@@jamesbeddus I prefer the other one, it sounds almost Proustian. Though 'sliver' needs only an extra 'a', leaving us with a spare 'l'. If we could come up with another 'a' and an extra 'e' we could use them with it to have Savile "venerealated' in death. It still leaves 'nation' lacking but it's a fairly robust word and can handle itself.
I absolutely fucking love both Lee and Herring for their stance on this. It’s something that affects a family member personally and I appreciate every word of what they are saying.
@An Orange A Day Keeps The Scurvy Away if you really are that absurdly far beneath understanding what this is even about, there's no real way to get you to the surface. Do you... ACTUALLY think that the only thing people are offended by in all of this is whether or not something counts as a swear word? Is that REALLY your entire picture of this issue? Come on, have a think.
Because I suspect that you're being pretentious and playing dumb, that's why. I think you very likely understand a lot better why that comparison makes no fucking sense, and are just pretending to be clueless in order to score some argument points. Have I hit the nail on the head or do you seriously, really actually think that question is one worthy of a response?
@An Orange A Day Keeps The Scurvy Awaywhat insult did I throw, exactly? That's a pretty clear way to dismiss your comparison. It was a comparison between an ordinary swear word and an actual insult word. Two quite seperate things.
@An Orange A Day Keeps The Scurvy Away I'm sorry I assumed that way then, it did seem a lot like the kind of thing someone might say just in order to stir up trouble. Unfortunately the general atmosphere of youtube comment sections has rendered me suspicious like that.
Once again the majority of the internet community have nothing intelligent or profound to say. Herring has explained each point thoroughly, highlighting various misconceptions and misunderstandings about what he said, and the broken records come out to just attack him or compare him to Gervais without contending with any of the issues he has raised. If there is a hell I think we must be living in it right now.
Who's the other guy speaking in this? He makes such a great point about people who will leap to their favourite celebrity's defense regardless of what they've said or done, especially when he references Morrissey fans.
I think he was ruined by fame. If you see interviews he did when The Office first got popular, you can see him thinking for a second before coming out with a really subtle, perfectly phrased joke. Now he seems to just vomit the most obvious, cheap jokes straight out of his face. I think he's been convinced he's a comedy genius and has lowered his standards.
Afterlife, Extras, just brilliant, his stand ups, the Emmys, The Globes, are great, surely he’s not failing too much? He has worldwide admiration, hasn’t he?
I love The Smiths and I love a lot of the lyrics he's wrote, but you can not deny the outlandish and dickish crap that he has come out with over the years. Using the Oslo massacre in 2011 to preach vegetarianism (I'm a vegetarian myself and thought it was beyond ridiculous of him to say what he said at such a time) and referring to the Chinese as a "subspecies" are two examples that spring to mind.
At the end of the day Ricky Gervais has spoke out against disabilism in his comedy. Put simply he should have known better than to use a word like "mong". As someone with a sevely autisitc sister myself im with Richard Herring all the way on this one. People are failing to realise that words like that are offensive to disabled people.
It was Gervais' reaction to the criticism that was particularly bothersome. I'd have believed that he didn't know what the word meant, I didn't either. But when you find out, just say sorry and stop using it.
You'd think he'd have looked the word up on the Internet or a dictionary or something, before picking it as his hill to die on. In Ricky's earlier work though, he did some bits and pieces on Channel 4, he tried to make an image for himself as one of those refreshingly un-PC comics of the sort the Daily Mail love so much, "You CAN'T just speak your mind like that, brave rebel Ricky Gervais" "I think you'll find I just did!" It was a bit desparate. Saying any old shite to get a bit of cheap controversy to maybe get a bit of publicity. And then he wrote that thing the Americans love, and got addicted to having his arse kissed. He's not fussy about who kisses it, poor fella. He must have cold sores, warts, and all sorts round his ringpiece.
Everybody mad! Just be nice to people, everyone. Including the disabled. That is all you need to worry about. Mong is not OK to say as long as people find it offensive. It will be OK to say when no significant number are offended. Gervais does not decide what is offensive.
The word 'mong' is certainly not one that I have ever come across at school, the only people i know who use it are people like Ricky Gervais who are using it as an insult. The reason so many complained is because in many people's mind it still is an insult towards the disabled. Words can still cause harm. The whole 'changed meaning' argument doesn't work unless it has been accepted to have a different meaning univerally. To be honest, the word is old-fashioned and dated.
I never denied the transition. The difference is, the word "idiot" actually has shifted meaning where it means something at least different enough for it to not be specifically offensive. "Mong" however still has heavy connotations of downs syndrome. So you're saying doctors aren't allowed to call patients "obese" (as i also said) but you think they're allowed to diagnose someone officially as an "idiot savant"? That is NOT a term used in modern times.
