The most produced Bomber in history had a bad reputation | B-24 Liberator
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2023
- At the start of 1939, the United States Army Air Corps wanted more of its favourite aircraft, the B-17 Flying Fortress. Consolidated took one look at the B-17 and decided they could do better. They responded with a proposal for a new aircraft which could fly faster, further, higher, and carry more bombs. The United States Army Air Corps could hardly refuse, and the prototype took flight in December 1939. Named for the role it was intended to play in the war to come, the aircraft would play a key role in America’s bombing effort around the world and become the most produced American military aircraft of all time. The B-24 Liberator.
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CORRECTION: In the beginning of this video, we said that the B-24 Liberator is the most produced military aircraft of all time. This is not correct. The B-24 is the most produced bomber of all time, but the most produced military aircraft of all time is the Ilyushin Il-2 Sturmovik.
I was just about to comment on that. Glad you caught it.
The Soviet Union lied about everything. not lying could get a person killed.
No worries 🙂
You caught and corrected the mistake halfway through your excellent video. A plane I knew very little about. Thank you.
Thank you
My grandmother was a warbride for a co-pilot that flew B-24s. He was killed over Austria in January 1945. Supposedly, he was filling in with different crews beyond his own, flying extra missions to fill his quota and get back to her sooner. He died on one such mission. My grandmother remarried after the war, but remained in close contact with his parents.
RIP 2nd Lt. August Albregts. I wouldn't exist without your sacrifice.
sounds like straight of a series called catch-22 where a bombardier is filling in extra missions to get back but never does, they always raise the mission quota
@@Schneizel00
And also a book. Lol.
Kind of like how Hamlet is "also" a play.
My dad, James H. Link, was a tail gunner on B-24s. Flew quite a few different planes as depending on damage from missions, you could end up in a different plane on your next mission. One of his planes I remember was the "Ain't Mis Behavin'". Flew out of North Africa and Italy. Was shot down and spent 8 months as a POW. Moved often on trains to different camps. Was in Stalag Luft III where some time before he was there, the Great Escape took place. Never talked much about any of WWII and I'm sure suffered from PTSD most of his life. I'm honored to be his son. A good man.
Respect to your dad and all veterans.
My grandfather was an infantryman in North Africa and Sicily and slated for the invasion of Japan. Thanks to Oppenheimer he survived the war. He didn't say anything about the war until a few years before he passed at age 85.
My father fought in WW2 and I have no doubt it affected the rest of his life. For 1 thing he hated Spam wouldn't let it in the house.
My uncle was there also flew on a B-24 with the 454 bomb wing Martin Farrell was his name and he was a waist gunner. Shot down only survivor on his plane.They were bombing the oil fields
@@randallraszick6001 my grandfathers brother was in the Royal Navy and did the north artic supply runs to russia, then his ship did escort service to malta, where it was torpedod, he survived but was caught by an italian fisherman and handed over to the germans. where he was a POW until the end of the war. he never said anything about his experience except for once, when he told his story to an author writing a book from different survivors perspectives. As far as i know this was the one and only time he spoke about it sadly now deceased my mother has a copy of the book, so at least his memory lives on.
The reputation between the B-24 and the B-17 is kind of like the reputation between the Hurricane and the Spitfire during the Battle of Britain. The B-24 like the Hurricane was more numerous and did the majority of the work but the B-17 like the Spitfire gets all the glory.
True. Another one to compare on which would be better would be the p51 Mustang or F4U Corsair.
No, the B-24 was the high performance airplane. Faster and carried a larger bomb load. It took three B-17s to carry the same bomb load as two B-24s.
The B-17 could take more punishment (battle damage) than the B-24 especially the wings, which is why the crews liked the B-17 better. I spoke to the pilot of the Collings Foundation's B-24 and he said flying the Liberator was like flying a freight train compared to the Flying Fortress.
@@yoehonjohn4832 Imho P47 is more appropriate since the Corsair was a carrier fighter. The P47 was in service much earlier than the P51, and with aux tanks and judicious use of the throttle the P47 had more than sufficient range.
It's more about location. The unique requirements of the war over NW Europe happened to be conducive to the B-17, in the MTO and particularly the Pacific the Liberator was superior with it's longer range.
During and after the war, the VIIIth AF got the most publicity so the B-17 was more retained in popular memory.
My father was a B-24 pilot in WWII, flying their B-24 from the factory over to England. Named Superstitious Aloysius PJ 42-52673 in the 486th BG, 833rd at Sudbury England. A few months later the unit transitioned to B17-Gs, also named Superstitious Aloysius PR 42-97968. Completed 30 missions then home.
The Liberator did a great job for RAF Coastal Command.
Brought my dad back home safely.
Am glad to here that !
The video has a veteran stating the Yanks only sent 4 over; most histories of the Bomber war state Bomber Harris refused to release B-24s to Coastal Command, due to his fixation with winning the war by bombing German cities to rubble. The dig about the Ploesti raid being a failure also is a subtle denigration of the American's fixation on bombing oil and transportation facilities, which deprived the German military of the fuel necessary to move tanks, and fly aircraft This especially limited training of replacement pilots, for the Luftwaffe fighters the American daylight fighters (the P-51 especially) were sweeping from the skies, starting in early 1944....
@@michaelcevasco3587 I dont think Harris preferred the B24 He would not release Lancasters
My uncle died in a B-24 attack on the Skoda Armsworks in CZ in 1944. I got to ride in a B-24 a few years ago and it totally boosted my respect for the men that served in these planes.
The Consolidated B-24 was a fantastic aircraft but never reached the popularity of the B-17, the rivalry was similar to Lancaster and Halifax. My wifes father flew on the last B-24 mission of WW2 when the 392nd Bomb Group attacked Hallein Austria April 25 1945. He went on to work for Consolidated in San Diego, then renamed Convair, he helped build the F-102A Delta Dagger.
Always liked the F-102 & it's variants.
Dad's dad was a waist turret gunner on B-24's out of Italy and we're lucky to have a photograph of their crew. He kept in touch with the tail gunner for 50 years after the war, then Dad picked up the conversation. Most people aren't necessarily familiar with the aircraft. Thanks for keeping the physical plane and its legacy.
