No lie it’s just the amount of people who just want to win. Like honestly the amount of people I came across recently who tell me that playing for fun isn’t a good idea is surprising to me and I’d always say, bro this is casual
I’d add to this by saying the rise of esports has created a new type of game that is ONLY fun if you win. Thus creating these players you’re talking about They forget why they want to win, and act like having fun is pointless. All while putting all that effort into mastering the meta so they can have their own fun Now because we have games that are only fun when you win, we have a culture in gaming where winning = fun. Even in games where you can’t “win,” like Skyrim or Farming Sim
whats really annoying about meta abusers is that typically i tend to have fun with what would be the next meta because i tend to discover them early on, but then people start using the same shit so it feels like theyre copying me but they arent because they usually find it on some youtube guide and not on their own. gets annoying when everyone is running the same shit as you and then proceed to do better than you because theyre cracked out on adderall and energy drinks
This is exactly what I've been thinking for a few years now. I went through my META phase. I've played csgo/cs2, overwatch, rainbow 6 and apex. But now I have got to the point that it just isnt fun anymore. Ive gotten into the Souls games PVP again, Devil Daggers, V rising, For the King 2 and SCP Secret Lab are some of my favorite games at the moment. They are such a breath of fresh air and I couldn't recommend them enough I actually found you through your V rising videos and I've found myself agreeing with you a lot
oh that's sick man, yeah V rising is great, thing i really love about V rising is more often then not is the person who plays better wins the fight, there are a couple jewels and things that can make for some pretty OP builds that are much easier to play than others, but if you are good and know how to fight them, you can win any fight by outplaying your opponent, makes for some really fun and interesting fights
I've always thought a neat way games could implement a counter to 'meta play' is by having a stats board scanning for the weapons most used by a community over the course of a week. Each week it'll find the most used weapon and nerf it by reducing damage, accuracy, firing speed, etc. Keep this on a rotation where 3-4 weapons every week over the course of a month are in the cycle of 'nerfed' and eventually will fall off. If a weapon is still heavily utilized, the downsides will keep increasing until its no longer viable against something else. A system like this would help undermine metas because now a strategy that worked one week might not work again for a month or so but will eventually be usable again. It would also give more reason for players to try new things instead of outright ditching everything by the wayside.
well that wouldn’t work, because that doesn’t make the game more fun, it just makes the game feel weaker. It could be cool for the first couple of months and then everything would feel like pool noodles… there IS no counter to metaplay, it’s simply people wanting to find the most efficient tactics available, the way you “counter” this is making the meta more fun, like in DOTA.
The reason why dead by daylights chaos shuffle and 2v8 temporary game modes were (still are in 2v8s case) is because they disabled perks and add ons. So no meta builds/abuses were possible and everybody just had fun in the game. Chaos shuffle didnt disable perks, it just assigned random ones to every player, no one could go and just pick all the "meta" perks.
You know what bro, this is very true. I always attributed the praise of games when they were new to the dilusion created by nostalgia and that sort, but the fact that the meta of the game is not in place yet makes so much sense to why we feel this way. Good video 👍
Banger video! I've always found myself staying away from meta picks in games, even if a hero or weapon(or whatever game it is) that I like become too meta I move away from it, because it just sucks the fun out of that thing. It starts feeling like that OP thing is doing the work instead of me, and for me that is just not fun. It's fun succeeding as the underdog.
I know this is sort of a random example because it's a mobile game, but i hate what is happening in Brawl Stars right now. All these youtubers pumping out their tier lists every week and what do you know, the brawlers at the top are gonna show up in EVERY SINGLE RANKED MATCH. It's sort of tradition at this point that the bottom tiers that get hardcountered by everyone are the most fun.
One issue with the Finals is that there are so little options to choose from to begin with at the moment. In games like Overwatch or Apex there are a lot more champions. Either way the meta will be there because in the end most people who play ranked modes want to win and be competitive. If something sucks too much and they can't win with it they won't play it or if something is op and they're dominating with it then they'll play it. I think it's just the duty of developers to make changes often to shift the meta to somewhere else and experiment with new stuff to keep the playerbase alive.
Yeah 100% games design and balance has an impact on these things, games like overwatch with so many diverse characters are impossible to balance, so there will always be OP heroes. but if you look at TF2 where no one plays competitively anymore and doesn't care about any sort of meta, it's just play and have fun and even the people that are trying are more just using skill expression to have fun in a stylish way, that game is also not very toxic at all I noticed when playing, probably just due to the general mindset of players on there
the Finals is just terribly balanced and has some serious design flaws. meta will always exist, but it's exacerbated in that game because there are some gadgets/weapons/specs that are quite literally useless to the extent that using them will be an active detriment to your team & will likely not be having fun playing the game anyway, so people default to the meta since it works & it's fun.
