Lessons Not Learnt | Italian Armored Units During the Italian Invasion of Albania
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
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In our previous videos discussing Italian armored forces in World War II, we have emphasized the issues they encountered with outdated equipment, poor training and low morale. However, though more than justified by the historical record, these stereotypes were not always upheld. In this video, we will be discussing one of the few operations in which Italian tanks were able to play to their strengths, and played a limited yet useful role in the conquest of a foreign country. In this case, the country was the Kingdom of Albania, one of the fractured Balkan states that Benito Mussolini desperately - and foolishly - wished to make the cornerstones of his modern-day Roman Empire.
Article: tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/it...
Sources
Ufficio Storico dello SME Le truppe italiane in Albania (Anni 1914-20 e 1939) Roma 1978
Niccolò Lucarelli Italiani in Albania 1939-1945 Parma 2021
Bernd Jürgen Fischer Albania at war 1939-1945 West Lafayette 1999
Antonello Biagini and Fernando Frattolino Diario Storico del Comando Supremo Volume I Tomo II Roma 1986
Rodolfo Puletti, Dante Saccomandi and Dario Cerbo I Lancieri di Aosta dal 1774 al 1970 Out-of-print edition 1971
Rodolfo Puletti Genova Cavalleria 1683 1983 Padova 1985
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Music:
Bushwick Tarantella by Kevin MacLeod
An article by Daniele Notaro
A script by Jeran Korak
Narrated by Aurum
Edited by @@BattlehammerWoT
Sound edited by Aurum
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Kinda weird that a documentary about tanks, Wargaming.Net's World of Warships are you major sponsor. Hey I am happy, already playing.
Of course the L3 wasn't a piece of junk. It was a tankette. And if you look at WWII and even much later, vehicles with similar designs were very useful in many ways, but NOT as primary combat vehicles in tank formations.
They could have been remodelled into something similar to the universal carrier.
They could have been used as support for actual tanks.
They could have been used as rapid mobility MG support similar to how Germany employed some of its motorcycles with MG on the sidecar.
Etc...
As a designer, I can state very clearly that the L3 tank is the pinnacle for me in terms of design. Please note that this tank was designed in the early 30s. It is a tankette that is very cheap to produce, uses limited resources well, is fast, agile and provides fire support to infantry. It is mainly designed for mountainous regions. However, it did its job very well in the colonies against rebels or against small countries. It showed great export success at that time. It has been exported to many countries.
It is undoubtedly not a weapon you would use against a country that has adequate anti-tank weapons. It is not a weapon to be used in tank warfare, especially against the big tanks of that country.
With how quickly it got out classed by even machine gun fire and how limited the Italian industry was I don't know chief; the French were probably taking the win for the pinnacle of what early light tanks should be in the 30's. The L3's were just too lightly armored and underpowered/cheap for them to withstand the evolving climate of warfare and were mediocre at best.
You can say that about the Soviet t26 or bt5, which absolutely destroy the vehicle, and were also built in the 30's. Heck, a panzer 2 would do the same, also built in the 30's. The japanese had a tank that would demolish it also, ha-something, but also built in the 30's.
Frankly, the initial Italian "tank" was just an upgraded copy of the British bren carrier.
@@phoenix211245 What you say is true and there are propositions that I agree with, so I would like to share a few brief notes just to contribute to the conversation.
Combat is a whole and the L3 is not a vehicle designed for tank to tank combat, as it does not have a cannon anyway. It has dual machine guns. Although games such as War Thunder and WOT made great contributions to the subject, they spread the misconception that war is only an event between tanks. Tanks are not something you see very often, especially in a battle in the 30s, and they were used en masse later on, with the establishment of armored divisions. For example, there are no tanks in German infantry divisions.
You can use L3 in a mountainous area. You might use it in a forest which is not dense. You cannot use the tanks you listed. You are comparing BT-5 with L3, what you need to do is compare 1 BT-5 with 4 L3s. Imagine planning to attack an infantry-held position in rugged terrain. Do you want 4 L3s or 1 BT-5? I prefer the first one.
@@XIIItan Yes, the L3's were made for mountain combat on the border between France and Italy. And, unfortunately for the Italians, if you compare OPERATIONAL numbers, there would be 3 bt5's for every L3. And that is counting that 3/4 of soviets armor in 1942 was not operational.
If you have a choice between a paper target with two machine guns, or 3 paper targets with a machine gun and a cannon that can shoot HE rounds, and can also go faster.... My choice is on the BT5.
The L3 was actually worse than the polish tankettes, and only a step above the bren gun carrier. And no one calls the bren a "tank"
@@XIIItan Oh, and yes, the majority of combat tanks saw was NOT against other tanks. Still, every single nation in WW2, and every single one since that time found that you need something above a 20mm caliber at the very least on your IFV. With the exclusion of a few dedicated missile platforms anything qualifying as a tank needs an even heavier caliber.
The L3 is frankly closer to the German half truck, both are equally armored, both have mounted machine guns, but the germans can also carry a squad of infantry, therefore, are a superior option.
