Big Mistake with Sourdough Brioche Bulk Ferment | Proof Bread
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- čas přidán 18. 01. 2022
- Learn from our error and recovery with a recent batch of sourdough brioche.
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Proof Bakery
125 W Main Street
Mesa AZ 85201
» Proof Bread is a modern throwback to a way of life that values small-scale craftsmanship, local community, and creativity. We are a small group of passionate bakers working in our garage (thanks to cottage laws) which has been converted into a micro-bakery. Everything we bake is made by hand, from the best local ingredients, with no short cuts.
#sourdough #bread #bakery - Jak na to + styl
This past Christmas I spent weeks getting the ingredients ready for my homemade Stollen. I even took the time to candy the fruit myself, and it was well worth the time and money invested.
I LOVE STOLLEN😋😋😋!!!!!
I have so much respect for you and all you embody. I can't decide if I should continue to try to build my own bakery or ask if I could learn from and work for you. :) Thank you for all your honesty and hard work. :)
I really love watching you make bread, and I’m learning a LOT from you, too! I am getting over Covid after a fight for my every breath and I credit you with keeping me calm enough by your smooth voice and the fascinating content you so generously share that I was able to relax enough to allow my lungs to expand without fighting my fear and panic that came with my every breath, and I thank you even though you were not aware of my existence. You know, we never know how we can sometimes be a lifeline to a stranger by just doing what we do best just by being ourselves. God bless you real good.
By the way, you look identical to a late actor that played in a TV comedy western back when I was a teenager in the early 1970’s called, Alias Smith and Jones. The actor was named Pete Duel, if memory serves. I believe he tragically passed away in his early 30’s. I had forgotten about that old western and that actor until I saw you while I was ill with Covid. Strange stuff happens during Covid hallucinations😂!
Good morning Jon, thanks for the video. Have a wonderful day.
Man! When you mentined that brioche was and is an expresive bread ( 6:30 ) I instantly thought of the book of Peter Reinhart and wanted to comment about the 3 recipes and then you say exactly that in 27:30 .Nice!!!
The book IS a baker's classic
Nice save. We've all had situations where a unconventional method had to be used. However and thankfully, I've never had to deal with the mass of dough that you did. ☺ Thanks for sharing
Big time woops! Love your thought process and the results! Have an awesome day! Will continue to follow....
I have been binge watching you (and your wife) and enjoy your attention to detail and your growth as an artisans. The level of passion (sweat equity) (no pun) is baked into every incarnation of sourdough. You have sacrificed and that's what business is in a self made product that is now a movement. You have gone from a garage with no drainage to a retail space with shifts of employee's. I know you are angry with the city and neighbors who nixed your transformation of a home to a commercial bakery with bedrooms. I think someday you will thank those forces who drove you from the Garage to your main street presence as without them you would have built a proofing room in a Costco shed and never taken this step. As you grow, you will forget the digging for electric power, the unimaginable garage heat and deliveries from a Prius. When demand for your amazing concoctions see's 15 farmers markets and 4 retail locations your tune will change. I wonder when youtube posts are a distant memory if you will think different why blacksmilth shops and tire shredding don't work in a residential neighborhood.
Sounds like you need to add a cooling loop and solid state cooling system liquid cooler using propylene glycol and water ( food safe). We use them at work for making disc drives. Holds temp very well.
Respect to your openness on line, community building in town and just over all awesomeness. Be Well
Love the vids, I was born in Mesa and a bucket list item is to come back and check out the town and this bakery.
Nice shout out to Peter Reinhart today, Bread Baker’s Apprentice is the only “baking” book I read every page of from start to finish.
I’d like to give a shout out to the guy or gal that has been filming you all these years unsung. Wouldn’t it be cool one day to grab the camera out of his or her hand and introduce him/ her to all your bread fans😸
Always a wonderful educational experience watching these videos. Thank you Jon. Best wishes for a happy, healthy and prosperous New Year.
I learn a lot from problems, and makes my work interesting , when you solve it !! Even some Staff don/t understand , they will find out , when they are on their own !!! Good job, how you explain the heat in the dough in the mixer !!! total cool and right !! Kind regards !!!
You must have one of the most happiest healthiest sour dough starters. I couldn't help but laugh because I had a few made doughs over expand and I had to try to compensate but I would get frustrated and add way too much flour to it. I never thought about putting it into the fridge. Well done, Sir.
