Electrify America vs. EVgo vs. Chargepoint: Which offers the best DC fast charging experience?
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- čas přidán 31. 12. 2022
- #volkswagen #electricvehicle #roadtrip #chargepoint #evgo #electrifyamerica #id4 #longbeach
I compare what it's like to DC fast charge at Electrify America vs EVgo vs Chargepoint. Is there a winner?
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This video answers all of the main questions I had on EV charging. Thank you!
Thank you for taking the time to do this video for us! Really good info.
Great comparison and really highlights the biggest concern my non-EV friends have with EV's...that being charging difficulty, inconvenience and time. Your expeiences are in line with mine too for these chargers. Sad that initial range anxiety for EV owners quickly changes to charging anxiety.
I never realized that the two handles on the dispensers were for redundancy. Thanks for that info and I'm so excited that Bob Vila is finally doing EV videos.
The newer dispensers have one handle with a longer cable…though they seem just as unreliable. Haha the resemblance is uncanny! On the next episode of ‘This Old EV…’
Great information! I have a Fisker One on order and this is really helpful to see the experience at various charging stations.
Your video was both informative and timely, as I am planning a trip from Oklahoma to Colorado and return.
Hopefully the vid helped. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the demo. You gave us an idea of a real world charging experience.
I believe ID4 doesn't pre-condition the batteries, so a short drive won't heat them up enough to get the charge speed you want. Out Of Spec did a good video comparing cold vs forced-warm ("yo-yo" warmup) charging speeds.
You’re right, and I wish it did for our longer trips in cold temps. But I’m afraid that battery temp wasn’t the problem on this particular day. Yes, that vid was informative!
Any electric car is great as long as you depend on home charging. Network charger’s are grossly unreliable which if you road-trip a Tesla is the way to go. . I own a model 3 and a Chevy bolt . Love the bolt for local trips . But when I bought it I had to get towed home because of the charger s on the way home not working . Learned that lesson the hard way !
Thank you very much for a good video for this newbie. Learned a bunch. Subscribed.
Welcome!
Thank you for this video. Imagine going to a gas station and having to take several minutes to get them to even accept your card, then having to pump fuel and not having any idea how much it will cost you. Or pumping but noticing the fuel is only coming out a few drops at a time. Both EVG and EA's business models are completely GARBAGE at this point. These crappy DC Power Dispenser companies must get their operations properly together as more of us have to depend on them for longer distance travel.
Exactly. DCFC should be as easy as getting gas, but we’re disappointingly far from that goal. Thanks for sharing!
Rich H: Agreed. If that happens more than the occasional rare fluke at a gas station (re what you describe with bad pump reliability, which I've seen at poorly maintained gas stations), I just go somewhere else.
Hopefully someday it will be that easy for BEV's, re choice, and forcing much better competition re maintenance, etc.
Thanks for this vlog. Happy week. Ciao.
No offense, but as an EV owner, if I couldn't charge at home I wouldn't own one. Your experience is exactly why I bought a Tesla. I have only used superchargers while on trips but I've never run into a charger that doesn't work. Giving only half of the power it should would be classified as not working in my book. Charging speed matters, I think auto manufacturers should have cars be able to charge at 200kw as a minimum. That would also help with charger availability.
No offense taken. I address your exact point starting at 18:40 of this vid:
czcams.com/video/CSCNvV_dnz8/video.html
That’s the same thing I said. I would have to drive past two Tesla Superchargers to get to the nearest CSS charger. I just got my mobile connector and can charge at home now. I would hate having to live on the public chargers we have near me and would never think about a roadtrip. That doesn’t even include the cost. To charge on Charge point it’s about $0.17/kWh than the Tesla superchargers. I’m glad that more companies will use NACS now we might see more widespread adoption since EV Go, Charge point and EA have to compete with Tesla for charging stations.
I had a id4 for 2 years and really liked it, however, dealing with electrify America was somewhat of a challenge. I traded for a 2023 TESLA MODEL Y- wow, what a difference when charging at a super charger. so easy, no stress, no taking out the cell phone.
Makes sense! Supercharging network is the most compelling reason to go Tesla.
@@goneelectric One of many!
On the EVgo 350kw unit if you tap on the session details while charging, you can see what the max Amps of the unit is and what you are getting, that may help determine that the charger is derating.
Nice tip, thanks!
Unfortunately, most other states are just not as well equipped with charge stations as California. My state has 1 - count 'em, 1 EA charge station and 4 Tesla superchargers in our most populated county. Fortunately, having a house, I'm able to install my own charger AND I even have a neighbor who uses 110v/15 amp regular plug to charge his Tesla Model 3. at 3 to 4 miles of range per hour with a use case of about 20-30 miles per day, they did NOT choose to install a 240v/40 amp charger. Don't know why EA and other vendors have such a hard time keeping their chargers running. That has got to change for mass EV adoption.
Home charging is absolutely the way to go, if you can. Unfortunately, network operators like EA, EVgo etc, get money for installation, but not maintenance. They are following the money. Not helpful for mass EV adoption.
