Seeing people cutting bottles for the first time has given me a fresh new perspective on how difficult it is to get right, and how skilled Skal is. Brilliant.
@@fenrir4211 I imagine he does cut out failures that aren't particularly interesting or amusing and/or don't demonstrate the intended point, because they clearly happen at least occasionally and wouldn't serve the purpose of the videos. That said, I imagine the same is true of Successful cuts. I don't exactly give much credit to the implication that there are many failures for every success and they're all just edited out to make Skallagrim look much better at it than he actually is, though.
I know what you mean. I've tried bottle cutting on a couple occasions and found myself really disheartened by not getting clean cuts (if any cuts at all). But after watching this it's reassuring to know that I'm not the only one who struggles when knew to it. I need to get some more practice in, see if I can hone my edge alignment. To be fair to myself, all the cutting I've tried so far has been with single-handed swords (due to space limitations) and those are harder to get good alignment with since you don't have as much control as you do when using two hands.
That Kilij was BEAUUUUTIFUL MATE. Also I find interesting how they weren't terribly BAD from the beginning. Probably all the years of kendo gave them a bit of "sense" of the sword, some confidence, so they just had to learn to edge align instead of losing that fear of the blade we all have when we start. Nice!
@@The_Keeper It is, actually! It's just that a shinai isn't really a good sword analog. But, it does have a string (tsuru) down the back to hold the shinai together while also indicating the back of the sword. You have to keep that in mind when you strike, both for technique purposes, and also for valid strikes. But again, it isn't really a good sword analog. Wrong length, wrong weight, wrong balance, wrong handle length, etc. But, you are definitely right in that the concern is different - it's much, much harder to translate it to the thin edge of a real sword!
@@EladarImm It is barely a concern in the way an actual sword behaves, though, which is what they meant; basically, as long as you hit with the right strip of bamboo, you're fine, whereas that does not work with an actual blade.
@@RaspK For the purposes of point scoring in kendo, edge alignment is determined by posture, grip, path of the shinai, and the sound of the impact. Evaluation (and execution) is significantly simplified given that 90% of strikes originate as downward swings.
it is very nice to see Kendo and Hema practitioners interacting and sharing knowledge in a pleasant way. It would be great if the majority acted like this instead of behaving elitistically and insulting each other's style on the internet.
Seeing the little guy figure out the edge alignment and power by the end was incredibly satisfying. You could feel (and hear) his frustration earlier, I'm sure he was beaming after he got there! Nice video Skall, looked like a fun cutting session :)
@@czarkusa2018 In the video they talked about being afraid of a sharp sword when you're not used to it. So I think he was (rightly) not being reckless for that reason. You could see he was tentative, which definitely wasn't helping the technique
@@chrismarlow9585 Yeah i think he mainly lacked the confidence then at start he used too much his arms, and not his core. He kept then also having lack of follow through, and power, but thats where the confidence comes in
Yep i had no idea how hard this was. Imagine this during the stress of a real life encounter, how frequently are expected cuts not as devastating due to poor edge alignment?
@@kieran7409 Its honestly less important. Human flesh isn't a rolled tatami mat. If I were cut by a sword, I'd be less concerned about it scalloping off my bone and more concerned about the chunk of missing tissue.
@@thisdude9363 Might not have to worry about that if you're wearing any decent clothing on that body part, as Skall showed in tests. Even lighter fabric reduces how deep cuts go by quite a bit, especially when combined with poor edge alignment. Not a chance I'd want to gamble on, especially since you'll still feel the impact either way - but it's far from "edge alignment doesn't matter".
@@thisdude9363 While true, but the person swinging the sword is still going to care, because it affects how much shock travels back up the blade, how likely their blade is to get stuck, how well they actually hit where they aim (relevant if you're wearing armour) and so on... mostly stuff that doesn't affect how wrecked you are, but absolutely affects how capable they are of dealing with the guy next to you who hasn't yet been taken out of the fight and is still quite keen on doing them in.
@@sihilius God I wish. Historical fencing has only come up once in my modern fencing club and it really made me not want to bring up that I'm doing both.
You can really tell when wataru gained the confidence/stopped being afraid to swing the sharp metal around. He seemed really afraid to go for a full swing and finally got it in the end!
Could not have asked for this done better. Immediately mocks the more clickbaity and disrespectful ideas and then is very supportive and encouraging. Well done.
Most Kendo practitioners in Japan says that it doesn’t translate well into real sword obvious reasons like differences in weight and balance. However, it does translate well into wooden/metal sword which is the main modern practical application in Japanese police force.
I think that is post WW2 rationalization to get around the martial arts ban, plenty of koryu train with shinai, kendo also trains with bokuto, and about a quarter of kendoka also train iaido.
I would assume kendo translates better than having no training at all, but yeah i definitely dont think it would be that easy Especially since kendo also doesnt address edge alignment
I think from an outsider's perspective what's so frustrating about Japanese historical martial arts is that they have everything they need for historical sword arts and more but they split the disciplines of the the arts into seperate martial arts and specialized them. they have sparring and conditioning (Kendo) they have the grappling and disarming (Aiki-Jujutsu) they have quick drawing (Iaido) they have test cutting (Tamashigiri, Iaido, Battodo, batto-jutsu) they have drills, foot work, forms, stances, basic techniques, everything foundational (Kenjutsu) they have manuels and living systems to go with the manuels they have eye witness sources and unbroken chains of arms and armor makers they have bounties of surviving period arms and armor. yet they decided for perfectly legitimate and respectable reasons to split their old martial arts into smaller and more manageable disciplines.