Waist gunners on the Liberator didn't have a turret.
I manned the waistgunner position on Diamond Lil last month - the only B-24 still flying/ I was amazed how tough it was to hold it aimed forward, I'd never considered the wind resistance on the barrel before. It was an amazing experience, that they hit anything from there shows how good they were!
@@garywayne6083 : I thought the B-24 "Witchcraft" is still flying as well. No?
@@tempestfury8324 It may be but all recent info I found about it on the net listed it as airworthy but not currently flying
Interesting, my father 35 missions as a bombardier with the 455th BG 720 sqd out of Italy, maybe they knew each other. His best friend..... the nose gunner.
My great uncle, Flying Officer VE Crowther RNZAF was an Observer with 224 squadron he did his training in Canada and he became the squadron bombing leader. He flew in an RAF Liberator MK3A, which was basically a B24D in RAF camouflage, it was fitted with the then top secret ASV radar. He and 5 other members of his crew died in an air accident on 30th October 1942. The tail gunner was the only survivor.
We must remember all the aircrews that made the ultimate sacrifice during WW2.
My uncle, Robert, was navigator on B-24s with the 458th BG (H) out of Horsham St. Faith. He was killed on the last mission of the Group on April 14th, 1945. Eleven days later, the 458th returned to the U.S. to begin training on B-29s in preparation for deployment to the Pacific Theater. I've always been fascinated by the Liberator because of my uncle's service. Thanks for the great video.
You are right to research and to pass on to your family the history of your Uncle, and to honour him, he deserves all of that and more.
My father was a waist gunner in a B-24 for 48 missions out of Foggia, Italy. On that mission an explosion from a nearby 88 mm shell turned the fuel delivery system into a sprinkler system. Pilot declared it was every man for himself. My father was the first man out of the plane, spent 14 days wandering around the countryside before being picked up by the Czech underground. Later the underground group was captured along with my Dad and my Dad spent the rest of the war in a German POW camp . My Dad was part of the greatest generation. RIP Guy LaFata
The lens being cleaned at 4:05 is a “Leylight”. They had one on each wing angled to focus at the bomb aiming point. The radar would lose the Uboat at a predictable distance where the lights were powered up. Pilot kept going straight. Bombs released when the conning tower appeared in the crossed beams almost always scored a hit. They were so effective that Uboat crews believed there was a special weapon in use.
RN listening stations used radio direction finding to determine location of U-boats radio signals. A bomber was directed in and used radar to find the surfaced sub.
I hate to do this, but... It's actually called a Leigh light, created by Wing Commander Humphrey de Verd Leigh. There was only one mounted on the aircraft, to illuminate ahead of the airplane. Your description of the crossed beams sounds more like the height finding downward lights of the Dambusters. Sorry to be pedantic, but I feel that accurate info is better.
@@doolie1779 As do I
Even with its faults the B-24 was a very good aircraft for it's intended purposes. A close family friend was the copilot on a B-24 called "Delectable Doris" and managed to complete the 25 mission requirement and was rewarded with the 8th Air Forces "Lucky Bastard" certificate. My God, those men were so brave flying those missions - they truly did help "liberate" the world from Nazism and Fascism.
For all her faults she was like the Sherman tank, they could be built in record time.
The Willow Run factory was turning out one B-14 every 55 minutes. @@garysilver718
B-24. Excuse my 70+ year old fingers.
The 8th Air Force alone suffered more casualties than USMC for the entire war in the Pacific. I’ve spoken with some 8 AF Veterans. All they ever said was “We had a job to do”. Courageous and humble.
@@richardbriscoe8563The Soviets did all the real work. Over 20 million Soviets died in WWII. China too. Millions of Chinese died fighting the Japanese. The US doesn't know sacrifice or bravery
I had a friend who flew B-24’s, but he said the day they saved his life was when he was given a B-17. He was shot down over Yugoslavia, and said that he was able to escape the plane versus the difficulties of getting out of a B-24 would have been fatal for him.
My dad was a B-24 bombardier, in the 15th Air Force, flying out of Southern Italy in 1944. He flew combat missions in two different aircraft, because the first was destroyed in a crashlanding coming back from yet another raid on Ploesti. Interestingly, even that late in the war, the flak and fighter defense at Ploesti was so extreme that raids there counted as two missions in reaching the required total of 35 before cycling back to the States.
You had a great Dad!
My Dad was also a B24 Bombardier in the 15th Army Air Corps 1944-45, based in Bari, Italy. Shot down in Austria March 1945, POW about 1 week before escaping with the rest of the crew. I hope your Dad & mine were friends. They sure were the greatest generation!
The floating mission number. Early in the war it was 25 bombing mission to complete your tour. Here you speak of 35 to go home. My father's crew arrived in England on 5 June, 1944 (what a day to show up?) and needed to complete 50 missions by that point in the war.
Awesome, he may have known my father a 24 bombardier 455th BG 720 squadron, 35 and home. I'm proof of that, I was with him in his nut sack!
@@cdjhyoung 50? unless Col Cathcart had anything to say about it
The best depiction I've seen on a topic I'd been hearing about since I was a boy. This is because my Dad's brother and sister along with her husband built this plane in San Diego. Also, my Grandfather, John Nicholas Bergen was a foreman for Consolidated, building PBYs. He had a third grade education, but with a genius for metalworking that made him invaluable. You say ?David Davis? designed the plane? As I heard it, the plan was to give top priority to the Davis Wing, and next to the bomb bay with particular concern about the frustrating bomb bay doors that ruined flight trim characteristics at the worst possible time. That is opening flap type doors while the craft begins its bomb run. So, he? was determined to use a roll top desk approach. Only the prototype lost these roll top doors when they blew off. Time again they tried everything and failed even referring to the top aeronautical engineers. It all failed, so at a last resort, they reluctantly got my irascible Grandpa. I've many times heard him comment on the engineers he deplored... "They beat me over the head with their sheep skins, but in the end I do their job for them!" With Grandpa it was a brag that he'd so often backed up. So it was that he designed the production doors for that plane and went back to making PBYs.