I have found my ppl , I actively go against the meta just cause. And ive always been like this when i was younger playing cod i always went for the under used ARs “cuz they need love too” is what i used to say but now i say fuck the meta 😂
yeah i was the same when i was younger, i remember black ops 1 had so many guns (especially) SMGs that rarely got used, even though i mostly sniped i used to use them when ever i reg gunned
It’s more of the developers job to offer more VIABLE options rather than the players to just “play for fun”. It’s not fun to eat ass and die to more meta builds when you’re using off meta weapons/heroes/whatever. Take the finals for example, if your aim is insane but you prefer sniping, playing a long range sniper build is viable but if u wanna go aggressive close range the pistol is just better. It’s more fun to use the pistol and kill people than use the shitty mp5 and die to heavies, hence it’s meta. I used to play siege a lot and used this character called buck who has a good gun and kit but once more people used him, the devs nerfed him for being “overpicked”. It’s more fun to play him cuz he’s good and nerfing him only made the game less fun. The devs should have buffed other characters to make them more viable and fun not the other way around
That siege situation sounds similar to what they did at start of apex, nerfed wraith because she had high pick and win rate, but it was because she allowed good players to play super aggressive and she had the smallest hitbox, there was nothing really wrong with her though, she just attracted higher skill players
Playing especially any game that can be treated as a competitive one has everyone eventually forgetting that they want to play those kinds of games for fun, i like improving that's why i'm glued to shooters and fighting games, but it's just a by-product of playing a game more and more, using the stuff i find fun instead of looking for strong traits that gives the highest advantage for you or whatever. Games havent gotten that bad, it's communities treating everything way too seriously. My only guess is that people know they're at least somewhat decent at a type of game, so they want to keep that title and pedestal they put themselves on, and if they dont feel that way, others will make sure to vocalize their frustrations. Which makes the only fun you can have at face value being winning. To be fair allot of games are more and more team driven so i think they can also be part of the blame there.
Great video! Your stuff is always very well put together and You’re such a breath of fresh air from all the streamers telling people to use the fcar. I think the algorithm will find you any day now
the finals fun is ruined thanks to the apex sweaty tryhards migrating from their dead game over to the finals and they ruining it like how they ruined apex they taking the fun out of the game the same way they did to apex legends
I loathe the new age meta gamers. They don't play to improve and reward themselves from their progress. They rather find the easiest and quickest way to exploit. So they become meta rats. Thwy refuse to handle adversity and work at something to be good at.
6:33 The only way to stop the meta is content creators or community posters to stop giving players the ability to abuse certain items or character cause you trying to help people to have fun you doing the opposite cause sooner than later players will use the same thing to the point it's getting boring and suck all the fun out of it make guides on how to make players have fun not trying to give players a thing to abuse.
I started being a revolver chad in the finals because its fun af, hitting nasty flick headshots with it gives me the same vibes as using the deagle in cs. However most of my games tonight were against cloak + stun + db/mp5 lights (had 1 game with 4 of them and gotta say it was one of my worst experiences ever being stunned 2-3x in a row over and over), or nuke heavies with lewis and full shields. It was so sweaty when all I wanted to do was vibe on quick cash, im not even playing ranked.
Great video mate. We're in the age of information and we are really not mindful about how we use that information. It's my opinion that If you're forcing yourself to conform a boring meta, it should be because you are competing at the highest level, or are so bad that you can't play the game any other way. (but the reality for most is "my streamer does it") I find myself getting enjoyment in every game I play by developing a fun, stylistic, off meta play style, even if it can be frustrating dying to boring, easy mode meta slaves. It's worth it to have your own identify and a goal other than "win" or "higher numbers" Anyway, a great topic to make a video on. Sadly, people will never change and making the meta fun is a challenging job the devs have to do right.
This is why i ignore almost every single pvp game out there and have started enjoying solo and pve games. I still do play overwatch sometimes though. But i think a game that mostly suffers from meta slaves is yugioh duel links, master duel and even OCG. Whats the point of having zillions of cards only to be completely ignored because the meta exists…..
I just stopped playing online games altogether because of this meta shit. Nevermind the cheaters and toxicity in them. I forgot how fun and rewarding it is to just turn on a single player game and explore it without guides or walkthroughs is.
i made that comment on the other vid after being bummed about being the reason my team lost most of our games. i wish movement sniper would be better a lot of people associate winning with fun, and i ended up mostly playing revolver med with friends who are trying to win. revolver is still super fun, admittedly less than sniper, but it makes the whole experience more enjoyable cause i can actually play the objective and am not the reason my friends lose i think there's a lot to talk about relative to the job of devs who balance the game. they should encourage the most fun way of playing by making it a seriously viable strategy. its the reason im a huge ssbm fan (puff hater), hitscan fan, aim assist hater, etc... im a fan of games that reward the player for being good and im a fan of players who are sick despite the game encouraging them to be lame. its why i like ur content i think its also why ppl are looking for a new fps. one that doesnt have perma invis and cheesy abilites. kinda like cs and quake but faster and newer/more polished, respectively
Yeah man completely agree, if the "meta" of a game is just to get good, it's a much more fun and rewarding experience, games like quake are a great example like you said, in those games the better player wins, Devs are trying to cater to casuals so much to make more money these days (hence the super overturned aim assist), unfortunately since gaming has become very mainstream Its not likely a triple A dev team will release a really high skill shooter any time soon
I play exclusively mele wepons in the finals. I totally agree with everything in this vid. People are far more interested in winning than having a good time and its killing gaming.
