Douglas Murray in conversation with Jordan Peterson
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- čas přidán 3. 09. 2018
- This is a wide ranging and thought provoking conversation between Jordan Peterson & Douglas Murray on IQ, Politics and the Left.
Copyright 2018 UnHerd - Not to be reproduced without explicit consent, all rights reserved.
#UnHerd #JordanPeterson #DouglasMurray
its incredible that we live in a time when i can click a few buttons and basically be at a table with some of the great minds of our times. amazing.
is this a joke?
@@mayakovsky8574 No, think about it. It is truly amazing and we take it for granted.
@@Zeriel00 haha, that is true. The only thing lefties are grateful is for being cuckolds.
@@danielt2505 The level of political analysis on the right is truly amazing
"high level ideas" as another big brain "classical liberal" would say
“They don’t care for the poor, they just hate the rich. It’s not the same thing!”
I will never forget that line.
@Isa IDC who said it.
@Isa Your dad called, he told me to tell you to stop crying on the internet and man the fuck up.
@Isa troll
RainSauzer h
@Ed is the anagram for "extreme left wing" actually JEW?
Note to self. When forming an opinion about a controversial figure, read or listen to the person him or herself, directly. I was already a big fan of Douglas Murray. Re mr. Peterson, I do not see a hateful reactionary who is out to get oppressed minorities. I see a thoughtful person genuinely concerned with retaining some principles of universal fairness.
This is good advice. Now go watch a trump speech, the man is an ass, arrogant snob, petty, vengeful and so on but he is not a bigot and he sincerely loves his country.
@@hitandruncommentor Nor is Black Lives Matter/Antifa a "peaceful protest" movement.
meerkat1954 oh you mean the marxist that would rule on a hill of ashes than actually assume responsibility for themselves?
Peterson is actually quite a leftie himself.
Simon Thurnheer yes he is. A moderate, sensible nonmarxist left. I’m a independent moderate. What’s your point?
At the very beginning of the BLM/ George Floyd protests here in the States, I found a Douglas Murray interview regarding the ensuing protests and riots in the UK, and his words put me at ease. I was so frazzled by what seemed to be a monolithic effort by the media, politicians, and even some very close friends to do away with due process, history, and data in response to one man's death. It was refreshing to hear someone speak in a measured and fair manner about how asinine it is to damn the son for the sins of the father or how blanket statements about an entire profession or race should never be considered as arguments made in good faith.
I was in a very dark place at that moment, and he gave me hope. I thought I had lost myself. I felt insane, but his words validated my own suspicions about this movement's motives.
I am so thankful for the work of these men and for the tireless efforts of those like them. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
More than asinine, it is malevolent.
I so relate to your experiences. Listening to both these gentlemen often keeps me sane. I spend as much time watching their interviews and talks as many people spend on social media these days. 😀
I'm glad you've found your way out from your dark place. But I think you need to rethink some things. Above, you say "that blanket statements about an entire profession or race should never be considered as arguments made in good faith", and the very next sentence you lump all the tens to hundreds of thousands of BLM protestors from all those cities in the U.S. and elsewhere into one group of which you are suspicious of their "motives".
My opinion of Peterson and Murray is that they are just fauning acolytes of tcorporate imperialists and plutocrats ruling mainstream society. Makes me think this whole conversation in the video is an exercise in diversionary scrutiny of "left vs. right" issues, designed to obscure where and how power is concentrated, entrenched, and wielded in society to keep we, the masses divided and ineffectual at combating it.
For example, perhaps, an "IQ hierarchy" of economic wealth develops individually in each class, profession, human endeavor, etc. I'll buy that with reservations, but there is no way that any form of "stratospheric IQ" correlates to "stratospheric wealth" broadly through society. In fact I bet quantitative study would indicate the opposite. The very mechanisms through which power/wealth is accumulated and entrenched over time (inherited and transferable regardless of merit, social responsibility or damage to society) are designed to prevent this from happening. This conversation is a smoke screen to hide the unethical, socially corrosive, and ultimately empire-collapsing nature of the effects of wealth/power hierarchies in modern society. Our socio-economic system needs changing if we want a just, equitable society that supports our autonomy to pursue personally meaningful lives. (It also needs changing if we want to avoid environmental collapse and destruction, like virtually every other imperialistic society before us)
Same with Peterson's characterization and dismissal of "collectivism" as "pathological". What is is a multi-national corporation except a large collectivized social organism in competition with other multi-nationals? Only here the competition for survival, primacy, power (whatever it is the super wealthy/powerful actually want...their mother's recognition?) amongst multi-nationals and corporate elites pays little heed to the impacts their behaviour has at the scale of our lives and what makes us happy as individuals, families, and communities, or indeed society (and the surrounding environment). Corporate elites and multi-nationals are like how Tolkien portrays Smaug in The Hobbit. An irresistably powerful force, inscrutable in its motives except for its underlying lust for gold/wealth, and to which individual humans are like mere flies on an elephants back...
So according to Peterson, if people want to get together to act collectively to combat entrenched power in society its "pathological", but he seems fine to let collectivized economic institutions run amok in pointless combat (which is pathological in the sense that it damages society and the environment). Society needs power to be fluid (in time and space), and easily concentrated and then dispersed as needed in order for us to exist sustainably and harmoniously with each other and with nature. Not entrenched into teetering wealth hierarchies where the experiences and knowledge of people on the bottom rarely, if ever makes it into the awareness of people on the top who are making decisions that largely influence what society does and how we impact the environment around us.
Not a wit about this conversation is about challenging power or hierarchy or examining its effects. Which is exactly what large parts of the discourse around the BLM movement was all about. These fellas just want to prop up the system that's keeping their bread buttered (did I mention how empires virtually always collapse?
