I would never go back to academia. Here's why.
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
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This is, I guess, a short rant about our broken university system here in the US. This comes from a place of love for education. I just wish we did a better job.
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00:00 - Beginning
00:28 - Do I regret leaving?
01:30 - Why I wouldn't go back
07:02 - This is my cranky old man rant - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Look at the massive industry that has built itself around academia as well - all in the hope of gamifying a student's education. They learn to get the highest grade, not by mastering the subject, but by hacking information input. Nuance, comprehension, and critical thinking have no place in this game. And students are pressured to win no matter what.
you think academia is the only one ? Look at tech industry or any other industry , what are the major inventions in last two decades ? Nothing , all they are doing is just trying to make things have shorter lifespans to increase sales. My smart phones have no additional services which were not available a decade ago . The consumers are getting screwed at all fronts by the owners. The society is returning to its original form , lords and the peasants.
I'm a bit confused, can you help me understand what you mean by "hacking information input"?
@@jeppeaim3039 I think about it along the lines of trying to get as much information about a subject into your head before a test instead of full understanding. (The essential problem is how we test subject understanding) but treating learning like a regurgitation of material. It's a system students are subject to, and with the pressure to succeed, will (and maybe should) game in order to get the grade. It's Spark Notes versus reading a text.
You miss the #1 actual issue. Academia is a d3adborn of CORRUPT belly of a few corporations that just goes Satanic in the walls of Academia cause hey academia is good. It isn't!
This is a complex situation
The true way of "measuring if a student has learned the subject" is by a teacher specifically questioning the student, doing oral testing.
The issue here is that doing *that* is by default not standarizable, which means that it is left to the judgement of the teacher, which opens liability to the school system(s) if the "customers" (parents of the kid) dont get what they want. And then it brings the second issue, and that is that cohorts of students today are infinitely larger than lets say, cohorts of students in the late 1800's. Therefore it is simply not possible timewise to have a teacher do oral testing in such a way.
I have very much seen what you mention happen in my homecountry of Chile, where there is an anual test for University entry, and your future university and what you want to study depend on the score of this test. If you dont get a high enough score then you simply will not be able to study what you want that's it. So people go to specialized schools for which their only objective is to have the students hack information input to be able to answer the questions of the test. It is sheer paperclip maximizing. But at the same time, it is simply the outcome of all the pressures that go towards this. In a standarized test you are not being asked if you "know the subject". You are being asked to provide the answer to the question that the standarized test designers want, and it doesnt matter not one bit if you feel another question also answers the question asked within the context, it only matters the question that the designers wanted you to take...
This same thing can be seen in "high level" university courses. Lets say to Doctors or Lawyers, both of which *must* cramp *huge* amounts of information in order to pass their courses.
Anyhow, all of this is simply a consequence of the era we live in.
“The great enemy of any attempt to change men's habits is inertia. Civilization is limited by inertia.” - Edward L. Bernays, Propaganda 1928
I’m 81yrs old and don’t have a degree, but you convinced me to pick up a book on stoic philosophy. I’m an avid reader and have been since I was 8 yrs old. Thank you sir💕
That's incredible!! Keep it up! 💪
We are never too old to learn. I’m currently reading about the history of the Christian god. Not as a religious thing, but from an archeological perspective.
Now imagine that you have a treasure of new knowledge emerging from your reading that deserves research publicatioms. Where do you go? The world of research requires whole other framework for novel developments, NOT JOURNALS/ACADEMIA
@@JeantheSecond-ip7qm Interesting! What sources are you reading?
@@clamarroan God an Anatomy by Francesca Stavrakopoulou.
I totally resonate with what you said. I was an assistant professor at a world top 100 university in the Netherlands - and I got disillusioned and quit my job. I'm now a researcher in Germany. It's a more solitary job and there's no teaching but I feel it's a better and purer use of my time.
If you were teaching, what would you share? Your students are waiting for your instruction over CZcams
What disillusioned you?
How is it different in germany?
Interesting. But Germany limits how many research contracts you can have, from my understanding. Are you working for a think tank? An industry? Something else?
@@clamarroan The use of students merely as cashcows, the very low bar on entry standards - they would admit students with poor academic records who could pay, just to ramp up the intake, the reluctance of students to learn hard science and the university's encouragement of the same to keep the 'customer' happy, too much time spent on teaching uninterested students with little time to do research, etc.
Three things struck me as a philosophy undergraduate.
First, there was a lack of contact hours. My course only had eight contact hours in total. Four hours were devoted to lectures, and four hours were devoted to seminars.
Discussion is an essential part of philosophy, and yet, for each module, we were discussing an important philosophical text for only fifty minutes in a seminar. This was very disappointing.
Second, philosophy programmes are not selective enough. Many students on the course did not want to complete the required readings, and many would surf the internet during seminars.
Third, in the last and most important year of my studies, graduate students, fresh from completing their Ph.D.s, were leading some of my modules.
While I have been taught by some very good graduate students in the past, many lack teaching experience and familiarity with the subject matter. Given the importance of the final year of one’s studies, I was shocked by this.
I study Education with Psychology as an undergrad currently and all 3 of these are identical to my experience too. I often also feel like one of the only students in a cohort of 75 that actually wants to engage with the topics in seminars too, can be really frustrating.
This is very shocking... I thought professors in philosophy know what they are doing...
I’m college educated, but never got into reading as much as I have in the past year. You inspired me to read Ursula Le Guin, and through you I found Harold Bloom and have been so enriched by the western canon. You’re doing good work and it’s reaching people probably on a more personal level through video format! I really appreciate the thoughtfulness of your content!
