These Are Not The Answers We Were Looking For - Acolyte Season 1 Eps 7 Reaction
Vložit
- čas přidán 25. 08. 2024
- Adam and Jay react, review, riff, and rate the other Point of View episode from the first season of The Acolyte.
Discord: / discord
Merch: previewdmercha...
Patreon - / previewd
Jay’s Twitch - / thatkingbunny
-----
Bonus Action (pReview'd's DnD Actual Play Show): / @bonusactionrpg
pReview'd Gaming Channel: / @previewdgaming
pReview'd Podcast Fix It! - open.spotify.c...
#reactionvideo #theacolyte #starwars #reaction
As has been noted (but in case it was missed) the vergence in the Force is located somewhere on the planet. The witches didn't terraform the planet, the vergence did
It’s the tree with the yellow leaves
@@2323dbarro Pretty sure its the Hole in the ground they were doing the ritual over just like the "Cave" on dagobah and the hole in the rocks on Ahch-To.
@@2323dbarro yeah I think it is too
Also we still are missing details of how the twins were created. One theory is that the witches hijacked whatever the Force was doing to the planet in to help create the twins.
I came here to say this
I think almost everyone made bad choices here. Indara led with the best instincts most of the time but got overruled by others’ misperceptions and then Torbin pulled a Leroy Jenkins through impatience that got a whole lot of people killed. They all reacted to what was happening with unwise decisions. Kelnacca was the only one who didn’t willfully do anything wrong, his mind was being controlled. And it still obsessed him so much he couldn’t free himself from it. Even Sol, who in most cases throughout the show has shown himself as compassionate and honorable, let his emotions rule and heard/saw what he wanted to hear/see. And then they all became part of a coverup.
There’s bad in good people, there’s good in bad people, everyone had some valid points here.
“Your moms a Woompa”
I laughed way too hard at that!!!😂😂😂
team jay! 😂
i completely agree with you jay: the witches were living outside the republic (!) so the jedi had no business not only breaking and entering - twice - and if they had concerns they should have behaved wisely and asked some questions and not acted on their emotions.
like you said, jay - sol saw what he wanted to see maybe because he felt stung by indara's comment on him not having a padawan.
the execution is very debatable (i am very much unsure about it at this point), but the idea of the prime directive entering star wars i love :D
"So what I told you was the truth... from a certain point of view." - Obi-Wan
Dark Side Witch: “Ask me anything.”
Adam: “We just met!”
Me: 😂😂😂
Adam never change my nerd brother. 😂😂
They didn’t terraform anything, the force did. It’s a vergence.
"We're fighting but we are mostly mad at the show" Best series synopsis yet.
"We're fighting but we're mostly mad at the show." - same, fam. Same.
They didn’t terraform the planet
Yeah, according to Leslye Headland in an interview the thing that terraformed the planet is in that big hole all of the witches were standing around.
We also have to remember the context of events. The jedi are clearly the power in the universe. This show has done a good job of portraying them like galactic police officers, who use the mere fact that they are jedi as justification or warrant for anything. In the very first episode we see Yord two seconds from pulling information from a suspect's mind barely a minute into the conversation. Imagine a police state where the beat cops carry laser swords, can control your minds, and have the total conviction that what they are doing is right. And then imagine this police force is made up of children taken from their parents at infancy. Too young to make any decisions for themselves. If you belonged to a 'force cult' or any group that viewed the force (a mysterious and omnipresent force that dictates power in the universe) through any lens other than the Jedi's; you'd have every reason to fear their very presence. The fact that the jedi broke into their home not once, but three different times in pursuit of their children would be tantamount to their worst fears coming true. Psychic samurai cops breaking into your home in the middle of the night, trying to take your children. Just ask any parent who's had their kids pulled from their arms by cops, or by CPS, and tell me the sister's actions were unjustified.
Very. Well. Said. 🙌🏽
You earned my like with the phrase “psychic samurai cops.” Everything else was just gravy!
Adam's comments on how much power the authority should have. Is starting to make me think that he would be known as Moff Adam within the Star Wars universe.
Sorry guys, I'm on Team Acolyte on this one. (But also team Jay about the fault)
Mae started a fire by accident that spread into the electrical systems of an old, poorly maintained former mining base. It makes sense.
M-Count makes sense alongside the spiritual aspects of the Force, it seems to effect the high end of what you can achieve.
The Vergance brought life back to the planet and the witches were exiled there.
The Jedi then did a no-knock raid on some innocents, led by an emotionally compromised padawan and knight against the will of the council. Torbin and Sol are the reason anybody died. Could Mother Anasaya have been more forthcoming? Yes, but the Jedi were still invading their home.
@@playlistb3795 all of this. Well said.
"an old, poorly maintained former mining base"
Thank you for drawing attention to this. How the fire spread so far and so fast was the one thing I found a bit far-fetched, but I’d forgot about this part.
@@sleeper-cassie I felt the same way until I saw this episode. Like a lot of children who accidentally start fires, Mae first tried waving it out (because you think that it will go out the way a candle will if you turn around too fast while it's lit), but that only made it bigger, and it seems to have caused some kind of feedback into the lamp? Possible, depending on how the oil/gas/substance inside the lamp works. She then dropped the lamp, splashing flammable substance onto the floor and the wall, sparking an electrical fire.
Depending on what was being mined in this facility back in the day, the place could have residue of that substance all in the seams of the walls that may be flammable as well. (There is a fire in a coal mine in Centralia, Pennsylvania that has been burning since the 1960s and is *still burning* today, which could have been part of the inspiration for this story.)
Gonna have to disagree. The writing is still not great. Adding further details beyond m-count is a massive mistake. Keep the force mysterious and magical, not scientific
@@aaronmckinney2583 sounds like you’re mad at George Lucas, then…?