I think the dagger is a cool idea, I wish the backstab was a bit faster though. I used it a bit, but I really just wanted to bhop past people and backstab as I went past, like spy in TF2. But the wind up was just too slow.
@@NineLives9 As they said, it’s a backronym. A backronym is an acronym people came up with for the term long after the term was popularized. The term “meta” comes from “meta gaming”. Meta means “referring to itself” so when talking about meta gaming you are talking about the game itself. So people have been using the term “meta” to describe the most effective strats long before anyone came up with the acronym you used in the video-it’s not a different meaning or usage, it’s just a backronym someone came up with to describe what the word already meant.
I always understood meta being in ranked/PVP games, but one thing that really frustrates me is meta in PVE games. Don't starve together, is one of my favorite games but I have to avoid the community because, it is full of people complaining certain chracters are over/underpowered. Every character can beat the game, the real issue should be, is the chracter fun? Not how quickly can they kill a boss.
what if devs made changes to the game but didn't give exact information about gameplay patches? leaving the players to once again discover how the game now operates then to have it changed again when players start getting too comfortable (ideally for non-competitive games)
yeah i just think to how when there's a new patch my friends and i read through and see who was buffed or nerfed to then switch how we're playing the game, now if we didn't know what the changes were there would be less of instantly dropping a weapon or character just to play something that was "buffed"@@NineLives9
I find myself looking at guides a lot. It was really bad when I played my first souls game, Elden Ring. Luckily the builds I was trying out were not OP but did guide me into a direction of what could be done in the game. Sadly I got stuck at looking at other people's builds and didn't experiment on my own because I found them way less effective. I hope you blow up soon! :D
What I’ve always done in my 5-6k hours in very competitive fps games is play 1/2 meta. Like in the finals (even in my diamond ranked games) I play meta util and usually use a revolver and sometimes throw a nade launcher game in there for fun. I very rarely play something that is objectively “bad” but I do try and mix it up sometimes to keep myself from getting bored.
Yeah, that's a good way to go about it, the revolver is a good weapon and it's super fun to use, a lot harder than fcar or akm and probably less effective overall, but much more rewarding in my opinion
On top of META, OP tactics hurt a game in more ways than I think that people realize. With the prevalence of competitive modes and mmr (and its variants) OP tactics can quickly slingshot players of all skill levels throughout a rank system. Highly skilled players who refuse to play OP/META or play a specific niche strategy can still get steamrolled by a much less skilled player who is crutching off of the OP META. This causes mayhem in the ranked system even long after an OP META has been changed since all of the players affected by it now need to play more games in the wrong rank in order to readjust. I like to play splatoon 3's salmon run PvE mode which has a lax ranking system and will give players random weapons from a preset pool that changes about once a day. However, for fun, the game will have certain weapon rotations that are intentionally OP and will skyrocket many players' rank. While myself and many players love to play the game during this time the aftermath of players' rank slingshot can be felt for WEEKS afterwards with significantly worse teammates than before. I know that losing rank in salmon run can happen much more quickly compared to most other competitive ranked systems but that means that for games which take longer to readjust ranks might see the consequences of an OP META for months or years.
Damn dude. First off, didn't know the actual meaning of META so thanks. And I didn't know someone else related to my experience of gaming. I usually start with a class or weapon I find fun, but when we're losing I want to win so I feel the need to switch to easier/META weapons and yeah it can suck out the fun. Great thoughts on gaming man.
Yeah dude, it's honestly an easy trap to get caught in, Ive had times on apex in the past where I'm just like "fuck it" I'll show them just how broken this meta is an abuse it myself haha, but no one really wins, everyone just stuck playing the same boring shit
@@NineLives9 well you have to wait i am playing ghost runner there is no such thing like meta in this game .but this game is very fun and fast you should give it a try .
