Are Deep Carbon Wheels Actually Faster? Ascent Polaris vs Farsports S3
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2022
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Do the cheap vs expensive carbon wheel comparison please.
6:17 "If that's something you guys are interested in..." obvs..✌
Pothole test?
Definitely
yes!
Yes. Jeff. Do that thing you said.
Edited after examining data:
Thank you for taking the wheels out for a ride! We're glad you chose them to go to Intelligentsia with. I am concerned about some of the test data:
1) Something seems rather off with the Strava speeds and times. The Polaris 69mm took 13:01 for the total course and 5:28 for the downhill, which is 7:33 for the uphill. The Farsports took 12:49 and 6:07, which is 6:42 for the uphill. A 51 second difference on a 2.65 mile mild uphill course does not make any sense, other than if external factors were involved. I hope you did control for as many environmental factors as possible.
2) The deeper wheels will seem harder to spin up from a stop - this is due to the larger rotational inertia, with more mass toward the outside. Luckily, bikes have gears, and one of the ways I use to spin up quickly is to drop to the small ring whenever I stop. This way, I have an easy start that doesn't tire me out, and I can switch to the big ring thereafter.
3) The Polaris can take up to a maximum of 32mm tires, though it is optimal at 28mm. If the place you're living in has rougher roads, you can afford to get more comfort (and reduce viscoelastic losses) while maintaining aerodynamics.
4) The increase in downhill speed seems greater than expected, but this could also be due to external factors.
5) For those who are looking for something shallower in the Polaris family, we will have something for you soon. Stay tuned!
Once again, thank you for doing this test. I hope you will be able to improve the methodology to account for externalities going forward.
-QX
Founder
Ascent Bikes
W brand
@@joshuayonson431 🙏 thanks!
I am shocked that you are letting it go like that as a brand that promotes their aerodynamic advantage. One would think such a company would know how to do physics and maths. If any half capable engineer took a minute to think about it they would quickly come to the conclusion, that 300g of difference are not even CLOSE enough to explain such a difference, even if you disregard the aerodynamic advantage completely. Assuming a total system weight of 80kg (which as far as I know is very generous) 300g are only a 0.375% difference. The time advantage over 13 minutes was ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE beyond that. Does that mean your wheels are the opposite of what they say they are? Super unaerodynamic to the point where they slow you down way beyond what super shallow wheels would?
@@NoluckBear Thank you for that feedback. It's been a long day at work. You raise good points about system weight, though I think the main concern I would have is the repeatability of the test setup in uncontrolled/uncontrollable conditions. It's entirely possible too, that shallower wheels have a lower moment of inertia, which makes them feel more snappy.
Couple of things which might affect:
Air temps (density and drag)
Presence of prevailing winds
Rider position
Controlling for these would definitely help, as would have more runs. The issue with more runs, is that you end up with varying environmental conditions. What I do know for sure though, is that we have many riders both locally and around the world who have been riding and loving the wheels.
Very interesting comparison indeed. I have a friend who had the Ascent Zenith 50mm on his Specialized Roubaix (though now he's on Rovals on his SL7) & it sounded and performed great!
Though, between the 69mm Polaris and 50mm Zenith wheels, I'd pick the Zenith instead since it's not too deep nor too shallow. Plus having seen what the Zenith could do, it's a decent wheelset.
I think all these tests are actually testing the difference in wind between the first and second run.
Also the upper body position looked different - more upright on the first run (= testing the deeper section wheels).
Also loads of variables like tyre choice, interface between the rim and the Tyre, rolling resistance etc. you’d need to do 2 runs each at least in exactly the same position at the same power.
Comparing two different manufacturers wheels at two different depths doesn’t really tell you much.
Also at the end of the 2nd run (shallow wheels) the shirt is unzipped, that would make w huge aero difference.
So many factors go into it as well. Tire width is also extremely important to be matched to the rims (and frame), then lateral wind, turbulences caused by frame and rider, passing cars (peloton) etc.
Even F1 is having a hard time figuring out if their aero update made any difference, since there are so many factors at play, so take it for what it is.
Loving all of the testing videos...more please!
Great vid. Do the cheap versus expensive carbon wheel comparison please. Much appreciate your thought on giving us a guide what to spend money on. Keep it on!
Production has really improved Jeff! Hoping for more success and new videos.
This video couldn't come at a better time. Getting ready for my next bike purchase and have been on the fence about upgrading the wheels from the get-go.