Wow, Adam is such a narc. lol The Jedi were in the wrong from the jump. This whole thing was some of that arrogance that got them in trouble when Palpatine showed up.
Wonder how people still don’t get how midichlorians work. Low count is like dumping water on a thick towel. High count is like dumping water on a fishing net. High count means you can let more of the Force flow through you. It’s still spiritual.
Yeah the hoops Adams been jumping through for the show is kinda wild. Also they totally get how M-Count works they just dont like the concept and choose not to accept it.
Jedi: help, my computer's not working
Yoda: tried turning it off and on again, have you?
16:40 Huh, I guess Adam is a "if you're not doing anything wrong, we can search your car/house, right?" kind of person...
Jay's reaction at the end was a lot like mine--there's only one episode left? So...either it's going to be the most rushed, overstuffed finale you could imagine (which, given the writing thus far, isn't impossible), or the creators were so confident that this would earn a second season that the final episode is going to end on a cliffhanger.
That’s pretty much every live action project Disney plus has produced besides prolly the Percy Jackson show n Mando S1 my guy🤣🤣
The plan was always to resolve some things and leave some things open for season 2.
@@jasonmarbach Assuming the finale is the same short length as all the other episodes of the season, I'm struggling to see how they could resolve anything in another 25 minutes without moving ridiculously fast.
@@daquandavis5498 I've yet to see any Disney+ show that had this much narrative left untold going into the finale.
@@grandpallama none of the episodes so far have been under 34 minutes, and they’ve covered a LOT of ground in most of the episodes. It’s really not going to be an issue. But expecting every single little issue and question to be resolved with a little bow on top was never going to happen. That doesn’t really happen in ANY show unless it’s a limited series, which this show never was and never claimed to be.
Not Sol seeing two little girls and following them home while breathing heavily
“Check this man’s holocron.”
I'm wrong for a lot of things...but I'm right in agreeing with Jay. The Jedi severely overstepped here, and it cost a whole lot of people their lives.
If anyone has read Things Fall Apart by Chinua Achebe I get real strong vibes from it. It’s basically the story of colonization from the African POV but it doesn’t hold Africa as this perfect place. But the outcome of two cultures of flawed humans clashing and the tragedy that unfolds.
Read it that book in college and I think of it often. Incredible book.
The smoke monster thing is how the witches teleport. Aniseya was trying to get to Osha, or maybe to teleport Osha to safety.
Frankly I don’t think either side was wrong, just blinded by protectiveness and preexisting bias. If Indara and Aniseya had gotten to talk one on one like they wanted, the whole thing could have been solved without bloodshed.
I think you meant "she was trying to teleport Mae to safety" Sol calling her Osha just showed his inability to distinguish them
And no, pretty sure the Jedi were wrong here. Not breaking into someone's house to take their children makes you not wrong
That essential piece of information would have been nice to have before it was essential. As of now I don't know what she was trying to do. Idk what anyone was doing, or why Sol stabbed her. Everything just HAPPENED. You have to go to CZcams to read comments to find out WHY they happened. That's not good show writing.
A big penultimate episode reveal like this.... we should know the character motivations so thoroughly by this point that some of us start to guess what is gonna happen because it's inevitable. The pieces have been set in motion by the events of the season and the conclusion is looming on the horizon as the characters we've come to know and love get ready to face it. We recognize the flaws they have to overcome to do succeed and we understand their motivations for why they have to.
That's what I mean by everything here just HAPPENED. All of a sudden two characters just randomly started turning into smoke and another one randomly stabbed her. A Jedi Wookie gets randomly controlled by the entire coven, then when he's disconnected the entire coven just randomly dies. The evil twin who's randomly evil AF plays with fire and for some reason that randomly burns down a whole fortress despite that fortress being made of stone.
The whole conflict kicks off cuz Sol is randomly attached AF to the one twin.... not the evil twin... obviously... but the good one. He's randomly in love or something. He imprinted on her. Idk.
Also the sith guy randomly got naked after kidnapping the main character (who's friends he just killed) and was like "R U sure U don't wanna be a baddie?" RAANNDDOOMMM AF 🤦♂
I gave up trying to understand this show a long time ago. Now I'm just here watching this weird confusing train-wreck pull itself up to a stop but I am perpetually in awe each week by the comment's section and anyone who can manage to find cohesive narrative threads to comment on. The idea that you watched this episode and parts of it made sense to you is baffling. I am over here watching the Showrunner equivalent of a Jackson Pollock painting 🤷♂
@@polterkat While I wouldn't say everything is confusing, enough, too much, needs to be figured out by "the experts" who knows the lore and I get from online commentary, lol
I still think it's a decent story, but not great execution, be that because of the writing, the direction, the editing or studio demands I don't know
It’s not teleportation it’s possession, coril literally did it and possessed kelnaca
I agree with Jay and I'm not "wrong". Adam is still working on the assumption that Jedi have the authority to do so but the point of the show is to show the hubris of the Jedi Order. They gave themselves the right to interfere when they deemed it fit to do so. All they have done is enFORCE their beliefs. The sisterhood was a different cutlure that the Jedi deemed against the law because of their fear of not understanding others.
Yes, the Jedi should have checked it out.
As foreign diplomats.
Landing on the planet and examining it before they knew anyone was there? That's totally cool.
Seeing inhabitants out in the wilds? Huh! At THAT point they should have announced their presence and engaged in dialog.
Breaking into the home of strangers, armed and dangerous? Making demands? All that jazz?
That's all bull.
Also they made CRAZY decisions and constantly escalated matters.
