I just bought the CCS adapter and am excited to try it. My parents live in Canada in a border town. There is a supercharger on the US side, but the nearest SC on the Canadian side is an hour away. So when I visit them for a week I need charging options. An electrify Canada station was recently installed there, so this adapter is going to save me.
I'm so glad that you mentioned at the end about not all Teslas are equipt to support CCS1 adapters. A lot of people have been buying these adapters and finding out it doesn't work. There are DIY instructions online on how to swap out the charge port hardware to make it work, but it's risky. I believe the Tesla service center will also swap it for you but it's pretty expensive. Thanks again for the testing results!
I’ve been extremely happy with my CCS1 adapter. I was able to peak at 188kW on an EA station in Bristow, OK and it charged up my Model 3 super quick. If your car can support it, I highly highly recommend it.
Tom, you are always thorough and honest with your reviews, explaining the results and reasons for any variance that was unexpected. Couldn't ask for a fairer reviewer!!!
Hey, Tom. I just drove my 2021 Model 3 SR+ from Sacramento CA to Louisville, KY. I drove thru CA, AZ, NM, TX, OK, MS, and KY. Having the base model means I visited 1 or 2 more SuperChargers each day. Average of 500 miles per day. Average stop of 25-30 min. At no stop, in all those states, did I wait. Big city (LA area), small town, wide spot in the road. I drove up, backed in, plugged in and started charging. Two stops filled up while I was there, but the turnover seemed good. At one stop, there was one stall not working. Most of the time, if I wasn’t the only Tesla there, there were one or two others. Weekday, weekend, day, night… It made no difference. The week Before, my wife drove her 2021 VW ID.4 PRO from Sacramento to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. We are talking some remote roads through remote areas (Google map it). Yet, we had no problems. All but one charger was EA, and the other (a ChargePoint in Kanab UT) worked perfectly. In a few days, I am driving back to CA via a different route. I expect I’ll have similar results. Even in THE base model Tesla, a cross country trip is not only feasible… it’s quite a joy! Keep up the great work, Tom.
I took delivery of my new Model Y on 10/31/21 and my car is not CCS compatible. I understand that this had to do with the chip shortage and my car would need a minor hardware upgrade in order to use the CCS adapter. So you can’t just go by build date, you have to check in the car’s software as Tom showed. Great video!
Great information and testing Tom, this is good news for Tesla owners who are capable of using CCS adapter. Having more available charging stations is a wonderful thing.
Thank you for being so consistent and thorough. As far as I am concerned you are the authority on EV charging and its not even close. I bought my Wallbox charger a year ago on your recommendation and love it. This video as always was very informative and useful. I will likely be picking up one of these adapters
We do not have an EV yet, but I really appreciate your charging research. It will be very helpful for us when we get our first EV. Thanks Tom, Great Job again!
I On a recent trip to Lake Tahoe, I used the charge adapter included with my 2021 Model Y and plugged into the 115V every time I was back at my Airbnb. This was sufficient for the entire week. No special charging plug or dryer access. Many people don’t realize that they don’t drive enough miles per day to require DC Fast charging.
This is awesome! Got a subscriber out of me. I'm glad Electrify America is doing so well. Though I do kinda wish Tesla's connector had become the standard, because I think the connector itself is superior. I do have a feeling those discrepancies are due to cooling the cable, and it looks like EA is doing a great job of it if that's the case.
This is very shocking in a good way! I've only even seen a handful of Electrify American chargers so far and many times they are new and not actually operational yet. Definitely want to get one of these adapters though just to have that extra option during our road trips.
Nicely done. That's one thing most people don't understand. Tesla "superchargers" and Electrify America "chargers" are not actually chargers at all. They simply supply power to the car. The charger circuits are in the car.
That's not correct. They actually are chargers. They are DC fast chargers and they bypass the AC onboard charger and directly charge the battery. You are thinking about level 1 and level 2 AC charging. Those devices just supply power to the onboard charger which then sends the power to the battery. The chargers in this video are actually charging the vehicle by themselves.
Here in South Africa, like most countries, our voltage is 220-260V. As a result we are able to have plug and play chargers. You plug on a normal wall socket, no installation.
The main disadvantage of charging at a V3 station is that the actual connector is small, and it heats up significantly. One channel provider wrapped a wet washcloth around the hose to vehicle connector, and claims faster charging as a result. Even if the charging cable on a V3 is actively cooled, the connector is not.
Excellent testing as usual, Tom. FYI- I have a 2020 Model S LR+ and recently bought the CCS1 adapter as my Model S, manufactured in February 2020 is compatible. With free SC, I only have the adapter as a backup for traveling where there are no Superchargers in range which is pretty rare these days. I did test it out and found the charging curve to be about the same as the V3. However, I don't run down to zero and charge to 100%. Usually 15% to 60% for long trips. I do understand your testing which is not how one would normally drive on a road trip. My 2+ year old Model S has a calculated range now of 387miles. When new it was 402 miles. I've been considering doing your cell balancing test at some point to see if that improves my calculated range. Some time if you can it would be great for a test on a Model S LR+.
Hi Tom, I like these types of vids, thank you! What would be great: - give us a TLDR. My takeaway was Electrify was a smidge better What I didn't learn: - cost differences? - nav integration for TSLA or Ford?
Fantastic. Every one should have an adapter. While most charge at home it's about getting those apartment living EV drivers charged. That's a huge market. And everyone that doesn't have a home has to go get charged. And no one wants to wait around to charge. Special if it's not covered Parking, no bathrooms and no snacks to buy while waiting. Plus i'd like to see all those other EVs. Like going to a car show only EV car show. We need a gas station NO A charging station.