I mean it's basically impossible to have any game with different weapons and classes completely balanced, but they could get it close, I would say the finals isn't terribly unbalanced or anything it's actually pretty good compared to alot of other games, but things like invis and stun gun are really just inherently shit unenjoyable things to have in a shooter game
Meta is just a reflection of general human behaviour. It kind of irks me when people conflate the most popular tactic, with the most effective, because far too often they are not one and the same. I've seen too many times where the most effective/strongest thing is just ignored by the entire player base for months or years, because the extent of a player base's problem solving capabilities is to copy what they died to the most. Very little thought is given to actually countering the meta. Their thoughts often fail to extend beyond copy or beg the developers for a nerf. 'Meta' doesn't ruin games, it's gamers approach to gaming that ruins it. Gamers often fail to realise that for something they supposedly love, they have a very poor mental approach to it! But again this is just a reflection of general human behaviour. If you can, I hope you delve deeper into this, as there is so much more to be explored...
"It kind of irks me when people conflate the most popular tactic, with the most effective, because far too often they are not one and the same." That's so hilarious and true. The way CSGO players shat on the SG as inferior to the AK because "the pros only play AK"; but the even pros ignoring a superior choice (I don't even know why) for years, only to one day they realize it's superior after all and everyone starts using it... One of the most insightful moments of meta in recent time.
Yeah I know, that's why I specified if you are playing it and don't find it fun, it's a game people are welcome to play however they like, but I think a lot of people aren't really playing how they would like, but how they have basically been told to
I dont think meta inherently ruins games The players do we forget that we game to have fun Now the concept of Fun varies from.person to person Like i enjoy the FCar and Akm a lot but does that make me a meta slave? When you said you make guides for fun Why can we not apply the same reason to other who make guides as well who is to say that they dont find the op weapons fun? It feel like this is a matter of perspective Idk just food for thought
Yeah I agree, I was specific to address those who are playing the meta but find it boring, one of my favourite overwatch heroes is mccree, I would play him whether he was underpowered or overpowered at the time, I just liked the character no matter what. But it's just people who are all playing same weapon or character then it gets nerfed and 90% of the people that were using it move on to the next meta thing
Overcompetitiveness ruins games. The other day I was on a discord server trying to find people to play, and I couldn't get a single person that didn't exclusively want to play Ranked and just ranked. Nothing but ranked. When asked why, they'd mostly respond that it's the only thing that's any fun because it gives them a purpose to play. Playing for fun just isn't a thing anymore, it seems. Trying out wacky strats or meme builds just doesn't compute for most people. Playing a casual game makes no sense because they're "wasting time" they could've used to raise their rank. It's a sad situation altogether.
in the long run playing meta does cause burnout. But in the short term it boosts my winrate and winning is fun for me. IM always going to be competitive at fps games its how I have fun. but i dont like hard following metas i like creating them for me its goo gun and c4 barrels lmao rn.
In destiny 2 pvp this problem is magnified by a thousand because all the pvp players only use what’s the best at the time no matter what because pvp players in that game only use what youtubers make videos about(I could type for an hour about all the stupid ass dogshit that I’ve played through in that game) I stopped playing destiny 2 entirely because all people would use right now is bubble or well with immortal and a sniper or immortal and a shotgun
I played destiny 2 once for a couple hours (stopped cause I wasn't really a fan) but my mate who had played said it was quite meta driven and I did notice people using a lot of the same shit every game, I had some weak as fuck fun you start with too, was pretty horrible cause I had never done the pve haha
Metas absolutely suck out the fun and ruin games. Unless devs actively update the game regularly and shake up the meta i feel like most games die due to it.
No lie it’s just the amount of people who just want to win. Like honestly the amount of people I came across recently who tell me that playing for fun isn’t a good idea is surprising to me and I’d always say, bro this is casual
I’d add to this by saying the rise of esports has created a new type of game that is ONLY fun if you win. Thus creating these players you’re talking about
They forget why they want to win, and act like having fun is pointless. All while putting all that effort into mastering the meta so they can have their own fun
Now because we have games that are only fun when you win, we have a culture in gaming where winning = fun. Even in games where you can’t “win,” like Skyrim or Farming Sim
whats really annoying about meta abusers is that typically i tend to have fun with what would be the next meta because i tend to discover them early on, but then people start using the same shit so it feels like theyre copying me but they arent because they usually find it on some youtube guide and not on their own. gets annoying when everyone is running the same shit as you and then proceed to do better than you because theyre cracked out on adderall and energy drinks
This is exactly what I've been thinking for a few years now. I went through my META phase. I've played csgo/cs2, overwatch, rainbow 6 and apex. But now I have got to the point that it just isnt fun anymore. Ive gotten into the Souls games PVP again, Devil Daggers, V rising, For the King 2 and SCP Secret Lab are some of my favorite games at the moment. They are such a breath of fresh air and I couldn't recommend them enough
I actually found you through your V rising videos and I've found myself agreeing with you a lot
oh that's sick man, yeah V rising is great, thing i really love about V rising is more often then not is the person who plays better wins the fight, there are a couple jewels and things that can make for some pretty OP builds that are much easier to play than others, but if you are good and know how to fight them, you can win any fight by outplaying your opponent, makes for some really fun and interesting fights
I really want to try v rising pvp but at the moment Im through my first pve run of the game and I dont have much time to commit @@NineLives9
I've always thought a neat way games could implement a counter to 'meta play' is by having a stats board scanning for the weapons most used by a community over the course of a week. Each week it'll find the most used weapon and nerf it by reducing damage, accuracy, firing speed, etc. Keep this on a rotation where 3-4 weapons every week over the course of a month are in the cycle of 'nerfed' and eventually will fall off. If a weapon is still heavily utilized, the downsides will keep increasing until its no longer viable against something else.