🎯 🎯 🎯
So the jedi landed on a planet that they don't control. Then stumbled upon a group of people already living there. Then decided that those people, who were minding their fucking business, must be evil because they were doing religion "wrong". They did zero research and asked zero questions. One of the jedi formed a bond with a child he meet once, a bond so strong he felts it was necessary to takem this child away. Decided that it's best to break into these people's home so they can spy on the children. They decided that these people must be savages and needed to "save" the children by taking at least one of them. They kill a mother in front of her child, kill the whole village, kidnapped a twin after letting the other twin die, then blamed that dead child.... do I have that right?
Are we sure the jedi aren't evil. Because that's some pretty evil shit.
This 100%
All of this
@@ttajohnson15 I’m coming around to the idea that this specific reality (which is ALWAYS how I’ve seen the Jedi Order, at least since the prequels) that the Order might actually not be all that great (despite being home to some great individuals, like Qui Gon and Obi Wan) is specifically what is turning off some folks, like that Thor Skywalker guy and maybe even Adam, too. People for whom the Jedi Order represents truth and goodness and an idealized lifestyle which, frankly, the Order itself has never really lived up to, at least insofar as what we’ve seen in canon. Those people - nominally good, non-toxic, decent folks - seem to be having a visceral reaction to this show telling them, even more directly than the (very direct) way the prequels told us, that large institutions with immense power and basically no oversight almost always get corrupted. It’s a tragedy, but wayyyy too many people seem to be taking it like personal effrontery of their personal lived ethos.
@@jasonmarbachBecause it's too forced. The idea was there in the prequels and is generally accepted that the jedi were arrogant and self righteous because they believed they were the moral standard.
However these ones are all overly emotional, scheming, and disobedient. It's too much to have so many wild card jedi running around. Even the council was like "what are you doing? Chill out and get back to the samples.".
As far as we saw, there was one capricious, arrogant Jedi knight (Sol) and one stupid, selfish, homesick padawan (Torbin). And that was plenty. To act like the entire group was “scheming, overly emotional, and disobedient” is just…not accurate. Nothing in the show established that to be the case. We had an impetuous young knight, sorely lacking in wisdom and experience, and we had a literal homesick kid. Nothing excuses like 90% of their behavior in this, but that’s kind of the point: the Order, despite whatever their collective or individual intentions are, kind of suck. There’s nothing forced in that. At all. Lucasfilm has been establishing that thoroughly for the last 30 years. Long before Disney ever bought them.
I love you Adam, but the Jedi like every adult in this story fucked up. They were all wrong. One was still a child and could not deal with his role in this, so killed himself. The Wookie used his claws and so broke rules, became madclaw and that broke him. Sol killed mom and then raised a child with lies and when she could not deal with her loss and the emotions he was fine with her being gone because she was no Jedi. This whole thing is a mess.
Jay is totally right. Torbin felt guilt for his rash actions leading to the destruction of an entire community. Rashness fueled by his personal desire to go home. He let his emotions control his behavior. To the point where he disobeyed his jedi master and sped away.
I do not believe either of you, put in a similar situation, where your actions led to the death of an entire community, wouldn't feel extremely guilty and remorseful.
Then after 10 years of solitary meditation, thinking about your actions, and a survivor from the community offering you a way out of your torment. He chose the easy way out.
But she messed with his mind before that…
@@alancham4 yeah, the witches aren't free of guilt in what transpired. But if Sol doesn't get emotional over, "saving the girls," and Torbin doesn't get over zealous about using the girls to appease the high council, for permission to return home; then the witches don't give their lives trying to protect themselves. A lot of guilt to go around.
Why do people always say suicide is the easy way out? That's extremely toxic and gross.
@@DarthTingleBinks Because then you don't have to own up to your problems, and hopefully improve yourself. It's easy to give up. It's harder to persevere.
Not saying I agree, I'm just saying that's part of the reasoning.
@@sorroww0lf179You blame Torbin yet Sol was the one who took the lead to breach the Covens fortress again. Yes Torbin ran off, but Sol caught up to him and told him we have to get the twins. Sol is the adult here.
Guys.... they have established through the recent shows that an M-Count only says your potential level of power in the force. EVERY LIVING BEING has an M-Count and every living being could use the force.... but some beings will have a better connection because of their M-Count.
Team Jay. They already had direct orders from the council not to involve with the witches but they still messed up things. I mean Torbin and Sol 🤦🏻♂️
They didn't terraform the planet they found it like that. Also if you go into someone else's home and murder them that is a crime. The kid killed himself because he caused all those deaths.
After making master with in 6years and 10 years in force trace , all because he wanted to go home, so he takes the poison 😂😂😂 the reason given doesn't match his act. But if it works for u.
Jedi broke into their homes, not once but twice. They could've easily knocked at the front gate--but didn't.
They were squatting in an old mining site. Its not even their property.
@@Greenhawk4 Nobody on a dead planet that they helped bring back to life? It's their property. Plus, squatters rights if you want to call them squatters.
@@marcusmcgill4423 First of all it wasn't them that brought it back to life and second of all they don't have any ownership as there is no one to transfer the rights to them so it still isn't theirs.
@@Greenhawk4 The vergence along with the creation of Osha and Mae and what ever else the coven were doing all had a part in the planet thriving first of all (your words). Secondly, they can stake claim since there was nobody there with ownership.
@@Greenhawk4 who's property was it? How do you know it wasn't abandoned? How did sneaking in deescalate the situation vs knocking at the door?
How does Sol feel about the end result of him jumping the gun, rushing to conclusions and guilt because he failed to be patient and exercise self-restraint? There's a reason why there are protocols to prevent good intentions resulting in tragic outcomes.
I don't think they're implying that the witches terraformed the planet. The presence of the vergeance caused the planet to thrive, which attracted the witches(and later the Jedi) to the planet, where the head witch harnessed it to create the twins.