I always liked the B-24 over the 17. I got a model B-24 for my birthday years ago. I did a bunch of research on it. She flew the 376 BG out of Benghazi libya., i contacted the 376 BG historical society, and they put me in contact with Col. Kieth Compton. We talked on the phone for a long time, he had tome interesting stories. He said his whole crew were volunteers who were scheduled to go home. On their way in to Polesti he said they were flying so low, the gunners were shooting up at the german haystack and train gunners. He told me that they would havr to pull up to clear field fences and when they got home the crew were pulling corn cobs out from inside the engine cowling.
Rest in peace General Compton and thank you.
My dad was the nose gunner on a b24, the Shady Lady. He flew 36 missions out of southeast England. 1 crash, 1 very close call when a piece of flack came within inches of cutting him in half but he came home without a scratch. I asked him once were you scared? He said he was scared for the first 3 missions but after that he wasn’t scared because he knew they would never make it through all 35 missions. It was just a matter of when your luck was up.
Speaking of Ford and Willow Run -
Ford was to build B-24s under license from Consolidated.
Ford execs met with Consolidated execs in California. The Ford execs brought a suitcase to a meeting with Consolidated.
Consolidated asked, "What's the suitcase for?"
To which Ford replied, "To take copies of the blueprints back to Willow Run"
Consolidated laughed. They gave Ford a copy of the blueprints, but it took a railroad boxcar to hold all of the plans.
I hope this is true.
It's true.
There's a excellent book detailing how the US became the arsenal of democracy.
Check out "Freedom's Forge: How American Business Produced Victory in World War II" by Arthur Herman.
A full railroad box car is probably an exaggeration but probably not by much. Have you ever seen the manufacturing blueprints and plans for a rifle? Let's just say they couldn't fit in a briefcase. Dozens of separate booklets and schematics. Thousands and thousands of pages. This isn't a rifle but a big plane.
Dad served in Southern Italy, ball turret gunner in a B-24, in the 15th Air Force. Suffered from PTSD untreated all his life. Bombed jets in Czech Republic, Austria, and the oil fields of Polesti. During VN, he didn't say anything about service, left it up to me. He died at 63. Massive respect Dad, served as a gunner until discharged.
BG Steve Ritchie, the USAF pilot ace in Vietnam, interviewed a WW I pilot as part of a living history series. He asked the WW I pilot if he had nightmares and when the last one was. He replied “Last night”.
My father had nightmares and you could see him still flying the aircraft.
My great grandfather flew B-24`s in the war. They crashed multiple times and each time the whole crew survived. His flight group has a museum in the UK
My mother Gertude Fraser rivited every B24 that left Willow Run built in Ypsilanti, Mi in WWll. She never missed a day. I was at the airport a few years ago, the Yankee Air Muesum people were building another B24 from parts of planes gathered and made in all the diffeent plants the planes were made at, the side panels were the only part made at Willow Run that was collected, thats the parts my mother said she made, I got to rub a panel that day, it was amazing, of course I was tearing up, what a great experience. I haven't heard if the plane was completed, when it is finished it will be the last B24 to be built at Willow Run. The coolest thing for me is my Mother got to build part of that one too.Thanx for posting.
An old friend of my dad was a gunner on Coastal Command Liberators during the war. When he found out I was joining the RAF we had a great chat about his time on Liberators and Sunderlands. He even showed me his log book. Unfortunately he passed away not long after I joined.
My father was a belly gunner in the B-24 for the RAF, flying out of India. His plane was shot down over North Africa. Luckily, they were able to bailout behind friendly lines. One of his crew didn’t survive. After being sent to Montgomery’s Army, only two of his original crew survived the war. That is all we know of his experience in WW2, he wouldn’t talk about it and we never pressed him on it. He loved that Liberator!
The great Squadron Leader Bulloch points out how the US was slow in getting B-24s to Coastal Command but the author Alfred Price has pointed out that Air Marshall Harris would never release four engine aircraft destined for Bomber Command to Coastal Command. One nights losses of Lancaster or Halifax bombers could have greatly helped close the Atlantic Gap. This would have made a better contribution to the Battle of the Atlantic in the early to mid war years then the aircraft being lost over Germany. By the way, I have the utmost respect for Terrance Bulloch.
Early in the war the RAF had absolute control over all aircraft. That is why the aircraft carriers of the royal Navy had the most god-awful aircraft to go to war with. Bomber Harris was a good man but had dangerous tunnel vision when it came to aircraft and where to use them.
A great video , shedding light on an aircraft that deserves more recognition for its efforts during the second world war.
She's my favorite.
1:00 "and became the most-produced military aircraft of all time"
1 Ilyushin Il-2 - 36,183.
2 Messerschmitt Bf 109 - 34,852. ...
3 Supermarine Spitfire/Seafire - 22,685. ...
4 Focke-Wulf Fw 190 - 20,051. ...
5 Polikarpov Po-2 - 20,000 to 30,000. ...
6 B-24 Liberator - 18,482.
Yeah, that was a bit of a goof.
"The B-24 was just as good as the B-17, but the B-17 had a better press agent." Jimmy Stewart, actor and B-24 Pilot.
Damage control over the abysmal failure of the air force brass in sending hundreds of bombers unescorted and losing over a hundred planes and thousands of crew members on totally failed raids in 1943. After that, it was publicity campaign and movies such as Memphis Belle to boost the public perception of a terribly flawed concept.
Memphis Belle was about the air crews 25th mission, how they would fly it and then be able to go home. But the truth is, dozens of its crew were killed on previous missions and only one or two members were reaching their 25th mission. And many others not in the film flew at many as 80 missions after being told 25 was the limit.
@@jj4791 My friend was a Master Sergeant in the Air Force Reserves. He was also a teacher, administrator and had a master's degree in history. He said he read a paper where the US could have used Mosquitos instead of Heavy Bombers for tactical bombing instead of strategic bombing to greater effect. 3 Mosquitos could carry the same amount of bombs as 2 B-17's, but with only 6 crews instead of 30. The Mosquito could also outrun most German fighters and being made of wood were less susceptible to cannon fire. They were also easier to repair. So instead of bombing German industry, which was questionable, you used Mosquitos to bomb barracks, supply depots, rail roads and fuel depots. You can build all the planes you want but what good are they if they get blown up waiting to be delivered or have no one to fly them or fuel them.
