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The Most Hated Role in Gaming | Asmongold Reacts
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- čas přidán 24. 11. 2023
- Tank.
by @Akshonesports • The Most Hated Role in...
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I love playing Tank and Healers in any games, but holy shit some people make it insufferable to be tanks and heals.
same.
Ran a 19 atal dazar today, none of the dps moved for the adds spawning except our ranged player, so it was constantly healing through 3 stacks of the dot. Died to spider typing trying to tell them to do the mechanic and move out. You know what the little fiend said to me? " Let's try again, this time do some actual healing " (I was on 168k hps). It's usually a pretty thankless job and people don't know what's going on lol.
i play games for 21 years and playing tank in dota 2 is the best feeling in any game i played , likelly because its a optional role , not every offlaner is a tank , but if you pick a tank in the right match it can be insane to feel immortal while annoying everyone who ignores you because you take so long to die , i think forcing people to be a tank everytime is the shit part
It's way worse as a tank imo. As a healer I just have fun when people fuck up and I really have to start healing for real. But as a tank, it's so annoying having to go pick up mobs because the dps aren't respecting the threat meter when engaging a pack and the hunter is multi shotting before I've even reached the mobs.
I wonder why 🤔
As a person who play supports & tanks in online games i think the most annoying thing is then a teammate who make tons of mistakes starts to blame you just because you play a supportive role and in their mind you should prevent any their mistake for them.
Also: if you play tank/support/healer and your team loses/do not succeed - you are a bad tank/support/healer no matter what you do. Its a rule of modern online games it seems.
I feel this in Overwatch so much lol
God, so much this. You can only do so much to keep the baby out of the fire - sometimes the baby needs to take responsibility for its own actions.
overwatch supports in a nutshell: "dps is out of position, gets killed, blames the healer for not keeping them alive, then gets even more mad when the healer dies trying to save the out of position dps by calling you a feeder" Cycle repeats ad nauseum
"because you play a supportive role and in their mind you should prevent any their mistake for them." - THAT, absolutly THAT is WHY the support role exist btw, well its true you shouldnt prevent EVERY mistake, but the more you can prevent or smoothing out as support the better you are as suppport
@@xStoertebeker Unfortunately I cannot mind control my team into *not* diving face first into a wood chipper. You can't fix that.
Asmon makes a really good point about healers. Healing difficulty in raids is heavily dependent on DPS not standing in mechanics. If you have an actual good group, you don't have to heal that much and can predict when you need to heal based on unavoidable damage that stays constant each fight.
DPS still has little they have to do, yes I understand it’s a tanks job to tank but at the end of the day we are humans,DPS has so much to say for literally sitting there doing damage and nothing else, there are so many times a boss will do an aoe that’s completely avoidable but the dps will sit there die and blame both the healer and tanks for it happening, at that point it’s not worth being a tank or healer.
I don't really agree with his stance on difficulty. But really it's more a question of what exactly is difficulty. While he is correct that as long as nobody dies, you have a good tank/healer. And DPS can always be faster. There's the other side of difficulty, which is what is required for failure. As DPS, you will rarely be responsible for failure, especially in earlier games. In more recent games/expansions, you have bosses with rage mechanics where you need to kill a boss within a certain amount of time or it's an instant wipe. Personally I hate these because they always feel so arbitrary, discourage good and methodical playing and encourage "stand in the fire for more DPS". In other words, if you suck as DPS, most of the time the run will merely be slower. While if you suck as healer/tank, you will fail.
@@sitnamkradDPS is about rotation and gear. That's it, and not standing in mechanics.
A healer has to keep idiot DPS alive if they screw up with mechanics. Because if you don't have enough DPS alive it makes the fight that much longer when you OOM.
A run with smart DPS and a smart Tank is super easy, outside of unavoidable damage by bosses, you can almost sleep though fights.
However a bad tank that can't control agro, or DPS that takes unnecessary damage makes the game harder
That's exactly the problem. Most DPS players are dumb. So they will fixate in their rotations and forget about the fight mechanics. Those mechanics will make the Healer/Tank life difficult, because they will need to save them.
A DPS who doesn't follow mechanics just dies, they usually get killed before a heal could be cast on them. Most of the difficulty from healing is from trying to find who the hell is getting targeted by random unavoidable damage and prioritizing heals during raid damage. DPS have 1 target to pay attention to, heals have 25 targets to pay attention to. I flip from heals to DPS in raids and DPS is by far the easier role.
In my experience as a tank, I have found it to be the most fulfilling role. Until you step into those sweaty challenging levels, most players don't throw you under the bus for a mistake and most mistakes you can recover from. As long as you're keeping the boss's attention and you're not dying, A+.
been playing a DK in lich king expansion as a blood dk tank...each time i see one of those sweaty dumbass, i done one single thing to, i like to says this :"ho? you want to go FASTER?....okay then, go first, im gonna regen my aoe and let you die cause you're not my problem anymore"....and like 50% of the time they rush with one or the 2 other dps...and the healer just stay put cause he is either out of mana or is smart enough to see that, if im not there as a tank to help them, he is gonna die too..and they always die, they may kill 1 group of ennemy along, but when facing a boss or forget that ennemy patrol well...they die and it's fun to watch, i wait for a sorry then goes back to tanking
I think DPS is the most popular role because it has the least responsibility. If the Healer/DPS dies the Tank gets the blame. If the Tank dies the Healer gets the blame. The DPS has to do something very stupid and easily avoidable to mess up. For Tanks/Healers there is a ton off stuff that can wrong that you have no control over, but you will 100% get blamed for it anyways, even if no one was at fault. One bad dungeon/party can very easily turn someone off Tanking/Healing.
imagine a long time ago a man standing in a dark candle lit area ,tries to make his invention the light bulb and someone walks in and says your so stupid why would you make that now i cant use these candles i love so much ,so this person instead stops making this light bulb so that this other person can use his candles ,would you like to be using a candle right now or a light bulb ,stop letting what other people think control your life ,if you wanna tank ,just tank,if you wanna heal ,just heal ,if you fuck up a group,or if someone blames you for a fuck up that is not your fault,1 ignore them ,2 argue with them and prove them wrong if thats your thing ,or move on to another group ,look it over figure out what you could do better and be better become better ,dont pack it up and give up because you messed up once ,you think everyone else was perfect the first time they started tanking or healing hell no,you know how many times i have messed up on all 3 roles ,so many too many to count and i have played this game for years WOW,you know what i do ,think about what went wrong ,take a mental note ,and run it back ,be better the next time not the best the first time. this give up mentality now days is so horrible ,do what you wanna do but put some effort into it ,if your literaly shit because you dont care and put no effort in ,then yeah your gonna get shit on by everyone for not trying ,the best thing you can do if you fuck up is acknoledge it ,its respectful and better then just ignoring it and not trying to improve ,shit earlier today i lightning bolted a group on my shaman on accident and pulled a group into a group we had just pulled and wiped are mythic +,first thing i did said im sorry i accidently lightning bolted a random mob sorry for wiping us all,everyone said np man its cool it happens. and im not saying your saying it would turn you off from those specs so this is directed to you ,this is just a general statement to those that would feel that way. do some research try alittle ,learn from your mistakes and dont just give up.
And solo players usually prefer dps because they are better soloing stuff, questing, farming, etc. Dont rely on a group so much
@@dustincatherman4085 That's a really long sentence.
@@dustincatherman4085 So that guy made the lightbulb and then had the idea stolen and marketed by another dude who became rich off of it.
@@Dangerous1939 This is the sad fact. Tanks and healers generally need each other for regular play, dps don't if they can farm mobs fast enough. In addition because tanks are slow killers they level slower not in parties. DPS just speed through content solo.
The criteria for deciding "who is a good tank/healer/dps" is different. As you said, tank and healer are binary, but thats because their roles are the most important since they're the ones that lead to a clear or a wipe. Having a bad DPS is still salvageable. Having a bad tank or healer is generally not salvageable.
Yup, which is why they are always being blamed regardless of how badly your DPS do in any giving circumstances(unless it's Lost ark or similar with instant team wipe). I'm 95% of the time a healer class because no one likes to play the babysitter micro managing my cooldowns, aoe heals, healing over time, instant heal, revives, debuffs/cleanse, my mana, avoiding over-healing for boss aggro, while dodging AOE attacks.
Then, whenever I get tired/bored of it I make a DPS class only to find out how easily it is just to learn the optimal combo casually or just watch videos of bosses's attack pattern. Basically, a DPS class is so simple people actually just make a script for bots and you couldn't tell the difference unless the game has intricate mechanics.
The thing is as a tank you just need knowledge of dungeon/encounter to be seen as good. If u suck at mitigation people wont notice (unless ur super trash) because you cant track it on a meter, the healer will get blame or dps. Healing can be tracked but its not as a reliable indicator of performance as checking dps. Also like asmon said, dps performance is compared against the best of the best (parsing)
Tanks only get blame when they fail mechanics of a fight, not if they dont use their buttons right.
and that is why baldy only plays a dps.