A convergence of the Force could be a large gathering of Force energy which then breeds new life like how life sprang up in the entire galaxy from the Wellspring of Life in the first place which would definitely attract the attention of the Jedi and Sith alike. Secondly, the Jedi broke into the witches home twice, Sol was spying on them, and Torbin was very trigger happy to potentially kidnap Osha and Mae to get off the planet, in the right they definitely were not but of the 4 that were there Sol and Torbin were the ones at fault.
This episode is a huge lesson on the necessity for communication.
Same with HotD
Seems like media is trying to tell us something
I'm sorry, the Jedi did PLENTY wrong. The witches did plenty wrong, too. The only good ones here were Aniseya and Indara.
these witches arent nightsisters btw. easy tell Black smoke vs Green Mist :D the planet coming back to life through the vergence in the force was strange. The witches creating the girls through the vergence is interesting . a vergence is a force nexus point. Anakin was a vergence. the girls are somehow a proto version of him / also a probably a force Dyad like rey and ben . The jedi did a bunch of stuff wrong here. Sol was selfess and wanted a padawan for some reason it had to be osha even know he mistakes her for mae all the time . torbin killed himself because of the guilt of getting a coven killed (even know it wasnt his fault) , being Scared by a wookiee (wookiee's are labeled madclaws if they use their claws ) 16 years of a barash vow where ya meditate on the force who knows what good and or bad things it showed him . Its also not about who was in the wrong Both the jedi and the coven both coulda dealt with it better.
Anakin was a Vengeance, or Vergence? Dyad.
Torbin's eager to leave was the trigger of the event. not his fault but his responsability.
I suspect that having his mind invaded and pushing his desire to leave backfired on the witches as well as this may have influenced his impulsive
behaviour
@kiorili if Torbin hadn't acted in Haste in his compromised state, none of last act of the episode happens. He probably feels entirely responsible for Kelnacca, the death of 50 innocents, and the cover up, then spends the rest of his life wallowing
@@playlistb3795 indara told Sol to stop him. And we saw torbin listening sol. But au contraire he take that like a excuse to do what he want
Been waiting for this 🎉🙌🏾
Also, the Kelnacca fight was crazy! Looked like a whole raid boss, pushed the party to the brink 🤣
That was an incredibly disappointing reaction from Adam. More aligned with Jay on this one.
It’s incredibly interesting Adam failed to remember that the arrows were not loosed on Torbin until after Sol does the worst thing a space cop could do to a POC in a tense situation, by needlessly killing them without all the information at hand because they felt “threatened”. So Adam saw the white character get attacked after the Jedi attacked someone defenseless first and saw cause for senseless killing even when the Jedi not once, not twice, but on three occasions, trespassed onto these people’s home. Just because Jedi are presented as heroic doesn’t make everything they do heroic.
At no point during this show is it explicitly stated that this coven did what you chose to infer and “force-terraformed” the planet. The most we learn is that Aniseya tells Koril that she told her this planet would be a safe haven for their coven. I just don’t see how you could make such bad leaps in your conclusions unless you were being incredibly biased.
It’s really unfortunate and telling, Adam, that you saw a different culture of Force users and applied the same sentiment of wrongness and evil that the Jedi do, much like provincial white people would do with any culture outside their own. You held all these internal biases about any other Force user that aren’t Jedi and viewed the Witches prejudicially. From a certain point of view, sure, you can poorly argue that everything the Jedi did was “justified”, but that is such a narrow-minded and rather blind view of how this entire situation was being presented.
Consider why Torbin takes his Barash Vow. His immaturity and brashness led to an entire community to die when they were living alone and peacefully among themselves before the Jedi interfered under false pretenses. Torbin took on the Barash Vow as it was originally intended, a form of atonement and penitence. It’s worthwhile to note that the Jedi the vow is named after let her own biases guide her into escalating a conflict to a negative outcome.
Consider why Sol instructs the padawans, “Your eyes can deceive you. We must not trust them.” Why would a Jedi Master like Sol instruct padawans that way without learning the hard lesson he did in Brendok? He saw what he wanted to see and because he was led by fear, he killed Aniseya without understanding anything that was happening. Look at the way he didn’t fight back against Koril, because he was reeling from the wrongness of his actions.
Consider why Aniseya tells them “Someday those noble intentions you all have will destroy every Jedi in the galaxy”. The writers chose that line for a reason. The Jedi are not infallible as we are led to believe and we have seen this time and time again. Their dogma doesn’t make them right in every situation and we see what befalls the Jedi as they allow the galaxy to fall into war and sow the seeds of their own destruction during the Prequels.
The Acolyte is very much a flawed show and I have as many quibbles with it as I find really enjoyable parts of the narrative. But it’s not the fault of the show if you bring your inherent biases to make as bad a read of the situation that the Jedi did.
Outstandingly said, thank you. We all must reassess our inherent biases from time to time, such endeavors are extremely healthy. Very much agree with what you said here.
agreed
👏👏👏
Torbin didn’t do anything wrong?!?! WHAT?!?
The Jedi were being cops exhibiting a bunch of cop behavior
Jay is absolutely correct. The counsel told them not to interfere. If they suspected anything, they should have advised an investigation team to come there. The fact that they felt that they needed to hide the details proves that they knew they messed up.
Also, the kid knew the deaths were his fault, even if he was under the influence, that's why he self unalived.🖖😎👍
1) A bunch of bureaucratic investigations is almost always the wrong way to go about a situation that demands immediate action. To keep it in the Star Wars galaxy, bureaucracy is how Palpatine came to be Emperor. A whole bunch of BS prevented Anakin from getting what he wanted (which was pretty simple -- essentially to just live a life with the one he loved...and to avoid sand. Sand gets in your butt). Similarly, the point of The Last Jedi, a lot of the Rebels and Clone Wars series, and this series (sucky as it is) is that the Jedi are an entirely fallible institution who decided they, and they alone, get to decide who wields the Force. I'm all for exploring that idea, except that this show is terrible. I say that as a die-hard Star Wars nerd.