Hitting DDT's in the 80's for brioche is straight lunacy to begin with. You like living on the edge.🤣
Brioche is always a pain. On a experimental dough I always build up on volume until it is right I believe the weight and its denseness caused it to collapse and became hot and separated the butter after cooling reforming does sometime work. I will look thru my recipes and try to find a large brioche recipe-get some sleep
Thanks for giving an inside view and workings of an artisan bread bakery in your videos.
You rule man, I hope to come see you soon in AZ
your the best bread-meditator or bread monk ;) you always stay relaxed ....thank you so much
Such a good teacher.
Thank you for posting this instructional video. The information describes dough I mix and troubleshoots problems I have encountered. Butter @ 60 degrees Fahrenheit is valuable information to know.
I did make traditional Italian sourdough pannettone this Christmas, as I've been doing every year for quite some time. It's an insane amount of work since I don't own a stand mixer large enough to make a reasonable-sized batch and thus I do everything by hand. Every year I think to myself, "well, this is the last time, I'm not putting this much work on a glorified roll ever again" but then you cut into one a couple of days after they've been baked (they take time to develop their full flavour and aroma), taste it and remember why you do all that work time and time again. They're awesome.
Important note: I live in the Southern hemisphere. It's summer in here during Christmas.
I can relate to your story, I made Stollen this past Christmas and I even took the time to candy the fruit myself. It was so much work but my family really enjoyed it. I know that Stollen is supposed to be stored away for at least two weeks in order to let the flavors develop but it always gets eaten within a couple of days. Do you have a problem with your Pannettone getting to dry?
@@Sharon-Me Oh, it's been so long since I had some Stollen! I tried it years ago in a small town founded by German migrants here in Argentina and it was amazing. I should google to see if I can find a bakery that makes it closer to my home.
Answering your question, in my opinion the secrets to a moist panettone are keeping the fat content relatively high (it's a rich bread, you gotta deal with that fact) and baking it to the proper internal temperature. The downside of that is that the crumb is very delicate when it comes out of the oven, so you have to let it cool hanging upside down (I have a homemade rig for that, built with wood and skewers). Panettoni also take way less than 2 weeks to develop their flavour and aroma, wait 3-5 days after baking and you're good to go.
Of course, you should take all these comments with a grain of salt because I'm an amateur baker, not a professional like Jon
Great video again. Would have loved to see the final product. Hope it turn out well.
I've been making sweet loaf using sourdough starter lately including brioche style that has just milk & egg as liquid. I adapt the way I used to make sweet buns/loaf with regular yeast, which is after it's mixed until window pane, I rest the dough for 30 minutes, then proceed with pre shape or final shape then let it proof until poke test then bake. so far it hasn't failed me, just sharing
Jimmy, can you share your recipe with us?
Can you post your recipe?
I learn so much here. Thank you
I make brioche once a year for the holidays. I use a family recipe which contains more eggs and butter than you want to let people know. It is not sourdough-based but it is delicious!
It's alive!! And Never predictable 🤪🐄
😂 dough overboard!!😂
Glad you tinkered with it and brought it back to useable 😁💝
Good luck on the new bakery.. Wish you the best..
Can you flour the trays before you put the dough on them so they don’t stick so much. Or maybe spray with non stick spray?
I'm getting in the car and driving down from Chicago area just to eat your fare!
As Launchpad McQuack says: "Any crash you can walk away from..."
Thanx a lot!
Call them “Burger Buns”, problem solved . Good video.
Generous & humble of you to share your process and how you work through challenges. Great video as always!
@ min 6:17. Of course the ingredients in a brioche are not cheap. But I think that what it made the brioche so exclusive is the huge amount of kneading work. A few days ago I baked 1 kg of brioche dough. My Ankarsrum kneading machine had to knead more than 30 min to obtain a smooth dough. That means that when you knead by hand you need at least 2:30 hour, but more likely much longer. You had to be very wealthy to afford to pay such an amount of work for a cake.
Astaj deserves a bonus for all that work in the freezer
God work!!!