@@Thesandchief the very obscure koryus are out there, somewhere, probably, idk, maybe you know a guy that knew a guy that trained with the guy that knew the guy (I am only slightly exageratting, but there really are a bunch of obscure koryus that do all you mention all in one) I trained one as a kid, they even did multiple weapons, I never trained with actual edged weapons but I did learn the kihon, which is how they call the basic moves-(reasonable so, I was like 6 years old) and forever loved the staff and I still do, I also learnt the basic disarms and grappling techniques like sweeps and throws.
@CahaLLo that's true. There are absolutely few ryuha that take an interdisciplinary approach to the curriculum of their historical martial art. I saw a ryuha descended from the Shinsengumi that spars with kendo equipment while also allowing grappling. I don't know if they test cut or not, though. Though interdisciplinary ryuha seem to be a small exception to the overall norm. I also don't know with the Japanese themselves care or want to move their ryuha towards interdisciplinary training.
@@Thesandchief they seem not to care, they seem to keep the secrecy element alive after all these centuries. Makes sense considering they did compete against each other regularly for centuries. Kinda like modern fighters don't share much sparring footage. Of course, secrecy is a dying tradition in Martial Arts and so are ryuha it seems.
Honestly, your inclusion of your own cuts is what makes this video great. We can see "above average, but not perfect" (from you) compared to "good, not great" (from them). It's a nice reminder that these things are HARD to do!
Lot of serious Japanese kendoka will also do some Iaido, and some schools of it do have test cutting, to say nothing of Koryu Budo schools. Bokken do a little better job of being edge aware but there's still a skill gap. Turns out the best way to learn to cut through something, is to cut through something.
We had a similar experience about 5 or 6 years ago as I recall. The students of our Nakamura Batto-do class were having our summer cutting party (tameshigiri is part of the curriculum), and we invited our associated Kendo group. (Interestingly, none of them even did Iaido with iaito/mogito [swords with blades of unsharpenable alloy metal], so the shinken - live-blade steel swords - that we used were 'foreign' to them.) None has successful 'out-of-the-box' experiences with the tatami mats (we never use plastic bottles or pool noodles). With some coaching & instruction, some achieved moderate success - I believe that we rerolled a few 1/2 mats (a technique for beginners to build confidence). And, as expected, in the end, they all agreed that this was a difficult skill to achieve.
To me this video is pure visual ASMR. I really have a fetish for blades. ^^ Also interesting to see how important edge alignment is compared to when you use blunt weapons. Thanks for all participants for the great presentation!
Your friend Wataru seems to not put any of his body into the strikes. Unlike Skal & Sindri. That could help with his cut practice. That end cut is priceless. 🤣
Last saturday I tried test cutting for the first time. It is VERY VERY different than what i imagined. I saw so many people failing miserably, including very experienced hema instructors. And i was like oh god im gonna mess this up. But i remembered what the instructor said: straight your arms, preload your step (take your step before throwing the cut), and rotate your core and nailed it. First time was fine, bit rough towards the end, but cut through, second time was perfectly clean, just missed my target point a bit down and 'ate' a bit more of tatami than i expected 😅😅
kendo guys can have great footwork and speed but I reckon a tennis pro's skills would translate better to cutting mats or golf, any sport that focuses on alignment and angle while striking with an object
Or a carpenter, perhaps. Or generally working in the real world with real tools in the real outdoors or construction site is likely better preparation for just about everything. Someone swinging heavy implements - hammers, sledgehammers, wrecking bars, axes, whatever - would probably be far better prepared for this because momentum, targeting, "edge" alignment are taken into consideration on a daily basis. Maintaining the edge alignment on a six pound splitting axe is a bit demanding. Also none of them seem to be particularly physically fit. General fitness and understanding of moving the body in the world is something almost entirely absent in the world. In addition, quality of instruction could have something to do with it. That is, I learned far, far more about footwork, balance, redirecting angular momentum, situational awareness (where is everybody), posture, and general movement from Ballroom Dancing (American Style) than I ever learned from the many hours of so-called "martial" arts I studied.
@@kaoskronostyche9939 not sure what you're insinuating by quoting "edge", but it's not some mysterious jargon. it's literally just the way the edge is angled along the path of the swing. the more parallel it is to the path, the better. if the angle is off, the blade may not cut all the way through and could get stuck, pushing a lighter target (like the water bottles) away. if the angle is bad enough, the blade wouldn't bite in at all and would twist at the surface of the target, hitting it with the flat of the blade. i really doubt someone working in construction has the muscle memory needed to make various cuts that wouldn't hit the target on the flat of the blade. a woodchopper maybe, but you're not gonna see them do an unterhau much less a zwerchhau. as far as physical fitness is concerned, you only really need enough stamina to be able to train and practice longer as is with any sport or martial art. you might be judging their fitness based on their build. i've seen people with their build that had a lot of agility and endurance. you shouldn't judge them or anyone by appearance alone.
@@kaoskronostyche9939 yeah all that stuff could translate well to Hema and athleticism in general, but its not focusing on the really precise angle of impact and follow through used when cutting mats or playing sports like the ones mentioned above, not that I think having perfect alignment is all that important anyway.
Kendo doesn't really teach rigorous edge alignment. However it does teach a lot of the mechanics of the cut and how to make adjustments. Getting good tip speed should be fairly easy. However it also doesn't teach near as much follow through. A 'correct' cut stops just the other side of the cut object, but you don't cut through like you are doing. The other huge issue is you only cut from a few directions in kendo. You can see the kendoka struggling with that. It would have been interesting to set up the tatami horizontal like a kote and have them cut it.