Jonathan - have you seen the charging stations being deployed in the UK? Lots of covered chargers in one location, plus a lounge! They’re called Gridserve. Likely US versions - or similar - coming as EV sales pick up.
This is awesome. I don’t own an EV but follow the market pretty closely. Anyway, I have been wondering for a while now why Tesla owners don’t just hop over to the other networks when they are so backed up especially on holidays. This video confirms my suspicions - there is no reason! Maybe the adapter you’re talking about wasn’t available before. Hopefully this will help with upcoming holidays! Nothing like long lines at a supercharger to close people off to the idea of owning any EV.
@E S true, the infrastructure is shoddy at best. Again, strictly as an observer…currently not my problem. But by the time it is, I reckon it will be much better.
This is only the first step in Tesla opening up the charging network. Looking forward to plugging in my new Ioniq at a Supercharger with this reverse version of this adapter.
Love these videos! I am an EV and data nerd so these are a good fix. We have a 2022 Model 3 LR with almost 17k miles on it in about 7 months. I was considering a road trips to some more remote places and the CCS adapter could come in handy. I have opted for something a little closer as I can’t be sure I would get the adapter in time from S Korea. I do wish Tesla would go ahead and release the adapter here in the US for the cars that are enabled (I checked and mine is). Before this I had an 2021 3 SR+ and several years ago I had a BMW i3 REx which got me addicted to EVs. Now I am trying to talk my wife into an Ioniq 5. That 800volt charging speed in Hi5 looks amazing but the lack of CCS in the Midsouth is still a big issue for us. Somebody tell EA they need a charger between Memphis and Birmingham on I22! I have filed 3 petitions but they seem to not understand that they are missing a key corridor connecting millions of people from the West through Midsouth down to the Deep South and Florida. Anyway appreciate your videos and charts as always. Super helpful!
So true about home charging. I've owned my EV for nearly 5 years and drive just under 100 miles each day. I've never needed to use a public charging facility. Most commuters with daily commutes of less than 250 miles (like nearly everyone on this planet), will never need to use a public charger unless going on a very long road trip. Refueling at home is a major advantage. Think about it. If you have an ICE vehicle and had a gasoline pump in your driveway, how often would you need to visit a gasoline station?
15:25 This data seems to validate that Tesla owner's claims that he was actually able to travel across the country faster using the CCS1 adapter and Electrify America than he was able to do while using the Superchargers.
@@ryanhuber8629 any concerns that Tesla may be doing this to preserve the battery (eg sneakily having more battery but not charging into it and then cycling cells like modern ssd storage does)? I've done the rough math on my M3 awd and it seems I don't have "access" to roughly 3 kwh
Thanks for the review I was looking at purchasing one of these. As far as the install of a charging station at home, it's not complicated at all. Took me less than 30 minutes to install a Tesla wall charger. It doesn't even need a GFCI breaker as Tesla has already Incorporated that into the charging station. Three wires, some conduit and just a little bit of an electrical knowledge will save you a lot of money. If somebody doesn't feel comfortable, definitely hire someone. But if you have a little bit of electrical common sense it's easy.
Just subscribed to your channel as my interest for an EV is increasing. I’ve watched dozens of videos and I’m embarrassed to say I still can’t absorb all the numbers and measurements, and what they mean. Because you seem to be the most comprehensive and thorough channel in terms of EV's, It would be incredible if you could do a video like 'EV's for beginners' going over what all the terms are, maybe comparing 3 or 4 car's ratings side by side, giving the highs and lows of what to look for in battery ratings, charging, the difference in a slow charging car like the Bolt VS. a EV6. Just when I think I know about EV's a new term is used. Some people refer to charging in Watts vs. kilowatts? Or is it Amps? Or Volts? Ugh! LOL. Seems like I’m more confused than ever. I bet that type of video would be so helpful to us beginners. If not, thanks for doing what you do👍
Great data. I think this gives Tesla another reason to switch to CCS in North America eventually. Releasing the CCS1 adapter is a way for them to experiment.
I took a trip last year (about 600km each way), and then repeated the same trip this year at about the same time of year, so ambient temperature similar. the supercharging stops where much shorter (like half?.) I think Tesla has been fine tuning their charging strategies, and that your new V3 test might turn out quite different.
There are also people who rent out their adapters. $5/day vs $400-500 purchase and import. I bought mine for a trip and now will rent it out in Canada. Many Tesla clubs rent out the CHAdeMO that will work on any Tesla.
If you plotted kWh vs time, instead of percent full vs time, it would largely compensate for the difference in capacity now vs a year ago. But it will be even more accurate to simply repeat the V3 charge test with the car as it is now, with a modest reduction in capacity.
As Elon said "Best to install a TESLA wall connector before you get your vehicle" ... Fast Charging is for most folk ... currently ideal, that's more than enough, for a rest and a drink etc .... good insight video my US friend ... Green energy love from the UK !
Have the early 2020 Model 3 with no CCS support. Good video. Haven't really found the need for other chargers beyond superchargers, after 70k miles. Sold my Chademo adapter a year ago.
Tom. I do hope that Tesla will provide a way for CCS vehicles to utilize their network very soon before Teslas absorb the rather limited number of plugs available on the CCS network.
February 18th UPDATE: Tesla's store now $ells the adapter for $175. It's rated up to 250KWH. Caveats: You must be a Tesla owner, and your car must be equipped with the Gen4 Charging computer from the factory. That leaves out most, if not all, Model 3'a manufactured prior to 2020. Retrofits will be available from Tesla - eventually The website says: Note: For vehicles requiring a retrofit, please check back in early 2023 for availability. I did that, and was told that the local service center does not yet have a date for the retrofit.