2) Please don't use "unalived." It's called suicide. As someone who lost a loved one to suicide, this "unalived" BS is insulting. It's harsh, it hurts, and candy-coating it with friendlier language drives me crazy.
@misterderp4566
1 - I'm sorry for your loss, but you will not dictate my language. I have lost everyone in my life to many different unalivings. I will use the words I am comfortable with. I suggest you not take it personally. I will not apologize.
2 - I'm sorry that you have a problem with proper procedures to what amounts to a military organization, but steps are put in place to prevent things like what happened. That team was illequipt to handle an investigation of that type, and with the speed of the responding team (when they were summoned), it appears that very little time would have been lost. When they had a suspicion the they should have called in the proper team.
Hubris is the sin of the self-righteous. 🖖
@@sineaterdred1 "Hubris is the sin of the self-righteous." Do you see the irony there, saying something like that right after stating that you will not apologize?
@@misterderp4566
It's our sin
@@sineaterdred1
If you get to tell me not to dictate your language, you don't get to tell me what sin I've committed.
I have a hunch where this is headed, and a pretty good sense of you as a person, but let's cut it off here. This channel is for fun and joy -- I mean Fix It exists to make things that suck better. Here is not the place for this.
Sol: I feel Osha should be my Padawan.
Proceeds to confuse them visually, coaches her during the Jedi test and then needs to wait for them to say each others names before knowing which is which to save Osha.
Dude really needed to step back from the situation.
Also Indara murdering the coven and hiding everything makes her by far the worst. Of everyone she knew better. She should have reported everything. That takes her from accidental manslaughter to criminal.
The Jedi's rule of cutting off and forcing down your emotions has always been one of their two biggest problems because when a Jedi feels a deep strong connection or emotion they are not prepared for it. The other major issue being that they are an organization that refuses to govern itself but prefers to be a tool for others to use.
I did NOT expect a Girl Squad reference but I am living for it!
Torbin did nothing wrong? Common dude. He disobeyed the order of the superior and the order of the council. He was the first to draw a lightsaber. But most importantly, he had nothing to do there at all. The same blame falls on Sol. He should have stopped Torbin at the walls. The two set off an unfortunate chain of events... Where we have 50 dead witches...
I don't think the Jedi terraformed the planet. I think the Force vergence naturally created life and the witches were just there tapping into it.
Those witches aren't nightsisters
Just another coven similar to the ones we had seen in Tales of the Empire.
After breaking into someone else's home, twice, the Jedi have no (moral) high ground to stand on. Nothing they do is excusable
or legal... since this was outside the boundaries of The Republic
@@BaronesaReturns Agreed. But then, also, nothing they did was illegal, either.
@@grandpallama Pretty sure breaking into someone's home to steal their children away is always illegal. There may not be an authority to prosecute you, didn't make it not illegal 🤔
@@MrNathansdadYou are confusing legality and morality. It is never MORAL to kidnap kids, but it may very well not be illegal.
@@davidmcleod5133 Nope, not confusing it at all. If it is not legal, it is by default illegal. Outside of their jurisdiction it is not legal, I e. illegal, for the Jedi to grab kids.
Everyone except Osha jumped the gun here. No one tried to deescalate the situation and acted what i can only define as irrationally and selfishly, and where quick to resort to violence. Which isn't the Jedi way at all
@@thewanderingronin5433 Indara didn’t and the Jedi Council told them to leave the coven alone. She was just overruled by Torbin being brainwashed and Sol fearing for the girls’ lives.
@@nomisunrider6472 Her mistake was covering it up. For reasons I don't understand
@@thewanderingronin5433 Yeah, but it wasn’t an impulse. It was looking at all the options and figuring that at this point, Sol being arrested would do more harm than good. She was wrong down the line, but in that moment I can see why she’d choose that.
@pReviewd I'm with Jay. The Jedi should've minded their own business. When they got the news that the Council said to leave them be, Torbin and Sol should have.
Adam. Take a moment. Rewatch this. Think it over. "Torbin didn't do a lot wrong." He was a bit bigoted, racist, and trigger happy. The Jedi are cracking. The wookie using his claws to harm someone (doesn't matter he was brainwashed) is MINIMUM exile among his kind. It's meh in just, chemistry. Less than meh honestly. But the bulletpoints are there and canon now.
I don't think it's necessarily about which party was in the wrong here. It was just people within each party acting on preconceived notions about the other party and generalizing. That said, I think that if Indara had pushed back against Sol a bit more and gone in herself the first time, things might have gone differently. Indara and Aniseya might have been able to just talk it out.
☮
I agree with Jay. The jedi were in the wrong.
I love how this entire series just paints the Jedi as the real villains of the galaxy. SMH
@@DRFOP Maybe not villains, but definitely shows some serious jedi hypocrisy.
@@DRFOPthey are not portrayed as villains lol just as flawed characters which the jedi have been shown to be countless times
I think between the damage done at the elevator and the fire at the Osha's door controls, it created a series of critical system errors leading to what happened in the base
Lots of assumptions from Sol and a lot of prejudice from both sides + Torbin just wanna go home which was kind of dumb..! 😅
Indara and the Council said no. 👀 Sol was being selfish af. He clearly wasn't ready to take on a Padawan. Also COMMUNICATION, people! 🤦♀️ It could have been prevented if they just talked instead of breaking into their home 2 times without permission, and without turning into smoke/dust and not going straight to stabbing Aniseya out of fear etc etc. If she had told him that she was going to let Osha go with them right away she didn't have to get killed. That was not a smart move from any of them. 😅 I don't think Sol can tell Osha and Mae apart since they are ONE being. Only up close when Mae's "force/magic tattoo" is visible and/or if he sees Osha's arm tattoo he can tell them apart.
