Can the K40 Laser Engrave Metal?
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- Is the Chinese K40 Laser engraving machine and its 40 watt CO2 Laser tube powerfull enough to penetrate metal surfaces?
I will put it to the test and try to engrave on 5 differend sorts or metal: Brass, Copper, Aluminium, Aluminium foil and Carbon steel.
Then i tried if i can etch the metal surfaces by first engrave a design onto the metals that are masked off with masking tape then using simple electrolysis to engrave it permanently.
Also i listed up differend methods how you actually can get an engravement or permanent print onto a metal surface using this laser.
Can the K40 Laser Engrave Metal REVISITED:
• Can the K40 Laser Engr...
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Etching aluminum works better if you don't use tape and also if you don't use the cotton swab technique. I use spray paint. Raster etch your pattern into the spray paint and then use saltwater bath electrolysis. 12vdc at 3amps only took about 5 minutes of just sitting in the salt water to get a .5mm etch. Afterward, paint thinner or acetone will clean off the spray paint. The etched pattern is razor sharp and looks professional.
This sounds pretty interesting, I will definitely try this out. Thanks for that!
Great idea! I don't have a big fancy laser like this+(just a tiny 1watt) that'd work fine for mine although only be able to do 1.5"x1.5" designs though
Great explanation of what is possible (or not) with a 40W CO laser. Exactly the kind of info I was looking for. Much appreciated.
Subscribed. I enjoyed the tests! I'm considering buying a K40 and this was very helpful.
Thanks for showing your fails. Very informative and not boring at all.
Thanks so much for your video, I’m going to try to keep this one in my lineup. The salt vinegar thing with the battery I just have to try!
Thanks so much again.
This was very helpful for my business. Thank you.
I’ve done a lot of etching on stainless this way, i used vinyl, same material as your car stickers. And also using a bath of salt saturated water instead of a q-tip, it gives me consistent etching all over the plate.
Great info. Thanks for the post!!!
use paint as your masking that you can laser etch your design into for the electrolysis.. creates insanely crisp masking
Made a followup video using spraypaint. Indeed it works perfectly fine👍🏼
Thank you for the interesting video! :) Very helpful!
This has sparked a few ideas for me, so thanks. I am also considering a K40 cheers.
wow i haven't subscribed to anyone in a while.....super useful videos as iv'e just ordered my k40. would like to see the home brew metal spray video. peace!
I'm surprised not even the k40 c02 could engrave metal directly. Nice video
Is there a reason you chose raster to cut out the edges of the text? It seems that you would have cleaner tape lines if you did a vector cut.
My man. Best masking to use is a THICK vinyl, sold where ever Circuit crafting machines are sold. It cuts ok on the laser and holds up to the acid etching.
Good video and very informative
Just use regular spray paint for masking - and then burn it of completely (not just the outlines) - might need a few passes...
Try Plastikote paint on the metal, then laser it, then etch it. The laser should burn off the paint and then the etch should only take where the paint 'isn't'. I watched a youtube video regarding making PCB's and this was a technique that worked quite well with accuracy. Then use acetone to remove the excess paint.
Thanks, i made an update video about that a while ago:
czcams.com/video/aT65ODsnLKA/video.html
@@MancaveEffects My bad. I haven't got that far yet :)
Great video! Thanks for showing the failures as well as the successes. That makes all the difference. Curious what you would do if you were trying to engrave QS codes into steel. Tape, laser, electrolysis--similar process you showed here? Or some other process? Thanks again
Thank you, i just recently posted a follow-up video with some more experiments and methods:
czcams.com/video/aT65ODsnLKA/video.html
I've used a 75 watt yag rod lazer and it's still nearly impossible to mark on copper or brass and won't even touch gold, silver or platinum
One thing that you may want to try if you have not already is using spray paint as your mask. People use if for etching pcbs and have good results.
Made a follow-up video where i did that experiment.
Anodising is the ideal candidate for this type of project, you can obtain kits or solutions to do this like electroplating/electrolysis its a cheap and cleaner outcome for using with C02 laser....also you can buy pre anodised coated blanks in all shapes,sizes & colours for your projects 😊
Thanks, i may get into this! ;)
Have you tried the laser on top of the electrolysis?Perhaps the laser will etch the darkened areas now.
Hmm interessante Ergebnisse!
Ich hab da eine Frage..
