Panel 3: Perceptions of Brexit from other member states
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- čas přidán 6. 04. 2017
- Speakers
- Jonathan Faull, Former Director-General European Commission
-Pierre Vimont, senior fellow at Carnegie Europe
- Prof Brigid Laffan, Director Robert Schuman Centre for Advanced Studies
- Peter Foster, Europe Editor of The Daily Telegraph (chair)
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It is so utterly ridiculous for the British to remove themselves for an organization and pretend that they are going to be continued to be treated as members , or that no one else in a negotiation has a right to protect their own interests. That's not how you became an Empire folks - you did not think of the interests of the other guy first.
well said
The EU has a job to look after 27 countries in the EU not a third country.
No freeloaders, let Britain pay money for every access they want to the single market
It is obvious that to the Brits the most important part of being in the EU is TRADE. The reason is that for most British citizens the EU doesn't mean anything other than that. That is what they voted for in 1975 and didn't want any further integration. For the EU Commission the most important issue is to treat the UK in a way which will demonstrate to the rest of the EU countries that this is not a good idea and to stop them from trying to follow the UK and leave. I can't see that a reasonable deal is in any way possible. I think in the end the UK will just walk out without a deal and trade on WTO terms
Ariadne7710 I think you're right. We've never been into the political side of the EU, we only ever wanted to be friends and trade. That was really the basis of our joining the EU in the first place.
I agree entirely.
For most eu nations the eu is an improvement on what went before; Communism and fascism.
But for those nations that have never suffered such regimes the eu is an enormous step backwards.
ANTON RUDENHAM Absolutely spot on. And it doesn't say very much for the EU if their leaders' main aim in their negotiations with the UK is to stop other countries wanting to leave. If it is such a wonderful institution why should any country want to leave? It doesn't seem to have occurred to any of them that it is a huge condemnation of the whole EU project that their number one priority is to try to stop any of their member countries wanting to leave!!
Oh no Ariadne, it's occurred to them alright, it's just that if they start taking into account the results of their actions or will of the people or anything else 'old fashioned' or 'nationalistic' or 'populist' their project will come to a screeching halt.
They have shown repeatedly their determination to force their vision on Europe, they have ignored freely held referendums and broken their own newly minted laws just to perpetuate their dream.
After all mate, why would they care about public opinion when that opinion can in no way affect them?
They are very far from stupid, they know full well how their actions look to neutral observers, it's just that like any other non democratic system they don't care what people think,only what they do, why should they?
ANTON RUDENHAM Not only a step backward but a very expensive one to boot!!!
The second talker says it all when she reveals an EU saying “If you are not at the table, you are on the menu.” This opitomises everything the EU stands for - self-interest not mutual-interest.
Wow, so apt after yesterday.
“If you are not at the table, you’re on the menu” is an old joke in business circles, which is not specific to the EU!
It comes under various shapes depending on the country: in France, the joke is about the Chinese cook. "On a British merchant ship going from Jeddah to Calcutta,there has been a mechanical failure and the speed is cut in half; after a while, everybody is on edge and the Captain decides that one of the crew members must be sacrificed to the carnal appetites of the rest of the crew. A assembly is convened and a vote is taken: the Chinese cook is unanimously designated. He was busy preparing the meal, and the only one absent from the assembly!"
It's still so entertaining, that laughter in the room about the EU defending it's interests coming as a surprise. So much British exceptionalism, and still rampant among the voices assuming the deal has to be improved, none of them asking what the UK can offer to get better terms (aside the SPS agreement)...
Mrs May saying a No Deal may be the best best deal for the UK is sounding more and more like the best deal
Wow. British people understanding the complexity and the interests of the EU27 - how can this be? Cant you brief your prime minister - she seems pretty lost on the topic.
Soviet Europe
The first talker says that the EU was prepared to make concessions - well this is news.
The idea that the UK govt would throw a hissy fit and walk away from talks with the EU is a very real far and what will happen, if you look at at Tory manifesto. May does not possess the finesse necessary to conduct an adult conversation that has to happen to ensure we don't completely shoot ourselves in the foot. Ireland will be in a perilous position, Scotland will want out and those trade deals May assured us would happen will vanish in a puff of smoke. That's when we'll learn we're just a small country of no significance at all. We're being screwed all right, by the Tories and there are some who just don't see it
Lol@6:32. "If you're not at the table, you're on the menu.." An other family saying comes to mind having watched this discussion: "the people on the bus are not the ones having to fix the road.."
lol Brigid: 'It's not punishment... but it's punishment'. Call a fish a fish. Just do it.
It never ceases to amaze me how politicians and talk so much and say so little.
