ANGRY COP Attacks EMT - Was he right?
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- čas přidán 3. 04. 2022
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Officer Ego in my opinion is 100% wrong. Both were in high stress situations, one used his training, the other allowed his emotions to overcome him.
Why not call the police angels or saints who are never wrong?
The most fundamental weakness, from the police, FD or EMS do not have data on the medical history of the person they face with the risk of life and death on that person.
Therefore, they get immunity from criminal prosecution if something goes wrong, but if this privilege is abused it's very fatal and deadly.
In other words, there is a moral responsibility to get the privileges given by the people to officers and not to become tools of terror or treat people like trash.
The question is, are there not enough 5 or 6 officers to handle 1 person? Do you need help using a Taser or do you need 100 officers to help?
Several (to many people vs the police) cases of injury, permanent trauma to death due to use of tasers, injections, military-style shootings from reckless arrest tactics by police.
Officer in my opinion is 100% megalomania clown.
I would NOT want you as my medical responder if you would not protect me from an out of control cop.
The police officer was 100% out of line. Regardless of what the article says, services are not going to call out other services like that. I'm sure there was an apology of some type after this, shook hands, and went on their way.
If it's an EMS call, EMS is in charge and PD is there for scene safety and the safety of the medics. Fire call, FD is in charge and PD is there for scene safety and the safety of the FD. Unless the scene safety escalates to where EMS or FD can't do their job(s).
The EMT is 100% out of line for grabbing the police officer. If the cop get suspended, the EMT should get charged. Or they can do the adult thing and both talk about it after the incident.
Also that scene was rapidly becoming less safe, the police are charged with maintaining order and safety of all of the people on the scene.
@@norestkev I don't agree since the patient is the medics responsibility. Just because they wear a badge doesn't make them above what other services are doing or right. If an officer parks in front of the fire building and the fd pushes the cruisier out of the way is the chauffeur out of line? It started out as a misunderstanding. I can see the office even thinking it was one of the by-standers tugging on his shoulder. The officer is the one that took it to the next level pushing the medic across the street pinning him to the cruiser.
@@stang7043 The patient was acting in a violent manner, injury or not it is the offciers responsibility to maintain order and control of the situation. I wouldn't expect FD or EMS to try and contain a person acting in that manner. It's not their responsibility, they are not trained in restraining violent people, and they do not have the tools to do so. Once that person becomes violent it's no longer EMS's scene, it's PD's. The EMT had no place interfering with the officer controlling the patient and certainly should not have grabbed the officer. I understand you think it was inappropriate for the officer to drag the EMT to the car and yell at him, however the EMT could've easily been placed under arrest. I don't know about you but I don't think the EMT should be arrested in the situation. The officer giving the EMT a good ass chewing was the best action at that moment.
@@norestkev whether or not it's the officer's responsibility depends on local laws, however EMS & FD are (in general) trained to deal with people that have LOC issues and the challenges that can arise from them, to an extent. It's up to the attending to escalate and *request* assistance up until the point a law is broken. EMTs shouldn't touch cops, usually, but if cops interfere with the ability of the EMT to deliver care - especially when no law has been broken and they're just getting right in the way, the cop needs to back off. In this case, that cop seems 100% in the wrong (yes we're armchair quarterbacking and we weren't there, but that's the point of the video and this discussion). He threatened to taze the patient (who was quite likely drunk or otherwise not processing normally so it's not like he's likely to comply or even comprehend) and when the EMT warned him not to the cop decided the best thing to do was to... remove the EMT from providing patient care and... pin him to a cruiser? This is the same cop who appears to have already lost his cool (unless he's only acting amped up to control the crowd... which appears incredibly unlikely but is possible). For all intents and purposes this appears as though the cop felt it necessary to ensure that EMT knew that no matter what the cop is in charge and everyone will respect his authoritay. First he lost control of the crowd, then he lost his temper. That cop, if he had control and composure, could have easily engaged the EMT *after* everyone was safe (remember - while he was bitching the EMT out he *wasn't* acting as a resource to maintain scene safety), and taken care of, and *calmly* informed him of how and when to communicate effectively during an engagement. Instead he lost his shit and was insanely unprofessional. The EMT could've possibly tried to more calmly let the cop know tazing the patient would put him in danger, but given the volume and adrenalin levels already present it's unlikely it would've even been heard let alone recognized.
To me this is pretty cut and dry: Tasing a guy, drunk or not, with a possible brain injury is pretty reckless. First consider they have the man power to restrain him, because they did. Second, if the cop tases him, and he falls and hits his head, again, that could be life altering or fatal. Many cops are just hammers looking for nails, and this cop definitely seems like a hammer in the way he was acting. Good on the medic for speaking up for his patient.
Just because the officer diuspalyed a taser doesnt mean he was going to tase the person. In taser training it is taught to dispay the taser and use a warning arc to attempt to gain control over the suspect without deploying the taser. This is most likey what the officer was doing.
You must not be too learned in Public Safety
Freeman
@@norestkev well they need to change that training cause most people's Fight or Flight Instincts kick in. I'm a personal fan of a hit sauce cannon,cause nobody can fight off being drowned in it. Tasers are always hit or miss, usually just pisses the suspect off more.