Fun fact, the "roll-divider" at 13:40 is name Erica in Sweden in basically every bakery, why? No one knows
The surface area to volume ratio doesn't matter so much in a small batch of wine or mead, but as you said with your compost example, when you upsize from a 5 gallon pail to a 55 gallon drum or one of the much larger fermentation tanks, IT MATTERS! A lot of the meadmakers I talk to who have gone professional have had to install cooling equipment for just this reason, you'll never notice the heat the yeast generate during fermentation in a small batch because it dissipates quickly enough, but the bigger the batch, the more you notice it! Perhaps a mid-ferment stir might help a little when you've got the centre fermenting much warmer (and hence more quickly) than the outsides?
What a great tool that roll divider is! I'm wondering if adding a little bit of flour UNDER the dough slab, before placing in the roll divider, would eliminate the final hand-rolling?
It would.
Maybe try making a coil with some SS or even soft brass tubing that you can immerse into the bowl, and then a small water pump, like for a fountain or something, and pump water from a bucket through the coil.
Use cold water, or put ice and water into the bucket to chill it, or hot water when you want to raise the core temperature.
If you want to raise the temperature above room temperature, put an immersion heater into a metal bucket set to hold the water at the desired temperature.
If you are cooling it, get one of the programmable temperature controls with a remote probe (quite affordable on Amazon) and put the probe to measure the water temperature coming out of the coil (have a measuring cup hanging on the inside edge of the bucket, with the return water flowing into it, and then spilling over into the bucket, and put the temp probe into the cup.)
As long as the dough is hot, the water coming out will be warmed, but as the dough drops, the outlet temperature will drop, and when it gets low enough it shuts the pump off.
Or just keep a probe into the dough itself with an alarm when it reaches the desired temperature.
If you were frequently needing to cool dough, you could run the water flow into a loop in the walk in fridge, but that's probably overkill.
But having a coil of tubing and a cheap pump on hand might be handy to occasionally save the day, and then just need to add a bucket and temperatured water!
I worked really hard to get a brioche bun... I thought it was just me but it took me a dozen times to get an acceptable burger bun... Now if I could only repeat it... :) Is curious why your center rolls are working and those towards the outside are failing...
I love sourdough bread for sourdough... however when I have brioche I want it to taste like butter, not sourdough. At least the sour dough loaves are really good that you make.
I would recommend making chocolate babka with that dough! Or try making bread puddling!
Who ia filming by the way?
What is your formula for converting a baker’s yeast recipe into a sourdough one?
It depends a lot on what type of dough you're making (bread? enriched with milk, eggs, butter?), what kind of sourdough starter you have (is it ripe enough? what is the hydration, what type of flour you use, do you feed it with sugar too for sweet pastries?), what is the temperature, how long do you need to proof, how sour you want the final product etc.
But generally, you need to set the percentage of sourdough starter you're using in the dough, like 20% for total flour. Then just make sure to subtract the levain's flour and water content.
So for instance, you're making a 70% hydration bread and have 1,000 g of flour. 70% hydration means 700 g water, 20% levain is 200 g. Your levain is 100% hydration, meaning 100 g of it is water, 100 g is flour.
This means that your recipe is 200 g levain + [700 - 100] = 600 g water + [1,000 - 100] = 900 g flour. Salt is of course calculated on the total flour content, so 2% salt is 20 g.
As you can see you don't need any difficult conversion format. It just doesn't exist, dry and fresh and instant yeast varies too much from country to country, and region to region, so there is no one recipe for that. All you basically need to know is what your dough does under the circumstances you have in your room, and to do a little bit of calculation!
@@BarneyHorvath thanks for the answer! That’s in the ballpark of what I usually do, I of course understand that a sourdough is a living thing and that you have to learn to adapt when baking with one. But it is interesting to hear what approach others are using 🤗
since making a sourdough culture I can't bother with yeasted anything, not even poolish or biga, sourdough is just so flavorful
Sourdough🥰🥰
Bonus of Sourdough , you are not under pressure with the timing !!! Yeast different ,it pushes you ,in summer even more ! ??
Can I order your Bread by mailing????
👍👍👍👍👍
That was a “smart roller”!
"Roll out", I see what you did there
Don't drop the palette. You are squeezing the brioche. Just turn it up side down on air ...
That a larger dough gets warmer than a small has to do with the bulk to surface ratio.
don't have 41 minutes to hear the whole story