Play saz/baglama: Intro and hijaz scale (misirlou)
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- čas přidán 6. 01. 2019
- Are you interested in playing saz/baglama, but uncertain on how to approach this instrument?
There is not so much on youtube in English, so I have made this brief video. Hopefully it can help and encourage more people in the west to play this lovely instrument.
I use baglama düzeni tuning, which is very common in Turkey. You can read about it here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/baglama
This video is not meant as a substitute for a teacher, but more as encouragement to start playing. It is very important to get lessons if you want to play seriously. I have personally got a lot, on a continuous basis, since I started in year 2000, both in Denmark and abroad - and are still getting lessons (always something new to learn).
Check out Labyrinth musical workshops in Greece. Highly recommended:
labyrinthmusic.gr/en/
and even got a branch in Toronto for the Americans (no excuses)!!!!
www.labyrinthontario.com/ - Hudba
Yes, please do more tutorials for scales and songs with tabs for saz. How to play ornaments, etc. Or anything about saz. None English-speaking youtuber does that properly as you do. I am a novice hobby player. Looks like you are heavily invested in the whole cultural thing and how the instrument is meant to be played, looking forward to seeing more of that! Different tunings, and pros/cons of each one. Btw I experimented with my long-necked saz by throwing off the middle course of strings and installing a thick 5th(wounded) string from the steel guitar, it gives a very full bass sound. Tuning D2-d2 G2-g3-g3, and put some fabric under the wooden bridge-thingy for the slight sound-dampening, if you wanna strum hardcore. For Percival sound (his invention) and saz songs from Witcher 3(how I met saz), makes it good for fast "medieval" strumming rhythms. But that lasted only for a while since there are too few breakdowns on those compositions on CZcams. Now I am back to the default setup, and more ways to learn!
That sounds good. I also only use the standard Turkish tuning and way of playing.
Last week I bought a short neck Baglama when traveling in Turkey. Your videos are helping me a lot to understand the instrument and learn about it. I love it’s sound! 😃
Thanks a lot!
Thanks. Great to hear. Good luck with your playing.
Klaus M is there any video about tuning the baglama? Mine has 6 strings. I tuned it in D G A. But I don’t exactly which octave each string has to be or even in kHz, as I use a tuner that tells me kHz and the note. Or maybe if you can give me hint about this I will really appreciate it 🙂
Thanks!!
@@csapino78 I do not have a video on how to tune, only this video where the tuning is shown. The thick wound strings are one octave lower than the thin unwound strings. I do not know the kHz values. The string tension will be quite loose for A(top) G D on a short neck baglama. These are often tuned three tones higher, as: C (top) Bb F. The tuning and string tension is otherwise similar to tuning a guitar.
Klaus M thanks a lot!!!
Thanks very much Klaus, great video.
Very nice to see more people interested in this wonderful instrument (and in english language!). Good work! I really hope you could upload more bağlama videos!
Thanks. There will come more :)
check here - czcams.com/play/PLtiGlwQAjaVqXeUe53rNXXO8WYBE24eq2.html
thank you for a very good introduction/explanation.
You have a beautiful bağlama over there!
Thanks. Hopefully more people will start playing baglama:)
It sounds awesome
This helped a lot, thanks!
Really nice video, please do more tutorials for scales and songs with tabs, really helpful
Thanks for the comment. I will make more, but it takes some time to make properly (draw tabs etc)
check here - czcams.com/play/PLtiGlwQAjaVqXeUe53rNXXO8WYBE24eq2.html
Douzeni means tuning. Karadouzeni = black tuning.
I'm speaking from india 🇮🇳 and I really enjoyed your introduction with baglama . But unfortunately I don't have that thing , after many storms i have to buy it . Bless me so that I can buy it. 😇🙏
I will bless you😊 Good luck
@@KlausM thank you sir
Thanks
guzel..the long neck baglama is uzun baglama..and the short neck is kisa baglama..nice to see your tutorial...i am waiting the next lesson about maqamat
scales..