A system like this would help undermine metas because now a strategy that worked one week might not work again for a month or so but will eventually be usable again. It would also give more reason for players to try new things instead of outright ditching everything by the wayside.
well that wouldn’t work, because that doesn’t make the game more fun, it just makes the game feel weaker. It could be cool for the first couple of months and then everything would feel like pool noodles… there IS no counter to metaplay, it’s simply people wanting to find the most efficient tactics available, the way you “counter” this is making the meta more fun, like in DOTA.
Bro your voice is so relaxing and informative all the meanwhile your just hitting some absolute clip bangers in the background lmao good stuff.
Haha cheers dude, appreciate it
I always try to play with the harder weapons because I find the kills you get from them are more enjoyable than META weapons
The reason why dead by daylights chaos shuffle and 2v8 temporary game modes were (still are in 2v8s case) is because they disabled perks and add ons. So no meta builds/abuses were possible and everybody just had fun in the game.
Chaos shuffle didnt disable perks, it just assigned random ones to every player, no one could go and just pick all the "meta" perks.
You know what bro, this is very true. I always attributed the praise of games when they were new to the dilusion created by nostalgia and that sort, but the fact that the meta of the game is not in place yet makes so much sense to why we feel this way. Good video 👍
Banger video! I've always found myself staying away from meta picks in games, even if a hero or weapon(or whatever game it is) that I like become too meta I move away from it, because it just sucks the fun out of that thing. It starts feeling like that OP thing is doing the work instead of me, and for me that is just not fun. It's fun succeeding as the underdog.
100% agree man, it's much more fun and satisfying to take the challenging route
I know this is sort of a random example because it's a mobile game, but i hate what is happening in Brawl Stars right now. All these youtubers pumping out their tier lists every week and what do you know, the brawlers at the top are gonna show up in EVERY SINGLE RANKED MATCH. It's sort of tradition at this point that the bottom tiers that get hardcountered by everyone are the most fun.
One issue with the Finals is that there are so little options to choose from to begin with at the moment. In games like Overwatch or Apex there are a lot more champions. Either way the meta will be there because in the end most people who play ranked modes want to win and be competitive. If something sucks too much and they can't win with it they won't play it or if something is op and they're dominating with it then they'll play it. I think it's just the duty of developers to make changes often to shift the meta to somewhere else and experiment with new stuff to keep the playerbase alive.
Yeah 100% games design and balance has an impact on these things, games like overwatch with so many diverse characters are impossible to balance, so there will always be OP heroes. but if you look at TF2 where no one plays competitively anymore and doesn't care about any sort of meta, it's just play and have fun and even the people that are trying are more just using skill expression to have fun in a stylish way, that game is also not very toxic at all I noticed when playing, probably just due to the general mindset of players on there
the Finals is just terribly balanced and has some serious design flaws. meta will always exist, but it's exacerbated in that game because there are some gadgets/weapons/specs that are quite literally useless to the extent that using them will be an active detriment to your team & will likely not be having fun playing the game anyway, so people default to the meta since it works & it's fun.
I have found my ppl , I actively go against the meta just cause. And ive always been like this when i was younger playing cod i always went for the under used ARs “cuz they need love too” is what i used to say but now i say fuck the meta 😂
yeah i was the same when i was younger, i remember black ops 1 had so many guns (especially) SMGs that rarely got used, even though i mostly sniped i used to use them when ever i reg gunned
It’s more of the developers job to offer more VIABLE options rather than the players to just “play for fun”.
It’s not fun to eat ass and die to more meta builds when you’re using off meta weapons/heroes/whatever.
Take the finals for example, if your aim is insane but you prefer sniping, playing a long range sniper build is viable but if u wanna go aggressive close range the pistol is just better. It’s more fun to use the pistol and kill people than use the shitty mp5 and die to heavies, hence it’s meta. I used to play siege a lot and used this character called buck who has a good gun and kit but once more people used him, the devs nerfed him for being “overpicked”. It’s more fun to play him cuz he’s good and nerfing him only made the game less fun. The devs should have buffed other characters to make them more viable and fun not the other way around
That siege situation sounds similar to what they did at start of apex, nerfed wraith because she had high pick and win rate, but it was because she allowed good players to play super aggressive and she had the smallest hitbox, there was nothing really wrong with her though, she just attracted higher skill players
Playing especially any game that can be treated as a competitive one has everyone eventually forgetting that they want to play those kinds of games for fun, i like improving that's why i'm glued to shooters and fighting games, but it's just a by-product of playing a game more and more, using the stuff i find fun instead of looking for strong traits that gives the highest advantage for you or whatever.
