Why did US pilots love the Thunderbolt so much?
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- čas přidán 4. 04. 2023
- The P-47 Thunderbolt is one of the most recognisable US fighter planes from the Second World War. After the United States joined the war, pilots from the US Army Air Force were sent to Britain to aid in the war effort, along with their trusty Thunderbolts. Used in every major theatre of the war, the Thunderbolt was loved by its pilots - and feared by its enemies - for its deadly combination of high firepower and bomb-carrying capabilities. Nicknamed the 'Jug', the P-47 would destroy over 7,000 enemy aircraft during the war.
In this video, our expert Graham Rodgers walks us through the history and technical aspects of this iconic aircraft.
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Just so you know, the Spitfire you show flying ID letters WX-F, is my father at the controls, Polish fighter pilot Witold ‘Lanny’ Lanowski, who ironically was also a thunderbolt ace with the 56th FG ‘Zemke’s Wolfpack’
Hubert Zemke was an Incredible Pilot and Commander ... He adored the P 47 s along with my friend Gabby Gabreski : )
When Zemke left the 56th to join the 479th, Dave Schilling took over as 56th CO. It was Schilling that opted to remain with the 47 rather than switch to mustangs.
Zemke was actually annoyed with Schilling when he found out. Zemke would have preferred 51’s.
The 56th pilots actually started transition to 51’s in early 45 when they were having problems with the 47M’s which almost got all ‘M’s grounded for good
It is a shame what the PAF did to your father. Francis Gabreski inviting him and the other few Polish to join them was certainly unique. That the PAF wouldn’t pay your father, but the 56th crews gathering funds for him shows the friendships built up among them.
WHAT A GREAT AMERICAN YOUR
FATHER WAS...
@@jeffreyhanshawsr4884 Although, he was a talented fighter pilot and earned ace status. He never was formally in the USAAF and actually didn’t get paid. His squadron mates would give him money from their own pockets. After the war, he would get into the RAF. I might need correction here, but one of his duties was test piloting. His citizenship would change from Polish to British. A great man but sadly not an American, though he served with our troops.
In the 90's I had a neighbor who was a Hellcat pilot in WWII and 50's test pilot. I once asked him, if he could pick a WWII fighter to fly in the war, which would he chose. I expected him to say the F6F Hellcat or the P-51, but instead he said, "The Thunderbolt." I asked why and he said, "It'd get you home."
Not in the G/A role it would not.
@@jacktattis Maybe you watched this video with the mute on?
@@AndyFromBeaverton Possibly I do that now and then I will go back and watch it with the sound up and will get back to you.
@@AndyFromBeaverton Superb in the G/A it is easy to see that this bloke did no research 2600 plus lost in that role Fantastically fast in the dive NO IT WAS NOT It had a T/M of 0.72 and according to US tests 520 mph IAS @10000ft 450mph IAS @ 20000ft is NOT fast When they did the tests in feb 44 at Farnborough from 40000ft full bore it was buggered at 0.72 which was not that far down
This from a test at Farnborough to compare the PRXI and the Mustang P51 with the Allison which had a laminar flow wing At the conclusion the Mustang dived from 28000ft and The Spit from 40000ft The results were Spit T/M 0.89 @ 29000 ft from 40000ft the Mustang T/M 0.80 @17000ft from 28000ft
the P47 took part later but the pilot found it went out of control early and he had to use the dive recovery flap down A later test revealed the P47 t/m WAS 0.72
I did go back and the answer is Below
Dad flew the P40, P47 and P51 in WWII! In Europe. The '47 was the one he loved. He said it was the most stable gun platform of the 3 and it would take a tremendous amount of battle damage.
Yeah. read Robert Johnson's autobiography "Thunderbolt".
Johnson was, as I recall, a #1 Ace in Europe and has a beautiful description of turning back from a raid because of engine trouble and getting "found" by a FW-190 just before entering English airspace. The German flew behind him and peppered him with cannon fire repeatedly while Johnson just huddled in his armor and let the slugs hit. Just before the English coast the German pulled up along side, looked at Johnson, shrugged his shoulders, saluted and turned around. The book has a photo of the plane after he landed.
I read that story over 40 years ago and it is still fresh in my mind.
The P-47 sounds like a high flying P-40. Same kind of dynamics.
@@jjhpor Cannon No 7.92 Bullets yes
My dad made these planes in Farmingdale, Long Island for Republic Aviation from 1942-1945. God rest his soul.
Truly the battle hymn of the Republic when it fires all it's guns and rockets.
Winning the war required a team effort. The pilots got all of the glory, but behind those stalwart men, were literally thousands of people getting that pilot and his aircraft into combat over Europe.
My mother and her parents worked at the Republic Aircraft plant in Evansville, IN making P-47s during the war. They were there for the duration of the war. My mother worked on the radios and instruments, and her parents installed the skins on the exterior. I can still remember seeing a publicity still of the machine guns being sighted in at the factory with 8 streams of tracer bullets converging at the preset distance at the target.
It was a tough decision between the Aviation Museum and Republics Museum when we were tight on time when my family and I were at long Island. We went to the aviation one instead because they had a P47 otherwise both places are excellent. We know where to go next time!
My father kept his Stinson Voyageur at Republic back in the 1970s. I flew out of there with him many times. I recall when it became Fairchild Hiller, not sure what became of the plant after that.
The paddle-bladed propeller introduced in early 1944 (which was mentioned at about 7:09) went a long way to solving the sluggish climb issue. So much so that a lot of German pilots, who had trained to climb steeply away upon finding a jug on their tails, were in for a nasty surprise.
HAHAHAHA wHAT NASTY SURPRISE ?
@@jacktattis That just climbing away will no longer shake off the pursuing Thunderbolt.
Duh.
@@Hibernicus1968 Not to mention that EIGHT guns was perhaps a bit much...
Reducing it down to six shaved off some weight &one could also do a polish&wax job that smoothed the rough skin so much it'd add another 20+ MPH to the top speed :)
@@Hibernicus1968 Mate the Bf109K would be up there waiting with enough time to have a Bavarian Mud Cake and Schnaps
It could not outclimb a ta152 which was also faster as well.