@@koo1770 Not really true, you can know the mechanics of a fight like the back of your hand and still do poorly... If all you needed was knowledge of the encounter/dungeon that implies someone who has never tanked before could hop on someone elses character and do it no problem.
Completely depends on what you're doing... Dungeons with a bad tank are very doable if the rest of the group is good and/or OP unless it's one with fights that are very dependent on the tank being good
I really enjoy playing heals in MMO's for one big reason. No fight is ever the same no matter how many times you do it. Sure the mechanics are the same, but the other factor (your allies) have the potential of making the fight far more exciting or frustrating. I really enjoy that challenge. Therefore, the game doesn't get stale as fast which is fun
Exactly! Not to mention the fact that dps’s are usually just following the same strict rotation over and over again to the point where it’s not only repetitive but your basically playing a single player game with other player doing their own thing in the background. Meanwhile healers not only get the freedom to pick and choose which ability they think is more appropriate for a given situation, but when your healing you HAVE to keep the entire party in mind at all times. So basically healing feels a lot more strategic, makes you feel like a part of a team, and it even gives you more “freedom of expression” to play using your own style. But to be fair, if everyone else in the party is playing perfectly, healing can get quite boring since all you do is spam dps abilities.
Agree 100%. I exclusively played healer during my time in WoW and no two runs were ever the same, as the team was always the deciding factor on difficulty/ excitement. You know within the first pull if it's going to be a run you are going to have to work your ass off or just relax and join the dps.
That said I was not a raider, 5-mans only and all of them pretty much as randoms. It never got boring for me because of the team variables, I even went so far as to have multiple alts xp locked at certain levels so I could "shepherd" new tanks through various dungeons to help them learn/ gain player experience in a more "friendly" environment as I had witnessed the abuse tanks got even in RFC, when it was obvious they were new players going for their first run....put me off ever trying to be a tank if I'm honest.
Oh then you'll love ow2
Once BC was released, I rolled ally shaman and never looked back. Not only were the healer dynamics in place as the other commenters have described, but shaman was a very control-oriented class. Tracking the enemy mobs to anticipate enemy spells to either shock or ground their spells, running in to drop slowing totem to help kite when u know ur tank is losing aggro, tracking the mob that you frogged, and omg those moments when the taunting totem would actually save ur stupid mage from that last hit before the mob dies. Shaman was so fking fun.
Tanking: When they die, everyone knows and shit's gonna hit the fan
Healers: When they die, rest of the group gonna be feeling it, but can still be managable.
DPS: When they die, aint no one even gonna notice/care unless you hit some sort of enrage.
What I've noticed bouncing between all 3:
DPS: When they make a mistake, nobody will notice/they get credit for kills.
Healer: When they make a mistake, only tanks or entitled DPS will notice/they get credit as the most valued support role.
Tank: When they make a mistake, everybody notices/they aren't recognized by anybody except healers.
Good dps love a decent tank
Just too many entilted dps mains these days.
@@queenbrightwingthe3890this is the biggest thing. Entitled dps players blaming other people for their deaths. You get toxic players being tanks and healers sure...but nowhere near as common as toxic dps players
The healers knows when the dps make mistakes
I disagree about being credited as a healer/support. This is just wrong. It used to be true but nowadays everybody is expecting a way higher level of skill from their supports/healers than what they're playing on. They don't consider that healers/supports are gonna make the same amount of mistakes as DPS do. And I also experienced way more praise for tanks than for supports/healers
As a Tank myself, I think the the main reason new players dont want to play Tank is, you have so much more responsibility than the others.
You are the driver of the car and the others just hop on in and enjoy the ride without much preparation.
You however have to know the hole dungeon/raid and have the courage to lead the group.
For me, I loved tanking mythic raids with my tank buddy and in M+ I just enjoy leading the group through the dungeon.
Something that Asmon said a little later in the stream was that new players should play DPS first to learn the mechanics of the Raid. Then, they could choose whether or not they want to level up a tank
True.. As a tank i used to lead the party, pick up mobs while the damage dealers just clicked the assist button and maybe some skills if they got bored. Only the healers did some real work.
The thing with tanking is you have to know all abilities of the mobs AND know your mate's class AND know what to do with your CD and possibility for kit the mob to not die with the pull you are in and the next !
Thats why new tank are bad, they just know what the mob they have in front will do.
But when you play tank good, your DPS AND the healer will tell you. And thats feel nice.
But for me, play tank is only really fun in M+. In raid is not fun its boring. (as i say,as a super casu DH tank, its my just my pov)
I always laugh, people are so terrified of tanking and it's honestly easier than DPS'ing, lol. Healer is the worst job as you go higher and higher as it has the most buttons with the most stress and need to be monitoring everything. Definitely think you're right that people are scared of the responsibility of leading people, Personally absolutely love tanking especially on pally because the skill ceiling is higher for your utility even though holding threat and picking adds up is mindless.
@@shibomi1 i have played wow for a long time ,and i do enjoy tanking but anytime new content comes out that im not 100% confident in knowing the mechanincs or the best route i take my dps classes through the content until i have seen it and im confident in my ability to lead the group and tank it ,then i will tank it ,i know not everyon has this luxury someone has to be the one to take the lead until its figured out ,i just prefer to not do that ,i think people who dislike tnaking do this the opposite way they just say im gonna try tank today. and they do it so fucked up because they have no prior knowledge of the dungeon alone or content at all and wanna try tanking ,and then say its tanking that sucks ,one of the biggest reasons i like tanking is because of what was said in this video good tanks are hard to come by. so often doing like mythic + ill see a tank pulling 1 mob at a time like its classic wow all over again.
As someone who played tank a lot in Overwatch, I can say that it was both the most fun role and the least fun. When you have a decent team that follows up with you and the game balance is good, it feels great. When the game balance is poor, your hp gets melted too quickly and there's almost nothing you can do.
Had I guy yesterday who spent the whole game trying to counter pick me.
When asmon said he thought tanks were popular in overwatch I almost spit out my water 😂
Tank in ow is just smacking your head against a wall hoping not to get counter picked to oblivion
@@Blacky_ljb1 Yup! Add one tank in the party and from 5-15 min queue you go to intant-1 min queue! Ha and without using priority token!
As someone whos done all 3 roles, DPS is definitely the easiest. It requires the least amount of situational awareness and reactivity since you only have to care about yourself and the mob you're attacking. Healers have to be constantly ready to drop heals onto 1 of 25 people randomly getting nuked down and tanks have to make sure each mob is held onto them.
The most hated role in gaming is anything that isn't DPS. It doesn't matter how important the other roles are or how much they might carry others because at the end of the day the DPS feels like the hero. Most people want to feel like a hero.
in what content do DPS get to feel the hero, though? in their headspace, of course. dps are just number pushers, they are the extras in a movie.
the tank is always the main character, the healer their sidekick and the dps are the hired goons
@@Pilvenuga haha thats pretty funny i like how you called dps hired goons
@@Pilvenuga in their head is all that matters. You might want to see it as tank is the main character but I dont think most see it that way. People like viewing themselves as the main character. They also like playing dps far more often, in just about every game without exception, than any other roll.
@@Pilvenuga Action rpgs without tanks exist and good players can play without healers too. Passive mitigation is inferior when the game has active defences like dodges, parries or blocks which require inputs instead of a passive stat.
@@Nephale yes, and in those games there are no role classes, there are only players
Tank might not be the hardest but whenever I'm playing tank I feel the most stressed out because the success if the raid is entirely in your hands and your duty is to be the most tryhard and knowledgeable player in the room. Sure the execution is easy but by comparison DPS is a cakewalk. You just hit whatever the tank is tanking until it's dead.
I think this is why I find DPS to be the most boring. You just hit your buttons and don't get hit yourself. but as a tank/healer you need to have an overall awareness of what's going on all around you, and have control over the battlefield in a meaningful way.
As a blood dk main and raid tank for my guild.. I’m the least tryhard we have in the raid team.. we joke that I can just ignore mechanics because I just deathstrike through all damage. And they’re not entirely wrong. I can mess up so badly and still come out fine in the end. As long as my boss positioning is reasonably manageable for the rest of the raid, it’s all good. It’s the same in dungeons.. I take forever to learn mechanics because I can just stand in fire and out heal it
@@pancakerzzzyou find dps to be boring cause you’re turning off your brain and not being aware of the encounter and are dead
@@MFTomp09 Might be the case, idk I only play Vanilla. At 60 as a tank the raid's success is imo entirely in your hands.