@@jj4791 Yeah, thanks Col Cathcart
@@johnharris6655 It was the top brass who didn't like the idea of their Air Force using foreign planes. They didn't even like the addition of the Merlin engine in the P 51 even. Had to have Packard build them under license. (even though I was told that the Packards were better than the Rolls Royce Merlins)
@@jj4791
*_”Damage control over the abysmal failure of the air force brass in sending hundreds of bombers unescorted and losing over a hundred planes and thousands of crew members on totally failed raids in 1943.”_*
Your maths aren’t up to much. ‘Over a hundred planes’ doesn’t equal ‘thousands of crew members’. Over a thousand maybe but many survived.
And realistically, what choice did they have?
Please give an example of ‘totally failed raids in 1943’.
My uncle flew all-black, unmarked B-24 Liberators for the Top-Secret 801st/492nd Bombardment Group, “Carpetbaggers”, which was operated by the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), predecessor of the CIA. He admitted to me late in life when he was in his 90s that he did indeed land behind German lines at night many times to drop off supplies for the underground, pickup downed aircrews, drop off Allied agents, etc. The aircraft did the job!
Thank you for an honest look at the B-24 (Finally). My uncle was a pilot who flew missions out of Rackheath with the 467th BG and finished the war there. He was hoping to go to the Pacific and get behind the controls of the B-29 but it was not to be. In the Pacific the B-24 was the go to at first because the B-17 simply did not have the "legs."
My grandfather was co-pilot with the 467th out of Rackheath. I have a book about the 467th, you can find every mission flow, plane #, etc. It is based on the pilots name. My grandfathers regular plane was pathfinder, he often got bumped to other planes as some higher ups rode co-pilot. Hard to track his missions. Some of the stories i heard are documented in the book.
When I worked for General Dynamics at Lindberg Field in the early 80s, I met some PBY designers in our Lines and Loft department. When I asked about the extremely long tables in that department, one of the old guard engineers took me to the blueprint storage locker. He pulled out a full-scale wing drawing of a PBY and rolled it onto the 75-foot-long table. Lead weights with nails held the blueprint to the tabletop. The engineer told me that Consolidated Aircraft (pre-Gen. Dyn.) produced a flying PBY aircraft every eight hours during the war. The finished plane would roll across the runway toward San Diego Bay and would fly away to its intended destination. At the time, I was working on a top-secret project, the Advanced Cruise missile (AGM-129), and we were hard-pressed to get one missile out every 90 days. He told me there was a line move every 90 minutes back then, and if you weren't finished with your job, you had better hang on because the line was moving whether you wanted it to or not. Consolidated used paper work orders, and we had computers that were supposed to speed things along.
Thank you, good history. The US Navy develope the B-24 into long-range patrol bomber designated PB4Y-2 Privateer. My dad flew that plane during WW2.
My late father was PIC on a B24 VIP transport detail based Dorval Montreal. He made a round the world trip in late 1944, the aircraft was naned Marco Polo, I have pictures of him and the aeroplane and his log books, from RAF to BOAC til retirement as Captain.
The stories he could have told...
My father flew out of Nadzab, New Guinea during the war. When Japan surrendered, a General wanted to take my father with him to the occupation of Japan. He wanted to go home so he and his crew fixed up a war weary B-24, cut orders, and flew home.
My father flew the B-17 in the 15th Air Force out of Italy. My Uncle flew in the B-24. They used argue all the time over which was the superior aircraft. My dad called the B-24 a "flying coffin" and my uncle said the B-17 got more glory but was an inferior plane. I'm just proud that both of them enlisted right out of highschool and put their life on the line for freedom and democracy!
My wife’s Grandpa was a B-24 pilot, flew out of North Africa, Italy, Germany
A terrific documentary on a very important bomber, that deserves to be better known, particularly given the record breaking numbers produced. Well done, again, to the IWM. Top video, excellent gen as always.
this is my favorite bomber (after a B-52). the '17 was over-rated and 'loved' because of its looks. appearance over substance...
i had a sunday -school teacher who flew a B-24D in the 7th Bomb Squadron of the 34th Bomb Group out of Mendlesham. and i grew up and live now, about 70 miles from Willow Run. and i remember seeing this plane when i went through Air Force basic training at Lackland AFB...
fabulous video! thank you for this.
I'm a high school history teacher here in the Detroit area as well as an Air Force vet. Willow Run is just down the road from where my school is. I'll be using this video when we teach WWII this year. Hopefully, I can establish some pride in our students as I have for how impactful Detroit was during the war.
Detroit was the beating heart of the "Arsenal of Democracy" during the war.
Fantastic, keep the history alive. That was an incredible factory; fraught with delays initially but later moving at great production speed. Several videos out there on CZcams about it.
It got my grandfather home safe....Sgt Floyd Jerzak 6th Air Force VI Bomber Command Panama Canal Zone...he was a U-Boat hunter
Worth mentioning, I think- the last of those men are nearly all passed now, the WW2 veterans. Our club was proud to count Dickie Troyer among its number, veteran of 2 tours in the 24, mostly in the Mediterranean. Gone a few years now, he was always ready to get stuff done.
My great uncle was a top turret gunner in first the B-17 then the B-24. He preferred the B-24.
My Dad was a ball turret gunner on a B-24 The Pistol Pack'in Parson that was flown out of North Africa and Italy. They were one of many cruse that were on the Polesti bombing run.
Last month I took a ride on the B-24 Diamond Lil - One of only 2 airworthy B-24s left in the world and I believe the only one currently flying. It was such an amazing experience! Its operated by the Commemorative Air Force and is beautiful. I can't recommend a ride on her highly enough, just do it!
