Cheap(er) Bike Vs Super Bike | Is It Worth That Price?
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- čas přidán 20. 05. 2024
- There is an £8,000 difference between the Specialized S-Works Tarmac SL8 and the Elves Vanyar Pro Disc. But what does this gulf in price equate to in terms of bike tech, components and performance?
Liam Cahill tests the two bikes, comparing them on the flat and in the hills. But which bike do you think is better? Let us know in the comments.
#racebike #cycling #value
Chapters
00:00 Intro
01:00 Climbing
02:18 Aero
04:14 Build
06:30 Value
07:16 Is The Superbike Worth It?
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Which bike would you buy? Let us know in the comments! 👇👇👇
In the slow motion ride-by footage, the tires on the Elves looked pretty flat compared to those on the Specialized - are we sure this was done fairly?
Neither. I would take the £12k cash and get some liposuction and spend the rest on holidays! 😅
Def saving the 8k
A 600-1400 bucks one like a person that hasn't completely lost sight of what a reasonable price point is.
I’ve been using 600 usd aluminum local roadbike with shimano sora in the last 2 years, covering 17,000+ km. Only changed the original saddle and upgrade the wheelset after the original was broken. Very happy with it, and still planning to use it for years to come. Only recently considering buying high end carbon roadbike to complement it - not to replace it for now, maybe later.
Thank you very much to Bike Radar and Liam Cahill for taking the time and interest in the Elves Vanyar Pro Disc 2024. We have really enjoyed and valued seeing this bike compared to more well-known and highly respected western brands. As we emerge in the western markets, from our perspective, we appreciate riders being able to fully understand our value proposition, and what Elves Bikes are contributing towards industry development. This has been a really authentic review; the bike spec was designed in line with our most popular selling groupset over the last 12 months as we wanted to make sure the consumer got full transparency. Yes, we could have built with Dura Ace, and there are many sub 7kg versions of this bike that riders have built. But to continue to build trust and confidence with riders, we felt the Ultegra Di2 with the Vittoria tyres was the right call rather than putting the highest spec on the bike. As a business, we are doing our best to challenge the price point for performance which this whole review and video captured perfectly. Thank you once again for the interest and time taken. Elves Bikes UK & Europe
The bike market is dead, the stocks are full, and after some more manufactures and stores get bankrupt, the market will start a brutal price competition. Just sit back, take popcorn and a beer, and enjoy the show. End of 2024 will be the best year in a long time, for customers, to get a great bike very very cheap
really ?
I've been riding an Elves rim brake the last year. Built at a bit over 14lb. In the past I've ridden Trek, Cervelo, Cannondale, and I don't think I'm missing anything riding this setup that's like a third of the price. I'm a cat 2 racer, and I'm confident this bike isn't holding me back for any race results in any type of road/circuit race. On top of that, for I think what is about 70USD, you can get the custom paint job. To me it's sort of a no-brainer going this route, and seeing people spend 10, 12 14+k USD or whatever on the usual boring big name brands, makes you realize how much people just want to show off expensive bikes as a status symbol, or they're just ignorant about what else they can spend their money on besides the usual worldtour brands.
I build my Elves for 2600 , with sram 12 speed electronic groupset , carbon wheels , continental tyres . Weight less than 8kg , custom paint aswell 😊
I would like to buy Elves but their website is not so good of information.
@@hornetluca what information are you looking for ?
@@MultiEski are those frames only for electronic groupset? What if I wanna install a mechanical one?
@@hornetluca you can do both , I use sram because I never had one , and is less wires 😂 I only paid 1k for full brand new groupset. But I’m sure you can you whatever you like. But I think is only for disc breaks .
@@MultiEski Awesome. Did you build it yourself?
I could build a 7kg elves for under 5000aud which is less than 2500pounds. So the elves is definitely a better buy if you know where to source the parts.
I was going to say why does the Elves weight so much for £4k
The Elves is a stunner😍🥰
Vanyar Pro SL8
Weight 8.2 6.8 kg
Climber Test 1.5 km 300W
Time 4.51 4.42
Aero Test Test 2 km 300W
2.53 2.51 minute
Wheelset 30/30 51/60
Tire vittoria zaffiro pro Turbo Rapidair 26
Price 4,000 12,000 £
You can buy elves frameset and build the bike yourself and you can save even more. That is less then just sl8 frameset without handlebars.
Absolutely! I think where Elves are getting it right by giving so many options and choices to suit all budgets. Thanks for your input!
I'd like to see the actual power output on the climb. I highly doubt the tarmac is that much faster uphill.