My great uncle was shot down in his Thunderbolt over Denmark flying bomber escort. He was found by the Dutch Resistance and died a few days later on a farmer's couch. The farmer's wife sent some of his items to my great grandmother. He is buried in an Allied cemetery in France.
That is an interesting story. Has anyone in your family had the chance to visit your great uncle's grave?
@@josephstevens9888 unfortunately, no.
@@briankoenig8923 I have had the honor to visit the allied cemeteries in France. They are beautifully maintained and to this day the French respectfully visit and honor the soldiers. I have seen more French paying respects to the American dead at the French cemeteries than I usually see at the American national cemeteries. (I have been to several and visit my fathers grave regularly). I hope you have the opportunity to visit your father's grave some day.
That is, very touching indeed
I would have expected him to be found by the Danish Resistance, there´s a long way from Denmark to Holland - you have to go through Germany ?? are you sure he was shot down over Denmark ? That's a long way from England - - The book "Skudt ned flystyrt I Danmark 1939-45" (Shoot down, airplane crashes in Denmark 1939-1945 ) is an account of the airplanes and the air war over Denmark during the entire European war, it does unfortunately not have a summing up of all shoot down.
My father flew Spits during the war - but they could not make it to Denmark and back. But in 45 he flew P51 and they could, he was hit by flack over Denmark, but made it home with bullet holes though the cockpit (one in front and one behind him - talk of luck) , one aileron damaged and 1/4 of one propeller blade shoot of, the trip home very scary and very slow and very shaky - the rest of the squadron flew protecting circles around him, and they sent extra planes from England to ensure he was properly protected all the way home !!
My dad few the P47. He was an instructor in aerial combat in 44-45....training new pilots how to dogfight. He told me the strategy was not to engage in a dogfight if you could help it, but rather make diving passes at your enemy. Taking advantage of the speed and firepower, while avoiding planes that were more agile with tighter turning radius. And whatever you didn't hit/kill, couldn't follow you because of the speed.
at higher altitude, the P-47 had the power reserves to turn where Wehrmacht aircraft needed all the power just to go straight. Above a certain altitude the German prop aircraft had zero chance (except the Ta-152, so rare it basically didn't exist).
Wise tactics.
Fight your fight, not your opponents.
Cool.
@@lqr824 That's is really it in my opinion. The P-47 killed experienced Luftwaffe pilots when it counted in late 1943 and early 1944 due to two factors; a) its superior speed at high altitude where the fighting happened, and b) greater numbers. Once the experienced Luftwaffe pilots were gone the air war was not over but it's drift was irreversible. Other fighter aircraft, while good, did not make the same critical difference at the same time.
Basically, they used the same tactics for the P-47 that were developed for the P-40 over China (with the Flying Tigers).
My granddad flew a P-47 Thunderbolt in Europe WW2, bubble canopy , he told my dad, he would fly straight at the German BF 109s, and FW 190s, and they would always peel off, because the 47 was a wrecking machine with heavy armor and 50 cal guns and cannons, and it always brought him home. HE LOVED THAT PLANE
It had eight 50 caliber machine guns!
@@garybulwinkle82 The later variant with bubble canopy ( the 590 P-47D-25s), had outer wing 50s swapped out for cannons.
@@michaelmancini5773 I'd never ever heard that the p47 had cannons. Ever.
Even if 1 model did that would still be just one and post 1944 that model waa almost certainly not deployed in significant #s and a US built 20 mm cannon on the outboard positions would be near useless. It might carry what, 20 rounds? And be prone to jam and fire way off the centerline anyway at a low firing rate when it did fire.
While Nazi fighters with cannon had them on the nose firing straight forward. The only advantage the p47 had in frontal attacks was that massive radial engine. The p47 might have been more difficult to shoot down but do you seriously believe that none were ever shot down? That they always got the pilot home?
@@michaelmancini5773 Wrong. The P-47 was never armed with cannon in the wings.
Only in planes flown by mental low flyers. 😂
I am proud to say, I knew Earl Rodman. P-47 pilot extraordinaire.
When fueling his old Aztec or Cessna 340, I got him to tell me a few of his exploits in his "Jug".
An amazing pilot at 86 years old, I often wondered at what his youthful prowess would have been.
His record of air to air kills and ground attack deliveries was dramatic, at the least, and heroic at the most.
He transitioned to the P-51D, and said it felt like going from driving a truck, to driving a sports car.
An amazing man, on film actually, talking about the P-47.
I wish I could remember the show's title. He and two of his squadron mates tell a few stories. They all spoke of the water injection at 72psi manifold pressure, and how the engine would cough and sputter, before growling hugely and torqueing the airframe. Many young pilots got killed, rotating off the ground before the engine had come to full power, and rolling them into the ground.
I just wanted to say to a world-wide audience, "Earl Rodman was a great American, great pilot, and a faithful believer in the American Republic, that fought to, literally, save the world.
Thank you, Sir.
The American Republic NEVER fought to save the world You were attacked by the Japanese and Hitler declared War on you. Compare that to the Canadians Kiwis Australians who were in it right from the START 1939 in fact
The final M and N variants had improvements to acceleration, climb, and speed. The N had longer range than the Mustang with large wing tanks. The larger N wing further enhanced climb, larger ailerons and clipped wings improved roll and maneuverability. In addition to it's already long list of strengths, those improvements resulted in one fine aeroplane.
Worked in a convalescent home back in the 80's, when the WWII vets were entering the homes in large numbers. As an amateur historian I loved speaking to them about their experiences, of which many of them were finally willing to speak. One vet, an old P-47 mechanic, told me the story of how the P-47's early on used to get shot up by flack pretty badly on night missions. He recalled him and other ground crew looking up one night as they formed up overhead and realizing, for the first time, that they could all clearly see flames from the exhaust stacks, making it easy to visually locate the aircraft in the dark. He said they quickly figured out a field-expedient fix that was refined and incorporated on the assembly line. Sounded like he was telling me a true historical occurrence.
I love your post. The German night fighter pilots could see the exhaust flames of Lancasters 2 miles away after the radar vectored them in. Or they homed in on Monica, the rearward radar jammer, until they saw the exhaust flames.