I'm glad you pointed out that fast charging degrades your battery. I don't think that most people realize that.
Especially folks who’re new to EVs.
Which means you should slow charge and wait FOREVER.... Which is why I just spend 5 mins filling up my rational petrol car
@@markc6714 So you automatically fill up your gas car at night like most people do with EVs?
Thanks for the video. Your information confirms I made the right decision by buying a Tesla Model Y. Superchargers everywhere and they always work.
Glad it helped! It’s very hard to recommend a CCS EV right now. Very hard.
And yet I continue to see Teslas using CCS and J1772 chargers.
@@COSolar6419 i use a j1772 charger because its at work & its free…..but its slow….my main way to charge is at home…..i wake up to a full charge every day on my LRMY!!! Trust me……if i had to go elsewhere to charge…..it would be at a supercharger…… i have used it 3 times….. they are EVERYWHERE!!!
@@Cocoatreat They are numerous and relatively reliable but they are not everywhere. If they were I wouldn’t see Teslas using CCS chargers.
@@COSolar6419: If people prefer a closer location and an inferior charging experience (or less crowding, etc), that's up to them.
So still have range anxiety with these 3 companies. I've never had a problem with Tesla's chargers. I saw a report awhile ago, it showed uptimes for chargers. Tesla's was at 95% against non-Tesla chargers at 80%. This video showed like 40%.
I’ve read similar reports. This was not a good showing for any of these operators. Tesla’s business model is much better; it creates a lot more reliability and responsiveness.
Haha dude I just met you this past Sunday! Haha that is crazy (I’m one of the improviser)! Anyways, I only use evgo, but I’m going somewhere where there is only electrify America, thanks for doing this video and showing us the differences!
Hey man! What a coincidence! EVgo is hot and cold for me, but so are most of the others. Hopefully EA worked out ok for you. Thanks for watching!
I can’t even imagine the idea of my dad getting an electric vehicle. He doesn’t even want to get a smart phone, but to charge he’d need to know so much about charging speeds, he’d need app installs, there would be no attendant to help him, he might have to debug bad chargers.
I really hope the non-Tesla charging networks improve soon.
I absolutely love my new IONIQ 5 but it almost feels like you need to be an enthusiast to really understand everything that electric vehicle ownership entails and get the most out of it (assuming you can’t do all your charging at home)
I had to tutor my parents for a long time before they felt comfortable with EVs. Now they can't imagine not having one. They bought the i5. Great car!
You can see in the video that the ChargePoint dispenser says 50 kW on it rather than the 62.5 kW you cited. It's an older one.
That was a rough EVGo session. With no L2 charging at home it makes EV ownership rough...I hope more and more apartment and condo complexes start to add L2 stations...and in CA I think it should be expected given how far ahead on EV adoption CA is over everywhere else.
Couldn’t agree more!
@@drfasthousevonbrainstorm I'm not sure how condo complexes would do it but with apartments they could have a bunch and like with owning a pet...if you have an EV you pay a monthly fee and there could be a schedule for charging or you could be assigned specific days.
Thx for the vid. Candid & reflective of my experiences too. When doing EV road trips, I always have a backup plan. Sometimes, a backup to a backup. I am looking forward to the Ultium Charge 360 Network build out this year. That may be a game changer for non-Tesla EV road tripping.
Thanks! I’m awaiting Ultium as well. I’ve learned to manage my expectations of any DCFC more realistically though!
I thought GM recently announced they were going to move away from the Ultium battery.
We just bought VW ID.4 love the car! We have a 40 amp chargerat home and we pay 17 cents a KWH at home plus we have solar panels. Paying 43 cents soon to be 48 cents on Electrify America seems pretty steep.
Excellent! I really do love the car after 6 months of ownership- haven't had any issues. Only catch is public charging. Home charging, powered by solar, is the way to go if you can!
Good to see Bob Vila working again. 😊
Bob Vila has been taking semi-effective anti-aging pills.
Excellent video. Thanks. I'm currently a PHEV owner and charge only at home. My next car will be full-on BEV, but Lordy this video does not inspire confidence in today's public charging infrastructure. OTOH, now that Tesla has begun to open its Supercharger network to other brands (Ford, as of today, GM soon to follow), that access may help bridge the reliability gap so painfully evident in your experience. OTOH, Tesla's CEO has just laid off his entire Supercharger organization, casting doubt on whether he'll continue to build out his network or, importantly, even continue to maintain what's now in place.
Thanks! Glad it shed some light on the public charging experience. I think being able to use the SC network will be a net positive, though it won’t always be smooth, especially as more and more non-Tesla folks use it, and who knows what will happen if Elon decides against maintaining existing stations. Good to have home charging!
Great comparison! But why didn't call for customer support when you were at the beach with both Chargepoint chargers Unavailable? I have often had Customer support reset / reboot the charger to bring it back on-line.
Thanks! Mostly just due to time constraints- and the recent notation in the CP app indicated that customer service was aware but couldn't fix it.