4,000 is cheap? Explains why the cycling industry has gone tits up
*compared to the £12000 bike 🤑
hahahahahahah...relatively speaking, of course. @@bikeradar
@@amitkumar-wj8gnLol why don't you stick to cheap steel frames and old tech. 4k with the full group set ain't bad esp the elves is full carbon
Price anchoring, innit? Makes you think the £4K bike is cheap by comparison.
@@amitkumar-wj8gnmiddle aged professional men have discretionary income for serious hobbies and passions. Get used to it.
That 9 seconds is probably just environment, rider position etc. Probably no difference between them at all.
The other one has sworks on it and its red
I’d say it boils down to Vitoria zaffiro pro on the elves vs whatever is on the s-works. I bet it’s race tyres vs training tyres as the difference.
Still on my Elves Vanyar rim brake 😂❤
for me,a 58kg rider,rim brake is the best😂
Great to hear! So happy you are enjoying the bike!
I recently built an Elves Eglath with their wheels, bars and Ultegra Di2. So far it has proved great value compared to stock bikes. The ratchet hub is loud (very loud) some like it some don’t. Horses for courses. To buy the same spec off the shelf would have cost me €2k more my biggest frustration with buying off the shelf to a budget is you end up buying components you don’t want in the first place. (Stem length, saddle & possibly wheels). I’ve had plenty of bikes so was a no brainer for me. The custom paint is awesome! Time will tell but so far I’m delighted with it. Had I gone with mechanical or 105. I could have saved more but was happy to pay the extra for Di2.
So pleased you are having such a great experience Andrew! Great job on your bike!
About nine months ago I built up an Elves Eglath frame with integrated cockpit and with my own Ultegra di2, Scribe wheels, P Zero TL tyres and I love it. After a month the outfront gps bar mount that came with it snapped off, Elves replaced it with a stronger thicker version. After a couple of months I noticed the forks flexing under breaking, I found cracks in the paint around the fork crown indicating failure of the carbon ! I sent Elves a video of the flexing forks and to their credit they sent me a new fork without quibbling. When compared to the original fork the new one had more carbon in the join between the crown and the steerer tube so I think this may have been an issue Elves were aware of. Elves customer service was very good. These issues haven't put me off the brand and I would happily get another Elves.
ultegra all day - best most durable and reliable performance groupset ever made.
Wouldn't buy either as 4k is out of budget but suspect wheels and tyres would make up most of the 9 seconds
I suspect 9seconds is all tires and nothing with the wheels.
A 1.4kg weight difference will make the time gap about right
@@geoffsemon7411 it's all so irrelevant really as no 2 runs will be the same but getting tyre pressure and width of tyre in tubeless has massive benefits, costs less than £150 way better than 6k plus ££
The Tarmac is by far the nicer looking bike but Elves also do a more Aero road bike, The Falath which has the more chunky look of the Specialized. I have one myself Andy love it. Only cost me about £2300 to build but it is mechanical gears and not Di2. Looks every bit as nice as the Tarmac. The customer service is excellent as they have teams of people in various parts of Europe and UK. You can contact them directly with any queries or problems rather than trying to deal with someone in China.
You know how much we love your bike! Thanks very much for your kind words, we feel really lucky to have amazing and supportive riders like you who have given us the opportunity to prove ourselves! Bring on the sun!
Having UK reps/point of contact is the key to whether Far East brands are going to decent UK market share.
@@rob-c. Agreed - We also love what we do so offer a response 7 days a week which is why we have built a good rep. Its no good going to order or build your bike when you finally get capacity to have to wait for a response. We are on it here!
Please do more content like this, may be same model but different expensive/cheaper builds.
And i thought my bike for 2,5k € (lapierre xelius with full ultegra) was expensive.... 4k IS expensive
more appropriate title should be "Outrageously priced bike vs Expensive bike". lol
Cheap Zaffiro tyres on the Elves can almost completely account for the difference... If you're going to compare two bikes at least use good tyres or the same tyres on both....
You should compare that 12k bike to a 2009 Dura Ace rim brake bike. That's what I would like to see.
I've pretty much lost count of the number of videos on CZcams about "super bike" versus some sort of "lesser bike", in this case, one of the better known Chinese brands. And every time, it seems there is some obvious and easily fixable factor that gives the S-works an advantage over the the cheaper frame. In this case it's the tires. Switch out the wheels and see what happens. Why does this seem to happen every single time? I know I'm not alone in suspecting that shill sites like Bike Radar and GCN and all the others know that they can't actually let the > 10k £ € $ "super bike" lose because that might compromise their ability to get free bikes to test etc. But now they know they can't completely ignore emerging eastern brands and retain any credibility. In any case, the flaws in the experimental design here are painfully obvious.