Woher hast du denn diesen Kopf mit dem Air-Assist?
Ich suche schon länger einen, der zum K40 passt 🤔
+crckdns Hallo und danke. Der Kopf kommt von Lightobject in den USA. Der Shop ist sehr zu empfehelen und führt so zimlich jedes Zubehör das es für den K40 gibt.
Link: www.lightobject.com/mobile/K40-Upgrade-Parts-C68.aspx
Allerdings ist das Porto und die Einfuhrsteuer relativ hoch, habe lange überlegt ob ich da bestellen soll.. Habe im Endeffekt eine ganze Reihe von Teilen bestellt um den hohen Versandkosten gerecht zu werden.
Mancave Effects oh ok danke! Also bleibt nichts anderes übrig als auf den Versand zu warten 😿
I think you were on to it..... I think the Nail Polish and set the font to fill would make a good seal for the electrolysis.... Very good idea!
Tried some more solutions in my „revisited“ video i had uploaded a while ago.
Try lasering black anodized Aluminium
I wonder if you used the blue ink coating that is used when milling and set the laser to raster it off. Then try the electrode method.
Something that can be tried i guess. But i think this coating is that thin that it conducts trough
Great video
Ich habe mir auch einen K40 zugelegt und ich benutze ihn im meine Platinen damit herzustellen. Ich benutze ihn für die Leiterbahnen genau so wie du für das Metall. Ich benutze nur meisten ganz normale schwarze Sprühfarbe aus dem Baumarkt. Die lässt sich später meist mit Aceton abwaschen. Noch eine Empfehlung von mir, dreh deinen Laser höchstens zu 80% auf, weil das Netzteil nicht für die 400W die die Röhre zieht ausgelegt ist. Und die 40W die angegeben sind ist der Output der Röhre bzw. die Laserstärke.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Christopher
Danke für den Tip, Sprühfarbe muss ich probieren aber dann halt als Negativ das eben nur die Schrift übrig bleibt und dann die übrigbleibenden "fehler"-Linien mit Aceton wegmachen.
Das mit dem Netzteil ist wohl war, ich gehe meist bis 50% allein schon aus dem Grund das danach nicht vielmehr Leistung kommt, aber gut zu wissen, vieleicht ein nächstes Upgrade! ;)
Try applying a thin layer of thermal conductive paste (it is used in computers between the processor and the radiator) to plain steel. Power 35%, speed 1 mm / s, cutting mode. This is the only thing this laser can do with metals. Good luck!
Thanks, i will try that!
Hello! Great video!
I'm looking for a laser engraving machine to engrave anodized aluminum pet tags not bigger than 5cm x 5cm. Would you recommend any model?
Victor C. Depending on what material these dog tags are made of you could rather use a diode or a co2 laser engraver.
@@MancaveEffects anodized aluminium works very well on a K40 modell ;) i did this with my 40W CO2
Question. I understand Co2 laser wont engrave metal but why can a diode laser at a lower power engrave metal? is it due to wave length?
Flying Karapet, it has to do with the wavelength, here is what i found on a forum:
materials have different transmission values for different wavelegnths - while transparent mterials are transparent for VIS (visible = roughly 400nm to 800nm) and NIR (Near Infra Red = 800 to 1200nm) diodes too, all organic/plastic materials are "perfect black" for CO2-lasers (10600nm) or deep UV lasers (below 300nm).
So for clear acrylic and wood of some millimeters thicknes you'll better use a CO2-laser.
Metal is different - it's highly reflective for CO2-lasers, so you'll need powers of some hundred Watts to get into or through.
But it will absorb in the NIR - so most metal marking/cutting lasers are NdYAG- or fiber-lasers with wavelength of 1064 to 1070nm.
For the VIS diodes it's a matter of power - the 445nm-diodes with 6Watts of power can be used to mark steel ... but for real engraving or cutting you'll need much more power ...
Voll cool danke!
Did you make a follow up video on the homebrew marking spray?
Yes, i revisited the subject in a recent video trying out several sprays
czcams.com/video/aT65ODsnLKA/video.html
@@MancaveEffects i was looking for something more like laserbond or ceramark but still a great video anyway. thanks and keep up the great work.
Many of the lasers you referred to as yag lasers are not, they are simply diode lasers. Yags are not at all "cheap" be it arc lamp or diode pumped. I believe you are confusing diode lasers with diode pumped yag lasers.