I think you should check your sources. They still hold the world record for the most downloaded podcast of all time. When they started, podcasting was a very new thing, the success of their show really showed people what you can do with it and how many people you can reach. As for them starting anything of much note: The Office anyone? Even if you dislike Gervais you have to admit that The Office changed a lot of things in terms of sitcom style and writing.
I was just here to hear him slag off Ricky Gervais (i'am a fan of his work, even though I find it funny when people slag him off). I had no fucking idea they were going for Morrissey...what the fuck has Morrissey done?! Leave Morrissey alone you bastards.
FYI Idiot is an offensive word. It means mong. 'In 19th and early 20th century medicine and psychology, an "idiot" was a person with a very severe intellectual disability. In the early 1900s, Dr. Henry H. Goddard proposed a classification system for intellectual disability based on the Binet-Simon concept of mental age. Individuals with the lowest mental age level (less than three years) were identified as idiots; imbeciles had a mental age of three to seven years, and morons had a mental age of seven to ten years' Funny old world, eh?
I love Richard Herring, and I love Ricky Gervais. Richard Herring is very underrated as a comedian, but doesn't make him lesser in any way. Ricky has some fantastic stuff, but has gone off the boil with a lot of his stuff. It's a shame that he can't see the error of his ways. I hope that he gets back to his prime, because the early stand up shows - Politics and Animals were brilliant, as well as other things he's done.
Not that I hate gervais, i like a lot of his standup, extras was awesome - but it shit me straight away when i saw and heard about this (admittedly ages ago) cos it was uncomfortably clear what he was doing straight away. and that people were servicing his need by taking sides in the argument.
The thing Richard said about the disabled comic not getting any tweets calling her a mong says it all really, the people who think Ricky Gervais is "redefining" it wouldnt ever say it around a disabled person because they know exactly what it means. A bunch of hypocrites defending something that wasnt even funny on the crudest level.
Yes. All of that is definitely true. The media, as always, have a lot to answer for. I was arguing against the idea of the word being OK to use, but in this instance I don't think Gervais whipped up the majority of the controversy.
I love Ricky Gervais' work. I find his stuff really funny. But he was wrong on this and should have realised and apologised, instead he reacted like a hurt child and tried to justify his actions.
Gervais, I realised during Derek, was his attempt at career atonement. Not actual atonement, but a blind in the form of Derek, who, in his first incarnation years ago, was not the sympathetic type of the series, but a figure of fun. That Gervais would apply such a heavy revisionism to Derek sounds almost ludicrous until you listen to him in interview in the last couple of years and realise how he has applied revisionism to his career, never so much as hinting that The Office and Extras were collaborative efforts.
It's astonishing how such a successful bloke can have such a massively fragile ego. If you say mean things about him, he misquotes you on Twitter and you have to deal with his simple-minded fans sending you death threats. Utterly, utterly a twat, and The Office was shit. "HAR HAR THE MAN MISUNDERSTANDS UNSPOKEN SOCIAL RULES AND CONVENTIONS! HUR!"
@padraic2001eire He did a bit about a play he wrote when he was 15 for GCSE's and I've never seen anything like it on stage, the most naturally funny stand up i've seen. Very, very clever and really funny, tell me if he does it, also one of the stories he did at the end was genius. Pure genius.
its because I dont think it means a disabled person, when ricky gervais says "mongs meaning has changed", there is a group over 30 who seem to disagree, and a lot of people under 30 who believe that it has
Indeed. Also, isn't it funny how the tabloid's fury at Gervais using the word seemed to coincide with the anti-Gervais phase where he was still getting stick from hosting the Golden Globes despite the fact Gervais has used the word in question repeatedly on his Podcasts, Stand-up shows and his Blog for years before?
I like both comedians. It's good he didn't actually slag off Gervais ... it's a bad sign for a comedian to start slagging off other comedians (in a non-joke way of course). Usually comedians are light-hearted enough not to use their fame to take pot-shots at people they don't like.
The Adam Carolla Show took that Guinness World Record away from them in the middle of last year. Even before that being the first podcast supported by a mainstream media group just means they had contacts and big enough names to push it. As for The Office changing a lot of things in terms of sitcom style and writing, all I saw was failing to meet the standards good sitcoms like Father Ted, Black Books, Spaced. Operation Good Guys and others did the mockumentary thing years before The Office.
