Why EV Charging Stations Suck (And How to Fix It)
Vložit
- čas přidán 4. 06. 2024
- Get a free bag of fresh coffee with any Trade subscription at drinktrade.com/stewarthicks
EV Charging stations are not great places to be these days. They're often stuck in some corner of an anonymous parking lot somewhere, lacking any distinct qualities. They are certainly not places you want to spend 30 minutes. But the success of EVs will, in some part, rely on making the charging experience less terrible. And, wouldn't it be great if EV stations could contribute to the beauty of the built environment beyond just their practical use? This video discusses why EV charging stations are not yet good architecturally and points toward a direction for how to fix it.
_Membership_
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @stewarthicks
_About the Channel_
Architecture with Stewart is a CZcams journey exploring architecture’s deep and enduring stories in all their bewildering glory. Weekly videos and occasional live events breakdown a wide range of topics related to the built environment in order to increase their general understanding and advocate their importance in shaping the world we inhabit.
_About Me_
Stewart Hicks is an architectural design educator that leads studios and lecture courses as an Associate Professor in the School of Architecture at the University of Illinois at Chicago. He also serves as an Associate Dean in the College of Architecture, Design, and the Arts and is the co-founder of the practice Design With Company. His work has earned awards such as the Architecture Record Design Vanguard Award or the Young Architect’s Forum Award and has been featured in exhibitions such as the Chicago Architecture Biennial and Design Miami, as well as at the V&A Museum and Tate Modern in London. His writings can be found in the co-authored book Misguided Tactics for Propriety Calibration, published with the Graham Foundation, as well as essays in MONU magazine, the AIA Journal Manifest, Log, bracket, and the guest-edited issue of MAS Context on the topic of character architecture.
_Contact_
FOLLOW me on instagram: @stewart_hicks & @designwithco
Design With Company: designwith.co
University of Illinois at Chicago School of Architecture: arch.uic.edu/
#architecture #urbandesign
![How an Electric Car Works? Its Parts & Functions [Explained]](/img/n.gif)
The perfect place for public charging stations isn't next to big traffic nodes, like it would be for gas stations, but in places where people go to spend 30-60 minutes doing something else..
For example stores and restaurants etc.
This would give parking spaces, which would be occupied anyway, an additional use, make them generate their own revenue and maybe even drive business for locations, that offer the comfort of charging the EV while using their actual services.
Starbucks should consider turning some of their locations into café lounges for ev charging lol
Yeah that’s where Tesla tends to place their superchargers
In my country/city we have a few charging stations around the city center that were installed before Eva were popular, but now that evs are popular we have them in the mall, some retail stores are installing them combined with a canopy with solar panels, even some gas stations are installed them.
For L2 stations, maybe. For L3 stations, you definitely want them right at major highway interchanges, so you can simply pull off the highway, recharge, and get right back on. Their entire purpose is really road trips, so their placement needs to facilitate that.
@lifeinhd Is there an L2.5 maybe?
As it was mentioned towards the end of an episode, I think the concept of dedicated ev charging stations is kind of dated. The reason normal stations for fuel exist, is a problem of logistics and distribution, but power cables exist everywhere. Something I have noticed is how more or less every parking lot and every shop offers a few lots with chargers, so you just drive there, plug your car in and do what you came there for. This removes the requirement for dedicated EV charging stations and presents a challenge and opportunity to inegrate them into city design.
The double helix tower shown here kinda feels like a dystopian nightmare thought up by car dependance. Cars are heavy objects causing strain to any construction they move over, so the concept of a parking deck combined with elevators sounds better than driving unnecessarily long ramps. engine noises and exhaust fumes aren't that much of a big challenge already, so the building or buildings of that type could already have been build. Take Chicago's Marina City 'corn cobs' building as an example here. (Stewart Hicks made a video about it, watch it :-))
Other mixed used development should be what we should strife for.
I think it will be more important to integrate architecture and civil engineering to lower the reliance on single person travel, improve quality of public transportation which also creates chances to build new third places and allow connectivity. EV should only be a transitional technology for the masses, but remain usable if required.
Dedicated stations are needed to accommodate the scale of electric vehicles that politicians want to create.
@@JohnFromAccounting
No, they're not. If EVs are as widespread as gas cars are today, there would be zero need for dedicated charging stations like a gas station. You would just park at your destination and just charge while going on with your activities. It's mainly up to developers & engineers to bring in enough electricity to service the projected electrical demand.
I agree that for most situations simply putting chargers where people already park is the best idea, no station required. Nevertheless, cross-country trips are still going to require a convenient opportunity to get off the highway, charge up, and get moving again. Something like the rest stops they have on the Ohio Turnpike seems like your best bet. Restrooms, a couple fast food places, a starbucks.
@@urbananalrapist EVs cannot become as wide spread as ICE cars. It's simple math. How much fuel does it take to run a car 2-4 hours a day, versus powering an entire grid of cars constantly unplugging and plugging into the same power grid that everyone uses to power their A/C, Heat pump, hot water tank, lights, and any additional non-battery powered electric appliances. We don't produce that much energy, and if we could, we have no way of reliably storing it.
Gasoline cannot be beat by electric vehicles, because even with the battery tech of tomorrow (Carbon fiber structural batteries) we'll still barely be at like 50% of the power density of Gasoline.
Also how many times have you parked on the street in your life? In my city 99% of people park their car on the side of the road. If you have a parking spot off the road, you're a bit of a baller. Are we gonna start putting electric charging ports in the sidewalks? If so I think the homeless guys with bolt cutters are gonna make off with a lot of copper.
@@nolanpeters5462 Sorry, I don't see anything from your post that convincingly points to EVs not becoming as widespread. Battery materials are part of the current bottleneck, but that can be solved with improved battery chemistry R&D, which is rapidly advancing.
1. Cars won't be plugged in over and over again because you don't need to. At the moment, EVs (and other electrical-intensive activities) are incentivized by electrical utilities to plug in at night for overnight charging. EVs can then be used during the daytime without the need to be "plugged in over and over again". In the future, we may have a different incentivized time to charge our vehicles, depending on what our future electrical usage is & how our local electrical generation will be sourced & distributed. In addition, all those appliances & devices you mentioned are becoming much more efficient (especially lighting & HVAC), so we likely won't see some sort of electricapolypse that you seem to portend.
2. Correct, electrical batteries will likely never approach the energy density (not power density) of gasoline, diesel, or even ethanol blends. But guess what? What percentage of drivers need to drive 100-200 miles a day, daily? For most drivers, EVs make perfect sense for their day-to-day driving. And battery & infrastructure improvements will allow EVs to go on road trips more feasibly in the future.
3. You, my friend, seem to lack imagination. You just see the current world for what it is, then try to imagine EVs within this world. Did we pooh-pooh gas & diesel cars back then for not having the ability to traverse dirt roads as well as horses could, or did we create sealed-surface roads for such cars? Likewise, we will adapt & evolve our infrastructure as we move towards EVs.
Personally, I would rather have our world improve on mass transit and micro-mobility access, speed, safety (mainly from cars & trucks, which cause the most deaths out of all transportation modes, easily), and reliability. EVs are a step forward, but IMO are simply a cleaner form of a very inefficient & resource-intensive way to transport people & goods.
As an EV driver, most of my charging over the past 15k miles has been at home, or at L2 chargers near work. Places where my car will be stationary for long hours anyway. I’ve used DCFC about 30 times since the fall of 2021. Most of the time when I’m road tripping, or preparing for a long drive. One of the biggest things that drivers will need to do is shift their mindset, from “I have to go to a place and fill up” to “where can I pull down some electrons while doing something else”
@@sparklesparklesparkle6318 "a nice 800 dollar petrol car" ok buddy, good luck with that.
Pretty much yep. For road tripping, I'm somewhat flabbergasted that we don't already have EV charging at basically all interstate rest stops. They are literally there for people to stop, stretch their legs, use the restrooms, and generally spend a little bit of time not driving. The nicer ones are tied into some interesting landscape and/or natural points of interest. Seems like a "no duh".
Truck stops are also a well established form.