Hi Bang. Thanks. Yes, makam scales could be a good subject. It is, however, a very big and complex subject, where I am not really an expert.
I have made three videos with the song Gökte Yildiz that goes in Beyati/huseyni makam:
Play oriental guitar & saz | Part I-III | Intro, 7-8 beat & quarter tone scale (Part 1-3)
Klaus this is brilliant. I have now learnt my first song. Do you have any other videos in English and with tabs? I'd like to expand my repertoire!
I am working on a video with the Romani song. Ederlezi
@@KlausM Good one. I look forward to it.
I have a short neck saz that has been restrung in the frets, could you do a video on all of the notes for all of the frets and what they need to be tuned at? You are playing some of the notes and that is very helpful… But if I knew where all the string frets needed to be that would be amazing
Hi Cameron. I am quite busy at the moment, so I am not sure I have time to make a video on this. There is a nice diagram here:
www.khafif.com/rhy/saz/
See the section: Bağlama "Long neck" Frets
The quartertone frets are the green on the figure to the right (just disregard the blue).
So the quartertone frets are on position: 2, 4, 7, 9 and 12.
Start tuning all the normal frets using a chromatic tuner. Then place the quartertone frets slightly above the middle. There are no standard/correct frequencies for the quartertone frets. He used 'black tuning', while I use baglama duzeni tuning. This does not influence the frets.
Good luck
I think this videos might help you - czcams.com/play/PLtiGlwQAjaVqXeUe53rNXXO8WYBE24eq2.html
Hello Klaus. Very good video. I like how your baglama sounds and the design is nice. Where did you buy it? Have a brand name? Or do you have de Luthier's name?
Hi Enzo. There is unfortunately not a Brand or Luthier name. This is my first baglama that I bought from my Turkish teacher at that time. It is actually not particularly good as an acoustic saz. Therefore, I installed guitar pickups (seymour duncan) to use it electric. It is the electric sound you hear in the video. I did not use the microphone of the camera for the video, but used the cable input on the camera, so the sound you hear in the video is the actual DI sound that you will get through the speakers. This baglama is not particularly good, so it should not be hard to find one of the same quality or better. You need to decide if you want elektrobaglama or acoustic.
If you use acoustic then it is very common in Turkey to use the AKG c411 contact pickup for amplification. I think that this sounds quite good, but it is very sensitive to pickup placement.
Here is a nice video and sound with elektro baglama using di marzio pickups.
czcams.com/video/csH88c6he8U/video.html
The sound is different from mine, because often Elektro baglamas are set up with fever strings (such as removing the lower octave string in the third course). I have maintained the same strings as on acoustic baglama, even though I most often use the guitar pickups.
@@KlausM Thank You for your answer. Now I'm playing bouzouki and I would like to try baglama. The sound is very interesting. Regards from Chile
Very interested in your Tutorials I am thinking should I buy long neck or short neck seems easier to get started on ? Please tell message me your recommendations
Hi Dildar. Thanks for watching. People will normally buy the type that fits their voice when singing, such as a short neck for higher pitch and longer for lower pitch. However, when buying your first saz, then it is most versatile with the long one, as in the video. Because, you can always make it shorter by placing a capo. E.g. the long neck in the video tuned in A, can be made equivalent to a short neck C, by placing a capo in the third position. You cannot make a short neck longer, so there you will be stuck. Then you can always buy an additional short neck saz later, if you get really into playing. Good luck
Hey Klaus, I appreciate your videos but I'm wondering if you can help me with issues. - I've watched your video on how to tune and fix pegs - But everytime I try to tune in D my bottom strings snap, they dont seem to want to go higher than a C. Also I've drawn with a pencil on the tuning pegs to help turning them smoother, but they still require a little force to turn. Any advice?
It is quite common for this string to break. The reason is typically poor quality of the strings. I use:
www.thomann.de/dk/pyramid_saz_6758_saitensatz.htm
Tuning pegs are always tricky. You can try to see if a little candle wax works better. But some tuning pegs are just annoying. Good luck.