Great video Tom. You mentioned about KWh delivered being higher on V3 vs CCS1. The reasons you state are logical. But there is one other potential factor. The heat loss might be higher on the V3 due to the higher charge rates (less charging efficiency).
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney You would be surprised. (sorry long response but I think it's worth it) The reason the charge curve on the V3 dips below the CCS1 after hitting it's peak is because of thermal throttling. That heat is from charging losses. While a notable amount of loss is from capacitive and inductive losses at high charge speeds most of the loss will be resistive. Resistive loss is exponentially proportional to the charging current squared. You mention in your video that the CCS1 connector is rated 400A. But to hit that power level it appears to be allowing ~500A. Tesla V3 superchargers are pushing ~650A to hit 250KW. The resistive losses at 650A are roughly 69% higher than 500A and that's assuming that resistance stays equal (which it doesn't). At the higher amperage resistance would also increase due to the thermal coefficient of the materials used increasing the difference in losses even more. So in reality I would hypothesize that the resistive losses might actually be closer to 75% higher at 650A than 500A due to increased internal resistance. Now you also mention 5mins. This number is more significant that you know. I work in product development for a company that makes electrical heating appliances. 5 minutes is the rule of thumb for devices to heat soak under high current initial loads (and is often used in certification standards). This if often used for both in-rush (inductive) and start-up (resistive) current effects. I suspect that the Tesla Model 3 internal components are not actually sized to handle 650A. But can exceed amperage for about 5 minutes before components start to heat soak. This same effect I also believe is present on the Mustang Mach-E which also sees a charging spike to 150KW for about 5 minutes before falling off. I personally believe that the Model 3 charge rate is more for marketing purposes so that Tesla can allow it's customers to advocate a 250KW peak charge rate while if they decreased the peak charging current they could likely find a more optimal average balance.
Great video.But, as you said, to have a fair comparison you need to retest the V3 SuC charge curve now. Having said that, it looks to me as if the whole 250 kW trick is only a pure PR thing, as the car charges at least as fast if it stays below 180kW. On my opinion, the thermals of the battery limit the whole charging curve. With the v2 charger, I don’t see any reason why the car should throttle as it does, I think that in this case some parts of the charger are the ones that throttle. If I remember well those v2s had a max rate of 120 kW at the beginning. And a last point, I’ve heard that over here in Europe the M3 does only a max rate of 170-180kW on a non Tesla high power charger, but without knowing the truth light of the charging session, I thought that it would take longer on a non Tesla charger than on a v3. It seems that it shouldn’t be the case. Thank you for the very informative videos. 👍
This is good content, although I’m really looking forward to seeing how quickly my BMW i4 charges at a Tesla supercharger when the hardware is opened up to non-Teslas :)
Meh, the Tesla SC are often crowded with all the Tesla’s sold. Just be satisfied that you have a better assembled car, and move on. Not worth the effort IMHO.
@@thegreeneyej Most of the Tesla SC in the Midwest US are empty (or close to empty) most of the time. Also, in rural areas (where DCFC is almost non-existent) there are available Tesla SC stations just waiting to be used. It is time to open them up. Tesla would be crazy to give up that additional revenue.
Keep in mind, there is a reason Tesla only allows the V3 chargers to charge along the charging curve it does. Tesla has the data that determines their charge curves. Of course, I only allow Tesla service to perform any thing other than routine service.
Great video Tom, I still believe that the tesla supercharger is the best. Reliable and everywhere. This also has to do with teslas charging system in their cars, it's above the rest.
I got my CCS adapter, I only will use it only as a backup to SuperChargers on road trips. But I'm still leery of all the other DCFC sites being FULLY OPERATIONAL that I can count on 4/7 365.
If you live in a apartment complex most don’t have charging stations. There have been 3 new apartments here in east side of Jefferson county ( Louisville) that were just built and none have charging stations
Public charging networks need reciprocity agreements like cell phone networks did a long time ago. Travelers having to have an "account" on every one of them will just never work. At the very least an abstracted payment method like PayPal would help.
That’s the way things work in Europe. You have CPO (Charge Point Operators) like EA and EMP (Electro Mobility Provider). With an account at one EMP you have access to many CPO, but still not everyone, and some EMPs have even constant kWh prices no mater where you charge.
@@JorgTheElder As long as that works great. But remember most are unattended so it's not easy to get help. Also, I expect chargers to be a target for criminals skimming cards because they are unattended.
I just started looking into EVs so I could be totally off, but perhaps it kept changing to add the extra battery life you get when you're driving and the battery charge indicates O%. I'm referring to the reserve that the car doesn't measure. Gr8 vid. 🚙 🇺🇸
Does the Tesla dash compensate for cable losses to try and indicate what is delivered from the charger (what you pay for)? If so the calculations may be a bit off because of the adapter. Also my guess is the extra energy was charging part of the pack that is unavailable to the user. It's pretty well known that Tesla limits the output from the battery pack using software.
Great video Tom, nice charts! Is it possible to find out if older Teslas can be retrofitted to accept the CCS1 adapter? And if so how difficult and costly it is?
Tesla did offer a kit for European Model S/X in order to be able to charge from a CCS2 station. As it uses the same protocol it should work also in the states, but I don’t think that Tesla will sell it to you. The price, if I remember correctly, was about 150€/$.
There is no Official retrofit kit through Tesla at the Moment. But supposedly one on the way at some point. There is a DIY workaround though thanks to someone on TMC doing the leg work. It requires updating to the Gen 4 Charge port ECU $ 140.00 and a small harness adapter available on EBAY $84. CCS1 to Tesla adapter is $307ish from S.Korea. Lastly it requires reinstalling the current software or waiting for Tesla to push the next Software update. This is required for the New ECU to be recognized otherwise the car won’t charge. I am going through this process now on my 2018 M3p. I have all the parts, just waiting for the Software to update. You must install the ECU just before the software install for it to be recognized.