It may not have followed the same arc exactly but that is because 'idiot' predates medical classification of mental illness, not only that but the word still refers disapragingly to those of sub-par unteligence or retardation just without the badge of medical legitimacy. As soon as doctors began classification of mental illness 'idiot' became a part of their lexicon, simply because it was not specifically orignaly terminological doesn't mean it's long association with mental illness dissapears.
totally agree. I really enjoy the Gervais podcasts because he makes a good straight man to Pilkington's weird man. But I never found Extras or Life's Too Short (The Office I kinda liked, although there was only one joke - David Brent is annoying). There's nothing wrong with being un-PC in comedy but if you're going to be un-PC you've got to do it with some kind of wit to make some kind of point. Unlike, say Frankie Boyle and latterly (but not formerly) Gervais who use just to be mean-spirited
However what we can agree on also is that - in context - any word can be used e.g to satirise prejudice, quoting someone, etc However Gervais' use of the word wasn't for satirical purposes. It was also ironic how TV show 'The Wright Stuff' - a show that was used in a montage of sensationalism in the Extras episode involving a child with Downs Syndrome in order to satirise how a story is taken out of context or exaggerated - reported on 'mong-gate' using the hyperbolic accusations by the tabloids
@padraic2001eire Hey glad you enjoyed it! Yep the gcse part was unusual but the perfect showcase for his talent. So do you think he beats Herring/Gervais? I certainly do. It was both clever and incredibly funny. Herring is very intelligent but suffers from not being naturally funny and Gervais writes with Merchant so instantly comparisons are made and I feel (stand up) Merchant has the beating of him. The self depreciating humour he has down to a tee.
I don’t support Ricky Gervais at all, he’s a biggot and I’m not disagreeing with the point Richard Herring is trying to get across, however this video has made me decide that I don’t support Richard Herring anymore, because he’s literally said the n word in this video, if he publicly apologises then I’ll support him again, but there was no need for him to say all of these slurs
If you're not joking, then you're seriously missing what the real problem is. I'm no fan of this bloke, but you're deeply upset that in this vid from 2011, he's being a 2011 Progressive and not a 2021 Progressive. Don't be surprised when everyone you love gets cancled and every film, TV show and album you treasure gets taken away.
@Real Aiglon Subtext is probably a bit more important if naughty words distract you easily. A few years ago Benedict Cumberbatch got dragged for bemoaning the plight of 'coloured' actors in Britain. Because he said 'coloured'. But he was bemoaning their plight. But he said 'coloured'. But he was bemoaning their plight. But he said 'coloured'. But he was bemoaning their plight. But he said 'coloured'. But he was bemoaning their plight. But he said 'coloured'. But he was bemoaning their plight. But he said 'coloured'. See? Progressive, but not enough not to trigger. Anyway. You're probably right about me, as I have no idea what point you're trying to make. See ya!
Ricky Gervais is the Noel Gallagher of comedy. He is well past his best, arrogant, bereft of any new ideas and has a fan base of thick fans. Invention of Lying: bad reviews. Science stand up: awful reviews. Life's Too Short: Dreadful reviews. Derek: mixed reviews. I say his time is up, don't you?
And Richard Herring Agrees with that point entirely. Richard Herring was just politely saying what Gervais was doing was a) A bit unfunny and b) Poking fun at the wrong targets in Herring's opinion. He was providing a critique on Gervais, as free speech allows you.
It’s not a free speech question .. no one is denying either’s legal right to say the word .. they’re arguing over whether it is morally right to say it.. if it was just a legal right issue one could just say the people responding to herring are also exercising their own right to speak leading to circularity … it’s a totally different argument that you have failed to understand by appealing to people’s free speech rights ..
What's the name of the interviewer? He has a very characteristic voice and I can picture him in my head, but can't think for the life of me what he's called.
just middle clash sheltered people that find this offensive, go to your local school and listen to the language being used by the kids, "mong" is the least offensive -
I had a lovely aunt with downs syndrome, I hate it when I see people using mong, and I've been a horrible bastard at times, but I've never been offensive to disabled people.😥
But if the other 50% agree that I got punched then my view that I did get punched is not outdated as enough people share it, so that it remains relevant. I see your point, language progresses and evolves as years go by. Maybe in 10 years time the word 'mong' will no longer mean someone with 'Down Syndrome', but presently it does and in my experience as a working class 19 year old male thew majority of people I have come across realise that.
If you yourself don't like Gervais' work that is fine and I respect that. However, judging the quality of someone's work based purely on the opinions of reviewers is stupid. Since when do they have the final word on what is "good" and what isn't?
