The continue use of paper inner sleeves for new releases. Every label should be on board with anti-static sleeves while photos/lyrics/liner notes & additional artwork should just be an insert, not a sleeve itself. For the price they are charging they can afford it.
I just said this in another forum. I pre-ordered the new Steely Dan album ( a Double) and the new Nightfly Live by Donald Fagen...both came with Printed graphic Paper Sleeves which split during shipping due to labels not removing records even when requesting. I know I'm not alone on those requests. Paper sleeves have GOT TO GO. Enough. It's bad for the records, the often if not always split during shipping and at current costs - it's not right. Same with removing them ...often if its not the inner sleeve splitting, it's the OUTER COVER. Use the right mailer, remove them (many labels are shifting to no shrink wrap...thank you!) so this shouldn't be a problem.
My biggest issue - is the cost of vinyl it is just starting to get out of hand - what they are now charging for regular releases, double album, box sets....I have to really pick & choose because of the cost is just getting out of hand.
Absolutely agree. I'm used to taking a 'punt' on releases and new artists. Over the years, I've discovered so many great artists this way. Struggling to justify doing this ongoing
I think the use of vinyl with splatter colors have more audio problems than the the old school black vinyl. I remember an album I owned from the 50's was clear red. Did not seem to last as long.
@@egold1006 Unfortunately that's misinformation. In the 50s, they hadn't figured out how to do colored vinyl properly. I suggest you check this out: czcams.com/video/2yzbO8aZNJE/video.html
The reason for the increase in 'limited variants' is simple. With the vast majority of people listening to music via streaming, getting people to buy multiple variants increases physical sales, which the record companies get a larger percentage of. If we're all honest, we only need one copy of a record to actually listen to (and the variant really doesn't matter), but if you get even a small percentage of the physical media consumers to buy more than one copy (out of either fan loyalty or due to FOMO), then it works for them. Taylor Swift fans, for example, do not need 8 versions of Folklore but there's no doubt that some fans will have bought them all. That means the record company has got 8 times as much money from one customer than they would have if they just released the same album across the board. I also think this problem is exacerbated by pre ordering. We all play this 'which variant should I buy' game on albums that we haven't even heard. An example that comes to mind is the new Lorde album. I paid extra on a limited variant pre order compared to the standard version, and when the record came out I didn't even enjoy it that much. I actually think this trend is the biggest threat to causing the vinyl bubble to burst. From reading about the baseball cards collapse, a big factor of that was the increased use of increasingly ridiculous ways of adding collectability until people just stopped caring. Same thing could easily happen with vinyl. Vinyl is a more expensive and less accessible method of music consumption compared to streaming, and when you have a consumer base that chooses this but is getting taking taken advantage of, people are just going to start using the easier method.
Yes. Stop the damn variants! (I don't by new, so doesn't effect me one bit.) How is there too much demand when it seems that everything is printed in limited quantities? What's going on with the supply chain is much larger than just record collecting.
Some great points made here. The thing I have a bit of an issue with at the moment is when I buy a brand new double album and the 2 records are put into a single album sleeve. They should be put into gatefold sleeves. I really don't like having to slide 2 albums into one sleeve thus running the risk of scratching the vinyl. You would think for the amount of money we pay for vinyl these days they'd give you a nice gatefold sleeve for a double album. It's something that seems to be occurring quite a lot now and it bugs me. And don't get me started on off centre pressings, my biggest pet hate. Grrrr! 😠
Thank you for succinctly stating what many collectors have been feeling. Quality remains the biggest issue. Especially in Australia where new releases from PJ or Dylan are commanding $80. You get over the cost hurdle only to buy a badly warped record. Getting close to giving up on vinyl.
Another great TMR vid! 1) long lead times don’t really bother me cause I get it. 2) quality control falling off a cliff has in fact been quite disheartening as a vinyl enthusiast as of late cause I feel like I’m playing Russian roulette with every new record I buy. 3) this one has honestly really been bugging me lately. I’ll jump on a new release drop that I’m really excited about, it’ll sell out quick, and just a couple hours later, another arguably cooler variant drops (or worse, they just add more stock of the supposedly limited variant I bought) and I feel silly for pulling the trigger so fast. 4) botting is the bane of our existence as vinyl collectors. Period. 5) see three lol.
Problems number 3 and 4 have been issues with the David Bowie estate and their last box set releases. First came the box set called Brilliant Live Adventures. A box set of live recordings from the 1990's. They decided to release each title individually with one coming every 6 weeks or so. This meant buyers had to pay shipping on each title individually which added up to quite a bit. Then you found out that the box to hold all of the records had to be purchased separately... an empty box! and it cost around $30! The first discs were sold with no problems but then the bot issue popped up with the final titles and buyers who had gone through the order process were told a mistake had been made and your order could not be completed. There was so much complaining that the estate sent apology emails and promised to press more copies soon. All you had to do was let them know which titles you were interested in and they would contact you with more information. That was in March. I haven't heard anything since. The next fiasco was when the Bowie estate announced the fifth installment of their Era boxes coming at the end of November. They have been releasing box sets of Bowie's studio albums divided by era... the Ziggy era box... the Berlin trilogy box... the Let's Dance/80's box... etc. Each box was priced at about $250 and included a few bonus discs. This fifth era is the 1990's to 2001 is 18 discs! Five of them are studio albums and the rest are filler "bonus" material. They priced this bloated box at $400! One of the albums in this set is a previously unreleased project called TOY. A bootleg of Toy has been available for many years now but to make matters worse Toy is getting its own box release in January. Why include it in this box? Why include four discs of alternate takes and demos? Why not trim this fat and reduce the price? I've been a Bowie fan since I was a teen in 1971 and I feel taken advantage of by these money grubbing corporate suits.
Artists and band that seem to just refuse to put albums out on vinyl either for the first time or reissue, or even anniversary editions that include demos and outtakes (cough cough Tool Dolly Parton), thus leaving tons of money on the table while people are spending crazy amounts on used original, reissues, and bootlegs. That one is the case when it comes to video game soundtracks. Unless it's an audiophile company like MFSL or Analogue Productions, even VMP, I'd say more than half of the time you don't get what you pay for when record labels reissue their old albums themselves. Take the Doors reissues from Rhino, and Capital's release of Pet Sounds. Analogue Productions used the original master tapes, got the best people to do the job, in the case of Pet Sounds a totally new Stereo mix, and pressed at the best plants with premium packaging inside and out. Meanwhile the big labels just use digital transfers or just a cd mix, pressed at a plant that doesn't have quality in mind, and choose the cheaper packing option that includes the sandpaper sleeve the record gets put in
Poor vinyl quality is a direct result of 2 things…. Not enough manufacturing resources and not enough quality people to perform the work. I wager many albums are pressed on equipment devoid of the proper preventative maintenance and these pressings are performed by low skilled staff. That said - there ARE pressing houses that demand specific quality control in conjunction with the label requesting the press - three rules of manufacturing “cheap - quick - quality” but you can only ever choose 2. Want quick and quality - gonna cost you. Want quality & cheap ? Gonna take time. Want cheap and quick….. you get the point. Great video and great thoughts. I don’t buy ‘forced collectibles’ I will collect stuff from 80s on back where the market is well established.
I think I'm going to stop preordering records that are likely to be available in stores as they don't seem to be getting sent out to customers for 1-3 weeks after the drop date but the stores get them on time...it causes me emotional pain when i go to my local shop and they have the record i bought 5 months in advance for weeks and mine still hasn't shipped lol. I'm seeking therapy for this 😀
You pre order folks are what company's love.ive never ore ordered anything. Music,games etc. It always works out that I just never saw a need to lay money down 10 months in advance. That's the kind of thing I'd do for a friend's company or start up as a favor, not to these big corporations. Pre ordering ruined every consumer good.it wasn't really a thing when I was a kid.you waited for release, and you got the cd,game,tape cassette,book.
@@ddub1253 Sorry mate, with the limited nature of many record releases you have to preorder if you want it. And with the disastrous lead times this has exacerbated the issue.
1. the pressing plants dont have to press the entire run before shipping they can take them as they come off the press and ship them as they come off the press that in fact i think is where the saying "hot off the press" comes from they dont allow them to cool before shipping. they can also ship them direct to collectors via the postal system rather than shipping the entire run to a distribution hub it is more expensive and good collectors are willing to pay more for faster shipping even more yet to have it made in their country so they can ship without involving international travel, customs and even covid disinfection. if it just the songs they want they could have digital downloadable copies. no but your complaining may influence them into changing their systems to support very short runs, "hot off the press" and even downloads 2. non fill can be solved maybe by refrigerating the molds during pressing to cool them faster. 3. just like olive oil the virgin or first pressing is always the best. just like olive oil where after the mechanical pressing they then use chemicals to extract more oil causes it to not taste or texture as nicely the molds on the presses tend to wear out. if anyone has done ceramics knows as each object is cast the details whether hair or lips or undulations in clothing are not as deep or curvy the same for the grooves maybe the groove walls would chip or flatten so a skip may happen and require more tracking force or a change in the anti skate and such another way they can meet the demands is to press black vinyl and print standard plain sleeves and ship them out first then ship ship out. replacement sleeves and the other accessories separately so those who want the music can get the music now. it is like buying an iphone and all you get is the phone now and in 2 or 3 weeks you get a a package containing the accessories. or buying a new car and going back to the dealer to get the jack and spare tire. 4. why not use captchas to deal with the bots? limit how many at a time say limit 1 per customer.
I have had the worst quality control in the UK, £30 will get you a noisy, warped, filthy and unbalanced pressing, often times im having to really give them a damn good clean before they are accepted, I'm now starting to take albums back that aren't up to scratch.
Too many variants & Too many limited editions are making a mockery of the vinyl reissue market these days. Just reissue a release & do a special edition if necessary.
Having spent a good chunk of this year working for a vinyl distributor, I can tell you that the entire industry is struggling to find a solution for lead times. No one is safe, and there are no signs that things will let up. It's a maelstrom of the pandemic and skyrocketing demand. You could have submitted a project in June and still be stuck waiting on test pressings. As for a new plant, there is definitely a ton of interest to open one, but the overhead in labor and resources, coupled with the very real effect that climate is having on production, are making it difficult. QC at plants suffers because labels are hounded by buyers about records, and they in turn have to hound the plants, who have to work overtime and put out multiple fires at once. The pre-order game is favored by some labels and artists because they can recoup right away, but again, because of the explosion in demand for product, this creates long delays, and often, the pre-order has likely not yet been pressed before it has gone up, and the label is doing the sale to test the waters and gauge how big of a pressing to order. Many shrug and say nothing can be done, but many are also pointing out that this helps nobody.