Tesla isn't officially selling them in the US yet so you need to buy one from a reseller. They do sell them in Korea, so people are buying them and importing them for resale here.
Thanks for another great video! Do you think Tesla will ever do a retrofit for pre 2020 model 3's, or possibly add the needed hardware to a special adaptor for "legacy" cars? I have an early 2020 Sr+ and it would seem ridiculous to change it just for CCS capability. Intend to keep my 2020 for a lot longer. Will keep my eyes on your channel with the hope that you will cover the event should Tesla offer CCS to us "legacy" owners. Thanks again for your great efforts in EV adoption, education and promotion!
My 2021 (sept 21 build) MYP doesn’t have the ability to use the CCS adapter. I would mention for folks to check before purchase. Tesla isn’t offering retrofits yet.
I bought one and got some good speeds at the Baker, CA station. The only negitive was that a guy yelled at me to go use the Tesla stations. Some people will not like you charging with this thing.
You should try the EVgo 350kw chargers. As long as I don't have another car sharing the charger, I'm getting the fastest charge compared to Tesla or EA.
@@0HOON0 I don’t think so. You don’t hear of any lines at EA chargers. Teslas far out number all other EVs, so far, and I think superchargers will still be the first choice for Tesla owners. Let’s wait and see when Tom does his current V3 test. That will be telling.
It could be that there is an area of the battery not being reported and the statin is charging that area. It could be that since the car is on and systems are drawing power the charging station is just keeping the battery charged why those systems within the car are pulling power. It could be like with a cellphone where even though it's at 100% it has protection builtin to avoid over-charging so it kinda stops charging then as the systems use some power and gets to a particular set point it starts chagrin again.... Or maybe it's a combination of everything.
My 2018 LR charges near 250kw until 20% then evenly tapers to be at 150kw at 50%. And thats in 100 degree weather. your car has an issue, overheating at the high charge rates
I don't have any answers, but I want to corroborate the same experience of hitting 100% and having the car still take charge for a while before it truly says "charging complete". I know it takes more and more energy to get a battery full, the closer to 100% SOC, so I'm guessing it has to waste the energy to get the battery full as it lowers amperage as the battery is more and more full and raises the voltage from ~360V up to ~390V when the battery is almost full
The difference is the balance charging of the cells. The reduced input charge rate on all EV’ as is when the charge system hits say 90% then it continues to take input voltage but is balance charging. The difference is the input can only be as high as the charging system can discharge the cells to keep “filling “ the low cells and NOT over charging the full packs. This is why the difference and why some Wav’s have a faster rate from 90% to 100%.
I just bought the CCS adapter and am excited to try it. My parents live in Canada in a border town. There is a supercharger on the US side, but the nearest SC on the Canadian side is an hour away. So when I visit them for a week I need charging options. An electrify Canada station was recently installed there, so this adapter is going to save me.
Tom, I love that you answer the important questions with sufficient detail to understand the process and the pros and cons. Excellent work.
Excellent video ! And excellent advice to install chargers only with professionals.
I'm so glad that you mentioned at the end about not all Teslas are equipt to support CCS1 adapters. A lot of people have been buying these adapters and finding out it doesn't work. There are DIY instructions online on how to swap out the charge port hardware to make it work, but it's risky. I believe the Tesla service center will also swap it for you but it's pretty expensive. Thanks again for the testing results!
I’ve been extremely happy with my CCS1 adapter. I was able to peak at 188kW on an EA station in Bristow, OK and it charged up my Model 3 super quick.
If your car can support it, I highly highly recommend it.
The "E.A." initials: what do they stand for in the UK? "Electrify Anglia?"
Tom, you are always thorough and honest with your reviews, explaining the results and reasons for any variance that was unexpected. Couldn't ask for a fairer reviewer!!!
Hey, Tom. I just drove my 2021 Model 3 SR+ from Sacramento CA to Louisville, KY. I drove thru CA, AZ, NM, TX, OK, MS, and KY. Having the base model means I visited 1 or 2 more SuperChargers each day. Average of 500 miles per day. Average stop of 25-30 min.
At no stop, in all those states, did I wait. Big city (LA area), small town, wide spot in the road. I drove up, backed in, plugged in and started charging. Two stops filled up while I was there, but the turnover seemed good. At one stop, there was one stall not working. Most of the time, if I wasn’t the only Tesla there, there were one or two others. Weekday, weekend, day, night… It made no difference.
The week Before, my wife drove her 2021 VW ID.4 PRO from Sacramento to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. We are talking some remote roads through remote areas (Google map it). Yet, we had no problems. All but one charger was EA, and the other (a ChargePoint in Kanab UT) worked perfectly.
In a few days, I am driving back to CA via a different route. I expect I’ll have similar results. Even in THE base model Tesla, a cross country trip is not only feasible… it’s quite a joy!
Keep up the great work, Tom.
I took delivery of my new Model Y on 10/31/21 and my car is not CCS compatible. I understand that this had to do with the chip shortage and my car would need a minor hardware upgrade in order to use the CCS adapter. So you can’t just go by build date, you have to check in the car’s software as Tom showed. Great video!
Did you get a discount because it was missing features?
@@stephenholland5930 No, presumably because this is not something that Tesla represented that my car would have when I ordered it.
As always, a no nonsense, no ego, very informative video. Thanks Tom.
Great information and testing Tom, this is good news for Tesla owners who are capable of using CCS adapter. Having more available charging stations is a wonderful thing.