I did Kendo for the better part of a decade and from my experience, it definitely helped with the fundamentals of cutting. But what it didn't help with was the follow through. Usually they would prioritize the tap and raise, with the idea being not to get the blade stuck in the opponent. I suppose it was more akin to a push cut rather than a draw cut.
in an real fight, an 2 inch cut in an sweet spot is all you need, chopping off an arm is nice if it won't open your body, or overcommit to the swing, but usually, it's overboard if you can't stop the blade if you miss the target.
This is actually why I quit Kendo in highschool to study Kenjustsu. I wanted to learn how to use a real sword and do tameshigiri, not tap each other with shinai for points. Kendo is all about speed but in a real sword fight there's so much more to it, edge alignment, power, follow through, sword balance etc. Wasn't sure how these kendo practitioners would fair but it's interesting to watch. Nice vid man!
This video was extremely satisfying, I haven't really felt like "Wow this video from Skall was super enjoyable to watch" in a long time (not saying your other videos are bad, it's just one is just REALLY satisfying...)
Generalized statement about kendo: it does not teach how to cut. It teaches the kiritsuke (wounding) which precedes a killing stroke (kirioroshi). The Japanese for some reason compartmentalize their martial arts to an extreme degree, and thus with the katana this means that kendo is only like a third of how to actually handle a sword.
It's not limited to the katana alone. It also doesn't explain the internal segregation and compartmentalization of techniques either. It's a national character (flaw?).
I think personally they kinda made up lot of the stuff in modern kendo, and basicly modelled it to be similar than olympic style fencing. They have these stories for example that the different points they are required to hit shows the weak spots in samurai armor or something, but to me it looks like its taken directly from western fencing sport, and the point system. I would imagine the actual sword practise in japan before modernization was lot more similar to well swordsmanship in west as well before modern sport
@@lalli8152 If you are curious, this 24 minute video provides a very concise history of kendo czcams.com/video/AP_NwitaquM/video.html I have done kendo for a few years now, and this is the first that I have heard this nonsense about the weak points of the samurai armor. We have our targets because they are the easiest to armor without restricting mobility. Kendo seems the way that it is because it emerged from the striking practice of jikishinkage-ryu. They used it for spiritual (controlled intensity) development and not combat simulation.
@@Ianmar1 makes sense. I heard the armor thing i think to be fair in western source, and not japanese. Might have been even tv show about different martial arts
I've started watching you back in the day of 'ending stuff rightly' and enjoyed watching your content now and again. Lately however I find myself watching almost every upload, you have evolved so much as a content creator. Just wanted to note that, thank you and keep up the good work =)
I enjoyed that alot more than i thought i would. As someone who hasn’t ever cut with swords it made me appreciate the skill involved in the art alot more 👍😊
Looked like you were having fun, love the encouraging and instructive atmosphere! Wish I could spend an afternoon cutting bottles and mats with you guys.
This video brought up an interesting thinking point for me that I never considered before, because I always made the assumption that it went hand in hand. How many people who practice HEMA, and are able to spar, aren't able to properly cut? It's one thing to be able to learn the techniques and spar to a level of being able to score hits, but someone can learn to do that while not having proper edge alignment because the strikes are blunt in sparring with no way to asess it. It's an interesting scenario where someone can be skilled enough to fight with good technique, but in a sharp blade scenario they would "struggle" (relative of course because getting hit with a sharp blade with bad edge alignment would still do a lot of damage and I doubt people on the battlefield or in duels really fussed that much about perfect alignment).
Interesting to see several kinds of swords used rather than just the equivalent to what they usually train for... and just how little difference it seemed to actually make. Almost choked on my drink at that ending, nicely done
A very important video. It really demonstrates the difference between someone doing something regularly and being adequate at it and someone who has no experience with an activity. No offense to your friends, but those are some truly atrocious cuts, especially with Balaur Arms/LK Chen swords you could even execute zwerchau with so cleanly that the top stacked on the bottom! I have had people who have never touched a sword coming to a cutting party doing far better than that. My wife doesn’t cut much with swords and even time she actually cuts, she does it very well. I’ve seen Matthew Jensen’s teen daughter cutting well and she clearly isn’t a practitioner of any sort. No problem though, just practice and practice. Your slow motion footage shows that these first-timers are terrified of hitting the stand (even though they still did), and subconsciously cutting away from the targets rather than into it-hence constantly cutting into the neck, the worst part of the target to cut through. Their stances are also completely wrong. If not to do any passing step, at least position your swing that it doesn’t cleave into the direction of your lead foot. It’s just better biomechanics to use your body to generate torque anyway. Sometimes people leave comments under my video “why don’t you do this during cutting, why don’t you cut that kind of target”. Judging from the language they use, it’s clearly from someone who have never laid an eye on an actual sword in their lives let alone handling them. All I ask them to do is to go buy or borrow a sword and cut a few mats or bottles themselves and see how they would do. BTW looking forward to your review of those Balaur Arms new models by LK Chen. I have all 3 models here, already reviewed the kriegsmesser, and found their quality astonishing.
0:35 I cut my middle finger to the bone with a jambiya in similar fashion when I first started my journey with weapons 14 years ago. I learned to always be conscious of where your other hand was in relation to the weapon. lol There's a reason why you see people tucking their hand behind their back or at their side while practicing.
From vids on Lets ask Shogu or Seki Sensei, even Japanese people who practice in Iaido often aren't good at tameshigiri unless they've advanced so far that they finally start practicing it. So I don't think people who only practice kendo would be good at it. Another school of swordsmanship that includes tameshigiri earlier is called battoudo.