Not to discredit your story or the vet you were talking to, but are you sure the plane he was talking about was the P-47? Because the P-47 was not a night fighting plane, and to my knowledge, *never* flew any night missions. If they did, the number was very few, and they didn't carry radar, so it must've been dusk at most I'm thinking.
one of my Filipino nurse friends who is retired said the same thing. Back in early 90's, he was at this nursing home and it was a mix of actors and vets. One was a pilot who was shot down and spent time at a Stalag. You wont read this in history books but the Germans would actually have an intelligence network in the US who collected small city newspapers about weddings, baptisms, high school dances and send millions of clipping to Germany so they knew who the pilots were regardless of how small the city they came from.
The P-47 arguably broke the back of the _Luftwaffe_ in '43 and early '44. It should also be noted that with the introduction of the 'paddle bladed' airscrew, the climb disadvantage disappeared. Besides the water injection, the Allies also had the huge advantage of better, higher octane fuel which allowed pilots to wring the most power from their engines.
The 47 had a state of the art turbo supercharger. The R 2800 was no where as good in other planes. Its one of the reasons the plane is so big. The supercharger takes up a lot of space. The 2800 was used as a stop gap in B 26 and was not very good. It was designed to have a more powerful engine but they were not available going to the B 29.
@@rogersmith7396 True, and that turbosupercharger was one of the main reasons the Jug was so big.
Actually, the R-2800 was widely use in other aircraft, particularly fighters, such as the F6F Hellcat and F4U Corsair. Of course, the supercharger arrangement was different, so performance envelopes were different.
@@petesheppard1709 Gregg put out a vid yesterday on the B 26 using that engine and detailed how sub par it was in that application. I don't think of him as God but he gets into a lot of the legends and clarifies them. He did a simulator where he was in a 47 fighting a 190 and he had a rather easy time bringing down the German. I always assumed the 47 was a lousy fighter but that is apparently not the case. It probably has fairly reasonable wing loading. It was just so different than any other countries planes.
@@rogersmith7396 I started watching the video and I'm about to finish it. I was a bit surprised with his assessment; I have always considered the Marauder to be a bit better than the B-25. I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of it!
@@petesheppard1709 See Greggs review of the B 26 from yesterday. It was designed to go over 400 mph and outrun fighters. It had the low drag, low lift Davis wing. The problem was they could'nt get the designed engine due to the war and could only get the low power R 2800. It could barely clear 300 mph which was a small improvement of the older B 25. The B 25 flew like a baby buggy, the 26 was twitchy and dangerous for the novice pilot due to the low lift wing. They added wing length to try to help but it was all designed for 400 mph not 300. Otherwise it was a great design. Something like a big load carrying Mosquito.
My grandfather was in the US 4th Infantry Division during WW2 and said the Thunderbolt was his favorite airplane. He said that whenever those came over he know that his unit was going to be OK and the enemy was going to have a bad day.
I never realized just how absolutely massive the P-47 is!
Thanks for this video. My Dad was a Jug driver in the 404th Fighter Group. They shot up a lot of trains and convoys and other targets of opportunity, as well as providing close support for ground troops. He came back with flak damage and bullet holes a number of times. I'm still in touch with (I think) the last surviving pilot from the 404th. He hopes to make it to Normandy next year when he is 102, eighty years after they flew cover for D-Day.
I hope your Dad makes it back to Normandy as well for the 80th Anniversary of D-Day. I bet he has some interesting stories to tell!
How fast time in this life flies by.
God, it seems like just a couple years ago Ronald Reagan was at Normandy to speak at the 40th anniversary of D-Day. It sure goes fast. God bless our Greatest Generation.
I went to the Normandy beaches last year. It had been a dream of mine for a long time. When we got there it was sunny and tons of people were out there sunbathing.. Definitely different than expected. ha
I'm in Sydney Australia. I recently had a privilege of watching a Thunderbolt do a flyover in the suburb of campbelltown with other single seater fighters of the same era. They were flying formation, to where I don't know, but the Thunderbolt was easily and unmistakenly recognisable, and TWICE the size of the other fighters. Everyone in the town center stopped, looked up, and then stood watching this.
She's a Beastial Goliath, and worthy of her stature.
"Edited"
She was in the 2nd row, flying V, and she literally dwarfed everything around her in size,
She is a complete monster compared to others in scale.
If you get a chance, go see one. You'll get it.
It's shocking to see an actual size difference in person. The P47 was indeed a big girl and the engine is an absolute beast
Duxford is one of my favourite places to visit when in the UK from Australia.
Love your work 👍
If your American visiting London, Duxford ,Shutttleworth, and ex 8th airfields are an easy, well worth visit.
I'd fit the mosquito museum in too.
They're all relatively close together, hire a car and go exploring.
@@gar6446Totally agree. I’m also Australian.
Very nice and respectful video on the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt. Thank you for sharing. The P-47 is my all time favorite fighter plane of WWII. It was the predecessor of what defines a multi role fighter today. Granted its not the sexy beast a P-51 Mustang certainly is, but the Thunderbolt earned its reputation as a rugged fighter that could mix it up with the best of them, come home and crews loved it. Many feel the P-51Mustang stole some of the credit the Thunderbolt really deserved early in the airwar when the German Luftwaffe was more of a serious threat.
The razorbacks are unpleasant looking. The Ds look great. It was derived from the p 36.
P-47 is the plane most responsible to Air Superiority of Western Europe, unless you count the B-17s and B-24 the Luftwaffe were forced to come up to fight.
@rogersmith7396 I think you meant the p35, as the p36 is a Curtiss design that later led to the p40, the Severesky p35 and later Republic p43 are the predecessor to p47
The Republic P-47M model was the fastest production piston powered fighter plane of WWII. It had a war emergency power that provided it with a top speed of 487 mph at 25,000 feet thanks to its 2,800 horsepower Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp engine with methanol water injection. They arrived too late to see much action in the European Theater, but they did actually saw combat in the Pacific Theater of Operations against the Japanese. The P-47M was a further development of the Republic XP-47J Superbolt, which had achieved a top speed of 505 mph during testing. Both shared the same engine and methanol water injection system. The P-47M was heavier than the XP-47J Superbolt was, because the XP-47J was armed with only six 50 cals in the wings, whereas the P-47M had eight 50 cals in the wings, extra armour plate, which is why it was slower than the XP-47J Superbolt was.