The Italians knew their industrial power and armour wasn't good enough but yoloed regardless hoping the war would be won fast by Germany.
Mussolini gambled with the future of a nation and the lives of millions even if his advisors were strongly against it. This shows how bad dictatorships are.
Finally some Gen X with word "YOLOed",
It's a well known fact that Italy thought the war is going to be somewhere in early 1940s when they signed the pact of steel with Germany, they never realized that Germany gonna start the whole thing too early
The Italians were getting ready for war in 1961 I read somewhere. Hitler just jumped the 🔫 by a few years.
😅
Not sure how true it is, but I read that the Italians thought the optimal time for war would be around 1942, but they joined in 1940 because it looked like Germany was about to win and gain all the spoils.
>Most successful armoured assault by fascist Italy
>tanks dont do anything
Even winning the battle couldnt save the Italian army from meme status 😭
I saw a video recently of one of those tiny little italian tankettes driving around in the middle east in the modern era- somehow.
Always good to have information on lesser known conflicts and I'm always interested in hearing about the armour of countries like Italy and Japan. Thanks
2:02 End of the "Battleship Lake" Ad.
The L3 was something more than junk. Before being processed by factories, it was largely iron ore deposits with a bright future ahead. Little did they know.
The L3 also and variants saw action in the eastern front. So imagine being in one of these and going up against T34 or KVs.
Imagine being in one and going up against the humble t26.... Which posed just as much of a threat and soviets had thousands of...... Which could pop your hull open and you could do nothing about.
Never mind the heavies, even the lightest tanks like the t26, bt5, m3 stuart, tetrarch... Posed an existential threat to that abomination.
Heck, the American M2 would do that, and it was scrapped for being too much of a lemon.
@@phoenix211245 the Tankette is probably great for infantry support but its just not a tank
@@derlasercrafterwally4342 Yeah, it's more like an oversized bren carrier, though the bren had a version with a mounted AT rifle, and could probably pose just as much danger to it as a tank.
@@phoenix211245The Italians should have upgraded the CV/33 with a turret armed with a machine gun or a 20mm auto cannon capable of rotating 360 degrees. Basically like the Japanese tankettes which all had turrets.
Italians had powerful guns , i.e. AA and naval guns with flat trajectory, just like other nations. They also had steel of decent quality and quantity. What they lacked are powerful engines. You cannot build tank weighting 50 tones with 90 mm gun if you don't have engine in 400-500 hp class. Only in 1943 near the end they started producing reasonably powerful engines, but it was too late.
The basic Italian soldier was pretty good, in fact. The problems were that they were poorly lead at the top; most generals, colonels and majors got their positions thru nepotism or bribery. Italy wasn't quite developed enough economically either.
yes, and they lacked automatic weapons, some of their artillery and mortar shells didn't explode and so on... also, they suffered from their ultraconservative senior officers' decisionmaking, which still thought that swords and horses were an inalienable part of modern warfare, much in a similar way to the Japanese
@@TheGhostofCarlSchmittNot only that, they had crippling failures in equipment. Some soldiers, like in any force, stood to the death after El Alamein, hence my claim.. Name one item, you can be sure the Italians were short of it. Respect to them though, just like the Soviets, Finns, British, USA, Japan, etc, etc.... they fought. It gets hard to see the story behind a pile of bodies, but all our records say that some Italian archives are true.
My granny worked at POW camps in the States during WW2, she said the Italians were gregarious, singing, generally happy ish 😄, the Germans on the other hand were sullen, not happy to be there.
It was her opinion that the Italians were lovers not fighters. I wonder if her opinion of them is biased 🤔 because she visited Italy in the early 30s, she said the Brown shirts were very handsome😂😂
@@Kruppt808 Don't know. Though Italy got the reputation as a useless power, it was mostly down to the equipment. There were multiple units that fought to the last tooth, as they had run out of bullets hours ago.
Hopefully your grandma saw the ones who realized it was pointless to fight.
Yah it's not a criticism against the Italian trooper in ww2. Just something I remember her telling me😊
Italy was the first nation before outbreak of WW2 in utilizing mobile armoured warfare in the occupation of Albania
Danke!
Thank you@
What they didn't learn in Spain they certainly wouldn't have learned here ...
In Spain they were the only tanks in business.
Wait until 1942, and the Italian will see how their easy conquests turns into Vietnam when the Albanians peasantry tree no longer support Italy Monarchy and Business class literally have ownerships over their lands, their farms and everything else Corporatism have to offer.
Good Video. Nicem that you are getting some sponsoring money :)
italy; the 2nd best ww1 tanks of ww2!
Also I want to point out you ignored one major thing that caused the Albanian military to be quite bad due to the deal the last king took basically the military was under Italian thumb which they mostly filled with Italian commanders and such and leaving did put massive gaps in leadership and arms
Galeazzo Ciano was Mussolini's son-in-law, not his "son."