I didn't do the readings, or engage with any of my classes when I was at uni paying exorbitantly for it. As soon as I dropped out, I spent hours studying on my own, because it was suddenly easier again.
Those 300+ student classes are utterly destructive. If you find something fascinating, there's no-one to talk to about it and ask questions. If you find something difficult, there are thirty students mobbing the lecturer immediately after class. It's easier to just disengage
I have a lot of personal interests that I want to pursue. And I believed that being in academia would provide an avenue for pursuing those interests. But in reality, I have found that being in academia has forced me into a position of providing a service that students don't want (I work in teaching mathematics) and that detracts from my freedom to pursue my personal academic curiosities (applying my philosophical perspective in mathematics and category theory to broader fields beyond undergraduate mathematics) because I MUST teach undergraduate math courses that are accessible to a broad collection of students, so that they can succeed in an environment where mathematics is not their primary interest. The pressure to simplify and water down the material is a pressure from administrators that want to provide degrees as a product students can purchase rather than a measure of how developed and well rounded students have become.
It's frustrating and has made me seriously reconsider my purpose and place in modern academia.
Thank you for your channel, I would’ve never gotten back into reading and writing if it weren’t for you!
I really appreciate you saying that! And I'm glad I could be of use.
Hey Jared. Thanks for your posts. I have been following a lot of your Codex posts, to learn more about literature. I'm 60, retired now for the last 5 years or so and in my retirement have focused my energies on writing and reading and learning about literature. I'm deep into that whole experience and loving it. I have gone to your posts, and a few other podcasting 'Literatos' on the web to get some background on writers I like, and literature movements and the history of literature and language. I had originally hoped to audit some classes in the universities in my town, but found them wanting, or not inviting, unless you've paid up and so I've gone to people like yourself for that learning. Just wanted you to know, you still have students and that this choice to share your knowledge and experience here, has been great for those of us out here, who want it. Hope you're able to continue. Thanks again.
Wow! I never expected to see this much pain/sorrow and (com)passion. I'm Estonian and I have absolutely no personal knowledge of what's going on in universities over there ... but the WAY you talk shows your honesty and even though you stay entirely logical and rational -- I would say, sadness and disappoint.
It was a powerful talk. I hope everything will work out for you.
Me watching this while preparing to go into academia 👁👄👁
Me watching this, in academia T^T
@@kai1799 oof
me watching this, struggling in academia and taking another break from it.
Atleast you'll know the cons already and be well prepared :)
X2
I agree that a lot of students are not being set up for success. A lot of my colleagues believe that our students are lazy and stupid. All of my students work full time outside of school. Many of them speak multiple languages. They're neither lazy nor stupid. They're overwhelmed.
Your comments about not being encouraged or challenged to read remind me of a first-year student I taught who told me wanted to be a lawyer and prior to my class he had never once read a book from cover to cover. He didn't have the skills to really analyze what was happening in the books we read because he was learning how to do that in a university course rather than earlier in his life. He really did try! I think he has a lot of potential to improve! But he's starting so far behind because he wasn't challenged earlier.
I think that we faculty forget our own challenges when we were students. After you learn the basics of the field OF COURSE it is much easier than it is for them. Also, in these days, many more families are acquiring a college education than in the 1940s and 1950s, and given the cost nowadays, OF COURSE they are struggling.
Not all of them are lazy and stupid. Some of them certainly are.
I agree 100% with everything you said. I have a master‘s degree from a swiss university and felt that the education was severely lacking. I also would have loved to go into academia but the people I knew that did that were all unhappy. It’s so sad because academia would be a dream job if it was actually about academia.
I also think that education is so elitist and exclusive to those who can afford it and that’s just wrong. Your channel is open to everyone and I‘m glad it exists.
Jared, thank you so much for this video. As someone who is in the process of leaving my doctoral program to pursue my passion as a landscaper, I deeply resonate with your message here. "Leaving academia was the thing that allowed me to pursue what I actually want my vocation to be." This is a quote of yours I'm going to carry with me on my own departure from academia. It's a quote that'll keep me working strong in tripple digit heat for sure. Your departure from academia and your plunge into your current persuits serve as an inspiration to me and I cannot express in words how much this means to me. I'll leave it at "thank you," for now. And I look forward to watching your videos on this channel or on other BookTube channels you're featured on. Take care.
this was phenomenal Jared. Your videos have encouraged me to put Boethius on my soon-to-be-read list. (We were assigned him in college but had a hurricane that cancelled school that week, and I don’t think I did the optional reading…excited to finally go back to it.) thank you!
One other thing I noticed is that the classic works in my field were essentially absent from my education. In a history program we never discussed Herodotus, Thucydides, Tacitus, Hobbes, and Gibbon, and barely touched Plutarch and Polybius. I don't think we read any historians with a real impact on the field and it was almost all articles that had been written in the last 30 years. Now I feel like I'm playing catch up even though I already have my degree.
I'm a senior undergrad in an English program, and I've experienced the same thing. My professors are always referencing these classics, expecting students to be familiar with them, but they're never covered or actually discussed in classes.
It's like the professors learned it all and forgot that it needed to be taught, creating a massive literary gap.
Don't even get me started on grammar or technical language either. I wouldn't be surprised if most literature professors wouldn't be able to speak accurately or articulately about any of it.