Tank in many MMO's have a kind of low skill floor(as long as you know the content a bit), but some of the highest skill ceilings. for example Gunbreaker in ffxiv for ultimates/savages is actually one of the sweatiest jobs in the entire game, if you are actually trying to parse high at all.
I actually LOVE playing both Tank and Support. Those are always my favorite roles in any game. Problem is, with team based games, I have serious distrust and outright bad experiences with teammates who don't know how to do anything other than DPS (and not even good at it) so they leave me to dry constantly. It's unfortunate that people don't understand how to work as a team or play their roles but that's the risk you take with matchmaking. The flashy roles get all the attention and the wannabes who try to play them blame everyone else with the lack of production. Rinse, repeat.
I would love to tank but I see how people trash them constantly. Especially if it’s the first or second time a person has ever ran that instance. They never give him/her time to learn. Same with healer. I see some tanks/Dps run and run and never give the healer a mana break. Then they trash the healer. People suck. Low level dungeons are the most fun because nobody is expecting anything spectacular. Everybody is relaxed and having a laugh. The higher you get, the more uptight and snobbish people are.
@@bigcali173 I would personally reccomend Final Fantasy XIV. The community there has been heavily understanding from all the time I played it and learning bout the three different roles using the duty roulette...hell more then that they been encouraging. Honestly how people like tanking and healing or support in general could be on the community more then just the devs and how they make the roles interact with the game.
Tank is support
Yes and that’s why most people only play dps, no one wants to give a tank or healer a chance
Worst thing about tank is that its a support, so group mistakes get blamed on you, and the healer, even when it wasnt a support's fault at all. and also in high-tier fights, they give tanks a lot of extra responsibility in many MMO's, yet like 90% of DPS players seem to think tanking is "braindead" even though they don't play it in anything other than normal/easy tier content.
Tbh in endgame/high tier content i actually think playing DPS is kind of easier mechanically (not rotationally though). usually less group responsibility/role mechanics.
Tank has responsibilty to keep the pace and needs the most knowledge. A healer, however, has the unfortunate responsibility of saving players who make mistakes, and players make many mistakes.
Technically... not everyone have to be saved
The tank manages the battlefield, the healer manages the party and the DPS manages its ego.
Healers also have the responsibility to keep the tank alive, whether he is a good one or not. And a bad tank makes you struggle, a lot, because all of them think they are invincible and never at fault.
Tanking: Easiest to execute, requires the most pre-knowledge of the content. 1 Fail is a wipe or deplete.
Healing: Scales in difficulty based on how shit your group is.
DPS: Easiest role to carry. You are compared to others in the run, but others also do your job for you if you suck.
There would be a lot more tanks if people would just STFU and stop blaming them for everything (even if its the tank's fault). Its all about respect.
Okay so I see a lot of comments about "why people play mostly dps, why more popular ?" "why does asmon say tank is easier ?" "why is healer less difficult then dps ? huh ?"
1 - people mostly play dps, not because it has less responsibility in terms of how important the role is in the group, contrarily to what I saw in a few comments. It's just because people like flashy moves and big numbers, plain and simple, don't make it complicated.
2 - "Tank is easier", now I am not 100% sure what I'm saying is what Asmon meant, but from my understanding, tank needs more knowledge on the game, but less effort once you do have the gear + knowledge, it is a difficult upwards slope, but once you're on top it gets flatter and you do your job well, which is to not die. Just take aggro, don't die, and you're good. (I know I make it seem very simplistic, of course it depends on the game itself and the way each player sees it, but this is a general assumption from mmo experience)
3 - Same as with tank, healer just needs to make others not die this time. Now I will say I am not in total accord with asmon on this one. In many games the healer/support has to be very careful of position, and has a good view on which players need help and how to help them. Although I do think dps can (not is) usually be harder, but that depends on the characters and the game system thus comes number 4.
4 - Depends on characters/classes, some are easier to play, some are harder, kind of regardless of the role. But dps do tend to have characters that require specific combinations of skills to maximise their output, and if they do one fuck-up on the order or timing in which skills are used, they lose consistant effectiveness. So yes they *can* (not do) tend to be more difficult, but not always, that is blatantly wrong.
Each role is very important, and has its difficulties, but also advantages.
Losing a tank or a healer can easily lose you the battle.
Losing a dps will less often make you lose the battle, (but a lot of time though, which is a pain when you do lose them).
But in the end, the healer, tank and dps all support each other to make a team. One makes the passes, one stops the opponent from scoring, and one scores points. I think you need all of those to make a team, am I wrong ?
T'parle trop.
Le bro il a tout di.
XD@@Entolexeia
In my experience, a good tank is extremely noticeable and get hella praise, but a bad tank gets equal and opposite hate
Real tank dont give a fuck because he will have next queue in 1min and any angry boy is getting a vote kick.
but to become a good tank you have to practice and invest time in it, which is hard when you get flamed for (little) mistakes
Agree, but tas a healer, the issue most of the time is that a good tank will know hes good while a bad tank will also think hes good and play like he is a world first raider.
Its insane how much of a difference this makes in m+/raids. I've had runs where I was struggling so hard that I thought it has to be my fault and literally the next run I got a tank that knows what hes doing and it felt like I could actually do dps on top of healin.
Yea, saying that good tanks don't get any credit is just bad tank propaganda.
A good tank is a night and day difference. And it's certainly noticeable, and noticed by people.
only took me one day to become a great tank in classic wow, its ez
I have played all 3 roles over the years, but got more serious in WoD and onwards. I play healer mostly now because it has the most challenge, I play tank when I want to still have a challenge but relax a bit more, I play DPS when I want no stress and just do the raid. DPS has always been the easiest role in raids and m+ for me.
I love how Lineage 2 did certain tanks, some had a stacking system where after certain amount of hits taken they could pop a self/party buff that would basically turn them into a DPS and allow them to life drain but reduce healing received by like 80%, that made them viable in a solo setting as well as being desired in general party play (for the steroid party buff) even if said content didn't require a tank in particular.
THAT game has the best tanking and not Lost Ark,Gunlancer is a dps not a tank,he cant even aggro raid bosses. Lineage 2 aside all it's flaws is still to this day my most favorite mmorpg,lets see if Throne and Liberty scratches that itch.
Tanks are unsung heroes in video gaming
Asmongold:"NO, because in wow-"
Is basically the whole video
This man really said DPS is the hardest role. I think that's the most L take I've ever seen from Asmon.
He's competing for the Copium awards with this take, that's how big the L is.
@@Mijkami He do think he knows the games, but it is indeed a L take,
he is biased because hes playing a dps in hardcore
He mainly plays DPS so he is going to biased, DPS have almost no responsibilities so he brought up competing with other DPS as an excuse which nobody cares about as long as you meet the DPS check; he was grasping at straws with that excuse. He is right that Tank is easy when you know what you're doing but he is completely ignoring the experience before that and just how much they actually have to deal with during a raid which the video he reacted to was mentioning.
As DPS main who played all roles, I agree with you 100%. And the fact that he is taking dick measuring contest (aka dps meter) as an explanation, while completely ignoring the fact that it is exactly what makes tanking shit experience, just adds to the level of L.
I think Asmon's opinion on Tank's difficulty is generally not true when it comes to team based PvP games. Since you can't effectively aggro enemy players without decent dps or crowd control, and these 2 aspects can easily be imbalanced, either not effective to the point your team gets sweeped because you're not killing nor healing enough or you're so strong that the meta becomes GOAT like
He’s full of bad takes it’s pretty insane given how much he plays
In LoL tanks are evergreen, but because it’s pvp the tanks actually do good damage on top of being tanky and having a lot of CC. Healers are the optional role, you can just have tank or utility supports that don’t heal or shield allies.
You are right that he is 100% talking from a WoW experience. But in turn you are very much so talking from a OW perspective. In LoL for example tanks are very much so not hard (saying this as a tank enjoyer)
@@evangelosvasiliades1204 It's funny cuz I havn't even played OW
Every fight is a dps check. Your healers mana bar is your fight timer. If your dps can not kill everything before your healer OOMs, everyone dies. Every time a dps stands in the fire and the healers have to spend extra mana healing you, that costs you a time penalty. Every time the tank faces the boss the wrong direction and cleaves the whole group, that costs you a time penalty. Every error means the dps has to work faster or the healer will OOM and then everyone dies.
If anyone is curious, it’s incredibly fun to play as a “Tank Assassin” in Dark Souls 3 where you equip heavy gear to defend and help the newer players when they’re in a fight and then sneaking ahead to clear the guys you can take out with one backstab or parry
> "Tanks"
> Show clip of Garen
AINTNOWAY
Back in 2005 I played a warrior tank leading raids for both BWL and AQ20/40, and nobody 'dared' to be sassy because the status of a tank was comparable to the guild leader.
In 2008 TBC when raid sizes started to shrink from 40-man, that coercion started to diminish. I remember tanking Kara enough times to become exalted 10 times over.