Hi,
I just tuned my new long-neck baglama to AGD and managed to break one of the lower strings (fortunately it's the higher octave D so I still have a spare high octave D). Did I make a mistake? Are the lower 2 strings not supposed to go as high as D on all long neck baglamas?
Hi Johan
This is a common problem, when the strings are of too low quality. Try with good quality strings, such as Pyramid. This should help.
www.thomann.de/gb/pyramid_saz_6758_saitensatz.htm?shp=eyJjb3VudHJ5IjoiZ2IiLCJjdXJyZW5jeSI6NCwibGFuZ3VhZ2UiOjJ9&reload=1
Very interesting I was thinking about getting the Cura Saz I grew up listening to Greek and Albanian music thanks for the information does the instrument have 2 or 3 strings sir
It has 7 strings, but in 3 groups. So you press more strings at one time. So think of it as 3.
The cura saz is very small, but maybe this what you want.
@@KlausM I'm just learning about these instraments and I like the way they sound can the smaller one be tuned to a twangy sound that you hear in the larger ones
The higher pitched sound
@@DJb-ill219 The cura is mainly used for intros, melodic parts etc. It is rarely used for entire songs. Tuning it down will probably result in quite loose strings. A compromise could maybe be to go for short neck baglama from D (Re). It has a high pitch and is more used for entire songs.
You can however buy quite cheap saz cura, so just trying should be fine.
@@KlausM thanks so it's more like a Solo instrument then
Picking your brains again Klaus,what pick do you use?I have one of the long ones that is very thin and flexible, it came with the Saz when i bought it.
I find this harder to tremolo,when i play mandolin i use a very stiff blue chip pick,no problem with that.
Do people generally always use a saz pick?I have not tried using a guitar pick.
Another problem i have with the saz pick is the noise as the pick clips the soundboard.
I will stick to practicing with my saz pick but think i would be better with a thicker gauge pick
I use these:
www.thomann.de/dk/saz_saz_picks_10_pcs_with_wallet.htm
They are different thicknesses, but none are really thick. The way to obtain a 'thicker' pick and potentially avoid hitting the sound board too much, is to practise holding closer to the tip of the pick. If you hold too far, you cannot do tremolo with this pick.
You can of course use any pick you want.
czcams.com/video/_dlGZu_53Es/video.html
See at 03:55
@@KlausM cheers mate,I wonder who designed a pick that long when you only use the end???
I am used to only having the end of my pick showing from my mandolin so this will be no problem.
I was having half the pick showing, had nobody to show me and thought they must be that long for a reason.
Thanks again
@@KlausM I will try with my blue chip later aswell, see how I go
I received a short neck baglama as a gift, identical to the light colored one youre holding to the far left. Can you tell me if that one is D or C? If so do I need to purchase specific set of strings? Also do you know where I can find the fret placement as mine seem to be in or out of their grooves.
The shortest I have is tuned in D (far left), but if you are concerned that the string tension will be too high, then it is save to tune it in C, which is fine. I do not understand what you mean with grooves. There are normally not grooves to hold the fret wire. It is wound around the neck and can be moved in place.
Klaus M sorry, I misspoke. So there are tiny markings along the sides of the neck. I was wondering if those are indicators of were the “wound frets” are supposed to be or are those meant to indicate the space in between frets? If you could send me a photo of your small baglama to see if it matches I’d be really grateful. Thank again.
Klaus M also forgot to mention, it’s 6 stings only.
@@SoCalloweenNEWS There are no markings on my baglamas, so these could simply be ornamentations. It does, however, not matter. What matters is that the frets are in tune and you check this with your tuner. First tune an open string and then check that each fret it is a half-tone higher (as on the guitar fretboard). Disregard the quatertone frets at first (on position 2, 4, 7 etc).
@@SoCalloweenNEWS That is fine. Some baglamas are like this, even though most have 7 strings.
Hi, i have a question regarding the Baglama/Saz i was hoping you could answer and mainly about the string configuration.