@@huck69 My bad.
Gabby Gabresky flying the "JUG" was my childhood hero back in the '60s. What a pilot, What a plane!
Wow Gabby with 26.??? Gee we had Hurricane pilots with more against a better enemy
Well Gabby was 30+ behind a RAF pilot flying a Hurricane Read up about Pat Pattle
@@jacktattis High scoring US pilots were pulled from combat and brought back stateside to train replacement and give them the benefit of experience gained in combat. By the way, at the start of the Pacific War, when Hurricanes went up against the A6M Zero. they were decimated despite the fact that they were largely Battle of Brittan veterans.
@@scootergeorge7089 Yes they were however they learnt and by late 43 the Jap Airforce in Burma was destroyed
@@scootergeorge7089 Yes and the RAF had been doing that since 1940.41 Johnny Johnson 38 kills was taken off combat early
The later Thunderbolts like the one shown with paddle blade prop and water injection had excellent climb rates. It took that prop to effectively couple all the horsepower and make thrust out of it.
What is excellent? because at the last tests I have seen in 1944 the Jug was 3180 ft/min
@@jacktattis
D-20 and later would climb with a spitfire at lo altitude and walk away from it from middle to high altitude.
@@nattybumpo7156 Unless it can beat 5740 ft/min to 5000ft and 5080ft/min to 15000ft it was not in the hunt.
JL165 Spit IX Hucknall Oct 43 Merlin 66 25lbs boost, things like this not that the D20 could climb with the Spit
Verifiable Reports my friend
@@nattybumpo7156 Load of rubbish.
My friend's father flew Spitfires, one day he told me and his son the story on how he got shot down in a flak trap, and was saved from being shot out his parachute by a flight of Thunderbolts. He had the most respect for Thunderbolt pilots.
I helped restore the p47 in the American Air museum at Duxford. Way back in the early 90s as a volunteer at the time.
I have a great photo I took of that machine on the ground in 1991. I also spoke to the crew chief at the time who was a young woman. Never got her name. Maybe you worked with her.
They were beasts, and I've always loved their rugged appearance. Not pretty or sleek like spitfires or mustangs, but incredibly effective.
They were effective up high but as the fight was coming down below 25000ft /20000ft by Wars end they would have been in trouble. The new altitude is why the Spit MkXVI was built
@@jzsbff4801 No the Jug had an excellent kill ratio, when it was used up high. When it went to low level G/A etc it was in trouble. It was too large
I saw a video story of a pilot in a damaged P47 where a German fighter came up behind it and shot it to pieces, but it still kept flying. The German pilot flew next to him and shook his head in disbelief that the plane was still flying. Then the German got behind him again and again shot it to smithereens until he was out of ammo, and it still kept flying and made it back to base.
In Addition to that story , the German was an "Abbeville" Ace , after he expended ALL of his ammo into the "Still Flying" P47 , He flew right up Next to the thunderbolt , Shook his fist , Then SALUTED the Thunderbolt Pilot , then flew away . A True story
Similar story with I think it was the Wildcat against a Zero.
That was the American design strategy it seemed - get pilots home. By the end of the war they had plenty of surviving experienced pilots who could train others.
The best of the German best were increíble, but they were vastly outnumbered by inexperienced rookies. The average American pilot was far better trained and often more experienced.
The American pilot was Robert Johnson, he survived the war as the 2nd highest scoring American ace in the ETO.
That was ROBERT S. JOHNSON 28 VICTORY ACE...TRUE STORY THE MODEL WAS THE RAZORBACK AND IN MY OPINION IT WAS THE BEST...THE P51 MUSTANG THANKS TO ITS LIQUID COOLED ENGINE COULD AND WAS SHOT DOWN BY RIFLE CALIBER BULLETS...THE "JUG" COULD FLY AND IT DID WITH A PISTON SHOT AWAY BROUGHT YOU BACK TO BASE....
@@ret7army I read another story from Robert Johnson
He claims that he took on a Spitfire IX in a mock fight and beat it.
Rubbish No P47 could climb turn or Dive with any Spifire
The Ken Burns documentary about the second world war, simply titled "The War", featured a P47 pilot fairly prominently, his name was Quentin Aanenson. The description of what he went through is harrowing. Flying these may look like fun from this distance but the pilots really went through hell.
a great guy,left the war w nightmares and shaky hands when pouring coffee
Yeh..I seen dat.
Aaneson had his own 2 hour documentary on PBS; just recollections of him and his wife back in the States. I think it was called 'A Fighter Pilot's Story'.
Bloody hell Harrowing A pilot? hot food every night, a bed ,warm clothes, warm billet Try having a soldiers life My uncle from NZ went away in 1940 did not get back to 1945 Went through North Africa and was in Italy until the end
@@jacktattis it’s not a competition.
So proud of the planes. Love them all. So proud of all the airmen, ground crew, staff and support. Thank you to our British cousins for the honor of having a P47 on display. ❤.🇺🇸🇬🇧🇫🇷🇬🇮 honor and respect to all who served.
But.... The FASTEST piston engined fighter of WWII, (as well as the only one to exceed 500mph) was a P 47 J. I don´t think this clip from the IWM really gives the bird justice. It also had an exceptional roll rate. As for the ruggedness, as they used to say at the time, "if you want to impress your girlfriend, fly a P51 (Mustang) but if you want to see her again, fly a P47¨. My late Uncle Solon Kelley flew these with the 56th FG 1944-45. (he survived the war)
The TA 152 was slightly faster but it was experimental.
A 'Razorback' Jug, fully loaded---with drop tank, bombs & rockets---was one hellish brute to behold. ""BAD BOY"" says it all....Big Salute to your Uncle Kelley, from this humble & Appreciative American.
Dornier Do 335
@@bicbouy4126 Twin engine, never mass produced. Not a comparison.
@@itsjohndell I was replying to tarikwildman’s comment “the fastest piston engine fighter of WW2”
There’s no mention of how many engines
For those that want even more on the p47 Greg’s Airplanes and Automobile’s has a fantastic series on it. It helped me really love the thunderbolt. It was a great high altitude fighter with its turbocharger that contributed to the body being so large.
Hands down Greg is the best WW2 analyst around. And he said the Jug was IT !