@@loswilson5331 I'm not sure how much experience you have had deploying a taser, however, I have had great success using a warning arc particularly with intoxicated people. The idea of being tased is far worse than the actual tasing. But since you're commenting on police procedures I'm sure you know that as a police officer and taser instructor.
"this guy is pissed, at this point" EXACTLY WHAT YOU DON'T WANT IN A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER. When we start expecting the same professionalism in Police as we do in EMTs and Firefighters, policing will improve.
Yup
Simple, the person with a gun should be the most reasonable, calm and humble of the bunch, this cop failed to be like that. Likely some authority issues.
Seems like the cop was fine controlling the aided until the EMT grabbed him
I totally agree with you man. This cop is so used to bossing everyone around but crapped his pants soon as someone told him to stop doing something.
Cop was totally out of line, especially grabbing the EMT by the throat. Being BOTH first responders, they need to have respect for each other.
They should press charges and Fire/EMS should support them.
He definitely had him by his shirt not throat. You’re reaching
Exactly cause if shoes was in the other foot and the emt grabbed the cops throat how would that go
@@damaris.1341 Still really shouldn't pin the guy to the car, by the shirt or throat. EMT guy was trying to explain why the cop shouldn't tase the guy and the cop literally responded by force LOL. Didn't know how to just use his words, it seems...
Nobody was grabbed by the throat, clearly has him grabbed on the left side of his shirt caller.
“The bro looking guy” lmao that’s on point
This is exactly what it's like working in healthcare these days... Too many Chiefs. The EMT was right
Hope the officer is put on leave. He slammed the EMT against a car by the throat and held him there by the throat. I would be filing whatever complaints I could if I was that EMT. As an EMT we care about our patient hence the "Do not tase him he has a head injury!". That's an EMT advocating for his patient. If the patient had a spinal injury and was being thrown around without spinal immobilization by the responders, the EMT would be saying the same thing. All this cop cared about was his ego and his authority over everyone and everything.
I think about situations like this every day. Ever since I've been a firefighter and EMT my family and friends have told me one day a Cop is going to be threatened by my morals and value on life and my desire to help my community. I keep telling them PD is on our side... and then they see videos like this on the news and it's hard for me to keep thinking I won't be that EMT getting choked up against a car by essentially a "bully in high school".
Should the EMT also get charged for grabbing the officer?
@@norestkev ??
@@lTempasl the EMT grabbed and pulled the officer, should he be charged? Fair is fair if the officer is getting suspended then the EMT should get arrested, right?
@@norestkev There is ZERO comparison with putting your hand on someone's shoulder to get their attention when advocating for the patient and someone pushing by the throat almost 15 ft against a car until they feel like their ego has been satisfied. The well being of the patient is the EMT's responsibility. The scene is PD's responsibility.
I didn't even want to answer you because you're clearly either biased or trolling if you think they can ever be compared.
I have been on intox calls and psych calls where PD are more gentle and understanding than my fellow EMS/Fire so like I said. I will always say PD is on our side and I've seen bad stuff from all responders. But the way this cop acted is inexcusable. When EMS/Fire isn't safe from possible scene safety AS WELL as violent ego cops, that's the end of first response as we know it.
Be careful around cops, some of them are psychopaths and know they’re protected by the court system
This cop is out of control. He should not work as a cop. I don"t wanna know how many times he already lost control in other situations... In my opinion that wasn"t even that crazy of situation.
The cop was controlling the situation until the EMT grabbed him and obstructed him.
@@norestkev Oh what a surprise you are spamming the same biased nonsense on other comments.
@@lTempasl Aww are you so shallow minded that you’re unable to comprehend a different perspective on the situation?
@@norestkev you only say that because you’re in the same gang. One day it might backfire on you
@@fruitsyfarm8044 gang gang bro
I remember when this happened i live near and worked in this city as an EMT for a different company cause at the time this city did not have a city EMS system in place it was transferred to private companies that were in the city which can make things chaotic as is when everyone has a hard time communicating with each other, i remember after this happened the EMS personnel around the city were pretty pissed and was a hot topic for a few weeks. A few days after this happened the police chief, the officer involved and that medic sat down privately and hashed things out from what everyone was told and that medic said he held no grudges.
And that cop wasn’t disciplined clearly. The difference is emt personnel don’t go around with guns and tasers that a temper can set off!
Cop felt like roughing some people up but EMS got in the way 🤣
I would take this guy to court so hard if he pulled me off of a PT like this.
That cop is WAY out of line. If I was that ems dude. That cop would have been catching some hands.
If a cop tased my patient with a head injury I'd be PISSED
As a firefighter, I answer to the EMTs before cops. Period.
This man just suffered a head injury . The EMT was just doing his job.
He was trying to insure that the patient, didn't come to any more harm, than he already had.
That cop is a menace, and should be fired.
I hope the EMT presses charges.
EMTs call in my opinion. Thanks for sharing 👍
Cop was on a power trip.
As we can see, after the emt grabbed the cops shoulder he pushed him off pretty easily and the emt immediately began talking to the cop in order to explain why he shouldn't taze the guy.
The guy was obviously in pain and if you couldn't tell, him yelling ow three times should have been the indicator. Also there are multiple fully grown men manhandling the guy. Even if he is aggressive he's definitely not fending off all the responders or getting away being this drunk.