The main advantage of an academic education in history, philosophy, literature etcetera is that by the end of it you should have acquired broad, summarized, reliable knowledge about the subject (along with some specialized expertise) and have learned how that knowledge was acquired and how to do research yourself and think critically.
Historiography or the history of how history was written is not usually the main focus of a program in history let alone a detailed study of works of the major historians of the past. I don't see how that would be possible in the limited time available. Do you think you would know more about history if you had classes devoted to that instead of other subjects? Gibbon's 'The decline and fall of the Roman Empire' consists of 6 volumes and thousands of pages: how long would it take to read and discuss even a portion of that in class? Not to mention it was written in the 18th century and its main thesis (Christianity as the main cause for the decline and fall of Rome) is pretty much universally rejected today.
In my view you're not catching up: your intellectual journey has just begun. With the major advantage of having a sound base of knowledge with which to evaluate and appreciate the works you mentioned. Which is something most people lack.
Of course academic programs aim to produce academics which may not be ideal or even what most people who enter them expected and wanted but I do think they have value none-the-less. Self-study without any formal education to start from is not all it's cracked up to be. Professors are worth listening to.
I did history and taught it as a grad student. The texts you mention (apart from Gibbon) are all part of either the Classics programme or Ancient History. They’re not looked at in History programmes in Europe at all.
I'm starting my masters in English soon and I've noticed getting people to study Classics actually drives would be students away. Like me, if I didn't study contemporary poetry and modernist stuff I would have never went and read Homer or Dante. If I had the read Homer first, I would have dropped out. Thats another major thing, is that making people study the Classics in an already small and dying major like English Literature would make it even smaller and less people would study it. Getting people to study what they like is what gets people into the subject area. @@Jepicosity
I agree with you 100% Jared. I've always been somewhat interested in philosophy on a very surface level but when I came across your channel a while back, you got me excited to dig a little deeper into it. I'm still a slow reader mind you, but you've really helped me to not just give up on a text because its a little challenging or it is taking a long time to get through. Keep up the great work! 🙂
Thank you for your videos. I had stopped reading for some time and was struggling to find something to pursue on my own time. I started purchasing and reading more since watching your channel. You have definitely help me find the passion of reading more meaningful books again.
Lots of good insights here. I work at a university and am in a grad program there. Thank you for this video.
The quality of content that you put out is incredibly underrated. I was one of those students that struggled with reading, writing, doing math, etc and was told that this was and issue. Because of this everything was brought down a level in my mind until I reached high school. Your channel helped me discover a deep love for writing and reading.This discovery has shown me for the first time what those two subjects have to offer, the challenges that it poses to my mind and the benefit of overcoming those challenges. I appreciate your recent work on youtube and substack that advocates for a system that can better challenge the youth of today and hopefully create a generation great thinkers.
Great video, man. Thanks for this honest and very satisfyingly candid video. *Thank you*
I am in the uk and damn lol, I never really saw uni as an experience for me personally. I am not one to really party, uni to me is soley education and getting my degree and seeing where I come out at the other side. I LITERALLY am basically studying ALL the time
What are you studying?
@@MiloMay biotech
I mean different people have different interests and priorities… just make damn sure you graduated at the top if you sacrifice other opportunities.
I totally agree with your mission and it inspires me to do something similar, thankyou for sharing! ❤
Jared, this is an excellent video and I appreciate the integrity and thought behind your work. It’s bold to follow a path like this, and allowing us to see you pursue this “project” has been so enlightening and inspiring. I was a middle school teacher, and I’ve found that institutions get in the way of and prevent unfettered honesty and connection between student and teacher. I also think that watching a thoughtful intellect on CZcams is less stressful and imposing and more accessible for the average “smart book curious” than university. I’m following your career with great interest and many well wishes. ❤
You have definitely pushed me to try new books and to challenge myself with thinking deeply about the material. Thank you!
When I was in graduate school, my history professor said “I have to dumb down this class because if I taught you the way I learned none of you would pass.” That really made me
angry and insulted so after class I went to his office and said “Frankly I’m disappointed and frustrated because I didn’t come here to learn dumbed down material, I came to learn the most that I can. I believe I could learn what you learned.” He turned to me and said “you’re probably right, but nobody else in the class could so I can’t do it.” That’s what I was left with. Grad school still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, that I sacrificed all that time and money and I’m not sure what it got me. Now I’m learning way more on my own than I ever did in school. In part thanks to your videos like you said. Your early videos encouraged me to read hard books outside my field and I’ve been enjoying tackling philosophy and difficult books and learning that my intellect is not limited to my initial field but that I can expand my education beyond that schooling on my own.
Kudos for giving a sober analysis! I’m about to return to academia for a phd after teaching at a high school level for the last 15 years. I share your concerns. However, I do think that the only way to make a change is from within. And so, while I respect your opinion and decision, I think there still is hope. Keep up the good work on this channel!
Oh please make a youtube channel so we can track your slow metamorphosis from optimistic excited early PhD "changing things from within" student to aggravated cynic ogre.
I absolutely resonate with what you shared (speaking from an engineering student's perspective). I'm a rising junior, and throughout my life college was presented to me as the pinnacle of intellectual inquiry and academic excellence. And although there are certainly aspects of that, in my experience many departments fall short of providing that experience for the majority of students. It's really up to students individually to carve out a path to explore their intellectual interests, it's sad that we can't rely on our institutions to provide that for us and more often than not they can actually get in our way and even inhibit our progress in doing that.