@@peterbellini6102 Greg has ignored three WW2 tests that show the P47 did not have all those attributes he claims they had.
@@jacktattis He did 8 parts with cited sources, so in my mind, it was pretty exhaustive. You should list the tests you feel he omitted in the P-47 Thunderbolt - Pt. 8 Conclusions video in the comments.
@@jacktattisWere those tests early in the war or were they the final word in Thunderbolt capabilities and drawbacks? There was a lot of work done to improve the Jug throughout the war.
No. DON’T watch Greg’s video series on the P-47 if you want a proper understanding of the air war over Germany from early 1943 to the end of the war. Greg has read no history whatsoever and relies entirely on performance charts. He quite literally doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I know because I’ve had the debate with him and he backed down. Then he deleted my comments.
Greg has apparently accepted a challenge from historian James William ‘Bill’ Marshall to debate him some time in April. This was after he actually banned Marshall from posting anything on his channel.
His theories are crackpot and paranoid and easily riposted. He seems to have no idea of the actual history of USAAF operations, preferring to rely solely on test data and the idiotic notion that the USAAF senior commanders were trying their best to get everyone killed to further ‘doctrine’ (might as well call it communism…).
Greg is a historian of military equipment, rather than a historian. They are related and overlapping but they are far from the same thing. He’s managed to convince a whole generation of gullible people - mostly American gamers who don’t read books - that there was a conspiracy against the Thunderbolt and it has since become one of the biggest sources of disinformation on aircraft on the internet.
Awesome video!
P47 and B26 and A26 made a great team for the 9th. Great escort for medium bombers as P47s were always in the vicinity. B26s took out larger targets and P47s took out smaller targets. Uncle flew B26 and A26 over France and Germany.
We owe our aircraft so much, back then and today, thunderbolt was a shredder, my uncle Jack flew the F4 phantom in Vietnam when I was a kid, I loved that plane, great info and commentary. Thank you 🇺🇸
Thank you for you overview of an amazing aircraft. I was privileged to serve in a supporting role for the A-10A Thunderbolt, and can attest to it's ability to both deal and accept punishment. Love your content!
All 10 of the top fighter aces who flew P47s survived the war.. The same can't be said for other fighter aces.
best
Bruce Peek
My mentor pilot flew a P-47 Razorback of the 57th Fighter Group in N. Africa and Corsica. Their mission was logistically busting up N. Italy ..... anything that moved plus. His wing man forgot the water injection on and in a dive on a train in the Lower Alps promptly blew two jugs and the engine canopy off his ship. Flew an oily mess back to Corsica .....
The P-47 was one beast of a warfighting machine!
This is my favorite plane and one of my favorite pilots and top American ace of WWII in the ETO, ...Gabby Gabreski, flew one of these beasts with excellence. Thanks for the documentary report, ..well done.
his plane's name---HUN HUNTER
Heheheh… I like his moxie
P47 is my favourite airplane of all time.
The opposite of a Spit. The Swordfish is one of my favorites. Because.
A-10 shoulf have been Lightning II
Bf109 for me..i like german planes
@@SKILLED521 battleships sinker go brrrrrrt, I love the swordfish too
@@florencemodina6293 also Macchi C205 but as all italian planes,they were too few
Very well done. Thanks so much.
My pop was a Ball Turret Gunner, AKA Belly Gunner on a B-17 crew at the end of the war. He said his buds on the crews called the P-47 escorts Big Brother, and the P-51 Little Brother.
My grandfather was the turret gunner on a B-25 flying out of North Africa during the war. Years ago I asked him what his favorite fighter of the war was, and he told me the P-47. He loved it when they were escorted by Jugs.
If I ever go back to England, this museum will be on top of the list of places to go.
P-51, like the Me-109/Bf-109 was a sports car, where as the P-47 and the Fw-190 were tanks that could also go real fast.
That German Sports car shot down more allied planes than did any of your tanks
Great Report! Duxford must be like going back in time!
When the Jug got the paddle-propeller (44?) the climbing speed vastly improved.
Not that much
@@jacktattis it did improve by quite a respectable amount. It made a bigger improvement on engines with more power, due to the increased percentage in excess power. Thus, it helped even more on the D-25 and later, as they had 2,600 horsepower. The P-47 was still likely out-climbed at low altitude, though by a much smaller margin than in the past. At high altitude nothing could climb with it except the Spitfire Mk IX and some late 109s, but then you also had the P-47M, that could out-climb them. So yes, it helped a lot. The P-47 always had a good zoom-climb as well, which would help it a lot in aerial fights.
@@danraymond1253 These are various tests from 1942 to 0ct44
Jun18 -42 A.C. No 41-5902------- 2564ft/min to 5000ft
Sept 7-42 A.C. No 41-5937 -------2330 ft/min to 15000 ft
Dec 6-42 A.C. No 41- 5942 ------2700ft/min to 10000ft
28 Sep 43 P47D A.C. No 42- 74616 -------- 2305ft/min to 5000ft
11 Oct 43 P47D-10 A.C. No 43-75035 ------ 2870ft/min to 5000ft
06 Oct 44 P47D No Aircraft Number 3180 ft/min
And apart from the P47M/N the last was the best climb rate achieved
So the engine tweaks, water injection, Paddle Props did not really do that much However the Zoom climb was good
@@danraymond1253 The P_47 played no significant role in the war. It can be dismissed as an irrelevance.
Either way, the P-47 was soundly thrashed in climb by most late model Spitfires. Against the Mk XIV, it wasn't even close.
Beautiful presentation about a beautiful aircraft - the Jug.
Thank you! Great channel!
This plane was much larger and more expensive than the P-51 Mustang. It made sense for the USAAF to switch to the Mustang for that reason. If the Mustang had not been available, we would have been just fine with the P-47. In many ways it was a superior plane.
Agreed. But it wasn't just the cost of the aircraft, you also needed 50% more fuel than the Mustang, so 50% more tanker trucks, 50% more tanker boats, etc. etc. The P-47 was on the other hand cheaper for losing probably fewer pilots and airframes in similar circumstances.