The different versions, I don't see them as a problem. They give opinions. It's a good thing. I got my Folklore version in colored vinyl and Tina Turner's Foreign Affair in black. Perfectly happy with them.
The large number of variants for a release really irritates me. Complete overkill and holds up pressing plants that could be pressing other releases instead of 9 variants of the same record
Though i only collect CD's, which don't have pressing problems, but because vinyl does have production delays the CD release gets delayed too. Predictably they want them both to be released on the same date.
QC is probably the most persistent problem I have found, and like you said, in the 70's we did not have that problem, it seems like "Limited Editions" are very common and find it annoying, I usually don't buy them
I've had several pre-orders I placed in the UK over the past couple of months. After receiving multiple delay notifications, I decided to cancel those pre-orders. Instead, I re-ordered those records from a shop in Europe. The shop I order from is less than 9 hours away from the pressing planet. In most cases, I tend to receive my order a few weeks in advance by side-stepping the UK altogether.
Love the topic. I seriously think if artists/labels cut back on the variants, you instantly improve the situation for the other problems you mention. How much did all those McCartney III and Taylor Swift variants back up those plants?
I know we've been told otherwise, but I have been specifically mentioning those titles for ages now. I totes agree. Meanwhile I picked up a mint TUG OF WAR at the resale shop for $5.00 . Great album, a return to form for mac and value is bupkiss according to Discogs. WTF ? Sanity is out the window. No way I'm paying 100$ cuz Jack White label pressed a version. NOPE.
Couldnt agree more. Look at the weeknd, adele, billie eillish and taylor swift. Those 4 artists no doubt are choking the plants with the numerous variants 3 of them for the same bloody album. Honestly it should be limited to 2 or 3 per album. One standard, one colour variant and one deluxe thats it
The price of a lp record in 1966 cost about $5.95. Today, with inflation, you are looking at $80.99 for the same record. I only need the records i purchased in the 60's and 70's which were recorded with the utmost fidelity at the time. One record which was pressed in 1960, is so good ,there are none today i have heard of which can surpass it for sound reproduction.
Disagree with your assertion about sound quality, as many ‘70s records were pressed on crap vinyl and the audiophile releases today are industry standards, but I appreciate the perspective on record cost. And people complain about $60 Analogue Productions LPs - that’s still cheap by comparison
@@therealdonelaitis There is sound quality on records and there is sound recording quality. One of the best labels that utilised the state of the art recording studios was Command Records. Some of their albums were recorded on 35 MM Magnetic Film instead of tape. The result was breathtaking. Also, the quality of the vinyl pressings were top class. The Japanese label King Records made available their Super Dynamic Sound series in the 60's Again superb recordings . Then there was Decca phase 4 records. and the list goes on.
Great video Matt ! I must have been lucky as I’ve not had too many quality issues recently. One that does get me is off centre pressings. Aaaargh ! I agree about all the variants too. Surely isn’t that just clogging up the plants and adding to the supply problem.
Entry #5 -too many variants- is causing #3 -making labels too greedy- which is causing #1 -clogging pressing plants- impacting quality in #2 Is all related to the market responding favorably to the overwhelming offering. Eventually the bubble will burst
So far I've been lucky when it comes to brand new records not having any issues. All these many variants of one album, plus some of the useless releases like picture discs that come out on RSD I think are what is taking up time in pressing plants
Making some great points Matt! Number 3 is particularly egregious. I was super annoyed with the release of the new Chvrches album Screen Violence (amazing record). Several LE variants were drip fed out by the label. Obviously pre-planned. It would have been much fairer had the label announced all variants of the album up front and let fans and collectors pick out what they wanted. And don't get me started on the deluxe editions! Grrrr!
As somebody who loves movie soundtracks and Mondo, it’s really frustrating having bots scoop up limited versions so quick. Like the Dune sketchbooks album that sold out in like 5 minutes this week. Like you said there should be enough where everyone can at least get a standard copy.
I assure you...you'll see that DUNE again. Unless it tanks at the box office, and it's not likely. I'm more interested in small horror or syfy that wont see huge pushes ,unlike the Zimmer stuff. I didn't even try to get that one. A year ago I would have.
Hi Matt, good video and I agree that a lot of of these problems are connected and could bring about a crash for vinyl if they aren't dealt with. Coincidentally, I'm studying Music Business and I'm sure that the last thing you mentioned would be seen as a Business Model, a way of getting consumers to part with their cash. Unfortunately, that sort of cynical ploy isn't going to go away because there will always be people who will buy those varients and deluxe editions, humans react this way to FOMO and the only way to stop it is for people to choose to change themselves and learn to exercise better self control which is difficult but very possible.
@@TooManyRecords it is human psychology and the Industry will take advantage of that. But if we take responsibility for our emotions, thoughts and actions then we can change our behaviour and beliefs. Most people never have come to understand these things about themselves. So yeah it is on both sides.
11:05 - Led Zeppelin did this 10 years before Taylor Swift was born with their final album 'In Through the Out Door' in 1979 with 6 different variants of cover art - and the album was in brown paper packaging so you did not know which version you were getting. It helped them sell more of what was arguably their worst album.
All of these. Yes. Number 5 speaks to me in particular. There are a few bands (New Found Glory, Four Year Strong) that have been releasing their albums and then 1 year later do a deluxe version with a few extra songs. If I supported you immediately, it feels weird. Do I sell my OG copy? Do I keep both? Half the time it has alternate artwork I don't like as much, it's weird.
I don't mind the wait or multiple variants. In Australia (my experience at least) we are typically lucky to get an indie exclusive, unless you pay some ridiculous price for shipping and get something different from overseas. Most times I will get a variant if it looks cool, or just the standard if I really want that album. What really upsets me is the limited runs that make it impossible to get at least a standard issue and the poor quality. I returned an album only to get a replacement that skipped in the exact same spot... so now I just deal with it for the sake of having a copy.
The biggest issue is the fact that there is only one lacquer plant left. This wasn't even mentioned, but with the Apollo fire, we're going to be at a point where the lack of lacquers for masters will force the cost of records up.
It's ridiculous to see how something that many of us are passionate about is falling (or rather fell) into the hands of absurd "collecting". Color variants, limited editions ... and what is really important, I mean, enjoying having an LP, putting it on your turntable and enjoying every second of listening? The're people right now who are feeding that absurd practice of having 12 variants of an LP and not even putting them on or enjoying them. Excellent video Too Many Records as always and putting on the table the problems that are putting Vinyl in check at the moment.
To me one of the biggest issues is how out of the loop the average collector is. I really wish people were more generally aware and educated on what actually goes into making records, what the current situation is and why the situation is what it is. I understand people are excited and want the record they are excited for, but it is almost like a 2nd full time job constantly answering messages like “why haven’t I received my record yet” or “any updates?” when the records don’t even exist yet due to pressing plant delays. If the label has social media, follow it for updates and refer to that! Especially if it’s a small label with literally a whopping team of 1 who will have to take the time to field these easily answered questions :)
Well when folks buy records from your company I assume, you are charging their credit cards rights on the spot? if you are THAT is wrong!!! They should not be charge until you SHIP!! But then again if folks are foolish enough to let YOU use their money for months on end, ------ I guess I don't blame you. There's a sucker born every minute!!
@@Tunz909 you’re gonna get a lot less cool records from smaller labels out there with that attitude. If that’s really how you feel then maybe you’re better off just sticking to whatever mass market pressings you can find at Walmart and Amazon.
@@MrRom92DAW "get a lot less cool records" what the heck are you talking about? Do you charge folks before you ship? Then don't get upset when you have to respond to your customers who patronize your business with questions as to where their product is that they bought from you!!LOL Maybe you need to get into another line of work! Why don't you buy a parking lot where all you have to do is stick out your hand and folks give you money and you do not have to do anything all day long!!!
All of these reasons have been getting to me over my past 4 ish years of record collecting and I’m probably going to be taking a little break until I at least see costs lower slightly and quality control improve.
For me : 1 Not a problem. I’ll get it eventually 2 Agree. Ac/dc’s reissues are a joke 3 Agree with you. Standard black edition is fine with me. 4 Not an issue for me , but maybe collectors could order a copy in a physical record store , in person and collect/pay upon arrival ? Only for those über-special ones. 5 That’s evil/greedy. Depeche mode did that in the 80’s and got massive critisism and backlash , so they took it down to a minimum. Good video.
1. My biggest vinyl collecting pet peeve is people complaining about long shipping times. Maybe it’s because I’m just patient and know it’ll arrive eventually. But like today, Waxwork put up preorders for a repress of the “Trick r’ Treat” score. When it went live, the store page said “Available Q2 2022” and of course people started complaining, because they feel like they’re entitled to have it NOW. I love what you said. If you need a record now, go to your local record shop and buy one. 5. I’m so glad that, as a small collector, I don’t suffer from the need to have every variant, so multiple variants don’t bother me. I just always hope to get one of the colored variants, and I hope that it sounds good, of course. Matt. You may have missed when I asked before, but the background music playing at the beginning of this video, and many of your others. Is it just a royalty free song? Because I’m addicted to it, and I’d love to have it in my library. What is it?
My issues are: scratchy paper sleeves, 1 in 3 record purchases are warped, $50 plus per record in Australia, paper sediment all over new records. We talk about it, what can we DO about it!
I agree communication is everything. I respect a label that sends an update explaining a further delay. Radio silence is what causes people to be angry.
My best sounding records in order: 1) Santana - Abraxas (MFSL One Step) 2) Nils Lofgren - Live ( Analogue Productions UHQR) 3) Led Zeppelin - II (Robert Ludwig Pressing) 4) Norah Jones - Come Away With Me (Analogue Productions) 5) Sonny Clark - Cool Strutting (Music Matters)
People just have to stop buying variants. There will be a point when a collector just can't keep up. The "money grab" turns me off... As for the long delivery delays...it's probably shipping problems which is affecting all products recently causing shortages and major delays. Furniture delivery is about a 6 month delay...a sign of the times. Mat is right, support local record stores buy in person
The limited and fake limited runs and multiple variants and any other collector-bait stuff is prevalent in basically every collecting community I'm a part of. While I do certainly look at the suppliers and think "what a transparent cash grab".... I also though look at the buyers who complain that they're being given too many things to buy as them basically saying "I have no self control and you're taking advantage of that." The thing is, at the end of the day, the suppliers are giving the collectors exactly what they want, stuff to collect, and it's up to the buyer to have the restraint to not just compulsively buy everything that is available. Whenever an album I want comes out in a bunch of different exclusives and variants I just buy the most basic and cheapest option out there. If I miss the drop, oh well, bummer, I can still listen to the music digitally. For that matter I've seen a few albums I wanted come out but ONLY as expensive collector items in fancy packaging with no regular boring cheap option and I just made the choice as a buyer to pass. I don't NEED to own that album on vinyl for $100+... so there is a "want" missing from my collection, big deal, is that really going to change my life? No.