Gruul? Every week for years. TK & SSC? People finally started to become annoying. By the time Black Temple was on the agenda, every issue that wasn't a healers fault, was the tanks fault.
By then I simply stopped playing my warrior as it wasn't worth the trouble. I liked leading raids though, so I swapped to mage and led raids from a DPS perspective instead. I quit in Cata as the Death Wing fight was just too bloody obnoxious for everyone involved. That tanks are getting shit is a question of comfort really. A good tank, as the video mentions, is practically invisible - all things go comfortably, mobs are where they should be, bosses can be attacked freely, tactics are followed like an oiled machine.
A bad tank though? "How hard is it too Sunder Armor? How hard is it to just STAND there and hit taunt on cooldown? Bloody useless, trash tanks!"
All a tank needs is two things; Positioning and Timing. Have it? Good tank, nobody cares. Don't have it? Bad tank, useless trash!
In shaiya (i think that was 2008), a warrior is from the dark side! So everyone has a character on both factions!! The dark side looks cool!! Lets play again without the old ones!! 😁😁😁
I've gotten complements as a tank. On one specific occasion, the healer told me I was the best tank he'd seen all playthrough(lvl 55). I find tanking can be very rewarding. I never felt like an invisible cog that either works or doesn't.
A tank is a bridge.. you aren't amazed when it works. Now imagine if it stopped working when you're in it
The first comment people should respect the tank and not give them any flac, because you need a tank /healer, at this point more so than a DPS
I really enjoyed the cool light armour tank that was in SWTOR. Where you relied to dodge and shield generators instead of heavy armour. Was a great concept that I think needs to be implemented in other games.
Anarchy Online had some off-tanking classes like this as well. Martial Artist class was able to dodge tank quite well, but the game was so unique with its implant systems and Attribute/Skill point system you could actually make a SUPER TANKY MMA and tank it like an Enforcer.
Then you had Fixer tanks who literally just wore Grid Armor that made physical attacks miss like 95% of the time depending on what quality of suit you had. (Generally if you where a fixer with a suite it was a high quality because fixer toons where people who had deep pockets lol.)
There was also Metaphysicist class who could tank using his 3 pet system, CC ball, Healing Ball, and Demon tank.
Keepers where a new kind of DPS style tank that was just a better enforcer in my opinion (at least for pvp anyways). They had the same HP, better armor/sheilds and way more DPS.
Adventurers could tank in Cat Mode using HP implants as well as dodge bonus being in cat form or dragon form.
Agent tanks using the miniature form and the shroud of tourin cloak or using Enforcer engrams through agent spells to tank...
Engineers could tank with their 158 white scytheclaw bots if you twinked it low enough, never saw raids done with bots tanking though.
I think AO had such a great community because it was a game with insane item/stat/twinking depth. You could have a level 90 Agent beat a 220 soldier, or a 150 enforcer destroy anyone he felt like it because you twinked on the best 2handed weapon in the game for him to use lol.
same, i enjoy the class identies in swtor where some classes can perform jobs in different ways like Mercs having tons of defense and self healing which frees up heals for the more squishy dps classes and stuff
People don't play tanks because they find the responsibility scary.
As a tank in an MMO, you're expected to lead the group (this is extremely uncomfortable for healer/DPS mains), set the pace, keep them safe, and handle the mobs and the boss in such a way that they don't wipe the party, etc.
All legitimate concerns, but once you've done it a dozen times, you quickly realise these concerns are simply a paper tiger.
It's the same when playing healer: when you start out, you're 100x more paranoid about people's health bars than you should be, and that overwhelming fear is why people are adverse to playing it.
Once you get over that hurdle, both roles are easy-peezy.
Some of my best memories of multiplayer games (a type of game I don't play much) are supporting the team until victory.
Not exactly a role-playing game, but I remember a match in Battlefield 1 where I was practically the only doctor reviving people on the front lines and turned a practically lost Grand Operations game into victory. Running from one side to the other amidst the shouting, explosions everywhere, shots going everywhere and my squad celebrating.
One of the most immersive games and one of the most immersive match in my gaming history.
Healers are the true unsung heroes of any game ever.
Medic was so fun to play in BF1. If you were sneaky and used your tools right you could keep choke points held up indefinitely and players really appreciated it. They also had the best arsenal of guns overall in my opinion. Not only could you be the backbone of your team in most game modes, being able to pick people off with the RSC in a few shots or storming a trench with barrages from the Federov was so damn satisfying.
I love tanking personally, once you get out of the "ahhh the responsibility!" headspace it just becomes an easier DPS rotation with fun bonus situational buttons for defense and such! Plus, you get the satisfaction of tanking the way YOU would want others to have tanked whenever you played a DPS lol
edit: this is my experience playing *extremely casually*, not at all speaking to any actually difficult content lol
also while you have lower dps you can ignore lots of weaker attacks that other classes lose time dodging so you can dps the whole time , this applies even better in games in which the tank just mostly disables enemies and people ignore you due to the fact you take so long to kill , and as a tank you can just control the most dangerous enemies
@@MrRafagigaprtrue whenever i fuck up a mechanic i just laugh it off cause i can eat it
@@MrRafagigaprALSO, stuff like blood dk actually had a decent aoe in their rotation and could always put out middling dps. Was regularly out-dpsing the dps while leveling
Yes i also liked playing casually as a tank until i became quite good at it and wasn't able to progress because of my incompetent teammates cus as a tank no matter how good you play if the others don't do thier part you cannot do anything. You can't deal damage you are entirely reliant on the teammates but then again when i try playing other roles I can't bear the amount of trashy tank players i get
As someone who played nearly every role in both WoW and Overwatch for years, this is usually how it goes:
- Dps players blame healers for not healing them playing bad
- Tank players blame dps for not doing the good dps they think they would be doing themselves
- Healer players blame tanks for being too aggressive and not caring for the party > more damage and deaths
I actually enjoy tanking and healing the most since it's reactive and requires different solutions for different situations. It's an adaptive play style. As a result of mostly playing these two roles I've developed thick skin to overly harsh criticism, while still accepting valid feedback from people I play with. But I can understand the pressure probably gets to be too much for most people so they just opt for DPS, not to mention big numbers = easy dopamine hits in a much more black and white way.
I like playing tanks and healers because I hate being dps with bad ones. Bad support(tanks and healers) cause team wipes. It also hurts because I see a tank or healer do a bad job.
I do think things depend on the game and level of play though. I hardly play online at a high level.
I did like playing druid in classic wow while leveling because I could flex rolls. Once had a shaman that didn’t want to heal and said he could tank. We ended up swapping roles because he couldn’t keep Aggro.
I’ve jumped out of a druid dps roll to heal or protect the healer from Aggro.
It’s just kinda sad that the flexibility isn’t supported or useful later on.
usually i enjoy asmons takes as they are correct a lot of the time. i played all three roles in my time playing wow and dps is by far the easiest and least stressful. dont stand in things and know your rotation. tanking is more knowing the encounter and game knowledge. heal is more reactive and you have to have quick responses.
it depends on the content youre doing whose role is hardest. 5 man its usually harder for healers, as theres only one. raids its tanks as now timing is everything, weak aura type things lessened this a bit, but, not in proper classic and holding threat is harder than most thought. it was easy for dps to surpass you on threat if you werent top of your game, all while surviving. the game made it easier to hold threat as time went on because of this. asmon is speaking here from a later perspective of the game when they dumbed tanking down. dps couldnt shine without a good tank and a healers job was only lessened slightly if the rest of the team knew what they were doing. mana management, which they also dumbed down later, was a massive issue for healers. this was also exasperated by dumb dps standing in stuff. its like hes forgot there was 39 people to keep alive, minus yourself. yes, there was group assignments, but, what if another healer went oom or died.
this is one of the worst takes by asmon yet.
Yeah, spot on. I usually like all Asmon’s takes but I think he needs to think about this a bit more. This video was illuminating the SOCIAL pressure that comes with tanking, and he just glossed over it. Tanking becomes infinitely easier when you have a dedicated group that trusts you or simps for you (like a streamer does). So that social pressure is COMPLETELY gone.
“Being compared to the highest dps player in that encounter is what makes it hard”. Yeah… in like the top 5% difficulty content meant for hardcore players. The guy is talking about the general population.
I would love to see Asmon take a more serious look at this topic and slow down. Not rush a 15 minute content video out.
yeah hes objectively wrong in this vid. hes taking all his tank opinions from WOW and applying them to all other games. which tanking is actually one of the more stressful/hard jobs in a handful of games.