Thanks Jared. Over the past many months I have been watching and enjoying your videos, you have provided an extra spark in my desire to read philosophy. I have been interested for a few years, but it now is more than just an interest. I believe it is something that can enrich my life in many ways. Last month after I finished reading Meditations for the second time I went straight to Letters From A Stoic. I seem to be reading these works with a different level of awareness. I can't say it is from just watching your videos, but I do believe it has definitely helped. Take care fella.
my experience in US education, both as a student and as a teacher, is that it takes so much agency away from the students, and it makes it easy, and boring and students are smart enough to realize they dont have to try and so they dont. everyone passes, everyone graduates, as long as you show up half the time and sort of do something, it's good enough.
i eventually found art, and it was the only type of class where i was allowed to challenge myself, make my own decisions, and succeed or fail based on my own work. no other class i took gave me that agency and engagement, gave me the experience of doing something for myself and seeing the results of my effort.
we rob students of ever learning that they can make their own decisions and challenge themselves beyond the outlines of a multiple choice test.
Insightful take. I'm wondering what was your major as a student and what do you teach now? Because as a current Soc and Psych double major, I feel a lot of my major classes give me great autonomy to explore things I'm passionate about if it's within the scope of the class. Although, when I take quantification or natural sciences classes, I do feel there is no space for autonomy or creativity which made me really frustrated (but, at the same time, I don't know if there is another way to teach them than that..).
@@randk2370 i studied studio art, but had to take a lot of 'required' classes and art history and the contrast was very apparent. maybe it is just the difference between the types of class, but there must be a way for students in all areas to feel like they are genuinely involved in their own education, that there are real stakes and real rewards. but of course, these schools would have to be putting education first and you know that cant happen.
Another aspect of American academia is that it’s designed for people who can devote all of their time to school, which is an absolute privilege. There’s not as much consideration or support for those who work while attending school. I was certainly not prepared for 500 pages of reading per week when I began my Master’s degree while also working full time.
Sorry to ask but my friend just finished her residency & is planning on doing her job now and getting a partime Phd from Ohio university.. isn't partime Phd available in the US in general or is restrictive?
@@Garglicious I’m not able to speak about that experience as I am only working on a Masters and not a Ph.D. But I hope your friend has a wonderful time in their studies!
This channel really inspires me to further engage in a lot of my interests, thank you for that
I always get something out of ALL your videos. I am long out of college and university, now retired, but reading is something I love and you are truly an inspiration in so many ways. Thank you.
Academia globally has become a business that doesn't foster the life of the mind. You can be a scholar without being an academic.
"CZcams University" is actually pretty good, if you choose good explainers and avoid the pop-level glitzy stuff. Even for deep technical detail, there are those out there who can inspire and talk real science using real math. Some are superb explainers, not dumbing down for the general public but making the esoteric seem intuitive, such as 3 Blue 1 Brown.
Hey, I study chemistry in Germany. It is a lot less expensive to study here but there are also problems. In Germany professors are doing a lot of the teaching, but there also overseeing the PhD.s and connecting with the industry and politics. Thus, they are really overworked and often just set up the material for their course and really rarely actualize it. Also they get no training in teaching at all, it’s just assumed they know how to do it. That and the fact that they are “verbeamtet” (if they don’t do something criminal, they are practically impossible to fire) makes the teaching quality a gamble. Most of them are at least ok though.
I was in the student council for many years and making the test easier was discussed frequently. In hindsight I am most shocked about the total uninterested way, they treated the growing gap between expectations and reality of student performance. They never even attempted to collect data. I mean fixing problems is sciences hole deal, right? They never even asked themselves if it might be a structural problem. They just assumed that schools are getting worse (which is true) and that students need to self-organize more.
What Jared mentioned in this video - that students are getting to little feedback - is also true here.
Nice to find your channel and the others here who share similar experiences and views. I was a philosophy graduate candidate years ago and had similar dreams of reading/writing/teaching philosophy as a career. Ultimately I decided against pursuing it and have occasionally been haunted by "what if" thoughts. (One of my loves was philosophy of language as well btw!) The more I hear professional academics and former professional academics discuss the problems and often downright toxicity in the academic bubble, the more I'm convinced I saved myself a lot of headache and heartache, not to mention money, by not going that direction. Thanks for your channel!
As someone who's taking a break from academia (on the STEM side), I would like to note that a lot of the time when those first two years aren't being taught by grad students, they're being taught by non-tenure track faculty who have very little ability to push back on demands without putting their employment in jeopardy. My experience as NTT at a flagship university was one of high teaching loads, low support, and a desire to streamline everything. Ironically, I felt far greater leeway to challenge students at a two-year school, and the class loads were small enough that I could give students the attention needed. In addition, the students tended to come in not feeling like they'd "made it" by getting into the institution, so there was often more of a drive to challenge oneself. There were often issues with non-education things interfering that took more work, but students with complicated lives deserve good educations too.
While I'm not in the humanities, I do agree with you that the move towards testing has led to a disturbing prioritization of shorter passages. I was especially concerned with that for my youngest kid, who spent his last year and a half of high school taking English online -- the state insisted on use of a system that changed what the students did quite dramatically, eliminating major book-related projects. In particular, the English department had one project called "major author " where students read five books by an author chosen from a list, analyzed the books and produced a work that discussed major themes and connections over those five books. The state did away with it during the pandemic. I understand - it's not something you can do easily with standardized testing - but I still grieve the loss.