@@travcollier highway rest stops could even get good utility out of 50kW(ish) chargers. I’ve accidentally charged to full at a stop on a 50kW charger 🙈😅
@@andykphoto You're talking about the difficulty ($) running electric service lines? For some locations that is a fair point, but not for most I've been at. Where it is a particular problem/expense, it is also an opportunity to improve the rural infrastructure network ;)
@@travcollier more about the fact that L2 probably doesn't need anything special, whereas DCFC usually requires some transformer cabinets nearby for the HV stuff AND the "chargers" themselves. Then there are things like permitting, which as I understand it, are more complex for the bigger chargers. 🤷♂
2:41
The canopy serves more than protecting customers and filling attendants from the weather. Their main role is to prevent heavy rainwater from washing gasoline & other motor fluids into the local soil and groundwater around the station. In compliant gas stations, there are trench drains surrounding the gas pumps to keep any gasoline & motor fluids from running off into the local environment.
In Nevada, they could pair EV charging stations with brothels. Twenty minutes in, then out.
Oh good, we can just send the pollution somewhere else, great solution. :/ #trains ftw
@@pyhead9916 What would I do with the remaining 15 minutes?
@@Ryan-ff2db A good brothel you take your time, select a girl from the line up, Chat, Shower, get a blowie, then get down to business. So even if your a two pump chuck you'll easily pass 20 minutes.
Canopies also protect the equipment from excessive sun exposure. UV light from the sun is notorious for damaging plastics on charging stations. Just look at ones that were installed 5+ years ago and you start to notice some fading on the plastic.
I think it's highly likely that our urban environments will become increasingly pedestrianized in the near future and dedicated fast charging "stations" like these will only become the norm along highways as most people charge their EV's at home overnight. What's exciting is that, unlike a gas station, individual EV charging stations have incredibly small footprints. So we're already seeing curbside parking in cities being repurposed for charging EVs like the new London black-cab taxis. This overlap of parking/refuelling is a win-win, so in most cases I doubt a new urban typology will even emerge. Either way, I can't stand the sound of loud exhausts in cities, so I'm here for it. Great video, Stewart!
Based
Not everyone can charge at home. My townhome community does not have garages or dedicated parking. Most apartment complexes don’t have charging options. For more adoption of full electric, we need to have upgrades for these types of homes, not just people living in single family homes or pricy condos. I am looking to get a plug-in hybrid, but would prefer full EV - I just can’t sell my home and buy a new one to make this practical.
Considering the number of homeless, drug users, sex offenders and felons who have made urban environments their bathroom I think class based segregation using the car is still likely to occur. Any ped mall is going to be a drive-to affair.
E- drivers in the UK are reporting that they can't leave their cars while charging, due to a rash of thefts of the charging cables... apparently they can be sold for the valuable metal scrap...
@@Danielle-zq7kb everyone should be able to charge at home. The government should require that every car parking space, whether apartment block, kerbside, office building, etc should have a L2 charger that can schedule charging for low demand times. For kerbside parking lamp post chargers are being installed in some places.
I'd like to see less cars and parking lots and more trains like high speed rail and local metro.
Agreed
We need to eliminate gas cars from both sides. Replace most of them with public transit, bikes and walking and the last that can't be replaced become electric.
Yes. While EVs are better than ICE vehicles, they are still cars, and perpetuate negative aspects of car-centric towns and cities.
Yes, I'll have a order of a subway and a side of tram system and bike paths
Hold the cars
One idea to encourage public transit use could be making P+R locations in rural areas be EV charging spots - drive your EV to the P+R and leave it charging, get on a train to work, come back to a charged EV. Obviously only reasonable in rural areas served by commuter rail.
EV charging stations differ from gas stations by the length of stay (5 minutes to about 30). Therefore, they should concentrate on providing utilities that correspond to the longer stay. Instead of just a convenience store have a cafe or restaurant there. For those that aren't hungry, maybe an arcade or trampoline park - somewhere to pass 20 minutes actively.
I like the concept of driving to the gym to simultaneously charge your vehicle and get some exercise. Social utilities are a good way to turn EV rest stations from a chore into something productive.
brothel
Sounds good but in reality it will go unused, people want food, coffee and a store. If there are arcades and tampoline parks that are already popular/successful, just add charging there.
@@dividead100 Exactly: put chargers where we already take our cars. Don't try and make "destinations" of charging lots.
@@dividead100
There are ways to incorporate such concepts into a gas station like environment. You can have the normal gas station amenities but need something just a bit more to pass the additional time. An arcade within an existing gas station with EV charging would be cheap and passive. Trampolines, on the other hand, are huge liabilities. The thought should be to implement this stuff into infrastructure that is already available. Petrol and EV should not be considered as mutually exclusive over the next decade or two. Services which take 20-40 minutes are going to see a huge boon with just the right imagination and creative planning. Viable solutions aren't truly going to come from _reinventing the wheel._
I have grown to dislike electric cars because it distracts us from the real energy efficient solutions, such as rail transport, bike infrastructure, and less restrictive zoning that permits walkable neighborhoods.
Motorcycles.
Or maybe you just dont like people having the nerve to travel in personal vehicles that are faster and more comfortable today?
I love my Tesla. So much freedom. Best car ever.
I have to say, I agree. While I watched the video, the thing that came to mind was 'the cars are the problem'. If they look like car parks, it's because car parks are ugly. That's no way to do urbanism.
@@xandercruz900 Cars are great, but we shouldn’t NEED them to do simple tasks.
Frankly, the actual problem w/ charging at this point isn't in the architecture at all. It's that it's totally unreliable. If they were 100% reliable, we could move up the "Electrified/maslow's hierarchy of need" and start worrying about asthetics, etc...
yes, and more spots where charging, even tesla with the most reliable grid can improve the experience with more charging points closer to each ones, the adoption of EV need as much charging point as fast as possible, and normally fast and fancy are enemies
yea, trying to make a charging station pretty and complaining about it being "boring" is really some first world problems....lol
In my country (over 40 million people) there is only 2.5k charging stations, most of them type 1/2 (price:from 50cents to 2 f**king $ per 1kwh so its more expensive then just using LPG in your car) and most of them are broken
+ almost all of the electricity in my country is from coal, so driving a EV is actually worse in my country for the environment then a gas car and far more worse then a car on LPG
Unfortunately there will always be those people who think that if we make something pretty enough everything will work out perfectly.
Actually, in my experience out west, one critical reason for the lack of charger reliability is the exposure of the equipment to the hot sun, extreme cold and other environmental elements. The single most useful thing that could be done to address this is to provide cover for the chargers AND the support equipment (the thing we commonly call a charger is really just a dispenser; the real work is being done a few feet away in the large nondescript cabinets, often in an open-top enclosure. Solar shade roofs would significantly reduce the weather abuse this equipment must endure; it would also contribute to the power needed to charge the EVs.
99.95% uptime is enough for me. Whoops, that's only for Tesla Superchargers...It sucks that EA, Chargepoint, etc are a joke in reliability and getting them to work with ease...
I think you bring up some good points but I think it's also important to understand EV charging is done primarily at your home or office. "Private" charging stations will become more and more common as EV's become more common. Traffic (aka money) will significantly decrease to "public" refueling/recharging stations, I'm sure the EV companies understand this and that's likely a big part of why they haven't gone overboard yet with the stations. I have had an EV for 3 years and 95% of my charging has been at my home or office. The only time I've used public charging is on road trips.
To me this seems to be the logical conclusion: with ICE engines the only refueling option is "public" (for everyone except commercial/industrial transporters) but with EVs the primary recharging choice will be "private", at your office or residence, and "public" charge stations will have significantly less traffic.
True. Been leasing an EV for over 3 years and have never once charged publicly.
Your observation is correct, but I think this is changing. Currently, EVs are expensive. The early adopters of EVs tend to be affluent people who live in the suburbs. I lived in Chicago for almost 20 yrs after college and only had a parking spot the last 4 and that was in a garage of a condo building where I wouldn't have the choice to install a charger. I have owned an EV for the past 5 yrs and charge in my garage aside from the odd road trip, but if I still lived in Chicago I wouldn't be able to afford a home with a garage that was solely under my control... so there would be no way I could charge at home.