As someone who mains DRK in FFXIV, and couldn’t get into tanking in WoW when I tried it later, the difficulty of playing tanks in PvE games is *heavily* reliant on how much the game emphasizes having to go out of your way to maintain aggro: if you’re having to actively try to keep the boss on you or closely watch the aggro things have, it’s going to be *significantly* harder than if you can just focus entirely on the boss and mechanics. FFXIV does the later, WoW does the former. Having effective ways of maintaining aggro across a group is also extremely important for this, with FFXIV giving AoE rotations (with no damage reduction for hitting large groups) to tanks, and WoW giving Vengence Demon Hunter’s Glaive Toss a cooldown, and pretty small target caps to both that and their other main souce of AoE, Soul Cleave. I’d rather a tanking class be harder than others because it has a higher skill ceiling, not because the devs simply neglected to give it a proper AoE toolkit.
Also, “DPS are the hardest role” is one of the worst takes on gaming difficulty I’ve ever heard. The whole take starting at 14:34 is complete garbage, actually, for the reasons stated above, in addition to the responsibility of it, but the DPS one is *especially* bad. The take is an argument against parsers, except it’s _somehow_ intended to means DPS is the hardest, when that’s *just* other players being obnoxious. Just do your rotation right, and don’t stand in the fire, and unless there’s a specific mechanic you end up needing to take care of, you’ll be fine.
The "other players being obnoxious" is a great take on class difficulty because what else is there to base failure on? Especially in your own preferred design like FFXIV, where a tank can fall asleep on their keyboard and still maintain boss aggro - so the only measure anyone has of anything they do is their DPS.
Goated take. I've played FFXIV and am currently tanking WOTLK Classic in a HC guild and you summed it up perfectly IMO. Saying DPS is the hardest role is false when it comes to WOW imo.
@@ishae3198 Even disregarding aggro, the tanks have to deal with being the focus of the boss' attacks, and healers have to keep the party alive, while the DPS have to do fewer mechanics, and focus on doing damage. Even in terms of other players being toxic, healers and tanks get it worse: if anything screws up, the healers and/or tanks get the blame. That is such a well known phenomenon that _it's used as a minor story element is FFXIV._ Meanwhile, DPS getting the brunt of toxicity is largely relegated to games where parsers are widely used (mainly WoW, with FFXIV going having a "don't ask don't tell" policy on add-ons likely _because_ some people are obnoxious about them), or failing a mechanic in a way that also takes out other raid members. As for what to judge failure on, it's not necessarily obvious a DPS has done poorly unless it gets themself or the party killed, while it can be *really* obvious when the tank or healer fails.
@@AzureGreatheart I suppose it really depends on what kind of content we're talking about. If it's in leveling dungeons or whatever, then yeah, no one really knows or cares what the DPS is doing. But the story's a lot different when you start talking about endgame raiding.
Gotta agree. If healer and tank can be oversimplified to binary, then so can DPS. Did you do enough damage to beat enrage or not?
When i got into wow i began as a healer, my friend (who already played wow for a long time) played as a tank, at first i didn't have to heal that much, but as time passed, my friend started pulling more and more enemies, so i had to be really careful to not let him die, it was a challenge for a begginer like me, but it was amazing how we would tell us our cooldowns so he would know how much he could pull, and i began to understand the role more, having to also heal the dps from time to time cause they would take some damage.
10:27 Reinhardt's Charge Damage was Nerfed from 300 to 225 for no Reason at the start of Overwatch 2. Ramattra has 450 Health and that Red Glow is Nano-Boost, which give him 50% Damage Resistance. Earth-Shatter at Point Blank was Nerfed from 300 to 170 (can't even kill a Fucking Widowmaker!) for the same Reason as Charge (no Fucking Reason whatsoever). Earth Shatter Damage at Range is 50. Fire Strike is 100 Damage. That Ramattra should've died, but he didn't, because of Ana.
In Overwatch, the Supports are the Tanks AND the DPS now. Tanks only get to live if their Supports Pocket them 24/7 and they die if the Enemy Supports Fuck them with Anti-Heal, Damage Vulnerability or just by shooting them from a Range that most Tanks can't even begin to Compete with.
Trust me, you may think you're hot shit on Zarya, but then the Entire Enemy Team just Counter-Swaps to Murder you Specifically and it's your Fault if you Lose a 1V5, it's your Fault for not Counter-Counter-Swapping and Losing all your Ultimate Charge and it's your Fault if your Teammates don't help you out.
Edit: Didn't Realise you thought it was Genji, but still Overwatch Supports are Supports, Tanks and DPS all in one and Blizzard is REFUSING to Nerf them in any Meaningful way and is Instead trying to Buff everyone else for no Reason, which Causes more Power Creep.
After years of dealing with Toxic DPS, I now enjoy being a Toxic Tank. If I'm pulling fast, staying alive and managing to also keep up with your DPS. I'm going to straight up call you out on it.
If you try to pull for me instead of letting me dictate the flow of combat, I'll let you die and then call you out on it.
It's a good time and I know that leaving a group means I'll still find another group fairly fast, whereas the shit DPS will be stuck in queue for a while.
What about your healer brother man :(
i'm literally the exact same.
sucks that the reason we deal with a lot of shit is because other tanks let DPS get away with the things you mention, glad there's someone else out there putting them in their place.
A proper tank shouldn't just be hard to kill, but also provide a compelling reason why the enemy should focus on them. Such as having a slow build up pocket nuke or debilitating effects, or hard to ignore support effects that don't tread too much on the healer or other support branches.
LOL what
I've thought this for a while, and a few games here and there have agreed. Tanking is better if you design it for PvP first, and PvE second. The Warhammer MMO did a decent job of this, with the backward-facing mitigation cone, for just one example. "Initiator" tanks are another functional type: they're tanky because they want to get in and deploy a big CC effect without dying, which lets everyone else get into position and do their own thing, giving your team a huge momentum advantage.
Real players don't have aggro mechanics, and competitive players will always build to balance their survivability with their utility for maximum effectiveness.
The reason enemies focus on me as a tank is becasue I keep insulting their family members, including their pets, so they have a personal conflict with me and try to end me first.
Bro is stuck in his 2007 days and will literally spend more time shit-talking someone rather than just holding out the olive branch and offering to help. Having played since TBC, there's no truth to more folks being opposed to advice and help when they're genuinely new and in need of it. Ain't no way DPS has it easier. Awful take from Zack here.
I do think that by denying it Asmon kinda proved the video right.
The thing about tanking and healing is that people think it's easy. You might think you "only need" to do one thing, but everyone else makes that one thing harder. That one thing does not allow any mistake to be done, and thus not making any mistake is considered a matter of course. The expectations put on you are stellar high.
As a DPS, if you stay within 10, or even 20% from the top DPS, you're fine. You can make mistakes, nearly die a few times, maybe get resurrected if the game allows it, and no one will blame you so long as you keep these DPS high enough.
In fact, if your DPS are high enough, people will be fine with you blaming the tank or the healer for your mistakes. They'll even agree it's a matter of course that the consequences of your suicidal gameplay are the fault of the tanks or healers, whose one, "easy" task should be kept up.
Tanks and healers are roles that are too easy to blame, when no one will ever admit they are at fault. You couldn't see a DPS being accused of wiping the team by not killing the enemies fast enough. The tank has to adapt to the rhythm of the team, the healer has to follow the rhythm of the team, and the DPS don't really care about the rhythm of the team they dictate.
Tanking and healing is easy unless DPS is very bad all MMOs I have played 20+ years. Tanking is the easy once you learn fights all games.
- DPS is by far the easiest role. You don't have to care about anything except your rotation and maybe interrupting casts from time to time.
- Healer can be hard, but it's mostly dependent on what team mates you have. If you have good team mates, then healing is easy. Especially in WoW, where you just click frames to heal.
- Tank is hard. Because success rests entirely on your shoulders. You have to actually learn shit. You have to make decisions. You have to correct other people's mistakes, while micro managing aggro, kiting mobs around, and keeping an eye on what each enemy is doing in order to use your defensives properly. You also have to do good dps on top of that if you're not a scrub.
tank was hard in vanilla wow, but has become trivially easy in retail
you need route knowledge and it's your job to know what to pull and when, but that's it
the rotations are a joke, damage is irrelevant so the buttons you press don't matter. you pop a defensive - of which you generally have like 5 of in modern wow
dps on the other hand often have very complex rotations and if you screw up damage windows you blow your numbers for the whole run/fight and that can result in you getting kicked, or even not invited to a raid
That's just tank ego talking.
@@alexis1156 Nah, I've played all roles in all content in this game since 2007. Tank is the hardest to play. you'll notice that plenty of tanks are fucking trash and the reason for that is precisely because it's hard to play.
@@whataday443 Or maybe they're trash because they are just not good players?
The reason why you notice tank failures more is simply due to how many tanks you have in your group.
You only have 1 or 2, so if they fail, the mistake is immediately noticeable, instead for dps, if one fails it might not be a big deal, as long as he wasn't doing a crucial mechanic.