Gervais shouldn't have used such a contentious word for something as unimportant as a way of saying 'moronic friend'. Having said that, the sensationalism surrounding 'mong-gate' more and more resembled the sequence in 'Extras' where the actual controversy is exaggerated repeatedly. Gervais posting photos of himself pulling a stupid face were completely unrelated to the media's interpretation of Gervais's use of the word 'mong'. Shame on the media and Herring and Lee for linking to two together.
Words like cretin and idiot are used quite regularly and casually as insults these days even though they were used as terms for describing intellectual disability. It seems the offensive nature of a word is defined by it's currency, something which happens more with words relating to people with disabilities than ethnic groups as these people tend to be in less of a position to defend themselves and so long as a word has a specific hurtful meaning it shouldn't be used in a callous manner.
Not, it isn't brave, but it's certainly funny. Humour is subjective, don't forget! I agree that it was a bit out-of-line mocking Susan Boyle's gnarled appearance, but there is nothing wrong with the word 'mong', when used in the right way. That's the beauty of language. No word is intrinsically bad, so to speak.
There word is still in usage in the medical profession: 'Idiot Savant' fro example. The point I'm trying to make is that the transition of 'idiot' from terminology to vernacular is exactly the same 'mong' just not as recent. What have doctors (quite rightly) being discouraged from calling people fat got to do with it? Are you trying to suggest that medical professionals should take the piss out of their patients' ailments? "Alright fatso, nice Kidney stones!"
I prefer him. Stew has to ration out his material so thin. Rich is much more spontaneous and better at improvising. I think some of Stew's routines are better than any of Rich's.
Gervais started out with something genius (the office) and then steadily declined to the point where he was getting laughs from a dwarf being unable to get into a chair (life's too short). So yes, he's become less funny, obviously.
what you don't realise is herring did this entire interview blacked up
I’ve just watched the 3rd series of of After Life. It was devoid of any comedy, in any way shape or form.
I told this guy to look up Stewart lee and he just told me that he thought he was a "discount Ricky gervais" deleted off my phone.
I knew there was a reason I respected Richard herring
He isn't even transphobic he's pointing out obvious hypocrisies, which themselves have torn communities apart.
Herring is a gentleman.
Ricky Gervais is the Don McLean of comedy: He did one amazing thing years ago followed by a bunch of stuff that's passable at best.
Still funnier than the hacks taking swipes at him.
What did he do that was funny?
Rawhead Rex The Office & the ricky gervais show
Idk I’ve seen many bits of his that were quite funny at the moment, but that’s not grounds for defending everything he does
His stuff with Stephen Merchant is definitely much stronger
It's interesting to hear something from that sliver of time when Jimmy Savile was a nation treasure venerated in death.
Erm... I think "al" is needed. An "al".
@@vebesese5632 "that saliver of time?"
@@NicholasBerry-ku9rdnational
@@jamesbeddus I prefer the other one, it sounds almost Proustian. Though 'sliver' needs only an extra 'a', leaving us with a spare 'l'. If we could come up with another 'a' and an extra 'e' we could use them with it to have Savile "venerealated' in death. It still leaves 'nation' lacking but it's a fairly robust word and can handle itself.
@@NicholasBerry-ku9rd glad to see you've properly studied it
Love Herring, fucking dude!
2:44 'I'm not sure he cast her in Grange Hill, maybe he did. Maybe his tentacles go back into the past".
That had me in stitches.
tendrils*
@@The69Health
Maybe his tentacles do too.
Tendrils and tentacles?
Ooh, that would be fiddly,
a right cufuffle.
Stay Another Day
Bet your not regretting that Jimmy Savile joke now!
Apostrophe.
@@vebesese5632 Not bothered about the missing 'e' then?
@@gerrabath Bothered about a missing e? Are you Brian Harvey?
@@sierraromeoromeo2444 Wut?
@@gerrabath Don't worry, other people will get it.
I absolutely fucking love both Lee and Herring for their stance on this. It’s something that affects a family member personally and I appreciate every word of what they are saying.
@An Orange A Day Keeps The Scurvy Away if you really are that absurdly far beneath understanding what this is even about, there's no real way to get you to the surface. Do you... ACTUALLY think that the only thing people are offended by in all of this is whether or not something counts as a swear word? Is that REALLY your entire picture of this issue? Come on, have a think.
Because I suspect that you're being pretentious and playing dumb, that's why. I think you very likely understand a lot better why that comparison makes no fucking sense, and are just pretending to be clueless in order to score some argument points. Have I hit the nail on the head or do you seriously, really actually think that question is one worthy of a response?
@An Orange A Day Keeps The Scurvy Awaywhat insult did I throw, exactly? That's a pretty clear way to dismiss your comparison. It was a comparison between an ordinary swear word and an actual insult word. Two quite seperate things.