Humanities professors are often retaliated against for increasing rigor, especially in subjects like foreign languages. If the program in a foreign language in particular will fail students at the same level of a difficult math or chemistry course the admin will target it for budget cuts or closure. History classes are also effectively not allowed to be difficult for similar reasons, as the students tend to expect to be an easy A and when it isn't they leave bad evaluations, leading to pressure from administration
Thank you so much for talking about this. Our world has plenty of vices to depress over, but somehow this is one of the top contenders for me. I deeply wish I could go back to my childhood when I passionately studied for endless hours. Now university isn't about education but maxing out the stats in this popularity contest the world has become. Just became a lawyer now, a bit of course work yet to complete but I despise the system. I'm grateful for not being in debt, but can't bear what's happening with my friends who do. I'm rekindling my love for reading from your recommendations. Thank you for everything ❤️
On your last point, the environment of US higher education inculcates the idea that students are there to have an experience and then essentially get job training, which changes the classroom dynamics in a way not immediately perceptible. It's difficult to convince students not to worry too much about grades because they feel they must have the best possible grades to get a good job. It also does not help in the humanities grading students more rigorously leads to problems with administration or certain students complaining that the humanities course which was supposed to be an easy A was difficult.
23 year old university student here. I agree with your sentiments and observations, and I think the surge of inspiration many people feel when facing a challenge is necessary for education. There is truthfully one class I've taken in my university career where I've felt challenged, and the rest have been a bit below my intellectual capabilities - neither of which are to say I'm a whiz student by any means - but I felt really good doing the work for that one class! Doing the work for the majority of these classes feels dull and honestly more dutiful than it is inspiring or enriching. People like challenges, and we like the assumption that we're capable of more. Thanks for sharing this
Jared I really enjoy your insights that provoke thoughts thanks
I really appreciate your work and democratization of worthwhile material.
Love what you said, and hate how correct you are. Expectations, and universities/colleges as we knew them, are for the most part dead and gone. People are coming to you on CZcams because they've been starved for real, difficult, and meaningful education. Keep up the great work!
Thank you for sharing this
It's refreshing to hear someone speak honestly on this topic. I left the adjunct life mostly for selfish reasons because I could see that it was exploitative and there were no opportunities for advancement -- even though I really loved teaching. Now I work in an academic library and I see the problems you discuss becoming worse, particularly with the pandemic-accelerated shift to online learning and now the incursion of AI-generated text, which many students are using as a crutch instead of learning to write and think independently. University leadership responds by willfully ignoring the problem and telling faculty to "embrace it" and "adapt." Colleges and universities are businesses that often put profit before values, unfortunately.
Your channel has been helpful in getting me back to reading books (mostly fiction for now), so thank you for that!
Very good points. In recent years, the university experience has focused on extras, like gym, cafes, and entertainment/distraction things. Another big issue is the big focus on social justice causes and other political issues. College should be challenging, demanding, even hard...that's why it was so worthwhile in the past.
Thank you. Great chat. And also make no mistake Mr. Jared, you are still teaching.
Man I love this channel!
Nice work sir 👏
Hi. One more person commenting to help your channel. 💪🏻 Your videos definitely helped me, as a middle aged woman, open up to the idea of reading hard books! I’m a former librarian, I love reading and lifelong learning. But somehow I left out the classics and works on Philosophy. 🙏🏻
Thank you for your perspective!
Seeing your videos really coincided with my bachelor's burnout on year 3 out of 4. I'm not from America, but our countries' humanitarian faculties (Theatre studies in my case, but also Humanities in general) are understaffed and underfunded, not rescpeted compared to other sciences, and most graduates are not in demand at all. Also now professors and students can be fired or in extreme cases be legally prosecuted for being against government's policy... Add to that a feeling of inadequacy, and imposter syndrome (or maybe I'm just geniunely a bad fit lol)
Your videos as well as of other creators really remind me that I can choose a different vocation while continuing to learn more about life in philosophical and other terms on my own, that I do not neccesarily need a degree to "deserve" to have opinions about the world we live and the life that is happening. Thanks!
Today I learned about the result of me failing to get in a local music school, as a college drop out from Europe.
The failure of my application to music school forced me to rethink about why I dropped out at the first place and I came across this video.
Unlike the States, in Europe the Europeans don't need to pay tuition, however not much luck for the non europeans. Yet the situation is the same, in order for schools to provide "experience" there are a lot of budgets go into the "environment, event' etc proxy. And as a student of science I found it a big headache the school doesn't have the capability to offer us proper intermediate courses nor lab courses, yet always brand themselves as "game changer, world impact, will let you gain the mastery of xxx". It is really frustrating for me that every content I've came across in school lecture could've been learned from the internet, not saying it's thence bad, but really, then what's the value of a school other than selling the prestige?
LOL The marketing people have really successfully sell to every industry that "branding" is necessary.
Sir, that is a cool decision! There are significant problems in the selection processes for both learners and universities, as well as in academic management. Considering advancements in technology and the economic and political situations in different countries, there is a tremendous need for change in these processes. Throughout history, philosophers often lived modestly and were not wealthy, which contrasts sharply with today’s focus on economic survival and paying bills. Thanks.
Another refugee from academia here . . . I absolutely agree with your position on the “college experience,” the bloated non-education related staff, the internal politics, and the lack of rewards related to solid teaching. I left, and ended up performing evaluation research for a major bank, documenting lending discrimination based on income or race. That research helped major banks develop outreach to “lending wastelands” in their markets. Those years of work was the most fulfilling period of my life. There IS a place for us in the outside world, and occasionally, that can be very rewarding. Bravo for your explanation. ❤
Solving problems in the real world, making life and business better in some way, beats academia gloriously. I was in a Physics PhD program, passed the qualifier meaning I was ready to pick thesis advisors, but decided not to become a professor as a career goal. Instead, give me manufacturing, industrial R&D, hands-on problem solving. With a PhD and staying in the academic world, the goal is publishing papers, which is an okay thing to do, but just doesn't thrill me the way improving a product and making customers happy does.