But that doesn't mean that tank is harder to play. It just means that the mistakes are more visible because there are less tanks.
Ultimately if you have enough dps you can pretty much ignore mechanics. Having high dps literally makes everything else easier.
Have good damage? The group doesn't have time to take damage, therefore the tank and healer work less, and if your tank is bad, and the healer too, as long as you have crazy damage you can somewhat mitigate that. If you have bad damage, but a good tank and healer, you're likely gonna complete the content, but certainly not in time, you're either gonna fail the key, or hit the enrage on a boss.
All these people talking about how dps have the least responsibility, easiest role etc, that's just your tank/healer ego talking. All roles are important, if you say otherwise, you either don't know what you are talking about, or you're just a bad player, and you're putting your experience as a bad player as the experience for everyone.
I was a tank in ESO and i was flabbergasted when i saw the dps queue length like i always waited like 30 seconds dps have to wait for like 10 minutes lmao
ikr? I had to wait for an hour one time when queuing up as a DPS, but as a Tank I don't even need to wait for a minute
@@burrzie8446 yea i guess not much people play tank bc its kinda boring in ESO except when you have a really good team
Tanking in the group finder is miserable. Even on the random vet finder, you frequently get newer and lower DPS players to aren't ready for the content, or selfish pvp players who take 45 minutes to clear the dungeon.
I'm sure any tank who has landed vet Scalecaller Peak as a random understands this 😂
Whenever I q in tank, I always get the shit dps that barely does over 50k damage and not position in front of the healer and behind the tank. I wouldn't mind waiting a while more to avoid that.
Lmfao Asmon using 1% of the gaming population to say healing is not hardest is hilarious. And his explanation proved it, he said healing is easy if you are with a premade good group. That's less than 5% of most players in games. Almost everyone is a pug or maybe a duo/trio, DPS is the easiest shit in the world though, cant believe he actually think dps is harder LOL.
Asmon illustrates exactly what is being discussed by expressing he doesn't like tanking because you have to know the encounter. Then goes onto describe the tank as bad because the group failed the task...
I think Lineage 2 did tanks right. It was fun to play since they had pets and with some skill and item preparation they could go hard on damage dealing too. The only thing that sucked about them was fighting them and getting hate when the boss just doesn't catch aggro and skills are on refresh.
Honestly, in PvE L2 tanks never felt like tanks. They felt more like a support character with taunt which didn't really work. In PvP though, now that felt like a TANK.
I love tanking. You always get into groups, no queues, you decide the pace. And I just love when we have a smooth run. I've been a tank since wrath, always on my DK and I'm pretty comfortable with it.
Anarchy Online had some classes that completely redefined the idea of tanking and off tanking in MMO's in SUCH A GOOD WAY.
Martial Artist class was able to dodge tank quite well, but the game was so unique with its implant systems and Attribute/Skill point system you could actually make a SUPER TANKY MMA and tank it like an Enforcer. WHILE ALSO being your own teams healer!
Enforcers as the generic high hp/high armor class pop big shields on 5-7 cool-downs for burst spikes.
Then you had Fixer tanks who literally just wore Grid Armor that made physical attacks miss like 95% of the time depending on what quality of suit you had. (Generally if you where a fixer with a suite it was a high quality because fixer toons where people who had deep pockets lol.)
There was also Metaphysicist class who could tank using his 3 pet system, CC ball, Healing Ball, and Demon tank.
Keepers where a new kind of DPS style tank that was just a better enforcer in my opinion (at least for pvp anyways). They had the same HP, better armor/sheilds and way more DPS.
Adventurers could tank in Cat Mode using HP implants as well as dodge bonus being in cat form or dragon form.
Agent tanks using the miniature form and the shroud of tourin cloak or using Enforcer engrams through agent spells to tank...
Engineers could tank with their 158 white scytheclaw bots if you twinked it low enough, never saw raids done with bots tanking though.
I think AO had such a great community because it was a game with insane item/stat/twinking depth. You could have a level 90 Agent beat a 220 soldier, or a 150 enforcer destroy anyone he felt like it because you spent 70 hours buffing and item boosting and gear swapping and implant stacking to be able to twink the best 2handed weapon in the game for him to use lol.
SHIT i totally forgot about Soldier tanking as well... using reflect sheilds... WTF man there where so many ways to tank in that game.
Edit #2 SHIT I forgot about SHADE TANKS, god damn there are SO many tanks in this game...
I guess it's because I've only ever played Tanks in League of Legends and never played a game like WoW ever but I've always loved being a Tank. The concept of taking a fuck ton of damage and never dying has it's obvious appeals and we you play Tanks that excel at either being a wall in front of your squishies or someone with offensive cc designed to pinpoint a target and have everyone dogpile on is super fun. Champs like Ornn and Sion fulfill both of these concepts and when you're playing them it's awesome when the team properly positions around you and you effective halt the enemies' advance because they can't get past you without losing half their health. It's fun and it's super fun when you're trying to get around the enemy tank because effectively, it forces you to think better on how you engage the enemy team. Wherever the tank is, that's where you're *never* going to attack from. Course that would require your team to be patient and control vision which is why Tank metas are so hated, it demands you to actually manage more concepts of the game instead of just going ARAM.
At the end of the day every role has their own responsibilities and will call out on those people not performing properly, although dps not as much. From what i see the dps has it easier since their measure of usefulness is separated from the tanks+healers. I've always been one to play around with all 3 roles to get a better understanding of how they operate in a specific game.
Edit: I love tanking in league, new world, and albion the most
In almost every game i play that requires a tank, the role starts off challenging but rewarding. As said game grows older, it inevitably becomes a role dumbed down by developers. Or the other inevitability happens: more players start playing the game and the quality of skill goes down. Or both happen simultaneously, which makes it unrewarding and miserable to play
True. Vanilla/BC tanking was fun, the rest was boring crap.
Yup and at one point you can't progress anymore because no matter how good of a tank you are it is entirely dependent on your team whether you win or not that is unless you are playing with friends cus with friends you can trust them and be confident whether you lose or win
I used to really enjoy tanking but I would play with my partner who was a healer and since we were both pretty good we could carry most dps. Also I guess the fact that if a group ended up being toxic we could just go find a new group really quickly was a big bonus.
Why find a new group? If you are a tank and healer you should have party lead, some moron hunter pulls a pack of mobs and whines when they go down? Boot the guy. In my experience people like that are doing terrible damage anyway so not a real loss especially when there's always more dps to join.
You can tell Asmon's experience with variety of MMOs and endgame content from him thinking all healers need to do is keep the team alive. Most endgame-level content in games (other than WOW I guess) requires the healer to manage mechanics, cleansing, placing DOTs, AND keeping your team alive. I have never seen someone as a DPS be compared to the highest parse when doing high-end content in my experiences. I HAVE seen DPS be properly diagnosed for not dishing out enough damage to clear mobs, or interrupting, but that is the base gameplay mechanics of a DPS on almost all RPGs. Being DPS shouldn't be only standing in one spot trying to deal the biggest possible number with the best gear, you should have to engage in the fight mechanics like everyone else too...
I remember back in 2006 leveling my first warrior in WoW to play with friends. I had re-rolled so many times that my re-spec cost got to be too much and so I leveled as a tank.
Was absolutely miserable because questing took forever as I did little damage (at least you could slowly aoe groups) so I sat outside of cities calling in global for my services to level in dungeons...
I've played all 3 and while I do think each one of the roles has its problems to face, responsibilities and pressure etc., this is what I feel:
-Tank has the most responsibility and pressure to set the pace of the instance, they usually need to know most if not all mechanics to avoid deaths and get criticized a lot.
-If it's not "the tank's fault" it's the healer's fault because they didn't heal you enough, they get shit on if a DPS dies standing in the fire(from said DPS) or if they run oom and other things like that.
-DPS get shit if their dps is underperforming or if they do stupid shit like standing in the fire.
There are some variables to this which depends on the content, some fights require DPS to do some mechanics, some fights require healers to be cautious of debuffs etc. that need to be cleansed, and yes sometimes the tank just needs to stand there and soak the damage and do absolutely nothing.
I think it depents on that game . Because i see a lot of games that dont want to play supporters or healers .
This is one of the most balanced takes on this discussion. And it's frankly far more true than people saying that dps have "no responsibilities" said by people who likely never did the role, or are just garbage at the game.
@@mx-gaming87 Personally I always loved all roles, but unless I play with friends I usually tend to go DPS to try and avoid toxicity and such in case I make any mistakes.
With friends I feel much more comfortable to play tank (which is my favorite) or healer :)
@@alexis1156 Thanks I appreciate that! And I would say it just usually depends on the encounter (or the game entirely if not talking about WoW), DPS can be in charge of many things and can have lots of responsibility in some fights.