Would be a long stretch starting to change parts on one bike and not the other and still compare. These bikes are available as they are. Any bike can be tweaked to be faster or suit a rider better. Its too many variables to make sense. Those of us who know about bikes can make our own conclusions - you and I did before we saw this video anyway.
Obviously tyres can be swapped out on the Elves for relatively little and you’d still have the near 12k versus 4k comparison.
However this is bike comparison, not a frame comparison. A fair chunk of that 12k is going to be the wheels, so sticking them on the Elves is going to make it a completely different price comparison.
@rob-c. Put a set of $1200 Elite Carbon wheels (ironically now a GCN sponsor) on the Elves and it is game on, but I still come back to the tires in this video being a large and relatively inexpensive factor. Also, most people who have Chinese bikes (I have three) buy the frames, not the complete bike.
£4000,- is not cheap
Just go for a 105 12 speed mechanical and you can get it for 2.7, way cheaper
@@bernardo9202 you can get 11 speed mech 105 for like $500 lol.
@@Silidons91 12 speed for 750, full build 2700
@@Silidons91 2.7 was for the full build price. Not just the groupset
Subjective, expensive to some and not others
Is the elves running on flat tires? They look like riding with VERY low pressure, almost hitting the rim on the road.
My commuter bike (steel) was around $300 when I bought it 10 years ago. However, in terms of fun factor, it’s better than my carbon bike.
If you love riding, any bike can be enjoyable. No need to spend a fortune!
No, no it isn’t better than you carbon bike. You’re saying that because you think reverse snobbery is cool.😅
@@herculesrockefeller8969 In terms of fun factor!! Performance wise, it’s not a match.
What kind of build have you got on the Elves? Why does it weight so much got 4k ?
Deeper rims on the S-works alone should make a small but noticeable difference. Anyway, if you build your own bike you can save a ton of money and there are excellent budget friendly frame manufacturers out there to choose from. I once did a S-works+ build just using a cheap(er) model with same frame, upgrading almost everything and still saved a lot. But some people do not have the time, knowledge or energy to fiddle with bike building - so good there are choices out there!
Have you checked both bikes' tyre pressure? Front wheel on the Elves seems a bit low on pressure, creating a bigger contact surface and tyre deformation, resulting in lost energy and slower ride.
The tyres alone could be responsible for that gap. Tyre tech imo is the most genuine of tech updates we have seen over the past 10 years (compounds not tubeless)
Woudnt say 4k is cheap but id have the elves
4k vs 12k is 1/3rd the price which in that context IS CHEAP!
The crux of the topic is actually exposing the prices of premium brands and actually is great consumer advice regardless, I feel this topic went well over the heads of some or more accurately in one ear, bounced around the hollow dome and left out the other ear... on the upside, you can save on not buying a helmet because there is nothing to save.
Exactly. If you spend a third of the price, you could be right in thinking you’d get a third of the performance. So videos like this are a good yard stick you can apply to a bike nearer your own budget.
I often hear comments from other riders claiming that certain bikes holds speed faster than others. Usually the more advanced and more expensive models gets more nods. My question is if it’s really the case, why the difference between the timing is so small, almost insignificant.
Are the tyres equal?
12k for a bike is laughably ridiculous.
These are bikes made for pros. People are just stupid to buy those.
A fair comparison. I'd choose a cheaper SL8.
coming from the mtb side of the cylcing spectrum, my experience is that at a certain pricepoint there will be a diminishing return of performance vs price.. for example the average user wont notice a diffrence between a bike that alloy wheelset and a carbon wheelset .. even tho the alloy set costs about as much as 1 carbon wheel
I think even when I was racing back in the day I would have still chosen the £4k equivalent bike, which I did back then. Unless I was a pro and getting bikes bought for me the £4K bike is easily good enough imho. If I had more money than sense then I would probably still go for the £4K bike...that's probably why I would have more money than sense lol.
Good ad to elves, but, would much like to see the new Van Rysel with rival axs against the sl8
4k for a bike its STILL ridiculously expensive
Wheels and tyres are the great leveler, and the time gaps here are minimal anyway. Try a series of bikes say £1k, £3k, £6k, £12k with the same wheel/tyre set on each over multiple runs - that would be interesting.
Are the tyres the same?
vittoria zaffiro pro Turbo Rapidair 26
I just don't care. In my real world, I'll never be light enough or fast enough to justify a bike over £1000. More real world bikes for people on a budget please.