Fantastic videos. Always enjoy so have subscribed. Love the science and validation, makes such a difference to the usual CZcams ranting for certain people. Thanks. Pete, Devon UK.
Wheel comparison please! Love your content. Cheers.
I am a huge fan of these tests of yours.
Currently in the process of figuring out if I care more about aero or an all-round platform and these videos are super helpful
really good video, wasnt expecting that result.
we did and experiment with 2 different brands bontrager aeolus 3 30 mm vs 60 mm Reynolds.. and such a huge difference between climbing and flat... deep wheels for crits and shallow ones for climbing. thanks for this video it help me out as well to understand even more the huge difference so I wasn't wrong..
@Norcal Cycling I’ve been running 88mm deep carbon wheels for the past 6 seasons & they fly ! Once you get these wheels up to speed they just hold their speed very well. I bought a pair of YoeleoSports’s SAT 88 MM wheels (rim brakes) for my at the time, new Cannondale CAAD 12. I liked them so much I purchased a 2nd pair a few months afterwards. Fast forward to 2022, I just bought a 2021 Cannondale Synapse & I purchased my 3rd set of YoeleoSports’s 88MM Disc wheel set and these wheels perform well on flats and uphill as long as you have the power to get them up to speed for them to work their magic. So I’m all for deep disc wheels 🚴🏾🔥💨
what about when descending on those wheels? high speed downhill with deep wheels feels scary even with the slightest crosswind...
Please do the 50/50 test. Thanks and keep up the great videos!
yup looking forward to that cheap vs pricey comparison video too
Sure it'd be an amazing video to see cheap carbon vs expensive carbon wheels.
there is already so many videos on this. china direct wheels are always better then china made "american" brands.
@@JwallzMTB Do you mean big brands like Winspace, Elite or also more budget options?
@@Kansloos_ you pay for corporate america with a sticker.
Test Enve against Superteam.
@@tomkunich9401 Winspace, Superteam are on par to all top brands. It is already tested, supercheap wheels vs durace c50, durace just slightly better than supercheap wheels.
If we compare Winspace hyper or Superteam to Durace, there is no difference at all.
+1 for comparision cheap vs expensive deep wheels! Grazie mille!
Hey! Usually I feel like you take those things into account and do know what you are talking about and I think I remember reading that your day job did have some “sciency“ stuff in it. But in this case I feel like you didn’t take the time to think about the physics behind it. Even disregarding the aerodynamic advantage of the deeper section wheels completely, a weight difference of 300g even for a steep climb over the same distance shouldn’t make even close to the difference you saw in your test. Like orders of magnitude basically. So obviously there must have been some other differences like a changing headwind or a change in position etc.
So maybe to just get some numbers behind that: If you take one of the many available bike calculators online and you assume a climb of 7% steepness over 10km, at 320W of power, the difference between an 8kg bike and a 7.7kg bike for a rider of 73kg would be 6 seconds. So even if the calculator was completely off here we‘d still struggle to arrive anywhere close to your numbers. Put another way: For a total mass of 80kg (which I assume is quite a bit less than your system mass, but still), even 1kg would only be 1.25% weight difference. For a 13 minute course where THE ONLY deciding factor was weight, that would be 9.75 seconds. Do you see where I‘m coming from? Those results are just nowhere near plausible. They are in fact so far off that it would be easier to defend the earth being flat than this being a thing :P
@@NoluckBear Came here to say the same thing. Agree with everything you've said Luca. Also 3mph is too much of a difference for 35mm vs 69mm. 2 km/h would be pushing it, 5 is just way too much. His power was comperable, although the effort was harder on the second run (HR up by about 10 for the same power due to fatigue). The only explanation is wind, either direction or strength which changed between the runs.
Completely agree. On a hill, time saved is proportional to total system weight saved wheareas drag increases with square of velocity. So 300g is pretty unsignificant in the order of less than 0.5% whereas 3km speed difference at 45km/h is 7%. You expect that to be a quarter at half the speed. So still at 22.5 km/h you're looking at 1.7%. From 11 km/h on, the aero gains outweigh the 300g weight difference. You could add about 1kg to your bike and still aero would win if you're going more than 20km/h. So on gentle climbs, up to 5-6% you're better off with aero gains than weight gains. This why I don't bother having a "cheap" 8kg bike with aero wheels rather than a 3000$ more expensive high end lightweight bike.... And sincerely what would 1% time difference matter on the steepest climb if you're not a pro....