Games havent gotten that bad, it's communities treating everything way too seriously. My only guess is that people know they're at least somewhat decent at a type of game, so they want to keep that title and pedestal they put themselves on, and if they dont feel that way, others will make sure to vocalize their frustrations. Which makes the only fun you can have at face value being winning. To be fair allot of games are more and more team driven so i think they can also be part of the blame there.
Great video! Your stuff is always very well put together and You’re such a breath of fresh air from all the streamers telling people to use the fcar.
I think the algorithm will find you any day now
Thank you man, really appreciate the support :)
the finals fun is ruined thanks to the apex sweaty tryhards migrating from their dead game over to the finals and they ruining it like how they ruined apex they taking the fun out of the game the same way they did to apex legends
I loathe the new age meta gamers. They don't play to improve and reward themselves from their progress. They rather find the easiest and quickest way to exploit. So they become meta rats. Thwy refuse to handle adversity and work at something to be good at.
6:33
The only way to stop the meta is content creators or community posters to stop giving players the ability to abuse certain items or character cause you trying to help people to have fun you doing the opposite cause sooner than later players will use the same thing to the point it's getting boring and suck all the fun out of it make guides on how to make players have fun not trying to give players a thing to abuse.
I started being a revolver chad in the finals because its fun af, hitting nasty flick headshots with it gives me the same vibes as using the deagle in cs. However most of my games tonight were against cloak + stun + db/mp5 lights (had 1 game with 4 of them and gotta say it was one of my worst experiences ever being stunned 2-3x in a row over and over), or nuke heavies with lewis and full shields. It was so sweaty when all I wanted to do was vibe on quick cash, im not even playing ranked.
Great video mate. We're in the age of information and we are really not mindful about how we use that information.
It's my opinion that If you're forcing yourself to conform a boring meta, it should be because you are competing at the highest level, or are so bad that you can't play the game any other way. (but the reality for most is "my streamer does it")
I find myself getting enjoyment in every game I play by developing a fun, stylistic, off meta play style, even if it can be frustrating dying to boring, easy mode meta slaves. It's worth it to have your own identify and a goal other than "win" or "higher numbers"
Anyway, a great topic to make a video on. Sadly, people will never change and making the meta fun is a challenging job the devs have to do right.
This is why i ignore almost every single pvp game out there and have started enjoying solo and pve games. I still do play overwatch sometimes though. But i think a game that mostly suffers from meta slaves is yugioh duel links, master duel and even OCG.
Whats the point of having zillions of cards only to be completely ignored because the meta exists…..
Yeah man I feel you, I love PvP shooters, always have. But so many can be completely spoiled because of this shit
Fun isn't the #1 priority anymore sadly, for the Devs or the players
I just stopped playing online games altogether because of this meta shit. Nevermind the cheaters and toxicity in them. I forgot how fun and rewarding it is to just turn on a single player game and explore it without guides or walkthroughs is.
@@ArvisSc yeah man 100% Ive recently been playing vintage story with some mates, having a really good time, chill as fuck
i made that comment on the other vid after being bummed about being the reason my team lost most of our games. i wish movement sniper would be better
a lot of people associate winning with fun, and i ended up mostly playing revolver med with friends who are trying to win. revolver is still super fun, admittedly less than sniper, but it makes the whole experience more enjoyable cause i can actually play the objective and am not the reason my friends lose
i think there's a lot to talk about relative to the job of devs who balance the game. they should encourage the most fun way of playing by making it a seriously viable strategy. its the reason im a huge ssbm fan (puff hater), hitscan fan, aim assist hater, etc... im a fan of games that reward the player for being good
and im a fan of players who are sick despite the game encouraging them to be lame. its why i like ur content
i think its also why ppl are looking for a new fps. one that doesnt have perma invis and cheesy abilites. kinda like cs and quake but faster and newer/more polished, respectively
Yeah man completely agree, if the "meta" of a game is just to get good, it's a much more fun and rewarding experience, games like quake are a great example like you said, in those games the better player wins, Devs are trying to cater to casuals so much to make more money these days (hence the super overturned aim assist), unfortunately since gaming has become very mainstream Its not likely a triple A dev team will release a really high skill shooter any time soon
I play exclusively mele wepons in the finals. I totally agree with everything in this vid. People are far more interested in winning than having a good time and its killing gaming.