I think the quality control issues go hand to hand with the pressing plants being behind and rushing the process to get records out. I think prices especially box sets are way to high for some of us. I listen to all my records but can’t afford some due to scalpers rising the prices
The waiting time for vinyl hadn’t really affected me until recently. I ordered an independent artist debut album & EP in April this year. They were upfront about the vinyl not shipping until the latter part of the year. I got a notification that my order had been ‘shipped’ in September. It’s now been over a month & my vinyl is still stuck in the U.S. It doesn’t help that other people I know, that live in the U.K, have received their order, I’m beginning to wonder where mine is? I of course don’t blame the artist , I know the situation for international postage is really bad at the moment. I’m just hoping I get it by the end of the year 🤞🏻
I've experienced long lead times for a couple years now. Sure the availability of the few pressing plants out there and demand is crazy. But it's still disappointing at times.
I completely agree with all your points, very well said and great points. I don’t mind waiting for a record due to pressing delays, it is what it is and I agree with you. IMO for the most part the label or artist communicates pretty well if there are delays. I’m pretty sure I had a bot experience the other day buying a limited album minutes after the band announced it, it sold out as I was trying to pay within 5 min of the sale opening
"Churn out pressings" that sums up the issue. There are only 2 manufacturers of record presses it would take a decade to make enough new presses to solve the problem.
Good video! All well made points. Right now I am not buying new releases, I only bought two this year because of all of these reasons. The vast majority of my purchases are used, VG+ or better, and if available at the store. So Covid really limited my ability to buy new to me records. This sent me to buying more targeted previous releases from online. That said, I have 97% of albums I want on vinyl or CD. I will point out that these issues are ubiquitous to any popular trend: from toys, to records, to clothes, to musical instruments. If its hot, its a pain in the ass to get.
Limited edition records seem to be limited in the USA, while the UK produces lots of them. Shipping cost is a deterrent from buying them. Some attractable releases are Elvis on 10" 45 rpm, ELO single on colored vinyl, records cut inside out, etc. I like these special editions and the UK seems to take the lead. Oh and Beach Boys on 10" 78 rpm.
Apart from the quality of records none of these issues impact me. I would also add that the records I buy are mostly pressed in Europe, and I've not really seen too much of a problem with the quality. That said, the recent album by Amigo The Devil was a US pressing and was fairly dreadful.
4. The problem lays at both ends of the transaction, if people are willing to spend a huge amount of money for a record, flipping will be a thing. If i miss out on a record i just get a cd or wait for a repress, cause if there is demand there will be suply. Ofcourse there are cases of old albums that have never been reissued, thats the only way i believe something has a higher value because there is no alternatives(reissues,represses) of having the album
Great video Matt. All very valid points. Not sure what the answer is, though. Corporate greed is one of the biggest issues in the world today. It was inevitable that it would hit the vinyl music industry. And it will ultimately end up killing it if it doesn’t stop. Soon we’ll be seeing corporation owned music stores popping up again if it continues on this track.
I only put out one version of my vinyl records. I pressed 300 of “Code Purple”, “Merry Go Round” and “Freak”. My latest record “Sunny Side” …. Is in the queue at the pressing plant and will only be an edition of 100.
I have to wonder how much relief it would bring to the pressing plants if they cut the RSD titles down significantly, or push for more CD releases. With an average of, what, 250 vinyl releases on any given RSD, some of which are multi-disc releases... At say 1,000 copies per release, that's minimum 250,000 records being pressed in a relatively short timeframe. And I imagine they take priority over other albums in the queue.
I think RSD has lost some luster and it can be revamped to not overwhelm plants with garbage but still be a special event. Can they hire me to consult?!
I really sick of artificial scracity. Take pre-orders for 3-4 months and then press all the pre-orders and an addition number to sell in stores. That will eliminate the bots. If 10,000 fans buy an album and 5,000 bots do, those 5,000 copies will have no resale value, because the 10,000 people that got their pre-orders don't need to buy an album now. The record label makes a lot of money, and the bot owners get screwed. Another thing I can't stand is record store day now: 1. RSD releases are NOT returnable. I've bought some pretty crappy pressings on RSD releases and the store won't take them back, because they're not allowed to return them. 2. The whole point to RSD was to get you shopping in your local record store. Well, the store is SO packed on RSD that the store owner wants you in to buy your records and wants you out as fast as possible to get the line moving. RSD doesn't help the store sell mechandise. At this point, I am more likely to patronize a store that DOESN'T participate in RSD. And QC is joke these days. I have switched back to buying CDs for the most part. Of the vinyl records I have bought this year, I have returned 90% of them. Two records I returned to Amazon so many times that they didn't have any copies left to send me. In 2020, my son really wanted Gorillaz - Demon Dayz on vinyl. I bought every copy in every Barnes and Noble within a 50 mile radius of my house, and returned every last one. Then I found out that VMP had a red vinyl pressing. I signed up to be alerted when the red pressing would be available again. I got an alert, and almost ordered it. But then I checked VMP subreddit and there tons of complaints of how bad the Demon Days pressing from VMP is. So, I just gave up. My son wanted to put a turntable in his bedroom. But now he's given up because of QC issues.
It’s just absurd, the number of variants. I think of an industry that does this better - sports cards. They announce a print run and then serial number each card so everyone knows how many there are and they DON’T EVER PRINT MORE afterwards. That’s it. Limited to 2,000 or whatever. If labels did this - it would not stop the bots - but it would at least make them more transparent. I mean, McCartney III just announced ANOTHER variant. WTF?!? The good thing is that I believe the industry will correct and fix itself soon because, like you said, the surge in vinyl interest has been huge and the industry needs to better learn how to deal with it. Good video. 👍
A fool and their money are soon parted. What has happened is that collectability has been driven by profitability and once emotive value becomes depressed, there will be a free-fall and wax will take a sharp hit. All those cool records will be stashed back up in the attic. Good luck in getting the fans back.
I may be one of the few who actually like the long pressing times. I buy decent amount of records (perhaps not as many as you!) and buy stuff if it's limited before I'm even ready to listen to it - I don't like having too many records queued up waiting to be listened to, it overwhelms me. So the long pressing times are kinda perfect for me. I can pull the trigger on a limited release or reissue that I'm after and forget about it, and when it arrives it arrives. I also enjoy the surprise of it. There's been times where I have had made multiple pre-orders all around the same time, on top of ordering records regularly, to the point where when a record shows up on my doorstep I have no idea which one it is. Sometimes, if it's been that long, I forget that I've ordered a record at all and have no recollection of what it could be until I open it up. It's like Christmas. Side note: for this reason, I don't like it when labels/distributors have their logo or sticker on the packaging...that spoils the surprise!
I can relate to overwhelming "to listen to" piles. There's also a weird subconscious "new is better than old" when it comes to records that come in, I'd rather listen to the one I just opened than one in my pile that I was excited about two weeks ago.
I agree with your point of view. The only thing I can say is I think #5 is kind of good. Not in collectors sense but it allows you to get a color you want. “Collectors” could get the color they want and stop worrying about Fomo just buy a vinyl.
The illusion of choice is nice, but ultimately I think it dillutes collectibility (which is the entire point of having anything but standard black) and also kinda bullies people into getting more copies than they anticipated.
Re: point 3- never believe any number given on a limited press. They are never real. That doesn't mean that there's magically always some copies floating around that can be used to replace every damaged order, but that the plant always tends to round up, and stores always tend to put less than what they receive online.
I absolutely agree that quality control is a huge problem. I too have found that it's getting to the point that the majority of the new records I buy, even expensive pressings, are warped. It's just not right to pay $40 and up for warped records.
If they're gonna increase the prices on records, they could at least give us better inner sleeves instead of those dreadful paper ones. Don't even get me started on warping (looking at you, VMP)
I feel like MOFI has a solution to bot buying. They release their upcoming release on the music direct catalog and the only way you can preorder is by calling music direct to place a pre-order. They typically sell out before hitting the website. I originally though this was a little bit elitist, but now starting to see that it helps cut down the bots from buying and allows collectors and “Mofi fans” the opportunity to buy the records
In regards to your first point. Yes I agree, it sucks, and there is no point in complaining. I am guilty of expressing my feelings on comments on Facebook. My biggest issue is collecting the money in advance. Labels could be lined up at pressing plants waiting for records to finish and announcing them closer to completion date. Why tell people a year in advance? For smaller labels/bands financially maybe they can’t do that but I’ve seen bigger stuff enjoying the free 12 month loan and absolutely zero risk on their investment. Hats off to them because people are eating it up.
The labels need the money to pay for the press though. Most plants make you pay half up front. Smaller labels don't always have the capital at hand, hence preorders.
@@TooManyRecords That’s assuming the label has absolutely no capital to fund the press on their own. Plenty of labels already fund pressings, even some smaller labels manage to do this. But why front the money when your customers are willing to do it for you, a year in advance. We are the only ones to blame, we wave our cash over our head, take my money!!
Great video. A few points is like to suggest (perhaps you'll have enough before long for another 5 sequel) 1. 180g vinyl needs to stop (or at least be limited). We are in the midst of an oil crisis. Vinyl is a product of oil production and until we find an alternative then we need to treat it as the finite resource it is. This means thinner vinyl. I'm not advocating a return to the 1973 oil crisis thinness that is one of the reasons red rose speedway sounded so poor on original. But a wise usage of 180g for very special editions would be a good idea. 2. Stop extending releases over multiple discs unnecessarily. Case in point - senjutsu from iron maiden is a triple (180g) vinyl. The album is 82 minutes long and legitimately a double CD. You know what else is longer? The White Album - a double. The order and integrity of the Senjutsu album would not have been compromised by keeping it to 2 vinyl discs replicating the CD. Bear in mind that iron maiden were a band regularly releasing 50min+ records in the 80s and these sounded great and, what's more, were released on thinner vinyl too. 3. Boring gatefold sleeves with plain inners on single LPs. Gatefold takes up more shelf space. If it's a single album and there is nothing special about the inner of a gatefold for heaven's sake consider just a single sleeve with the lyrics on the inner sleeve. And indeed vice versa it. The new Ed Sheeran does that right. Personally, I carefully slit my vinyl open to play it and retain the shrink wrap. This means that I have gatefolds I've never fully opened. 4. 45rpm vinyl albums. No - just no. This is an annoyance to far for me. I really like Red (Taylors version) but that's 4 45rpm discs. This method of producing a 130 minute collection is an egregious breaking of steps 1 and 2 as well. I don't think it's beyond the whit of man to release this much material as 3 33rpm records, each up to 45 minutes in length. So that's my twopenneth.