If the EMT didn't grab his shoulder the cop wasn't about to listen to anything. Trying to talk directly to the cop out of the whole group of people going off and the group of responders manhandling the guy is not exactly something you can focus on effectively.
I wish we had the footage of the cop who had the power trip because I'm certain it went a little something like this. The cop didn't care WHAT the emt had to say, he was just mad that another man had the audacity to put his hand on his shoulder despite him having a taser and a gun. He was also appalled that he had the nerve to tell him how to do his job or rather what NOT to do.
If the emt was talking to him about someone else's well being why was it necessary to march him all the way to the cruiser. Because It's a power move and I'm sure we've all seen it at least once before.
Cop didn't like what someone else had to say or do So they bring them to the cruiser as a threat. No one else can tell them anything because they have a gun and the right to arrest people and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
If this is how he treats other first responders who are willing to talk imagine how he'll treat literally anyone else. Not saying the guy shouldn't be a cop but it wouldn't hurt him to use his brain just a little bit more.
And the most ironic thing of all, Even after all of that, the guy was going into EMS care anyway because they where putting him on the stretcher.
this cop forgot that there are other types of first responders who actually care about people
As always, you are extremely generous in your comments. As far as I am concerned, the officer should have taken care of the scene and allowed EMS and fire to take care of the patient. If they need the officer's help with their patient, I'm sure they will ask for it. Just saying...
In the video he literally said the EMT’s partner asked the cop to taze the patient. Listening is fundamental
@@damaris.1341 You have a point. Apparently, the officer had received contradictory instructions.
So, the appropriate response should have been to inform the second EMS and follow that person's instruction. Especially since the second EMS explained why.
The subsequent confrontation was completely the officer's fault.
As a side note: Imagine getting contradictory orders yelled at you by several people with guns!
this is the EMTs patient, cops gotta secure the scene and the fire crew fills in where the emt cant. Am i wrong?
If I was that EMT i would press charges against the cop for assault
I draw the line on the officer pulling the medic away from the patient and then using an arm bar technique to pin him against the police car. Totally unnecessary. At bare minimum the officer committed battery against the medic. The other medic requesting the patient be tased? That's the one of the craziest things I've heard! Unfortunately EMS deals with drunks and/or combative patients all the time. There are effective ways in dealing with them and EMS professionals all over do so without needing to taser their patients. A little advice to the EMS crew: Bring the gurney, or at least the backboard, to the patient. Had they done so they could have rapidly restrained him before he regained consciousness. They also could have strapped him to the board much easier on the ground, rather than mob walking him to the gurney. There is no reason 7 or 8 first responders can't handle a combative patient. I've been on calls with patients under the influence of PCP who fought way harder and were still taken down by 4 first responders safely.
Ultimately, what I saw was a lot of egos not working with or respecting each other. Communication is key. Teamwork is required. Egos need to be checked.
Yup.. Id’a went to jail also. No cop gonna put his hands on me while I’m trying to render patient care. 🤷🏼♂️
This is a long shot, but because both EMS and hospitals all are coordinated by international standards, the EMT could invoke the Geneva Protocols, in that "first duty is protection of the patient." Military medics, who are noncombatants, are allowed to pick up and operate weapons if patients are in danger, and may not be penalized or lose noncombat protections.
Number one: that cop was completely out of line and should be losing hours and chained to a desk for a quite some time... but that’s just my opinion. Number two: all of this could have been avoided had they just collared the Dude and got him into the back of the ambulance and shut and locked the doors, let police do their thing to crest a perimeter around the ambulance.
Whenever alcohol is involved it's always better for law enforcement to clear the scene of all unnecessary people. If this was done earlier in this situation the tension level of the scene would have been reduced greatly.
As for the emt and officer. If the officer had simply said to the EMT, in a calm voice, "your partner asked me to do that", the altercation may have been averted.
Can't force people off of a public side walk
@@norestkev Civil disturbance and disorderly conduct laws, as well as patient protection laws, may be invoked. The minimum safety zone around any incident is typically 50 feet. An Officer who knows the law and uses it conscientiously and tactfully for everyone's safety, is rarely caught in out of control situations.
@@mightymystery9204 you can charge someone with discon for standing on a public sidewalk, check chase law bub
Come on dude. You know who was wrong- and it wasn’t the EMT
When we had sufficient personnel on scene I would always designate one to do nothing more than watch the situational awareness of the crews actually providing patient care. They were not a scribe or perform any other function than to watch the crews' back. It is too easy for the tunnel vision of providing care to create a situational blindness to your surroundings.
Such calls are pretty crazy.
Simply, I agree. Delegate task.
You have just described one of the critical points of the Incident Command system and, from the police side, the MOAB system: each has a primary [Incident Commander or Lead Officer] and a Safety Officer, as essential elements. This means one person runs the situation, and another prevents carelessness.
Its a very common reaction in combat sports when an opponent is concussed mid fight, the ref steps in to stop the fight and save the opponent from further trauma. You see the ref try to reposition the body into a more comfortable manner in case the competitor has fallen and twisted a joint badly, also of a sudden the concussed competitor wakes ups and proceeds to attack the ref either grabbing their legs if in MMA or clinching the tightly and start pushing the reg towards the ropes in boxing. its kind of a catch 22 situation...the guy on the ground could have been jumped and hurt and he wakes up initial instinct is based on the last memory and that memory is their self being attacked.