Had an uncle who flew copilot on a B24. 51 missions with the 15th out of Italy If he were still here and you asked him what he thought about the B24? I know for a fact that his answer would be....not much. Hard to fly, white knuckle takeoffs when fully loaded, unpressurized, caught on fire easily . Went to his grave knowing that he was damn lucky to have survived and live a full life.
My father was a B-24 pilot in the 15th, flew 30 missions plus several lone wolf missions. He would agree with your uncle on all points. Said it was exhausting to fly, you had to fight with it every second, unlike the B-17. The accounts of pilots and copilots having to be carried out of the planes after long missions were not fantasy. The 109s and 190s would scream right past the 17s and pounce on the quick to burn 24s. Dad later ferried all kinds of military aircraft, was quite familiar with the characteristics of other bombers. And yeah, he also knew he was damn lucky to have survived flying 24s.
I just found my grandpa’s B-24 Liberator flight manual. Feels like a treasure!!
The B-24 needs to receive the recognition it deserves.
The B-24, unfortunately, was built in modules assembled at other factory buildings nearby - this sped things up and made quality control more consistent. However, it also made the finished aircraft a bit more difficult to work on for some jobs. But mostly it made the B-24 easy to shoot down if you hit it in the right spot - which the Luftwaffe discovered very quickly.
There's videos on CZcams showing those unfortunate planes; the wings would fold back parallel to the fuselage and since the bombs and fuel were all close together the plane became a fireball really quickly. But the Liberator was difficult to fly, not impossible, and good crews made them work without problems. The most important rule - like the video said - was never go into enemy airspace without fighter escorts.
There are precious few of these majestic warbirds still flying; I saw one a little over 10 years ago over Seattle with a B-17. Thanks very much indeed for this edifying video.
@@DavidSmith-ss1cgYet the 24 had a slightly BETTER loss ratio.
@@RockerWasRight
Yeah but it flew easier missions. As a rule. In the Mediterranean. Even over NW Europe commanders gave B-24s easier missions whenever they could because they were worried higher loss rates would lower the morale of B-24 crews.
@@Ben-zr4ho The likes of Jimmy Stewart might have disagreed with you.
A school friend’s dad was a tail gunner in an RAF Liberator in the Middle East and Far East. Apparently the top scoring gunner in his squadron accounting for 2 1/2 zeroes, considered a feat. I knew him over 50 years ago, so know no more than that.
The B-24 was also the mount of possibly one of the best-known people of the time, a certain James "Jimmy" Stewart, who was the deputy commanding the 2nd Bombardment Wing and commander of the 703d Bombardment Squadron, flying at least 20 combat missions.
I thought he flew Mitchell's
Nope, 24's@@kevvoo1967
At the Citadel in the late 70’s, a college in Charleston, SC, one professor wore bombardier wings from WWII when he served in a B-24 bombardment group. A good man and professor. Quiet, he did not talk much about his time serving in WWII.
Fascinating little video. Been an aviation fantatic all my life and learned new stuff from this: 1. "Hot Stuff" being the first aircraft to complete 25 combat missions - I always thought it was the Memphis Belle. 2. The sheer number of B24s built - I googled this, and 18,000 of these compared to 12,000 B17s, and interestingly less than 8000 Lancasters.
When I think of World War II bombers, I imagine the airfields being populated with Lancs, B17s, and perhaps Wellingtons, and of Course B29s in the latter part of the war in the pacific theatre. Tend to forget the b24 all together!
Memphis Belle was actually the third crew to make it to 25. The first one crashed as she said, the second plane (another B17) was named "Hell's Angels". The powers that be didn't think that was a family friendly name so the crew of the Memphis Belle got the credit and notoriety.
Grandpa flew out of Italy sometimes as far as Poland. Crashed and ruined three b24 s. In the last was shot down over Viena and was a pow until the end of the war. Hill afb in ogden utah has a great af museum with many planes. Free admission and a great way to spend a day.
Terrific commentary Emily, thankyou for such a professional delivery.
Flown by the No. 311 (Czechoslovak) Bomber Squadron within the Coastal Command, too. And one of theirs sunk the famous blockade runner Alsterufer on December 27th, 1943.
I had the opportunity to SCUBA dive on wrecks of B17 and B24. My experience is that B17s are mostly intact, but B24s were all broken with all crew lost. Those wrecks are near the island of Vis (Croatia) in the Adriatic Sea.
In defense of the engineers, they were building an aircraft and not a ship.
I get what you mean
My maternal grandfather was a nose gunner on a B24 flying out of Bari, Italy. He was also the crew photographer and swore to his dying day that HE actually took the famous photo of a B24 going down in flames (the "Black Nan") because it was from his squadron and that it was miscredited to someone else.
My uncle was a B-24 tailgunner in Europe. His B-24 was named Marezydoats (one of several with that name). He made it home, but never talked about it.
You've just reminded me of my mother bless her, who used to sing Mairzydotes to us as children. Its something I'll never forget.
Mareseydotes, and Doeseydotes,
But little lamseydivey,
A kiddleydivey too,
Wouldn't you?
My late father in law flew B-24s as a young man in WW2. He came from a background of light, agile aircraft as a member of the flying team in college before the war and as a flight instructor for new pilots in his first year in the USAAF. He said the B-24 was "like flying a dump truck". It had a tendency to want to stagger and wallow especially when loaded, in the thinner air of high altitudes, at lower airspeeds, or some combo of those conditions. Especially sweat inducing was formation flying while heavily loaded at altitude, where he said they had to pay close attention and stay ahead of the airplane with their control inputs. Accounts I've read in recent years confirm what he described, such as this quote - "The bulky Liberator had a few faults. It required considerable strength to handle the controls. Pilots said that it was difficult to fly, particularly in formation and at altitudes above 20,000 feet, and that it demanded maximum skill. As one recalled, “In the air it was like a fat lady doing a ballet.'”
The laminar flow wing of the B-24 was in constant need of attention by the pilot.
Growing up a neighbor was a crew member gunner on bombers during WW2 he started out on B-17’s went home as an instructor than back out to the Pacific on B-24’s. He like told my Dad with us listening the B-24 was more comfortable than the B-17
I am from Uruguay, 84. The B-24 Liberator was the aircraft British PM Churchill chose for his movements during the war. It was loaned to him by Presdt. Roosevelt with crew included. Pilot was a 26 year old American who the PM greatly appreciated.