I think the core problem here is Mission Creep. The term originated with military operations, but it seems to apply to about any organizion or institution, be it education, govt, health care, tech, NGO, etc.
I think the root is the human desire for prestige and to have control over as many people as possible thus an ever increasing staff size, coupled with the corporate eternal growth mandate.
Jared I have watched your videos on and off for a couple of years. I have taught at all levels of education and as a 53 year old man I have found joy in teaching at what you would label Kindergarten level as it fits in with my family commitments here in the UK. I enjoy being at the ‘chalk face’ but I have also become disillusioned by the decay in education and its constant ‘rebranding’. Style over substance. I have turned to your channel in an effort to scratch an intellectual itch. I am revisiting my brief foray into Philosophy from about 25 years ago. I am really enjoying it and with the summer break heading my way - I’m looking forward to being able to commit some time to it. Thank you for your honest and approachable manner - I’m sure academia has made a mistake in allowing you to move on. But then - I’m doing my most enjoyable work after ‘moving’ on from other things. Maybe this is your true calling?
Aw... I love reading the comments here. That word " intellectual itch" resonates with me so much.
I agree with you so much! ❤
Great points Jared. Never forget that universities are a business with an educational slant. Tuition is so high simply because the government is backing the student loans, thus admins are increasing the cost knowing that they will get the money. I agree that colleges are heading into trouble, but a lot of them do not even realize it yet.
Great video! And kitty approved-definite winner! 💜🐈⬛
This is a very interesting topic. I actually question students’ capability these days because the education is so poor before even getting to college. If they are given anything difficult, the level of complaining is nuts, and the professors give in to it instead of maintaining their expectations. I think most students are not there to actually learn, but to just get a degree. As a side note, in all my years of school (middle school, high school, college) I was never required to read a single classic novel.
I am 50+, and almost a year ago I was taking a history university course online. I was surprised that we were assigned to read specific fragments from 3-5 articles and all we had to do is to repeat the same point of view. No analysis, no competing two points of views, no synthesis, just read 20 pages and report. It was driving me insane. No wonder I quit.
That is not fun at all
as a student you've raised some very interesting and valid perspectives that i hadnt considered before, thank you!
This is amazing insight.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts
Man these are some really brutal facts
I thought the European school system lacks a lot of good education preparation but wow I didn’t expect it was similar over there
I've sometimes felt intimidated by the harder works of philosophy (I haven't read nearly as much as I would've wanted) but you have definitely inspired me to read more philosophy and you've given us a general understanding of how to approach it, which can be quite daunting even for someone interested in it, let alone any "normal" person. So yes I'd definitely say you've helped me get out of my comfort zone. And in other genres too, I started Book of the New Sun and GGK's books in part because you've recommended them, and I'm very glad. So thank you.
A year ago, you published 7 Books for Beginners, or something like that. Your video gave me that last nudge to read philosophy. I followed your recommendations and started with Plato's Works, then moved to Philosophical Investigations by Wittgenstein. I also have Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics on my shelf, but I haven't read that one yet.
Still, it was all thanks to you.
We appreciate your insights. I agree, not all universities are actually as good as they seem to be.
Great video. As someone who graduated a year ago, I have seen and felt the low quality education being given in college. I went to Grand Canyon University. And although I cannot speak for everyone there, the expectation of a tough, rigorous education to sharpen your mind for life is not there. People go there, like you said, for the experience, not the training to better their lives in work, family life and making the world a lovelier place.
It is sad, but it is the world we live in.
Keep up the videos. You are making a difference.
Hey Jares
I am one of your past followers during college, I am academia now , and start a CZcams channel, and I trust your explanations, and may you be one of models I need to be on CZcams one day.
and I wish you best in upcoming work
It’s very sad. These confidence problems extend to so many areas: craft, art, science, writing.
I'm a full time prof at a JC and a writer. Just wanted to drop in and say thank you for sharing your thoughts on the regular. It's a joy to listen to someone so passionate about the betterment of people's lives through the work of the mind.
This encouraged me as a stay at home homeschooling mom to continue reading long books and classics with my kids instead of just small excerpts. I want them to feel that they are capable from a young age to finish books and not feel so intimidated. It wasn’t until I stopped going to college and learning on my own that actually have felt the accomplishment of finishing a long book and really analyzing and enjoying the process.
I like to refer back to the rhetoric of Mark Twain about not letting schooling interfere with one's education.
But seriously, I often recommend that people seek out training in hard skills such as nursing, mechanical work, IT, etc. (as opposed to soft skills like management, administration, HR, et al.) Hard skillsets are almost always in shortage and their certification route relatively accessible. And most of all: instead of trying to find a job that makes you happy, find something you're good at and find joy in it.
Also, don't accept the notion that a junior college is necessarily inferior to the big universities. Junior colleges not only have much more reasonable pricing, class sizes, and scheduling, but the professors are most often retired industry professionals with a career of genuine experience and lots of earned wisdom. University professors (particularly those outside of the hard sciences) have little to no experience outside of the classroom, for better or worse.