I saw nothing wrong with your video. I consider it excellent. JB-
Are there anything to change after a few uses ? Like the co2 cartridges and what not ? Thanks for replying
The lasertube usually lasts for arround 5000 hours. Cooling eater should be replaced from time to time thats it.
@@MancaveEffects thank you ! It quite put me back when i saw the $100 tube of co2, but thats okay. Keep up the great work !
Can the K40 Laser Engrave Metal? Short answer: No.
What is the best type of laser? What one would you recommend for copper?
ur wrongfull! sad low education u got...
That's really surprising. Given that I have an L-Cheapo Mk4 and I have been able to (using the powerful thermal medium known as black spraypaint) engrave brass, aluminum, and even mild steel, with only 5 watts of output, I'm starting to question the K40. The newer L-Cheapos can probably do an excellent job of metal etching - I don't recommend the Mk4 for that, it was really just a hobby test.
What if you made a slurry of powder coating powder and water or alcohol (or other?) then coat the metal and allow to dry then heat with the laser then wash off the unmelted areas. It would be more permanent than paint and could also be a resist for etching. Power coat can be removed with solvent and is very inexpensive. If it works, the process could be a replacement for screen printing on plaques and control panel lettering.
Very interesting comment, i may get into that. I think a 40watt or more a chinese 30watt laser is just to weak for melting metals, even in powder form but i may try it out in the future and keep you updated.
Follow up: I mixed some powder coat powder with mineral spirits and it instantly suspended the powder which I poured on a piece of hot rolled steel and it coated it nicely however the mineral spirits separated from the powder which is probably a good thing. It looks very promising. I will heat it with a torch after it dries and see if it acts like powder coat. Water doesn't want to mix with the powder and alcohol makes it form a glob so there is some interesting chemistry going on but not useful. The process might also be used to etch circuit boards.
The dried powder coat / mineral spirits slurry layer acted just like normal powder coat when heated. Hope this is helpful for someone.
Have you tried water with dishwasher soap to break the water tention and mix in the powder, maybe that works? Where do you get the powder for the powdercoating from? For my knowlege powdercoating works by electric polarisation to make the powder stick to the working piece and baking it at high temperatures to melt the coating permanentely to the working piece, but arent there other chemical processes involved too?
I tried a micro drop of Dawn dish soap and the powder did mix with water but it didn't coat as evenly as mineral spirits. The mineral spirit slurry worked very well. While watching the slurry it seemed that a standing edge around the metal part so the slurry would pool might be helpful and maybe make the edge from an absorbent material to wick the mineral spirits away to speed drying. My simple test took about 45 minutes to dry but I waited a couple hours before baking.
I have a Harbor Freight powder coating system and have done quite a bit of experimenting but I'm not an expert. It's my understanding that the chemistry of the powder include properties that make it retain a static charge. Once the powder is deposited it melts and coalesces when heated to about 400 degrees and creates a very hard surface, it's a very simple process. Harbor Freight had the lowest cost powder last I checked
Could you electrolyze wood by spraying a metallic paint as a base and then laser etch that?
I saw a guy electrolyze a 3d printed helmet using this method
I am experimenting with electroplating at the moment. It is pretty hard to even get a troughout conductive layer of metallic paint in the first place. This paint needs then be treated with a special copper electrolyte to make it conductive. The layer is very very thin, electrolyze would simply remove the metal coating entirely, what could be nice if wanted, but it would not etch into the metal paint.
Is there a reason why you are not using photoresist ?
It could probably be developed using one of the very low power diode laser systems?
Never tried that before.
Been working with laser for a while now, try dental paste, the cheapest one, do a couple of passes at 80% of power (3 at least) and it stick pretty good to metals, i found that the only way to remove it is using a file o a rough sand paper. Try it, cheers!
Very interesting! I will get into this soon aswell! Thanks
huuu
Hi ,
I just would like to know if this K40 laser machine can engrave very fine writing letters which
you can see them but you cant read them without magnifier on acrylic .
thank you
No, you can engrave pretty small fonts but under a certain font size (for my opinion everything below Arial 4) won’t be readable as the mechanical resolution is not high enough. Also acrylics are somewhat warping a very little bit when getting heated over a certain temperature.