2022 MYP. Drive hard and recharge. No problem
Thank you
I know people who might have bought an EV but for the fact that they live in apartments and the rental companies don't offer EV charging parking spaces. If I owned an apartment complex I'd definitely install EV charging equipment in several parking spaces that I'd reserve only for that use. I'd also sell the charging but for significantly below the average among the public EV charging stations. Tenants would have the option of including charging fees in monthly rental invoice or paying at the stall, but I'd required a valid tenant ID to initialize charging. I'd also have all non-tenant vehicles parked in the EV charging spaces towed away, and warn any tenant who parks in the charging spaces without actually charging. That way, tenants would be able to charge their EVs and it would help grow the EV market and presence on the roads.
That’s an excellent idea! I only wish more building owners would think like that. Funny enough, there is a condo building near me that has 20+ parking spots enabled with Powerflex level 2 charging, and they even have four guest spots for charging. Problem is that they don’t police the guest spots, so they’re almost always taken by ICE cars. There are state subsidies to encourage building owners to install charging too.
I have a new KIA Niro EV. Drove it 2 weeks before needing a charge. Hyundai/KIA/Genesis has free EA service so I drove to my nearest EV Charger and it did ramp up to 65 kW charging (KIA has a 64 kWh charging port). Went from 48% to 80% in 27 minutes! Today is 2 weeks later, down to 42% and my ChargePoint+ home Level 2 charger will be installed next Monday so I'll almost never need a public charger again unless I'm on a road trip.
Congrats, that’s big!
@@goneelectric Today, I visited a EVGo charger and in about 30 minutes, spent $15 and I stopped it at 62% (from 29%); needed enough juice in case I have an issue with my electrician's installation with my home charger.
You should have charged to 80% at that last charge station. It worked out to just over $0.26 per kWh! That's similar to what it would cost, plugging in at home, if you live in Long beach, depending on which tier you're in. at less than 50 kW, it's less stress on the battery, than if you were charging at over 100 kW.
Totally agree, but in this instance, I knew I had a level 2 charger near my place that’s actually cheaper than this ChargePoint. I also started to feel guilty as the station was full and several EVs started encircling, awaiting their turn. It was time to pass the juice. Need lots more public chargers, and they need to be dependable! Thanks for the comment!
@@goneelectric That makes perfect sense!
The batteries can’t be preconditioned for fast charging since you haven’t driven far. Is this a fair comparison?
I have a question… not having a way to charge a home…do you find you have to work your day to day schedule around when you can charge the car? Do you find it hard locating an open unit to charge? Up where i live, we just don't have a charging network in place so if you have an EV charging at home is pretty much a must.
Also, it seems like the infrastructure there is not 100% reliable right?
We do have to plan our schedules around when/if we can charge. Typically that means going early in the morning or later at night. We recently got level 1 charging in our garage, which, due to how much we drive, doesn’t help too much. This vid shows how we got level 1 in our garage: czcams.com/video/cLOYeI4LINk/video.html
It is unfortunate that there are areas without public charging networks altogether, but home charging (hopefully level 2) is the way to go, either way.
That EV go you were at, I had a terrible experience there. I have a 2022 mustang mach-e, and it wouldn’t charge my car.
That’s great! Ur showing me places I can go to charge, when ever I visit the area.
Happy to help! Yeah, that EVgo was tricky. It doesn’t inspire confidence when you need to charge but the infrastructure doesn’t work!
I’m an EV owner. Not too sure about this. My electricity America worked perfectly. Did you precondition the battery?
You should set up autocharge+ in evgo so you don't have to deal with the app. We've got the same 3 networks in the opposite corner of the country, and similar charger setups.
I have an ID.4, which unfortunately is not currently supported for autocharge.
@@goneelectric oh no! Didn't realize that. Nice video anyway, too bad you had such bad luck with chargers
Tesla is going to own charging in the US. The only reliable company right now.
Too bad you couldn’t drive a Tesla to one of Tesla’s V3 Superchargers. Seamless and reliable.
Hopefully, sometime soon, non-Teslas will be able to do exactly that!
Depends on definition of winner. If I read the screens correctly, Chargepoint was about 60% the cost of EVgo (26c vs 42),
Considering the concerns of battery damage from fast charging, a slower DCFC rate is more gentle on the battery. Bring a book or newspaper.
True, true. Book, newspaper, or a computer to answer emails. Thanks for sharing!
Are there fast charging stations that can avoid battery damage? I'm new to this and trying to learn thank you.
Thank you for doing this video: If you still look at old comments: I just want to say a few things:
# 1) Does the comparison between these providers vary on what's best for an EV owner based on where you live ?
#2) Does the comparsion between these providers vary on what's best for you dependin on the make and model of your EV?
for example, maybe Electrify America's programs is better suited for Nissan Leaf's or Chevy Bolt's, etc. etc...
You’re welcome! They are all similar in terms of what they provide for your EV. The biggest thing for you to track is the max speed of the charger (50kw, 100kw, 350kw etc), because each EV has a different max rate they can accommodate.
