Why you don't need a Red/Cinema Camera
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- I owned a Red Scarlet-W for the last 3-4 years and I finally made the decision to sell it. For all the new filmmakers and just anyone considering buying a cinema camera, I hope this video helps you make a smarter decision.
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TimeStamps:
0:00- Pre-intro
0:43- Introduction
2:17- Things I enjoyed about using the Red
4:08 - Things I disliked about using the Red
12:06- Europe Trip w/ Quadeca and experience with BMPCC4k
15:06- Why you don't need a Red/Cinema Camera
20:26- Final Thoughts
22:08- Memes
I'm not sure why this video is all the sudden getting some attention after 2 years. My viewpoint still stands but I sure do miss that .R3d Codec lol. I've been making some more videos recently about growing your video business and I think it'll be a lot more beneficial than these gear focused videos.
Main point of this video, make sure you have the tool that helps you do your job best. As you can see in the comments, some of these guys benefit GREATLY from owning a Red camera, that's the minority though. Do what makes the most sense for you. Thanks for watching guys.
I just saw this and sent it to some friends to watch, you make a lot of points to consider and about what holds us back
Right , Thanks being honest
curious, what are you using now? just found your video today, after watching Andreas Hem
You are so off base with almost every single point except media cost and that wasn't the best thing for RED to do. You bring up the BM line up but it's still a manual focus camera. Now, go shoot with the FX3 or FX6 and then you get AF and Stabilization if needed and that's a better faster way to shoot compared to a RED or BM. The other issue is you will not get high end jobs shooting on the BM or hybrids unless you own your own production company and have connections. You got access to high end client and RED matters more than just a name. Try going on the cheap and work with high end agency's and they will sabotage to job and replace you.
Lighting brother is the one thing I am working my ass off to learn. It’s literally everything when it comes to making a vision to come true.
This video alone stopped me from buying a RED. Appreciate your insights dude 👍🏼
I was stopped by my account balance 😄
"its the best image i've used" Pause. Thats why we shoot with it. You can get an accessory for everything but the image quality.
At the time, I never needed a Red. I wanted one, so I got it. First time I've ever kept a camera for more than two years. Going on three with the OG Komodo. My career grew into the system, and now all my *needs* are met without the urge to upgrade.
So dope! I did similar with my OG Komodo and it’s been amazing
Keep making videos like this. It’s helping those who need it 💪🏾
Thanks 🤝
If you run a business, Blackmagic cameras are the smart choice. I think when you're first starting out owning a cinema camera is a good idea to get you comfortable with working on it without having to go through the process of booking the rental going to get the equipment etc., but then there becomes a point where your return on investment is just as important as the quality of the raw footage that you're heading off to a client or editing yourself. the thing that you too can reviewers brought to the table was exploiting that inherent need to think that in order to have all your options available as a fellow producer you need all of this stuff that then only gets used a few times if at all. I can't tell you how much money I lost initially by buying things like a gimbal that never got used. for a while there I really thought that I needed a camera with autofocus but many of these reviewers are rewarded by showing slightly older cameras autofocus in the worst possible scenario to make you feel that anxiety.
There's an old saying that if you cannot buy two of the same camera body so you have one is backup then that camera is not for you, and you should rent.
The discussion was awesome and very humbling
Been shooting BMPCC4k for 3 years now. never been happier. only thing missing is autofocus for those live event jobs.
You are SO right- Crafting Lighting First (2nd/3rd etc!) Then composition and camera movement. Then lenses. Today (finally) almost any of the better 'cine' mirrorless cameras can record more than enough resolution and color depth to do the rest...
I love your transparency
I was at the opposite end of the spectrum. I knew how to shape light and was accustomed to shooting on film, typically medium format. I started shooting narrative work and the video camera footage quality was wrecking my shots. It wasn’t until I used a higher end camera that the camera was able to capture the lighting that was happening in front of the lens. Everyone has their own journey. But for what it’s worth, I don’t use anything other than my phone unless I’m actually shooting a scene or doing a camera test. I know my phone wrecks lighting, can’t capture colors properly etc. but it’s ultra-light and always available. But if I’m actually shooting, heavy cameras, heavy tripods, hot lights etc. don’t bother me a bit. If something is heavy, get two people or four or something with hydraulics to lift it but let’s get it where it needs to be. If we’re shooting, it’s time to get to work. 💪 Otherwise my phone is fine.