I have vinyl and most of it is not new. To listen to I just play it. To record and get minimal noise I run the vinyl in warm water in my kitchen sink. I play and record. Then I rewash in the sink to pick up the dirt that the wet record pulled from the grooves. The I dry with a paper towel and replace the vinyl in the sleeve. Doing this for years.
I hate it when a variant is released as a limited edition and after it sells out they add a slightly different variant also as a limited edition. Just do the full run with the first one and stop trying to create FOMO. I wish we saw more timed variant preorders. That would allow the fans to all get a copy instead of bots and still keep it somewhat limited.
The latest trend of having the same colour but in 'opaque' and 'translucent' is ridiculous. Just a way to add one more variant for the super fans or the FOMO collectors to buy
My biggest issue has been the heat, which is getting better now that fall is here. I had many, mostly box sets warp in shipping this summer. Box sets are most prone, because they often have a lot of space inside to move around.
variants aren't all about encouraging people to 'collect em all'. e.g. Japanese breakfast might just have various choices for people to pick one they like.
Limited editions and exclusives are downright infuriating and inane as they make customers and fans who don't live in that particular country or region where the exclusives are released in impossible to purchase thoes copies
What I don't understand is why bots aren't getting blocked by Captcha boxes. That tech has been around since at least as far back as 2010, and used to be used to stop even matters such as excessive posting on forums in too short a short space of time, which can foul up the forum servers. How the servers of those record companies aren't getting fouled up by use of bots by buyers goodness only knows.
Here's one. I backed 2 different projects going on two years ago. Granted one had to be recorded. The other one is a reissue where the dug out the master tapes, remixed them so the music is more equally balanced, asked fans for photos and stories and such. They even gave the masters as a perk for a high tier backer on the stipulation they don't remix for the purpose of publishing.. That said they are both seeing their press dates getting pushed back and back so that bigger names get priority. I joked with the bands that we may see them by Christmas 2022. Now a lot of it is COVID and supply chain issues I know. but still it's been 2 years. One of the two bands are working on even newer material already. It makes me wonder how King Gizzard is managing to pull off putting out as much as they do especially considering they've switched to no plastic packaging and recycled media. My guess is they are the onces that are a large contributor for long production time just because they are so dang popular and prolific. Just a theory kind of tongue in cheek.....maybe.
For me my biggest problem is price. I'm tired of how expensive vinyl is. I wanted to get the new Iron Maiden on vinyl and it was like $50-60! Ridiculous. Alchemist and Soul Assassin vinyl forget it, what a rip off. I'm not gonna pay those prices for a new vinyl. I got a wife and kids, I don't make lots of money, how do I explain to them paying that much money for music I could listen to for free on the internet or pay $10-15 for the CD, instead of taking my family out or buying them what they need. I can't! So I was getting into the hobby but it's pretty much priced me out of it. So now I only buy a couple vinyl a year, but it has to be less than $30, and am starting to go back to CDs instead. Also since we live in a capitalist society, and there is so much demand, why aren't there more pressing plants being opened to meet supply? Doesn't make sense to me. Anyways, good video!
I feel like the community when it comes to selling has struggled a bit at least for me today's my birthday and my weeks been rough im physically disabled I have cerebral palsy and vinyl and music in general is my absolute passion would anyone be interested in buying anything feel free and message me keep on spinning stay beautiful people peace
You're 100% on #2, the bubble burst scenario. To be honest, all of these issues are bubble burst scenarios and I know people don't want to believe it, but this is something that will eventually happen at this rate. Might take a few years but we're heading in that direction.
Only part I don’t totally agree with is about variants. No one is forcing anyone to buy every variant. If someone feels like they have to own every color of a record it’s not really the artist or labels fault. If they’re just pressing enough for the demand it seems more like a personal choice of which ones to purchase. With all the music streaming and stealing these days most artists only make real money from touring. It’s actually more annoying to me when there’s only one or two variants that sell out in an hour only to be listed on Discogs and eBay at an inflated price. I like having options and not having to pay flippers for something that just came out.
Got a record of Billy Idol brand new and only 1 out of 4 songs on side 1 doesnt skip. Side 2 is good. On the varient side i seen so many people buy Taylor's new album and buy all the varients just so they can make 3 different albums with 3 different colors. Which is a cool idea but wish her fan site would have thought of it first.
yeah too many variants. I do like it when there are a few and each one has a different # of pressings, but more than 4 for original pressings and especially reissues is too much imo.
There is a certain rap group that I've seen releasing their 4-track cassette basement demo recordings on 180g vinyl. I can understand wanting a certain project on vinyl but if it was trash quality when you recorded and originally released it 30 years ago, why put it on the more expensive vinyl option intended for higher quality that your project never had. Simply to get an extra 5-10$ from your fans...
Solution to number 1, instead of opening a record store you need to open a record plant! Agree bots and flippers are the scum of the universe especially around RSD, QC sucks. I believe in basic black. With that being said I will buy a color variant if that is the only available choice. While I don’t go after multiple variants I will by a reissue or OG. Guilty pleasure, I collect multiple copies of the Beatles White album ala the Chang collection.
Great Video. A couple thoughts: We are not in an era of "uprecidented demand" for vinyl. Quite the opposite. There is a growing and excited community for sure. The demand now though is a fraction of where it was for many years, ending with the arrival of CDs. The manufacturing capacity from that era was largely dismantled, so it feels like we are starting from ground zero. Second thought is that the current resurgence of interest in vinyl is a great problem to have. Thanks again for a great discussion! Bob Hart
1 - Definitely the only solution to this is to have more plants made to meet the demand. This will take time, of course, but I think it's feasible. The silver lining is that a new plant can mean new and better ways to make records. Though another issue that has come up is supply chain and specifically for getting the key raw material, polyvinyl chloride. But hopefully, necessity can be once again the mother of invention. 2 - I've noticed this a few times myself and again, this may be where the new plants can come in handy. But then again, there have been QC issues in the past. Going back to the polyvinyl chloride, this is tied to the issue of acquiring oil. In fact, the same occurred in the 1970s and, as a result, records were made very very flimsy (I think as low as 80grams) and thus reducing the sound quality. In fact, it was not uncommon to have a newly minted record skip on the first play (and I even remember this happening with Pink Floyd's A Momentary Lapse of Reason when it came out in 1987). But as of now, I think the purse will be the corrector: if a plant does a poor job, do business elsewhere. This has happened with several labels. Dream Catalogue I know had to change plants a number of times due to bad QC. 3 - To be fair, sometimes it's hard to gauge what is a reasonable amount for supply. After all, you could have records that don't sell at all and you are stuck with this inventory that you will never be able to sell. So it's often a matter of caution to do these initial small-scale runs. If it turns out to be successful or there's an opportunity to add something new, then another run is made. Granted, I believe in keeping your word. Thus if you have a limited run in a particular way, keep it that way and don't do a "second limited run" on top of it. 4 - This explains a lot of why records (or any limited physical media) sell out quickly. I do think have an open-ended preorder run will help (Geometric Lullaby has done this a few times to great success). 5 - I think it's a matter of taste. Personally, I don't need many or all the variants to be satisfied as a listener. As something of a music maker myself, I only want to put out the variants that make sense for whatever I make. For instance. in addition to standard black, I would want one that encapsulates the mood or vibe of the work (that can be the limited edition one) and one (maybe two) that is in line with the artwork. So let's say I had an album with artwork that is mostly black and white and blue/dark purple. It would *not* make sense to have a variant be of neon orange, hot pink, mellow yellow as there is probably nothing about the album that would justify those colour variants. Those are my thoughts for now. I'm sure there will be more =D
I'm glad Geometric Lulllaby moved to that model, some of their stuff was ridiculously hard to get and their hit ratio of great albums is super high. Thanks for the thoughtful comment.
One fix for this would be to have the multiple variations but limit each one more than the last. Green splatter - 100 Black & white - 250 Red - 500 etc. That way each variation is in its own special. They make money, we get opportunity to get the most collectible version and be excited if we can get the #1 most limited version. Idk…
Great video man but I’d like to say that I think your last point fails to fully apply to “DeRapWinkel” in the context you applied it to. They often keep their variants a similar or even the same price and I respect that. I can say they are guilty of producing a huge amount of variants on occasion but I do like a lot about their system. They are also usually packaged quite well. I agree with every other point made though 👍
As much as I love colored vinyl & picture discs, 90% of the time there are defects. Quality control has gone out the window. My advice is to stick with 180 gram.
The continue use of paper inner sleeves for new releases. Every label should be on board with anti-static sleeves while photos/lyrics/liner notes & additional artwork should just be an insert, not a sleeve itself. For the price they are charging they can afford it.
AGREED
I just said this in another forum. I pre-ordered the new Steely Dan album ( a Double) and the new Nightfly Live by Donald Fagen...both came with Printed graphic Paper Sleeves which split during shipping due to labels not removing records even when requesting. I know I'm not alone on those requests. Paper sleeves have GOT TO GO. Enough. It's bad for the records, the often if not always split during shipping and at current costs - it's not right. Same with removing them ...often if its not the inner sleeve splitting, it's the OUTER COVER. Use the right mailer, remove them (many labels are shifting to no shrink wrap...thank you!) so this shouldn't be a problem.
Gatefold does the same thing, without the need of an extra insert
Agreed 100%!
I call those “sandpaper sleeves” and wish the phrase would catch on so they would disappear.
My biggest issue - is the cost of vinyl it is just starting to get out of hand - what they are now charging for regular releases, double album, box sets....I have to really pick & choose because of the cost is just getting out of hand.
Yeah the costs are rising due to supply chain issues AND in some cases greed.
Absolutely agree. I'm used to taking a 'punt' on releases and new artists. Over the years, I've discovered so many great artists this way. Struggling to justify doing this ongoing
I think the use of vinyl with splatter colors have more audio problems than the the old school black vinyl. I remember an album I owned from the 50's was clear red. Did not seem to last as long.
@@egold1006 Unfortunately that's misinformation. In the 50s, they hadn't figured out how to do colored vinyl properly. I suggest you check this out: czcams.com/video/2yzbO8aZNJE/video.html
@@TooManyRecords I own a 50's Dave Brubeck record on transparent red vinyl.
The reason for the increase in 'limited variants' is simple. With the vast majority of people listening to music via streaming, getting people to buy multiple variants increases physical sales, which the record companies get a larger percentage of. If we're all honest, we only need one copy of a record to actually listen to (and the variant really doesn't matter), but if you get even a small percentage of the physical media consumers to buy more than one copy (out of either fan loyalty or due to FOMO), then it works for them.