@Mancave Effects when cut metal is it possible to cut more then 8mm if needed (wonder if can get a block of metal to cut instead of sheet and make a nice engrave)
Also thought I add most use white board pen over metal as the metal is shiny so pen help engrave and not rebound laser
The K40 laser can’t cut metal, sorry.
You can use nail polish, etch it and when you are done use acetone to remove it.
I mada a followup video recently with some ideas from my subscribers ;)
the paint was the solution !! it takes longer, because it must dry, but is the best
Could you lay the copper on an aluminum block? What about laying the thinner more conductive metals on an aluminum heat sink that works with the water pump?
Well my theory is that metal actually deflects the heat way to quick under normal atmospheric conditions, i think the only way for the laser to have any impact on metal would be to add oxygene gas to the air assist, but it may also burn down my house 😂....
I think the heat is so concentrated on such a small spot for such a short amount of time that there is no way of cooling the sourroundings
I've just bought a fixed focus '40w' diode laser module with a "15 w" optical" power(whatever that means??) which I could engrave stainless and copper directly..deep enough for me to feel the scanlines with fingernail 😱I'm guessing that it is only 7w (biggest single diode nicha/osram make) on the amazon listing it claims the fixed focus point is 0.3mm...maybe power doesn't matter if focus/energy density is high?
Can you provide the link of such laser?
I am thinking that you more likely could engrave aluminum, if it is color (black) anodized. I also have some decent experience about Rubylith film as an etching mask. I have seen some statements that the manufacturer chose to combine the previous different tack grade adhesives so the present offering may not protect as well as the hi-tack version used to do. Anyway, the packing tape is a definite no-go in my book.
How do you use the Rubylith film with the laser? I made a followup video trying spraypaint, moly spray and toothpaste.
Mancave Effects
Just like you tried with the packing tape. You cover the part with a sheet of the Rubylith film and then burn your trace on it. Finally you etch. The two important issues are that you have to make an absolutely bubble free contact and the fact that the color enhances burning effect, so you can minimize the power.
There are videos showing a water spray coating on part, then laying the film which due to the water does not freeze immediately in place. That way you can use a plastic card to squeeze both water and any air out in a systematic way. The film adheres where it meets dry metal. Unfortunately, you still need to somehow -- hair dryer or overnight long time -- let the residual water vapors to completely evaporate before the laser burn.
Then my disclaimer. I have not tried the water method. I just trusted direct dry application to cover some border area of my printed circuit board before etching. My reason was only to minimize the amount of etchant use. Worked quite well. I'll try more of the Rubylith when I get my new CNC engraver assembled.
The previous application was with Toner Transfer process. Which explains my large border areas that I did not want to etch away. The final board itself was less than 1" by 1". And it was double sided.
Thanks, good to know, i may try this out! I also made very positive experiences with spraypaint and plastidip spray even spraypaint works a bit better.
what if the metal is placed on a hotpad in the laser bed...bringing up the internal temp and negating the heatsink effect
I think by doing that the hotpad and modifications needed will cost around the price as a more powerful laser
@@MancaveEffects the hotpads Im looking at cost about 20 bucks
you would need to heat it to about 2500f to make this work
Hab ich das jetzt richtig verstanden mit 40W Co2 Laser geht nix^^? Wie viel Watt bräuchte man für Stahl/Edelstahl^^ Nur zum Gravieren... Also Co2 laser ist wohl die "günstige" Alternative. Ein Faserlaser ist quais der Ruin^^ wie sieht es mit YAG Crystal Laser aus Preisleistung?
Zum Stahl gravieren oder schneiden bräuchte man einen CO2 laser mit mehreren hundert watt. Dabei hängt es nicht nur von der Leistung ab sondern auch von der Qualität der optischen Elemente sowie wir ein prozessgas benötigt. Es gibt aber Diodenlaser die mit wenigen Watt gravieren können.
Was schonmal hier zum Thema K40 kommentiert wurde ist das Blech mit Sprayfarbe zu lackieren und diese dann mit dem Laser wegzubrennen.
what about diode lasers?. they go up to 15W max I guess
Due to their wavelength some diode lasers can engrave metal with even less power than 15w.
Can this cut aluminium and up to what thickness
Nope it can‘t
do u know if u can etch car projector lens ???
Have not tried glass yet. I know that you can mark glass but you won’t be able to remove material with this setup.