I think the dagger is a cool idea, I wish the backstab was a bit faster though. I used it a bit, but I really just wanted to bhop past people and backstab as I went past, like spy in TF2. But the wind up was just too slow.
that's not why it's called meta- it's short for metagame - or the game about the game. your definition is a backronym
It's definitely an acronym for most effective tactic available, I'm not sure if it also has another meaning though
Slasha is right about this one. That other one was devised _after_ meta had been coined and sued for many years.@@NineLives9
@@NineLives9 As they said, it’s a backronym. A backronym is an acronym people came up with for the term long after the term was popularized. The term “meta” comes from “meta gaming”. Meta means “referring to itself” so when talking about meta gaming you are talking about the game itself. So people have been using the term “meta” to describe the most effective strats long before anyone came up with the acronym you used in the video-it’s not a different meaning or usage, it’s just a backronym someone came up with to describe what the word already meant.
@@lllSavitarlll seems like a very unlikely coincidence, but I'll take your word for it
@@NineLives9All examples of backronyms seems like amazing coincidences but that just the nature of them.
I always understood meta being in ranked/PVP games, but one thing that really frustrates me is meta in PVE games.
Don't starve together, is one of my favorite games but I have to avoid the community because, it is full of people complaining certain chracters are over/underpowered. Every character can beat the game, the real issue should be, is the chracter fun? Not how quickly can they kill a boss.
Yeah exactly, everyone #1 priority when playing games should be fun
what if devs made changes to the game but didn't give exact information about gameplay patches? leaving the players to once again discover how the game now operates then to have it changed again when players start getting too comfortable (ideally for non-competitive games)
That's actually a pretty interesting idea
yeah i just think to how when there's a new patch my friends and i read through and see who was buffed or nerfed to then switch how we're playing the game, now if we didn't know what the changes were there would be less of instantly dropping a weapon or character just to play something that was "buffed"@@NineLives9
Me just chilling with my riot shield while people fight to the death over 0.2 second faster TTK weapon
I completely agree with nearly all of the topics talked about in this video, thanks for voicing your opinion because not enough people do
Another great video. Just commenting here to boost interaction, so hopefully more people will find it
Appreciate it alot dude, cheers
I find myself looking at guides a lot. It was really bad when I played my first souls game, Elden Ring. Luckily the builds I was trying out were not OP but did guide me into a direction of what could be done in the game. Sadly I got stuck at looking at other people's builds and didn't experiment on my own because I found them way less effective.
I hope you blow up soon! :D
I dunno if this is meta but heavy lewis gun c4 rpg dome and charge or goo gun as my special. So much fun such high dmg
What I’ve always done in my 5-6k hours in very competitive fps games is play 1/2 meta. Like in the finals (even in my diamond ranked games) I play meta util and usually use a revolver and sometimes throw a nade launcher game in there for fun. I very rarely play something that is objectively “bad” but I do try and mix it up sometimes to keep myself from getting bored.
Yeah, that's a good way to go about it, the revolver is a good weapon and it's super fun to use, a lot harder than fcar or akm and probably less effective overall, but much more rewarding in my opinion
How is this mans aim this good, no scoping with a sniper is cracked
On top of META, OP tactics hurt a game in more ways than I think that people realize. With the prevalence of competitive modes and mmr (and its variants) OP tactics can quickly slingshot players of all skill levels throughout a rank system. Highly skilled players who refuse to play OP/META or play a specific niche strategy can still get steamrolled by a much less skilled player who is crutching off of the OP META. This causes mayhem in the ranked system even long after an OP META has been changed since all of the players affected by it now need to play more games in the wrong rank in order to readjust.
I like to play splatoon 3's salmon run PvE mode which has a lax ranking system and will give players random weapons from a preset pool that changes about once a day. However, for fun, the game will have certain weapon rotations that are intentionally OP and will skyrocket many players' rank. While myself and many players love to play the game during this time the aftermath of players' rank slingshot can be felt for WEEKS afterwards with significantly worse teammates than before. I know that losing rank in salmon run can happen much more quickly compared to most other competitive ranked systems but that means that for games which take longer to readjust ranks might see the consequences of an OP META for months or years.
Very interesting example actually, thankyou. Ive never played Splatoon, didn't even realise it had any sort of a ranked system
Damn dude. First off, didn't know the actual meaning of META so thanks.
And I didn't know someone else related to my experience of gaming. I usually start with a class or weapon I find fun, but when we're losing I want to win so I feel the need to switch to easier/META weapons and yeah it can suck out the fun.
Great thoughts on gaming man.
Yeah dude, it's honestly an easy trap to get caught in, Ive had times on apex in the past where I'm just like "fuck it" I'll show them just how broken this meta is an abuse it myself haha, but no one really wins, everyone just stuck playing the same boring shit
Pretty sure GOATS started in like 2019 and died when they brought in 2/2/2. Meta was defs around for longer than a few months.