Taylor Swift fans, for example, do not need 8 versions of Folklore but there's no doubt that some fans will have bought them all. That means the record company has got 8 times as much money from one customer than they would have if they just released the same album across the board.
I also think this problem is exacerbated by pre ordering. We all play this 'which variant should I buy' game on albums that we haven't even heard. An example that comes to mind is the new Lorde album. I paid extra on a limited variant pre order compared to the standard version, and when the record came out I didn't even enjoy it that much.
I actually think this trend is the biggest threat to causing the vinyl bubble to burst. From reading about the baseball cards collapse, a big factor of that was the increased use of increasingly ridiculous ways of adding collectability until people just stopped caring. Same thing could easily happen with vinyl. Vinyl is a more expensive and less accessible method of music consumption compared to streaming, and when you have a consumer base that chooses this but is getting taking taken advantage of, people are just going to start using the easier method.
Yes. Stop the damn variants! (I don't by new, so doesn't effect me one bit.) How is there too much demand when it seems that everything is printed in limited quantities? What's going on with the supply chain is much larger than just record collecting.
Some great points made here. The thing I have a bit of an issue with at the moment is when I buy a brand new double album and the 2 records are put into a single album sleeve. They should be put into gatefold sleeves. I really don't like having to slide 2 albums into one sleeve thus running the risk of scratching the vinyl. You would think for the amount of money we pay for vinyl these days they'd give you a nice gatefold sleeve for a double album. It's something that seems to be occurring quite a lot now and it bugs me. And don't get me started on off centre pressings, my biggest pet hate. Grrrr! 😠
Thank you for succinctly stating what many collectors have been feeling. Quality remains the biggest issue. Especially in Australia where new releases from PJ or Dylan are commanding $80. You get over the cost hurdle only to buy a badly warped record. Getting close to giving up on vinyl.
Don't give up! We just all need to figure out a good way forward.
Another great TMR vid! 1) long lead times don’t really bother me cause I get it. 2) quality control falling off a cliff has in fact been quite disheartening as a vinyl enthusiast as of late cause I feel like I’m playing Russian roulette with every new record I buy. 3) this one has honestly really been bugging me lately. I’ll jump on a new release drop that I’m really excited about, it’ll sell out quick, and just a couple hours later, another arguably cooler variant drops (or worse, they just add more stock of the supposedly limited variant I bought) and I feel silly for pulling the trigger so fast. 4) botting is the bane of our existence as vinyl collectors. Period. 5) see three lol.
pretty much nailed it Tony
Problems number 3 and 4 have been issues with the David Bowie estate and their last box set releases. First came the box set called Brilliant Live Adventures. A box set of live recordings from the 1990's. They decided to release each title individually with one coming every 6 weeks or so. This meant buyers had to pay shipping on each title individually which added up to quite a bit. Then you found out that the box to hold all of the records had to be purchased separately... an empty box! and it cost around $30!
The first discs were sold with no problems but then the bot issue popped up with the final titles and buyers who had gone through the order process were told a mistake had been made and your order could not be completed. There was so much complaining that the estate sent apology emails and promised to press more copies soon. All you had to do was let them know which titles you were interested in and they would contact you with more information. That was in March. I haven't heard anything since.
The next fiasco was when the Bowie estate announced the fifth installment of their Era boxes coming at the end of November. They have been releasing box sets of Bowie's studio albums divided by era... the Ziggy era box... the Berlin trilogy box... the Let's Dance/80's box... etc. Each box was priced at about $250 and included a few bonus discs. This fifth era is the 1990's to 2001 is 18 discs! Five of them are studio albums and the rest are filler "bonus" material. They priced this bloated box at $400! One of the albums in this set is a previously unreleased project called TOY. A bootleg of Toy has been available for many years now but to make matters worse Toy is getting its own box release in January. Why include it in this box? Why include four discs of alternate takes and demos? Why not trim this fat and reduce the price? I've been a Bowie fan since I was a teen in 1971 and I feel taken advantage of by these money grubbing corporate suits.
Artists and band that seem to just refuse to put albums out on vinyl either for the first time or reissue, or even anniversary editions that include demos and outtakes (cough cough Tool Dolly Parton), thus leaving tons of money on the table while people are spending crazy amounts on used original, reissues, and bootlegs. That one is the case when it comes to video game soundtracks.
Unless it's an audiophile company like MFSL or Analogue Productions, even VMP, I'd say more than half of the time you don't get what you pay for when record labels reissue their old albums themselves. Take the Doors reissues from Rhino, and Capital's release of Pet Sounds. Analogue Productions used the original master tapes, got the best people to do the job, in the case of Pet Sounds a totally new Stereo mix, and pressed at the best plants with premium packaging inside and out. Meanwhile the big labels just use digital transfers or just a cd mix, pressed at a plant that doesn't have quality in mind, and choose the cheaper packing option that includes the sandpaper sleeve the record gets put in
Poor vinyl quality is a direct result of 2 things…. Not enough manufacturing resources and not enough quality people to perform the work. I wager many albums are pressed on equipment devoid of the proper preventative maintenance and these pressings are performed by low skilled staff.
That said - there ARE pressing houses that demand specific quality control in conjunction with the label requesting the press - three rules of manufacturing “cheap - quick - quality” but you can only ever choose 2. Want quick and quality - gonna cost you. Want quality & cheap ? Gonna take time. Want cheap and quick….. you get the point.
Great video and great thoughts.
I don’t buy ‘forced collectibles’ I will collect stuff from 80s on back where the market is well established.
I think I'm going to stop preordering records that are likely to be available in stores as they don't seem to be getting sent out to customers for 1-3 weeks after the drop date but the stores get them on time...it causes me emotional pain when i go to my local shop and they have the record i bought 5 months in advance for weeks and mine still hasn't shipped lol. I'm seeking therapy for this 😀
You pre order folks are what company's love.ive never ore ordered anything. Music,games etc. It always works out that I just never saw a need to lay money down 10 months in advance. That's the kind of thing I'd do for a friend's company or start up as a favor, not to these big corporations. Pre ordering ruined every consumer good.it wasn't really a thing when I was a kid.you waited for release, and you got the cd,game,tape cassette,book.
@@ddub1253 Sorry mate, with the limited nature of many record releases you have to preorder if you want it. And with the disastrous lead times this has exacerbated the issue.
I'm still waiting on my preordered copy of No More Tears! The delivery/release date just keeps slipping, and slipping and slipping.
@@matepoon I canceled my Amazon order because got email it wasn't coming until November, so ordered from Ozzy site and got in like a week
@@matepoon yea that sucks.but I'll bet when it just gets released, I'll be able to buy it
1. the pressing plants dont have to press the entire run before shipping they can take them as they come off the press and ship them as they come off the press that in fact i think is where the saying "hot off the press" comes from they dont allow them to cool before shipping.
they can also ship them direct to collectors via the postal system rather than shipping the entire run to a distribution hub it is more expensive and good collectors are willing to pay more for faster shipping even more yet to have it made in their country so they can ship without involving international travel, customs and even covid disinfection.
if it just the songs they want they could have digital downloadable copies.
no but your complaining may influence them into changing their systems to support very short runs, "hot off the press" and even downloads
2. non fill can be solved maybe by refrigerating the molds during pressing to cool them faster.
3. just like olive oil the virgin or first pressing is always the best.
just like olive oil where after the mechanical pressing they then use chemicals to extract more oil causes it to not taste or texture as nicely the molds on the presses tend to wear out.
if anyone has done ceramics knows as each object is cast the details whether hair or lips or undulations in clothing are not as deep or curvy the same for the grooves maybe the groove walls would chip or flatten so a skip may happen and require more tracking force or a change in the anti skate and such
another way they can meet the demands is to press black vinyl and print standard plain sleeves and ship them out first then ship ship out. replacement sleeves and the other accessories separately so those who want the music can get the music now.
it is like buying an iphone and all you get is the phone now and in 2 or 3 weeks you get a a package containing the accessories.
or buying a new car and going back to the dealer to get the jack and spare tire.
4. why not use captchas to deal with the bots?
limit how many at a time say limit 1 per customer.
I have had the worst quality control in the UK, £30 will get you a noisy, warped, filthy and unbalanced pressing, often times im having to really give them a damn good clean before they are accepted, I'm now starting to take albums back that aren't up to scratch.
I have noticed this. British vinyl clicks.
Too many variants & Too many limited editions are making a mockery of the vinyl reissue market these days. Just reissue a release & do a special edition if necessary.
It's getting to be a bit much.
Limited editions like the ATMP Uber box are a joke. Crazy prices.
@@continentalgin i thought that about the GNR box too
All excellent points that I've discussed with others in our niche community. Hoping the industry can get a handle on this. Great video. 🤙🏽
Having spent a good chunk of this year working for a vinyl distributor, I can tell you that the entire industry is struggling to find a solution for lead times. No one is safe, and there are no signs that things will let up. It's a maelstrom of the pandemic and skyrocketing demand. You could have submitted a project in June and still be stuck waiting on test pressings. As for a new plant, there is definitely a ton of interest to open one, but the overhead in labor and resources, coupled with the very real effect that climate is having on production, are making it difficult. QC at plants suffers because labels are hounded by buyers about records, and they in turn have to hound the plants, who have to work overtime and put out multiple fires at once. The pre-order game is favored by some labels and artists because they can recoup right away, but again, because of the explosion in demand for product, this creates long delays, and often, the pre-order has likely not yet been pressed before it has gone up, and the label is doing the sale to test the waters and gauge how big of a pressing to order. Many shrug and say nothing can be done, but many are also pointing out that this helps nobody.
I don't have the answer, but I think keeping the conversation going is important.
Fantastic points and I completely agree. I'm 100% done with pre-orders. The madness won't stop until we as consumers pipe in and put a stop to it.
@@FotogInkArt Pre-orders are fine as long as they only charge you AFTER they ship!!!
The different versions, I don't see them as a problem. They give opinions. It's a good thing. I got my Folklore version in colored vinyl and Tina Turner's Foreign Affair in black. Perfectly happy with them.
Limited edition sucks.
Limited vinyl release of 25 ? Did I actually hear that ? Thats just stupid.
Collecters suck. Music fans are being made to pay for collecters stupid greed.
You have good points here. The biggest problem is that you don't have enough time to listen records.
Ha, did you watch this video: czcams.com/video/05BIUGOFWLQ/video.html
#3 and especially #5. Soon we will have 6 month anniversary pressings. We already kinda do in a way - deluxe end of year editions aren't uncommon.
The large number of variants for a release really irritates me. Complete overkill and holds up pressing plants that could be pressing other releases instead of 9 variants of the same record
Though i only collect CD's, which don't have pressing problems, but because vinyl does have production delays the CD release gets delayed too. Predictably they want them both to be released on the same date.