Thank you for being so consistent and thorough. As far as I am concerned you are the authority on EV charging and its not even close. I bought my Wallbox charger a year ago on your recommendation and love it. This video as always was very informative and useful. I will likely be picking up one of these adapters
We do not have an EV yet, but I really appreciate your charging research. It will be very helpful for us when we get our first EV. Thanks Tom, Great Job again!
I
On a recent trip to Lake Tahoe, I used the charge adapter included with my 2021 Model Y and plugged into the 115V every time I was back at my Airbnb. This was sufficient for the entire week. No special charging plug or dryer access. Many people don’t realize that they don’t drive enough miles per day to require DC Fast charging.
I find your numbers fascinating Tom. Thank you so much for your efforts!
This is awesome! Got a subscriber out of me.
I'm glad Electrify America is doing so well. Though I do kinda wish Tesla's connector had become the standard, because I think the connector itself is superior.
I do have a feeling those discrepancies are due to cooling the cable, and it looks like EA is doing a great job of it if that's the case.
This is very shocking in a good way! I've only even seen a handful of Electrify American chargers so far and many times they are new and not actually operational yet. Definitely want to get one of these adapters though just to have that extra option during our road trips.
Very interesting - did not expect that result! thank you for sharing.
Nicely done. That's one thing most people don't understand. Tesla "superchargers" and Electrify America "chargers" are not actually chargers at all. They simply supply power to the car. The charger circuits are in the car.
That's not correct. They actually are chargers. They are DC fast chargers and they bypass the AC onboard charger and directly charge the battery. You are thinking about level 1 and level 2 AC charging. Those devices just supply power to the onboard charger which then sends the power to the battery. The chargers in this video are actually charging the vehicle by themselves.
Was waiting for this video! Excellent information thank you!
Here in South Africa, like most countries, our voltage is 220-260V. As a result we are able to have plug and play chargers. You plug on a normal wall socket, no installation.
The main disadvantage of charging at a V3 station is that the actual connector is small, and it heats up significantly. One channel provider wrapped a wet washcloth around the hose to vehicle connector, and claims faster charging as a result. Even if the charging cable on a V3 is actively cooled, the connector is not.
Excellent testing as usual, Tom. FYI- I have a 2020 Model S LR+ and recently bought the CCS1 adapter as my Model S, manufactured in February 2020 is compatible. With free SC, I only have the adapter as a backup for traveling where there are no Superchargers in range which is pretty rare these days. I did test it out and found the charging curve to be about the same as the V3. However, I don't run down to zero and charge to 100%. Usually 15% to 60% for long trips. I do understand your testing which is not how one would normally drive on a road trip. My 2+ year old Model S has a calculated range now of 387miles. When new it was 402 miles. I've been considering doing your cell balancing test at some point to see if that improves my calculated range. Some time if you can it would be great for a test on a Model S LR+.
Hi Tom, I like these types of vids, thank you!
What would be great:
- give us a TLDR. My takeaway was Electrify was a smidge better
What I didn't learn:
- cost differences?
- nav integration for TSLA or Ford?
🐢The tortoise beat the hare.🐇 Will be interesting to see the rematch. Great job.‼️
Fantastic. Every one should have an adapter. While most charge at home it's about getting those apartment living EV drivers charged. That's a huge market. And everyone that doesn't have a home has to go get charged. And no one wants to wait around to charge. Special if it's not covered Parking, no bathrooms and no snacks to buy while waiting. Plus i'd like to see all those other EVs. Like going to a car show only EV car show. We need a gas station NO A charging station.
Jonathan - have you seen the charging stations being deployed in the UK? Lots of covered chargers in one location, plus a lounge! They’re called Gridserve. Likely US versions - or similar - coming as EV sales pick up.
Not bad at all. Very nice curve. Almost as good as an EQS.
This is a game changer! Makes out frequent road trips to LA even easier with the Model 3. Big amount of places to charge.
this is probably the most detailed test I've found! thank you for your time and effort! VERY helpful!
Tom, that was a great video! I had always thought that the Tesla V3 super changes were much better than everyone else.
There are V4 SuperChargers on the way... Who knows when.
Very informative! Gotta get one of these adapters. Unfortunately, I first need to upgrade my Model 3 to accept CCS charges. Bummer.
Send the bill to Elon.
Excluding the cost of the adapter, in California an EA subscription could save money as Tesla increased the rates at peak times.
Great video. Had similar results in my testing.
This is awesome. I don’t own an EV but follow the market pretty closely. Anyway, I have been wondering for a while now why Tesla owners don’t just hop over to the other networks when they are so backed up especially on holidays. This video confirms my suspicions - there is no reason! Maybe the adapter you’re talking about wasn’t available before. Hopefully this will help with upcoming holidays! Nothing like long lines at a supercharger to close people off to the idea of owning any EV.
@E S true, the infrastructure is shoddy at best. Again, strictly as an observer…currently not my problem. But by the time it is, I reckon it will be much better.
This is only the first step in Tesla opening up the charging network. Looking forward to plugging in my new Ioniq at a Supercharger with this reverse version of this adapter.
Love these videos! I am an EV and data nerd so these are a good fix. We have a 2022 Model 3 LR with almost 17k miles on it in about 7 months. I was considering a road trips to some more remote places and the CCS adapter could come in handy. I have opted for something a little closer as I can’t be sure I would get the adapter in time from S Korea. I do wish Tesla would go ahead and release the adapter here in the US for the cars that are enabled (I checked and mine is). Before this I had an 2021 3 SR+ and several years ago I had a BMW i3 REx which got me addicted to EVs. Now I am trying to talk my wife into an Ioniq 5. That 800volt charging speed in Hi5 looks amazing but the lack of CCS in the Midsouth is still a big issue for us. Somebody tell EA they need a charger between Memphis and Birmingham on I22! I have filed 3 petitions but they seem to not understand that they are missing a key corridor connecting millions of people from the West through Midsouth down to the Deep South and Florida. Anyway appreciate your videos and charts as always. Super helpful!