That cop had absolutely no right to put his hands on that EMT. As a matter of fact that EMT should’ve sued. Clearly an ego driven lack of self control officer
This guy analysis is just crazy! The emt has genuine care for the safety of the patient it shouldn't matter why he's acting incoherent the cop didn't understand mental health and obviously didn't care for the safety of the hurt guy who could have suffered serious issues such a seizure. The cop should be investigated and reprimanded. This is sad to see!
EMS calls...EMS in charge.
Motor Vehicle Accident...law enforcement is in charge of the roadway, EMS in charge of patient care, and fire in charge of the physical rescue, if any.
It is very easy to forget our roles and responsibilities on scene as first responders, especially when a scene starts to become chaotic....
Nope absolutely not. The other EMT shouldn't have requested it in the first place. Patients biting, kicking and punching are nothing new to medical personnel and we don't use tasers to subdue a patient when we have 5+ guys on them.
But even then, I would accept the cop following EMT instructions, but his reaction to the other EMT was COMPLETELY out of line. He had his hands on an EMTs throat for trying to protect his patient!
The EMT doesnt dictate the level of force the offcier uses to control a vioplent person, try again. The EMT also should NEVER have touched the officer, he's lucky he didnt end up in cuffs
@@norestkev Um, EMS dictates the use of force on someone that's their patient, and is altered after a head injury. The patient is restrained and is not an immediate threat, he may be combative but he is not directly harming or has potential of giving mass bodily harm to anyone in this state, the cop is not allowed to tase them in this circumstance, TrY aGaIn.
I don't do anything with EMS, so my opinion is pretty worthless, but here's how I tend to view things:
Life
Safety
Security
If someones life is in danger, life takes priority. EMT.
If something is unsafe or dangerous, but no one is actively dying, safety takes priority. Firefighter.
Assuming those two things aren't in play, security takes priority. Police.
It is, of course, more complicated then that, because each of those roles do have certain amounts of overlap with the others. Even if you're putting out a house fire, you might need a cop to keep people back from the scene. You might be treating a serious injury, but the guy has a gun. It's hard to say. I think it's got to be a group consensus to determine who is in control.
I think that in this specific scenario, it looks like what _might_ have happened was: the cop was getting amped up and extremely angry at the public for their drunken behavior - totally understandable. While he was still angry about that, his partner got hurt and the cop wanted to direct that anger at the attacker. EMT stepped in and tried to stop the cop from making hurting his patient. At this point, I think the cop was kind of in "friend or foe mode" and was extremely angry to boot, so he lashed out at EMT. I don't call that "right" or "wrong", because I wasn't there. I have never been in that type of situation. Who knows how I would have acted.
I do think that the cop should probably get some sort of training to help him manage his emotions in high stress situations like that, but I don't think it's fair to say "He made the wrong call", since I very easily could have done the same thing under those conditions.
I hope he ended up learning from this, and tried to make things right with the EMT later on. We don't know what happened afterwards, but I want to believe he did the right thing and apologized.
Everyone just needs to stay in their lane. Cops handle scene security, EMS handle medical. When violence erupts, cops handle. It’s that simple.
The cop thought that was violence.
Maybe he would have been better involved. But the cop had clear orders.
He pulled a taser on a man who's already restrained, that's not security, that's overstepping your responsibility.
One of the issues at emergency scenes where PD is present is their training. They are taught they must get control of a scene regardless of the type of incident, they do not play well with other disciplines. Some of this is also due to the fact that many times they are alone and their only defense when they are outnumbered is the aggressive posturing, some however cannot control that well or direct it correctly. They see any commentary etc as a “challenge” rather than informative or informational. Best defense is trying to be familiar with PD officers so they are more willing to be collaborative.
Training is indeed key. EMS and fire services must all be accredited to national standards. This is not true, for police. CALEA accredits, and in accredited departments, conflicts with other agencies rarely happen. I might note that, in every major incident of police excess, in the last few years, none was by an accredited department, as far as I could determine. Ironically, the largest departments, which most could use this training, such as LAPD, NYPD, and CPD, are not accredited.
I’ve been in situations relative to this.
1st: don’t ever demand a LEO to tase anyone. If anyone of the public heard you say that, well, we know how the world is right now. I’ve asked LEO in a “stern” voice to “deal with them”. That leaves it open for the LEO uses their own judgement for the situation and doesn’t sound like I’m telling them exactly what to do, because let’s face it, I’m just a firefighter.
2nd: If the LEO wants to go all judge Dredd on them, right or wrong for the PT, let them do their thing. Treat the after effects appropriately and DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT everything you saw, did and why you did it!
3rd: In my area we have a good relationship with our LEO, they’ll stand back and guard the scene until we ask them to intervene or see a reason to. They know that if we’re there, the scene is ours as far as PT care and all that includes (per CT state law).
Bottom line, don’t be a bag of summer’s eve to each other. The next scene will just be awkward! Trust me, I’ve been there too!
I've been at scenes like that. Too many people trying to be in charge. Too many trying to be heard. It turns into a slippery slope when you taze a subject with a head injury. If that exacerbates the injuries , that could lead to a lawsuit and even criminal charges. It's an ugly situation, but don't put yourself into a position of liability when trying to do the right thing.