So as I said in my original comment, sometimes the DPS needs to do lots of stuff while the tank "tanks and spanks" and sometimes the DPS can focus solely on damage while the tank shifts around etc. as required :D
I've played tank in both FF14 and WoW both in mythic and savage raiding. I don't see why people hate tanking. It's easier IMO than dps. Tank > DPS > healing, That is the order of easiest to hardest. Healing is by far the hardest aspect and most stressful role in the group. Tanks you have very little to do and mostly as long as you keep threat, tank swap, and stay alive tanking is easy peasy. I have not found tanking to be that hard at all. I actually helped our guild get two 1 shot kills when we did in HFC mythic when our back up tank was out. I stepped in to do Socrethar and Iskar and we one shot both that day. And we almost beat the next boss as well. The off tank was just a dumbass and couldn't do things correctly. I stepped in after talking shit the previous week and backed it up. It's not hard. People just make it hard.
the "tank" in MMOs stems from D&D, and the first MMO that ran the tank/dps/healer trinity was everquest. some argue that UO had it, but not exactly.
I just started tanking for the first time the knowledge you need to know feels more vast with routes etc making up for % in mythic plus, adjusting for extra packs pulled, its been a lot of anxiety but i understand that goes away the more and more you tank this will be my first time trying to achieve KSM instead of dps. looking forward to the ups and downs of this new journey and hope to be competent.
For PvE, Tanks and DPS don't have to deal with variables, as long as they study the boss patterns and their damage rotations they're good. Healers are all about analysis, they have to adapt and sometimes take split second decisions to the only variable of a game, the PLAYERS. Of course if you have a very consistant party it reduces chaos and healers work best in a non-chaotic environment. (On the other hand, in PvP, the assassin class thrive in chaos and disruption)
Depending of the game of course, I think DPS are usually the most demanding mechanical intensive class and tank is the easiest role but also the most dependant role by far.
I also understand that different games have different nuances about the holy trinity. Great video! 🙂
"Tank is the easiest role in the game"
...Except they're the ones who need to know the fight best, and they control positioning, and they dictate the pace of the run, and the flow of combat, and are the de facto raid leader
If tank was so easy, everyone would want to do it. But it's not the most popular role. It's the _least_ popular.
"If you know what you're doing it's easy" - asmog
Tanks in most MMOs are knowledge and positioning dependent they have simple rotations but the attention required is much higher than DPS.
Tanks may be easy mechanically but the expectations are pretty high. I've never seen DPS compared to anyone, they only get shit on when they pull what the tank didn't tell them to pull
I think tank and support the harder ones in general. You have to know all the mechanics and you are always very dependent on your party.
My first RFK was with a godly tank back in BC. I already ran several dungeons as a healer before then and I could tell the difference. The tank was just a random dude and I warned him that I’m not really experienced, so he didn’t do any crazy pulls and actually gave me some valuable advice on gearing.
I believe we ran through the dungeon without any wipes, not a single mob touched me, though I had to sacrifice some DPS who couldn’t follow the kill order.
Later playing as a DPS myself I always remembered that if you pull aggro, it’s not a healer’s priority to save your ass before tank.
Yet the dmg dealer will flame you for not healing him.
One reason the Warden was so popular in LOTRO . Awesome dmg but amazing survivability . Can tank and DPS as well as solo PVE . One of the most effective Tanks I have seen in any RPG MMO.
if im playing alone, i choose a dps class
if i play with friends, i choose a healer or a tank. (healer is more fun than the other two.)
Healer: If HP
Tanks in Albion Online are super popular and a massive role in PvP, it's hella fun to play and super rewarding.
You may not remember this but you've once commentated a match where I killed the 2 members of a bombsquad with my demon armor and resulted in our guild's comeback. I'm not playing Albion anymore but that was the coolest thing I've ever done in that game
@@tfk2328 And that right there is why Albion's PvP stands out the most to me, even in the biggest of battles, a defensive play from a tank turned the tides of the battle and you came out victorious. Love it. Btw, in early Jan there will be a major update for Territories and the Guild Season if you ever wanna come back and check it out 👍
I was a tank in FFXI for about 10 years over multiple jobs that all play in a different style, and I loved every one of them. Tanking was always a ton of fun, although I was in a end game group for a lot of that time, so I guess my time was skewed a bit.
Tanking in FF 11 is one of the funnest tanking experiances. You can really show off your skill.
When I play multiplayer games I play the 4th role. Support and utility.
Which is a multiplier for the rest of the group. As well as the possibility to step in into other roles temporarily.
Hense why I play Druid. Usually end up saving my group multiple times and Drastically increasing group speed and efficience.
Healers "All you have to do is make sure other people dont die."
Brother, there are a lot of people out there that dont make that a simple job.
Dude, as a tank main, I tell all my healers be a white mage if I don't listen to you don't heal me
I love tanking so much, the idea of just taking all the hits and shrugging it off is super enjoyable for me. My only struggle is I'm really not a leader so that makes it pretty hard for me.
I would say positioning as a tank is the most important one and the one that shows who's good at tanking, as dps or healer you can appreciate or realize how much better a run can go in any game if the positioning of the tank is good on bosses or mobs-routes, pack grabbing
Miss having a pocket tank. Was always nice.
As a guy who loves playing tanks, I see why people don't.
-No big number damage
-Harder to solo due to lack of damage
-Get all the blame for not holding aggro if people die even if it's not your fault
I've been maining Healer and alting DPS _(and Tanking low to mid keys)_ since Legion...mostly played DPS before that. Been doing higher keys _(up to 20~)_ as a tank in DF. I exclusively play PuG groups.
And tbh, I find it way more common that DPS players who are underperforming are getting shat on in PuGs. Usually when a Tank/Healer is below par, people just request smaller pulls _(or leave if their competence is so low that you get stuck obviously)._
Also the only time I've received praise in several different groups within the span of a week or two was while pushing myself to tank higher keys...and all I really did was plan or find a route and practiced using all the utility my spec had _(interrupts, stops, movement, etc)_ and tried my best to not pull more than the group could handle lmao...
...that's a pretty low bar compared to what you need to do for anyone in a PuG to really notice and give your praise/compliments as a DPS/Healer.
...also the only time I can remember getting several people being really nasty towards me in a PuG was when I joined my first low key _(I think it was a +4)_ as a Guardian in Legion and was completely overwhelmed by it haha _(I had only played Druid as Balance in MoP and Resto in WoD/Legion before this, just did some WQs and maybe a HC dungeon or two as Guardian. And had only really tanked dungeons in general while leveling on other classes)._
So while they were being unnecessarily nasty about it, I wouldn't say that I didn't deserve some shit for not practicing in appropriate content first.
To be clear, I'm pretty sure I had decent gear _(except no tanking/melee DPS trinkets)_ from playing Resto...unless they hadn't introduced multi main stat gear already in Legion(maybe that came in BfA?)...but tbf even dog gear on that keylevel should be fine...
It was purely me just getting overwhelmed due to not knowing how to tank in general, not knowing how to tank the particular dungeon and not knowing how to either DPS as a Guardian nor what def buttons to press and when...on top of not having played a melee spec, beyond leveling alts for fun/mount farming, since Enha Shammy in WotLK ^^
Tanks suffer the most from shit dps and healers, managing aggro (not so much in todays gaming) and mechanics. Only other tanks aknowledge what you do because they know.
3:30 Mostly, but not always true. Did Castrum Meridianum (FF14) a few weeks ago, tank was afk-kicked and then the healer bailed just before 2nd boss. Got a new healer and we finished the dungeon without a tank.
I refuse to do raids. I’m a healer, and people are *AWFUL* to me. I’ve dealt with people so toxic and disgusting that raid teams DISBANDED ENTIRELY rather than deal with that person a second longer. If you are anything other than complacent, you have my respect. If you are a glass cannon DPS, please be patient and understand everyone playing role is trying to do our best at said role that the vast majority of people don’t want to play. In DC Universe Online, DPS players are so abundant that they adjusted the game for scenarios where groups with near or entirely DPS players got benefits to make up for lacking Control, Healer, and/or Tank players. A good raid to me isn’t victory, it’s when I’m not getting my head ripped off and even then I’m stressed the whole time.
Asmongold: “I don’t think tank is the most hated class.”
*proceeds to show everyone why tank is the most hated class*
It's amazing how he didn't pick up on it. He's normally pretty good at separating his opinions from stuff, but this one is *way* off.
I don't hate tanking. I'm just not doing it cause of my good old introverted social anxiety roots.
The tank is the wierdo standing right in front of the mobs that everyone is looking at, so basically almost always in the center of everyone's attention.
This stage belongs to the indifferent or extroverts. 😏 Especially after a wipe.
Tanking is the introvert role. You just take aggro and let everyone else dance around controlling the run. You just keep the healers alive and mock the dps players for being stupid.