Yeah it was around for a long time, that's why I just said "months on end" it's open ended, saved me looking up the exact dates lol
reminds me of the Core-A-Gaming vid about Honers vs Innovators
u are an innovator trapped in a honers world
new to the channel, great video man. Lots of good points that i agree with. Subbed!
Appreciate it dude, hope you enjoy the future videos
no sorry video games are for competition not fun. Coincidentally please dont ask what my real life achievements are
Not everyone one is born to be a try hard you know
Good advice!
I will give it a try in any game i will play next . And comment the experince after i finish the game
Sick man, I'll be keen to hear what your experience is like. Thanks
@@NineLives9 well you have to wait i am playing ghost runner there is no such thing like meta in this game .but this game is very fun and fast you should give it a try .
dark and darker
whats the game you are playing at the start?
Exanima, fucking great game, super challenging and hilarious the first time you play it
Based examina gameplay
What is the game he is playing as footage?
I'm playing Exanima, V rising and The finals in the background clips
very great points, wish more people thought like that.👍
do you think there is any chance to balance every gun in the finals
I mean it's basically impossible to have any game with different weapons and classes completely balanced, but they could get it close, I would say the finals isn't terribly unbalanced or anything it's actually pretty good compared to alot of other games, but things like invis and stun gun are really just inherently shit unenjoyable things to have in a shooter game
Meta is just a reflection of general human behaviour.
It kind of irks me when people conflate the most popular tactic, with the most effective, because far too often they are not one and the same. I've seen too many times where the most effective/strongest thing is just ignored by the entire player base for months or years, because the extent of a player base's problem solving capabilities is to copy what they died to the most.
Very little thought is given to actually countering the meta. Their thoughts often fail to extend beyond copy or beg the developers for a nerf.
'Meta' doesn't ruin games, it's gamers approach to gaming that ruins it. Gamers often fail to realise that for something they supposedly love, they have a very poor mental approach to it!
But again this is just a reflection of general human behaviour.
If you can, I hope you delve deeper into this, as there is so much more to be explored...
"It kind of irks me when people conflate the most popular tactic, with the most effective, because far too often they are not one and the same." That's so hilarious and true. The way CSGO players shat on the SG as inferior to the AK because "the pros only play AK"; but the even pros ignoring a superior choice (I don't even know why) for years, only to one day they realize it's superior after all and everyone starts using it... One of the most insightful moments of meta in recent time.
Some people find winning fun
Yeah I know, that's why I specified if you are playing it and don't find it fun, it's a game people are welcome to play however they like, but I think a lot of people aren't really playing how they would like, but how they have basically been told to
I dont think meta inherently ruins games
The players do we forget that we game to have fun
Now the concept of Fun varies from.person to person
Like i enjoy the FCar and Akm a lot but does that make me a meta slave?
When you said you make guides for fun
Why can we not apply the same reason to other who make guides as well who is to say that they dont find the op weapons fun?
It feel like this is a matter of perspective
Idk just food for thought
Yeah I agree, I was specific to address those who are playing the meta but find it boring, one of my favourite overwatch heroes is mccree, I would play him whether he was underpowered or overpowered at the time, I just liked the character no matter what. But it's just people who are all playing same weapon or character then it gets nerfed and 90% of the people that were using it move on to the next meta thing
Overcompetitiveness ruins games. The other day I was on a discord server trying to find people to play, and I couldn't get a single person that didn't exclusively want to play Ranked and just ranked. Nothing but ranked. When asked why, they'd mostly respond that it's the only thing that's any fun because it gives them a purpose to play. Playing for fun just isn't a thing anymore, it seems. Trying out wacky strats or meme builds just doesn't compute for most people. Playing a casual game makes no sense because they're "wasting time" they could've used to raise their rank. It's a sad situation altogether.
Great video dude
Great thumbnail dude
@@NineLives9 Thanks dude
good vid
in the long run playing meta does cause burnout. But in the short term it boosts my winrate and winning is fun for me. IM always going to be competitive at fps games its how I have fun. but i dont like hard following metas i like creating them for me its goo gun and c4 barrels lmao rn.
In destiny 2 pvp this problem is magnified by a thousand because all the pvp players only use what’s the best at the time no matter what because pvp players in that game only use what youtubers make videos about(I could type for an hour about all the stupid ass dogshit that I’ve played through in that game) I stopped playing destiny 2 entirely because all people would use right now is bubble or well with immortal and a sniper or immortal and a shotgun
I played destiny 2 once for a couple hours (stopped cause I wasn't really a fan) but my mate who had played said it was quite meta driven and I did notice people using a lot of the same shit every game, I had some weak as fuck fun you start with too, was pretty horrible cause I had never done the pve haha
Metas absolutely suck out the fun and ruin games. Unless devs actively update the game regularly and shake up the meta i feel like most games die due to it.