I still honestly can't 100% believe you're actually seeking an answer to this? Surely you troll?
@An Orange A Day Keeps The Scurvy Away I'm sorry I assumed that way then, it did seem a lot like the kind of thing someone might say just in order to stir up trouble. Unfortunately the general atmosphere of youtube comment sections has rendered me suspicious like that.
Once again the majority of the internet community have nothing intelligent or profound to say. Herring has explained each point thoroughly, highlighting various misconceptions and misunderstandings about what he said, and the broken records come out to just attack him or compare him to Gervais without contending with any of the issues he has raised. If there is a hell I think we must be living in it right now.
Just wait until 9 years time
Who's the other guy speaking in this? He makes such a great point about people who will leap to their favourite celebrity's defense regardless of what they've said or done, especially when he references Morrissey fans.
Don’t mind me I’m just here to laugh at CZcams’s shit comment system 9 years ago
I think he was ruined by fame. If you see interviews he did when The Office first got popular, you can see him thinking for a second before coming out with a really subtle, perfectly phrased joke. Now he seems to just vomit the most obvious, cheap jokes straight out of his face. I think he's been convinced he's a comedy genius and has lowered his standards.
I thought it was PERFECTLY clear. Amazed it got thumbs down so quickly.
Bring back TMWRNJ with Richard, Stewart and Nathalie.
Aw bless Richard Herring, I love him.
I am afraid that it has been all downhill for Gervais since The Office. Check out his lockdown vlogs, comes over like a sad old drunk.
Yeah hes like modern day John Cleese tried and dated
Afterlife, Extras, just brilliant, his stand ups, the Emmys, The Globes, are great, surely he’s not failing too much? He has worldwide admiration, hasn’t he?
@@chubbychubbs5552 to be fair all of his golden globes turns are completely legendary
Fair point mate, can't argue with that!
At least he doesn't have 'The Invention of Lying' to his name. That would be a serious blemish on anyone's CV.
Sounds like a pretty coherent well thought out conversation to me...
I wonder of the person who was offended by the Jimmy Saville joke is still offended?
+Ian Taylor yes, yes i am.
Probably waiting for a Kevin spacey joke to emerge.
I love The Smiths and I love a lot of the lyrics he's wrote, but you can not deny the outlandish and dickish crap that he has come out with over the years. Using the Oslo massacre in 2011 to preach vegetarianism (I'm a vegetarian myself and thought it was beyond ridiculous of him to say what he said at such a time) and referring to the Chinese as a "subspecies" are two examples that spring to mind.
Yeah, The Smiths, love that guy, he's greeeeaaat.
This is exactly why I'm not on Twitter.
Your username certainly sounds like 90% of twitter?
yup
Twitter only causes endless arguments where no one wins and stress. So good idea
At the end of the day Ricky Gervais has spoke out against disabilism in his comedy. Put simply he should have known better than to use a word like "mong". As someone with a sevely autisitc sister myself im with Richard Herring all the way on this one. People are failing to realise that words like that are offensive to disabled people.
It was Gervais' reaction to the criticism that was particularly bothersome. I'd have believed that he didn't know what the word meant, I didn't either. But when you find out, just say sorry and stop using it.
+Juuso Peltoniemi you have a rapier wit sir!
You'd think he'd have looked the word up on the Internet or a dictionary or something, before picking it as his hill to die on.
In Ricky's earlier work though, he did some bits and pieces on Channel 4, he tried to make an image for himself as one of those refreshingly un-PC comics of the sort the Daily Mail love so much, "You CAN'T just speak your mind like that, brave rebel Ricky Gervais" "I think you'll find I just did!"
It was a bit desparate. Saying any old shite to get a bit of cheap controversy to maybe get a bit of publicity. And then he wrote that thing the Americans love, and got addicted to having his arse kissed. He's not fussy about who kisses it, poor fella. He must have cold sores, warts, and all sorts round his ringpiece.
Everybody mad!
Just be nice to people, everyone. Including the disabled. That is all you need to worry about. Mong is not OK to say as long as people find it offensive. It will be OK to say when no significant number are offended. Gervais does not decide what is offensive.
The word 'mong' is certainly not one that I have ever come across at school, the only people i know who use it are people like Ricky Gervais who are using it as an insult. The reason so many complained is because in many people's mind it still is an insult towards the disabled. Words can still cause harm. The whole 'changed meaning' argument doesn't work unless it has been accepted to have a different meaning univerally. To be honest, the word is old-fashioned and dated.
A very bright guy with his heart in the right place though.