This video was so good and interesting because it proves that kendoka KNOWS how to use a sword and not the bullcrap people say like “oh in kendo they use shinais, that must mean that they don’t know how to use an actual sword!” as a matter of fact, kendoka are way more used to heavy swords than people might think, in kendo there is a wooden sword called a suburitō which is basically bigger and heavier bokken weighing about as much as a longsword its center of gravity is basically in the middle of the blade making it much harder to swing effectively than real swords, keep in mind that its used for building the muscles you use to swing a sword or a shinai👍
I think the issue Wataru was having is that he was trying to stop the blade after he felt the hit instead of following through with the same force. From a kendo perspective it makes sense, you aren't going to cut the opponent with a shinai, so all techniques in competition revolve around quick hits and disengaging the blade constantly. But as soon as he understood that he needs to do it faster and not stopping so early he started to get better.
I jump between kendo, iaido, and jodo. I also do tameshigiri and haven't had an issue. You just have to carry your strikes through instead of stopping as there is a person in the way.
Very fun stuff, makes me want to pick up some kind of sword training now that I know they are at least partially translatable to other types of swords.
This is awesome. I've been brush clearing with a machete, messing around mostly, and notice a lot of familiar things. When you get a solid swing zeroed in you barely feel it cut through. When you don't then you totally feel it...
this is fun! I'm personally also been cutting bottles to test my cutting skills coming out from a Kata based Iaido. and yes - its definately not as easy as it looks, ive still ways to go 🤭. Love it
You're right your sample size is small. I think it interesting how quickly they picked up ising a steel sword. It was fun to see the difference between you'all.
Obviously current kendo hasn't as a primary goal the learning of real life sword fight, with real katana, BUT i have the impression that so many kendoka (and kendo dojos) tend to forget how important should be the serious practice with bokuto/bokken for a more comprehensive learning.
Ending was not abrupt enough
Yea he sh--
The music just cutting in after him was hilarious
SK: "Knock, knock!"
Us: "Who's there?"
SK: "Interrupting cow!"
Us: "Interrupt--SK:"Moo!"
I had to laugh, when the rnd cut him off. Comedy acchieved
You could say it was a nice cut
that ending made me laugh hysterically. Great video, glad everyone got good cuts by the end.
also I had to look up the watermelon video. Wow. poor guy learned hard that day.
It's only fitting that the video ended with a hard cut :P
That ending though... 😎
I'm still laughing because of the end
At first I was like yeah ok guy how funny could it be -_- and then I got to the end lol. Why he do us like that 😂
Skal's edge alignment training has really paid off. Really nice work,bro.
Thanks.
Agreed. It's not quite at the level of Matt Easton, who can cut cleanly through water bottles with an unsharpened blade, but definitely impressive (o:
@@larsgottlieb I heard Matt Easton can cut through blades with water bottles
@@BarbarisII I wouldn't doubt that claim too much; the man is Scary with a mildy bevelled baseball bat ..
he would also explain to you why the baseball bat is a great weapon compared to others while he's beating you up ...@@larsgottlieb
Seeing people cutting bottles for the first time has given me a fresh new perspective on how difficult it is to get right, and how skilled Skal is. Brilliant.
he just cuts it out when he fails terribly, or if it happens too often
@@thehuntermikipl1170 thousand bottle killer
@@thehuntermikipl1170 Unless he is trained professional and didn't have to cut any part out because he was good at it
@@fenrir4211 I imagine he does cut out failures that aren't particularly interesting or amusing and/or don't demonstrate the intended point, because they clearly happen at least occasionally and wouldn't serve the purpose of the videos. That said, I imagine the same is true of Successful cuts. I don't exactly give much credit to the implication that there are many failures for every success and they're all just edited out to make Skallagrim look much better at it than he actually is, though.
I know what you mean. I've tried bottle cutting on a couple occasions and found myself really disheartened by not getting clean cuts (if any cuts at all). But after watching this it's reassuring to know that I'm not the only one who struggles when knew to it. I need to get some more practice in, see if I can hone my edge alignment. To be fair to myself, all the cutting I've tried so far has been with single-handed swords (due to space limitations) and those are harder to get good alignment with since you don't have as much control as you do when using two hands.
skallagrim at 4:00 : "think about where you want to hit and then go alot lower"
me: "hey, thats what i allways say about my life goals :)..."
You must have been aiming that comment somewhere above me, because, man, did it hit close to home...
@@My_initials_are_O.G.cuz_I_am how DARE YOU make an equally moderately funny selfdepricating comment to my mediocre selfdepricating joke!
That Kilij was BEAUUUUTIFUL MATE.
Also I find interesting how they weren't terribly BAD from the beginning. Probably all the years of kendo gave them a bit of "sense" of the sword, some confidence, so they just had to learn to edge align instead of losing that fear of the blade we all have when we start. Nice!
Makes sense, because edge allignment is kinda not really a concern in Kendo, so they had to learn to keep it in mind.
@@The_Keeper It is, actually! It's just that a shinai isn't really a good sword analog. But, it does have a string (tsuru) down the back to hold the shinai together while also indicating the back of the sword. You have to keep that in mind when you strike, both for technique purposes, and also for valid strikes.
But again, it isn't really a good sword analog. Wrong length, wrong weight, wrong balance, wrong handle length, etc.
But, you are definitely right in that the concern is different - it's much, much harder to translate it to the thin edge of a real sword!