Hey Mike love your content, quick question. I already know your're thoughs on fire science degrees, what do you think about fire science certificate?
The EMS had a valid medical reason for not wanting the police to transport someone with a potential head/spine injury so carelessly. You can’t do that shit or he may be paralyzed and your department is sued. The medic was trying to help, and got zapped for it.
If it is a medical call then the EMT should be calling the shots as the FD is there for extra hands if needed....PD should only be worried about the safety of the area..... That cop was way out of line... The medics asked the cops to keep the folks back so the PD should have kept there eyes on the group... The medic should have been calling the shots on how to treat the guy..
It is a tough call in some situations as you said. There are definitely some where one entity is trained for different different types of situations and some training being something experienced in previous situations. One quick example... MVC, chief has an engine blocking an extra lane on the highway as crash protection from moving traffic. Blocking his guys from being hit. The trooper told the chief to move the truck so they could open a second lane. Chief said no and explained why. The trooper told him again to move the truck. Again the chief said no. Trooper then said move it or you will be arrested. Chief again said no and explained why, it was for the safety of the men working. Trooper grabbed the chief, threw him against the truck, cuffed him and put him in the troop car, and had someone else move the truck. This cause a huge issue between the 2 entities about who is in charge on scenes like that. My personal opinion is in tje MVC situation the fire chief had authority over the trooper and was keeping the truck there for the safety of his crew working.
Those situations are tough.
It would be wise for Fire to take the police officer and place him under citizen arrest because had been interfering operations/ or at least warn him.
Tough call but away to stop the cop from doing something stupid.
Very difficult to make such a call and risky against a police officer.
On the other Hand the cop wouldn't arrest them all after each other in the first case because he doesn't have as many handcuffs.
If you’re referring to the incident in CA, there’s a few things you have wrong. 1. The engine was parked on the opposite side of the scene (ex. Crash was on W/B side and the engine was parked blocking the E/B #1 lane for faster response) therefore, traffic was being affected where it didn’t need to be and was protecting no one on the scene, and only causing further danger of additional crashes on the other side. 2. In CA, freeway incidents are under the command of the CHP. That’s all there is to it. So you’re opinion is wrong. Does that mean whatever they say goes no matter what? Absolutely not. Officers should consider everyone’s input and make the best decisions with everyone’s job and objectives in mind. 3. I have only heard this as a rumor but I heard that particular fire fighter and officer had personal beef prior to this incident occurring, and egos definitely got involved.
@@Brad_1036 I'm not. My example was of a situation in NJ in tje town next to where I'm a volly. The end result was a mutual agreement between both entities that depending on the severity of the incident fd would be in charge of the scene depending on if there was a reasonable amount of space available for the crew to work on the mvc.
@@fdMT_EnGy gotcha. Sounded extremely similar. It’s sad there’s multiple stories like this!!
@@Brad_1036 It is. We're all on the same team, I feel like vollies get the short end of that stick sometimes. But it was good that we were all able to come to an agreement. After thay chief was handcuffed and put in the car, it kind of made things a little awkward for a while. Some other departments chiefs threatened not to respond to any incidents on the interstate for a while, which to me wasn't something that should happen, there's a job to be done and the people shouldn't suffer the consequences of bad blood between agencies. Luckily there were other fire officers on the scene that day and the crew knew what they were doing so other than tempers flying, the job was still able to get done safely.
When it comes to someones health the EMTs should be in charge of it. All the police have to do is hold the crowd back. It doesn't matter what the guy did it's a health priority that takes place of an officers egos.
Exactly.
If he can do that to an EMT what can he do to you or I?
Whoever thinks they're in charge holds the responsibility of patient care, which typically is a fire/EMS responsibility but hey if the cop wants that liability, have at it. Hasn't been going so well with police and the health and well being of their subjects as of lately. A smart cop would've let fire and EMS do their job until they couldn't and they definitely would have listened to the medics professional medical advice and adapt new tactics at the moment. Neither one acted professional when the touching started. Seen a policeman get fired for something very similar when a guy became combative due to a brain aneurysm mistaken for violence.
Best thing to do as an emt just calm down and tell him with thought grabbing and yelling. Calm the situation.
The officer was dead wrong he's injured. That medic was right
Hey Mike I have a video idea: make a video on how to answer the fire station phone when people call to report an emergency. What questions to ask, what to do afterwards, etc.
Pretty good example for a cop not to walk an entire back 30 feet aggressively with a taser in his hands manhandling him, pretty fuckin scary for someone who comes to preserve lives
That cop was straight up out of line, when a medical person tells you not to tase someone, it's for a reason. I hope that cop get suspended without pay and has to take anger mgmt classes, he needs them with his dusty ass
we watched this in my EMT class
"He is probably drunk and just got in a bar fight." "Ah, so he is an off duty firefighter for the town"
I generally think its up to the first arrivals to be command. In a fire, command is 1st engine on scene. Man handling an emt is a little bit concerning to me, it puts strains on the departments relationships In my neck of the woods, we ff had cops we liked and others that we didnt because they would pick fights with us. I was directing traffic on a highway at a car crash and a cop got up in my grill for no good reason, he was just a power hungry jerk. I told him to get in his cruiser and sit there until i let him out again. He said im not a dog, i said i beg to differ. My co came over and got him to leave. We were in command at that scene, first engine there. ‘green light’ on the rooftop. In this area fire and ems have the say in car accidents, fires, major medical incidents
Cop assaulted the emt
Your right.