Gervais was new to twitter at the time, that is what he meant. Not all the features are immediately obvious.
Richard looks so young in that picture.
I never denied the transition. The difference is, the word "idiot" actually has shifted meaning where it means something at least different enough for it to not be specifically offensive. "Mong" however still has heavy connotations of downs syndrome.
So you're saying doctors aren't allowed to call patients "obese" (as i also said) but you think they're allowed to diagnose someone officially as an "idiot savant"?
That is NOT a term used in modern times.
everyone involved thinks they are WAY more important then they truly are.
I don't. That's beauty of CZcams and having an opinion. Gday!
I think you should check your sources. They still hold the world record for the most downloaded podcast of all time. When they started, podcasting was a very new thing, the success of their show really showed people what you can do with it and how many people you can reach.
As for them starting anything of much note: The Office anyone? Even if you dislike Gervais you have to admit that The Office changed a lot of things in terms of sitcom style and writing.
I was just here to hear him slag off Ricky Gervais (i'am a fan of his work, even though I find it funny when people slag him off). I had no fucking idea they were going for Morrissey...what the fuck has Morrissey done?! Leave Morrissey alone you bastards.
FYI Idiot is an offensive word. It means mong.
'In 19th and early 20th century medicine and psychology, an "idiot" was a person with a very severe intellectual disability. In the early 1900s, Dr. Henry H. Goddard proposed a classification system for intellectual disability based on the Binet-Simon concept of mental age. Individuals with the lowest mental age level (less than three years) were identified as idiots; imbeciles had a mental age of three to seven years, and morons had a mental age of seven to ten years'
Funny old world, eh?
It originated in Ancient Greek and Latin, actually.
but in terms of downloads, they really pushed it into the mainstream from a relatively early point.
I love Richard Herring, and I love Ricky Gervais. Richard Herring is very underrated as a comedian, but doesn't make him lesser in any way. Ricky has some fantastic stuff, but has gone off the boil with a lot of his stuff. It's a shame that he can't see the error of his ways. I hope that he gets back to his prime, because the early stand up shows - Politics and Animals were brilliant, as well as other things he's done.
Not that I hate gervais, i like a lot of his standup, extras was awesome - but it shit me straight away when i saw and heard about this (admittedly ages ago) cos it was uncomfortably clear what he was doing straight away. and that people were servicing his need by taking sides in the argument.
Look, to avoid any confusion just run things past Richard Herring first to see if it is acceptable
The thing Richard said about the disabled comic not getting any tweets calling her a mong says it all really, the people who think Ricky Gervais is "redefining" it wouldnt ever say it around a disabled person because they know exactly what it means. A bunch of hypocrites defending something that wasnt even funny on the crudest level.
I enjoyed this
Yes. All of that is definitely true. The media, as always, have a lot to answer for. I was arguing against the idea of the word being OK to use, but in this instance I don't think Gervais whipped up the majority of the controversy.
But Gervais is an adult. Not a kid at a local school
I love Richard (not because I’m called Richard) Herring.
I love Ricky Gervais' work. I find his stuff really funny. But he was wrong on this and should have realised and apologised, instead he reacted like a hurt child and tried to justify his actions.
Gervais, I realised during Derek, was his attempt at career atonement. Not actual atonement, but a blind in the form of Derek, who, in his first incarnation years ago, was not the sympathetic type of the series, but a figure of fun. That Gervais would apply such a heavy revisionism to Derek sounds almost ludicrous until you listen to him in interview in the last couple of years and realise how he has applied revisionism to his career, never so much as hinting that The Office and Extras were collaborative efforts.
It's astonishing how such a successful bloke can have such a massively fragile ego. If you say mean things about him, he misquotes you on Twitter and you have to deal with his simple-minded fans sending you death threats.
Utterly, utterly a twat, and The Office was shit. "HAR HAR THE MAN MISUNDERSTANDS UNSPOKEN SOCIAL RULES AND CONVENTIONS! HUR!"
In fact I'd sooner watch the Motorbike Clothing Shop sketch developed into an entire series, and that just sort of faded into nothing halfway through.
Life imitates art imitates life ad infinitum.
@padraic2001eire He did a bit about a play he wrote when he was 15 for GCSE's and I've never seen anything like it on stage, the most naturally funny stand up i've seen. Very, very clever and really funny, tell me if he does it, also one of the stories he did at the end was genius. Pure genius.