@@goneelectric So speaking of charging, here is something I wonder about, and so do a lot of people but we could use some exact measuremens on if possible and that is this: ? What is say the exact amout of battey degradation that would occur to an EV's motor if say you were to DC Level 3 fast charge the motor, we'll say 25% of an annual 10K miles ? (for say 4 years?)
Most EV owners have home charging available and use that most of the time. Home charging is easier, cheaper and probably better for battery longevity. DC fast charging represents a small percentage of actual EV charging but accounts for >90% of CZcams videos on EV charging.
Hey John, thanks for the feedback. Absolutely agree that home charging is preferable/easier, which is why I focus on DC fast charging- it’s more problematic for a multitude of reasons.
@@goneelectric True. It would be difficult to make home charging exciting. From the preponderance of content on DCFC, some prospective EV buyers probably think that is a how EV charging works (or doesn’t).
@@goneelectric True. It would be difficult to make home charging exciting. From the preponderance of content on DCFC, many prospective EV buyers probably think that is a how EV charging works (or doesn’t).
Does it matter that the screen on the EA charger said to plug in first and then activate. You activated first.
No, you can either plug-in first, as directed by the screen prompt, or you can slide-to-activate via the app and then plug in.
You weren't going to get the higher charging speed at Chargepoint since you started above 20%. As you saw, you get the highest DC charging speed when you start at 20% or below for ID.4s. I realize you had time constraints but that's an important factor for people to take into consideration.
I own a 2023 Nissan Leaf and have been having buyers remorse because of Chademo even though I really love the car and level 2 charge at home. The car is used exclusively for around the town driving so I really never need to use DC fast charging. Watching this video has made my buyers remorse disappear…I’ll rent an ICE car or Tesla for long trips.
You’re not alone! I agree- Tesla/ICE is the way to go for long trips. Thanks for sharing!
You can barely make long trips with the plus. If you get the 40kWh regular leaf, then don't even consider making long trips.
@@callistoscali4344 I have an SV Plus but I never planned to make long trips with it. When I drove ICE cars ( long time Prius owner here) I always rented cars for long trips anyway … why put the extra 3-5k miles on my personal vehicle?
@@jaynefeeney Remember you are driving a BEV, not ICE or hybrid, so the value or depreciation of the vehicle is more about time rather than miles . You can use the plus for long trips, but you must know what to do and what to avoid doing.
We put 27,000 miles on our Leaf Plus in 8 months. Enjoy the 78kW charge speeds on EVgo newer sites. After about 450-500 miles in a day, charging gets tedious. Keeping speed down helps a lot with the overheating.
Charging is a major stumbling block for apartment dwellers. Are there any initiatives where you live to but in street based level 2 charge points? I know you can find some in shopping centres etc but there's a couple of councils in Sydney where I live running some pilot chargers but of course we don't have very high EV penetration in Australia yet. In the UK I know they are putting in some lamp post based chargers and other street solutions. However it's something that I forsee is going to be an issue for years without massive investment.
Totally agree- for mass adoption to take hold, apartment dwellers need to be able to charge at home. Some states offer money to network operators to help apartment owners set up charging in their buildings. But this is very complicated.
@@goneelectric If you have a garage you could always negotiate with the body corporate to put in a charger at your expense. Not going tp be cheap though.
I thought your EVGo experience at 50 kW was perfectly normal. At least that is the speed I encounter at pretty much any DC Fast Charging location I have ever been to with my Ioniq 5. Even the high powered Electrify America chargers I have tried to use are normally limited to around 50 kW. I don’t think I have ever seen anything more than 100 kW anywhere I have ever been.
That is frustrating. You should certainly be able to get more than 100kw at a 150kw+ dispenser with an Ioniq 5- as long as your battery SOC is low and it’s not too cold.
@@goneelectric The problem is not with the car’s capability, it’s just the fact that I have only been to a couple of charging sites that have been capable of giving anything more than 50 kW. Most of the EA, Francis, ChargePoint, EVGo locations I have been to don’t put out much, I don’t care how they are labeled. Just the other day I stopped at a supposedly 350 kW Electrify America unit and only got 60Kw. None of the other units were functioning of course. Charging infrastructure is a total mess.
I’ve had many similar experiences as you. It’s extremely frustrating and disappointing. Great cars and poor charging infrastructure.
@@glenngore6609 Tesla will open up it's network later this year so that will help a lot.
@@markstevens2937 That will not be any help at all in this part of the country. There is only one Tesla Supercharger in the entire western 2/3 of Oklahoma, none between I-40 and I-70 and none between I-25 and I-35. Tesla Superchargers are only located along Interstates, not US or state highways, and in the middle of the country it is 250-300 miles between those Interstates. The only one in this part of the country not on an Interstate is on US 50 in Lamar, Colorado. This is something Tesla needs to fix because people do not only drive on Interstates, the vast majority of traffic in the US is on US and State highways and people are not going to detour 200 miles out of their way to charge at an Interstate location. Tesla is not the only one doing this, all EA stations are located only along Interstates as well. Tesla’s Supercharger expansion plan for 2023 does not include any new charging locations in the middle of the country either.
you don't give it enough time on the charger to warm up the battery for full charge
It seems to me you made a case why we should only buy a Tesla, even if it's a used one.