QC is probably the most persistent problem I have found, and like you said, in the 70's we did not have that problem, it seems like "Limited Editions" are very common and find it annoying, I usually don't buy them
Ive had a lot of records come in with a hard skip, covers torn. Your NM coming in VG+ 😭
I've had several pre-orders I placed in the UK over the past couple of months. After receiving multiple delay notifications, I decided to cancel those pre-orders. Instead, I re-ordered those records from a shop in Europe. The shop I order from is less than 9 hours away from the pressing planet. In most cases, I tend to receive my order a few weeks in advance by side-stepping the UK altogether.
Love the topic. I seriously think if artists/labels cut back on the variants, you instantly improve the situation for the other problems you mention. How much did all those McCartney III and Taylor Swift variants back up those plants?
I know we've been told otherwise, but I have been specifically mentioning those titles for ages now. I totes agree. Meanwhile I picked up a mint TUG OF WAR at the resale shop for $5.00 . Great album, a return to form for mac and value is bupkiss according to Discogs. WTF ? Sanity is out the window. No way I'm paying 100$ cuz Jack White label pressed a version. NOPE.
Couldnt agree more. Look at the weeknd, adele, billie eillish and taylor swift. Those 4 artists no doubt are choking the plants with the numerous variants 3 of them for the same bloody album. Honestly it should be limited to 2 or 3 per album. One standard, one colour variant and one deluxe thats it
The price of a lp record in 1966 cost about $5.95. Today, with inflation, you are looking at $80.99 for the same record. I only need the records i purchased in the 60's and 70's which were recorded with the utmost fidelity at the time. One record which was pressed in 1960, is so good ,there are none today i have heard of which can surpass it for sound reproduction.
Disagree with your assertion about sound quality, as many ‘70s records were pressed on crap vinyl and the audiophile releases today are industry standards, but I appreciate the perspective on record cost. And people complain about $60 Analogue Productions LPs - that’s still cheap by comparison
@@therealdonelaitis There is sound quality on records and there is sound recording quality. One of the best labels that utilised the state of the art recording studios was Command Records.
Some of their albums were recorded on 35 MM Magnetic Film instead of tape. The result was breathtaking. Also, the quality of the vinyl pressings were top class. The Japanese label King Records made available their Super Dynamic Sound series in the 60's Again superb recordings . Then there was Decca phase 4 records. and the list goes on.
Great video Matt ! I must have been lucky as I’ve not had too many quality issues recently. One that does get me is off centre pressings. Aaaargh ! I agree about all the variants too. Surely isn’t that just clogging up the plants and adding to the supply problem.
Off center pressings are rough too.
Entry #5 -too many variants- is causing #3 -making labels too greedy- which is causing #1 -clogging pressing plants- impacting quality in #2
Is all related to the market responding favorably to the overwhelming offering. Eventually the bubble will burst
So far I've been lucky when it comes to brand new records not having any issues.
All these many variants of one album, plus some of the useless releases like picture discs that come out on RSD I think are what is taking up time in pressing plants
Making some great points Matt! Number 3 is particularly egregious. I was super annoyed with the release of the new Chvrches album Screen Violence (amazing record). Several LE variants were drip fed out by the label. Obviously pre-planned. It would have been much fairer had the label announced all variants of the album up front and let fans and collectors pick out what they wanted. And don't get me started on the deluxe editions! Grrrr!
it's insulting.
Couldn't agree more. Quality over quantity, IMO.
Correct 👍🏼
As somebody who loves movie soundtracks and Mondo, it’s really frustrating having bots scoop up limited versions so quick. Like the Dune sketchbooks album that sold out in like 5 minutes this week.
Like you said there should be enough where everyone can at least get a standard copy.
I assure you...you'll see that DUNE again. Unless it tanks at the box office, and it's not likely. I'm more interested in small horror or syfy that wont see huge pushes ,unlike the Zimmer stuff. I didn't even try to get that one. A year ago I would have.
Hi Matt, good video and I agree that a lot of of these problems are connected and could bring about a crash for vinyl if they aren't dealt with. Coincidentally, I'm studying Music Business and I'm sure that the last thing you mentioned would be seen as a Business Model, a way of getting consumers to part with their cash. Unfortunately, that sort of cynical ploy isn't going to go away because there will always be people who will buy those varients and deluxe editions, humans react this way to FOMO and the only way to stop it is for people to choose to change themselves and learn to exercise better self control which is difficult but very possible.
That's true, it's not all on the industry, it's on us as well. I'm just as guilty of falling for FOMO.
@@TooManyRecords it is human psychology and the Industry will take advantage of that. But if we take responsibility for our emotions, thoughts and actions then we can change our behaviour and beliefs. Most people never have come to understand these things about themselves. So yeah it is on both sides.
11:05 - Led Zeppelin did this 10 years before Taylor Swift was born with their final album 'In Through the Out Door' in 1979 with 6 different variants of cover art - and the album was in brown paper packaging so you did not know which version you were getting. It helped them sell more of what was arguably their worst album.
All of these. Yes. Number 5 speaks to me in particular. There are a few bands (New Found Glory, Four Year Strong) that have been releasing their albums and then 1 year later do a deluxe version with a few extra songs. If I supported you immediately, it feels weird. Do I sell my OG copy? Do I keep both? Half the time it has alternate artwork I don't like as much, it's weird.
Yep, I don't know how bands don't realize this will piss fans off.
The artwork for the new NFG deluxe is better than the original for once but I hear you lol
I don't mind the wait or multiple variants. In Australia (my experience at least) we are typically lucky to get an indie exclusive, unless you pay some ridiculous price for shipping and get something different from overseas. Most times I will get a variant if it looks cool, or just the standard if I really want that album.
What really upsets me is the limited runs that make it impossible to get at least a standard issue and the poor quality. I returned an album only to get a replacement that skipped in the exact same spot... so now I just deal with it for the sake of having a copy.
The biggest issue is the fact that there is only one lacquer plant left. This wasn't even mentioned, but with the Apollo fire, we're going to be at a point where the lack of lacquers for masters will force the cost of records up.
It's ridiculous to see how something that many of us are passionate about is falling (or rather fell) into the hands of absurd "collecting". Color variants, limited editions ... and what is really important, I mean, enjoying having an LP, putting it on your turntable and enjoying every second of listening? The're people right now who are feeding that absurd practice of having 12 variants of an LP and not even putting them on or enjoying them. Excellent video Too Many Records as always and putting on the table the problems that are putting Vinyl in check at the moment.
Wow did no one really comment on this for a year? There have been many good thoughts here, but this one's my favorite.
To me one of the biggest issues is how out of the loop the average collector is. I really wish people were more generally aware and educated on what actually goes into making records, what the current situation is and why the situation is what it is. I understand people are excited and want the record they are excited for, but it is almost like a 2nd full time job constantly answering messages like “why haven’t I received my record yet” or “any updates?” when the records don’t even exist yet due to pressing plant delays. If the label has social media, follow it for updates and refer to that! Especially if it’s a small label with literally a whopping team of 1 who will have to take the time to field these easily answered questions :)
TRUTH
Well when folks buy records from your company I assume, you are charging their credit cards rights on the spot? if you are THAT is wrong!!! They should not be charge until you SHIP!! But then again if folks are foolish enough to let YOU use their money for months on end, ------ I guess I don't blame you. There's a sucker born every minute!!
@@Tunz909 you’re gonna get a lot less cool records from smaller labels out there with that attitude. If that’s really how you feel then maybe you’re better off just sticking to whatever mass market pressings you can find at Walmart and Amazon.
@@MrRom92DAW "get a lot less cool records" what the heck are you talking about? Do you charge folks before you ship? Then don't get upset when you have to respond to your customers who patronize your business with questions as to where their product is that they bought from you!!LOL Maybe you need to get into another line of work! Why don't you buy a parking lot where all you have to do is stick out your hand and folks give you money and you do not have to do anything all day long!!!
@@Tunz909 ahhh, says the CZcams comment troll that’s made exactly… let me guess, a grand total of zero records? Thanks for your worthless opinion!
All of these reasons have been getting to me over my past 4 ish years of record collecting and I’m probably going to be taking a little break until I at least see costs lower slightly and quality control improve.
For me :
1 Not a problem. I’ll get it eventually
2 Agree. Ac/dc’s reissues are a joke
3 Agree with you. Standard black edition is
fine with me.
4 Not an issue for me , but maybe collectors
could order a copy in a physical record
store , in person and collect/pay upon
arrival ? Only for those über-special ones.
5 That’s evil/greedy. Depeche mode did that
in the 80’s and got massive critisism and
backlash , so they took it down to a
minimum.
Good video.
Thanks Roger!
1. My biggest vinyl collecting pet peeve is people complaining about long shipping times. Maybe it’s because I’m just patient and know it’ll arrive eventually. But like today, Waxwork put up preorders for a repress of the “Trick r’ Treat” score. When it went live, the store page said “Available Q2 2022” and of course people started complaining, because they feel like they’re entitled to have it NOW. I love what you said. If you need a record now, go to your local record shop and buy one.
5. I’m so glad that, as a small collector, I don’t suffer from the need to have every variant, so multiple variants don’t bother me. I just always hope to get one of the colored variants, and I hope that it sounds good, of course.
Matt. You may have missed when I asked before, but the background music playing at the beginning of this video, and many of your others. Is it just a royalty free song? Because I’m addicted to it, and I’d love to have it in my library. What is it?
Royalty free music! It's called City Beats Vol 2.
@@TooManyRecords Found it! Thanks!
Good points, Matt. 🤘 We love your videos.
omg can i have your autograph
Only if we can have yours. 🤩
Very different 5 problems from the ones that had me move to CD’s in the late 80’s. Hopefully a lot of this stuff gets worked out soon.
What were your 5 problems?
My issues are: scratchy paper sleeves, 1 in 3 record purchases are warped, $50 plus per record in Australia, paper sediment all over new records. We talk about it, what can we DO about it!
I don't mind having to wait, but I don't like when labels don't communicate. HHV does it great imo, by communicating that the vinyl has been delayed
I agree communication is everything. I respect a label that sends an update explaining a further delay. Radio silence is what causes people to be angry.
My best sounding records in order:
1) Santana - Abraxas (MFSL One Step)
2) Nils Lofgren - Live ( Analogue Productions UHQR)
3) Led Zeppelin - II (Robert Ludwig Pressing)
4) Norah Jones - Come Away With Me (Analogue Productions)
5) Sonny Clark - Cool Strutting (Music Matters)
People just have to stop buying variants. There will be a point when a collector just can't keep up. The "money grab" turns me off...