When buying bike (or any product), I’d consider manufacturing quality, aftersales support (and perhaps resale value for someone who likes to trade up bikes on FOMO aspect). V4Rs may not be the sleekest bike on the market, but Tadej is still Tadej, no? I’d go with your Aethos → good looking, easy to like, timeless
Hi there, thanks for your input. Just to clarify, we have 34 x 5 star reviews here in the UK and reputation for the highest level of customer service which we are really proud of. We enjoy being part of our riders journey and stay very connected to them. All of our frames come with a 5- year warranty and are ISO and EN approved. In fact, we exceed the latest ISO standard. Having three pro race teams ride Elves, as you can imagine, we have had to withstand a lot of due diligence which is testament to how far we have come as a brand. Hope that gives you a bit more insight into Elves. Totally agree the Aethos is a stunning bike!
@@Elves_Bikes_UK excellent! Please keep up the good work as reputation is ‘more expensive’ than just flashy product. I wonder if Elves can sometimes in the future produces Elves ‘Shire’, a bike for people who love to ride with classic shape, comfortable for all-day riding, brings big smile & peace of mind to its riders, fad-tech be damned (?)
@@abhimawa1 Thanks so much! Have you seen our Eglath frame? It is our all -round endurance bike.
@@Elves_Bikes_UK I have. The black-orange one looks good IMO
These comparisons are pointless, what you're supposed to be testing is which makes you look more like a pro (the bike is the closest most of us are getting to being a pro), and which bike makes you look cooler at the coffee shop. 😂
This is actually the subtext of every review Liam does 😂
Is the front tyre going flat? 1:41
Puzzled that the aero benefit was miniscule🧐
A set of fulcrum race zero wheelset upgrade is all I would need on the lower end bike ....both bikes are great still !
Or get some Elite 50D. Even less and probably just as fadt.
Or just improve the tires.
It's not just bikes. Has anyone purchased a Kuat, Yakima, or Tule bike rack lately? They cost as must as roundtrip airfare between San Francisco and Sydney.
Pretty much Canyon CF SLX (Ultimate or Aeroad) is the best bike value you can get.
£4000 on an Elves? Get a Canyon…
The Elves "bikes" are quite expensive compared to buying the components from them and building it yourself. That said, the Vanyar is still heavy for a "climbing" bike. The Eglath (endurance) is only 100g heavier (frame+forks) and will be more comfortable.
I like the look of the Elves but would put on better wheels
these comparison videos should always be treated as a bit of fun as Liam points out its not scientific, but after that its always obvious that the big bike manufacturers and component makers have forced up and inflated prices to ridiculous levels of expense, as much as various youtube channels have tried the prices can't be justified and there needs to be a reset off pricing to a more realistic price point or sales are going to keep falling and people are going to be put off taking up cycling by the cost, its not just the bike manufacturers, clothing manufactures have got in on the act to and the big companies are charging insane prices for bib shorts and tops, its crazy that bike companies always seem to need to bring out new bars and stems for each new bike in there range instead of sticking with a 2 or 3 bar combinations for there road bikes and getting a few years out of them, all that un necessary R & D gets passed on to the customer, on the 2 bikes in the video, under the paint the Elves will be very different the frame will be built not to fail as its sold direct to customer from China and they will want to avoid frame warranty issues so there will be extra carbon at all junctions and thicker tube walls through out so it will feel different in compliance and weight but still offer great value for money, the issue choosing though in the UK would come down to bike snobbery, what do you want to be seen riding over value for money.
Why is the front tire almost flat? That doesn't seem fair.
I would go down to 105 Di2 and spend the difference on a not-Chinese frame and wheels.
First they say that is not a cientific test, after the test they say that theres is a clear time saving
Apples and oranges.
If you want bike of your dream - just go for it!
No wonder people get put off coming into cycling. Even the so called cheap bike is way beyond the reach of the ordinary person in the street especially if you are only on minimum wage.
How is 4k cheap !! ?
Elves offers custom paint to avoid an all black bike...then sends an all black bike for testing 😬
Hi Matthew. Its SJ here from Elves UK. This is actually on me. This was the first global launch we ran and invested in and I wanted to make sure we could sell the bikes afterwards, so I played it safe. But I totally take your point and feedback on. Thanks for your input.
Why don't you give Java a try. They sell a full carbon bike with internal routing and 105 groupset for £1600
I'll see if we can get one. Liam
Tarmac all day.
Next time pump the tyer in front also 5 - 6 kg when you test, everybody can see that you test with tyer in front thats not correct at the sheap bike !