This is a very reasonable takeaway.
Is Chargepoint FREE for fast charging - it is free in Nevada for Slow charging station - just wondering it is free for Fast Charging which is not really fast charging
No, unfortunately Chargepoint DC fast charging is not free here. There are a couple free CP level 2 units in the area, but the vast majority are not, and some can be quite costly.
Have you checked out beam arc chargers.
Unfortunately not. We don’t have any nearby, but I love the idea.
Beam is headquartered in san diego. They would love it if you were to do a podcast. They're an amazing co. Just bought a production co in Europe
Wow...43¢/kw-hr at E.A.?. That's 4 times what we pay to charge at home, which is 9.5¢/kw-hr from midnight to 6:00am (with Sacramento Municipal Utility District). At SMUD's Headquarters Building, there are several L2 chargers that are free.
The cost is actually a secondary frustration to the poor hardware reliability of DCFCs. Home charging is far preferable if you can get it (or at work), but still, long trips are a pain in a non-Tesla.
@@goneelectric I'm driving a Prius Prime (PHEV), so the battery is very small (6kw-hr) compared to a Leaf, Bolt, or Tesla. The car only has a J-1772 socket so CCFS's aren't even something I can use. PHEV's are a compromise: the longest EV mode range model was the 2nd gen Chevy Volt (53 miles), followed by the Honda Clarity (43 miles), and both have been discontinued due to low profit margins: the complexity of the powertrain made these cars expensive to manufacture and sales were poor since their overall cost of ownership and operation was about the same as a plain Hybrid like the Prius or Civic Hybrid. Even now, MSRP for the Prius Prime is $5,000 more than the Corolla Hybrid or regular Prius, but it is possible to recover that $5000: the larger lithium-ion battery in the Prius Prime is more efficient at regen braking and recapturing energy on downhills, compared to the NIMH battery in the regular Toyota hybrids: I can average 68mpg in Hybrid mode in my Prime, whereas our other car, a 2020 Corolla Hybrid, averages around 53. In the 3.5 years I've owned the Prime, my total cost for gasoline and electricity has been about 4.5¢/mile, with about 60% of the miles having been from gasoline and the other 40% from external battery charging. About half of the the battery charges were at home at 10¢/kw-hour, the other half were free, at some no-cost public L2 stations I know of here in Sacramento. When I bought my Prime, in 2019, I got a $4500 rebate from the Federal Government, $1500 from California, and $600 from SMUD, which brought the purchase price down to about the same ($23,000) that we paid for the Corolla Hybrid. But now that Toyota has used up their share of the original Rebate program, people are having to pay full MSRP for Prius Primes and Rav 4 Primes. And since both are only made in Japan, neither qualifies for the new $7,500 rebate.
Here's the dilemma facing new-car buyers who do a lot of research and are aware of all the pros and cons of PHEV's vs. BEV's: There are only a handful of PHEV's left after the departure of the Volt and Clarity, and none of them have more than 40 miles of EV range. And in the real world, to even get 40 miles out of them, you can't be running the a/c or the heater, or driving faster than about 35 mph, or be driving in hilly terrain, otherwise your EV range is maybe no more than 20 miles. PHEV's do only two things way better than BEV's: 1. On long road trips, you just drive it like a regular Hybrid: no "range anxiety", and no having to worry about whether the DCFS stations you pull into are even working or not. 2. If you live somewhere with sub-freezing winter climate, again, you just drive it like a regular Hybrid, and no worries about extremely slow DCFS charging a cold battery. Plus, the heater and defroster are working off of waste heat from the gasoline engine, so you get toasty warm heat, a lot warmer than what a BEV's heat pump can supply when it's -20°F outside.
If you live in someplace like Minnesota, where it's blistering cold for 5 months every winter, a Rav4 Prime is arguably a better choice than any BEV. It's got AWD standard, you can equip it with All-terrain tires or mud/snow tires. It's got an 18 kw-hr battery (about 13 kw-hr "available") that's good for 40 miles in-town, and in Hybrid mode, 40 mpg. The base model is $42,000, which is a lot more than you would pay for a Bolt, but the Bolt isn't AWD, and the Rav4 has more carrying capacity (not like a mini-van, but at least more than the Bolt). In places with a mild climate - Southern California, for example - the Bolt has a lot to offer for less than $30,000, especially if you can home-charge it. Long road trips are still an issue: to drive a Bolt from Long Beach (L.A. County) to Sacramento, you'd have to stop at least once to charge it, probably in Fresno, and if this was a mid-summer or mid-winter trip, and you were freely using the a/c or heater, you'd probably have to stop twice: once in Bakersfield, and again in Merced, for at least a full hour at each stop. That's not unacceptable, but if your roar trip was from Long Beach to Seattle, that's 1,160 miles, with 20,500 feet of ascent/descent along the way. In mild weather, no heat or a/c needed, that's a minimum of 6 stops along the way (I'm discounting the 259 mile range to 200 miles since there's a lot of ascent/descent on the route). That's at least 6 hours of charging time, in ideal conditions, which assumes that you find 6 chargers that actually deliver the full 50 kW that the Bolt can accept. There are a lot of videos on CZcams of people taking 2,000+ mile road trips in BEV's, including mid-winter in sub-zero temps, and one of these, a trip in a Tesla 3, the car's range on a full charge was barely 120 miles because he had to run the heater nearly continuously to keep the cabin at 68°F.