It is still a Cute little tank ❤❤❤❤❤😊
What are those l3 we see with some kind of boogies? Those boogies with 2 larger roadwheel remind me of the 1943 fast light tank prototype which i can t remrber the name.
The bogie-suspension is the NORMAL for the L3. It's not until the L3/38 upgrade that it switches to torsion bar suspension.
The boogie suspension wouldn’t be developed until the rise of disco in the mid 1970s.
What i don't get is why the Italians did not add a 360 degrees rotating turret to their CV/33 tankettes?
Ciano was Mussos son in law
L3, junk unless when facing no resistance at all. I think that they could have saved money by making it out of cardboard (and hoping for favorable weather), because it would not struggle any more than it historically did, and it would probably be faster and more reliable.
the L3 is not a tank, it is a repositionable machinegun nest. It is capable of moving up just behind the infantry, giving them fire support, or quickly reinforcing defensive positions that are under attack. A good vehicle, but not a tank, or a tank killer.
Tell that to the Italians. Their doctrine said it was a tank and they used it as a tank.
@@TanksEncyclopediaYT like a land ship, sailing across the battlefield, impervious to all harm!! Viva Italia!
well, they were easily transportable, could easily operate in cities and mountains and were perfectly suitable against the type of lightly armored troops they would have encountered. At the start of the war, they could have been considered suitable for the task
See the problem is that the Italians never imported the Bob Semple tank from New Zealand, and that was their main problem as we all know that absolutely NOBODY can STOP the glorious BOB
I 🫶🏻 his voice
"Surrendering to Lt..Webers dog is preferable to an italian."
Who said this?
@@georgesmith5708 czcams.com/video/W12BO9zJboY/video.html
@georgesmith5708 it's the movie Captain Corelli's Mandolin
I just realized he was a captain.
I wonder what tank Wikipedias favourite tank is that a question that some days needs to be answered
If Galeazzo Ciano was Mussolini's son, how come he had a different surname?
He was his son-in-law
What was the strategic value of taking Albania? It would seem that the military operation would cost more than the place is worth.
Just a flex by Il Duce?
Oil reserves, a foothold in the Balkans? Geopolitics much?
Natural resources and controlling the entrance to the Adriatic Sea
@MisterOcclusion....the many empires that have passed through here don't think like you....for example The Ottomans lost more men in Albania than in all the wars against the other Balanic peoples combined
however the video is more than 90% correct but those who do not know the history of Albania, the geopolitical context and Albanian political movements both internal and external of the period cannot understand why the Italians entered Albania so easily..keeping in mind that the Italians were already defeated in Albania a few years ago
just as many do not understand why the Italian soldiers in Albania were so easily transformed into partisans forced to fight against their German allies until the total liberation of Albania.....and Albania was the only country that was not helped by the Red Army or by the allies with the Lend-Lease
The individual units did learn, they just couldn’t apply it with limited industry and their army’s brass having a stick up the bum.
I don't think L3 were needed at all, in this invasion...and Italian Intelligence should have this info!
Whatever genius in logistics set the two ships at the same time must be removed, next time might not be so lucky...
As for the Prince, it is forbidden to surrender-he's not a simple citizen.
Ciano wasn't Mussolini's son
Wow, so there was worse army than italian in WW2....
And Yugoslavia got rolled in 10 days
@@Bekim423 12. Still lasted longer. Not to mention guerilla partisans who never stop fighting, and finally threw out Germans from the country. BIG difference. BIG.
man albania is literally 1/10 the size of italy this is like denmark vs germany
Italy was a poor nation and lacked the raw materials to manufacture enough adequate tanks.
LOL
Hello “historian”, did I hear you right at 3:06? Did you just call Galeazzo Ciano Mussolini’s son? Whaaaat, you meant son in law right, because he married Edda one of Mussolini’s daughters. Bruno was the dictator son. It really bugs me when people who want to teach history to others, make such silly and unnecessary mistakes. You lose 1000 points in respect 👎🏻
Yeah, son in law. He was king, right? That makes him the law, ergo son full stop.
I jest, of course. I know it's not funny.
Especially compared to your joke about 1000 respect points and how they presumably have more value than the act of watching, commenting on, and otherwise interacting with the content.
Quite funny.
Could you post a full rebuttal video and teach the actual history of the conflict? I'd much like to learn further from you.
History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.
-George Orwell
@SilverShamrockNovelties whenever I read something like this I think of the Twilight Zone episode Obsolete
A little boost to the audio level would be beneficial.
My Dad was the gunner in an L3/35 during the fighting in the Balkans after the outbreak of WW2. I have a great snapshot of him in September 1939 sitting on the tank. Despite being designed for mountains, his tankette rolled down a mountainside injuring his back and he was invalided out. Father started as a loyal Fascist but was disillusioned by the horrible reality of the enemy soldiers he machine gunned. He went to Germany and spent most of the rest of the war as a worker in the BMW aircraft engine plant.
the italians NEVER invaded albania. .the albanians practically invited them. they were so hungry that really begged to become an italian protectorate
Ummmm, no.