Spot on. I am from Australia. Exactly the same situation. ❤
Having read philosophy books since I left college in 1989, everything you say here is spot on. At first, they seem daunting, but you get used to it and find yourself in a world of wonder. The fact that you prefer to do your own thing here on CZcams rather than be part of a predatory money-making system that doesn't deliver on its promises is something I admire.
I went to university in the UK in the 1980s. But I no longer rate UK universities or university education.
Thank you for sharing your real life insights. CZcams in 10 years is going to take everything by storm. Such as entertainment, informative Podcasts and education of any kind. Perhaps CZcams already did that, although it is limitless as long as we have content creators. Much more transparent than the traditional media, education and entertainment.
I was trained in high school to read complex philosophical books in a very short amount of time. I was young and did not get everything I was reading. Anyway, it made a difference for me at the university: instead of "philosophical antologies," with short excerpts from various philosophers, I was able to read actual philosophical books. I live in Europe, and in order to do this, I had to follow a study course in English (I am a mother language, Italian and English). But without my double language skills, without the proper education that one single teacher gave me in high school, what would have been of my university education? As a researcher, I still see students struggling to read a whole book and prefer to read various reductions. This is highly discouraging. You can not do research in humanities without having the ability to face complex texts without an appreciation of minor works and a well structured knowledge. I am still in academia, but I understand your position. Things have to change: we have the responsibility of making our future generation independent and professionally competent. Thank you for sharing.
In my personal experience (I'm not in the US), adjuncts were the superior teachers at my university, with a few exceptions.
Adjuncts were usually younger, and they not only stuck around permanently (some adjuncts have been working at my uni for 15+ years with no desire to switch) but they were also more in tune with advances in their fields than the professors.
With a few exceptions, 50+ 60+ years old professors usually taught what was relevant in their formative career years, while adjuncts and associate profs kept their fingers on the pulse of their respective fields.
Adjuncts also had a better ability to connect with the student body. They also had a more diverse knowledge base since most of them either grew up with or started using the internet from a younger age. Professors usually had a very deep understanding of whatever was relevant to their very narrow field of research, and many viewed having to give lectures as a burden that took time away from their research projects.
Where i work in Britain i mix amongst a lot of active students and i notice the same thing. I must stress i never went into academia didnt have A levels but i have read a lot of various topics including the classics when i discuss any of this hardly any know what im talking about. I seems education is like the highway code you just need to learn what is necessary to pass thats it you left on your own in the wide world theres no encouragement to carry on learning about anything they just end up doing menial jobs like where i work. But i have notice more youngsters now dont want to go on to further education because of debt but just go out to work. I use to dream about goint to universities prove myself to people but not now i don't regret it i just carry on learning my own way from books and CZcams videos like you thanks
I was a weird kid in highschool. When I saw how much college cost and the interest rates they charged, my response was "I wish I got that in my savings account!!". Given I was a weirdly financially conscious kid, I never left home. I went to the local community college to get my associates degree, got it transferred to the local 4 year university and completed my bachelors there. The quality of education was pretty disappointing. I see videos online from students at other colleges studying the same degree as me, and they can speak with such depth on topics I haven't even been introduced to. Funnily enough, I still find myself wishing I could've gone to a "real" school. The ones with the fancy libraries, dining halls, dorms, all that. I do sometimes feel like I missed something.
Throughout public schools in the United States, teachers are actively discouraged from requiring students to read full book-length works. The main reason for this is the misuse of standardized tests to evaluate schools and teachers, which makes those tests so high stakes that anything that won't show short-term gains is removed from the curriculum. There are no novels on the SAT, only excerpts, so get rid of novels and teach them how to read excerpts. Of course this backfires, as kids don't build the stamina or sense of accomplishment that comes from reading a book-length work, and hobble into college handicapped.
I'm going to say it plain and simple: Thanks a lot for your wisdom.
Same. I'm planning out my Substack / social media scope right now. Though my area is communication.
Thank you Jared
I'm 77 yrs old and I've four degrees but I distinguish between the Schooled Education and the immeasurably superior Acquired Education...The latter is far more useful and liberating personally, in literature, philosophy and social studies at least... The "classics" of old are not hard to read. Nor is most "classic" literature. They are the works of people discussing, either in story or direct discussion how we live and how we might live better.In fact the only writings hard to read are by academics who intend to be obscure and long winded to impress and compete with their peers. In philosophy for one example, I found the only thing hard to grasp about the Roman stoic Epictetus is the right pronunciation of his name... He was a fine fellow who applied Socratic honesty and inquiry and a Taoist like spirituality to life and struggles around him in ancient Rome. And bear in mind that he was a slave, not an emperor.....I encourage everyone to read him above the more elitist Marcus Aurelius...
This is a very important thing to hear as someone who wants to pursue a masters and eventually teach at the university level.
Some rhetorical questions: (1) are universities more focused on the pursuit of funding for research, or, is undergraduate education the top priority? (2) do parents expect a university to take their place when the student goes to a university? (3) is success at funding a higher priority in the tenure decision vs. teaching and training excellence of university students? (4) how many parents conduct ad hoc audits of the classes that their students take at a university as a matter of quality checks? (5) is poor teaching equivalent to stealing?
My average class size was around 14 students, and there were no teaching assistants, just professors (Hillsdale)
good school proving the old ways work
Great school
I envy you (in a good way), although my liberal arts program at UW (University of Washington) in the mid to late 90s wasn't too bad considering the lack of standards today.
Wow, what are the odds! Yes, UW is a great school and I had a great time being a student there, although I would have preferred smaller classes in an intimate setting. I imagine Hillsdale still provides one of the best liberal arts programs in the nation.