I restore all sorts of older instruments (mostly violins, guitars, basses, banjos and drums) and i'm currently restoring my first Baglama for my employer who actually has two but one is just a body and neck, no bridge, no pegs and no strings so that's more of a decorative wall hanger that i'm leaving as is.
The one i'm actually restoring (Saz Evi made by Semsi Yasiman, Bes Ktas Istanbul) had broken tuning pegs and was missing some strings.
The pegs were quite easy to find, strings i could find too but there's something weird..... the string set i found had 8 strings..... the saz itself has 8 peg holes.... but the peg set has only 7 pegs.
Is that extra string and extra hole for another string configuration like a 3-2-3 configuration? All i seem to find is a 2-2-3 configuration so i am wondering why there's 8 strings in a pack instead of seven.
Thank you in advance and i will be using your lessons to demo the Saz after i fix it..... i only play western fretted instruments so it's going to be interesting dealing with microtonality!
Hi Ja1980
The normal configuration is using 7 strings, as 2 2 3, like you write. So just use this. The eigth peg holes must be for some kind of uncommon configuration that I am not aware of, so I would ignore it. Beware that the pitch of tuning depends on the length of the instrument. God luck.
@@KlausM Thanks for responding, yes i plan on using the normal 7 but it puzzles me too much to ignore it.
I must know why this thing is larger, has less frets and more strings than a normal one.
It was made by (or for) Semsi Yastiman, a turkish musician (1924-1996) and when i translate "8 string baglama" into the translator and google the outcome i do see photos of some baglamas with eight pegs but the photos are too old and grainy to see how the strings are configured.
I love researching this kind of stuff and i do also have a standard 7 string version so if i find out why i might do 8 on the odd one and 7 on the standard.
Anyway, i don't want to bore you any further, thanks for your advice and lesson video, i will be using it soon as i'm done restoring it.
Best wishes from Holland,
Frans
@@KlausM I was told it was a pair of Saz's when i was asked to repair them so i assumed it was a Baglama.
The 8 string has 20 tied frets with microtones and a scale length (distance from nut to bridge) of +- 94cm, i thought it could maybe be a Divan but those are 10cm's longer at a 104cm scale.
The 7 string has 24 tied frets with microtones and a scale length of 88 cm so that would be a true baglama.
The two instruments do look very much alike but when i search buzuk or bouzouki they don't look like the instrument i have here, they have normal frets without microtones.
I found something on google called a Bozlak Sazi that had 8 strings in 3-2-3 configuration but as far as i can find out Bozlak is just a genre of music and not a class of instruments per se.
Yes i do have the bridge but i don't think it's original to the instrument, it only has 6 notches in pairs of 2..... it's also only had 6 strings on it (2 of them broken).
The tailpiece on it has 9 holes in pairs of 3 so i think it's not supposed to have a 4x2 configuration like a Bouzouki
Oh cool, i did not know that Saz Evi meant that. That's what makes these odd (to me) instruments fun, i learn all sorts of things.
I'd like to take you up on your offer and send you a couple of pictures of the instrument along with some i found on the internet of similar looking instruments tonight.
Thank you for helping my friend, it is much appreciated.
Best wishes, Frans.
It does sound like it is a baglama by your description. I also just searched Semsi Yastiman and in all the pictures he is shown with a baglama, so it must be some sort of baglama.
It is very long. I am not aware of this type of baglama unfortunately, but there are many different types, since they were handmade. So, I do not think that I can help much unfortunately. You are welcome to send images.
(I just deleted my previous reply by accident).
@@KlausM I've sent you some pictures, hope this will clear things up a little.
Yes he's a famous musician from what i could find out, there's tons of material of him here on youtube, sounds pretty nice.
I can't understand Turkish but my mom does and she told me he sang about his mother in one of the clips, sounded very nice and even the microtones weren't bothersome for someone who is only used to western scaled music.
By the way - if you do some covers with a tutorial on Witcher 3 melodic saz play, that could be a hit! ) Witcher 3 is the closest popular proxy in the West to saz.
I do not really know Witcher 3, but the songs are really good.
