Geoffrey West - What is Complexity in the Cosmos?
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- čas přidán 1. 08. 2024
- Our universe began with a swirling, seething plasma-everything, everywhere, all the same. Today we have galaxies, stars, planets, people. How did such structure come about?
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Great interview! Learned a lot and got many ideas for my field of research which also evolves around complex (partially/to some extent adaptive) systems! Thanks a lot for sharing it Robert! Looking forward to seeing more on this topic here!
Geoffrey West must be one of the most important scientists alive today 👍
Potential creates complexity, the more potential a system has the more complexity there is, if there’s little or no potential it’s simple or non existent.
Great interview! Just to add that Scott Page defines a complex system as one that is: Diverse, Connected, Interdependent and Adaptive. Wolfram is being modest here as the Science of complexity (and related Chaos Theory) is already quite well established in so many areas, of which he is one of the major leading lights! Wolfram’s 4 classes of behaviours: stable, periodic, chaotic and complex is an example of how Science has been traditionally very much about the first two, yet most natural systems are chaotic or complex.
I was happy to hear West comment on the artificiality of boundaries in looking at the dynamic of interacting complex systems. Truth be told, all boundaries are assigned based on parameters we decide upon or, in the case of physical entities or systems, observe. But the fooler is that what we accept or observe is dependent upon what we take to be separable things or systems, but nature does not "see" things the same way. Still, the way we operate as observers and interpreters is also natural, and that we do progress in our understanding of complexity is good enough, with the proviso that it is an endless process where science (read scientists) must never rest on its laurels, nor let habits and egos become part of a pseudoscientific method. Laurels are too simple and comfortable an ornament compared to what the cosmos presents in all its beauty and complexity.
Could you please introduce some resources in this field, I sm somehow familiar with this topic but I wanna rigiditate my knowledge
this hits home very hard right now with covid19
Is there a way to describe how energy is used for complexity?
So is there a difference between complexity and emergence in this context?
Could quantum mechanics be withdrawing energy from classic universe in which results an equilibrium of more complexity, while using that energy to develop quantum pockets of greater order that bring even more complexity into classic universe, with the cycle continuing on and on?
Do chemistry, biology, meteorology and geology describe complexity?
Emergence is another way of saying how energy is used for complexity?
He is excellent - clear, logical and original.
I think our best bet is to follow biology. Rather than survival of the fittest you have survival of the persistent. What does it take to be persistent? A balance of mass, location and normative systematisation. If anyone knows how to do the math for that ... :)
I didn't get what he meant by separating something complex from a complicated thing.
The word missing here is fractals, and fractal geometry - the centre of chaos theory and complexity.
I'm an economics teacher and as an amateur have taken it on to study the 'emergent' fractal for insight into our reality, as the economic theory I teach uncannily pointed me to it. So far I have shown fractal geometry matches economic theory and have concluded the market is a fractal - this also points to a theory of knowledge. Through this work I was drawn to field of physics, as the fractal was a very strange thing when in isolation; it shares behaviour that is only be described as quantum mechanics is described. The fractal points to a reality of duality, at all scales, including wave and particle.With is I can reason entanglement. Simultaneously the fractal demonstrates accelerated expansion just as the universe - it does Hubble expansion and accelerated 'inflation' expansion, and it matches the way galaxies are distributed in the universe. It also behaves as light, with a constant speed and wave particle propagation. Everything points to a fractal geometry and it is inextricably linked to evolution too.
I am slowly writing and presenting my work - I'm not a born writer, but nobody at a professional level has shown any interest, and that to me is the most amazing thing about the fractal. I feel like I am in the 16th Century, this man didn't even mention the word.
I figure I write my findings down and wait for some 'expert' to find it for themselves, then we can talk hopefully. Anyway, nice talk. If you are interested I have presented on my CZcams channel czcams.com/video/NoTEwZ-pTtk/video.html (Inverted) Fractal Demonstrating Micro Quantum and Macro Astronomical Observations and Conjectures
The Philosophy of Fractals; drive.google.com/file/d/1c09mF7085xDzu6sIUJIcWcPntvXfx9Lj/view?usp=sharing
Meaning is the operation of exchanging truth for value.