As prices continue to drop on EVs and there is more adoption overall, there will be a large cohort of EV owners who don't have access to charging at home or at work. If that access issue isn't solved, the adoption will be slowed, so I think this is a completely valid and necessary endeavor.
Gotta agree on that observation.
90% of my charging is done at home.
Works well in combination with solar btw!
But a lot of people live in apartments, so public charging has to happen too.
LV2 11/22kW AC chargers are more than sufficient for on-street residential charging.
You see more and more lower powered HPCs (LV3 DC) chargers popping up at supermarkets where the shopping time roughly corresponds to the time it takes to recharge.
And I like it this way!
Refueling no longer is a standalone activity/chore, but a secondary thing happening in the background with minimal time input.
Hotels, BnBs or tourist attractions like amusement/national parks or hiking trails that people drive longer ways for could do more with LV2 charging for their guests and patrons.
And high power chargers along highways could do with convenience stores/vending machines and toilets. A yoga studio really is the last thing I need on a roadtrip 😅
@@RocketSauce666 As the market shifts that will change. My office decided to install chargers for their employees; not all individuals will literally have to pay for the installs themselves.
Businesses that offer charging will become more enticing to prospective employees over businesses that do not. Apartment buildings that offer charging will become more enticing to prospective tenants over apartments that do not. And thus you will see more and more businesses and apartments install chargers for their employees/tenants/customers. Not to say I foresee this happening at every single apartment or business. There will undoubtedly be some people who can only charge at public stations.
@@Michigntiger08 - Agree, but I still believe you are thinking about this from an early adopter point of view. Ultimately, we need to be planning for the time when every Toyota Camry is an EV. Every Ford F-150 is electric. How many people work at an office building with a parking structure? How many people work from home or are students or work a shift job at a factory. These are all people who eventually will need a charging solution and it might not be that they can Lvl1 or Lvl 2 at their residence.
It is honestly a pretty white collar situation to find yourself in if you get to choose which company to work for based on amenities like EV charging in the parking lot or to choose apartments based on EV charging. There is a wide swath of America and the World who don't have the luxury of considering these things. I totally agree that those sorts of perks will help in the interim, but if we're heading toward a majority EV world, we'll need to replace or retrofit gas stations with an EV equivalent for those who can't charge at home.
I think indoor charging spaces make a lot of sense here in Michigan, especially in winter. Heated charging areas reduce charging times in cold temps, plus the charging cables suffer from extreme cold. I love the idea of buildings and parking structures melding. It makes a lot of sense with EVs. Leave from an attached garage, drive a pre-heated car to work, park IN the building… no more chapped skin in February!
Just build them at DOT highway rest stops. Those are basically exactly what you are describing.
Interestingly, the illinois Tollway has a network of highway oases built in 1959 for travelers; the oases would lend themselves well to EV charging. The typical oasis consists of a large structure built over the tollway, accessible from either direction. Inside are several different restaurants/stores, restrooms, and free WiFi. Off the exit in each direction is a gas station with convenience store and 1-2 EV charging stations. Currently, the oases are struggling financially but I think they could make a comeback if they expanded their EV charging capacity and added some indoor amenities (eg, lounge/work space).
"Rest Stops" that actually collect some income _and_ feature public amenities? What a concept!
Most of these are torn down now
Never going to happen unless the state can make more money with the chargers than they did with the restaurants.
And Illinois has Begun the process of removing all of the Oases
Thank you, EV users pay for it
"Man I was gonna buy an EV but the electric gas stations aren't even post modern mirror sculptures with free treadmills and ellipticals".... 😑 Architects. It's pretty simple: first, there needs to be one common plug that's standardized. No Tesla charger, no GM charger, no Rivian charger - just generic chargers. Apps should be optional. Don't make me sign up for a new service and put in my credit card and verify my email because I walked up to some charger brand I don't normally use. Walk up, swipe card, get electricity. That simple. And finally, for suburban and highway chargers, it's best if they're in parks or at least places where there's some pavilions and benches and preferably still a small shop. I'm going to be sat here for 15-30 minutes. Let me hangout, sit outside, eat a sandwich, enjoy the view etc.
In Japan, many highway roadside gas stations have amenities like small amusement parks, or cafes, or dog runs. It seems to me that one has to provide the electric car owner something to do for 30 minutes to an hour. The solution is to fit various types of businesses into a space. Ideally, one could go in for a fully clothed massage while the car was charging. Then grab a light meal, or enjoy a dog run.
Thanks for the mention about single purpose infrustructure... Folks electric cars are not the future! Public transit (elevated trains are the my absolute favorite!!), bikes, intercity rail and pedestrian traffic are. Cars will always have a purpose, but we should be vastly decreasing their place in our urban environments. :)
This 100x. All these desperate attempts to cram cars into cities are just doomed to fail.
We'll still need fast chargers if not for cars for semis.
Millions of people in Tokyo don't own cars. They don't need them. It reduces the financial burden and the environmental consequences.
@@JohnFromAccounting Tokyo is on an island and it's really expensive to live there.
Remember that what cars offer Americans is opportunity. They can drive 2 hours to work. They can live in the suburb which is cheaper and work in the city center.
@@Furiends I respectfully ask you to read my full comment. I acknowledge the fact Cars in general have a future, I just also know that their future should be far more limited than their present.
lol i thought we figured out that car driving up the skyscraper was stupid in the 60s
This is an interesting perspective, but I think the solution is to take this perspective entirely inside out. Don't think of a building for EV charging - think of them as a natural addition to a parking slot. It's not a new building type, but an upgrade to the existing parking slot type. Now, instead of a pavement pad with paint, it's a pavement pad with paint and a charging cable.
This doesn't work in reality.
You do understand that EV stations have a useful life of 3-7 years so no only is it so expensive to put a charger in every parking spot but that cost goes up exponential when the charging station is replaced every 5 years!
I can tell you have zero business sense.
Just put that into expenditure and adjust charging rate accordingly. Wow such a hard problem to solve /s
Another imporrant thing to note is: High voltage fast charging seems to vastly accelerate EV battery deterioration (there is a couple studies done on large fleets of EVs in the service of delivery/taxi companies). Arguably, providing level 1 charging everywhere you park via an inexpensive plug to the local power grid could be better than providing well designed dedicated charging stations at specified hubs. And leaving level 3 only for long trips that actually tax the EVs battery capacity.
LFP battery solved that conundrum, but that's Chinese tech magic stuff. The rest of us are stuck on cobalt tech atm
We need better public transport not more charging places that will also require parkings (several)
EVs don't work unless everyone can charge at home. Many people can't. No matter how good rest stations become, if you have to wait there for 45 minutes to an hour, that takes out a portion of your day. The gas station is a 5 minute stop at most. The dramatic difference in turnover means that most people will not have a lifestyle compatible with electric vehicles. Public transport is a better solution to reduce the waste of travel.
Well the times are reducing pretty rapidly I'd argue. The Ionic 5 for example (when chargers are working correctly, but that's a different topic lol), will charge from 10 - 80% in 18 minutes. Which is honestly better for ones body to wiggle around a bit more between long driving stints.
This is the biggest issue for sure. Retrofitting buildings/street charging is WAY more costly than new infrastructure.
Or we could work on decreasing charge times and increasing battery energy density.
Gas stations are sort of their own things, in the sense that a gas station is a place you go to do a specific thing (fill your tank) maybe do something else (buy snacks etc) or maybe not, and then leave. It’s also one size fits all-it doesn’t matter what sort of driving you do-the same gas station will fill your tank. You just need to do so more or less often, or in different places. Thus, just ensuring there are enough stations is fine.
Neither of those applies to EV chargers. Charging takes long enough, even with DC fast charging, that it makes sense to combine charging with something else. You’re not going to just stand beside your car while it charges like you do at the gas pump. Likewise, the different charger types serve different purposes, so you have to make sure you put in the right kind. I can think of several scenarios:
1. Everyday short trip charging. This is for short commutes, driving to the store, etc. An L2 or even L1 charger in the garage is good for this. Except in extreme cases (long daily commute and L1 charger) you will usually have a full charge every morning, and you don’t need public chargers at all. This is a huge change from gas stations where you still need to go there every once and a while, even if you only drive a few miles a week.