@@pirminborer625 Also it‘s quite interesting once you start to consider that you very quickly reach the point where gravity is basically all the resistance you face, which in turn means, you can very easily approximate the biggest difference the weight is going to make. It‘s simply the percentage of the total system mass. In the case of even 2kg (which is massive for us cyclists) for an 80kg system weight that’s just about 2.5%
So the absolute worst case scenario that’s basically ever going to happen in the whole world between two road bikes on a very steep climb is going to be 2.5%.
All of that talk about which wheel is better for climbs starts to sound quite ridiculous all of a sudden, doesn’t it..
Edit: Also you already said all of that and my tired brain for some reason didn’t process that. Sorry for repeating what you already said haha :D
@@Voss27 yes and I have tried to get in touch with Jeff via the wheel company that was sponsoring him in order to discuss this and clear up any confusion. I feel like there is lots to be learned with those kinds of tests, but definitely not that „lighter is better“.
Rather it‘s stuff along the lines of „do you really need to get out of the saddle for that climb? Because that’s going to cost you much more than the 2kgs you saved on your bike, even at 11kph“
Or something like: „Have you ever tried climbing in the drops before? You might be able to produce the same kind of power, but you will be that little bit more aerodynamic!“
Or even: „Did you ever consider your gearing and drivetrain efficiency? Because that’s going to be as much of a factor as the new 10.000€ bike you just bought to save 2kgs“ (and full disclaimer I spend stupid amounts of money to save weight. But I do it because it’s fun, not because I expect to be any faster!)
Yes, Is good idea let's test those 50 wheels. I am thinking of get 1 set. Keep it up. Thanks
kudos for changing the tires over between runs! that's effort!
Hey Jeff! I have done experiments like these before, and there is something else you have to take into account: your weight before each run. Depending on the conditions you can sweat a great deal and wont notice bc it will evaporate... so when I do them I always bring a scale with me and make sure to weight the same b4 each run by drinking water.
I'm doing a research study related to this for my PhD and I've seen sweat rates of around 2.7 l/hr for a work rate of ~300 watts while cycling outdoors, for a bit of data.
Simply put, you would need to run a twin experiment to have accurate in outdoor conditions when the switch over of even ten minutes could efficient the precise accuracy that some of us nuts love so much.
We need to start a go fund me to create these twins in a lab, using Jeff of course (if you know what I mean)…in about 25yrs, we can come back to this test…
Please make sure they start their training early and at the same pace as they grow up into some deadly sprinters.
(Ok, I’m done and sorry for anyone who tries following that thought thread)
and he should do like 5 runs and average them per wheelset.
@@LindseyH24 what, really?! So you're seeing people drop ~2.7kg of mass per hour in these tests? Or maybe you sweat less if you're not replacing the fluid at the same rate.
Quite startling numbers and very interesting!
@@ondene5748 yep, easily. That’s with no fluid ingested for the hour. That makes calculations easier and more reliable. You can of course weigh the water you drink but it’s best to standardise things
Pactimo bibs for the win! Very interesting results, thanks for the video!
Yes definitely do the cheap vs expensive carbon wheel comparison
Great review
looking forward to the 50 vs 50 vid!!
yup more wheel testing, its fun!
Thanks for sharing man. I have a Bianchi (928) climbing bike. I find that 35 or 38 mm wheels suit me and the bike best. The tubular 50mm (DA C50) I have does the job. they are light, but I feels like it hold the bike back a little. But with the shallow ones I feel the quickness when climbing or going on short climbs. One thing I must say. When we are on flats the 50mm does most of the job, while with the shallow one I have to put more effort to hold the speed.
I will switch soon from a climbing bike to a aero bike.
Looking forward to the 50mm wheels comparison.
Stay safe brother.
I'd be interested to see how a run would go with having EACH wheel type on the bike, but swapping them from front to back. A few runs with the 35mm up front and the 69mm in the back, then a few runs with the 69 up front and the 35 in the back. Essentially the weight would be the same for each run, but the aero placement would be the factor.
There was a recent Marginal Gains podcast where they interviewed the folk from Reserve Wheels, who have been working with Jumbo Visma the last few years. They were saying that the front wheel causes enough turbulence that the rear wheel doesn't need to be as deep (i.e. heavy).
