scary as Hell!
It was a sad story when it comes to The Hobbit films and what could have been. That said, given the recent success of Pinocchio, I would be open to GDT doing an animated version of The Hobbit to enable his vision but also expand his fantastic stop motion work.
A friend of mine worked on the Hobbit series before Del Toro left and shared this unique fact with me: Del Toro intended to film several scenes throughout both films using minor adjustments to the colour grading to imply that Bilbo was making up parts of the story entirely. These small adjustments would signal that Bilbo wasn't being entirely honest about what happened on his adventures without making this super noticeable. There is even a line from Del Toro's screenplay that plants this idea early in the first film, when Gandalf tells Bilbo "all good stories deserve a little embellishment." This was Del Toro's creative solution to remaining truthful to the kid-friendly nature of the book, without contradicting the tone of the LOTR trilogy.
Jackson did not honor this detail written into the screenplay, and so therefore the barrel sequence for example is played tonally consistent with the rest of the film.
Oh, that’s really interesting! I hated the barrel sequence, but filming it the way you explained according to Del Toro’s vision would have completely changed my perception of the scene.
Jackson’s was also 2 screenplays. The studio forced a third film after filming. The second screenplay was cut up in the editing room, and reshoots were done to stretch it.
I want PJ bigatures version. With practical effects and models, and props. And the studio giving them enough time to do it so it didn't need to all be greenscreen. I wish it had been shot on Super35 and film instead of 48 frames per second 3D video. Should have been two films.
Agreed
The Hobbit trilogy that we got was obviously a misfire which we can't 100% blame Jackson for. That being said I'm not sure Del Toro would have been the right fit either. He makes interesting films to be sure but I feel a lot of his work is style over substance. The Hobbit movie we should have got was one where Jackson actually had time for pre production with a limited budget and no greedy studio interference.
My thoughts exactly.
Del Toro is probably my favourite filmmaker but I also don't think he would've been right for The Hobbit. I think Jackson making a two-parter with a substantial delay in release date so he would have enough pre-production time would've been the ideal choice
yes but compared to Rings of Power the Hobbit movies are genius.
Del Toro would have probably stretched Riddles in the Dark to almost a 3rd of the movie, but same time he would have probably made Gollum more menacing that it could very easily have backfired by the time we get to the Two Towers.
You are quickly becoming my favorite channel. Love all these what could have been videos!
Wow, thank you!
Let's all agree Hobbit would've been 100x better with less CGI
CGI wasn't the main issue of the film. Issue was too much empty content
Why are people bitching about CGI its a fantasy movie god damn
@therealgirl3295 I literally don't see a difference in visuals between LOTR and The Hobbit other than The Hobbit just looks slightly better in visuals idk what redditors are chimping over like they act like film geniuses
@@alobaymar its not the CGI presence, its that the CGI sucked in it. It was literally terrible effects. Compare that to the outstanding effects of the Lord of the Rings, and there is where the complaints come from.
@@charliegriffey7773 nah dude look at the Goblin King compared to that cave troll. I was wondering why LOTR looked like a downgrade after first watching The Hobbit trilogy, I forgot LOTR came out first
I like to think that Del Toro's version would have been awesome! I liked almost everything I have heard. I am not sure about the dragon, but it sounded promising.
Del Toro’s monsters are second to none, I’m sure the dragon would have ended up looking awesome.
We saw some of it. The design for Mirkwood and Thandruill's Elvin Cave were based on Del Toro's Minatures.
100%
The concepts for Smaug are a thing I think about often. Something about the mouth specifically. Knowing Del Toro I imagine it would look creepy.
That editing of the scenes involving the green pasture, the blue tint, the crimson tint, and the yellow part was somethinf else tho~ 👀😳☺️👍
The idea of Del Toro’s fantasy like world slowly and seamlessly becoming Jackson’s darker, slightly more realistic world sounds like it would’ve been amazing. Real shame it didn’t come to fruition
I’d love for them to take another crack at the hobbit with his vision and just make it separate from the LotR trilogy by Jackson. I really liked the hobbit movies that we got, but there are some things I wish they did differently such as using far less cgi (something I wish more movies would use less of) and some story things being different as well.
I've always wondered why they put the Elven/Dwarf love interest there? It didn't need it all! :(
I know. So unnecessary!
Wonder what Tauriel's original role in the trilogy was before the reshoots.
I'm that rare breed of person that loves Jackson's The Hobbit films despite the bloat and flaws. Still, I'd have loved to see Guillermo's version.
As an aside, I wonder if one day you'd be able to cover the project that Guillermo left The Hobbit for: At the Mountains of Madness. There's not a lot of info out there (as far as I know, anyway) but I'd like to see it nonetheless.