2. Day trips. This is where you drive somewhere and spend a lot of time there. This might be an amusement park, a museum, or other attraction, or it may just be a workplace that is too far away to fall under #1. This is a good location for L2 charging. You’re going to spend enough time there that it doesn’t matter that you charge slowly. You’re not waiting for the car to charge-you’re doing the same things you’d be doing if you took a gas car (or a bus).
3. Overnight stays. This is sort of a cross between #1 and #2. You’re charging where you sleep, but you’re also not at home. This is probably the ideal situation for L2 chargers, which really should be in every hotel parking lot.
4. Long road trips. This is the one scenario where gas stations are truly ideal. You just want to get on the road again as quickly as possible. This is obviously where you’d want DC fast charging, but since that takes longer than filling a tank, you want something to do while you wait, but not something where you’d want to spend a lo of time. A cafe and/or restaurant would be good, ideally with a place to walk nearby-a park, a row of shops, a historic area, etc.
Based on this (and my experiences driving electric cars) I think that EV chargers should in general be an adjunct to some other structure or place. Apartments should have at least L1 and ideally L2 chargers for their tenants, and hotels should have L2 for their guests. These can probably have their amps dialed down since people will be charging overnight, so 8-10 hours to full charge is acceptable. Workplaces, tourist attractions, large shopping centers, and such should have L2 chargers. Finally, there should be a new category of “EV rest stops” along major highways with DC fast chargers and 24 hour services such as cafes. Places that are a bit nicer than a typical gas station because you’ll bethere for longer.
Only the last is really a business in its own right. The others are all pre existing businesses that add EV charging as a service or as incentive to customers.
Your suggestions for 2) and 4) lust caused the most random idea to pop in my head. If the EV industry wanted to really appeal to folks in the Southern US states, they should pair their charging stations with roadside gun-ranges. You can even use a wacky tagline, like "Fuel Up While You Unload," or "Recharge & Reload," to charm them with a bit of humor.
Hear me out. It's probably better than any of the other ideas proposed in Stuart's video.
Use LFP batteries as targets. If you manage to blow a battery, you get free charging.
i drove a nissan leaf to UConn from an hour away every weekend in 2016 and man…dark days. the chargers are the parking garages were broken so often i had to park in a different town and get picked up by someone else. honestly i don’t think i would get an EV for many many years bc i swear i have ptsd from driving that thing
It's actually fascinating seeing the exploration of charging stations and how we're experimenting with making them more appealing.
Also, if you're going to talk about coffee brewing that isn't fussy or time consuming, I am compelled to mention the Aeropress. It is quite literally a game changer if you're only brewing one cup at a time.
As an EV owner for over 5 years, I find the emphasis on public charging without emphasizing that most EVs are charged at home, overnight is just one of the things that will prevent some people from considering changing over to EVs. People with experience in EVs should be the ones explaining the needs and technologies involved with EV ownership.
One of the things that will need to be dealt with as more people get EVs is how to do that for people who don't have a garage or dedicated parking. It's one thing to charge in your garage, another to charge if you are someone who needs to find a curb side space on your street, and giving those people dedicated spaces makes parking in general less flexible, since that's a space that can't be used by someone else even when that person isn't there.
We may need a public option where cities put in charging along streets like parking meters. (They'd probably be the best option, since they would have an easier time getting the right of ways to do it, and would be less likely to price gouge since politicians can be voted out.)
The most important thing is this: Long distance travel needs public bathrooms. That is why most people stoping at gas stations in highways are only doing it for the bathrooms. Even highway signs point out when a gas station has no bathroom because then it is kinda useless for the person. We can push through and get to the next one if that one has a bathroom.
Overnight charging is fine, but we still need bathrooms along the highways.
Totally agree I also have owner a Model Y for a number of years along with my wife's gas car. Even though I drive 10 times more in my Y I spend about as much time maintaining her car with oil changes, smog testing and having to actually go to a gas station to fill her car. The Y gets >95% charged at home, no maintenance and when we are on a road trip we stop for less time than the bathroom and coffee break we need anyway.
When my CyberTruck arrives we will dump the ICE forever, and hopefully add solar and battery storage for the house.
@@nacoran If you don't have dedicated parking then you shouldn't have to have (and probably shouldn't have at all) a dedicated car. Walking, bikes, public transports and car sharing and rentals should have you covered in that situation.
Car have very little to no business being in an area you don't own or rent a parking space anyway.
It would be great to see a video on mass transit architecture and its integration with the surrounding environment - how it can make mass transit better.
Yeah, it's kind of funny to think about a parking space having a roof- a spot that whoever is using it will benefit from for a few seconds getting into and out of their car, while lots of bus stops are just a sign, despite the fact that multiple people may be standing out in the rain or snow there waiting for a bus.
@@nacoran in the UK most bus stops do have a roof/shelter.
Speaking as a government PM who has handled multiple EV charger projects - the principle issue is cost. Existing technology is prohibitively expensive.
Specific to Level 3 charging, each charger costs around six figures per charger. Double that for labor for supporting infrastructure, and you rapidly realize that the cost for ten of these chargers is roughly equivalent to a small service building. Supporting infrastructure isn’t just trenching to the nearest utility meter. Entire transformer stations need to be installed. Without grants or other dedicated funding, it is nearly impossible to justify these types of additions versus other deferred maintenance projects, and new construction needs. For the same reason, you can forget about solar canopies. Outside of heavy equipment usage (e.g. bus stops), There hasn’t been a clear use case for us.
Level 2 chargers are much more modest at around 10-15k per charger only. Supporting infrastructure is reasonable, but the speed is too low to be effective. Assuming chargers are used during business hours, only one or two full EV vehicles will likely be able to take the benefit of a full charge. Capping charging times is deeply unpopular, and creates parking issues as EV drivers fight over open spaces. (Also waste time checking for open spaces). Scheduling charge times are also unpopular, as it leads to “open” spots that cannot be used.
The idea of plugging in a car seems idiotic to me. It’s unfortunate the current EV paradigm is focused on tethered charging as oppose to replaceable batteries. Make the batteries modular and easy to access (e.g six batteries instead of one big one) which can be quickly swapped. This, instead of waiting x amount of time, simply drive up to a charging location, deposit your old batteries, switch for a set of fresh ones, and continue driving. The old batteries can be charged for as long as they need on-site. (Think propane and BBQ grilles)
There won't be changing stations, except on roads.
Changing will be done at home or any parking spaces, and except for road trips, you won't be going to a station at all.
Very interesting video. My local supermarket in San Diego has a boring row of EV charging stations. But, it makes sense to me to have these there, as you can do your shopping while your car is recharging.
I was surprised by the power plant with a ski slope. I was a chemical engineer for 34 years before retiring, and I can't imagine doing ANYTHING with an oil refinery or chemical plant other than putting it off in some unwanted place with no people around.
It's in Copenhagen. They burn all non-recyclable trash so cleaner than burning fossil fuels and the gases are run through filters before release. I'd love to see power plants like that regardless of the ski slope.
@@nellwarnes7273
"They burn all non-recyclable trash so cleaner than burning fossil fuels and the gases are run through filters before release. I'd love to see power plants like that "
That doesn't sound right. We banned incinerators long ago in the USA. We used to have those in all major cities. They're obsolete because we know how to split the atom and derive zero emission energy from the natural environment. Ash from those things used to fall down upon New York and Chicago like snow.
The Danish web site says their biomass is "wood pellets, wood chips, or straw". I think that's what you were thinking of....that's far from green. They should build more nuclear reactors instead. A lot of nuclear physics came out of Copenhagen, so it's weird they want to burn wood instead of uranium.
Just because it's Denmark doesn't mean they're enlightened.
Here in the Great State of California, we're 65% zero emission already, meaning solar, wind, hydroelectric, geothermal, nuclear. In addition to all the green power internally in the State, we import nuclear from a reactor in Arizona partially owned by Southern California Edison, and we import hydroelectric from Washington State and Oregon.
Supermarket charging is a bad idea, it doesn't work.
@@w.o.jackson8432
"Supermarket charging is a bad idea, it doesn't work."
hmm why would it be a bad idea, assuming the chargers are reliable? You have to stay there for 20 or 30 minutes to charge, might as well shop while you do so. 🙂
In my experience Norway does a really good job with their EV charging station design(s)
So what do they do?