As for the long delivery delays...it's probably shipping problems which is affecting all products recently causing shortages and major delays. Furniture delivery is about a 6 month delay...a sign of the times. Mat is right, support local record stores buy in person
The limited and fake limited runs and multiple variants and any other collector-bait stuff is prevalent in basically every collecting community I'm a part of. While I do certainly look at the suppliers and think "what a transparent cash grab".... I also though look at the buyers who complain that they're being given too many things to buy as them basically saying "I have no self control and you're taking advantage of that." The thing is, at the end of the day, the suppliers are giving the collectors exactly what they want, stuff to collect, and it's up to the buyer to have the restraint to not just compulsively buy everything that is available. Whenever an album I want comes out in a bunch of different exclusives and variants I just buy the most basic and cheapest option out there. If I miss the drop, oh well, bummer, I can still listen to the music digitally. For that matter I've seen a few albums I wanted come out but ONLY as expensive collector items in fancy packaging with no regular boring cheap option and I just made the choice as a buyer to pass. I don't NEED to own that album on vinyl for $100+... so there is a "want" missing from my collection, big deal, is that really going to change my life? No.
I think the quality control issues go hand to hand with the pressing plants being behind and rushing the process to get records out. I think prices especially box sets are way to high for some of us. I listen to all my records but can’t afford some due to scalpers rising the prices
My issue with pre-order are sellers that take your cash straight away rather than when they send the record out. Particularly an eBay issue.
The waiting time for vinyl hadn’t really affected me until recently. I ordered an independent artist debut album & EP in April this year. They were upfront about the vinyl not shipping until the latter part of the year. I got a notification that my order had been ‘shipped’ in September. It’s now been over a month & my vinyl is still stuck in the U.S. It doesn’t help that other people I know, that live in the U.K, have received their order, I’m beginning to wonder where mine is?
I of course don’t blame the artist , I know the situation for international postage is really bad at the moment. I’m just hoping I get it by the end of the year 🤞🏻
I've experienced long lead times for a couple years now. Sure the availability of the few pressing plants out there and demand is crazy. But it's still disappointing at times.
Yeah but it's only getting worse. This year is unprecedented
I completely agree with all your points, very well said and great points. I don’t mind waiting for a record due to pressing delays, it is what it is and I agree with you. IMO for the most part the label or artist communicates pretty well if there are delays. I’m pretty sure I had a bot experience the other day buying a limited album minutes after the band announced it, it sold out as I was trying to pay within 5 min of the sale opening
"Churn out pressings" that sums up the issue. There are only 2 manufacturers of record presses it would take a decade to make enough new presses to solve the problem.
Good video! All well made points. Right now I am not buying new releases, I only bought two this year because of all of these reasons. The vast majority of my purchases are used, VG+ or better, and if available at the store. So Covid really limited my ability to buy new to me records.
This sent me to buying more targeted previous releases from online. That said, I have 97% of albums I want on vinyl or CD. I will point out that these issues are ubiquitous to any popular trend: from toys, to records, to clothes, to musical instruments. If its hot, its a pain in the ass to get.
Limited edition records seem to be limited in the USA, while the UK produces lots of them. Shipping cost is a deterrent from buying them. Some attractable releases are Elvis on 10" 45 rpm, ELO single on colored vinyl, records cut inside out, etc. I like these special editions and the UK seems to take the lead. Oh and Beach Boys on 10" 78 rpm.
Apart from the quality of records none of these issues impact me. I would also add that the records I buy are mostly pressed in Europe, and I've not really seen too much of a problem with the quality. That said, the recent album by Amigo The Devil was a US pressing and was fairly dreadful.
4. The problem lays at both ends of the transaction, if people are willing to spend a huge amount of money for a record, flipping will be a thing. If i miss out on a record i just get a cd or wait for a repress, cause if there is demand there will be suply. Ofcourse there are cases of old albums that have never been reissued, thats the only way i believe something has a higher value because there is no alternatives(reissues,represses) of having the album
Great video Matt. All very valid points. Not sure what the answer is, though. Corporate greed is one of the biggest issues in the world today. It was inevitable that it would hit the vinyl music industry. And it will ultimately end up killing it if it doesn’t stop. Soon we’ll be seeing corporation owned music stores popping up again if it continues on this track.
I only put out one version of my vinyl records. I pressed 300 of “Code Purple”, “Merry Go Round” and “Freak”. My latest record “Sunny Side” …. Is in the queue at the pressing plant and will only be an edition of 100.
I have to wonder how much relief it would bring to the pressing plants if they cut the RSD titles down significantly, or push for more CD releases. With an average of, what, 250 vinyl releases on any given RSD, some of which are multi-disc releases... At say 1,000 copies per release, that's minimum 250,000 records being pressed in a relatively short timeframe. And I imagine they take priority over other albums in the queue.
I think RSD has lost some luster and it can be revamped to not overwhelm plants with garbage but still be a special event. Can they hire me to consult?!
I really sick of artificial scracity. Take pre-orders for 3-4 months and then press all the pre-orders and an addition number to sell in stores. That will eliminate the bots. If 10,000 fans buy an album and 5,000 bots do, those 5,000 copies will have no resale value, because the 10,000 people that got their pre-orders don't need to buy an album now. The record label makes a lot of money, and the bot owners get screwed.
Another thing I can't stand is record store day now:
1. RSD releases are NOT returnable. I've bought some pretty crappy pressings on RSD releases and the store won't take them back, because they're not allowed to return them.
2. The whole point to RSD was to get you shopping in your local record store. Well, the store is SO packed on RSD that the store owner wants you in to buy your records and wants you out as fast as possible to get the line moving. RSD doesn't help the store sell mechandise. At this point, I am more likely to patronize a store that DOESN'T participate in RSD.
And QC is joke these days. I have switched back to buying CDs for the most part. Of the vinyl records I have bought this year, I have returned 90% of them. Two records I returned to Amazon so many times that they didn't have any copies left to send me. In 2020, my son really wanted Gorillaz - Demon Dayz on vinyl. I bought every copy in every Barnes and Noble within a 50 mile radius of my house, and returned every last one. Then I found out that VMP had a red vinyl pressing. I signed up to be alerted when the red pressing would be available again. I got an alert, and almost ordered it. But then I checked VMP subreddit and there tons of complaints of how bad the Demon Days pressing from VMP is. So, I just gave up. My son wanted to put a turntable in his bedroom. But now he's given up because of QC issues.
It’s just absurd, the number of variants. I think of an industry that does this better - sports cards. They announce a print run and then serial number each card so everyone knows how many there are and they DON’T EVER PRINT MORE afterwards. That’s it. Limited to 2,000 or whatever. If labels did this - it would not stop the bots - but it would at least make them more transparent. I mean, McCartney III just announced ANOTHER variant. WTF?!? The good thing is that I believe the industry will correct and fix itself soon because, like you said, the surge in vinyl interest has been huge and the industry needs to better learn how to deal with it. Good video. 👍
A fool and their money are soon parted. What has happened is that collectability has been driven by profitability and once emotive value becomes depressed, there will be a free-fall and wax will take a sharp hit. All those cool records will be stashed back up in the attic. Good luck in getting the fans back.
I may be one of the few who actually like the long pressing times. I buy decent amount of records (perhaps not as many as you!) and buy stuff if it's limited before I'm even ready to listen to it - I don't like having too many records queued up waiting to be listened to, it overwhelms me. So the long pressing times are kinda perfect for me. I can pull the trigger on a limited release or reissue that I'm after and forget about it, and when it arrives it arrives. I also enjoy the surprise of it. There's been times where I have had made multiple pre-orders all around the same time, on top of ordering records regularly, to the point where when a record shows up on my doorstep I have no idea which one it is. Sometimes, if it's been that long, I forget that I've ordered a record at all and have no recollection of what it could be until I open it up. It's like Christmas. Side note: for this reason, I don't like it when labels/distributors have their logo or sticker on the packaging...that spoils the surprise!
I can relate to overwhelming "to listen to" piles. There's also a weird subconscious "new is better than old" when it comes to records that come in, I'd rather listen to the one I just opened than one in my pile that I was excited about two weeks ago.
@@TooManyRecords Yeah, I get like that too. As a result, I've now dedicated Saturday and Sunday to only listening to older records.
there is a supply shock of PVC to make records. pre-orders are also pushed back to 12 months now lol
Yeah that's what I'm talkin' about :(
I agree with your point of view. The only thing I can say is I think #5 is kind of good. Not in collectors sense but it allows you to get a color you want. “Collectors” could get the color they want and stop worrying about Fomo just buy a vinyl.
The illusion of choice is nice, but ultimately I think it dillutes collectibility (which is the entire point of having anything but standard black) and also kinda bullies people into getting more copies than they anticipated.
Why can't we crowd source record pressing machines? Cutting lathes? lacquer manufacturing?
Re: point 3- never believe any number given on a limited press. They are never real. That doesn't mean that there's magically always some copies floating around that can be used to replace every damaged order, but that the plant always tends to round up, and stores always tend to put less than what they receive online.
I absolutely agree that quality control is a huge problem. I too have found that it's getting to the point that the majority of the new records I buy, even expensive pressings, are warped. It's just not right to pay $40 and up for warped records.
If they're gonna increase the prices on records, they could at least give us better inner sleeves instead of those dreadful paper ones.
Don't even get me started on warping (looking at you, VMP)
I'm into Vinyl , but not into being robbed . So they can charge what they want , not in the market now - I can wait .
Very informative and helpful 👍
Good points! Sometimes, I will look for a German pressing because of better quality control.
German pressings tend to be pretty great
I feel like MOFI has a solution to bot buying. They release their upcoming release on the music direct catalog and the only way you can preorder is by calling music direct to place a pre-order. They typically sell out before hitting the website. I originally though this was a little bit elitist, but now starting to see that it helps cut down the bots from buying and allows collectors and “Mofi fans” the opportunity to buy the records
In regards to your first point. Yes I agree, it sucks, and there is no point in complaining. I am guilty of expressing my feelings on comments on Facebook. My biggest issue is collecting the money in advance. Labels could be lined up at pressing plants waiting for records to finish and announcing them closer to completion date. Why tell people a year in advance? For smaller labels/bands financially maybe they can’t do that but I’ve seen bigger stuff enjoying the free 12 month loan and absolutely zero risk on their investment. Hats off to them because people are eating it up.
The labels need the money to pay for the press though. Most plants make you pay half up front. Smaller labels don't always have the capital at hand, hence preorders.
@@TooManyRecords That’s assuming the label has absolutely no capital to fund the press on their own. Plenty of labels already fund pressings, even some smaller labels manage to do this. But why front the money when your customers are willing to do it for you, a year in advance. We are the only ones to blame, we wave our cash over our head, take my money!!