@@EladarImm It is barely a concern in the way an actual sword behaves, though, which is what they meant; basically, as long as you hit with the right strip of bamboo, you're fine, whereas that does not work with an actual blade.
@@RaspK For the purposes of point scoring in kendo, edge alignment is determined by posture, grip, path of the shinai, and the sound of the impact. Evaluation (and execution) is significantly simplified given that 90% of strikes originate as downward swings.
@@Ianmar1 Quite. In the case of cuts, though, finer details impact the outcome considerably more so.
it is very nice to see Kendo and Hema practitioners interacting and sharing knowledge in a pleasant way. It would be great if the majority acted like this instead of behaving elitistically and insulting each other's style on the internet.
Even in the realm of martial arts, some people just like being in high school cliques lol
Wataru's progression throughout the video was nice to see.
Seeing the little guy figure out the edge alignment and power by the end was incredibly satisfying. You could feel (and hear) his frustration earlier, I'm sure he was beaming after he got there!
Nice video Skall, looked like a fun cutting session :)
Exactly, I was so hoping he could do it before they were done xD
I got the sense he didn't want to damage his kind host's swords by being too reckless.
@@czarkusa2018 In the video they talked about being afraid of a sharp sword when you're not used to it. So I think he was (rightly) not being reckless for that reason. You could see he was tentative, which definitely wasn't helping the technique
@@chrismarlow9585 Yeah i think he mainly lacked the confidence then at start he used too much his arms, and not his core. He kept then also having lack of follow through, and power, but thats where the confidence comes in
This made me realize how hard and how technical is to cut with a sword and why people talk so much about edge alignment. Nice video!
Yep i had no idea how hard this was. Imagine this during the stress of a real life encounter, how frequently are expected cuts not as devastating due to poor edge alignment?
@@kieran7409 Its honestly less important. Human flesh isn't a rolled tatami mat. If I were cut by a sword, I'd be less concerned about it scalloping off my bone and more concerned about the chunk of missing tissue.
@@thisdude9363 Might not have to worry about that if you're wearing any decent clothing on that body part, as Skall showed in tests. Even lighter fabric reduces how deep cuts go by quite a bit, especially when combined with poor edge alignment.
Not a chance I'd want to gamble on, especially since you'll still feel the impact either way - but it's far from "edge alignment doesn't matter".
@@thisdude9363 While true, but the person swinging the sword is still going to care, because it affects how much shock travels back up the blade, how likely their blade is to get stuck, how well they actually hit where they aim (relevant if you're wearing armour) and so on... mostly stuff that doesn't affect how wrecked you are, but absolutely affects how capable they are of dealing with the guy next to you who hasn't yet been taken out of the fight and is still quite keen on doing them in.
Very tasteful treatment of a guest sword art. We need more crossovers like this.
All of martial arts needs more of that. Try to even talk in a Tae Kwon Do dojo about Karate.
@@sihilius God I wish. Historical fencing has only come up once in my modern fencing club and it really made me not want to bring up that I'm doing both.
You can really tell when wataru gained the confidence/stopped being afraid to swing the sharp metal around. He seemed really afraid to go for a full swing and finally got it in the end!
Could not have asked for this done better. Immediately mocks the more clickbaity and disrespectful ideas and then is very supportive and encouraging. Well done.
Most Kendo practitioners in Japan says that it doesn’t translate well into real sword obvious reasons like differences in weight and balance.
However, it does translate well into wooden/metal sword which is the main modern practical application in Japanese police force.
I think that is post WW2 rationalization to get around the martial arts ban, plenty of koryu train with shinai, kendo also trains with bokuto, and about a quarter of kendoka also train iaido.
i'm pretty sure the japanese police train it because of sharpening their mind, and as sport, not on how it translate into real sword fighting
I would assume kendo translates better than having no training at all, but yeah i definitely dont think it would be that easy
Especially since kendo also doesnt address edge alignment
Really nice to see a video like this.
Wish I knew someone in my area to cut stuff with.
Also I think you would make for a good teacher Skall.
I think from an outsider's perspective what's so frustrating about Japanese historical martial arts is that they have everything they need for historical sword arts and more but they split the disciplines of the the arts into seperate martial arts and specialized them.
they have sparring and conditioning (Kendo)
they have the grappling and disarming (Aiki-Jujutsu)
they have quick drawing (Iaido)
they have test cutting (Tamashigiri, Iaido, Battodo, batto-jutsu)
they have drills, foot work, forms, stances, basic techniques, everything foundational (Kenjutsu)
they have manuels and living systems to go with the manuels
they have eye witness sources and unbroken chains of arms and armor makers
they have bounties of surviving period arms and armor.
yet they decided for perfectly legitimate and respectable reasons to split their old martial arts into smaller and more manageable disciplines.
Depends on the discipline, we do cutting, sparring, technique drilling, kata. And sword drawing all together in Toyama Ryu Kenjutsu
@Todd Stratton that's cool. Very well rounded.
@@Thesandchief the very obscure koryus are out there, somewhere, probably, idk, maybe you know a guy that knew a guy that trained with the guy that knew the guy (I am only slightly exageratting, but there really are a bunch of obscure koryus that do all you mention all in one) I trained one as a kid, they even did multiple weapons, I never trained with actual edged weapons but I did learn the kihon, which is how they call the basic moves-(reasonable so, I was like 6 years old) and forever loved the staff and I still do, I also learnt the basic disarms and grappling techniques like sweeps and throws.