@@Snowshowslow They splash billions of their oil-money on top notch solutions of course haha.
It’s great when companies put the effort into making charging stations nice. But as someone who has driven across country, and considering level 4 charging is coming soon, most people just want a fast stop off the freeway to play on their phone for 10-20 minutes and use a toilet. It’s important to note each stop does not require fully charging the car. One can often charge enough in 5-10 min to get to their next stop.
The most important part of any gas station is the bathroom. You did not mention it but using the bathroom is the main/only reason for me to go to a gas station other than pumping gas. None of the ev charging stations you pointed out, though bvery pretty, seems to have a bathroom, but gas station bathrooms are the most important thing people need on highway travel. If EV stations are to replace gas stations they need to start having bathrooms.
Bathrooms are so important that some huge highway rest areas are jusst a fancy building with a huge bathroom and not even a gas station in the building. That is how important bathrooms are on long distance travel.
I just drove my Rivian 2700 miles to Chicago so this video is amazingly timely. EV stations generally sucked along the way. You can argue over the issues and merits but America is car centric and gas vehicle road trips are very well catered for. Not in an EV. The Rivian adventure network is an good example of focusing on a specific automotive use case. We also need a road trip network to address that use case. On a road trip I don’t want to go to a mall that sells mattresses to recharge. I want to get coffee, some relaxation, tidy up my vehicle, clean the windshield etc without major deviations from my route. In 2700 miles and maybe 15 charge stops, only one place had trash cans and windshield cleaning stuff. Pretty basic needs not met. Regular gas stations serve the gas powered traveler needs well. Current EV stations do not serve their user needs in a comprehensive way. The design of a charger at mall is not appropriate for a road tripper or hiker at a National Park. We need designs that match the use.
Putting your car up with you in a building is high up on the list of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard. What exactly is the benefit of a "seductive urban ascent", what does my car do next to my office/apartment?
I want to see chargers where my car is waiting for me, not the other way around. At the grocerie store, at the gym, generally at parking facilities. At those places they don't need to feature a roof full of weeds and a nice hard concrete cube to sit on, because the humans are busy elsewhere.
Or at college campuses, corporate office parks and what not.
If I was traveling, I'd absolutely love the one that allows for a nice walk through nature while it charges.
I just drove to Canada, filled up once in each direction and it took a total of 10 mins. The one thing people don’t have in this hectic world is extra time and now we’re asking them to take approx an extra 30 mins to charge up and hope there’s a free stall when needed.
My brothers Tesla has 400 miles of range, supercharges 20% to 80% in 25 minutes. You could take a lunch break after 4-5 hours of driving and have the range to drive another 4 hours. You save a lot more money too.
Isn't one of the most important and obvious needs of commuters to have a place to eat, use the bathroom, etc. - basic human needs? All of these designs seem to try to evoke some higher sense of atmosphere, focused on modern, sustainable or otherwise "fashionable" trends. It looks like these designers are trying to surpass themselves in terms of, basically, fanciness, while largely ignoring the basic fact that what a commuter needs is a place to use the toilet, eat and sit down for a bit
@Mr. MXB okay, it's not nonsense to decarbonise, but it's nonsense to greenwash it to the extent you try to suggest people will start doing yoga along their commute while their car charges. Like c'mon, all I want while a car is charging is to have a coffee, a sandwich, and use the toilet
@Mr. MXB I have an EV and I love it. I do 95% of my charging at home and at my office and thus spend basically zero time "waiting" for my car to refuel. I also don't have to pay for charging at work.
People are blinded by ignorant nonsense.
My opinion is that we should just build these things with public money and keep the privateers out of it. There was actually a handful of instances during the pandemic of closed high schools being turned into temporary truck stops. They opened the gym for truck drivers.
@@loodvicheck_3693 the problem is many people don't understand (and this video didn't mention it either) that as EVs become the norm there will be almost no "charging on your commute". You will charge at home while you sleep, or at the office while you work. I have had an EV for 3 years and not once have I charged for driving between work and home or for any local drive. The only time I've used a public charger was on long trips.
I know this isn't necessarily the case everywhere now. But as EVs become more popular it will be.
@@Michigntiger08 Great, but what about the people that don't have driveways?
The evolution of the gas station was a compromise, people would rather fill up at home or at work if it were possible. I agree regarding the charging stations placed in the middle of nowhere but otherwise this feels like a solution searching for a problem. We don't need a new paradigm, we need charging at home, at work, at the mall, etc. As for the ones placed in the middle of nowhere just add coffee, food and a shop.
Maybe even a single screen theater running TV programming that seats about 30 to 40 people. Nothing huge, just enough to seat the amount of people the charging station provides.
In my (European) experience, Tesla superchargers are usually located in shopping centers, near restaurants or other suitable facilities. Some are more utilitarian by simply being in the middle of a long highway stretch but most of the time I find them quite nice. Now with regards to reliability of other chargers... As recent as a few hours ago I encountered a malfunctioning charger in Dublin. Luckily the next one over was free and working but they have to get up to the level of Tesla chargers before people can really rely on them.
I think trailer friendly EV charging is important. Ones that can be driven through with no reversing in or out. The other big variable is the location of port on car. Front v. Back, Left v. Right.
If you can't back it up, you have no business towing it.
@@ghost307 Reversing trailer is easy but you need the cable within 6’ of vehicle not trailer. Unhitching finding a suitable space and supporting 350kg of ball weight is a pain in the arse.
@@timfreeman2603 You could always carry an extension cord for the charging cable.
Amazon and other retailers sell them in lengths up to 30 ft.
@@ghost307 DC cables are liquid cooled, not available on Amazon.
The technology is still evolving rapidly, so charging stations will evolve along the way too. I see it being more integrated into our daily lives. At work, at stores, and at home. The interstate will have it's own network of rest stops and charging.
I'm not entirely sure it's possible to make a parking space a transcendent architectural experience. You're making a common parking lot at the end of the day.
Hey do you guys know about volta charging stations whats your thoughts on that in a marketing way?...
Architects: lets make gas stations /ev charging stations pretty and futuristic.
Real people: ok, but where is the bathroom?
Generally I hold the urbanist perspective that we need more balance in our transportation infrastructure, but I do agree that better EV stations would benefit us, especially since a lot of places in the US will unfortunately have EVs much sooner than they will have good transit or bike paths.
As an engineer I think a lot of the behind the scenes stuff gets missed in conversations about it. EV charging pulls massive amounts of power, typical level 2 (208 or 240VAC) chargers can pull up to 20kW while charging. Even at that rate it would take at least 3 hours to charge a small commuter car, the Chevy Bolt EV has a 65 kWh battery. Charging rate slows at the top and bottom ends of capacity as well, the 20-80% charge happens fastest. Level 3 DC fast chargers can pull up to 350kW if the battery supports it. 350kW is 470 HP in Freedom units. A level 3 charging terminal with just 6 bays would draw up to 2.1MW of power if uncapped, that's enough to power a 175,000 SF deep freezer in the heat of summer. The biggest problem we're facing with this type of demand is where that level of power is available, it's certainly not available on residential or even light commercial grade distribution. Pulling lines for that much power is not cheap either, the utility bill is about 5-10$/kW per month for commercial distribution. That 6 bay DC fast charge station could cost $15k/mo for the Owner just in electric charge. People demand the fastest charging time because waiting 4+ hours for a full charge sucks. Level 2 charger installed at the home is the best solution IMO, but not everyone has means to live in suburbia (nor should they). A modest 10c/kWh residential rate would mean a full charge on that Bolt EV cost $6.50, at around 250 miles of range. I get 150 miles/tank on my motorcycle getting about 45 MPG, costing around 11 bucks to fill up. EVs are still incredibly power efficient compared to gas vehicles, but the charging infrastructure is really a toll that hasn't been brought to light. At least we'll get the power grid updated this way. It's easier to transition EV charging to other big power users than a gas station to literally anything else.