If we are describing behaviors that are material expressions form another realm, it may be no different than describing the relationship of the pixels on the monitor.
There are three regions to reality.
1, the non-computable region. Consciousness lives here.
2, the infinite fractal boundary (scale relativity). The number of dimensions depends on the scale, beauty lives here.
3, everything outside the set. Self referential noise, all meaning is lost.
The Big Bang may be a phase transition of spacetime.
Information is a difference that makes a difference. Truth is information that doesn't change and self referential noise is a difference that doesn't make a difference.
Truth as a time coordinate; truth lives in the past, the future is uncertain.
Truth as a scale coordinate; truth lives in the macro world, the micro world is uncertain.
Truth lives in the macro past and uncertainty lives in the micro future.
Blair... your story is mine to a tee, except I found the fractal through medicine and sociology. But no one will listen as it still isn't quite the time for its release. The fractal also applies to consciousness and especially to time. All history will have to be rewritten. I wish you luck in your endeavours.
Fractals are well-entrenched in this field already. As soon as the words "systems composed of multiple non-linear agents" were said, even an undergrad physicist can recognize it: such a system will be chaotic (in the sense that small changes in initial conditions can lead to dramatic changes in the final result), and chaos has been investigated with fractals since the 1970s.
If your ideas, Blair and Kahl, are being ignored, perhaps it is because you do not fully understand the people you wish to communicate with. For example, no scientist or mathematician uses the phrase "the fractal" the way either of you have, and that's a massive red flag that your stuff will be too hard to read and contain too little value to justify the effort. It may seem pedantic, but see it from the perspective of the scientist: they have a long day teaching as well as pursuing their own research, then a bunch of strangers write in each with some idea that may or may not be a waste of time relative to everything else they're doing. A scientist really only has the extra energy for their friends and colleagues, and for those those few strangers who are absolutely flawless in their scientific practice and presentation. One big advantage of going through to a PhD is that you suddenly get to be a colleague or a friend instead of a stranger.
Thank you for your comment Okuno. Your point is valid and not only applies to physics but most professions, including my own. I think what is standing in the way of the required breakthrough that every great physicist has searched for from Pythagoras, Newton, Feynman, Einstein and Hawkins is this...
Mythology and the Greek language capture two ideas about time. One is Cronus; the chronological time we are all familiar with. The other is Kairos, the youngest son of Zeus. These legends offer an explanation that is out of the box but interesting. There is a saying... Man plans and God laughs. The essence of Kairos conceptually applies to science, medicine, religion, rhetoric and digital concepts - see Wiki article. There is no English word equivalent for it. In this sense the Kairos suggests that... If there is an underlying master fractal at the heart of all creation, then it will be revealed at the right time and not before. I am sure you will live to see someone get the credit, at least I hope so.
Meaning is the operation of exchanging truth for value.
If we are describing behaviors that are material expressions form another realm, it may be no different than describing the relationship of the pixels on the monitor.
There are three regions to reality.
1, the non-computable region. Consciousness lives here.
2, the infinite fractal boundary (scale relativity). The number of dimensions depends on the scale, beauty lives here.
3, everything outside the set. Self referential noise, all meaning is lost.
The Big Bang may be a phase transition of spacetime.
Information is a difference that makes a difference. Truth is information that doesn't change and self referential noise is a difference that doesn't make a difference.
Truth as a time coordinate; truth lives in the past, the future is uncertain.
Truth as a scale coordinate; truth lives in the macro world, the micro world is uncertain.
Truth lives in the macro past and uncertainty lives in the micro future.
To get an idea of how society can deal with complex systems for the maximal social good, see Milton Friedman.
... Or even better, see Nassim Taleb.