My father was engineer / top turret gunner on B24s (lead crew) out of Seething, sq 712. He'd tell you that bringing a damaged ship home was partly a matter of preparation. He routinely scrounged spare parts from the scrapyard so that he could make some types of repairs in-flight. Spare rudder cables and clamps came in handy a few times. They brought one back with over 1700 inbound holes, and more exit holes on the other side.
A family friend flew B-24’s out of North Africa and Italy. Made the Ploiesti raid (second wave as I remember it) and made it back to base. Later flew missions over Italy and Germany. I do not believe he ever flew a plane again once he came home. When asked he never said much about the war other than to tell about the happier moments.
Your family's friend may have come home with the same mindset as my father. He figured he had used up all his good luck flying 50 missions and wasn't risking getting in a plane again.
@@cdjhyoung - You may have a valid point there. If I had flown 50 combat missions back then I might have second thoughts about ever again taking a plane anywhere. My hat is off to your dad and all of his crew mates. We owe them and thousands of others like them more than we can ever pay.
My uncle John Park flew a B24 out of North Africa. 50 missions plus 2 over Ploesti. He said the B24 was a tough aircraft and saved his life several times. His only complaint was the autopilot, saying it was like turning it over to a drunk driver. After 10 or 15 minutes, you had to turn it off so you wouldn't get sick. That meant you had to fly it yourself for most of the ten to twelve hour flights.
Great video. The video touches on this briefly, but I think the majority of pilots preferred the B-17. I think it was McGovern who said 'The Liberator is like flying a pig with wings'. After these missions the pilots were exhausted just from fighting the 24s controls. I've read this in several places, but I think the best sources for this are George McGovern's book "My life in the service" and Ambrose's "The wild blue". Both great reads.
My father flew in Liberators in the RAAF during WW2 from Sept 1944n till wars end. After transferring from Hudsons in 13 Squadron based in Darwin he joined 529 Squadron in the US 5th Air Force until Jan 1945 when he transferred to the all-Australian 25 , City of Perth Squadron. Much of the flying was bombing raids and anti-submarine roles. After he left the 5th Air force it began the big push with bombing raids north west into the Indian ocean over the Malay oil fields and the Philippines for which the squadrons were awarded the Presidential Unit Citation. Meanwhile in 25 squadron the crews were selected for special high altitude training with the intention of using stripped down Liberators to bomb Japan at high altitude above the anti-aircraft and Japanese fighters. Before this could happen the atomic bombs brought an end to the war.
Yeah, the Liberator was actually reasonably popular here. There’s a complete airframe on static display in a hangar down at Werribee, in Victoria. I’ve never seen it but always wanted to. It’s about an hour from my place.
I grew up in the 60’s. My friend and I were aviation lovers and spent hours studying WWII planes and building plastic models of them. At that time I don’t know that the reputation of the B-17 had eclipsed that of the B-24. I think we considered them to be pretty much equally worthy of respect.
What was your favorite model? Revel or Monogram?
My dad flew the B-24 for the US Navy in the PTO...the Navy called it the PB4Y-1. He loved the aircraft, said it was a true pilots aircraft that required a high degree of skill but was capable of the type of low-level bombing and strafing attacks his squadrons carried out that could never have been accomplished by the B-17. He flew many types of aircraft during his service but always said the Lib was his favorite.
Excellent presentation! Well done Emily.
It’s odd to run into a comment out in the wild from another channel. Bring back the test tubes!
agreed! She's a very well informed, fluent and erudite speaker :D
@@M80Ball I find it really weird as well because @taofledermaus is a very niche channel I watch that usually consists of him or Officer Gregg shooting custom shotgun shells of all variety.
Surprised to see you here! Cheers
My Grandmother worked in Willow Run making these! She was short, at just a hair over 5', and was petite, so her job was to install wiring in places that were hard to get to. Just for that reason, I have soft spot for the Liberator.
This describes my mother and her sister that both worked at Willow Run. My mother was also petite and assigned to the same role as your grandmother. The problem for my mother was that she was horribly claustrophobic and the job terrified her.
I had a very dear friend Ralph Sanders that was a bombardier on the B-24 Liberator. He told me lots of stories about he war and flying in the B-24. They were truly our greatest generation!!
In a Martin Marauder B 26.
My Father flew 153 missions over Europe
from May 1943 to May 1945.
9th Air Force 454 Bomb Group.
Two Pratt Whitney 2800 WASP engines.
Four bladed Curtis propellers. The fastest bomber in WWII. Landing speed. 150 mph.
Top speed in a dive without bombs
475 mph.
12-50 Caliber guns
2 in the nose ( modified)
4 belly guns forward, pilots guns.
2 top turret guns
2 tail guns
2 waist guns either side.
12 total. Most fearsome formation tactical bomber in world war two.
Most missions between 10-15,000 feet.
The most powerful zone for deadly
88 German flak batteries. As many Luftwaffe fighters coming and going to
targets until his last mission in
May 1945 over Kassel Germany.
In addition,
My Father led the B-26 raids over Bastogne
during the Battle of the Bulge breakout.
This bomber could carry 6,000 lbs in bombs, the same as a B-17.
153 times where every mission was
D Day.
My Dad was a radio operator on a B-17. My uncle was on the B-24. Good presentation. 👍
My father was a tail gunner on a B-24 out of England. Churchill called serving in the Mighty Eighth statistical death. Horrible casualty rate and after the war it was found that aerial bombardment did not accomplish near as much as had been thought. Over the years Dad answered a few of my questions. He did 35 missions. Not many survived that many.
The bombs were used in WW II, and again in Vietnam, were uncertain in their trajectory and were “thin skinned” and often didn’t damage equipment and such in the war materiel factories although they would blow out walls and such when the bombs actually hit them which wasn’t that often. Post was studies concluded that rather few bombs actually hit the intended target. The myth of putting them (bombs) in a pickle barrel was jut that, a myth.