The focus should be on #1 improving public transit and reducing car dependency through form based codes and walkable urban design, and #2 increasing the proliferation of level 2 chargers to be used during a vehicle’s longest periods of disuse (typically while the driver is sleeping). Level 3 chargers should be used mostly by people exceeding their range in a single day (eg road trips), not by people who don’t want to put a level 2 charger in their garage (so apartment complexes need to add level 2 chargers as well).
@@TimBryan agreed however a lot of people live outside the range that public transit can reasonably operate and those systems are incredibly hard to create in the US. EVs may be a bandaid solution but they are an important part of decarbonization. Level 2 chargers at apartments is a really good example of why local codes are important, Multifamily developers are the most penny pinching ROI hunting people I’ve ever worked with. They absolutely will not pay for EV charging infrastructure unless their hand is forced, to them it’s an unnecessary expense. But, for people who live in apartments it’s an amazing amenity and helps them stay in denser housing without feeling the need to buy a house to accommodate their car. Most apartments I’ve worked on built in the 2020s have at most 10 EV level 2 chargers, out of maybe 400 parking spots total. The infrastructure is expensive and no one wants to shoulder that cost unless it directly benefits them.
I do not want to do something while i wait for my vehicle to be filled.
I do want my vehicle waiting for me charged after i did something i needed/wanted do do anyway.
Centralised EV charging is the last thing we need, it should not be a destination and therefore does not need to have a sense of place. It should be a streamlined and convienient service available where daily live happens.
You may surprise for gas station in Thailand. Although it follows the same structure building on Gas filling section, but it's also has very large parking space and retail ares.
Transition to EV not need to change layout because parking is already there just add more and more charging ports. EVs usually need 15-30mins at least even with DC chargers. That really make sense for retail areas which have fast-food, convenient stores, cafe or even wellness/massage. The parking roof may be added with solar panels to even better energy cost savings in long-term.
I work at Tesla on infrastructure design and many of the issues you raised are concepts we have to challenge on a day-to-day basis. Very well done with your video, it is cool to see that our initiatives might one day help make our future world a brighter place to explore and live in.
Nice place, are nice, but first is function they must deliver and reason why you do it. Wood is great, but different material have different cost and lifetime. Same as EV = green and health, it is nice that is connected to it, but this isolating people which don't care or don't feel to be part of it.
As many commenters mention, making existing businesses have EV chargers makes the most sense in a city. However, for long highway drives, incorporating a gym/walkway with restaurants and arcades makes a lot of sense, because it's a mandatory destination on the way somewhere else. If you're on a divided highway, you don't want to detour 20 minutes into the downtown to recharge, you want it along your route.
Yeah that’s typically where Teslas superchargers reside
This is cool. My job absolutely requires me to drive a car. I'm a home inspector. That said, outside of work I would LOVE to travel on clean, public transit.
City to city high speed rail and intercity public transportation with very limited roads and way way more and better public transport are the way to go.
For the big in betweens electric vehicles make more sense than gas ones. Especially electric big rig trucks that can charge from overhead highway cables like they are impending in Germany.
@@TheGrinningViking For mass transit, trains are far, far, far, far, far superior to overweight battery trucks.
In the UK, and in Australia, a fast, DC charging of one vehicle uses the equivalent power of 20 homes.
The point of this is that it’s enormous, short term, draw electricity.
We don’t have the transmission lines capable of handling the additional load, nor the power production.
Home charging works only because it’s a draw over a longer period of time.
Fast DC charging is during peak use hours during the day for society and it won’t work
I've driven an electric car, and it would be great if there were more highway electric charging stations. Currently it is impossible in much of the country to do road trips in an electric car due to lack of charging infrastructure. Highway sites need something for people to do while charging. It could be a park-like area where people can walk their dogs. There might be a cafe and a newsstand. For larger charging sites that get heavy traffic, there could be a small plaza of shops that specialize in keeping people interested and occupied for the time they are there. Malls could really benefit from charging sites. In my city, there are malls that still have no charging facilities, and the owners refuse to install them. They might be missing out on some shoppers who want to charge while they shop.
It is NOT "impossible" to do road trips. You'd probably know that if you actually owned an EV. In the last five months I have made seven trips of over 500 miles, including two of 1500+ miles, in my standard range F-150 Lightning. Does it take a bit more planning than in an ICE vehicle? Sure. But even in EV deserts like Arkansas, I've road-tripped hundreds of miles, far from the interstate highways, with just some advance route planning and intelligent driving.
once again this is an immaculate video, making me immensely curious about my environment. Your videos really change the way I move through the city. Thank you for being so consistently good.
There are companies that make charging an experience, especially here in the UK, where they combine charging with food outlets and EV showrooms, like Gridserve, these are, at the moment the rarity but they will be the norm.
When gas/petrol cars first came to the forefront, the only place to get fuel was a chemist, I know in the UK for instance, chargers outnumber petrol pumps by a large factor, and in time the market will change to charging hubs, instead of being hidden behind a bush somewhere.
Awesome video! Thank you for the detailed breakdowns and for addressing such a huge issue.
I would hope that there will be some kind of standarization of batteries in the future so that all cars will all use these standarized versions, bigger vehicles needing more, smaller ones needing one, and one could drive up to a station, there the used batteries would be pulled up and new or recharged ones would be put back in, ( like we do with all sorts of battery powered objects) and off you can go! An app would show which station where has how many freshly charged batteries and what is the waiting time for exchanging them.
Look into chinese ev makers, they are already doing that
As always, a very interesting video capped by a thought-provoking caveat. Nevertheless, single occupancy EV till requires the same horrendous mount of tarmac and other infrastructure. I hope EV charging continue to be miserable enough to give public transit a fair chance. For example, in suburban Chicago, the vast majority of bus stops have no shelter, most with inadequate sidewalks.
Baby steps.
I agree though. I know self-driving cars aren't ready for their big moment yet, but I think you could tie them into a mass transit system nicely. Imagine instead of everyone in the neighborhood having a car, you have a neighborhood car that you can flag down. It pulls up, you hop in, and it takes you to a nice large bus stop. The bus stop has a cafe and some other impulse shopping options. You catch your bus, which drops you off... but if there isn't enough demand at the other end for a stop that drops you right at the door, don't worry, that area will have a neighborhood car (or shuttle bus).
By scaling each area to the demand level and using smaller vehicles as collector vehicles you can serve lower density areas with mass transit, while still lowering the total amount of vehicles needed. The amount of local traffic (the shuttle cars) may not drop to much, since you'll still probably have roughly the same number of total trips, but the longer range traffic can be done on consolidated buses instead of cars, and the number of parking spaces needed will drop dramatically.
/I have an idea for trains too, but I think the tech for that is a bit farther away... basically though it would operate under the same general idea... you'd have electric shuttle cars that could catch up with express trains and hitch up. Each car would have it's own destination, and while the train was moving you could move to the car that would separate to drop you (and the other people getting off at your stop) off.
As a person who just recharged an electric rental car the first time, I enjoyed thinking about the recharge process on a higher level. I do believe there will continue to be a significant market for non-home basis charging.
🤮
I love your videos! Thanks for all the great content!
I tried to click on the link for the coffee but it was broken for me
00:31 I can do one better….the only public chargers near me are located next to a hotel. They’re on land which the hotel did want to use as car parking but the local council refused planning permission for a car park because the land is located next to a tiny river that with heavy rainfall overflows and turns the land into a flood plain. But in the council’s infinite wisdom they didn’t see a problem putting an electric car charging park there instead. So you can charge your Tesla there but you run the risk of flooding it if it’s rainy! 😂
EV Chargins Stations Brothel. Fund it.
As more people have charging stations at home, fewer people will charge out unless they are making long distance trips. Even apartment complexes are starting to install them. For long distance trip charging look at Buckee's for how convenience stores will expand to meet the need of spending longer time shopping. I'd love to see them installed at state rest areas along Interstates
Plenty of older apartments only have street parking. There may still be a need for in-town charging sites.
Placing charging stations inside the parking garages for shopping malls/movie theaters might be an attraction to get folks back to brick and mortar shopping.
I love EVs! Listen, it’s not perfect, but hardly any solution will be. It’s here, and it’s an objectively better car-centric option. The US loves cars, so, might as well take a green-we step forward and go electric. My next car will 100% be electric. Love your video and it’s honesty.