There's only really one term anyone should have used to describe them, and that's their name.
its because I dont think it means a disabled person, when ricky gervais says "mongs meaning has changed", there is a group over 30 who seem to disagree, and a lot of people under 30 who believe that it has
Indeed. Also, isn't it funny how the tabloid's fury at Gervais using the word seemed to coincide with the anti-Gervais phase where he was still getting stick from hosting the Golden Globes despite the fact Gervais has used the word in question repeatedly on his Podcasts, Stand-up shows and his Blog for years before?
I like both comedians. It's good he didn't actually slag off Gervais ... it's a bad sign for a comedian to start slagging off other comedians (in a non-joke way of course). Usually comedians are light-hearted enough not to use their fame to take pot-shots at people they don't like.
Words matter
Well said ♡
I think a "who cares" is in place here ?
What’s he on about?
Moustaches shouldn't be able to cause offence. It's just that certain ideals have been attached to them. Words are commonly used to cause offence.
The Adam Carolla Show took that Guinness World Record away from them in the middle of last year.
Even before that being the first podcast supported by a mainstream media group just means they had contacts and big enough names to push it.
As for The Office changing a lot of things in terms of sitcom style and writing, all I saw was failing to meet the standards good sitcoms like Father Ted, Black Books, Spaced.
Operation Good Guys and others did the mockumentary thing years before The Office.
It may not have followed the same arc exactly but that is because 'idiot' predates medical classification of mental illness, not only that but the word still refers disapragingly to those of sub-par unteligence or retardation just without the badge of medical legitimacy. As soon as doctors began classification of mental illness 'idiot' became a part of their lexicon, simply because it was not specifically orignaly terminological doesn't mean it's long association with mental illness dissapears.
Can't believe he made fun of britains beloved jimmy saville!
totally agree. I really enjoy the Gervais podcasts because he makes a good straight man to Pilkington's weird man. But I never found Extras or Life's Too Short (The Office I kinda liked, although there was only one joke - David Brent is annoying). There's nothing wrong with being un-PC in comedy but if you're going to be un-PC you've got to do it with some kind of wit to make some kind of point. Unlike, say Frankie Boyle and latterly (but not formerly) Gervais who use just to be mean-spirited
However what we can agree on also is that - in context - any word can be used e.g to satirise prejudice, quoting someone, etc However Gervais' use of the word wasn't for satirical purposes. It was also ironic how TV show 'The Wright Stuff' - a show that was used in a montage of sensationalism in the Extras episode involving a child with Downs Syndrome in order to satirise how a story is taken out of context or exaggerated - reported on 'mong-gate' using the hyperbolic accusations by the tabloids
thats Andrew collins
I'm a fan of both comedians and I hate 99% of this comments section
started that movement? if your referring to podcasting they were fairly late in catching that boat
No worries, least you know to quit whilst you aren't too far behind.
no. Its from the collins herring podcast
@padraic2001eire Hey glad you enjoyed it! Yep the gcse part was unusual but the perfect showcase for his talent. So do you think he beats Herring/Gervais? I certainly do. It was both clever and incredibly funny. Herring is very intelligent but suffers from not being naturally funny and Gervais writes with Merchant so instantly comparisons are made and I feel (stand up) Merchant has the beating of him. The self depreciating humour he has down to a tee.
I don’t support Ricky Gervais at all, he’s a biggot and I’m not disagreeing with the point Richard Herring is trying to get across, however this video has made me decide that I don’t support Richard Herring anymore, because he’s literally said the n word in this video, if he publicly apologises then I’ll support him again, but there was no need for him to say all of these slurs
If you're not joking, then you're seriously missing what the real problem is. I'm no fan of this bloke, but you're deeply upset that in this vid from 2011, he's being a 2011 Progressive and not a 2021 Progressive. Don't be surprised when everyone you love gets cancled and every film, TV show and album you treasure gets taken away.
@Real Aiglon Subtext is probably a bit more important if naughty words distract you easily. A few years ago Benedict Cumberbatch got dragged for bemoaning the plight of 'coloured' actors in Britain. Because he said 'coloured'. But he was bemoaning their plight. But he said 'coloured'. But he was bemoaning their plight. But he said 'coloured'. But he was bemoaning their plight. But he said 'coloured'. But he was bemoaning their plight. But he said 'coloured'. But he was bemoaning their plight. But he said 'coloured'. See? Progressive, but not enough not to trigger. Anyway. You're probably right about me, as I have no idea what point you're trying to make. See ya!
@Real Aiglon Well, crap. I quite agree, tho.
Ricky Gervais is the Noel Gallagher of comedy. He is well past his best, arrogant, bereft of any new ideas and has a fan base of thick fans.
Invention of Lying: bad reviews. Science stand up: awful reviews. Life's Too Short: Dreadful reviews. Derek: mixed reviews.