As a young child my father was assigned to an airbase outside of Munich during the last years of the occupation while training Luftwaffe pilots to assume a role in NATO. I saw the bomb damage first hand. I’ll just say the German civilian populace suffered terribly.
The 8th Air Force established the “Second Front” the Soviets were demanding for them to be able to stay in the war.
Off all the liberators my personal favorite was the Lady Be Good that went down in 1943 in the Sahara Desert. I was on the recovery team (operation climax) in 1960. The amazing is they all bailed out and she landed herself. I live just down the road from the Willow run plant that built the B-24 .
Had an opportunity to tour both B-17 ans B-24.
The B-17 was cramped, with narrow passages. The waist gunner positions were offset due to narrow fuselage and the tunnrl to the tail for the very slender.
The B-24 felt spacious as a barn in comparison.
i'm remember reading somewhere a joke from that time which said the B-24 was the box the B-17 came in
I noticed in this film the waist gunner had a a SEAT.
Looking forward to my visit to Duxford on September 17th. Thank you IWM for all the great work you do.
Quite many fell off over Hungary during the summer of 1944. My grandma told me a story when a whole crew (very possibly a Liberator's crew) were kept in custody at the parish hall of her village (Nemesvid, under soutwest shores of lake Balaton). She said the crew were very well dressed, were very impressing unlike the latter Russian foot soldiers. Only a German officer looked as impressing as the Americans. She also told that there was a "small gypsy-faced guy" among the crew - turned out a Mexican/Latino guy (locals didn't even knew about Mexico, they only saw local gypsies in Hungary), and possibly he was the ball turret gunner because of his size. The arms, parachutes and important documents were confiscated, but not the personal stuff (my grandma made bed-linen sheet from the parachutes later, silk was something hard to find that time). The crew were treated well under the circumstances. My grand-grandfather only spoke Russian and no English - thanks to the long "POW camp holiday" during the 1st World War (The Great War, Carpathian battles with Imperial Russian forces). He escaped with all of his mates when the Great Socialist Revolution broke out in late 1917. The prison camp was unattended, the guards left them there - maybe to fight on either side of the Revolution - or whatever. My grand-grandfather came along Siberia, Russia, Eastern Europe on foot, horse coach / horse sled, stowawaying trains, swiming across icy rivers in wintertime. It was long and exhausting journey to home. And in 1945 he became the only man in his village who could speak Russian, so he and his family was safe from abuse. Once happend also some American and German or Hungarian fighters were dogfighting almost treetop levels over the field where my grandma and her family did harvesting work on that summer. They see the furballing aircrafts, heard the machineguns firing, and saw the field was plowed up with the bullets around them. Best they could do is hinding in the haystacks not to get seen by enemy pilots - they didn't know that airplanes are actually shooting at whom?
As target distance was growing, the b17 payload was diminishing rapidly, much more than the b24's.
The b24 was much more modern and complexe so it required more work and skill from the crews. But overall it was a much more capable aircraft.
They built one B-24 at Willow Run, Michigan, every hour or so. Amazing.
Henry Ford turned them out like model T’s , amazing story of American engineering.
I saw a PB4Y-2 at Fairbanks, Alaska three decades ago. I was on a "summer training camp" as a member of the US Army Reserve out of Phoenix, Arizona, and the PB4Y-2 (the US Navy's single rudder edition) was being used as a water bomber to fight forest fires.
May I call the B-24 Liberator "the most successful bomber failure of World War Two?" This video has already showcased the Liberator's shortcomings. Two reasons for Liberator successes were massive production of the type and the fact that despite its warts, the Liberator was more capable than other bombers available in 1941. Both of the reasons for success were mentioned in this video, too. The Ford Willow Run assembly line is a decaying relic now, though someone is taking a stab at preserving parts of it as a museum. The Battle of the North Atlantic was covered well, but distances in the Pacific were even greater and the B-24 out-ranged other bombers until the B-29 premiered in 1944, performing valuable photo reconnaissance missions (and flying too high for interception by the few Japanese aircraft posted at island outposts--if there were any Japanese aircraft) and even long-range bombing missions from bases in China, Burma and Alaska. Hill Aerospace Museum (part of the Hill Air Force Base in Utah, formerly known as the Ogden Air Depot until renamed prior to WW2 in honor of the Army pilot who crashed the Boeing Model 299 on his first flight in the B-17 prototype) sent an expedition to Alaska and recovered its B-24 from a crash site; now their B-24 is on display. As the C-87, the Liberator carried fuel, bombs and other expedited supplies--and President Franklyn D. Roosevelt, too. Despite scrapping nearly all B-24 Liberators at the end of WW2, America got its money's worth out of them--and so did other nations including Britain.
Aircraft of the early 20th Century were not designed to crash--and crew escape was something worked out after the planes were put into service. A good video on aircraft displayed at IWM would be comparing the different evacuation protocols of several different aircraft. Because those aircraft were not INTENDED to crash and not designed for either a "safe crash" or for the crew to abandon their crippled plane while it was in flight, design flaws such as the Liberator's bomb bay doors collapsing when the bomber was ditched over water and the flooded plane sinking immediately were not considered when the designers maximized speed, altitude, bomb load, and range. Eddie Rickenbacker's B-17 (used as a transport) ran out of fuel due to a navigation error and had to ditch in the Pacific--Rickenbacker reported that the B-17 sank too quickly to transfer most of the survival gear and supplies to three life rafts. Sinking upon water ditching before the crew could escape wasn't limited to the B-24 but the Liberator had the worst reputation--unlike the reputation of another Consolidated multi-engine high-wing patrol bomber, the PBY Catalina. When Rickenbacker took his involuntary 21-day Pacific Ocean cruise vacation in an inflated rubber raft Britian's MI-9 was still a young organization and the USAAF and USN thought it was moving mountains to provide its aircrew with heated flying suits, parachutes, and floatation devices. Survival kits in the modern sense were not really standard until the late WW2 period--and survival training was primitive.