This is cool and all. I'm not an EV person at all. But we need to stop building for cars and more for humans.
Yes EVs will help but it's not gonna save us. The charging stations will be cool because it will take forever to charge the thing but I would rather not worry about that all together and take a bus or train or ride my bike to get around for most of my commute and use my car if needed for other types of commutes
Note that even if it wasn't parameterized in the video the "EV charging" mentioned is actually just: fast charging. These are all people who either on trips or don't have a home charger.
EVs will increase the problem.
In most countries, it's difficult to build electricity infrastructure, let alone autonomous driving.
and what happens when its snowing and the stations get buried in snow? Why do they always show the stations in sunny warm weather? The other problem is people who leave their car charging at a station and go out shopping and dining for 4 hours while people are in line to use a station especially on a trip - home charging is great when you go to work but traveling sounds like a nightmare
6:08 🙋♂
🙋
Electric vehicles are not the future. Neither is this excess, wasted space for parking. I'm disappointed to see you upload a video with this level of car-brained-ness.
"Single purpose infrastructure sucks" Railway stations? parliament buildings? museums? street-food stands? farmhouses, or barns? take your pick.
This problem will never be solved until the design community stops seeing the world solely from an "urban" point of view.
I can see 20 minute charging becoming a standard so an accompanying activity that can take that long would be a good association. Fast food, retail (walmart) or a canopy that supports a minigolf course.
I personally hope that electric vehicles won't be the future. EVs won't reduce road deaths, parking overabundance, congestion, environmental impact of roads, particulate pollution from tyres and brakes, or the social separation caused by cars and car-induced building. I hope that the future will be getting the electric tram to work or taking the electric hs rail for a holiday.
We haven't actually solved the problem of concentrated building that benefits integration like in a city but also allows individuals a high degree of freedom. That basically translates into you want a high paying job well you can only live in this high cost apartment nullifying the entire benefit of the work. City dwellers in aggregate produce way more (ya know probably at the cost of their personal life) but it's then squandered away by high cost of living. This isn't just bad for city dwellers it segregates the city from the suburban and the rural.
I agree that cities are the manifestation of what humans do efficiently. But we also pretty efficiently waste stuff and have lots of different interests. Advocating we all just use public transit for one probably isn't true. It probably takes twice as long on the bus to get to work. Trans were efficient but subways are a very expensive way to not disturb all the existing interests in a city and not by accident the best places for city transit are places that don't give a shit about peoples property rights.
Further even if some of us finally agree to this the next time we all get our feathers ruffed again it'll be another urban flight situations which massive consequences for those left behind. We can't force anyone to this time. We have to make city people actually want to live in not because of their job. Remote work is going to make this even worse for cities.
Absolutely! Thanks for saying this.
@@Furiends I don't really get your first point. I'm happy to pay more for a place that is within walking/mass-transit distance of my job and amenities. There is more to life than money. People in suburban areas often experience a degradation in quality-of-life because they need to drive to do anything.
Dense cities can be great ways to reduce waste. People don't live in space-wasting McMansions and it's easier to provide centralised conveniences such as running water, sewage treatment, waste collection, etc. Oh yeah, and you don't need to drive everywhere.
Advocating we all drive cars isn't a solution either. The resulting traffic is unpredictable and could take twice as long some days, four times on other days, and then you still need to find somewhere to park on both sides. Well-managed public transport can be far more efficient at moving people at scale. Hence the term mass transit. Cars are not efficient at moving a lot of people, electric or otherwise.
Do you know what actually causes segregation in cities? Highways. Some were explicitly built to separate minorities from affluent areas and demolish poorer neighbourhoods. I.e. the best places to build ROADS are the places where people have no practical property rights. Sure, subways are expensive, but they are effective and can bring a lot of money into a city. You also didn't mention trams, which run on the road instead of/alongside cars. Or even buses, which don't need any new infrastructure at all!
My overall point is that cars make life difficult for everyone, including the people driving them. If you design a city for cars, everybody drives, and that comes with inherent and unsolvable problems. The solution is to design a city with alternatives to driving.
Regarding your last point, making a city safer, quieter, healthier, and easier to travel within has generally not led to urban flight. It leads to urban regeneration. That's what makes a city better to live in, not more cars. Remote work reduces reliance on business districts and large office buildings in cities, which will make city property less expensive and open up huge amounts of land for housing.
I would recommend the channels Strong Towns, CityNerd, and Not Just Bikes if you'd like to learn some more about modern, reduced-car cities. I truly believe that it's a future worth pushing for. I hope that I've explained my perspective okay; do reply if you have any questions or responses!
The future is Public transit
No it is not. That is the "fetish" of activists, not the choice of most people.
Yes, it is.
This is good architectural thinking -- but one problem is the moving target of electric charging: Will batteries become swappable? Will charging get much faster? How can we use that fact that cars will be more autonomous in the future -- the cars don't necessarily have to sit in a spot.
In my opinion, the best solutions are what we already got: Charging at home or upgraded parking lots. There is no need for gas-station-like places for EV charging. Whereever cars get parked for long enough, they could also be charged because the grid is everywhere. Rest stops and supermarkets are perfect places for fast chargers and other parking lots are good places for slow chargers. With an EV you don't go to the gas station - you just top it up while the car isn't in use - like when you are at home, at work, in the shop or having a break at a rest stop.
The real elephant in the room is car dependency though. That actually is a huge problem when it actually is about making the human live sustainable...
EV in general makes no sense to me. So they don’t burn fossil fuels - but just as many fossil fuels are burned producing the electricity to charge them. And they’re much more difficult to dispose of than traditional cars. There has to be a better solution.
Public transport.
Power generation may burn lots of fossil fuels now, but tying energy to electricity guarantees that as power generation becomes greener, it pulls the whole private transport sector up with it. There's also economy of scale in power production, gas cars may be around 30% efficient at turning gasoline into useful work, but gas turbine plants and distribution may be closer to 40% round trip efficiency. Renewable energy like solar and wind should make up the largest portion of power consumption with fossils being used for demand or emergency power. Battery recycling is still a mess but it does offer good product hygiene due to the life of electric motors. Recycle and replace the battery and the vehicle gains another 10 years use. You can't really do the same with gas cars, although they do tend to last much longer in general. All the accessories (emissions control mainly) are failure points that EVs don't have to worry about as much.
@@JohnFromAccounting when I lived in the city I never used to have a car but I moved for work and now don’t really have a choice; public transport is an absolute nightmare here. But I agree in principle.
@@matthewshultz8762 that is a good point about the car “living” longer than the battery and in general. A friend of mine used to have a gas car but it was years ago when they weren’t as widespread and finding places to buy the gas was a nightmare back then. I guess that is the same problem hydrogen cars have now, or one of them.
So interesting to see ideas I thought of as early as 2017, I concepted malls would come back on a smaller scale but as places to do stuff as you charge your EV, basically the original idea behind Oldenburg's third space.
One minor correction. L3 fast chargers support either 400V (not 480) or even 800V. 800V is capable of up to 350 kW, charging compatible EVs 0-95% in
The 480 in the video refers to the voltage supplied by the electric grid, 480VAC 3 phase
I want lvl3 charging, a bathroom, a cup of coffee, a snack, and to not get wet while I do all that.
Another difference to take into consideration is that EV charging stations don't need to be very open up ventilated spaces. That's a requirement for gas only because of the nature opf gasoline and the risk of explosion or intoxication if in a closed space. The canopy is not a requirement anymore and it can make way for other alternative solutions.
You do need to worry, at least with the current EV chemistry, about fires though. An EV lithium fire is extremely hard to put out.
Any discussion of EV chargers that fails to include wheelchair accessibility is incomplete. As a wheelchair user it's exceedingly difficult to utilize public chargers, and even in locations that don't suck -- such as if there's a nearby McDonald's or any rest stop -- there's often multiple unnecessary steps or barriers in the way blocking me and my push wheelchair from utilizing the infrastructure safely or comfortably.
I don't think there's a need for dedicated charging station like gas station aside from rest stops. Regular retail parking should just offer an ample number of chargers in parking. You have to leave your car for a long time when shopping and dinning anyway, so charge you car too. The better question is how to improve street parking and parking lots / garages in general in addition to adding in chargers.