@@lqr824 Ahhh the P47 lost 2600 in the G/A role that is 2600 pilots
@@jacktattis lost airframe doesn't mean lost pilot. The pilot can bailed out, or often planes had crush landings / battle damage after wich you can't repair it. And it also count as lost airframe.
@@slumzurIN 1943 during the transition from Spitfires to the P47 The P47 pilots challenged the Spitfire pilots to mock dogfights After 4 were lost in quick succession trying to turn with the Spits The mock fights were banned below 8000ft Those 4 pilots were lost at 5000 ft and less
It has never ceased to amaze me the arrogance of the new boys trying to teach men who flew with the Eagle Sqn how to fly.
Doing G/A they were at times less than that. There is no time to bail out doing almost 450 mph. So YES they lost 2600 pilots .
@@slumzur Not when the plane is 1000/2000 ft above the ground doing 400 mph in a dive You do know G/A is very very low.
My great uncle James Earl Hack flew the P47 over Germany. 22years old, over 40 missions.
Excellent stuff bro
One of my favorites too! Love the Corsair as well.
I did a presentation on this aircraft and it's engine for my class. It's a great aircraft.
My dad was a radio repairman and worked on B17s P47s and P51s. He told me how a 47 had returned with ears of corn inside the cowling. The pilot had fly low, he was being attacked.
Robert Johnson fly the 47 and it was a fearsome beast above 20,000.
The brazilian pilots, FAB the Brazilian Air Force, were also passionate about their P-47s. I remember a documentary here in Brazil a few years ago of one of our pilots, already very elderly, next to a P-47 saying "what an incredible machine!"
Mexicans also. "The Aztec Eagles" flew the Jug in the battles of the Philippines. (they were Mexican volunteers for WW2)
I had the pleasure of pulling TDY at one of those RAF bases in East Anglia. The hospitality of the people there was wonderful and quite memorable.
Well done. I enjoyed a full watch 👍🏻
Our family has a black & white photo of our Mom, who is pictured with a P-47 pin / badge on her lapel, while leaning over a P-47, of which she confirmed to us all, that she helped build many of during WW2 ...
Making her, one of what are now referred to, as a Rosie the Riveter ... 🛩 🛠 🔩 🗜 🇺🇸
My mom as well! She and her parents worked at the Republic Aircraft plant in Evansville, IN, during the war. My mom was very proud to have done her part during the war.
They did our country proud, thank them for their service:)
@@jackthorton10 ... Thank you for the kind words ... 🇺🇸 ...
@@johndilday1846 ... Don't know how I missed your feedback ... Your Mom sounds like a wonderful and loved Mom ... If I may say, I'm proud of her too ... BTW, I'm pretty sure my Mom worked in what may be known now as Willow Run, an area outside of Detroit ... Best regards ...
@@larryg.9187 Always, in remembrance of those who fought for the frontline... and the homefront, To the lifters of hearts of gold and mounds of courage, may they be honored just as much as our forefathers who took to the sky, air, and sea, and ring freedom and goodwill to a more accessible, and better world.
The P-47 was arguably the finest ground attack and air superiority combination in the War.
I wouldn't even say arguably. When pilots were given free reign to attack targets of opportunity, It absolutely wreaked havoc on German railways and transport systems.
@@boxhawk5070 - yeah but there’s always some asshole who will disagree no matter what you say.
Never hell even the MkIV Hurricane had more firepower / size And the USArmy did not call on the P47 at the Falaise Pocket that was RAF Typhoons
@@boxhawk5070 And lost 2600+ doing it in only 13 months Typhoons had been doing it 24 months and only lost 670 from Service entry
P47 down low as manoeuvrable as a Brick outhouse
great video as usual, many thanks
Thanks for this 👍✈️
P-47 my beloved.
Dad landed at Normandy the day after D Day. He said if the sky was clear there was usually a Thunderbolt in the sky above him. He said there seemed to be thousands of them everywhere. He also said 80 percent of fighter he saw were P47’s. There were P51’s late in the was and he saw few P38s.
Most planes he observed in France and Germany were bombers. For hours in the morning they went to Germany, then all afternoon they went back to England.
I always said if time travel were possible, I would go to France and watch 80 planes n a massive dog fight zooming around in a clear blue sky.
Your Dad must not have seen the RAF everywhere.
Now that I think of it, I do not remember him saying he saw RAF planes. But after the breakout at Caan he told me about seeing all their handiwork. The planes with rockets ate up the Germans as the moved south. The thing he would never forget was the smell of death. Soldiers horses and cows and burned out vehicles.
Interesting
Wonderful documentary. My dad was with the 56th-loved the Razorback.
I'm glad you mentioned about Unstrapping and running around, inside the "Plane", not only to avoid bullets, but to patch holes. I've heard that story many times. Yes the P-47, was not pretty, but she did a job. But do not forget the P-38. It was a beast in ground attack role also. I like your channel.
I really like the P47. I worked with a veteran pilot who flew on D Day. He alone survived the attack on trains munitions. He flew the P51 also but preferred the P47.
The a10 was a plane built around a gun the p47 was a plane built around a engine
The Republic P-47 Thunderbolt, Grumman F6F Hellcat, and Vought F4U Corsair were all built around the Wasp 2800 engine which was the most powerful radial engine ever made, so in a sense they were all variations of the same basic plane. Republic, Grumman, and Vought were all given the brand-new engine and instructed to build a plane around it. Republic put eight 50-cal machine guns in the wings which gave it the largest and heaviest wings of any WW2 fighter; Voight put on a massive 15-foot propeller which necessitated the famous bent-wings so the landing gear could accommodate the prop radius; and Grumman went the middle ground with a carrier-capable fighter with specs in between the other two.
Wonderful narration. ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Very well presented material. Brilliant.
I've followed the P-47 for decades but only in this video did I learn that the "D" models were produced in both the bubble canopy AND the razorback versions. It was stated about half of each for the D's. I always thought that the D's were only bubble canopies.
You forgot the Razorbacks modified with Spitfire style Malcom Hood canopys ;)
In Addition , There were a FEW that had "Malcom Hood Canopies" as well . Similar to the ones on British Spitfires
Only from D-25 RE onward the P47s had the bubble canopy. In Korea most pilots would've preferred having the Jugs more than the P51s, the former being less vulnerable to AA Fire.