I'll have a look. Someone else requested this too.
The last time At the Mountains of Madness was brought up was about a year or so ago when Guillermo posted an unfinished CGI test shot on his Twitter account showing the monster attacking a person. It was under a minute, but damn, that film could have been something special, but alas, it will never come to be.
Being honest, I love the first Hobbit movie, and would place it above The Two Towers in my rankings..... 2nd movie I thought was good, but I just did not feel it as such..... 3rd was a massive disappointment
I loved all the Hobbit films. The cast has so much chemistry with each other and the music is mostly on par with lotr. I don't think they would get nearly enough criticism if Peter Jackson had been given enough pre production time (lotr had 4 years but for the hobbit he only had 8 months), and if they hadn't been made into three films rather than two at the last minute. There's plenty of fan edits out there that cut out some of the bloat and give the films much better pacing. The special effects were at times excellent in the hobbit, like with Smaug, and at other times poor like with the streams of gold or the army of elves but I think they would have been much better if the films had more time.
Thanks for this series. They are great! Already watched 3-4 and subscribed! :)
Awesome, thank you!
@@Bulletsandblockbusters Welcome, keep up the great work!
Del Toro has done some interesting fantasy films. I think that the movie should’ve stayed as just one movie and kept it as a children’s book, but I think Peter Jackson did good work considering he only had 4 months of prep time. I think the biggest problem I have had with the Hobbit movies is the difficulties in knowing each of the 13 dwarves. I mean we already know how Thorin is and maybe Ballin as well as Gloyn who is Gimli’s father. I think flash backs and scenes with each of the dwarves would’ve helped the audience get to know the dwarves better. I talked to someone who read The Hobbit and she said that she had a hard time differentiating the dwarves and felt like they were very two dimensional.
I think Del toro’s version would’ve been interesting but we wouldn’t have gotten the Battle of the Five Armies which I really enjoyed watching.
"Computer, access all files on Guillermo Del Toro's The Hobbit and extrapolate a feature film based on his vision. Put them in a cinema on Holodeck 3."
Haha I wish
I have never become a fan of a channel so quickly, love the content of course but also love the comment sections, a peace loving community for movie buffs❤
Thank you and welcome aboard!
When del Toro moved to Wellington, he rented a second house just to house his library.
James Cameron was the one who talked del Toro to leave the project because he believed there would be too much meddling from PJ.
Except it wasn't PJ that made Del Toro to leave. It was the studio and the fact that they meddled with all his plans for the movies.
When you consider the circumstances of PJ’s involvement, it’s honestly incredible that the first movie turned out as well as it did.
I for one am happy about the design choice of Smaug, and I think Martin Freeman was brilliant. Other than that Del Toro’s version would have been so much better.
I have loved to watch Guillermo Del Toro's version of the Hobbit. It would have been a very different version from what Peter Jackson made. I think some fans would have been disappointed because the style would have been very different from the style of the Lord of the Rings trilogy, a stange looking Smaug and no on-screen The Battle of the Five Armies.
If Azog looks like a "video game character" then god damn that must be some next gen video game for 2012 dude. Idk how people saw it as poorly rendered.
Also Ian never broke down on set, that's just reddit's nerd misinformation freakouts
This channel is sensationalist garbage. Azog looked great.
We need to get a two-part comic series based on Guillermo Del Toro's vision of *"THE HOBBIT".*
Tt Games, (Who you might know for making the Lego games, actually pitched a non-Lego Hobbit game. Which would've come out around the time of Part 1 in 2011. (Which is when Part 1 was meant to come out before the delay and the change from 2 films to 3.) There's even a video on CZcams about it. The game had test levels made using elements from LOTR, but it all fell apart due to WB wanting the game to be a new story set at the same time, along wih all the stuff going on with the film.
I'm curious, out of all the what could have been videos you've done, what film would you liked to have seen the most?
Oh wow! What a question. I’d probably have to go with Return of the Jedi. How ‘bout you?
@@Bulletsandblockbusters Spider-man 3. Don't hate the final movie, some parts of it I really like. But it's that one for me.
I would’ve loved to have seen that one too
I would love if Del Toro was given another chance to do his movie. I doubt it will ever happen I think the door is open with how it turned out.
The missing reel with the lap dance scene in deathproof is included in the original version of the movie and can be found on youtube.
I have to check my DVD - but I don't think it has the "reel missing" gag. I never new about that!
It's in the theatrical version. On home video when they released both films as separate movies they added a bunch of deleted scenes into Death Proof to make it longer, including the lap dance scene.
@@Bulletsandblockbusters I only got the threatical
Peter Jackson always looks like he slept in his clothes and has been playing video games all day.