Remember all EV charger stations were built with and will be maintained by generally diesel or maybe gas vehicles.
Those mixed things with cars and people look like dystopian nightmare from 22nd century USA. Like, not only will you have to drive to your destination - you'll have to drive within that destination all over the place just so you aren't the squishy vulnerable human stuck outside the 2 ton protective metal box in what is essentially a parking garage
I am not always one for increased regulation, but it is very clear that EV charger manufacturers are incapable/unwilling of designing and implementing good charging infrastructure that is both reliable and easily usable. There should be regulations about cord length, maintenance/repair timelines, and all charging stations along major highways (those used on road trips) should have shade and restrooms at the very least. It would be nice to see air filling stations, windshield washing equipment and vending machines/food options as well.
I thought about this type of thing long, long ago when Tesla's first started up and started putting their SuperCharger stations across the US. Now I sure am no architect and I don't have that kind of outside the box thinking like some kind of EV-centric skyscraper or something. I think for the most part, there definitely needs to be different approaches depending on the environment. Urban areas are okay with quick chargers and maybe a convenience store attached. But one of my thoughts goes to how the US especially is traveled. People like road trips. People like destinations on their road trips, side attractions and whatnot. I was thinking more simple on this: Spots along interstates where people can stop to charge for like a half hour or more and do activities. Put little mini-museums there. Miniature golf courses, maybe a small movie screen. Heck imagine you're on a road trip and you can stop by at a drive-in movie theater and plug up and charge, watch whatever is playing till you're done charging and then just move on. Put arcades around for the kids. Definitely have good eateries, heck we can bring back good old fashioned Diners! We just need places where people can waste 30 minutes while their car charges and not think about their car charging.
THIS IS WHY I installed my own EV Charging Station at my home. Using the electricity from the Solar Panels on my roof.
Most people own homes with dedicated parking. That's where they'll charge their cars on a daily basis. Aside from that, people also charge at work or in the parking lots of big stores. Some charging terminals is really all that's needed.
So the only places that need dedicated charging stations are highways. There, chargers are in high demand and you don't want people to linger. The place just needs to be good enough, so people can barely tolerate it for 30 min. The bigger ones get some form of fast food like place, the smaller ones some benches and a restroom.
Excellent analysis thanks.
This is an issue that I have been thinking about for a while. It seems, here in Australia at least, that charging stations are still an afterthought, tucked into the far corner of existing parking lots. And most times they're out in the open without any canopy, unlike regular service stations.
Just as fuel companies like BP, Shell etc have their own service stations, why don't the power companies have their own EV stations?
Jolt had been putting chargers at substations all around Sydney. It's great, but only fits 1 or 2 cars.
None of the award winning designs would bring in sufficient volume of cars to justify the land purchase.
I feel like the elephant in the room was mentioned in about a second in passing. We’re ignoring the throughput per square foot of charging vs. gasoline. It’s pretty easy to put mant times more cars per hour through the same real estate in a petrol station.
As an architect, even I rolled my eyes at some the overly designed solutions here... I agree charging stations are stale and problematic, but we don't need towering skyscrapers and elaborate massive built environments to solve this problem.
Every time someone refers to DC fast charging as “Level 3”, a charger somewhere goes offline.
I love the tower you refer to as a double helix around the 7:30 mark. That's a very imaginative solution which also acknowledges that large, single use spaces are inefficient as well as encouraging excess traffic.
I think it's absolutely disgusting and an insult to the urban form. it takes an existing mixed use building like you'd normally see in a city and then just makes it car dependent like the sprawl we're actively trying to disincentivize. greenwashing in its purest form.
@@michaelmvm you're welcome to your opinion, but you may as well wish for unlimited wealth as be a hardliner that cars be banned from city centers in America. Environmentalism can only have any impact if it considers the current reality and moves toward a better future. Insisting the next step must be to an idealized future just locks us into the current reality, and that isn't pretty. Moving as rapidly as possible toward an electrified economy is aided by architecture which accommodates EVs. Insisting an entire nation suddenly stop driving personal vehicles and get on public transportation which doesn't even exist is a pipe dream.
@@johnbarker5009 even though I disagree with the idea that it's a pipe dream to pedestrianize downtowns, let's just take it as a given that we can never do that. what does that have to do with willingly designing glorified parking garages to take up space in urban centers?
@@michaelmvm I think you're missing the point of the design, which is to be a 21st Century version of Marina City in Chicago. It would combine residential, retail, office, and yes, parking space into one structure. EVs give it the ability to do this in a way which doesn't require the vehicles to be separated from the other spaces to the extent that ICE vehicles require, due to the lack of toxic exhaust fumes. As such it's the opposite of the suburban malls which fueled 20th Century sprawl in virtually every way. It's downtown, it's a combined use space, as such it makes it possible to use cars less than before. It can even increase urban density by integrating parking into the structure, reducing the number of blocks occupied by nothing but ugly structures which serve no purpose other than parking.
@@johnbarker5009 ok but consider you can build like every other city on and planet and just not integrate parking at all. the very fact that you're building parking in the first place is bad. buildings in urban centers don't need parking. it doesn't matter how integrated or mixed use it is, the problem with cars in cities isn't the ICEs with fumes, it's the fact they're cars and require non-human focused design. all the space in a building you use for parking or EV charging or those ridiculous ramps in that design? stuff more housing or retail space into the building. it takes up valuable urban land, which costs a premium and there is a limited supply of. every other country in the world does this just fine.
After having my hybrid for a few years I would say the best part is how energy efficient it is with gas. A full tank gets me 400 miles. Charging every day gives me another 1,000 miles over 3 months which is how long I usually go with out putting on gas. I would rather have hybrid than go full electric after this experience.
All this "canopies" bs just to put fuel in your car to go from A to B. It's a freakin nightmare. All I want to do is use the car, not build my whole life around how to best be able to plan how to get power into it! I never lay awake at night with the car I have, thinking and laying out a battle plan of how to go shopping.
These are good concepts but the reality is that almost all DC charging will be done at charge points and the AC charging will be done where people will be parked for extended periods of time. Which means most AC charging will be done where people live.
However, the biggest problem facing non-residence, remote charging of ANY level is just being able to rely on a charger being functional when you pull up to it.
Hey Stewart I have to say it, I love your videos! It's quality content that we really need nowadays. It's neatly written, edited and most important presented and narrated by you with style. Keep up good work!
Although am graphic designer and art director, I took my exams at architecture before changing to graphic design. Also father was architect, so I grew with books about architecture, projects, sketches, models, drawing board and utilities around .
Honestly I find the idea of an EV charging station to being stuck in an old outdated way of thinking instead of adopting the future, I don't want to stop and wait at a station to change an EV, I either want to charge at home, or while I'm out and shopping park in the parking lot, plug in the car and go about my business, I don't want to have to designate 15-20 mins waiting at a location in a place I don't need to be as it's simply a waste of time and less efficient, really I think the way it's being done now is the far better and future thinking approach, though canopies over chargers in parking lots is a great idea that should be generally standard to EV chargers.
In an urban environment that is understandable, but I keep coming back to the road trip experience, where you're driving across some of the emptier swathes of America. In those cases, you might need a station more skin in spirit to the rest area, like some of the designs he highlights would be.
Outside of road trips there's really no need for fast charging and the incessant capitalist desire to build this "tiny" obelisk to accommodate fast charging, payment and advertisements is inefficient and distracting. Virtually every single parking space in a lot needs a slow charger. That probably means bring your own cable like it's done in the EU where in the US you're not expected to have one. That means "slow" charging that gets you a few miles of range in an hour not "topped up" like a gas station.
Businesses that are currently willing and able to fill random street corners in the middle of nowhere and being at the end of highways are gas marts and truck stops. It's those places that need fast charging now. In my opinion since truck stops are created through the highway system we should build those first to act as the state of the art for fast charging. If left to the market fast charging will just get worse and worse until eventually your wawa or what ever becomes the preferred location. I realize that's in part already the case but only in specific locations where evs are very popular AND with government funding and funding from Tesla since most of those locations are because of the supercharger network. They'll have usually 8-10 spots for Tesla and 5 or so for all other cars.