My experience with the Prius Prime is that it's costing me about 5¢/mile to drive for gas and external home battery charges. My previous car was a 2014 Subaru Outback that cost me 14¢/mile over the 30,000 miles I drove it, so the Prius is saving me about $900/year in gasoline cost for my average annual 10,000 miles of driving. If I were doing fewer long road trips and running more on electric, obviously I'd be saving more, but $900 is nothing to sneer at. Bottom line is that no one motor vehicle is perfect in every way. Have a boat or travel trailer you need to tow? You're going to have to own a pickup truck. Need to haul around a bunch of kids? You probably need a mini-van. Daily commute of no more than 120 miles, and have another ICE or Hybrid vehicle for longer road trips? A Chevy Bolt might be an ideal car for your commute. Toyota's Prius Prime and Rav 4 Prime PHEV's try to do a lot of different things as well as possible, but they're relatively expensive, and they're not recommended for towing even light trailers, because the MG2 electric motor stators aren't intended for sustained high-power operation and towing will make them run very hot. Towing trailers in BEV trucks is awful, too, as owners of the F-150 Lightning are finding out: 50 mile range on a full charge?! If you have to tow a trailer, especially on a long road trip, there's still no better vehicle than a diesel pickup truck.
@@laura-ann.0726 I disagree with a few things you said. Primarily concerning phev vs bev in cold weather. I'll start off by saying I've never driven a Prius plug in, only owned regular hybrid Prius vehicles. I live in Wisconsin and the Prius did fine in winter with snow tires and its traction control system. I now have a Tesla model Y and really don't notice much of a range drop in cold weather... until it drops below 10 degrees or so. I then lose about 20-25% of the range but that's true of pretty much every gas vehicle too. My Prius would drop from 50mpg. Down into the 35-39 mpg range in cold weather. All I do is if I know I'm going to be doing a lot of driving, I just bump up the charge level.
I bought a set of snow tires for the Tesla but they're still stacked in the garage as we were planning a trip to Florida in mid January but ended up cancelling. I didn't want to drive all that way on snow tires so I waited. The sport all season tires have been fine so far so I've just been holding out on putting the other tires on. The difference from just front wheel drive to all wheel drive on the Tesla probably makes a difference too.
That being said, the difference between the vehicles is just beyond comparison. I'll take the Tesla any day over the Prius. Ease of driving and safety being at the top of the list.
Just my opinion...
@@davekozlowski1266 - I'm surprised at the fuel consumption increase in your Prius, from 50mpg down to 35~39. That doesn't sound like something that should happen, unless the issue is that in extreme cold, the car's engine had to run more since the very cold battery was partially disabled from working properly. In my Prius Prime, winter weather definitely affects EV range: 38 miles in summer when the battery temp averages 85°F, and 32 miles in winter when the battery temp is 55°F. Gasoline consumption in hybrid mode doesn't seem to be affected by the seasons, but this is California and not the Upper Midwest. Our coldest winter days are only in the mid-'40's. Two of my friends have Tesla Y's and love them; I got a 100 mile ride in one last month, when we were car-pooling to a Holiday luncheon at the office I retired from back in 2013. Nice car, comfortable seats, easy to get in and out of, except no grab handle above the passenger door sill, which I was surprised to find missing on a car as new as this. I thought all modern cars had grab handles above the doors.
@@laura-ann.0726 yeah, that kind of mileage drop is typical. My wife's Audi Q5 drops from 29mpg down to 22 mpg.
Lol, 🤣 although our definition of cold weather is a little different. We had a cold streak in December of 7 days of below 0 temps. Worse was the 20mph winds! I think our wind chill was -35° or so. That's why people want remote starters for their gas cars!
And this is eactly why I'm not ready to take the EV plunge. What's the outside temp, are the batteries conditioned, what's the charging speed, are the chargers available, how long does the 20%-80% charge take? Time is money. For me, trips are the following, gas up, input my destination, follow the nav app. No range anxiety. I only need to go to one gas station to fill up.
This is very reasonable. Hopefully more reliable public charging becomes available over the next couple years. Shame because the cars themselves are great!
is that a lucid @18:20
This demonstrates the massive advantage Tesla and their charging network has over the competition.
Eventually we will get to a charging standard and it will be Tesla's
For those thinking that Ultium Charge 360 Network will be their savior, it will depend on how many, where they are located and are they reliable?
If you are city driving only and have a home charging setup. These very inexpensive EV's are a good choice, they are small cars, easy to park in most places and for the most part you will rarely task it on long range.