I say his time is up, don't you?
Time has proven this statement to be false although I see what your saying
And Richard Herring Agrees with that point entirely.
Richard Herring was just politely saying what Gervais was doing was a) A bit unfunny and b) Poking fun at the wrong targets in Herring's opinion.
He was providing a critique on Gervais, as free speech allows you.
It’s not a free speech question .. no one is denying either’s legal right to say the word .. they’re arguing over whether it is morally right to say it.. if it was just a legal right issue one could just say the people responding to herring are also exercising their own right to speak leading to circularity … it’s a totally different argument that you have failed to understand by appealing to people’s free speech rights ..
How? He seems quite fair in this.
What's the name of the interviewer? He has a very characteristic voice and I can picture him in my head, but can't think for the life of me what he's called.
Andrew Collins
@@bigtatties That's him! Thanks.
I've really let down team Andrew in challenging times.
just middle clash sheltered people that find this offensive, go to your local school and listen to the language being used by the kids, "mong" is the least offensive -
I had a lovely aunt with downs syndrome, I hate it when I see people using mong, and I've been a horrible bastard at times, but I've never been offensive to disabled people.😥
We've all used spastic, mong etc as kids. Mostly used to try and impress other kids. The school area was and maybe still is a place will wild rules.
So you can horrible to everyone except your little protected class
But if the other 50% agree that I got punched then my view that I did get punched is not outdated as enough people share it, so that it remains relevant. I see your point, language progresses and evolves as years go by. Maybe in 10 years time the word 'mong' will no longer mean someone with 'Down Syndrome', but presently it does and in my experience as a working class 19 year old male thew majority of people I have come across realise that.
Well said. xx
Well no. It's not offensive to you if you're not personally effected by disability. Or have this wonderful thing called empathy.
is it just me, but whois richard herring ?
Inbred and Mongrel are polar opposites. Mongrels are healthy. Inbreds are not.
This is merely pedantry, I ain't got beef, bruv.
go to the pub on any night of the week and listen to what people are saying, mong is like the least offensive? happy now,
then why do we use words like "idiot" or "mad" - arent they just as bad, or does a certain amount of time have to pass before they become acceptable
If you yourself don't like Gervais' work that is fine and I respect that. However, judging the quality of someone's work based purely on the opinions of reviewers is stupid. Since when do they have the final word on what is "good" and what isn't?
Is it not Mark Lawson?
6:58 what does richard say?
aye sticks and scones
Gervais shouldn't have used such a contentious word for something as unimportant as a way of saying 'moronic friend'. Having said that, the sensationalism surrounding 'mong-gate' more and more resembled the sequence in 'Extras' where the actual controversy is exaggerated repeatedly. Gervais posting photos of himself pulling a stupid face were completely unrelated to the media's interpretation of Gervais's use of the word 'mong'. Shame on the media and Herring and Lee for linking to two together.
* I missed out the word "funny" at the end of Life's Too Short :)
Oh right, aha, apologies, sarcasm's often hard to gauge via text!
Words like cretin and idiot are used quite regularly and casually as insults these days even though they were used as terms for describing intellectual disability. It seems the offensive nature of a word is defined by it's currency, something which happens more with words relating to people with disabilities than ethnic groups as these people tend to be in less of a position to defend themselves and so long as a word has a specific hurtful meaning it shouldn't be used in a callous manner.
The refuge of the mediocre middle class comedian, lofty discussions on whether comedians who are superior to you should use certain words
It's true, why are you fanboys getting angry over this?
Not, it isn't brave, but it's certainly funny. Humour is subjective, don't forget!
I agree that it was a bit out-of-line mocking Susan Boyle's gnarled appearance, but there is nothing wrong with the word 'mong', when used in the right way. That's the beauty of language. No word is intrinsically bad, so to speak.
There word is still in usage in the medical profession: 'Idiot Savant' fro example. The point I'm trying to make is that the transition of 'idiot' from terminology to vernacular is exactly the same 'mong' just not as recent. What have doctors (quite rightly) being discouraged from calling people fat got to do with it? Are you trying to suggest that medical professionals should take the piss out of their patients' ailments? "Alright fatso, nice Kidney stones!"
I prefer him. Stew has to ration out his material so thin. Rich is much more spontaneous and better at improvising. I think some of Stew's routines are better than any of Rich's.
Indeed, but I don't want to aggress him/her. He/she seems like they might get angry, as more or less everything they said was incorrect.
Gervais started out with something genius (the office) and then steadily declined to the point where he was getting laughs from a dwarf being unable to get into a chair (life's too short). So yes, he's become less funny, obviously.