Holy Fuck you are so spot on. I've recently had an obsession with the older red cameras, but it now seems that the Komodo would be the only practical one to get. But aside from that, I agree completely. Lighting and composition are everything when it comes to the technical side. But if you don't have a solid script, you might as well not even turn the camera on. Pre-production and story is 80% of what makes a video good.
Oh man, thanks for this reality check. I needed it haha
As a retiree - two-thirds of whose life was spent watching movies originated on film - the Red Komodo - bought last year to indulge a “serious hobby” - is a great “digital acquisition device” - that said, I, also, have a Panasonic GH 5 - bought second hand - and the VLog footage from it is pretty damn good. I mainly shoot outdoors - using - guess what - mainly natural light - put me in a situation where artificial lighting has to be relied upon and I suspect a guy (or gal) who knows how to light a scene - and just uses a not too expensive Sony Mirrorless DSLR shooting some variant of 4K (that’s not a Raw format) - will get far better footage than myself with the Red Komodo and limited knowledge of how to light a scene !
I don’t own a RED due to the fact that I can’t afford it. My main Cams are GH5s and GH5 and I’m glad to hear a Komodo owner giving a nice shout out on the GH5. It is still a very decent camera. Good enough to create and tell good stories.
Really enjoyed this. Ty!
The reason why it plays back faster even though it’s raw is because your computer doesn’t have to “uncompress” it to play it so it saves on computing power and time. H264 is very compressed so tends to play back laggy. That’s just where optimization comes in play. That’s why most people transcode to DNXHD or ProRes for editorial because playback is faster. Especially DNXHD or DNXHR for Avid in an MXF wrapper because that’s more native for avid than other codecs and is the standard offline intermediate format. Gets a little more complicated than that but that’s the basics boiled down. Try realtime playback of 6k h264 footage in a .mp4 wrapper and try playing back 8k footage in a DNXHR codec in a .MXF wrapper and see which is faster.
Great video! Thank you for reminding me I don't need a cinema camera to create good content!
Thank you! It's something I wish I would have learned earlier on.
Nice to meet you man. I def need to learn how to light probably.
YES KING PREACH
Thanks for the video ! I had the same feeling. I have the RED GEMINI and then I bought the POCKET 6K. I really feel that the blackmagic is doing almost a perfect camera. I almost only use the POCKET now and would like to sell my Gemini as I really don't use it anymore (gimbal usage is complicate, weight, etc..) .
YOU DID GREAT WITH THIS VIDEO I LEARNT SOMETHING
Real talk!💯🎥
Good advice!
Spitting fire… Dracarys 🔥🔥🔥
Awesome vid. Was considering selling my GH6, but nah just gonna work on my self.
I did the whole thing with a company, up streaming from old Canon 550D so long ago to the Red Epic MX and used it for a while, but now use Panasonic S1H and recently got an S5 ii.
In the end usability wins, and TBH Panasonic colour is better I think. It so much more fun to just grab shots on the S5 ii with AF entirely handheld with IBIS and 14 stop log at 150mbps
I've been saying all this for like 10 years without owning a Red :) Hollywood production and single shooters are like cars and space shuttles, that's why Hollywood gear never works for most of us. That being said, Canon C70 is the best solo shooter camera on the market, no matter what you do.
good informative video
Best resource for learning HOW TO LIGHT?
You are right, I have an C100 OG and a 1DC and didn’t even scratched the potential of those camera. For user friendliness and price they stomp and dance on the Red. I don’t care about a 20000$ image quality. Red is really great only for Fincher.
Intresting 🎉ThankYou
We have several Red cameras and they can do many things for us that pretty much no other camera can do. Filming wildlife in high frame rate at very high resolution is fantastic. I would not trade the Red cameras for anything else for those tasks.
Seriously? NO OTHER camera offers high frame rates?? Literally so many other brands shoot high frame rates
@@305kubrick Ok, name the one you would pick instead? Some benefits of the Raptor/Rhino is 120fps at 8K resolution with an incredible 800MB/s data in red raw format.