That police officer needs fired immediately and not let back on any police force!! I am on an ambulance crew, and if a police did that to my emt (I'm just a driver) I would absolutely not put up with it! It's completely uncalled for!
You're kidding me in this day and age you're gonna stand up for that police officer and the way he was out of control with an EMT is ridiculous there was no reason for him to ever pull his taser with the people around that person and the EMT it every right to tell them not to tease as you can clearly see they were trying to put a neck brace on him if you don't have the courage to speak up for these EMTs this stuff is going to continue to happen and nothing will ever change this EMT did exactly what he should've done and everybody around him should've supported him.
EMS was in charge, it's not up for debate. The cop will need that guy one day and he'll be there!
The answer to this question is extremely simple, and it relates to mission, as well as situation. Since this was an EMS call, within the context of a disturbance, the mission of EMS was to care for the patient, and the mission of the police was to protect them so they could do their job. A loose hierarchy is, life, personnel safety, and property. But the more critical incident, in microcosm, falls to the group with nearest purview, particularly in the case of a patient under medical care.
The original situation, where policemen were watching the medical and fire work on the patient, was perilous and reckless on the part of the police. When the firefighter had to ask them to keep the crowd back, that was revealing. The police should have focused on that in the first place. Indeed, with those beefy firefighters to help with the patient, no police officer needed th be involved with the patient at all. [Flip that around: if police were facing a man with a knife, would they accept a fireman with a haligan closing in on their suspect?]
That directive was no doubt because scene safety demands it, but also to redirect the police from following instinct, to want to subdue the person, the patient, who had already been in a fight.
When a policeman got in with the patient control, anyway, he reacted as would be correct _if they were only police, in first contact with a suspect._ But in this case, he was _interfering with a patient under treatment,_ and as such, he was wrong. As such, he was improper in asking for his partner to taser the patient, and the EMT, knowing indications and side effects, was absolutely correct in preventing a disruption to patient care. The policeman rightly reacted to his friend's call, but the friend was wrong to make that call, in that situation. No medical person asked for a taser! [Take this example: a shop owner runs out of a store, bloody, holding a baseball bat, and points at a running man, telling an arriving policeman to shoot him. The policeman knows not to shoot.]
I have done street patrol. I have also done EMS. And I know that, in certain cases, a taser can induce a seizure, or, in rare cases, can disrupt cardiac timing, depending on underlying issues.
I know that a certain Medical Center addressed these issues under a particularly interesting set of circumstances. This hospital had on its night emergency staff, a doctor who was consultant for taser development, and another whe was on the state EMS board, responsible for field protocols. They issued this instruction to policemen hired for Emergency Department security: "In cases involving patients, the Officer may intervene only on the request of staff, or if urgency dictates, but may only use those measures specifically permitted by patient protocols, or by the attending physician, unless absolute risk to life or limb requires, in which case, the officer shall use the minimum force, avoiding those devices which may cause _avoidable_ severe injury."
The translation is, strike, spray, or taser, in that order, but not if the attending says it could be fatal to the patient. And this makes sense, since an evaluated patient is a known quantity. Medical personnel have a good idea of whether a patient has breathing or cardiac or seizure risk complications, and in those cases, a taser incursion can potentially start a cascade of failures. There were more than enough medically trained firefighter MR and EMT responders to control the patient.
EMT was right, and the second officer was right, to back his friend, but to defer to the EMT. The first officer was wrong, to have squeezed into the patient situation in the first place.
[Here's a footnote for you. The consultant mentioned before, actually showed me an experimental taser with a tiny screen. At the movement of a switch, it displayed cardiac feedback through the taser leads, instantly advising medical help was needed and precluding further taser hits. The very fact that it is being developed says that that big western department cares about unnecessary harm. I cannot wait until that gets fielded.]
Depends on the type of incident. Then Unified your resources with each agency tending to their professions. (SOG’s & SOP’s)
Drunk or not I’d start from the most severe to the least. Head injury until he gets a scan at the ED. I’d rather ‘over triage than under triage’. As for the cop, he sucks. His lack of patience shows when he decided to yell at a bunch of drunk people expecting it to work. He covers that area full of bars, so what is he expecting?? Complete lack of professionalism, also shows lack of confidence and leadership. IMO tasing wasn’t the right call for many reasons but the medic shouldn’t have left his patient to have an altercation with the cop like that. However I do admire his passion to be a patient advocate. At the end of the day it could have been way worse, we gotta look out for each other guys and gals! Send that popo to admin where he belongs and have him rough up the copy machine instead of medical professionals.
Do ask you ask,,it's LITERALLY the cops job to clear the scene
To answer your first question: EMS gets all right of way, followed very closely by Fire (unless there is a fire, then its other way around), and Police should only contain the situation and stay out of everyone's way.
The police officer who pushed the EMT against the car was absolutely wrong. His actions could have risked the injured person's life. As a former LEO, I would always protect the scene, the EMTs, Firefighters, and do what's necessary to protect an injured person regardless of the situation. If the injured person was being violent, I would restrain them as much as possible without aggravating the situation further and protecting them as much as possible. I had to do this several times with success, while working with the EMTs to both calm the situation and protect the injured person. This police officer should have been disciplined for his actions.