@CahaLLo that's true. There are absolutely few ryuha that take an interdisciplinary approach to the curriculum of their historical martial art. I saw a ryuha descended from the Shinsengumi that spars with kendo equipment while also allowing grappling. I don't know if they test cut or not, though. Though interdisciplinary ryuha seem to be a small exception to the overall norm. I also don't know with the Japanese themselves care or want to move their ryuha towards interdisciplinary training.
@@Thesandchief they seem not to care, they seem to keep the secrecy element alive after all these centuries.
Makes sense considering they did compete against each other regularly for centuries.
Kinda like modern fighters don't share much sparring footage.
Of course, secrecy is a dying tradition in Martial Arts and so are ryuha it seems.
Honestly, your inclusion of your own cuts is what makes this video great. We can see "above average, but not perfect" (from you) compared to "good, not great" (from them). It's a nice reminder that these things are HARD to do!
Lot of serious Japanese kendoka will also do some Iaido, and some schools of it do have test cutting, to say nothing of Koryu Budo schools. Bokken do a little better job of being edge aware but there's still a skill gap. Turns out the best way to learn to cut through something, is to cut through something.
We had a similar experience about 5 or 6 years ago as I recall. The students of our Nakamura Batto-do class were having our summer cutting party (tameshigiri is part of the curriculum), and we invited our associated Kendo group. (Interestingly, none of them even did Iaido with iaito/mogito [swords with blades of unsharpenable alloy metal], so the shinken - live-blade steel swords - that we used were 'foreign' to them.) None has successful 'out-of-the-box' experiences with the tatami mats (we never use plastic bottles or pool noodles). With some coaching & instruction, some achieved moderate success - I believe that we rerolled a few 1/2 mats (a technique for beginners to build confidence). And, as expected, in the end, they all agreed that this was a difficult skill to achieve.
To me this video is pure visual ASMR. I really have a fetish for blades. ^^
Also interesting to see how important edge alignment is compared to when you use blunt weapons. Thanks for all participants for the great presentation!
Your friend Wataru seems to not put any of his body into the strikes. Unlike Skal & Sindri. That could help with his cut practice.
That end cut is priceless. 🤣
Yup.
When he finally "let go" in the end, it all started working for him.
Yeah, I noticed he mostly cut with his arms until the end, where he started rotating with his core and feet
this happened for me as well when i got a real blade
once i got my body fully into the cuts it all clicked back again
Send my boy skal some likes and comments, those tatamis aren't cheap.
They sure aren't... especially for something to just destroy that's a lot of money.
Last saturday I tried test cutting for the first time. It is VERY VERY different than what i imagined. I saw so many people failing miserably, including very experienced hema instructors. And i was like oh god im gonna mess this up. But i remembered what the instructor said: straight your arms, preload your step (take your step before throwing the cut), and rotate your core and nailed it. First time was fine, bit rough towards the end, but cut through, second time was perfectly clean, just missed my target point a bit down and 'ate' a bit more of tatami than i expected 😅😅
Returning after the stream: Those complaints about ending too abruptly are also never uncomple
kendo guys can have great footwork and speed but I reckon a tennis pro's skills would translate better to cutting mats or golf, any sport that focuses on alignment and angle while striking with an object
best edge alignment i've ever seen was from a hockey player. First time picking up a sword put years long hema cutters to shame with his clean cuts
Bet a butcher would absolutely kill it with one handed weapons.
Or a carpenter, perhaps. Or generally working in the real world with real tools in the real outdoors or construction site is likely better preparation for just about everything. Someone swinging heavy implements - hammers, sledgehammers, wrecking bars, axes, whatever - would probably be far better prepared for this because momentum, targeting, "edge" alignment are taken into consideration on a daily basis. Maintaining the edge alignment on a six pound splitting axe is a bit demanding.
Also none of them seem to be particularly physically fit. General fitness and understanding of moving the body in the world is something almost entirely absent in the world. In addition, quality of instruction could have something to do with it. That is, I learned far, far more about footwork, balance, redirecting angular momentum, situational awareness (where is everybody), posture, and general movement from Ballroom Dancing (American Style) than I ever learned from the many hours of so-called "martial" arts I studied.
@@kaoskronostyche9939 not sure what you're insinuating by quoting "edge", but it's not some mysterious jargon. it's literally just the way the edge is angled along the path of the swing. the more parallel it is to the path, the better. if the angle is off, the blade may not cut all the way through and could get stuck, pushing a lighter target (like the water bottles) away. if the angle is bad enough, the blade wouldn't bite in at all and would twist at the surface of the target, hitting it with the flat of the blade.
i really doubt someone working in construction has the muscle memory needed to make various cuts that wouldn't hit the target on the flat of the blade. a woodchopper maybe, but you're not gonna see them do an unterhau much less a zwerchhau.
as far as physical fitness is concerned, you only really need enough stamina to be able to train and practice longer as is with any sport or martial art. you might be judging their fitness based on their build. i've seen people with their build that had a lot of agility and endurance. you shouldn't judge them or anyone by appearance alone.
@@kaoskronostyche9939 yeah all that stuff could translate well to Hema and athleticism in general, but its not focusing on the really precise angle of impact and follow through used when cutting mats or playing sports like the ones mentioned above, not that I think having perfect alignment is all that important anyway.
Ha! I got a chuckle out of the ending. Well played.
Kendo doesn't really teach rigorous edge alignment. However it does teach a lot of the mechanics of the cut and how to make adjustments. Getting good tip speed should be fairly easy. However it also doesn't teach near as much follow through. A 'correct' cut stops just the other side of the cut object, but you don't cut through like you are doing. The other huge issue is you only cut from a few directions in kendo. You can see the kendoka struggling with that. It would have been interesting to set up the tatami horizontal like a kote and have them cut it.