I think Jackson was the only real choice for this tbh, after his work on LoTR - I'm curious about the original two-part structure though, I've done an edit myself but who knows how it compares to the original?
Maybe one day they'll release a directors cut that removes some of the bloat, like with blade runner
The Missing Reel gag was just in the theatrical cut of the movie. The scene was filmed and is part of the full movie version, unlike what was implied in this video. Should have made that clear.
Hobbit should have been an animated movie. In fact it still should be, GDT should be brought back with whatever time and budget he chooses.
I actually enjoyed the Hobbit movies but this is a real eye opener for me. I agree it would have been much better to see Del Toro involved. 😢
I can happily sit through Jackson's Hobbit movies - I don't get the bad rep they have, myself 🤔🤷🏻♂️
They’re fine its just the missed potential that they could’ve been great like the LOTR trilogy
Take a shot every time you hear "CGI-laden extravaganza".
😂
I loved the Battle of the Five Armies!
I honestly can’t imagine a Middle-Earth movie by del Toro since Jackson perfected it.
Jackson overrated the hobbit was awful
Release the Del Toro cut! :)
Saddened that Del Toro never got the chance. The man has vision. Talk about a missed opportunity. Glad I never watched the film
A good way to watch the hobbit is with one of the fan edits. The studio interference did ruin the theatrical releases. But Peter Jackson understands the stories. And was still able to put in a lot of great things. That unfortunately usually get overlooked, in favor of complaining.
After finding an edit that properly trimmed the fat, but didn't over do it. I have actually grown to love the hobbit more than the LOTR movies in some aspects.
And while Del Toro is probably my all time favorite director. It is clear some of his choices would have created their own problems. And ultimately him not working on it seemed to be a critical factor, which resulted in them getting the best actor to play young Bilbo.
The different animated movies from the 70s are vastly different from each other and have clashing tones, style, and designs. It seems Del Toro tried to make The Hobbit different but believable to where it may connect to Jackson's LOTR trilogy.
Jackson didn't want to make three films. He only wanted to make two. The decision was made before the first movie premiered that a third film would be made. He mentions this multiple times during the documentaries on the extended editions of the films.
should’ve only been 1 tbh
Jackson's films are nowhere near as bad as people make out. It's not the Star Wars prequels level bad.
Does anyone else get the impression from watching this channel that studios purposefully select the lesser versions of the potential stories/films to move forward with? It’s insane how many of these would have been far superior to what we got 🤦♂️
This breaks my heart.
I am glad he is not the guy that finished it. His visual style would not mesh well imo.
you could do an entire second channel on del toro projects that were announced but never came to be 😔
While we have a lot of representations and illustrations of Middle Earth and Jackson has been pretty accurate in adapting it, I feel those are still literrary work who could be visually represented in many many ways and having two trilogies depicting it with the same aesthethic and now a TV Show reprising it makes it harder and harder to imagine a fresh-looking and imaginative middle-earth.
Peter could've made a great single Hobbit movie if he was given more time and didn't use so much CGI.
Where does these extracts from 3:47 to 3:57 come from ?
What Dreams May Come
@@Bulletsandblockbusters Thank you very much !
Above all the fact that the producers thought the dwarfs had to look fuckable is so incredibly depressing.
They could have done two films: one ending as they were floating downriver to the Lonely Mountain as it comes into view, then the actual fulfillment of the quest.
Wish we got this version, was disappointed in the the cgi fest we got
This makes me sad we didn't get this
Please do a video on the Rated R Scooby Doo movies ! I've never seen anyone really cover it
I'll look into it
In what version does the lap dance doesn’t show? I’ve seen every time I’ve watched the film
Theatrical
I still love the Hobbit films warts and all. But man would this have been magical to see, such a shame
slightly confused about Death Proof, when I watched the film the lap dance was most certainly in the film.
It wasn’t if you saw it in theatres.
I'm really sad we never got to see his vision for this
Brian Blessed would have been great as Thorin Oakenshield!
I’m still not over the fact that Guillermo didn’t get to direct The Hobbit 😭😭
I love Del Toro's movies. I was seriously pissed when he lost the Hobbit. It should have been his big break.
To me, the best way to watch the Hobbit flicks is to watch all three extended creations, and then watch the appendices for them right after. The documentary of making them is far superior to the actual movies, which I feel is a direct inverse of the LOTR trilogy. I dunno that’s just my recommendation lol
James Macavoy would have been a great Bilbo and you know it!
😮 The Hobbit was a childrens book... I'm not really sure what the movies were,. but there's a made for TV animated movie that I think almost perfectly captures the spirit of the book... just my opinion
If Jackson didn't have 1.5 yrs prep time for his version, why didn't he pick up on what Del Toro had spent 1.5 yrs doing?