I hope we'll get some answers to what Quimir has to do with the "sisters" in the last episode.
So, as stated in another comment, the part with turning to smoke is how the witches teleport. Aniseya was trying to teleport herself and Mae to safety, because Korril started to attack. Aniseya cried out "No!" as she began the teleportation. Sol, having misidentified Mae as Osha, Sol sees her start to disappear in smoke, and evidently took this as Aniseya trying to harm her. That is why he stabbed her, and feeling so guilty when he realized his mistake, he wouldn't really fight Korril.
He went in with preconceived notions, unfortunately. The way Korril approached the girls in the woods looked, from his perspective, menacing. Then he sees Aniseya "attack" the girls inside because he only saw part of the training. He sees the witches prepping for a ceremony. And there is the conflation of the word "witch" with Nightsisters (they ARE NOT the same thing, and I wanna beat Filoni over the head for making everyone think they are) so witches prepping for a ceremony MUST mean evil things happening. And since there are only 2 children here, it does look suspicious.
He IS right to say that _IF_ no one else is looking out for these girls, that would be the job of the Jedi. If you see children being hurt/abused, if something looks off to you about the way a child is being treated, it SHOULD be reported to the proper authorities. However, he is making snap judgements and acting on them without permission.
Mae misquoted Aniseya. She was told that everyone must walk through fear, and they sacrifice a PART of themselves. But given what image Sol has been building up from his observations, that sounds bad.
We still don't have the whole story, so I will assume it will be clearer after the finale.
i've always been a lover of the Jedi. the Jedi though, are the perfect example of mainstream religion - they butt in everywhere, they're never wrong, the amount of stuff that's covered up just to save face .... they were wrong here. like, i genuinely believe Mother Aniseya smoke monstered not to go after Sol but to whisk Mae away to safety but ... here we are. and here will be a hundred(?) years later when Unca Palps arrives.
Aw I wanted to see you guys thoughts on the credits music.
Headland said in an interview recently. "The planet was not nearly destroyed"
Both sides were at fault on this. Sol for his eagerness for a padawan, torbin for wanting any excuse to get back home, the lady zabrak for being the too protective and mother aniseya for pulling the teleportation when a big echoy voice would done things much better
She wasn't teleporting, she was possessing Mae. She was going to let Osha go, but take Mae.
Im with Jay on this, If Sol had listened to Carrie Ann Moss everytthing would have been good
No one holds total blame.... but everyone holds some blame. If people on all sides had taken a minute to think and talk... none of what happened here would have happened.
The Jedis were wrooooooong...
sol getting the twins confused (despite claiming to have some “destined connection” with osha) versus qimir immediately being able to tell osha apart from mae is very interesting too, makes you questions everyone’s hidden motivations… sol seems a bit… off? desperate for connection? so does qimir, but he has fully embraced his darkness, so he isn’t spiralling with guilt. i hope we unpack more of it in the finale
If you close your eyes, and listen to Mother Aniseya, tell me that you dont hear Cercei Lannister. Her voice, not her craziness + "keep it in the family" ways.
Yes... Yaaaas (in her best memeable moment from Celebration)
I believe that everybody was at least partially responsible, however the only thing I don't understand is why may was so upset with Carrie and Moss's character in the very beginning she seemed to show the most anger towards her and yet she seemed to be the least involved of the Jedi in the final events directly against her
I think her relative rage was mostly incidental. Indara was just the first team member she came across. Mae was angry at the team, and she let it out on Indara. Things got out of control later (so much so that Mae planned to turn herself in to Kelnakka).
sol was giving Christian missionary in this episode fr
Edit: i also think anyone who has studied colonialism can see the similarities between the jedi and colonial settlers, i know it’s a fantasy world but i’d try to keep an open mind when it comes to narratives of cultural clash/authoritarianism! it’s always important to remember power imbalances and how it can drastically change the context, even the council told them they were overstepping
I think I’m ready for Star Wars to go back to whimsy fun adventures with Din and Grogu, or Ahsoka kicking ass for twenty minutes straight or maybe even just Luke rebuilding the Jedi School with Ahsoka, Mara, Corran, Kyp, Saba and Kyle
And also the adventures of Lambda!!
"Maybe a power strong enough to split one consciousness into two bodies?" That's quite the leap.
You guys are explaining perfectly why the conflict makes sense and then being like “I don’t get it!” Lol
The electrical fire was silly but it didn’t melt any stone far as I saw
*"Osha wants to go with the Jedi and I have decided to let her, let me inform them of such by randomly turning into a smoke-demon, I'm sure they won't react hastily, I mean it's not as if I just recently used my magic to attack/threaten them."*
"The Nightsisters did nothing wrong, the Jedi should have left them alone."
"They attacked Torbin, and could weaponize a planet by terraforming with the force."
PREVIEW'D: CIVIL WAR.
Jedi were in fact terrible. Sol saw and believed what he wanted and then forced himself to be the saviour when he didn't need to be.
"Why did you turn into a smoke monster" hahahaha
People think that Sol is out of character in this episode, but this is Sol 16 years ago, more reckless, insecure, not yet tempered by the wisdom of experience or restrained by regret. The main issues with the story wasn't what happened, but what they didn't show:
Both Sol and Torbin's motivations weren't fleshed out enough. Clearly there was more going on that we needed to know about for both of them. The script alluded to Sol being restless and insecure about not yet having a padawan, and this desperation to prove himself or find meaning as a Jedi (his frustration with the Jedi council for not seeing him as worthy of being a master/having a padawan?) made him make brash choices and false assumptions that suited what he wanted. This would explain how he could have convinced himself, in the urgency and confusion, that the twins' needed protecting from their mother.