I toured Duxford about 20 years ago. I've worked as a museum volunteer at an air force museum for a decade and I'm aware of how limited resources affect what gets displayed. Having an MI-9 museum is probably out of the question because there's not enough interest in most nations. Hill Aerospace Museum had some survival supplies and equipment on display and a recreation of part of a Vietnam prisoner of war compound. Touring the aircraft in Duxford was a treat because many of the bigger planes were open for touring the interior. One thing that I noted was some aircraft had most of the crew parachutes located in a centralized location rather than at the crewman's action station. Their bulky parachutes interfered with crew duties, and it's far easier to account for parachutes if they're in one place, but getting from a gunnery position to that parachute storage in a plunging plane couldn't have been easy!
Regarding the B-24, most of the crew didn't have seats! They stood or knelt at their action stations. The pilots had decent seats and probably seat belts, but others might have a simple stool to perch on. When the Liberator crash landed, most of the crew would sit on the floor and link arms to ride out the impact. It took until September 20, 1944 before the need to sacrifice a $215,516 aircraft in a water ditching under ideal conditions was undertaken. This IWM video has a film clip of this test.
www.beneathhauntedwaters.com/B-24.htm
www.451st.org/Manuals/How%20to%20Ditch%20the%20B-24.pdf
czcams.com/video/tG4nm2atjZI/video.html
www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/eddie-rickenbacker-adrift-in-the-pacific-ocean/
Remember the actor Jimmy Stewart was a b-24 pilot in combat during wwii and a squadron leader staying in the reserves till retiring as a general !
I had the (real) pleasure of seeing a B-24 Liberator, as well as a B-29 Superfortress, at Natrona County Airport (where I started to learn to fly), when the "Confederate Air Force" flew in on route to an airshow back in 1998.
The Liberator was my favourite US heavy bomber but perhaps I was biased because it was the first Airfix model I bought back in the early 1980s.
Ah.... the good old days when you could use a historic term like "Confederate" without some snot-nosed, purple-haired freak screaming that you're a racist!
I just took a ride in Diamond Lil last month - now called the Commemorative Air Force. She's still going strong along with FiFi the B-29
A great plane. I don’t think it was as popular with crews compared to the B 17. Brave men stepped into both btw. What a generation.
I don't think a single American airman liked the B-17.
Hi You forgot to mention the RAAF, we few them in the Pacific war, used them for Air Sea Rescue for a short time. Plus one under construction in Melbourne, Vic - FYI Bills
The most famous B-24 pilot was movie star Jimmy Stewart who flew about 20 missions with the 8th Air Force in 1944 before being promoted to a staff position.
On paper, the B-24 was better than the B-17 but it tended to catch fire and the B-17 was more rugged and more likely to bring their crews home. A distant cousin of mine was killed when his B-24 crashed on takeoff from its base in England in 1944.
James Stewart, that softly spoken Hollywood actor flew one. I'm still waiting for Airfix to issue a new mould kit in 1/72.
My father was a navigator on ‘Plum Lake’, flying from Stornara, Italy with the 15th AF. He didn’t discuss his experiences except when in the company of other airmen. I relish those times.
it apparently had a tendency to have leaky fuel tanks requiring to be flown with the bomb bay doors open. There was a B24 crash near where I live where the plane was on fire when it was going down, attributed to a fire caused by the heaters and fuel fumes
I remember reading that you could recognise a B-24 pilot because his stick arm would be bigger than his throttle arm, that's how physically strenuous they were to fly due to their weight. Or it could be an innuendo that went over my head 😂
Wasn't laminar flow. The davies wing was famous for having a high aspect ratio which reduces induced drag. The high thickness made it very draggy at high speed high altitude.
*Davis* wing but otherwise you're correct.
@@tempestfury8324 as long as you can get the gist
The e was an autocorrect
The laminar flow claim is performance based rather than technical. The Davis aerofoil was a unique speculative very high lift design, thick with a forward maximum thickness and strong camber, it was also in a high aspect ratio wing so it worked hard with lower drag but it really tortured the air so that it was always nearer the stall or air flow breakdown. They were extra dangerous in even light icing, the airflow broke up with much less ice than with other planes. The USAAF 8th A.F. usually removed the rubber de-icing boots from their heavy bombers. The B-24 was good for winning the war, it didn’t need to be popular.
All true, but the B-24 did have a lower max altitude than the B-17, making it more vulnerable to flack.
All these shared memories of fathers, uncles and so on. Enough to bring tears that these were still boys then.
My Father was an airframe fitter with RAF Coastal Command. His squadron was sent to India in 1944 where they flew Liberators supplying the 14th army in Burma. They were flying at extreme range with crews regularly being out for over 20 hours. After the war was over they then flew humanitarian missions dropping rice over Burma
They would load the rice onto planks laid across the bomb bays and ground crew would then fly with the crew and push the rice bags off the planks over the drop zone a somewhat hazardous activity.
Another excellent video, well presented. Thank you!
And another correction. The bomb bay doors opened OUTSIDE of the fuselage, not into the bomb bay.
Interesting, and I'm not sure why this wasn't mentioned being a British video, but it was the RAF who gave her the name Liberator. The USAAC/USAAF rarely named aircraft but the RAF did, and Liberator she was. Later, both Consolidated and the USAAF adopted the name. Considering the Lib's first role in the RAF was coastal command, it should be noted that the USN also used the Liberator -- as the PB4Y-1 -- as a long range sub-hunter, as well as her development, the PB4Y-2 Privateer.
No obnoxious music, no long self-congratulatory intro, Miss knows her facts...clicks subscribe. Well done,
My grandad was a rear gunner on Liberators operated by No99 Squadron RAF during late WW2. He actually did 2 flights on the Liberator on display at RAF Museum London.
My great uncle was CO of 99 from September 44 to April 45. Must have know each other.
A ficinating account and facts of the behind the scenes make this part of history very interesting and unforgettable. Loved watching this video, found it informative and presented well. Many thanks. 🌹
Great video, well done, thank you!
A really well produced and presented video. Thank you.
The ‘ U boat detecting radar pictured is, in fact , a large arc light for illuminating surfaced submarines at night.
A Leigh Light I think.