But most people live in the suburbs where range anxiety is a real worry. Those low cost EV's will not cut it. Tesla's with the rebates and price cuts are a much better option. More range, reliable charging network, more cargo space.
These video's if anything show the advantage Tesla has.
Also notice the charging stations with a LCD screen? Many of them are damaged by vandals. You gotta love the simplicity of the Tesla charger. All the communication is done with the car or phone app.
Agreed! Hoping that Tesla opens their DCFC network in North America soon.
@Gone Electric There has to be a standard. And it looks like it will be Tesla's. But right now the legacy guys are in a corner. They know the charging network is a major issue if you are not Tesla.
The other worry is supply & demand. Teslanhas the largest charging network and #2 needs a telescope to see #1. That said, can Tesla's charging network handle the load? Right now Tesla is selling every car they are making.
I'm still waiting for every fast food joint off the Interstate with several Tesla stalls to entice people to charge their and have a meal.
I dont get why all DC charging companies (ex: evgo, chargepoint) do not have 150kwh and 350kwh ports only unlike Electrify America which is truly promoting CCS DC charging. Why is 50 kwh acceptable nowadays for charging an EV?
Moving forward, 50kw is not acceptable for mass adoption.
What happens if it is cold outside
Folks have documented significant issues with cold-weather charging. If you live in a cold environment, you’re generally going to charge quite a bit slower, unless you have battery pre-conditioning.
Why are you on a 350kW charger? Your car won’t charge faster than 125. And that’s only for a few minutes. You blocked a 350kW charger for no reason. The 100kW charger is all you need. Stop blocking 350kW chargers with a car that can’t utilize them.
I was only their for a few mins to test whether that station’s dispensers could supply my car max speed (135kw). I needed to use the 350kw dispenser to do that, and I kept my eye out for anyone who might need it for a full charge. Thanks for watching!
This is ok if your life consists of finding chargers. Maybe the government will give you welfare to support your family, since you can’t fulfill a real job while chasing car chargers. This is just the control that the Socialist government wants.
Between the videos and my own experiences, I'm convinced that EA doesn't actually want people using their service. It's a bunch of bull...
Doesn’t want/care is a reasonable conclusion.
If EVs are so great .. have the presidential motorcade go all EV and see how that works out.
Tesla is the only charge point worth counting on.
I love Tesla
With no plans to build anymore power plants in Calif. these problems are just going to get worse!
I’m hoping for change, but I’m afraid it won’t come.
Im surprised you were surprised you had to unlock the car doors to disconnect the cable. That is by design to stop someone unplugging you whilst you are away from the car. Or did i miss a nuance?
My surprise was that I was finished charging- the dispenser directed me to unplug, and my charge port light returned to white- yet I still needed to click unlock on my fob to detach the plug. It’s never happened anywhere else, except for that EVgo!
@@goneelectric hmm I'll have to check with my car on both ac and dc. Thanks.
For me, a solid green light means the charger is ready to unplug. Solid white means it registers something plugged in and it stays locked until I push the unlock button.
Why I still would go Tesla even tho I like the Ioniq 5. Th EA station at the Walmart across the street from me in Walmart is actually pretty reliable (East Brunswick, NJ) but gets packed during rush hour. Also have eight 250KW chargers at the Wawa a mile a way, and 16 150KW chargers at the mall 3 miles away, and a bunch on the turnpike stops a few miles from me. Also 6 free (2hr limit) Volta stations near me. Don't have home charging in condo complex but surrounded by L3 & L2 chargers. Have a RAV4 Prime so can only use the free Volta chargers which work good for me. Also come of the ChargePoints near me are free and more of the free ones waiting to be activated.
That’s some good public charging infrastructure, at least in terms of number of chargers. I supposed reliability is a different question. My folks just chose an Ioniq 5 over a Tesla because they are lucky to have home charging at their condo, and they don’t take long trips. Thanks for sharing!
Using only DC fast chargers is so expensive. Costs more than filling my Prius per fill and I have more "mileage" per fill as well. The advantage of EV's are pretty much shot from a cost savings if you are stuck using fast charging network. The issue is that the state of EA and others broken chargers. The companies put them in, but don't maintain them. Its always a crap shoot using EA for sure. We have a few Tesla's and while there are problems every now and then, once plugged in they work great and no messing around with payments etc. The limited number of chargers for all these new EV's is a problem as well. I will be sticking with my large truck as well hauling my 5th wheel as well, as it take a few mins to effectively put in about 2.2MWh of power into the diesel tank. Keep up the good work sir and its good to see the state of of chargers in that area as well. 🤠👍
Cost of DCFC is pretty bad, but its still generally a lot cheaper than gas here in SoCal. I often elect to charge at non-EA DCFCs (VW gives free EA for 3 yrs) just because they’re more reliable, and sometimes I just need to have the energy! But yeah, maintenance is pretty atrocious at EA and many others. Tesla has the public charging for sure, especially from a maintenance standpoint. Thanks for sharing!
ckhalloc88: That's a point. For charging, home charging appears to crush fast charging from a cost point AND being able to choose a nice slow speed that minimizes stress on the battery.