Looking who to blame isn't the right question. What we have to say is " What can we do better next time as a team?" When we do the blame game it gets ugly between departments.
Great videos I love watching them.
Well, the Cop was not playing as a team. He was trying to be the sports commissioner.
The updated guidelines says crew safety is first, so tasing the guy or controlling it, falls on the police. Now the argument after, that's just egos. Patient care doesn't override crew safety, now this is an exam question.
The police need to let EMT do their job properly instead of messing around with the EMTS patient as EMTS are medical professionals
The cop should have said oh yeah, good point, my B. Like what was the point of holding the Paramedic against the car by his neck? That cop is so used to tell people what to do he crapped his pants soon as someone told him to get back and stop being stupid.
EMT was in the right. It was his patient and he was in charge. Officers, Fire and EMT need to work together as a team. Clear open communication.
I’m assuming you don’t have too much knowledge about First Response
@@simeoncooke2237 this is a dumb comment, incident management is important, and every incident has to have unity of command and clear communication.
I understand the Communication part of what you said, as to I have Worked Scenes with multiple agencies before, but every thing isn’t textbook style, sometimes situations get out of hand. And to my understanding it sounds like one of the Emts was getting physically kicked etc. and maybe actually asked for the officer to taze him, and then this other EMT unaware of the request Violently grabbed the Officer (which is a STRONG NEVER to do ) it maybe was just a poor lack of communication hopefully though
@@simeoncooke2237 common sense. Let the EMT do there job. Save a life.
@Linda Neely There was no medical aid that I could see going on at that point…I mean you kinda can’t Medically work on a subject who’s like this until after he’s under control.
Simply Put, All parties were there to serve the public and ego's had no place on the scene. There was only one out of control ego on the professional side.
From strictly fire standpoint I've never had any issues with local or county LEO, the few times anything happened was with state officers.
If the partner asked the cop to tase the patient, then in my opinion the partner is wrong along with the police officer. I'm not in EMS but I can't imagine tasing a patient with a possible head injury is within protocol...
I believe one person on an ambulance crew should be in charge, so either the partner was in charge and made this decision without communicating a major decision (using a weapon against a patient) clearly to his colleague, or the guy in white was in charge and his partner made a major decision behind his partners back
Its not up to the EMT what level of foprce the offcier uses, its up to the officer.
@@norestkev In my opinion you are completely wrong. Force is something police officers use to enforce the law, and they should (if trained well) only use force when they don't have another option. The patient is possibly not voluntarily fighting back because of his brain injury, so he is not violating the law, and can be restrained by manual force, and the medics are in charge
@@LucasL512 He doesn't have to break the law to be a danger to the FD and EMS. He was actively fighting the FD PD and EMS, if thats from intoxication or from a TBI, the end result is going to be someone getting hurt, probably a firefighter or EMT, which no one wants to see happen. There is no EMS protocol that says EMS is incharge of restraining a violent person, that is police officers responsibility. The police officer was doing his job when the EMT grabbed him. What happened after that I don't agree with however the officer and EMT share equal amounts of responsibility for the confrontation.
If it is a EMS call, EMS has control first and foremost. If it is a Fire Call, it is a Fire Controlled Scene. At the same time, this situation could've been handled better, at the same time, as you said, they both were in the right. This EMT of course was following his protocols, the Cop however of course was probably a bit irritated because of the situation. Tensions were running high in this instance, it was chaotic, things probably got lost in translation.
Okay so since it was a “Ems Situation” why couldn’t EMS handle it on their own?
@@simeoncooke2237 They could have.
Then Why DID EMS REQUEST LAW ENFORCEMENT TO HELP WITH THE SITUATION IF THEY COULDVE HANDLED IT ON THEIR OWN?!!!
IMO Once the patient is under the care of medical personnel they are in charge of the patient. If the patient presents a danger then the medical personnel back off and ask the police to take charge until it’s safe for the medical personnel to resume treatment.
Up to you explaining that the other Emt asked for the officer to tase him I was of the opinion the officer was wrong.
Now I think the Emt team is more at fault for not communicating with each other. The officer overreact for which he should apologize for.
I feel the non-tasing Emt was probably correct in that this patient had a head injury and tasing could make it worse especially if the patient hit his head again because of being teased. I’d see a lawsuit coming out of that.
Either way they need to kiss and make up 😊
Listen again. A policeman, who wormed into the patient envelope, asked for the taser. You were right, at first. No EMT ever asked for a taser.
EMT!!! The Cop Is not a Medic. He just over stepped and bullied that EMT.
What a mess! They’ve have to be firefighter cops EMT and psychologist. Never knew.
Police is in charge but it sucks when they're egotistical and become violent aggressors
Depends on the scenario
Cop had no right to lay hands on the EMT.
Ems is right, because if the cop would of tased him then it wouldn't be good for the cop maybe that guy could of suffer to death cops have to be careful i know they want to do their job but please do it right. 2 the cop is not wrong he just need to be aware of what he's doing and do his own job...
Yup the laser was very unnecessary. Poor training by the police officers.
Strongly disagee the cop was completely in the wrong while in the way of the EMT from doing his job.
This situation was unfortunate however the cop should have been reprimanded by his supervisor.