I completely agree with you, man. Percival originally performs most of Witcher 3 melodics using saz. I founded some guitar tutorials for Witcher soundtracks, but no for saz. It would be gorgeous if somebody on CZcams start to do it
@@bilamalva I had to undo my long necked Saz,, Had it 1.5 years, and tried it both in traditional setup and with Percival strings-mode. I actually got learned Novigrad and "La-la-ley La-la-lay" song lol (silver for monsters), but without other instruments it does not sound THAT impressive. In Percival mode (D-g) it is actually quite restricting what melodies you can play. I also learned some traditional saz melodies, but it quickly got too weird for me. Turku music is en entire wierd universe on its own, and if i d study it, I would do it on Divan saz. That giant saz is awesome, brutal AF. But thats a project for another time, and is a pretty deep cultural dive. I also consider getting Irish bouzuki, turns out a lot of witcher can be played on it.
Hej Klaus - har du nogle sociale medier man kan kontante dig på?
Hej. Jeg er på facebook:
facebook.com/klaus.mogensen/
My Bağlama teacher speaks out against putting capos on long-neck Sazs to simulate a short-neck Bağlama. He says the capo destroys the character of the Bağlama. And in fact, the two instruments ring out differently when the strings are hit without fingers.
You can of course just buy more saz of different sizes. I am simply saying that if you buy your first saz, then it is more flexible with a long neck, because you can always make it shorter. It is hard the other way around.
I think it is quite subjective with the 'character' of the instrument.
.. but I of course agree that a capo is not particular beautiful.
Saz is kurdish 👍
Just learned about it, you might have sayid things that are a bit wrong, the top is A (la)
Yes, I say that the top string is A (at 2:00)
Hi Klaus
Very impressive works !
I received my long neck baglama two days ago
salamuzik.com/collections/saz-baglama/products/turkish-long-neck-walnut-baglama-saz-asl-202
but I'm struggling to tune it.
From top to bottom I try to tune it in AGD according to your indications.
I tune the thickest A string without problem but the thinness is either too loose when I reach the A note or it breaks when I want to tighten it.
The string gauge is 0.2 mm (0.08 inch).
I have the same problem with the thinnest D string (gauge 0.2 mm ).
Should I change the gauge of the strings to resist the tension ?
thanks
Hi Alain. I friend of mine once had a similar problem. In this case he bought some rolls of string for very cheap that also broke everytime. I think the quality is just too bad. They probably think that you will anyway but your own strings on after purchase and therefore just put some cheap string on.
I use:
www.thomann.de/gb/pyramid_saz_6758_saitensatz.htm
Beware, that what Thoman write here:
aa 020/020
A 051w
dd 030/030
gg 022/022
G 056w
is for the 'black tuning' - I believe. But they can also be used for Baglama Düzeni tuning. Just use the thinnest strings for dd, etc.
@@KlausM Hello Klaus, You were right the problem came from the quality of the strings, I changed them with a set of strings from GalliStrings, a Neapolitan tailpiece.
www.thomann.de/fr/galli_strings_s020_saz_strings_set.htm
nicely individually wrapped.
The sound is much clearer and much better, now I just have to practice ...
cheers
@@alaing4674 Great. I will try these strings next time. So now we just need to practice!!!!!😃
Nile
your tuning A-G-D is not even mentioned at wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba%C4%9Flama
Baglama duzeni tuning. It is the most common.
Black tuning (G D A) is probably the second most common. I do not play this one.
@@KlausM could not fid it here: de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saz
@@zzzGroove That German site could need some fine-tuning:) They are writing the strings in opposite order, starting from the bottom string, which is very confusing. So duzeni tuning is written as (A D E). That should read (E D A). This is duzeni tuning from E, which is rarely used so high. Transposed to A, gives A G D. So, the page is technically correct, but presented in the most confusing way possible:)
4:35 makam hicazkar / maqam hijaz kar
Yes, which is also called Shahnaz:
www.maqamworld.com/en/maqam/hijazkar.php
@@KlausM Sorry jeg ikke fik svaret, jeg troede at shahnaz bare var almindelig hijaz i en anden toneart?