@@Dead_Goat A dude once told me that he does not feel anyone's glances on him as a tank but as a DPS he would.
Cause of the DPS meter addon. 😏
So funny to think people associate the toughest roll only with how much people might see them as embarassing.
@@Dead_Goat tank controls the run.
As someone who healed all the way through naxx classic. The amount of time you have to put into being a tank definitely seemed like a huge investment and seemed pretty daunting especially in the raids. I’m gonna be tanking hard core so wish me luck lol
The main reason most players go DPS is because they want to be the MVP at the end of the match and say they are the best on the team because they had 20 kills and the tank had 15. I feel a tank is doing his job in a moba or PvP game if he ends with like 35 assists, no kills and no-one on your team died. That is far more MVP than a dude with 20 kills and 5 deaths.
Being a tank (atleast in elder scrolls online) seems easy to me .3. Just taunt the enemy. Debuff them best you can or buff your allies or both, and just sit there and be a punching bag. Until your effects wear off
In ff14, tanking is by far the easiest role there is, losing aggro is impossible, very easy rotations so all you gotta do is press mitigations at the right time.
Healing is easy too, but when teammates play bad, your role becomes much harder, tank doesn't care, for them it's just annoying the run will last longer, but it barely affects you at all.
why do people say this?
Any mechanics a dps does, a tank needs to do it as well.
rotation + agro ( when they are more mobs) + cc one shot skills. Ussualy is in charge of markings areas/mobs for target, and need to do extra mechanics like tank switching.
You might argue that dps has a more complicated rotation but they don't really. They just run after the tank and stay out of red areas.
Maybe one dps might have it harder if they want to help the tank to mark targets, but most people don't want to help the tank at all
healer might be the easiest maybe, it really depends on how good is the party and if healer needs to dps as well.
@@acetheconqueror
Tanks need to do the mechanics as well?
That’s only true in savage and above.
I just faced tanked mechanics and kept dpsing.
Unless it gives me damage down. Remember young padowan
Stand in the fire
To dps higher
@@acetheconqueror Show me which tank rotation is even half as intense as black mage rotation, or ninja, even monk, sam and drg to play good (not overcapping on resources, doing positionals hitting right cd's when they're ready).
I've played all 3 roles in ff14, tank is by FAR the easiest role in that game, healer second easiest and most dps last, only outlier is summoner right now which is just npc level of braindead.
i suspect the reason why ppl dislike tanking & healer roles is cuz it doesn't give as big a dopamine hit as seeing big number's pop off, and let's be honest, dpsing is in most cases for lack of better word "braindead" jobs, no need to care about mechanics, just need to see big numbers pop up, that said, not all dps jobs are braindead as "mash x skill till enemy is dead" but alot are
Problem with tanking is satisfaction of a player. A player is forcing themselves to play out of their zone and is not satisfied with the tank classes
I love being a Tank main mostly because that's how I get my ego trip of being the one dude standing toe to toe with the big monster.
However, I try to do my best to get the pacing right and cooperate with my healer. Nothing is more sacred than the relationship between Tanks and Healers
When raid groups get bigger it gets really impossible to track individual performance. It's not too hard for a tank to position the boss correctly, so it's expected. But only himself and his healer can assess each other performance. Everybody else can rely only on damage meters.
Typical pug player
Honestly can't really agree there asmon. I've tried all 3 roles fairly extensively and I'd have to say that by FAR healers have the easiest role. In fact it's gotten so easy these days that healers are EXPECTED to put out decent dps in addition to all their healing. Wouldn't be room for that if the actual JOB of a healer wasn't piss easy. And in my experience people generally fellate healers pretty heavily. If the Tank dies it's the tank's fault doesn't matter if the healer didn't heal the tank once over 10 seconds of taking dmg that's STILL the tanks fault. Not gonna say there's not garbage tanks but there's garbage healers too. And the tank usually gets the blame.
I guess It depends on a game, I was main holy priest in whole TBC classic and must say the healing was hard, maintaining mana troughtout fight was art form. But in Wotlk I ve dropped the game in middle of Naxx phase, I was bored out of my mind, 99logs with disco DPS tho...
@@eldenarmortem975 Healing was very different in classic/tbc. I'd agree it was a more difficult role then too. As a general rule of thumb that can NOT be applied to every situation. assuming that other people are playing at least competantly. If people other than the tank dies .. It's probably the tanks fault. But if the tank dies and he's playing okay and not horrendously undergeared. It's probably the healer's fault.
No one ever thanks a tank for doing his job well, because that's the baseline standard. So you can only ever do worse than expected. Add on to the fact if you roll a new tank on a server that's been around, you'll get top notch DPS that act like every mob is Arthas himself and pull aggro constantly. The only bonus to being a tank is quick queues and some weight to throw around when a DPS is really being stupid.
As a tank, the bar to be good is low. Most people never reach that bar.
I loved tanking and still love tanking. My biggest problem is that when a tank is geared you now must be present all the time. Unlike every other role tanks are geared first and if they miss a raid you screwed everyone over.
The difficulty of DPS is the most static and does not depends heavily on the performance of other roles in the team. For example, healer is the hardest role if the party is full of braindead zombies, but is the easiest role if everyone knows what they're doing. This does not apply to a PVP game obviously.
Ive maintanked in casual guilds and in raiding guilds ( lets exclude dungeons for now ). I really liked tanking in casual guilds, there is no pressure we all had fun and i never felt the initial blame went to me. Raiding guilds on the other hand i am the first line in the blame game, the pressure is high and i didnt like it one bit.
Now come the dungeon part.. i hold a piece of power.. people complain about the pace of the dungeon however i can just say : Dont like it ? Goodluck finding another tank and 85% of the time that was the end of it. I healed in classic and ive seen the tank role... and now with the knowledge of both of those roles im going dps. I dont like the pressure, people are rude and impatient. Its time to pass the torch.
But as a tank, you hold the ability to fuck everyone's day whenever you want.
"The Hardest role is DPS because you're always graded against the very best players of that encounter"
I feel so seen. Nearly two decades of playing as a DPS.
Here's the thing, too: even if nobody else in the party or raid is judging your dps...the dps themselves are judging themselves.
I literally quit WoW Raiding because my damage output on Denathrius was so freaking bad. I did literally half the damage of everyone else. I actively felt like I was dragging the raid down and I was also not having fun anymore. When I informed my raid lead that I was quitting, he tried to convince me to stay. I appreciate that he sees me as an important raid member because I'm consistent and good at boss mechanics. However, I found it hard to forgive myself to both doing bad damage and dreading raid night.
I won't get into the reasons why my damage was so bad. It's complicated but covenants being tied to power is partially to blame. In essence, in order to fix my damage output, I would have to pick a Class/Spec and Covenant combo that I don't enjoy and re-grind from the ground up. I would have to have EVEN LESS fun in order to push my numbers from bottom of the barrel to middle of the pack. Just...no. I quit.
I'm having a lot of fun in a different critically acclaimed MMO. A number of my WoW raiding group also joined me after a while, so it's been fun! Due to party makeup dynamics, I've jumped to being the off-tank. I still hold caster DPS as a core part of my MMO identity but I've always had an off-tanking streak, so this works fine.
Oh my god is the difference in difficulty extremely striking. If you want to play a relaxing role, it's off-tank. Half the time, they have absolutely no responsibility other than maybe a tank swap. They can be bad at mechanics because they can fail it 2-3 times and hardly feel the effects. They have maybe 1-2 really important mechanics to do but otherwise just there to hit the boss. I still try my best to provide the party with utility but it's not expected of me.
In ff14 i hated playing tank cause unless the healer was someone i know, the more a chance ill get a lazy toxic healer that ends up ruining the experience. Had a section of the dungeon that had tank buster adds after the second boss, healer just used nothing but regen. Wiped multiple times, they ended up dropping after the group told the healer to properly heal. People like that are why i can't tank, its why i can't do tanking, most randos tend to be horrible people half the time.
Thats why i started tanking as a warrior. I could pretty much solo most of the dungeon bosses in endwalker. Sometimes even keep the dps alive if healer died mid fight :D
I love tanking but often its a difficult role to get into compared to other roles despite often times being the easiest overall. DPS and Healing are oftenly more reactive roles, where tanks often have to take a proactive role and know mechanics or routes ahead of time.. In a new game/patch/xpac this is less of an issue but older content other players expect you as a tank to know a lot of things ahead of time so that they can just follow behind. Mostly an issue is pugs but you get the idea. New players make mistakes and get flamed then they switch off to likely never return.
I love playing healer, I hate playing tank because it feels like if you stop for even a second you have half the DPS babies still running ahead like you never stopped...
The funny thing is tanks skill ceiling drops the more skilled and powerful the healers. The healers skill ceiling drops the more aware the dps and better the tank. Dps starts with their ceiling literally on the ground and gets raised the better their team is