Torbin clearly had deeper reasons for wanting to return to Coruscant. If they'd only given the audience insight into some personal pull, for example perhaps someone he loved was ill or in trouble back home, and he needed to get back to them. This would further comment on the flaws of the Jedi for making the members of their order conceal their emotional attachments, and the harmful consequences of this.
I honestly think that everything else in the episode made sense (the other witches didn't necessarily die from being severed from their spell). But making us fill in the missing pieces ourselves is arguably just as bad writing as writing pieces that don't fit.
I'm leaning Team Jay right now. I don't think the witches did themselves any favors with the infighting and not talking/de-escalating things a bit more, but it still wouldn't have happened if Sol and Torbin had listened to Indara and not played with their jump to conclusions mat.
I’m 100% in agreement with Jay. The planet was interesting, yes. But the Jedi invaded the home of these women and tried to take their kids. What person wouldn’t fight that. It doesn’t make the Covenant wrong. And the fact that they are Jedi doesn’t make Indara and Sol right.
specially when the jedi order doesn't recognize other force philosophies. the witches said the jedis persecute them for that
Ok I will say this episode really made me dislike the Jedi even more. Really stepping into stuff because they "know everything" that is good. The Jedi should have left them alone.
But also Mae, shouldn't have said "sacrifice".
Mae was a kid and misinterpreted what she was told earlier.
Mae was a child growing up in an isolated religious community who never had any contact with outsiders. It would not have really crossed her mind that Sol did not understand what was happening.
The Jedi all had the best intentions and yet things ended in utter tragedy. To me this is a clear indicator of a systematic problem with the Jedi Order and the way the jedi are trained and educated. The Jedi are brought up in a monastic order and yet seem to completely lack discipline.
Mae was a child. The adults jumped to conclusions because it fit a narrative they already had about a culture they didn’t understand
Adam's response to Indara mind-f*cking the witches is just gold ✨️ 👌 😅
I really have no clue how this show wraps up
Resolving some things and leaving some things open for the second season was always the plan.
Neither does Leslye Headland.
I see why y’all changed the thumbnail lol
Seems like the conflict between you too made it even outside the video lol 😂
Love you guys !!
I "think" this show might be laying the foundation for whatever happens with the Night Sisters we saw in Ahsoka and why they returned to Dathomir. I think Marrok (suit of farts) we saw in Ahsoka, Acoylte witches and whatever comes next in Ahsoka are all tied together, and then it builds to Filoni's movie.
Also, Knights of Ren is tied into it as Kylo Ren's theme music has played multiple times during this show.
The Jedi were ENTIRELY wrong. Wtffff
I personally think that she fed Torbin the wish to go home... and that caused Torbin to act compulsively to prove emergence.
Mei misunderstood her mother's words and described something that sounded worse.
Sol saw and misunderstood events that were happening that made him fear for the girls compounded by his desire for a Padawan.
She was trying to teleport away with Mei, but Sol thought she was killing Mei with some kind of magic attack and struck her down not understanding.
Not sure what you're mad at. All of this was a collection of errors brought on by assumptions....
The witch clan already had reasons to mistrust and hate the Jedi. Sol thought the girls were in danger. Torbin's desires had been pumped up by witch-magic making him act rashly. The fire led to a domino effect of damage through the facility. Mei assumed all the Jedi were guilty. Osha believed the story she was told. It was all miscommunication that led to death of innocents and a direct violation of orders from the Jedi council.
I think you guys are being way too hard on this sequence of events.
To your first point - In ep 5, Osha tells Yord how her mom gets in people's heads and stays there. So fortified or not, some of that push to leave could well have still been there. On top of the embarrassment of being controlled.
Still a super dumb move on his part, but I can kinda get it. They were the ticket out and he was done with that planet.
“The Jedi did nothing wrong” is a really upsetting thing to hear Adam say. Man.
They really didn’t. They acted (psychically attacked Padawan aside) from good intentions and understandably with the knowledge they had.
He was a fool all told.
I am also of the camp “the Jedi did things mostly right” in the prequels too. Their biggest mistake was training Anakin at all, and handing him to a rookie knight to train.
@@jasonmarbach this what Disney wants u to come away with, the Jedi bad and oppressors , even though the situations their put in their actions in some these moments is justified!! , hey turn into smoke monster with black eyes in front of me I'm stabbing u to!😂 Then try to make in the wrong having mother anasaha say, " I was going let OSHA go with u " 😂😂🤣🤣 it has no emotional weight cause it poorly written.
@@fredrickgarrettsr2632 It lacked emotional weight for you because it made little sense to you, but that’s not a show failure, my guy. That’s a media literacy issue for you. Or an empathy issue. Or both.
Breaking and entering 3 times, the latter of which is with the specific intent of kidnapping one or both kids from this coven who were just out here minding their own business *beyond republic space* , all based on the misunderstanding and wild assumptions these Jedi (Sol and Torbin specifically) made…people who are acting like that’s okay are hard for me to take seriously.
@@jasonmarbach💯
It was a series of unfortunate misunderstandings and snap assumptions/judgements that got everyone into this mess.
Team Jay all the way. Jedi were in the wrong and Sol is a creep now imo
Im with Jay. They couldve left that coven alone. Sol eagerness got the best of him.
Thanks to Jay and Adam! 🌑 The "we must be sacrificed" misquote little 'Mae' conveyed to 'Indara' and 'Sol' had a huge impact. They literally thought the girls were in mortal danger. 'Aniseya' actually said, "It is about sacrificing a *part* of ourselves". 🔸 It's also wild to learn that 'Sol' was imposing his own wants (to have a Padawan... even though he might not be ready) onto the situation. He almost lost his temper with 'Indara' at the end... a very un-Jedi-like conflict that adds to his motivations. 🔸 And don't get me started on 'Torbin' being all immature from boredom and homesickness. 🔸 'Indara' and 'Kelnacca' turned out to be the most reasonable ones. 🔸 A bunch of well-meaning mistakes, cascading to tragedy.