I did Kendo for the better part of a decade and from my experience, it definitely helped with the fundamentals of cutting. But what it didn't help with was the follow through. Usually they would prioritize the tap and raise, with the idea being not to get the blade stuck in the opponent. I suppose it was more akin to a push cut rather than a draw cut.
in an real fight, an 2 inch cut in an sweet spot is all you need, chopping off an arm is nice if it won't open your body, or overcommit to the swing, but usually, it's overboard if you can't stop the blade if you miss the target.
Kendo cuts are also very wrist based, to create the snap. I don't think this helps cut objects, where the energy needs to be higher up the blade.
This is actually why I quit Kendo in highschool to study Kenjustsu. I wanted to learn how to use a real sword and do tameshigiri, not tap each other with shinai for points. Kendo is all about speed but in a real sword fight there's so much more to it, edge alignment, power, follow through, sword balance etc. Wasn't sure how these kendo practitioners would fair but it's interesting to watch. Nice vid man!
That ending was beautiful
This video was extremely satisfying, I haven't really felt like "Wow this video from Skall was super enjoyable to watch" in a long time (not saying your other videos are bad, it's just one is just REALLY satisfying...)
That was such a delight to watch. The music, the guys commentary, all of it. Can we have more?
You got a genuine lol outa me with that ending, thank you Skal
Generalized statement about kendo: it does not teach how to cut. It teaches the kiritsuke (wounding) which precedes a killing stroke (kirioroshi). The Japanese for some reason compartmentalize their martial arts to an extreme degree, and thus with the katana this means that kendo is only like a third of how to actually handle a sword.
"For some reason" ... that reason would be the Meiji restoration which dismantled the samurai class.
It's not limited to the katana alone. It also doesn't explain the internal segregation and compartmentalization of techniques either. It's a national character (flaw?).
I think personally they kinda made up lot of the stuff in modern kendo, and basicly modelled it to be similar than olympic style fencing. They have these stories for example that the different points they are required to hit shows the weak spots in samurai armor or something, but to me it looks like its taken directly from western fencing sport, and the point system. I would imagine the actual sword practise in japan before modernization was lot more similar to well swordsmanship in west as well before modern sport
@@lalli8152 If you are curious, this 24 minute video provides a very concise history of kendo
czcams.com/video/AP_NwitaquM/video.html
I have done kendo for a few years now, and this is the first that I have heard this nonsense about the weak points of the samurai armor. We have our targets because they are the easiest to armor without restricting mobility.
Kendo seems the way that it is because it emerged from the striking practice of jikishinkage-ryu. They used it for spiritual (controlled intensity) development and not combat simulation.
@@Ianmar1 makes sense. I heard the armor thing i think to be fair in western source, and not japanese. Might have been even tv show about different martial arts
I've started watching you back in the day of 'ending stuff rightly' and enjoyed watching your content now and again. Lately however I find myself watching almost every upload, you have evolved so much as a content creator. Just wanted to note that, thank you and keep up the good work =)
Glad to know, thanks!
I enjoyed that alot more than i thought i would. As someone who hasn’t ever cut with swords it made me appreciate the skill involved in the art alot more 👍😊
Looked like you were having fun, love the encouraging and instructive atmosphere! Wish I could spend an afternoon cutting bottles and mats with you guys.
They can absolutely swing, and they picked up edge alignment fast - well done.
This video brought up an interesting thinking point for me that I never considered before, because I always made the assumption that it went hand in hand. How many people who practice HEMA, and are able to spar, aren't able to properly cut? It's one thing to be able to learn the techniques and spar to a level of being able to score hits, but someone can learn to do that while not having proper edge alignment because the strikes are blunt in sparring with no way to asess it. It's an interesting scenario where someone can be skilled enough to fight with good technique, but in a sharp blade scenario they would "struggle" (relative of course because getting hit with a sharp blade with bad edge alignment would still do a lot of damage and I doubt people on the battlefield or in duels really fussed that much about perfect alignment).
That joke at the end about people complaining about the videos ending abruptly had me laughing out loud. 😀
the editing on this video is 🤌
Interesting to see several kinds of swords used rather than just the equivalent to what they usually train for... and just how little difference it seemed to actually make. Almost choked on my drink at that ending, nicely done
A very important video. It really demonstrates the difference between someone doing something regularly and being adequate at it and someone who has no experience with an activity.
No offense to your friends, but those are some truly atrocious cuts, especially with Balaur Arms/LK Chen swords you could even execute zwerchau with so cleanly that the top stacked on the bottom! I have had people who have never touched a sword coming to a cutting party doing far better than that. My wife doesn’t cut much with swords and even time she actually cuts, she does it very well. I’ve seen Matthew Jensen’s teen daughter cutting well and she clearly isn’t a practitioner of any sort.
No problem though, just practice and practice. Your slow motion footage shows that these first-timers are terrified of hitting the stand (even though they still did), and subconsciously cutting away from the targets rather than into it-hence constantly cutting into the neck, the worst part of the target to cut through. Their stances are also completely wrong. If not to do any passing step, at least position your swing that it doesn’t cleave into the direction of your lead foot. It’s just better biomechanics to use your body to generate torque anyway.
Sometimes people leave comments under my video “why don’t you do this during cutting, why don’t you cut that kind of target”. Judging from the language they use, it’s clearly from someone who have never laid an eye on an actual sword in their lives let alone handling them. All I ask them to do is to go buy or borrow a sword and cut a few mats or bottles themselves and see how they would do.