@@305kubrick What camera would you recommend that can compare with the Red in resolution/fps? Red Raptor/Rhino can do 120fps in 8k resolution raw, 6k in 160fps, 4k in 240fps and 2k 480fps. I also use Phantom VEO 990 for even more slow motion which can do 1000fps in 4k, but it is a LOT more expensive and can only film slow motion. The red coded is very nice to work with, still my favorite codec and the colors and dynamic range is fantastic. The problem with almost all other cameras is that when you use higher fps then the resolution drops a lot. I do agree that you do not need a Red camera to be a film maker, but I think there is too much bashing of Red. I use them for 15 years and have loved them, and I have friends filming IMAX and high end documentaries that have Red as their main cameras. I never had a Red camera break on me and the support has always been good for me.
@@andreasoberg2021 Ursa Mini Pro 12k also shoots 120fps in 8k raw as well. It costs $6000. Red Raptor costs $25k for just camera body. Throw some quality glass on both and you can't tell difference. Either can be graded to look like the other. The Ursa Mini Pro 4.6k G2 can shoot 4.6k compressed raw at 120 fps and UHD raw at 150fps. Literally so many cameras are able to shoot high frame rates, it's weird that you would think that only Red is able to do that.
@@305kubrick That is the only camera I can think of that is comparable. Higher resolution which is good and of course cheaper. From the tests I have seen the colors and dynamic range was not as good but that was a while ago that I saw. In my experience and projects the price of the camera has not the biggest part. What has cost us the most is lenses and also the trips for filming. Still always great with more affordable options.
I just found your video, and I'm working with a Red6k....I totally agree with you. I'm glad it's not mine. I'm working with a director who bought the Red. I hate it... is rather have the C70.
"People are hiring you just for you gear"
I remember working on seta when rhe epic and Scarlett were the big thing
People would undercut each other by huge margins just to get on set
I worked with this one Producer once who would hit up people who had these super low op with red kits and just ask for the camera...
Definitely saw that first hand, people only wanting the gear
What’s your option the Komodo x in 2023?
I will never buy a red camera, and will never make filming my hobby or work, but this is a very interesting video
Thanks for watching!
About the red RAW being so easy to chew for your hardware: It's due to it being a RAW format. It's not compressed, meaning it doesn't need to be decompressed ergo demands way less processing. Yes, the files are bigger but in a nutshell your pooter doesn't need to do anything but simply read the frames and that's it.
Assuming that you compared it to a Sony log format. I'm baked and I just got home from my night shift. 😂
Actually red raw is compressed, but very little and very efficiently. So the files are much smaller than full uncompressed files, but with very small loss of visual quality.
Which Red was it?
I like how these youtube Camara review people say you don't need a RED or Arri and still buys a lot of them.
Most people on CZcams who say gear doesn't matter own a +$3k Sony camera.
What about the Komodo? It’s small and light and decently priced.
I've used the Komodo once In a Music video environment while traveling and it was definitely an improvement!
Should I buy red gemini for night shoots or some other option I have? Can you please reply? Thank you
I would recommend getting an A7siii and rigging it out unless you need a red for some reason. A7siii will probably have better low light than the Gemini, but I've never used it.
@@thaddeusswift thank you for your reply💕
@@ozzozz3529 A7S3 is very good for low light. Gemini will be better in other areas though.
Hey! If I had an Arri, I'd be planning my trip to the Oscars man! Lol... I have gear at the moment, just none of it working yet. But not that level of gear, I have a HPX250EJ, but no damn media card for it yet, tried to buy a card and just got cheated out of the money. So saving up for a new attempt at buying a P2 card heh, the original attempt will take a looong time before anything comes out of it, with police involved etc it seems.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
It really depends on how high your standards are, and what kinds of shoots you do. I would not personally say that a BM camera gives you 90% of the image quality a Red does. More like 50%. I find that BM cameras apply a kind of "cheap and ugly" filter on everything you put in front of them, no matter how well lit, well framed and well etc. it may be And if you like to really work an image in post, Red Raw is WAY better than BRaw. Yes, it's likely the wrong tool for very low budget no crew run and gun, but even there - not having to set ISO and WB on set (because it's exactly the same if you do it post) can help you move way faster. But there is no perfect answer here. Personally, I am much more interested in doing very perfected and pre-planned work vs rough and tumble, so I've planned my career accordingly, and that includes gear purchases and rentals. In reality there is no right or wrong blanket answer. There is only the right answer for your particular goals.