Great review
Looking forward to a updated V3 supercharging session
Awesome tests Tom... Great stuff!
So true about home charging. I've owned my EV for nearly 5 years and drive just under 100 miles each day. I've never needed to use a public charging facility. Most commuters with daily commutes of less than 250 miles (like nearly everyone on this planet), will never need to use a public charger unless going on a very long road trip. Refueling at home is a major advantage. Think about it. If you have an ICE vehicle and had a gasoline pump in your driveway, how often would you need to visit a gasoline station?
I live in an apartment and charge on public charging and still prefer it ICE.
I take a round trip of 800 miles every month when I visit my daughter and family. I guess I'm not the norm!
@@gmv0553 No you are not the norm. You are odd.
@@gmv0553 - but there’s probably a way that an EV could work for you.
On the ranch we do have gasoline and diesel pump “on the driveway,” but that is unusual. We do have one electric tractor.
15:25 This data seems to validate that Tesla owner's claims that he was actually able to travel across the country faster using the CCS1 adapter and Electrify America than he was able to do while using the Superchargers.
I'm that owner. Hi. :)
@@ryanhuber8629 Sweet! Thanks for posting your experiences!
@@ryanhuber8629 any concerns that Tesla may be doing this to preserve the battery (eg sneakily having more battery but not charging into it and then cycling cells like modern ssd storage does)? I've done the rough math on my M3 awd and it seems I don't have "access" to roughly 3 kwh
Good stuff as usual. As always, I appreciate the guidance you give to new EV owners.
I think Tesla's charging curve has improved some since your initial V3 test too.
We'll find out soon
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney Excited to see it.
Another great video Tom, keep them coming.
Thanks for the review I was looking at purchasing one of these. As far as the install of a charging station at home, it's not complicated at all. Took me less than 30 minutes to install a Tesla wall charger. It doesn't even need a GFCI breaker as Tesla has already Incorporated that into the charging station. Three wires, some conduit and just a little bit of an electrical knowledge will save you a lot of money. If somebody doesn't feel comfortable, definitely hire someone. But if you have a little bit of electrical common sense it's easy.
Just subscribed to your channel as my interest for an EV is increasing. I’ve watched dozens of videos and I’m embarrassed to say I still can’t absorb all the numbers and measurements, and what they mean. Because you seem to be the most comprehensive and thorough channel in terms of EV's, It would be incredible if you could do a video like 'EV's for beginners' going over what all the terms are, maybe comparing 3 or 4 car's ratings side by side, giving the highs and lows of what to look for in battery ratings, charging, the difference in a slow charging car like the Bolt VS. a EV6. Just when I think I know about EV's a new term is used. Some people refer to charging in Watts vs. kilowatts? Or is it Amps? Or Volts? Ugh! LOL.
Seems like I’m more confused than ever. I bet that type of video would be so helpful to us beginners. If not, thanks for doing what you do👍
Charging power is in kW. Battery capacity is in kWh. Consumption in the UK is in miles/kWh.
This was very helpful information. Thanks.
Great data. I think this gives Tesla another reason to switch to CCS in North America eventually. Releasing the CCS1 adapter is a way for them to experiment.
I took a trip last year (about 600km each way), and then repeated the same trip this year at about the same time of year, so ambient temperature similar. the supercharging stops where much shorter (like half?.) I think Tesla has been fine tuning their charging strategies, and that your new V3 test might turn out quite different.
Good point
Gotta love the exhaust pops in the beginning of the video. Sounded like a Hyundai Veloster N.
There are also people who rent out their adapters. $5/day vs $400-500 purchase and import. I bought mine for a trip and now will rent it out in Canada. Many Tesla clubs rent out the CHAdeMO that will work on any Tesla.
If you plotted kWh vs time, instead of percent full vs time, it would largely compensate for the difference in capacity now vs a year ago. But it will be even more accurate to simply repeat the V3 charge test with the car as it is now, with a modest reduction in capacity.
As Elon said "Best to install a TESLA wall connector before you get your vehicle" ... Fast Charging is for most folk ... currently ideal, that's more than enough, for a rest and a drink etc .... good insight video my US friend ... Green energy love from the UK !
Super Great video 👍🏼
That speed is amazing! I have mine, it’s in a case in the car. Haven’t tried it yet.
Have the early 2020 Model 3 with no CCS support. Good video. Haven't really found the need for other chargers beyond superchargers, after 70k miles. Sold my Chademo adapter a year ago.
Electrify America is one of the best DC super chargers.
Tom. I do hope that Tesla will provide a way for CCS vehicles to utilize their network very soon before Teslas absorb the rather limited number of plugs available on the CCS network.
I do believe they will
The CCS network is growing pretty quickly.
Thank you, Tom!
I hope Tesla will offer a retro fit for older cars to enable the adapter use.
When all the stars align and you can find a 350 KW charger that works the EQS can charge 15-90% in 40 minutes.
February 18th UPDATE: Tesla's store now $ells the adapter for $175. It's rated up to 250KWH. Caveats: You must be a Tesla owner, and your car must be equipped with the Gen4 Charging computer from the factory. That leaves out most, if not all, Model 3'a manufactured prior to 2020. Retrofits will be available from Tesla - eventually The website says: Note: For vehicles requiring a retrofit, please check back in early 2023 for availability. I did that, and was told that the local service center does not yet have a date for the retrofit.