Not that I was seeking a career in academia, but I was turned off to any possibility of it after taking part time work for a lab on campus. I watched what the doctoral candidates and post-doctoral researchers had to jump through, as well as the politics. So I do understand some of the frustrations mentioned. Now after retiring from an unsatisfying career, I find myself wanting to learn again. I think it's natural that philosophy be the starting point for that, and I guess that's why the CZcams algorithms introduced me to this channel. So much of what I know of philosophy actually came from my high school courses. Your channel and suggestions have made it easier for me to rediscover what I have sorely missed.
The three-to-one ratio of administrators to faculty sounds crazy. I worked in universities in the UK and Germany for around 15 years, and there did not seem to be that many administrators. True, most of them work in the central building and not the departments, but still. I did get the impression however that, at least in the UK, the system was moving in the direction you describe.
I consider you are helping create a new host of autodidacts. You provide the possibility of education without the skew of contemporary academia.
As a fellow ex- academic, I totally agree with what you are describing. I am based in the UK, but the problems are, in my opinion, just the same. I am still processing my decision of leaving academia (it wasn't my choice entirely, burnout decided for me XD), but I think I do not regret either. I wish you all the best for your future plans, love your videos!!
I went to CU Boulder (Go Buffs!) in the winter of 2020 just before Covid lockdowns. It's a lovely campus with a rock-climbing wall, a football stadium, a planetarium, and a Vegas style buffet. It was totally geared toward an experience for the fresh-out-of-high-school lot. I was 44 and had never been to university before. It was ok, but I see exactly what you are saying in this video. I ended up not attending my sophomore year as I felt like I already had the skills and experience to get good work.
CU has a great campus, great scientists and professors, and Boulder is a great town for artists, intellectuals, creatives, explorers, and world class researchers. I regret leaving it for a job in Florida.
I did my bachelor in chemistry in Colombia in the 00's. A decade later, I decided to shift gears, I was living in the US and enrolled in a local college. I was baffled, the young students around me were really lazy and getting the same grades I had (doing all the work), they went to the teachers offices crying for better grades, and they got them. I left. I wasn't learning anything I couldn't learn by myself, given the really low standards in those classes.
I got my bachelors in the early 2000s, and later went back to school for a graduate degree. I was teaching as a grad in 2016-2018 and again as a lecturer in 2020-2021. Standards have fallen so low, there's no rigor, students are handled with kid gloves and emerge with an outsized sense of worth without the knowledge and skills to back it up, because they've been coddled for four years. Professors have become terrified to grade harshly or hold them to a high standard, because of sites like Rate My Professor, or being accused of this, that, or the other thing and called before administration. So most professors just let students slide in order to avoid conflict and confrontation because they are only interested in focusing on their research, and their undergrad classes are potential minefields of politics, gender, cancellation, etc.
Undergrad programs are broken. It's just about money.
@@dustyoldhat
This is absolutely the case, unfortunately
So, in your experience, is higher Ed better in Colombia than in the States?
@@clamarroan I'm no sure. I have no experience with Colombian education right now. I know it has changed to comply con international standards (that are about administration, not much about curriculum). I can say that the education I got in Colombia back in 2004 was way better than in the US in 2019, if only because I got real feedback and challenges, while in the US I didn't get feedback, the teachers were very reluctant to critique any student's work, they also didn't want to ask student to make the effort. They just nodded and said good job if the student gave the bare minimum (no incentive to do a good job if you're getting the same than lazy ppl).
@@clamarroan it depends a lot on a number of things. There are A TON of poor quality institutions in COL (I asume that's also true for the US). The crying for better grades thing is happening a lot (I worked for four years as an adjunct so I had to deal with that). Universities are also marketing themselves as an experience, so they're focusing on that rather than investing on, well, education. Adjuncts' conditions are HORRIBLE. In general terms, I'd say that you can do well here but only as long as you have access to a top-tier university and don't get debt. The size of the debt in the US is ridiculously higher tho.
I am getting into academia as an adjunct at 65 years old. I love it. Not here for the money, but for the mission. You make really good points and I have seen it for myself in the classroom. But it doesn’t mean I can’t set the bar high for student outcomes. You’re going to succeed no matter what you choose to do because you have a great sense of purpose and you’re incredibly intelligent. I can see you leading an Online University, although getting accreditation is likely an impossibility. Unless? What if? Keep doing what you are doing. New sub.
i'm going into my 4th year at a fancy canadian school (equivalent to an ivy league school) and everything you shared is very true here. i walked into university thinking after my education degree, i'd love being a prof. after learning about the stuff you shared, i think i'd rather do adult basic education or work in indigenous-controlled colleges.
Education has become a business and lecturers have demoted into yes-men workers instead of teaching critical thinking and posting challenges to tertiary students. What I do is circumvent the situation by working in corporate but I train & coach interns, work with universities to tell them what industry needs from the students & how the schools can better equip the students. Very often my students give me feedback that they learn way more with my mentorship than what they learn at the university. This is scary and shows how broken the system is if a brief internship becomes more valuable than 3-4 years of school.
As an engineering student the expectations part for like the complete reverse. Most the professors are really more interested in their research than teaching, same problem you mentioned about grad students and we're just kind of expected to learn most everything and adapt to new software almost entirely on our own. Like I feel I'm more paying for a structured timeline to do my own learning and a degree that proves I did that. Many of my class mates who end up doing just fine skip most lectures because they're largely useless