My reaction was the same as yours. This is what we were waiting for. THIS? This could have been in Episode 3.
The vergence is the whole point. The witches created at least one with the twins, and apparently also the creation of life on the lifeless mining world which drew the Jedi to investigate, since as Sol said, that is very important to the Jedi. Qui-Gon also believed that Anakin was the result of a vergence, and that was why he insisted upon training him. Someone is using the Force to create life, and the Jedi make every effort to insure there is no excessive use of the Force beyond their monastic traditions. They don't want something like the Sith returning after centuries of relative peace.
The explosions in the power core were likely the result of the old wiring and machinery, and whatever residue there was from the ores. The place was probably a powder keg in the first place, and I doubt there were many journeyman engineers among the witches. They moved there because it was abandoned due to the disaster, so why would anyone go there and discover them?
It is looking more and more like Brendock was spared severed damage following the hyperspace accident.
When Indara looked up at the moons, did you notice how on.y one moon had a debris field ring around it? If the biosphere had been wiped out, then there should have probably been a ring of debris surrounding the planet, just like the one moon.
The planet’s biosphere survived unscathed. It is far too heavily developed if everything was wiped 100 years ago.
However, the real red flag are the creatures that Kelnacca has been roasting. They are found on other planets across the galaxy.
Jedi were wrong, but also I'm inclined to always distrust them as an organization in most cases, so this is pretty unsurprising.
I'm team Jay...sorry Adam you're still awesome but you know the saying 'you don't start nothing there won't be nothing '? That's really applicable here. The Jedi started a series of events by committing what we'd call a 'home invasion ' not just once but twice. Any threatening acts undertaken by the witches thereafter - even the hotheaded acts of mother Korril - were in the context of trying to defend their home, family and children. I'd probably do the same tbh I'm such a mama bear LOL. And yeah it sounds like the vergence brought the dead planet back to life not the witches. They just took advantage of its power ✌️😁#istilllovestarwars
The Jedi were absolutely wrong. I don’t get why you think what they did was okay Adam.
Team Jay, the jedi should have just left them alone
Adam 1000%. Jedi are cops and Mae said they had to be sacrificed. They performed a wellness check and Koril attacked Torbin. Also, turning into a ghost and scaring the shit out of the cops wasn't a good idea either. They never said they were taking either of the girls and Koril attacked. This is 100% Koril's fault.
The Jedi have a duty to help where they can. Sol thought the girls were in danger and so he wanted to investigate. At no point did the Jedi attack anyone, they were just asking questions, and asked the girls if they would like to be trained. One said no, one said yes. Torbin did indeed pull a Leeroy Jenkins, which was obviously the wrong choice. The night sisters were overly aggressive, the mother (Annisea?) chose to act in the sketchiest way possible and forced Sol into making a split second decision in the defense of himself, a Padawan and Mae (or so he thought). Then the night sisters decided to (for reasons that are lost to the void) link all of their life forces to one of the jedi and then set him on the rest of them... The only possible outcome there was their collective death. The Jedi here are not perfect (no one is), but they didnt commit any kind of heinous attrocity that the writers are trying to make out
Definitely team Jay. This episode is so disappointing. I like where they were trying to go but the execution was terrible. This would have worked better if there were short flashbacks throughout the series. The motivations for Sol and Torbin were rushed and felt forced into the story at the end. Hopefully the finale brings it home.
The witches don't appear to have terraformed anything. The Jedi came in and made poor decision after poor decision, based on their own misunderstandings of what was happening within the coven and due to Sol's own emotions getting in the way of his judgment. Torbin made the fateful decision that caused the conflict that night, which led to the death of 50 or so witches, including (in his mind) Mae. I'd say causing the death of 50+ beings would be a pretty weighty thing to have on your mind. Kelnacca went all MadClaw, a big issue for a Wookie, leading to his decision to exile himself. Sol killed an innocent woman after misunderstanding her intentions. He also let a child fall to her death. Indara did the least wrong, but still went along with covering the whole situation up and keeping it from the Jedi Council.
I will say on the topic of Jedi/Dark side, etc I almost always agree with Adam on these debates, but I gotta say I'm totally team Jay here. (And that bothers me on a meta level, as I'm not fond of the story direction but I guess that's life).
The Jedi came in here like over zealous CPS or police here. The only reason Sol had to suspect the children were in danger were due to his own biases against "witches" (and his own desire for a padawan) and Brendok isn't even in their jurisdiction being outside of the Republic. Would you take kindly to people literally hacking your security and "asking your permission" to test your children, and then secretly telling them how special they are and planting the idea in their head they are destined to come with them? Honestly that was borderline grooming behavior and it made me deeply uncomfortable even in the previous episode.
Now, the weird thing is, I do think there might have been something shady going on and that might actually be WHY Aniseya was so willing to let Osha leave - maybe she knew she could save at least one of them, because otherwise I think it's really weird to be like 'oh, it's what she wants, so sure, she can leave!'. Like...my 8 year old might want to join a travelling circus but I'm still not going to let them. However, the Jedi did not help matters.
Of course, Aniseya and Koril had their own contributions (Aniseya spooking Torbin is part of what led to the disaster) but they were still ultimately the ones on the defensive. The Jedi Council was right to tell them they'd already interfered too much (they need a Prime Directive for sure) and to leave.
I think it's fine the Jedi were studying what seemed to be a strange occurrence in the Force, but they definitely went about their interactions with the others in a weird way.
So I guess holding up a broken heavy bridge was easier than just grabbing both light girls to safety. God this writing and not knowing Jedi stinks.