Yes, most definitely want to see the 50mm comparison, I'm looking to buy the winspace 50mm or the new 2023 winspace R45.
Great vid!! What about the mixed depth wheelsets? Would that be the perfect balance of weight and aero?
Would love to see you & Hambini chat about aero wheels after you’ve done your 50mm test.
Keep up this content... now for the important question, at what depth is the wheel the best of both worlds?
That was surprising results. Let’s see the 50 mm wheels!!
Yes please do the cheap vs expensive test
great video!
Yes definitely! want to see expensive vs Amazon cheaper or something like that 👌
Awesome vid. I run 65/50front on my S Series 😂 wonder about those. FL rider.
Videos are looking better and better! Are you editing them yourself or have you got a crew-member? Or did you take a skillshare course when they sponsored you?
(maybe leave them a mention in the credits 😉)
It would be nice to hear you cover your take on crosswinds with the two depths.
Super interesting! Would love to see the difference on the 50mm - need to pick up a set soon and budget is definitely an issue
Love these types of comparison videos! They use real world data by a real world dude.
I would like to see a test with similar weight and depth wheels with one meeting the rule of 105 and one not meeting the rule of 105. So basically a comparison of wheels based on their external width exceeding the with of the tire or allowing the tire to light bulb. Seems like there are a lot of wheels out there that still have a 24-25mm external compared to those with a 27 to 28mm external. Just have always been curious how much of a gain this actually translates too.
50mm test please Jeff👍 Great video as always 😊
Great video! I'd like to know are "special shaped" wheels (like the Zipp 454 or Princeton 6560) actually better/faster in crosswind?
Yes for the cheaper vs more expensive 50mms!! Not everyone has deep pockets.
And what happened to that Tobu/No copy right music that was in videos months earlier? That was fantastic!
I have 50mm ~1600g (set) Superteam wheels off amazon for $399. They have been rock solid. The only thing is I have some cassette bite on the hub. Would love to see the video because the value there is insane.
I have two pairs of superteam wheels. 55mm on my road bike and 45mm on my gravel bike. Great wheels, no issues on either set for me. The only downside is they take a few months to receive after ordering.
@@adrianc6534 Nice! I got mine on amazon and they came within a week!
Looking forward to the 50mm cheap v expensive review. I have both cheap and mid-expensive 38mms and there's not much between them. The cheaper ones make perfect sense for training rides and save the goodies for race day.
I like how shallower carbon wheels offer aero benefits while being lighter. It seems they’re more “all rounder” than 50mm. The cheap vs expensive 50mm wheelset test is a MUST HAVE! I’m a heavier rider & have been looking to purchase 50mm b/c I wanted the added security deeper wheels offer compared to my climbing wheels.
I would love the cheap vs expensive comparison. I have a pair of Prime 45mm wheels; not expensive. I'm curious to see what you learn! My prediction, the cheap wheels aren't going to save a lot at high speeds, but the more expensive wheels will be lighter, so they will climb and accelerate a lot better than cheaper wheels.
Looking forward to the Cheap vs. expensive comparison. I own some cheaper 50mm Carbon wheels which I love (Thanks Scribe!), so I am very curious.
Interesting results. Were the 69mm wheels a lot slower on the outlap? Definitely want to see cheap Vs expensive 50mm carbon wheels.
Be interested in uphill sprint deltas vs flat sprint deltas. Also acceleration time from 20 to 50 at a set power. The difference might be small over 100m but its the final 100m or creating splits that count!
Thanks for confirming my decision to get shallow wheels. Also better for stop and go city traffic on your route. Would have been great to see an acceleration test between the two. Also, noticed u weighed the wheels w/o disc brakes attached. We agree those things are atrocious
Hey Jeff, can you test shallow wheels vs deep wheels when on a full on sprint? How much speed does it get you. Try 35, 50, 60
Do every comparison you can think of! Super useful.
As a rank amateur (Cat 5), I’m not hitting the speeds where deep wheels will help a lot, and in fact I’ve done a bunch of rubber-banding when I race (accelerate hard, coast, accelerate hard, coast), so I believe the shallower profile would help me much more. Aaaaaand I generally ride in a hilly area, tipping the scales even further towards ‘shallower’.
A shallower wheel would definitely be easier to accelerate. However, as Jeff has shown in previous videos, consistency is key to winning. You don't want to keep burning matches by doing hard efforts. It's better to keep the effort consistent and aerobic wherever possible - this applies whether you use deep or shallow wheels.