Is there a way to cut on this metals ?
Not with a K40
You need a sandblasted matte finish to etch metal, CANNOT BE REFLECTIVE
Or you can dye it with blueing. I have had some success with it
Can I engrave river rocks with this one?
Good question, it will definately burn into oxid layers that may cover the rock, but i would need to try it. Maybe i make a video about it in the future!
Mancave Effects I would also like to see how it works in the following related materials:
Granite (black is fine), marble, (I have seen it do slate w/o a problem at pretty good speeds), and tile - both glazed and unglazed, such as red terra-cotta as would be typical in a cheap red clay pot, or etching a pattern on unglazed ceramic which could then be glazed to colorize the drawn design and fired.
Lastly - how does it work on Anodized Aluminum? (Especially Black anodized, or anodyne on other metals).
All of these are important considerations for me in choosing a reasonable cost laser system for small scale business use. While I like the easy upgrades on the K40 I wonder if I would need to upgrade to a 75,100 or 150 watt CO2 laser.
Lastly, can you use a combining prism/mirror to add one of the other types of lasers (such as the 10watt 405nm diode or maybe a few watts of green laser) either as a substitute beam or in combination with the IR CO2 beam? (& since they rely on different methods, what advantages might you get in the combination beam)
Very curious as to your opinion there.
Many thanks for your videos and hopefully your response
it does look as if your laser is way out of focus on those metal sheets
The CO2 laser produces a beam @ 10600nm in the infrared spectrum, you cant see it with the naked eye. What you are seeing is the red targeting laser he has mounted to roughly see where the laser is targeting, you can see its mounted offset to the main laser at an angle. At 2:38 you can see it mounted behind the white air assist tube
You really need to do something about the volume of the music at the end of this video!
The overall volume is at -3db as usual ;)
Compliment from Palermo francesco
So in other words just spend the extra coin on the can of spray made specifically for laser engravers
There is a follow up video, for me even the Cermark spray does not work with the K40.
Hey, first of all, super useful video you made here +1 for that! I was wondering im on the verge of buying one of these and i was planning to use this piece of software www.scorchworks.com/K40whisperer/k40whisperer.html which makes me wonder which controller board yours has since it only supports a couple. Would be great if you could shed some light on which one you have!
+Hawaiian Snow thanks for the +1! Let me check tomorrow what board it is. But i could imagine that in china they throw in boards they have available. I know that i got the newest version of the board "vers 2" but i dont know if there is a newer version by now or if it is compatible with k40 whisperer... It should work in my opinion as there arent so many but still something to try out.
+Hawaiian Snow my board is called M2 NANO firmware vers. 2017.03.25
I think I'd rather invest in a 500 watt laser tube
I want to do dmls
you are aware that your green glasses are not for the K40 ??
you will need a 1060nm set
+patrick maartense yes, you are right, apparently the seller claimed that it was suitable for a co2 laser, but i had ordered some proper 10600nm glasses recently.
same here, a decent pair is a must have .
also got a few additional lenses and air assist. starting the mods this week, as well as z Adjustable scissor lift with spike bed
Winiger ? .... where do I get some Winiger ?
Servant Fiss Vinegar is available in every grocery store....
butt you said Winiger :P
thank you but why this music !
easier to just make a stencil with a plotter or cricut lol
I mada a followup video recently with some ideas from my subscribers ;)
bring the laser closer to workpiece
it would defocus the beam
Tooooo mutch work for nothing.. you better buy a label printer for around 50-80$/€ and you can make labels without any lasercutter byurself especially for electrochemical etchings. Or go and order some stencils by professionals companies for less than few dollars/euros.
The answer is no.
I did, but CZcamss algorythm is not showing videos sometimes. You can check on my channel, the video has been uploaded only three or four months ago.
Here is an English lesson for you. Two To Too. Three. That's as bad as "i seen it".
Just writing a few words hardly qualifies as a lesson.
@Thumper J KO
you know nothing jon snow
Mis-Titled. Call this how to stencil with your Laser. You mentioned laser engraving and said it was time consuming. But that is why i started to watch your video. Stick with you title next time.
I'll save you 13 mins, no it won't.
Wrong as you can see in the followup video...
@@MancaveEffects I didn't watch the follow up video. I watched this one where the title ask if the k40 could engrave metal and in this video the answer is no.
get rid of the f-------g music