Great! Now do the same test again with a CCS car, like a Bolt, once they open up the US superchargers to other cars. Like they’re planning.
Usually I try to charge to 50-60% before continuing if I can, it saves tons of time road tripping
Great information on finding CCS support in settings. I wonder if my X has it...
Also, sub'ed
Great video Tom. You mentioned about KWh delivered being higher on V3 vs CCS1. The reasons you state are logical. But there is one other potential factor. The heat loss might be higher on the V3 due to the higher charge rates (less charging efficiency).
Yeah, but it only charges at a higher rate than the CCS1 adapter for like 5 minutes, so that's not long enough to really have that much loss
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney You would be surprised. (sorry long response but I think it's worth it) The reason the charge curve on the V3 dips below the CCS1 after hitting it's peak is because of thermal throttling. That heat is from charging losses. While a notable amount of loss is from capacitive and inductive losses at high charge speeds most of the loss will be resistive. Resistive loss is exponentially proportional to the charging current squared. You mention in your video that the CCS1 connector is rated 400A. But to hit that power level it appears to be allowing ~500A. Tesla V3 superchargers are pushing ~650A to hit 250KW. The resistive losses at 650A are roughly 69% higher than 500A and that's assuming that resistance stays equal (which it doesn't). At the higher amperage resistance would also increase due to the thermal coefficient of the materials used increasing the difference in losses even more. So in reality I would hypothesize that the resistive losses might actually be closer to 75% higher at 650A than 500A due to increased internal resistance. Now you also mention 5mins. This number is more significant that you know. I work in product development for a company that makes electrical heating appliances. 5 minutes is the rule of thumb for devices to heat soak under high current initial loads (and is often used in certification standards). This if often used for both in-rush (inductive) and start-up (resistive) current effects. I suspect that the Tesla Model 3 internal components are not actually sized to handle 650A. But can exceed amperage for about 5 minutes before components start to heat soak. This same effect I also believe is present on the Mustang Mach-E which also sees a charging spike to 150KW for about 5 minutes before falling off. I personally believe that the Model 3 charge rate is more for marketing purposes so that Tesla can allow it's customers to advocate a 250KW peak charge rate while if they decreased the peak charging current they could likely find a more optimal average balance.
Great video!
Great video.But, as you said, to have a fair comparison you need to retest the V3 SuC charge curve now. Having said that, it looks to me as if the whole 250 kW trick is only a pure PR thing, as the car charges at least as fast if it stays below 180kW. On my opinion, the thermals of the battery limit the whole charging curve.
With the v2 charger, I don’t see any reason why the car should throttle as it does, I think that in this case some parts of the charger are the ones that throttle. If I remember well those v2s had a max rate of 120 kW at the beginning.
And a last point, I’ve heard that over here in Europe the M3 does only a max rate of 170-180kW on a non Tesla high power charger, but without knowing the truth light of the charging session, I thought that it would take longer on a non Tesla charger than on a v3. It seems that it shouldn’t be the case.
Thank you for the very informative videos. 👍
I'm doing the new test this week
Congratulations! You found a EA charger that works.
I charge at EA 2x per week for the last 2 years. Never left a station without charging
This is good content, although I’m really looking forward to seeing how quickly my BMW i4 charges at a Tesla supercharger when the hardware is opened up to non-Teslas :)
Meh, the Tesla SC are often crowded with all the Tesla’s sold. Just be satisfied that you have a better assembled car, and move on. Not worth the effort IMHO.
@@thegreeneyej Most of the Tesla SC in the Midwest US are empty (or close to empty) most of the time. Also, in rural areas (where DCFC is almost non-existent) there are available Tesla SC stations just waiting to be used. It is time to open them up. Tesla would be crazy to give up that additional revenue.
Keep in mind, there is a reason Tesla only allows the V3 chargers to charge along the charging curve it does. Tesla has the data that determines their charge curves. Of course, I only allow Tesla service to perform any thing other than routine service.
Great video Tom, I still believe that the tesla supercharger is the best.
Reliable and everywhere.
This also has to do with teslas charging system in their cars, it's above the rest.
I got my CCS adapter, I only will use it only as a backup to SuperChargers on road trips. But I'm still leery of all the other DCFC sites being FULLY OPERATIONAL that I can count on 4/7 365.
If you live in a apartment complex most don’t have charging stations. There have been 3 new apartments here in east side of Jefferson county ( Louisville) that were just built and none have charging stations
I wish they can put more charging stations in Pinole and Hercules California and Richmond
Public charging networks need reciprocity agreements like cell phone networks did a long time ago. Travelers having to have an "account" on every one of them will just never work. At the very least an abstracted payment method like PayPal would help.
This x 1,000
Not necessarily true. EA and EVgo stations have credit card readers. So yes, you need a form of payment, but you don't need an account to use them.
That’s the way things work in Europe. You have CPO (Charge Point Operators) like EA and EMP (Electro Mobility Provider). With an account at one EMP you have access to many CPO, but still not everyone, and some EMPs have even constant kWh prices no mater where you charge.
@@JorgTheElder As long as that works great. But remember most are unattended so it's not easy to get help. Also, I expect chargers to be a target for criminals skimming cards because they are unattended.
You need to redo an updated V3 curve. It charge way faster than you old.
Doing that this week
I just started looking into EVs so I could be totally off, but perhaps it kept changing to add the extra battery life you get when you're driving and the battery charge indicates O%. I'm referring to the reserve that the car doesn't measure. Gr8 vid. 🚙 🇺🇸
Does the Tesla dash compensate for cable losses to try and indicate what is delivered from the charger (what you pay for)? If so the calculations may be a bit off because of the adapter. Also my guess is the extra energy was charging part of the pack that is unavailable to the user. It's pretty well known that Tesla limits the output from the battery pack using software.