No real explanation on the Gibraltar question
I think ideal will be if UK becomes something like Canada for the USA. Actually it goes to this direction. So UK will be theoretically independent , but in many areas it will just have to adjust to the EU policies anyway.
This is a bizarre interpretation. The EU is not a country, although it seems to be steaming in that direction. The EU is a lot more fractured. For this comparison to work, Canada would have to have entirely separate relationships with all of the individual states in the US, which obviously it doesn't in any meaningful way. In the context of leaving the EU, Britain negotiates with EU representatives and the the agreement is yayed or nayed by the other European countries but in almost everything else it negotiates with the French, Spanish, Germans, Poles, etc differently because these countries are separate from each other and have different needs.
Not to mention that if you were to compare Britain to the EU you'd find it on much more even terms than Canada and the US. Britain's foreign policy has been devoted to preventing hegemony on the continent for half a millennium, maybe longer, and we've been successful at it so far.
What negociation ? Uk will go to WTO that is way, simple negociation for new trade will start after UK is out :)
Didier Lemoine yes please let us do it this way PLEASE
wto, really? let us see if brexiters complaint about other people interfering in brit affairs is legit...
Pierre Vimont hit the nail on the head, it’s all to do with money; it seems we are a cash cow for the EU.
The EU has shown their hand and the first thing they asked for was £52 billion.The second thing they asked for was to stay in our fishing waters, just money again, also they do not like French and Spanish fisherman rioting.
As Vimont said the EU budget will be affected in a big way with the UK leaving, the rest that the panel said was basically waffle.
If it's obvious a deal can't be negotiated, We should walk from the EU negotiations and use the two years to negotiate the replacement deals to allow for new supply chains to be formed and trade on WTO only without cooperation over Security and Intelligence sharing.
I voted to leave expecting as much.
time is a bitch. you got less than 6 month as i write
The English are bloody fools. No Idiots. Fools are wise, the Brexiteers are ignorant and arrogant. The English posture.
u r at the table or u r in the menu, each country in EU will want a piece of UK !
While Germany eats them up inside 👌
that is one way of looking at it. another is that uk wants 27 pieces of eu? what do you think chequers, english plan, is about?
@@hansouth2355 lol
The second talker also outlines the fundamental principle of the EU which is that this block of 27 countries want to create advantage for themselves at the expense of every other country on the planet - and their protectionist racket is all about self-interest. OK - fine, but with countries like Britain EU self interest will come with a price tag. The choice to punish Britain in trade terms on the grounds that the EU wants to maintain political control - will back fire spectacularly.
35:00 62% of Scots didn't vote against leaving the EU. Turn out was below UK average at 67%. So 1.3 million eligible voters never voted in the referendum. Saying 62% of Scots are against Brexit is somewhat disingenuous. Figures are similar in Northern Ireland.
If the EU had given David Cameron some of what he wanted in his renegotiation last year, we might have voted to remain in the EU. But we could see through the EU offer and they were really offering nothing. The Brits have only ever had a lukewarm relationship with the EU institutions, and only for free trade, not for anything else which we Brits never voted for.
Conversely, the little harlot has just tried to escape from her pimp, who now wonders where his income is going to come from. Also the fiscal police are now going into his bank accounts and bankrupting Italian banks. The so called project is doomed and we do not want to be handcuffed to a corpse.
IF WE WERE IMMIGRANTS THEN THEY WOULD HAVE EVEN GIVEN US THEIR WOMEN PMSK
who is Brigid Laffin.....sounds southern Irish
Ireland won Brexit, Irish woman really knew her stuff.
LOOK AT THE AMOUNT WE PUT IN COMPARED TO THE OTHERS THEIR ECONOMIES PROPPED UP BY BRITISH BUSINESSES
delusional.
Per capita you do not put in the most.
Foster, to his credit perhaps, is taking a devil's advocate position. but really this sense of self-entitlement on the part of the Brits is what blinds them to reality... Laffan is uncompromising in keeping the eye on the ball rather than being distracted by the emotivity of Foster...
Seems to me that the real issue is the number of "countries" in the EU that are net recipients. Clearly, it is in their interests to get as much from the UK as possible, irrespective of any rights or wrongs in the various arguments.
Its not that unusual. The UK presented the Irish Free State with a bill when it left the UK in 1922.
Taint ABird
Ahhhh , didn’t know this , did they get any money?
2:50 3:30
Notice the language at 44:40 - you'd expect her to say "Just as the EU does not seek to punish the UK, the UK should not seek to punish the EU."
Instead, she says "Just as the EU does not seek to punish the UK, the UK should not overestimate its bargaining power."