BTW looking forward to your review of those Balaur Arms new models by LK Chen. I have all 3 models here, already reviewed the kriegsmesser, and found their quality astonishing.
I don't think I've ever seen that dude with the watermelon clip. It immediately made me curl up in a ball from flinching.
Man that lawn needs some love.
Lol that ending though.
Best ending of your videos so far. Fantastic. Encore!
The abrupt way the video ends while Skall is talking about people not liking how his videos abruptly ends was just gold🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
9:59 “This one does not spark joy”
Thanks, Marie Kendo!
It's so satisfying when one of your buddies finally gets it.
0:35 I cut my middle finger to the bone with a jambiya in similar fashion when I first started my journey with weapons 14 years ago.
I learned to always be conscious of where your other hand was in relation to the weapon. lol There's a reason why you see people tucking their hand behind their back or at their side while practicing.
I feel entertained. Thank you.
Hey skall I'm here to brag! After years of having a crush on that Hungarian two handed axe you had/have I finally got mine!
Im happy for that kid... He got some in the end... Good job kid
The guy with the melon just gave me the chills of the month. Holy crap...
You cracked me into laugther with the ending, i love it
OHHHH MY GOD....
I nearly fell to the ground... And started holding my hand and yelling.
JUST SEEING THAT GUY THAT HELD THE WATERMELON
From vids on Lets ask Shogu or Seki Sensei, even Japanese people who practice in Iaido often aren't good at tameshigiri unless they've advanced so far that they finally start practicing it. So I don't think people who only practice kendo would be good at it.
Another school of swordsmanship that includes tameshigiri earlier is called battoudo.
What a great idea for a video! I saw another comment that said tennis or golfers would be fun to see how they cut.
nice ending... smooth as silk to the Endcard👍
I love the ending. :)
That looks like fun. :)
7:57 "serious business" killed me 🤣
jajajajajajajaja!!!
You beautifully bearded motherf...
Good video! I laughted a lot at the end!!
That end really got me!
This was a fun video, people trying swords is a nice concept, I would love to see a baseball player give it a try.
This video was so good and interesting because it proves that kendoka KNOWS how to use a sword and not the bullcrap people say like “oh in kendo they use shinais, that must mean that they don’t know how to use an actual sword!” as a matter of fact, kendoka are way more used to heavy swords than people might think, in kendo there is a wooden sword called a suburitō which is basically bigger and heavier bokken weighing about as much as a longsword its center of gravity is basically in the middle of the blade making it much harder to swing effectively than real swords, keep in mind that its used for building the muscles you use to swing a sword or a shinai👍
that ending though. had to rewind because I was like "did he really said that?!" LOL
Abrupt endings are actually good because it more easily allows people to completely finish the video wich is important to the almighty algorithm
Quality banter, and it was nice seeing those two dudes really catch on as the video went.
Also, nice joke there at the end about the abru
I think the issue Wataru was having is that he was trying to stop the blade after he felt the hit instead of following through with the same force.
From a kendo perspective it makes sense, you aren't going to cut the opponent with a shinai, so all techniques in competition revolve around quick hits and disengaging the blade constantly. But as soon as he understood that he needs to do it faster and not stopping so early he started to get better.
so his name is Wataru and the other one is Sindri?
A like just for that ending! Bravo!
I jump between kendo, iaido, and jodo. I also do tameshigiri and haven't had an issue. You just have to carry your strikes through instead of stopping as there is a person in the way.
Omg, the way you ended the video had me literally laughing out loud.
"People complain about video ending to abruptly so I´m going t..." ... troll us ... well ülayed Skall, well played.
Nice smooth ending
that ending made me laugh loudlly !! .
Greetings from Brazil
That was so much fun to watch! Also, that kilij is just, mmm. I love it so much. Great ending there.
Thanks for the beautiful clean cut at the end. That's exactly what I needed.
Interesting. I did not expect them to pick it up so fast
They have the muscle development, just not the technique.
Awsome video! So nice to just see you have a great time and analyzing your swings. Very satisfying!
nice to see this transfer and abrupt fin..
Very fun stuff, makes me want to pick up some kind of sword training now that I know they are at least partially translatable to other types of swords.
11:33 that little bounce he got from empowerment after getting his 3rd cut in a row was great Lol
Lovely video, the ending was am
Perfect outro!
And so, Wataru begins his journey to myrmidon. I hope we see him come back to cut more stuff!
This is awesome. I've been brush clearing with a machete, messing around mostly, and notice a lot of familiar things. When you get a solid swing zeroed in you barely feel it cut through. When you don't then you totally feel it...
This is very satisfying to watch.
Ending was 10/10
this is fun! I'm personally also been cutting bottles to test my cutting skills coming out from a Kata based Iaido. and yes - its definately not as easy as it looks, ive still ways to go 🤭. Love it
That ending was perfe-
ending was perfect
Wonderfull video. Fun and informative at the same time.
The ending was so smooth ...
12:05
Perfect cut of the video.
the End was peak Comedy xD
Love that ending XD
You're right your sample size is small. I think it interesting how quickly they picked up ising a steel sword. It was fun to see the difference between you'all.
Great ending. Love it.
Lol skall flexing with the kriegsmesser was great
Obviously current kendo hasn't as a primary goal the learning of real life sword fight, with real katana, BUT i have the impression that so many kendoka (and kendo dojos) tend to forget how important should be the serious practice with bokuto/bokken for a more comprehensive learning.
My impression was that Kendo is pretty practical as a stick fighting system,regardless of applicability to blades.