Great video Tom, nice charts! Is it possible to find out if older Teslas can be retrofitted to accept the CCS1 adapter? And if so how difficult and costly it is?
Tesla did offer a kit for European Model S/X in order to be able to charge from a CCS2 station. As it uses the same protocol it should work also in the states, but I don’t think that Tesla will sell it to you.
The price, if I remember correctly, was about 150€/$.
There is no Official retrofit kit through Tesla at the Moment. But supposedly one on the way at some point. There is a DIY workaround though thanks to someone on TMC doing the leg work. It requires updating to the Gen 4 Charge port ECU $ 140.00 and a small harness adapter available on EBAY $84. CCS1 to Tesla adapter is $307ish from S.Korea. Lastly it requires reinstalling the current software or waiting for Tesla to push the next Software update. This is required for the New ECU to be recognized otherwise the car won’t charge. I am going through this process now on my 2018 M3p. I have all the parts, just waiting for the Software to update. You must install the ECU just before the software install for it to be recognized.
@@dennisschlieckau8723 Thanks for the info. Sounds way over my head though.
A wet cloth on the V2 cable plug would be a test option to get the correct curve.
I used a wet rag (that was in my ice chest first) when I recorded that session.
What is the URL to order the CCS1 adapter for a Tesla?
Tesla isn't officially selling them in the US yet so you need to buy one from a reseller. They do sell them in Korea, so people are buying them and importing them for resale here.
This is great! Just curious - Is there a reason why Tesla is not selling the Tesla-to-CCS1 adapter in the United States yet?
Please also provide the costs of EA vs Tesla!
Here in NJ, I pay $0.31 per kWh on Electrify America (and $4 per month) and $0.36 per kWh for Tesla Supercharging.
Thanks for another great video! Do you think Tesla will ever do a retrofit for pre 2020 model 3's, or possibly add the needed hardware to a special adaptor for "legacy" cars? I have an early 2020 Sr+ and it would seem ridiculous to change it just for CCS capability. Intend to keep my 2020 for a lot longer. Will keep my eyes on your channel with the hope that you will cover the event should Tesla offer CCS to us "legacy" owners. Thanks again for your great efforts in EV adoption, education and promotion!
My 2021 (sept 21 build) MYP doesn’t have the ability to use the CCS adapter. I would mention for folks to check before purchase. Tesla isn’t offering retrofits yet.
I do just that at the end of the video.
@@StateOfChargeWithTomMoloughney my bad, I commented in the beginning. Thanks!
Odd as our MY we got in Sep 21 is ccs enabled. I wonder why some do while others don’t.
I bought one and got some good speeds at the Baker, CA station. The only negitive was that a guy yelled at me to go use the Tesla stations. Some people will not like you charging with this thing.
You should try the EVgo 350kw chargers. As long as I don't have another car sharing the charger, I'm getting the fastest charge compared to Tesla or EA.
On Out of Spec he said that there’s a hidden reserve to help you get to the charger if you hit zero before you make it there
There is on just about every EV.
Great now all the Tesla drivers will be at CCS (EA) Chargers. That does not help unless Tesla opens there network to CCS.
Sure it does. It will make more superchargers available to older cars like mine that can’t use the adapter.
Four model 3s will come and go in the time it takes to charge a single bZ4X.
@@petebremy49 I believe Craig was pointing out that this development is rough for owners of non Tesla EVs.
@@0HOON0 I don’t think so. You don’t hear of any lines at EA chargers. Teslas far out number all other EVs, so far, and I think superchargers will still be the first choice for Tesla owners. Let’s wait and see when Tom does his current V3 test. That will be telling.
There is a small reserve on all Tesla's after you charge to 100% 🤗 , it's like an ICE car, they have a tiny reserve tank after "0"
Not just Tesla's - that's true with all EVs.
It could be that there is an area of the battery not being reported and the statin is charging that area. It could be that since the car is on and systems are drawing power the charging station is just keeping the battery charged why those systems within the car are pulling power. It could be like with a cellphone where even though it's at 100% it has protection builtin to avoid over-charging so it kinda stops charging then as the systems use some power and gets to a particular set point it starts chagrin again.... Or maybe it's a combination of everything.
My 2018 LR charges near 250kw until 20% then evenly tapers to be at 150kw at 50%. And thats in 100 degree weather. your car has an issue, overheating at the high charge rates
I don't have any answers, but I want to corroborate the same experience of hitting 100% and having the car still take charge for a while before it truly says "charging complete". I know it takes more and more energy to get a battery full, the closer to 100% SOC, so I'm guessing it has to waste the energy to get the battery full as it lowers amperage as the battery is more and more full and raises the voltage from ~360V up to ~390V when the battery is almost full
I have one of these adapters while waiting for my lfp model 3 to come in.
so only the new tesla's can take CCS charging?? I'm glad I waited to buy one.
EA has other major problems. Their stations are more often than not down.
Not the dozens of stations that I use every month
Can you compare $ /kWh cost between Super Chargers and 3rd party chargers? I've typically seen Tesla cost a lot less than 3rd party.
The difference is the balance charging of the cells. The reduced input charge rate on all EV’ as is when the charge system hits say 90% then it continues to take input voltage but is balance charging. The difference is the input can only be as high as the charging system can discharge the cells to keep “filling “ the low cells and NOT over charging the full packs. This is why the difference and why some Wav’s have a faster rate from 90% to 100%.
Dont forget the adapter at the station
Check a Etron charging curve, stays about 140kw to 150kw till 80%, then tapers to 50 kw all the way to 100…….
Should do another v3 as charging curve could have changed in a year
Already did. Video soon