Aloha🤙, I'm new to fliming...would you suggest an older red scarlet x used on ebay $3k kit or a brand new BM for about the same?
How many clients though, even understand what camera is what? I talk with clients and many don't even know what HD or UHD is yet. lol
Yo bro.. you just saved my money
One thing that sets me off is someone hyping up their brand without knowing Jack about other brands. Red raw is no where close to being the best raw format. Red is not the sports car of cameras as they overheat and shutdown during filming.
Red cameras are insanely expensive, once you start factoring in everything needed to actually use it as intended. you're looking at $20k minimum.
Get a Canon C70 or R5C.
Or get a Sony FX6.
Welcome to bmpcc4k my fav camera for the price
SPITTING GAME
With headroom like that I don’t think you need one either lol
Lmao facts
Lighting is freaking key! Spend money on lighting and learn that sh#*t
I just need my sigma fp and im good 😊 😁.
REAL is sweet to reach....
Red, Sony, Blackmagic, Canon, Panasonic all make great cameras that produce fantastic images. The problem with RED is that their imagery, although great, does not justify it’s cost compared to imagery of other cameras. Remember when Red promised 4k for $4k? Then released their first camera for $17k. That was a sign of things to come. The market is flooded with expensive RED’s which lose insane value in just two years. And how many times have we seen RED owners/operators come out for $500 a day? PLENTY. Blackmagic is eating everyone’s lunch with the 4k, 6k and Ursa Mini class. Fantastic imagery, great codecs and world class editing/color grading software to match. Once BMD figures out a modular design, they will dominate the market.
Well. You can actually make a great deal and buy used Red cameras after 2 years. We have 3 Red cameras and 2 of them we bought half a year old for a great price. So it is a pretty cheap way to get a fantastic camera. From what I can see the Blackmagic image quality is quite a big step below Red. Still a great price and I'm always curious when they release a new camera.
@@andreasoberg2021 As a professional cinematographer, I've worked with Arri, Red, Sony, Canon and BMD. Out of all those brands, I've given my loyalty to BMD because for the price point, they can't be beat. The image quality, features, codecs and color science are top notch and easily holds its own against all those other brands. If Red was more affordable, I'd probably be more open to owning one, but even then, BMD menu's are much easier to use and navigate. But I can see how owning an expensive camera can make you feel that a cheaper one means lesser image quality.
At this point, cameras don’t matter. An A7 or R5 or S1 can produce 90% of the quality of a RED or ARRI. It’s everything else that matters. Also, Mac’s suck at transcoding video, this has been a misnomer since the early 2000’s. Get on a decent PC dude you’ll save thousands of dollars and get better performance.
No brainer
Problem with the black magic camera is that the rolling shutter sucks. I don’t know how you can deal with that and the latency on the viewfinder is terrible. If you’re going to downgrade, downgrade to the Komodo X. I shot one project on that and it looks more like film than any other mirrorless camera I have seen. You might also now look into the Panasonic S52X. Talk about getting your moneys worth.
havent seen this on my 6k in 3 years. Maybe the 4k? more so any canon camera lol
F those redicolous producers and directors who know nothing of cameras but request ArRi Or ReD
I wouldn't spend over $1000 for a camera
We have and use a RED at work. It's my bosses baby. I hate using it. It's UI is shit and it's horrible to use. Slow and clunky.
I burp regularly.... also.
Lights? We`re living in War times. You won't have time to light a scene alone when the real crisis comes but If you don't have a Global Shutter camera and some real good Cinema lenses, you're just a children playing with a plastics toys. And Red Komodo is the smallest camera that can give you that freedom.
CRAZY.haha I almost purchased the RED Komodo, but I understood this man's mistake early on and ended up buying the Pocket 4k. The smartest investment in my life!
No the reason your images weren’t good was because you needed an arri 😫
red: most overrated brand ever
The smarter smarter decision is to learn pace and conciseness. You ramble and take way to long to make your points.