So, roughly translated, that means - The EU could punish the UK, but chooses not to, and the UK COULD NOT PUNISH US if they tried. Nice attempt at a power play, right there.
You're wrong. We're the biggest export market of the EU in the world. I'd say we have a little leverage, they won't admit to.
Oh good God where did you get that "fact" Britain is not the largest export market for the EU 27. Dear lord protect us from alternative facts. Just not true.... nice to see you had all the facts when you voted your country out of its biggest trading block.
T2000Terminator : : “We’re their [the EU’s] largest export market”
“Every single country in Europe apart from Ireland, Cyprus, Greece and Malta and Luxembourg have a surplus with us”.
John Moynihan, Vote Leave, 26 January 2016
fullfact.org/europe/where-does-eu-export/
Take your head out of the BBC's arse and stop lying you little twerp.
Now Mr British Freedom... Being insulted never puts me off trying to educate people so lets clarify something.... "we're their largest export market" is gibberish and has absolutely nothing to do with countries having a surplus with you... To say that " We're the EU's largest export market" implies that you believe, that you in Britain, consume the largest share of the gross output of europe clearly..... clearly ......rubbish! you can't possibly think that 60 million people buy more from the 27 countries of europe than the rest of the planet. You have indeed a surplus with countries like Germany yes they sell you about $93 bn per year . ... a bit more than they sell to china and significantly Less than they sell to france $101bn..... or America $122bn.... and you sell them $40 bn... Making grand statement like "we're the largest export market is simply wrong and the lying little twerps who peddle that kind of nonsense have just screwed over one very fine country.
I'm looking forward to your supported reply..... not just a cut and paste of a quotation from someone else... do as I have done get off YOUR hole and do some actual fact checking from multiple sources and get yourself educated but its a bit too late now laddie.
T2000Terminator : The Europeans sell more to us than they do the USA, such is the importance of our market to them. The question for them, is what can they get out of us without harming that trade. Because, a drop in exports to us, would cause even more mass unemployment in Europe and a bigger rise in populist politics.
We buy more from them than we buy from them, there is nothing that the EU sells that we can't buy elsewhere.
EU is a peace project
if you can't do your job service to your people just resign....and let those who knows the job...people are suffered
UNITED KINGDOM......unite your people for better future....
48 percent voted to remain
The UK joined the EU to trade together and cooperate together etc. That position never changed for the UK, but it did change for the EU. So the UK are not asking for anything more than what they have ever asked for. The EU are the ones that have moved the goalposts beyond what is acceptable. e.g. the EU have changed the free movement of labour into the free movement of people. That's a catastrophe and wholly unacceptable. The EU have changed the idea of helping to structure fair legal frameworks, to overruling a nations legal system. The EU has gone from cooperating and sharing security information with countries, to telling them hey cant control their own borders. Its time for ALL countries to re-set the EU vision, to once again focus on being nations who cooperate, trade, support and encourage each other, and throw away the idea of a super state dictatorship.
Mange 2 "A closer and closer union" is says in the first paragraph on the first page of the Treaty of Rome 1956. So the EU and its predecessors was always a political organisation of sovereign states which want to have a closer and closer union. Can it be that the government never read it? I mean they signed at least at six different occasions documents which said "a close and close union". Is this some kind of well kept secret from the voters?
ironically the French speaker Pierre was the only one who I did not want to metaphorically strangle.
It's only ironic if you have some kind of natural aversion to French people.
timcritt I assume to have sympathy with British and Irish (for the sake of this point) rather than the (untypical) French speaker. I hated the attitude of the two English speaking europhiles.
who cares what others think
Half of British exports, for example?
We are an Island and always will be Independently minded, Its not our fault it's just to much hassle to fly into Europe for the normal person in the UK then again it's probably not in our budget unless it's a holiday as we are not made of money. So why would we want to be governed by anyone outside our country beats me.
You will not have to worry about flying anywhere in EU once the UK leaves the Open Skies Agreement. You won't be able to afford it either, because of the weakness of the £ to the €.
Beats me you assuming that the rest of the Europeans love to be ruled by Bruxelles . What makes you. think the rest love Bruxelles? There ‘s a very very thin line between an island and an odd ball island , at some point one has to decide what it wants it to be, don’t you think ?
This is what is wrong with the EU the Irish woman is totally EU if the UK without a deal Ireland will be screwed so they will do a deal with the UK because they can't afford not too. So will others because they need that UK trade to keep there economies going.
Peter Doodson - They can afford it as they are 27 friends and have the backing of 450 million and the largest single market in human history. The UK can''t afford it.