He didn’t want to make a del toro film. He wanted to do his own thing.
@@Bulletsandblockbusters But if you can't make the film you want to, go with the one that has been fully worked out. It seems like hanging onto his version for vanity's sake. Or thinking he can overcome limited time. The best adaptation of The Hobbit should be what's most important.
Don’t kill the messenger lol
@@Bulletsandblockbusters I didn't intend that to sound like I was having a go at you. I love your channel and the effort you put into the videos. I also love the topic of whatcouldhavebeen. While I understand the point you made, I was questioning Jackson's rationale to push on with something he couldn't achieve when a solution was already there. Keep up the good work!
All good I was just teasing. I def didnt take it that way. Not to worry. And thank you!
In a 2 parter, I would have liked it if Bane had left Joker out of prison but (a la Infinite Crisis) keeping him out of the carnage...
Then in part 2, Joker comes back and fucks it all up for Bane, because he "didn't let the Joker play"..
The Hobbit we got failed because Tolkien’s book is not an action story but a fairy tale - GDT’s specialty
Hobbit is a hard book to make a movie out of, as there is not enough for 2 full movies, but to much for just one (at least with LoTR you can scrap things like Tom Bombadil and greatly shorten the chase to rescue Pippen and Mery, and Treebeard etc.....)..... but the Hobbit book there is not actually that much fat to trim to start with (certainly not enough to get it down to one movie).... I think Tel Toro would have absolutely nailed Riddles in the Dark and have probably taken Gollum to a level that went beyond The Two Towers.
Love Lotr Trilogy and was sad when Jackson abandoned practice effects and rely more on CGI 😥
Can we just have this Pinnochio style?
A few months, weird Del Toro couldn't be arranged to return.
I don’t understand what people’s problem with the Hobbit trilogy is. I love them and they are really different from LOTR but so what? They should be.
Me and my buddies got super baked before the third hobbit movie and the whole time we couldn’t stop laughing at how bad it was
😂
Why can't we just get a standalone 'GdT's The Hobbit'? Doesn't even have to have continuity with Jackson's. I bet it would be awesome.
That would be sweet. One movie too!
How do we get a “del Toro’s Hobbit” that doesn’t have continuity with the Jackson films, when those were based on the book? 🤔
@@gregbors8364 also based on the books, just a reinterpretation
Sorry, but no. Del Toro's creature designs are good for his own films but looks absolutely awful for the Middle Earth universe. His Smaug especially looks way too bestial and alien. Some might disagree but I'm so glad Jackson came back and gave us a consistent vision for the whole series.
"subverting our expectations"... ugh, he must be one of those guys who likes The Last Jedi
6:01 incorrect it was only shot this way because of the 3D not because of CGI.
Okay, I’m down. Let’s make it happen.
MGM should redo the hobbit into one movie, start from scratch with the love they put into the trilogy
MGM wasn’t involved with LOTR. The original trilogy was from New Line Cinema. The rights to the Hobbit were with MGM. So WB/New Line had to come to a deal with MGM to get the movie going. Then they had to do a long drawn out deal with the Tolkien estate. All these issues were a big chunk of why it was delayed for such a long time. A lot of us thought the movie wasnt going to get made.
I said from day 1 the Hobbit needed a new director, new cast, new everything
Wow. I had no idea about this. That freaking sucks.
I would have liked to have seen del Toro's version more, probably. I'm among the people disappointed with the Hobbit movies for a variety of reasons. I do wonder if any crew could have dealt with the most over-arching problem that The Hobbit is a short children's book. The movies that were made did a kind of weird back and forth between whacky gags and heavy drama that ended up being a big mess. Maybe that eluded-to progression from childlike to serious could have dealt with the difference better.
I personally have always preferred Hobbit over lord of the rings. It's an adventure story about dwarves getting their gold back not a war story.
I watch the movies but I don't really like them and it should have only been two
I'd put the blame of the underwhelming hobbit movies on the studio, not on jackson. He should've never agreed to helm it given how little preparation the studio gave him. Sucks we didn't get to see what del toro could've done to the hobbit.
Does anybody else think PJ looks so weird after he lost a bunch of weight? Like while directing LOTR he's big and round but he's walking with a purpose, large and in charge. Everything I see in the hobbit is him looking old, tired, and weird, with baggy drab clothes
What shocked me most was seeing a skinny Peter Jackson.
I do think hindsight is 20 20 at the time everyone was happy Peter Jackson came back to do it .
Other than his Smaug design (which wasn’t that bad imo) his vision could’ve just as good as the lotr trilogy