If BEV's are truly going to go into mass adoption mode, the charging situation needs to be SERIOUSLY sorted out for the large proportion of people who can't do home charging or need to take lots of trips.
As a Tesla shareholder, it's fine with me if the solution is for Tesla to hold a gigantic proportion of the market share, but for the good of everyone overall, having healthy competition and lots of choices would be FAR better. Plus AGW demands the BEV buildout proceeds as fast as practical.
That was pretty terrible, overall. That gives credence to the anti-EV folks who have a bad impression of charging, re lack of reliability, consistency, etc.
At least 95% of the time, gas pumps just work. And you don't have weird waiting times, etc, just put the credit card in, pump the gas quickly, and go.
If the competition can't get serious, Tesla should just go ahead and do the job and basically blanket the earth with Tesla charging. Clearly with some effort, many places manage to keep those reliable.
Well said! On the flip side, my local EA station finally has a trashcan. Incremental improvements…
Free for you but the cost of Electrify America was 0.43$/kWh
So what if Tesla offered you CCS charging?
When that happens, we’ll gladly use Tesla superchargers.
@@goneelectric Not opened yet, but you can see those magic docks.
Wow! What a stressfully long ordeal! I'm stressed just watching this video at the idea of going through this hassle.
Tell me about it!
These charger locations are the reason Ev's are getting a bad rap. Chargers that don't work at all and/or don't work as they are supposed too. Go to Tesla superchargers. I would never buy an ev if I had to put up with those charging stations.
Agreed. Sad because the cars themselves are great.
Q: Electrify America vs. EVgo vs. Chargepoint: Which offers the best DC fast charging experience? A: None of the above!
Pretty much!
Those are all 2nd. T
I have used them all. They all suck. 50/50 chance of them working.
Bring on NACS with magic docks please !
Waiting patiently!
Three horrible experiences. This is NOT a way to live with an EV. I am a Tesla Model Y owner a his charging experience is like a nightmare...
Agreed. The supercharger network is the most compelling reason to buy Tesla.
No cover from weather
No attendant to help
No convenience store for drinks/snacks/food/supplies
NO AIR CONDITIONED, attended, CLEAN REST ROOMS
No thank!
Why would a few dollars saved for a rich EV owner pit up with this lack of facilities?
Thing is to have a charger at home, especially if you're "rich"... Not to mention if you're rich, the relatively expensive 350kw chargers can get it done pretty quick... When they're working right that is lol
@@Piffydaily Demand power, like 500 KW, is many thousands per month, not your simple house power. Large 3-phase HV lines feed a huge humming transformer the HOA is really going to appreciate. Pipedream is a good description.
@@LarryButler-kp3se lol true..but no I'm not saying that you can have a level 3 charger at home, which you can not... I'm just saying you utilize those 350kw chargers to get the job done quick, especially if you don't mind paying... Me on the other hand I do my pain, I've been driving in Genesis g80e since April 2023... I was blessed to have several free 40kw DC charges at libraries & public parks, saved so much money... But now too many Uber/lyft people have burned them out 😤. So now I have to pay & I've been experimenting with the different charge companies, talk about the five stages of grief!😅
What a nightmare compared to Tesla charging.
Agreed! We need better.
50kw rated EVGOs always give me 35kw for my Mach E 😤
I’ve had similar experiences. It’s frustrating!
I have a 2024 Volvo c40. I was at 51 % charge. I charged to 90% my credit card was charged $30.. that's ridiculous
Charging these ev cars is pain ij the ass. I wouldn't advice anybody to buy ev.
This alone would keep me from ever buying a EV both my gas and my diesel cars charge to 100% in 10 minutes
Video starts at 3:20.
This is why ev are only worth it if you have level 2 charging at home. Way too inconvenient to not have home charging. Also dc fast charging is really only meant for road trips. Also all your issues is why I bought a Tesla. With tesla super chargers no need to sign up for apps. The supercharges just always work and at 250k watts it really only take like 15 min to charge to 70-80%
I can’t dispute much of what you said! The rash of new EVs that come with free DCFC has had a large effect on public charger availability. People want free, even if they have the ability to charge at home. Agree about level 2, though I’d say that some will be able to get away with level 1 if they don’t do lots of daily driving.
Benton Tong: But if you drive a lot of long distances, like a long commute, wouldn't fast charging a LOT every week be very bad for battery life? From what I've seen, even with LiFePO batteries, slower charging is still likely better for the longest battery life (their durability is longer, but far from infinite).
And I get it that for most people who only take real road trips on occasion, that with BEV's that get well upwards of 200 mile range, that issue is mostly a moot point.
Where I am in northern California there is no infrastructure within 100 miles so I'm good with gas. My home electrical is a cent under 90 cents per so not cheaper than gas. Not a chance I'm ever going to buy an ev, overpriced cars that solve nothing
I'll stick with ICE!
You could have done this message in 5 minutes - way too much wasting of time.
Nothing to promote here pal. Disaster.
Ya rt evgo is way faster i drive tesla