@@tkmfischerman2582 Jeg tror at hicazkar er en mere generel betegnelse end shenaz.
Thats not hijaz, thats the western 12 temperament interpretation of hijaz. Thats only hijaz if you play a 12 temperament instrument. To play hijaz on this you need to raise the second note by a quarter tone
czcams.com/video/aTnL_m47Ews/video.html
People still call it hijaz, also in Turkey, even though it is a later equal tempered adaptation (what would you otherwise call it?). The original quatertone version cannot be played on std saz. Here fretless instruments or the turkish kanun is needed, as in the song Garip by Göksel Baktagir. I of course like the original version a lot (it sounds more soft), but it cannot be played like this on saz.
@@KlausM oh sorry i thought saz was suited for the original quartertone hijaz. I guess it depends on the root?
@@iasonasstathis355 That is fine. You need to play the Tanbur (for fretted instruments) in order to play all the original makams. There is a difference between folk music and classical music in this respect. With the saz being simpler (less frets) and more adapted to equal tempered scales.
If you for example compare beyati/ussak with rast. Then the same quatertone fret will be used on the saz, even though it originally is two different quatertones, with the rast being slightly higher. But only the tanbur have enough frets for this difference, while the saz is 'simplified'. Simplicity is, however, often good because it makes playing easier and less academic.
I just realized your claim that by putting a capo on a long-neck baglama you get a short-neck version is not entirely accurate. Let's consider your AGD tuning.
With the capo on the 3rd fret, you will find the width of the analogous frets does not always match that of the frets on the short version. For instance, the short version's lower string G note is played on a narrow fret, while on the long version you end up playing it on a wide fret. And this "discord" kind of propagates all the way down the neck - some frets matching, some not - so it's kind of difficult to learn (and play) if you wanna learn by watching others who are actually using a short neck baglama.
It might not be a big deal for some, but for me it was and I will be exchanging my long neck for a short neck, seeing as that one seems to be more common, at least on Turkish CZcams. :)
Hi Johan
Beware I talk about 3rd position not 3rd fret. The 3rd position is from C and here the additional quartertone frets are placed as on the shorter baglama.
The 3rd fret is from B, which is very odd indeed (not recommended), since here you cannot play the quartertone makams (beyati). If you want to play makams from B, then place the capo on 3rd position (not 3rd fret) and tune one ½ tone down from C to B.
I also very often play from C, as on the short baglama.
@@KlausM Hi I am also talking about the 3rd position, sorry. From C. I'm not talking about the quartertone frets, either.
I'm only talking about the mismatching widths of frets. Have you not noticed this? If you want I can document this with picures.
@@johangalician620 You are welcome to send a picture to
The frets are moveable, so maybe there is something weird going on with yours?
@@KlausM Ah, I had no idea the frets were moveable! So is that the solution? If yes you should have mentioned it, that it's not enough to just place capo on 3rd position - you also have to move the frets around to get the correct widths after the fact. :)
@@johangalician620 It should not be necessary to move the frets around if placed correctly, so I do not quite understand what is happening for you :)
The only frets that should/can be moved are the quartertone frets. The others are placed in equal temperament position as on the guitar. Here, you can use a tuner to ensure that they are placed in tune.
Klaus, thank you first of all
but your speech (or the recording of it) is not clear, your G or D pronouncing can be easily mistaken etc.
I guess the ones having good musical hearing would know what you're saying without you saying it (by ear of the note played)
but IMHO you should put the letters of the notes played n the video
Sanamı kaldı saz çalmak
?
Ne güzel işte bizim kültürümüz yayılıyo
@@ziyaay4750 doğru kültürümüz yayılıyor ben yanlış düşünmüşüm ön yargılı davranmışım
Jesus loves you!!!
Jesus loves you, but everyone else thinks you're a dick.
Nice video BUT it’s Kurdish instrument not Turkish. Everything Turk have is stolen from Kurds, Greeks and Armenians.
Butthurted Kurdish wannabe
Imitation is the best form of compliment.