@Alessio De Carolis Agreed
The P47 was phased out Way to yearly !
We flew the A1 spad in Nam and loved its firepower
And ruggedness .. just like
The P47
@@alessiodecarolis thats only true for Farmingdale RE built P-47D`s , Evansville built D-25 RA were Razorbacks and from D-26 RA onward Bubble tops.
for the 2nd part yes but the P-47 was much to expensive to run and needed more Menhour maintainance because of the big and complex Turbocharger, the P-51D/F-51D was much cheaper to run.
I had a great privilege to work an internship at a museum that now sits where the P47 was built. It was a huge shame when the museum's P47 was lost in a river landing in NYC.
My regards to Farmingdale!
Thanks for this.
Graham's standing beside the Spit and the Jug was an eye opener!
Thank you for this video!! I feel the P47 has been somewhat overlooked in WW2. Remember they were there very early and fought against Germanies best pilots flying well made airplane's. By the time alot of the newer aircraft arrived, most of all the best German pilots had been killed by P47s. By the time Mustangs arrived they were fighting mostly poorly trained pilots with low hours fighting in poorly built aircraft because by then there factories had been destroyed and they were building them outside in forests hidden by the trees. The P47 may have started with 2 thousand HP but quickly kept increasing HP winding up with almost 3 thousand HP by the end of the war ! This was done with ever increasing octane, water injection and I think they were using nitrous oxide also. There was a saying, if you want to become an Ace and live to tell about it, you better be flying a P47. It had the record for sending more aces home alive than any other fighter of the war.
AMEN!!!!!!
The Grumman F6-F Hellcat was the number 1 ace maker of all time
April 1943 is NOT early 1939 is early and the RAF/ Friends with Hurricanes which went out of Front line service in 42 had 1200+ kills against a very strong Luftwaffe
@@jacktattis Hurricanes got to attack Luftwaffe bombers while the Spitfires kept the 109s busy. When did P47s get to rack up scores on big fleets of Luftwaffe bombers while on the defense over friendly territory?
@@goldleader6074 I have no idea
Being air cooled, radial engine meant that it could take a lot of abuse and still fly. The P51, being liquid cooled was done for if radiator was breached by enemy bullets.
Read a report once ,that a P47 returned to Halesworth Airfield in UK with 3 CYLINDERS shot off the engine , but still managed to keep running , somehow ! the R 2800 was a Remarkable Engine
@@Wilett614 Yes it is always I read somewhere. Now just on this site 3 cylinders shot off, 1 cylinder shot off, Tree Branches, Bricks . Give us Tech reports the such as I get in my Morgan and Shacklady Spitfire the History .
Great video thanks
Been to Duxford a few times. Really worth the visits. One can spend a full day there.
I might suggest added subtitles in the future for the audio from WW2 veterans. The audio quality makes it difficult to hear. Other than that, love the video! I greatly enjoy watching IWM videos with my breakfast.
The Jug also had a very good roll rate. Any opponent that could outturn the jug (which is "every opponent") could not match the jug's roll rate if its pilot decided to leave the plane of the turn to begin another turn.
Thunderbolt, by Robert Johnson, is an excellent read. LOL at the part where he is victorious over a Spitfire pilot during a mock dogfight.
Notably, the newest variant of the Spit at the time, the Mk. IX.
That roll rate was probably helped by the huge torque of the big radial engine. No doubt the pilots learned to use the normally undesirable phenomenon of "torque roll" to their advantage.
Did Johnson mention the date, the Sqn the Spitfire was from
@@rossanderson4440 I think Johnson was full of himself No Jug could fly as high, dive as far, climb as fast, turn as tight ,roll as fast as the MkIX .
Fw 190 had the fastest roll rate
My first viewing of this channel. Great stuff. Wonderful narration. Makes me want to come visit personally, grab a pint and talk Spitfires and Thunderbolts.
Great documentary 👍
A guy from my hometown, Gabby Gabreski did well in this plane I believe he may have been the top ace in Europe.
He was the USAAF top ace yes
You hit almost all the right points. Im just surprised the superior high altitude performance was not mentioned.
Where was it superior? P47D10 Oct44 Test at Wright Field Climb Rate was 450 ft/min @32000 ft Spit MkVIII 1440 ft/min @35000ft
AND the Jug could "OUTDIVE" Any fighter in the second world war . "Hell from above" if you were an Enemy plane at lower altitude . A P47 after the war, actually Broke the sound Barrier in a Power Dive . I know someone who witnessed that event. Incredible !
@@Wilett614 Power dive and at what speed was it going?
Always loved these. Had no idea they were so massive.
I live in the town where the Thunderbolts were built. It's so much fun watching videos of the history of that plane. One of the last remaining ones (Tarheel Hal) just came to our Wartime Museum.
3 planes used the R2800. The P47, F4U, and the F6F. The F6F wasn't much smaller and, in fact, had larger wings to allow for carrier use.
plus P-61Black widow and B-26 Marauder
YOU forgot , The North American A26 INVADER had TWO R2800 engines !! Also the Navy F7
Twin engine Tiger CAT had Twin R 2800 s although they came very late in the war .
I watched an episode of "Dog Fights" back in 2006 or '07 that had actual pilots talking about their combat experiences in various WW2, Korea, and Vietnam aircraft and a Thunderbolt pilot talked of how a German at his six was shooting at him unchallenged while he was limping his damaged P-47 home. He peppered the Jug with all he had but eventually ran out of bullets and let him go.
Very good review...!
I had a metal toy one when I was 8, I loved that toy. Everything I've ever flown has been an aircooled engine since. Spit is still my favoutite. Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.
The newly created USAF sorely missed the Thunderbolt when the Korean War broke out since it was much more suited to CAS for ground troops.
Nobody would expect it to duel MIGs,but it could have been of great use against Chinese human wave attacks.
I believe i read something a while back that they chose the Mustang because it was primarily based on the West coast before the Korean conflict and it was easier to ship over. But that the 47 was indeed a much better choice.
@@justinthomas85 That and there was a push for the Mustang by the Army and Airforce higher ups(I forget why that was). The Navy and marines on the other hand refused to move on to more updated aircraft and kept the Corsair which was similar to the P47 in its role
I don't know they did have the Skyraider in Korea
The razorback jug is the most gangster-looking bird of WW2
Great video...👍
Thank you for an excellent article.