Put better rubber on Elves will perform miles better for extra £80
I assume they did this with the same tyres
Exactly my thought. Swapping those slow Zaffiro Pros would delete the differences in time between the two bikes.
No it won’t. That’s the whole point. There’s bugger all difference between the bikes as it is. 9 seconds climbing, 2 seconds flat is as close as makes no difference for amateur riders.
Also if the elves had a better wheelset it would have been even. As a owner of a SL8 to me the only benefit of the bikes is it's weight. It's not even faster than my pinarello Paris. I'm about to build up a Chinese bike as light as the SL8. If the bike is good, I'll sell the SL8.
4k id not cheap-but I bought a tarmac sl7 for 2.7k-just go second market.
Tarmac
Differences is negligible and all it comes down to is power and cda.
$4K is cheap these days for a fully built road bike.
$2500 MAX thanks
Shame you didn't swap wheels between rigs. Would have offered another conclusions..... 😈
Anyway, nice video!!
The wheels are part of the price, so why swap them?!
Should've compared the SL8 with the Falath
I was at the Cervelo supplier the other day they were trying to convince me to buy, Cervelo CEO himself showed up. I said nah there's the same chinese carbon frame with Ultegra for $2500 on this site. CEO starts crying and begging and trying to give me discounts LOL I told him I think you're done, not worth it. Good luck in life. He gets all angry and starts sobbing in tears lol so pathetic
Sepeda mahal buat amatir hobby hanya berguna buat menyombongkan sepedanya
Both bikes are far out of my price range
I don’t understand amateur racers forking out 12 grand on a bike. How much do you get by winning a local race? 😂
And replace after crashes, which happens.
Fools and their money are easily parted.......Absolutely nonsensical.....
I don’t think they need prize money. $12k is a lot for me. It’s not a lot for someone who makes $500,000 a year
@@NoahStephens so at amateur level, who are these 12 grand bikes for? People who make 500k per annum who rides 400km a month tops with an FTP that’s barely 3w/kg?
I think this cycling sport/hobby/lifestyle is at a rather awkward position right now.
Do you ask this same question to people who buy more expensive cars? Maybe they just want really good bikes?!
EUR 4000 is cheap?????
Neither cant stand disc brakes
Actually CFD is cheap in mainland China
Between the two if that is all that existed I'd go the Elves.
If your experiments are not scientific, you shouldn't use them to urge consumers in any direction! You know how vulnerable buyers are, especially when bombarded with numbers!
1.4 kg difference 😊
10 sec over 5min, like 2 mins over and hour
The aero between them would be so small, well nothing really, it would come down to tyres and possibly wheels. Both bikes are over priced. The bike industry is destroying itself with pricing and marketing BS.
I WONDER HAVE YOU TOTALLY LOST IT DH YOU TALK ABOUT £4000 AS IF THATS THE F**G NORM SOME YOUNG PERSON GETTING INTO CYCLING NEEDS £ 4000 +++ kit shoes helmet spare es what a DH you are we can all buy on line plenty of full carbon racing bikes 10 x 2 gears good wheels for £ 350 to £ 500 plus the gear another £ 200 and go racing or training or as a commuter Bike Radar or Bike Ripoff .
so they are the same.
Either of those prices for a person-powered bije is a sick joke and rip off compared with the materials, engineering etc that goes into m'cycles!
I think the front tire on that Elves is flat 😂
middle aged professional men have discretionary income for serious hobbies and passions. Get used to it.
That would be me, but I ride a Yoeleo R12 and an ICAN A10 (both with a very good Shimano groupset and top end tires). i'm not a complete idiot. The ICAN is actually insanely good for the $.
@@stuartdryer1352 I totally get that and appreciate it. McIntosh makes amps and B&W makes speakers and Porsche makes 911 Turbos because there’s a market for them. I race a gravel bike, and my tire preference is the Pathfinder Pro. Every time I go to the Specialized Dealer to pick up a set, I ask to see the SL-8 - and they sell every one they get in.
Running out of ideas for videos I see…
No bike justifies $12k.
What a joke. The front tyre is flat on the cheaper bike.
Depending on your wallet and preferences
No
I’m not riding a bike named after an elf. Chinese bike brands have the most embarrassing names 😂
This 4k bicycle looks better than this hell overpriced Speciashitzed😂
First
4000 is cheap? Dude just get to real life, even the 4000 is way to much for normal people with normal lifes.
800€ hand built bike on a 40 year old frame. 👌🏻
4k is cheap ? get a grip, youve become disconnected from the regular rider.