@@ascentbikes 100%! I need to smooth out my efforts, but it's hard when the field is all over the place. I'll get there!
I would love to see you do a crit race with both wheels. The deep carbon wheels also look better, but I have yet to see the results to prove they are. Just like you said at the end of the video, you will cont to race the deep dish wheels anyway. I raced many years ago, the handling in the corners is better and the acceleration out of corners and sprint is just better with the smaller rims. We don't want it to be true, but it is. I dare you to do a test with standing to rolling sprints and see what your acceleration to speed is with the different wheels. You should even have someone lead you out at 28+ mph and sprint around them. The gains you saw in your video were at a constant wattage , solo. When are you solo in a crit? Correct, if you plan on trying to drop everyone after 10 laps and go solo then by all means use the Deep dish wheels. I read the brainiacs replies below and none of it has to do with riding in a tight pack and closing gaps as fast as you can and then sitting back in someone else's draft. Love your content and will continue to watch all your stuff.
yes this. He made a completely wrong assumption that high crit average speed means you need deep rims. That would only be the case if he was going on a solo or like 2-man break, or expects to spend a lot of time on the front of the peloton pulling back breaks.
Yes on the 50mm test
I weigh 58kg. Anything over a 15mph crosswind gets a little dicey for me with 50mm wheels especially if it's gusty. I'm on 38mm now and find them way easier to control in wind. So if you're really lightweight like me, and live in a place that is commonly windy, it's probably better to get something a little shallower. 38-45mm will still reap some aero benefits over super shallow wheels.
Yeah I'm 63kg on a good day and even for me, 35mm seem like the best choice in windy conditions, which can be any day where I live. And is it just my eyes or do most of the pro racers seem to be on wheels closer to 35mm than 50mm?
that's interesting, thanks Jeff, let's see how the cheap vs expensive perform
Would love to see a test between a set of Superteam carbon wheels vs expensive, name brand carbon wheels of the same depth. Because I have a set of Superteam wheels that I paid less than $300 for brand new (38mm) and they're awesome. Thousands of miles on them and they still look great and are very true.
Literally about to buy a set of wheels (likely 50mm) so this is extremely relevant.
Were tire pressure same?
Excited to see cheap vs expensive
I ride a 2022 Giant TCR ADV 1 KOM. Can you do a comparison with the stock stem and handlebars vs the aero ones that you're using now? Thank you and ride safe always.🙏
Great video but like
Wind, Position, Weight, altitude, gradient, what surface your on exactly. etc
The 50mm to 50mm comparison would be great!!
I am excited to see your cheap vs expensive 50mm wheels comparison. I have 42 mm giant SLR-1 wheels and am planning to get a second pair of wheel sets, but I can't decide whether I should get 50mm or 60mm deep wheels.
I ditched my SLR1s 6 months after getting my bike and got the Ascent Polaris. Much more stable to crosswinds despite the deeper profile. Move off acceleration is a tad lower but once you get moving, oh boy, the wheels almost like rotate themselves past 25-28 kph. Can feel the big difference when the momentum kicks in, much less effort in pedaling. Compared to SLR1, the Polaris rolls way much better and I can see it on strava that the segments have better numbers immediately before and after the wheelset change
@@lbkjoseph Thanks for sharing your experience!
Fun video per usual .... but something seems off about the 3mph differential. That seems like an awful lot
You should also do a midsection vs shallow vs deep
May you test the old alloy box section wheels vs modern 50mm carbon wheels too? Would be interesting to see how wheels technology has evolved.
More comparison please 🌹
Best idea Jeff 50mm cheap Vs expensive.. 👊
The margin of error in your test must be huge. Considering how much slower the 35mm wheels where in the 2nd half, they must have been way faster on the first half. And the wight difference shouldn't explain that at all (always look at total system wight in consitent efforts like this). So pretty certain there is something off. I mean there is a reason why scientif test get repated a few times, so you end up with a result (average time of some runs) and their variance. Without that, it is impossibile to conclude if results are significant! And by signifcant I mean if the results are "real" or just "statistical error", not wether a "real" meassured difference is significant for me (as in worth it to spend money on the upgrade)
So for your cheap 50mm vs expensive 50mm test, it would be really great if you could 3 runs with each set up instead of just 1 each. I assume the time spend riding a bit more is not that big compared to all the edditing you have to do anyway, and the additional data would make the test way more valubal (even if the dest distance has to be a bit shorter for that). I really do appreciate your effort and intention and do not want to critizise your work here, it is just that I think many viewers would really like to have that kind of data (and some might base the purchases on that), but are no in the position to be able to testride and compare many different carbon wheelsets. So I really like all of your tech comparrison and testing videos and the intention behind it, I just think with that you could kick up to an even higher level
100% this, it makes no sense at all.