Great video. A few points is like to suggest (perhaps you'll have enough before long for another 5 sequel)
1. 180g vinyl needs to stop (or at least be limited). We are in the midst of an oil crisis. Vinyl is a product of oil production and until we find an alternative then we need to treat it as the finite resource it is. This means thinner vinyl. I'm not advocating a return to the 1973 oil crisis thinness that is one of the reasons red rose speedway sounded so poor on original. But a wise usage of 180g for very special editions would be a good idea.
2. Stop extending releases over multiple discs unnecessarily. Case in point - senjutsu from iron maiden is a triple (180g) vinyl. The album is 82 minutes long and legitimately a double CD. You know what else is longer? The White Album - a double. The order and integrity of the Senjutsu album would not have been compromised by keeping it to 2 vinyl discs replicating the CD. Bear in mind that iron maiden were a band regularly releasing 50min+ records in the 80s and these sounded great and, what's more, were released on thinner vinyl too.
3. Boring gatefold sleeves with plain inners on single LPs. Gatefold takes up more shelf space. If it's a single album and there is nothing special about the inner of a gatefold for heaven's sake consider just a single sleeve with the lyrics on the inner sleeve. And indeed vice versa it. The new Ed Sheeran does that right. Personally, I carefully slit my vinyl open to play it and retain the shrink wrap. This means that I have gatefolds I've never fully opened.
4. 45rpm vinyl albums. No - just no. This is an annoyance to far for me. I really like Red (Taylors version) but that's 4 45rpm discs. This method of producing a 130 minute collection is an egregious breaking of steps 1 and 2 as well. I don't think it's beyond the whit of man to release this much material as 3 33rpm records, each up to 45 minutes in length.
So that's my twopenneth.
I have vinyl and most of it is not new. To listen to I just play it. To record and get minimal noise I run the vinyl in warm water in my kitchen sink. I play and record. Then I rewash in the sink to pick up the dirt that the wet record pulled from the grooves. The I dry with a paper towel and replace the vinyl in the sleeve. Doing this for years.
I hate it when a variant is released as a limited edition and after it sells out they add a slightly different variant also as a limited edition. Just do the full run with the first one and stop trying to create FOMO. I wish we saw more timed variant preorders. That would allow the fans to all get a copy instead of bots and still keep it somewhat limited.
You get it!
The latest trend of having the same colour but in 'opaque' and 'translucent' is ridiculous. Just a way to add one more variant for the super fans or the FOMO collectors to buy
I've read that men are more susceptible to FOMO.
My biggest issue has been the heat, which is getting better now that fall is here. I had many, mostly box sets warp in shipping this summer. Box sets are most prone, because they often have a lot of space inside to move around.
variants aren't all about encouraging people to 'collect em all'. e.g. Japanese breakfast might just have various choices for people to pick one they like.
Limited editions and exclusives are downright infuriating and inane as they make customers and fans who don't live in that particular country or region where the exclusives are released in impossible to purchase thoes copies
What I don't understand is why bots aren't getting blocked by Captcha boxes. That tech has been around since at least as far back as 2010, and used to be used to stop even matters such as excessive posting on forums in too short a short space of time, which can foul up the forum servers. How the servers of those record companies aren't getting fouled up by use of bots by buyers goodness only knows.
Here's one. I backed 2 different projects going on two years ago. Granted one had to be recorded. The other one is a reissue where the dug out the master tapes, remixed them so the music is more equally balanced, asked fans for photos and stories and such. They even gave the masters as a perk for a high tier backer on the stipulation they don't remix for the purpose of publishing.. That said they are both seeing their press dates getting pushed back and back so that bigger names get priority. I joked with the bands that we may see them by Christmas 2022. Now a lot of it is COVID and supply chain issues I know. but still it's been 2 years. One of the two bands are working on even newer material already. It makes me wonder how King Gizzard is managing to pull off putting out as much as they do especially considering they've switched to no plastic packaging and recycled media. My guess is they are the onces that are a large contributor for long production time just because they are so dang popular and prolific. Just a theory kind of tongue in cheek.....maybe.
For me my biggest problem is price. I'm tired of how expensive vinyl is. I wanted to get the new Iron Maiden on vinyl and it was like $50-60! Ridiculous. Alchemist and Soul Assassin vinyl forget it, what a rip off. I'm not gonna pay those prices for a new vinyl. I got a wife and kids, I don't make lots of money, how do I explain to them paying that much money for music I could listen to for free on the internet or pay $10-15 for the CD, instead of taking my family out or buying them what they need. I can't! So I was getting into the hobby but it's pretty much priced me out of it. So now I only buy a couple vinyl a year, but it has to be less than $30, and am starting to go back to CDs instead. Also since we live in a capitalist society, and there is so much demand, why aren't there more pressing plants being opened to meet supply? Doesn't make sense to me. Anyways, good video!
That last point is the big head scratcher
I can relate to number three, it is becoming really costly with some anniversary pressings
I feel like the community when it comes to selling has struggled a bit at least for me today's my birthday and my weeks been rough im physically disabled I have cerebral palsy and vinyl and music in general is my absolute passion would anyone be interested in buying anything feel free and message me keep on spinning stay beautiful people peace
"McCartney III ".... Jesus, talk about flogging a dead horse!!!! and Courtney Barnett's upcoming album!
You're 100% on #2, the bubble burst scenario. To be honest, all of these issues are bubble burst scenarios and I know people don't want to believe it, but this is something that will eventually happen at this rate. Might take a few years but we're heading in that direction.
Only part I don’t totally agree with is about variants. No one is forcing anyone to buy every variant. If someone feels like they have to own every color of a record it’s not really the artist or labels fault. If they’re just pressing enough for the demand it seems more like a personal choice of which ones to purchase. With all the music streaming and stealing these days most artists only make real money from touring. It’s actually more annoying to me when there’s only one or two variants that sell out in an hour only to be listed on Discogs and eBay at an inflated price. I like having options and not having to pay flippers for something that just came out.
Got a record of Billy Idol brand new and only 1 out of 4 songs on side 1 doesnt skip. Side 2 is good.
On the varient side i seen so many people buy Taylor's new album and buy all the varients just so they can make 3 different albums with 3 different colors. Which is a cool idea but wish her fan site would have thought of it first.
yeah too many variants. I do like it when there are a few and each one has a different # of pressings, but more than 4 for original pressings and especially reissues is too much imo.
There is a certain rap group that I've seen releasing their 4-track cassette basement demo recordings on 180g vinyl. I can understand wanting a certain project on vinyl but if it was trash quality when you recorded and originally released it 30 years ago, why put it on the more expensive vinyl option intended for higher quality that your project never had. Simply to get an extra 5-10$ from your fans...
The first band that came to mind is i.c.p. lol
@@asaprabbit8305 love that i didnt have to mention them and you still knew
Solution to number 1, instead of opening a record store you need to open a record plant! Agree bots and flippers are the scum of the universe especially around RSD, QC sucks. I believe in basic black. With that being said I will buy a color variant if that is the only available choice. While I don’t go after multiple variants I will by a reissue or OG. Guilty pleasure, I collect multiple copies of the Beatles White album ala the Chang collection.
ha! maybe a plant is the next step for me after the store..
Great Video. A couple thoughts:
We are not in an era of "uprecidented demand" for vinyl. Quite the opposite. There is a growing and excited community for sure. The demand now though is a fraction of where it was for many years, ending with the arrival of CDs. The manufacturing capacity from that era was largely dismantled, so it feels like we are starting from ground zero.
Second thought is that the current resurgence of interest in vinyl is a great problem to have.
Thanks again for a great discussion!
Bob Hart
1 - Definitely the only solution to this is to have more plants made to meet the demand. This will take time, of course, but I think it's feasible. The silver lining is that a new plant can mean new and better ways to make records. Though another issue that has come up is supply chain and specifically for getting the key raw material, polyvinyl chloride. But hopefully, necessity can be once again the mother of invention.
2 - I've noticed this a few times myself and again, this may be where the new plants can come in handy. But then again, there have been QC issues in the past. Going back to the polyvinyl chloride, this is tied to the issue of acquiring oil. In fact, the same occurred in the 1970s and, as a result, records were made very very flimsy (I think as low as 80grams) and thus reducing the sound quality. In fact, it was not uncommon to have a newly minted record skip on the first play (and I even remember this happening with Pink Floyd's A Momentary Lapse of Reason when it came out in 1987). But as of now, I think the purse will be the corrector: if a plant does a poor job, do business elsewhere. This has happened with several labels. Dream Catalogue I know had to change plants a number of times due to bad QC.
3 - To be fair, sometimes it's hard to gauge what is a reasonable amount for supply. After all, you could have records that don't sell at all and you are stuck with this inventory that you will never be able to sell. So it's often a matter of caution to do these initial small-scale runs. If it turns out to be successful or there's an opportunity to add something new, then another run is made. Granted, I believe in keeping your word. Thus if you have a limited run in a particular way, keep it that way and don't do a "second limited run" on top of it.
4 - This explains a lot of why records (or any limited physical media) sell out quickly. I do think have an open-ended preorder run will help (Geometric Lullaby has done this a few times to great success).
5 - I think it's a matter of taste. Personally, I don't need many or all the variants to be satisfied as a listener. As something of a music maker myself, I only want to put out the variants that make sense for whatever I make. For instance. in addition to standard black, I would want one that encapsulates the mood or vibe of the work (that can be the limited edition one) and one (maybe two) that is in line with the artwork. So let's say I had an album with artwork that is mostly black and white and blue/dark purple. It would *not* make sense to have a variant be of neon orange, hot pink, mellow yellow as there is probably nothing about the album that would justify those colour variants.
Those are my thoughts for now. I'm sure there will be more =D
I'm glad Geometric Lulllaby moved to that model, some of their stuff was ridiculously hard to get and their hit ratio of great albums is super high. Thanks for the thoughtful comment.
@@TooManyRecords Anytime. P.S. Doesn’t 100% Electronicon 1 seem like it happened yesterday? 😁
@@DerekPower it actually seems like ten years ago because of the pandemic
One fix for this would be to have the multiple variations but limit each one more than the last.
Green splatter - 100
Black & white - 250
Red - 500 etc.
That way each variation is in its own special. They make money, we get opportunity to get the most collectible version and be excited if we can get the #1 most limited version. Idk…
That DBZ poster is awesome !
Kevin Chin is the artist, he's amazing
Great video man but I’d like to say that I think your last point fails to fully apply to “DeRapWinkel” in the context you applied it to. They often keep their variants a similar or even the same price and I respect that. I can say they are guilty of producing a huge amount of variants on occasion but I do like a lot about their system. They are also usually packaged quite well. I agree with every other point made though 👍
As much as I love colored vinyl & picture discs, 90% of the time there are defects. Quality control has gone out the window. My advice is to stick with 180 gram.