If it’s a criminal, police
If it’s an accident, EMT or firemen
The highest trained ems personnel is in charge
I was totally concussed by my partner and had a brain 🩸 bleed, I was very hard to settle by neighbours as my injury was so serious . I lost my eyesight and my eye and mouth were bleeding so badly. I support the EMT in these situations .
Officer entirely out of line and power tripping. Needs to be fired.
Ems are in charge if it is medical emergency
Cop needs to get fired. No benefits. Thrash needs to go.
As Charlie Press said, you are being too generous. First off, my son's a cop so I'm always going to look out for them and yes work together. As a chief in my jurisdiction, its a medical/trauma case and we, by protocol are in charge of care. Personally, I'm going the chemical restraints route and a safe method of approved restraint techniques. I expect the EMS supervisor to TAKE CHARGE of the situation and direct the crews. I'm having a discussion with that cop's chief to include use of force report that I expect will be within their escalation of force policy. Secondly, an IO investigation on the actions of the officer and interference of patient care. If nothing comes of it, that's fine, as long as PD reviews the incident and does any identified remediation. The end goal here is the safety of the patient and a smooth transfer of care to the ER for a Neurotrauma evaluation. Hopefully, the alcohol metabolizes and the headache goes away without any serious trauma findings.
The secodn the patient became violent that is PDs scene.
That cop was pretty amped up
As with all incidents the personnel on the scene can easily get ramped up emotionally. My first concern with all of this is why would someone is providing medical care want the patient tased unless the patient was loose and acted wild? Several people had a hold of him so restrain him that way and let the police control the crowd. The injured person yes was drunk I am sure plus he had a head injury in addition the last thing that was in his mind before being knocked out was defending him self and evidently a fight he was involved in. So as he comes to is defense making him aggressive. I remember one of the most dangerous situations I ever was involved with was getting on a scene of a motor vehicle accident where an on duty police officer was involved and he was knocked out as a result of the accident. We had another officer on the scene assist in removing the injured officers service weapon from him before administering extended aide. the reason was the fear that as he came around he would sense unknown people around him and his sense of preservation would kick in and he would reach for his service weapon. In this situation you have a lot of people surrounding the scene and most of them are under the influence of alcohol. Everyone knows everybody and it is easy to misinterpret anything that is happening. The police should have pushed back more and earlier. The EMS and Fire should have controlled and defined scene better as well. Depending on where you are every city, municipality, Town, county, and or state will be a little different. Some areas the police fire and ems are all under the same control others they are separated with not so clean lines of separation of who does what where others it is perfect and others everybody wants to do the other persons job. Work it out by meetings and clear lines of communications well in advance.
I‘d find that police after that, and tell him what force without Uniform means!
Homeboy is getting charges from me if I was on that scene. Police are not the boss on a medic call. They're there for safety. The fact that he pushed the medic against the car and (it looked like) put his arm against his throat and then mouthed off at him... Nah, boy is picking up assault and battery on a public servant. Ego's don't have a place on a chaotic scene. It looked to me like he was just commited to tasing and decided to go with it regardless of the situation. If you look he pulls it out, fights with the crowd for a few seconds then turns around and locates Pt before actually tasing. Didn't reassess necessity. Seems like he just really wanted to tase 🤷♂️. Good on the medic for jumping right back into Pt care! Makes me sad to know he probably bitterd the relationship between PD and EMS. I've had more great cops on scene then bad one's, promise I won't forget guys!
Please sir they're secure and create a safe zone for the injured the EMT are there to help the injured and save lives the fire department are there again to help you know the situation whether it be EMT or any other situation with emergency danger
Could easily be both a brain bleed and intox. Alcohol can mess up your clotting, so falling and hitting your head while drunk can speed up the effects of a bleed. A second fall where he hits his head after being tazed could easily kill him in the event of a bleed. The guy obviously needed physical restraints for crew safety, and there were enough people there to do it. Grabbing a cop by the shoulder and yelling not to taze the guy is probably not the ideal way to do it, but it was loud, crowded and the cop was imminently going to deploy the taser, potentially killing the patient. The cop who's bodycam we saw showed him being able to push some of the crowd back more passively, so I'm not sure why this particular officer got more aggressive. Maybe he saw something I didn't because I'm not an LEO. But he was definitely wound up, and it showed when he snapped on the EMT. I'd get it if he did a reflexive push or yelled something back, but I can't think of a good reason to pin the EMT on the car and go in on him for that long. Overall, I think Fire did fine, EMS needs a bit of work but mostly good, and LE needs a chill pill
It was the 21st century, humanity was still waging a war of all against all as before.
To your point I think they both played a part. yes the guy was intoxicated, but he also split his head. To the EMT’s point, there is no way right to on scene to know whether or not he did have a head injury. That is done in a trauma center where the pt needs to be. There were more than enough people on scene to restrain this pt. The one cop is just standing back and saying tase him instead of trying to help restrain him. Another issue is, that pt should have been in a collar, on the stretcher and in the ambulance before he woke up,where they would be able to lock the doors and have better control of the scene. I’m an EMT and that’s not a scene where u stay and play. It’s just no safe. Both EMS and police on scene should have been able to realize that we need to grab and go.
Unity of command...the emt handle the patience while the cops handle the crowd. This doesn't seem like such a hard concept to understand.