In the comparison of the cheap carbon vs expensive is basically that the expensive carbon wheels you’re paying for the ceramic bearings the rest is pretty much the same. Small details that would be the weight, stiffness, spokes, etc.
thanks, very interesting. ...how about comparing 50mm vs 35mm wheels, on the same loop like this? cheers.
It would be interesting to see you trest this under crit course conditions. That is, something with more turns where you can go accelerate up to speed. One argument for shallow wheels in crits is they change speed faster. So the out and back may not be a great test for crit performance.
Yes pls do the comparison
You did the shallow ones second, how much did the temp go up? I find temp makes a huge difference especially if part of it was headwind.
@jeff great idea. Could you compare elitewheels(china carbon wheels) or winspace hypers with enves or zipps nsws. They cost like 3000 a pop. Crazy prices
Jeff I am a fan.. I would love to see you do few alviso races with 35mm wheelset and let's see if you win and your experience .. Please
hi Jeff. what i would be really interested to see is if you did the same test with the 69 on the front, and the 35 on the rear, and then reverse that, and see what the results are.
Watched one of your recent vids and saw you are riding with Bont vapor s shoes… what do u think of them. I am looking to replace my mtb shoes and the sales person at Palo Alto bikes showed me his Bonts. I’m intrigued. Let me know if you have any thoughts on them thanks
You should try the shallow lighter wheels in crit racing (if you aren't already). Most of the time in a crit you are drafting and the wheel aerodynamics matter less and less. But you're slowing down and speeding up MANY times, and every gram of wheel weight matters. Try the lighter wheels.
If you can try deep section in the front shallow in the back, it'll look horrendous but it should be fast.
Yes we need cheap wheelset review
Just wondering which inner tube you use? Thanks
Yep on the 50 mm rim test.
A fun 'experiment' with a likely result, but too many variables to be definitive:
Rider weight.
Rider position, rider drag [at what point was your jersey unzipped on the shallow rims?]
Aerodynamic Drag formula: Cd 1/2 rho V2. The rho is air density, temperature and pressure.... unlikely to have been consistent.
Wind. Unlikely to have been the same velocity for both tests, and certainly does not reflect the wind velocities experienced in crit type racing.
You could probably mitigate these variables by doing a daily series of back to back tests at the same time of day, alternating the test order and then deriving a probability bell curve.
As I say, fun, and I enjoyed watching it. But hardly scientific. For me, I've got an aero bike and a lightweight climbing bike. Wheel choice is easy.
All those factors matter for sure.
Repeat this same experiment (including switching up which wheelset goes first) at least 10-20 more times and I'll be more convinced lol
Test it, interested to see the difference.
What saddle are you using here? It looks like the kind i'd need.
I’d be interested in the 50mm comparison
Agree. 50MM deap wheelset is the most balace choice.
Would be interested to see the difference in the cheap vs expensive 50mm carbon wheels
nice job! what if you did a roll down test on a hill. No pedaling, just time from point to point. would that give a relevant test?
Been a while since i watched your videos.. I just noticed... When did you change your bike? And why giant?.
Appreciate the info/text. I do think that If you did at least 2 laps with each wheelset, the results would be more meaningful. As it is, there just isn't enough data to be that conclusive i don't think? Still interesting, just have to be a bit careful with results from such a tiny sample.
Hey may i know what chainring size do you run?
For average Joe, with a lot of start-stop traffic and climbs and getting up to speed I find that 45-50 mm are a golden boy. Everything above is if you do crits or long distance racing, maintaining speed on 60-80 is just plainly much easier in effort, but those things are heavy. Especially if you are like me at 180 cm and a thick 190 pounds. Wheels that will suit me at 60-80 mm will be extremely heavy. And light ones usually max out at 180 pounds total system weight.
Very nice bike Stan 🤣🤣
Yes. Do the battle of the 50mm
How cool the wheels look is the #1 factor to consider.