@ 5:10, The 56th FG was the only group in the *8th AF* to keep their jugs to the end of the war, but the 9th AF had something like 13 groups of P-47s in northern Europe till the end of the war and the 15th AF had 3 more in Italy. By March of 1944, improvements to the jug like the paddle-bladed props and water injection meant that the jugs COULD out climb the FW190. Read Bob Johnson's "Thunderbolt" for a first person account of this.
They were predominantly escort, and had all day to get up to a high altitude before any fight started. The 109's came up mainly from below. Climb speed wasn't important in this scenario. ZOOM climb was probably more important than climb, and since the 47 could out-dive anything it could also out-climb anything when zoom climbing. So it did. And the skies were swept of the Luftwaffe. (Yes the 47s were later ground attack but only at a point that there just wasn't much Luftwaffe left to threaten them.)
@@lqr824 The P47 COULD NOT OUT DIVE ANYTHING Its T/M was 0.72 the Fw190 0.75 and all Spits 0.84+
So now it is Johnson outclimbing a FW190 Zoom climb maybe, normal climb it would be struggling I heard that Johnson said he outclimbed a MkIX Spitfire rubbish then rubbish now
@@jacktattis First, there are more ways to quantify dive than just mach numbers, e.g. acceleration where the P-47 was apparently top. Corsair I think could do a steeper dive with dive flaps, or landing gear doors? I forget, but regardless, most other planes couldn't follow it if it did that: it may not dive the fastest, but other planes couldn't dive that steeply? I may have the wrong plane but hopefully this example at least illustrates my point.
Second, there is the situation: an FW-190 and a Spitfire are only up in the air to shoot down bombers, and further have just launched so often will be coming up to altitude. They cannot simply dive fast without basically ignoring their mission. A P-47 is flying escort, has been in the air an hour, has had all that time to get quite high if they choose, they make great power up high, so they can fly above bombers and dive onto interceptors, faster than the interceptors can ever really dive in practice. Likewise, the fast dive can be followed by a zoom climb, so the early 47's bad climb statistics wouldn't necessarily have been a hinderance. If both an early 47 and a 190 start from the ground, the 190 would surely gain altitude faster. But if a 190 has been climbing at their best climb rate, which might only leave enough power for 200mph or something of forward progress, a P47 can both dive down on them at 550mph, then continue to zoom back up at I'd guess 3-4x the 190's climb rate, at least until the 47 burns off the excess speed.
@@lqr824 Mach Numbers is what Doolittle wanted because the P38 and P47 were being lost in the dive
Look I do not care whether you believe it or Not Tests were conducted in ww2 and the P47 was relegated to other duties END OF STORY
Once it reached 0.73 IT WAS BREAKING APART
Steeper what is steeper? 0.71 is 0.71 regardless of what angle it dived at.
You are dense Spitfire up there to shoot down bombers Where are you getting your info? Certainly NOT from any credible source
Go to WW2 Aircraft Performance and scroll through Spit VIII and Spit IX ACTION REPORTS and then come back and tell us that they only shot down Bombers
P47s flying escort were doing what you describe and were breaking up That is why RAE fARNBOROUGH DID THE TESTS And RAE pilots were taking the planes a hell of a lot more stress than even in Combat
She's a strongun . A legend. And you'd have been dam sure to have been glad it was on your side.! What a machine . 💛👊💛👍
In your minds It was too large its wing Loading was too high
@@jacktattis what you mean the English? 😉
@@Free-Bodge79 No your P47
@@jacktattis in my mind it was a tool, that did it's job, served it's country and the men that flew it well. Happy days ay. 👊👍
I flew from Toronto to attend Duxford and it was awesome. Well worth the trip, and I'll do it again. All I could think of were the heroes in whose steps I might have been walking, including Galland and Moll.
My father 1st Lt Edward Lopez of the 365th fighter group aka The Hell Hawks flew more than 100 missions in the P-47 and absolutely loved the aircraft over all others. He just celebrated his 100th birthday 4 weeks ago and still tells his tails of the Battle of the Bulge and many other battles he was involved in.
My father flew 104 with the 358th FG went home in Oct 44 and was a test pilot on the N model
I knew several guys who’s fathers flew the Thunderbolt in the war and they preferred it to the Mustang because it could take so much more damage and still get you home.
Yeah everyone says they know someone who liked the P-47 better. Funny how nobody knows any Mustang pilots...
Also funny how it's not reflected in historical record.
It's like the old saying here in the post war period that there were enough pieces of the first Zero shot down over Australia to sink a battleship.
*Captain Robert S. Johnson* wrote in his book he flew them all and there was not an aircraft in the entire *ETO* that could hang with his *"Good Ol Jug"* and its *Paddle-Blade Prop* in a *_Zoom Climb._*
P-38L.
aND AT WHAT ALTITUDE was he when he started his Zoom climb The Bf109K4 would be at 41000 ft well before Bob could get into position
That fight with a Spitfire was lies then and lies now. Roberto could never ever outclimb the Spitfire Spit 43000+ ft P47 nudging 38000ft and struggling
So the Spit has passed the P47 service ceiling with 5000 ft to go Up comes Bob struggling and next thing the Spit is flying rings around him and back up to 43000 ft +
Those Paddle props are spinning but not going anywhere The Spits are just in and out, up and down and watching Robert try but unable to do anything
The Spit goes to Absolute ceiling the Pilot takes out his flask and has a cup of tea with Scones and cream Poor Bob is frustrated and has been given a lesson on flying .
LOL, nonsense. Spit IX with 150 octane in '44 could leave every other prop job behind in a climb.
I was privileged to live near a WW2 pilot vet when young. He flew the P-47 and P-51. When asked to compare and talk about the P-47's armor and strength, his response one time was, "Imagine you could dart around fast and not get hit. That was the P-51." I've always been exceptionally fond of the 47.
Well done. Thanks
Outstanding aircraft. I’m sure P-47 had the same engine as the hellcat and corsair.
That it does. Also the F8F Bearcat and F7F Tigercat.
Et Tomcat....
But only the P-47 was equipped with the General Electric B series turbocharger, for high altitude performance.