You do know that northern ireland is in the uk! I mean im looking that know one year later to see what other people thought and i must see that some people in the uk dont care about northern ireland. One way or another i fear for the people in the uk that this united kingdom will break off like it should be at least with northern ireland because of the good friday agreement and the uk citizens that live there might have to accept a whole ireland or move to there beloved england or start fighting again and im sure all citizens in the uk love to wake up in the morning and see in the news a new bombing in london. Just my thoughts on the matter.
Pommesfive
The uk would love to get rid of Northern Ireland . It costs the uk over 5 billion a year . Just now there ‘s no majority in N. i . for a United ireland . So I don’t think there will be Utd Ireland for a while just yet. So who then who ‘s pushing the Utd Ireland agenda? You’re not a loyalist are you 😁😹😁
No im from the continent and im just worried because i have friends in london and scotland. I hope that a deal will be possible. Im too young to have witnessed the hate and bombings that ocurred in NI and England but i can only imagine what could happen if no deal would be struck. I mean both sides said that there are people who are ready to start the conflict again and that in my eyes seems i dont know crazy horrifying what other words can be used....
EU is our biggest trade partner due to the EU's anti free trade policies. If we can't trade with the EU we can change our trade strategies to trade more with other nations. by the way try reading though this www.worldstopexports.com/united-kingdoms-top-import-partners/
our none EU trade relations yeild surpluses for the UK, our EU trade yield loses. So I hardly think it will harm us to strengthen profitable trade relations at the cost of expensive ones.
The EU is scared we will succeed out side its grasp, giving hope to other people that leaving is the best
There are certain assumptions that all the panel agree on that I don't.
I DON'T WANT A TRADE DEAL.
I WANT FULL SOVEREIGNTY.
NO BREXIT BILL, there is no legality for it.
I WANT FULL CONTROL OF OUR BORDERS.
I WANT NO MORE PAYMENTS TO THE EU.
I WANT FULL CONTROL OF OUR FISHING WATERS.
I WANT NOTHING FROM EUROPE.... Get it >> NOTHING..
And whilst we're at it, CEMENT UP THE CHANNEL TUNNEL.
I also want to ban foreign Governments from operating companies in the UK. As we know with our energy Countries, (mostly owned by foreign governments) they just rip us off to subsidise their own people. BAN THEM, RE-NATIONAISE THEM, I don't care, but I want them out.
BritishFreedom then how would your companies thrive? You don't understand economics and trade. sit down and listen maybe you actually learn something
Common Sense : Only 13% of our Companies trade with the EU. And on that, if we get a proper Brexit, they would have to pay on average 5% on tariifs. This would be a net gain from incoming tariffs from the EU and offset by reaching out in to wider markets across the globe where we could trade tariff free as we'd be outside the EUs external tariff.
We would get our fisheries industries back, we'd get an extra £10 billion to spend on supporting industries to transition to the new reality and we'd have faster growing economies to trade in to.
How would our companies thrive?? I've just explained it.... The question is.. How would EU companies thrive.?
BritishFreedom vice versa, but how do you see the timeline of achieving all of the above? And here's the thing tariffs is the least of the problems regarding trade. We talk about financial services between Countries, the flow of manufacturing lines. Same standards same rights. I think it's shitty that UK voted to leave. But I'll do understand why it happened. But the complexity of free trade deals and the EU single market. And so forth. But I want to apologize for my tone before, I thought you were just a troll, 😃 it's actually quite interesting when a person actually has a bit of rational thinking👍
British Freedom - If you want full sovereignty then leave NATO, the UN and WTO. Unless you do that your aim can not be reached.
Little harlot wants to leave father's house, crying papa don't please, please no punishment. You leaving, you want to spread indepently fine go, just pays us our shared of the gains from our business. Go find your husband or husbands but just be a grown up stop playing the little victim, stop embarrassing yourself,...
Ireland are in the worst position because the want to ride two horses - time to make a choice.
The island of Great Britain is now in a spiral of severe decline. Already there are some ex -Soviet states that have a higher standard of living than Britain, almost all EU countries have a superior health service, better education outcomes, faster, more reliable and cheaper trains and better infastructure for industry to thrive on, staff recruiting from 30 countries without paperwork, soon, or maybe very soon, all of Europe will have such a vastly greater standard of living than Britain, visibly so and then it will be impossible to fool the British population, however under educated they may be, and they are. At that stage, and with blue passports too expensive for the working class, visas hard to get, even more homelesness, despair and exclusion from normal life, that's when the 'small boats' will begin in the direction of France. Copy this and wait a short while, then congratulate me on my prediction coming true, in spades, by the way.