👍
Hello from Granada, Spain. If you ever need a chat, feel free.
Two of my favorite people together in one video. Outstanding!
Me too
@@infiniLor sigh
@@rigavitch 🤔
@Obadiah 118 who are you talking about?
@Darek Kubow I totally enjoy those boiz as well, but I prefer this flow
How refreshing to listen to Dr. Peterson share his thoughts and expertise without being interrupted and attacked at every turn....not a bit of defensiveness or offense from either of these two. This is how it should be done.
douglass murray is a heavy hitter, watch his interview called the death of europe, its fascinating...
Smart and Educated reasonable people that understand many things don’t dye their hair blue and no platform people.
That is my firm fascistic belief.
it was a discussion not a debate or leftist "interview"
TheyCalledMeT it was a conversation not a discussion 😎🙃
Jordan's analysis is often sound. In my opinion he goes wrong when he gets to the point of actual political decision making, where he decides what party or which politician to support or oppose. At that point he seems to forget all his intellectual analysis and go with his emotions... he's like, those darn lefties annoy me so I'll support right-wingers, even though the right-wing parties he supports are totally into the identity (us versus them) politics he claims to oppose.
We need a part 2 of this insightful conversation in 2021.
When emotion, anger, accusations, insinuations and indictments are removed from the equation, what you're left with is two intelligent individuals having an honest and forthright conversation about serious issues that have the potential to lead us into the light of unity, stability, safety and prosperity, or, create deeper identity based divides that lead to fierce tribalism and ultimately violence. Listening to informed thinkers with a higher resolution of insight and understanding is so refreshing and is desperately needed. Thanks Douglas Murray and Jordan Peterson.
" Listening to informed thinkers with a higher resolution of insight and understanding is so refreshing and is desperately needed." Agreed, unfortunately, that isn't what sales, everything now is down to a quick sound bite and maybe a video showed over and over again that brings up emotion and pushes away ration discourse.
The truth is a large portion of the population will vote by emotion and the powers- that -be understand this.
Interestingly I find people who just watch the news are the most affected with knee jerk emotional outbursts who have very little to back up any intellectual thought. They go day to day with fear and outrage, not understanding that there are reasons their confirmation bias is being fed to them in a repetitive way, it is usually to push an agenda.
@@Rambleon444
True, alas.
czcams.com/video/hslPNjqcXMkh/video.htmlttps://czcams.com/video/hslPNjqcXMk/video.html
How refreshing to hear two grown-ups talking together, after all the juvenile shouting from Antifa, Owen Jones etc.
Amen!
@Minimalism 😂 owen Jones - what a complete idiot.
@Minimalism he's a good boy strawmanned by reactionaries.
@Minimalism name of the book?
Minimalism The issue with Owen is not that he is not intelligent, the issue is that he is a socialist who actually believes in the cause of socialism. I hope I don’t need to explain why that’s a mark against the man.
I seriously can not remember being told what kind of suffering communism has caused through history when I attended school. It was always, nationalism is bad and Hitler was worse than Satan. Mao and Stalin was hardly mentioned.
absoluttchamp Same, my Mandarin class had a picture of Mao above the chalkboard even though after high school I learned Mao killed upwards of 100 million people. Also no mention at all of the Armenian Genocide or Ukrainian Holodomor. (Btw there is so spell check for Holodomor but there is one for Holocaust).
Postmodernism was a mandatory course for a programming degree I did.
David we are kinda fucked in Australia tbh. Vote lib dems.
David Leyonhjelm is the only consistently liberal politician in Australia.
czcams.com/video/EORmhVwwWoQ/video.html
That's because they are planning the horrors of Mao and Stalin again, and they need you to be caught off guard.
My God! my brain is exploding from too much common sense and intellectual thought.
Hahahaha.you won't see this on the BBC.
We all enjoy long form discussions and tbh I felt uncomfortable listening although nothing they said warrants it, been drummed into us for too long there are taboo subjects
Jordan Peterson is one of the most brilliant minds of our generation. Thankful to have him back and on the road to recovery. With great struggle comes great wisdom. The best work of Peterson is yet to come. Excited to see his continued contribution to humanity. God Bless.
People put some really unrealistic expectations on him. He's still just a man he never said he was perfect or had no problems himself people are so rude sometimes. I'm so glad he's recovering what a horrible ordeal he has endured with some assholes actually celebrating his having been ill that's how much they hate superior intellect.
fuck u sick son of a bitch . he is not smart at all .
@@arslanshahzad7921 hahahaha
He's certainly very smart, but him being one of the most brilliant minds of our generation is an overstatement. What makes him good at what he does is being highly analytical, not being a genius. In contrast what is plaguing the left isn't stupidity, it's over-relliance on emotionality and idealism, sometimes cynically.
Brilliant??? A man named Webster wants to talk to you.
Never heard of Douglas Murray, really enjoyed this interview. Really like Douglas Murray.
The Madness of Crowds and The Strange Death of Europe are great reads. DM is quite a deep thinker and competent writer.
You'll not be disappointed. He publically calls out the madness and absurdities occurring in our society these days and demonstrates just how ridiculous much of what's going on really is just that. There's lots of interviews with him on YT.
watch the death of europe interview....hes just fascinating..the interviewer was also iintelligent...
He's a very clever man says the truth
Check the strange death of Europe 👍
Try this, with Peter Robinson - Hoover Institution: czcams.com/video/eQXHc-tJMXM/video.html
Man I wish this was a Joe Rogan length conversation I could listen to these two for hours
4.5 hours with joints
Really, their conversation seemed like it was only 10 minutes long, it was 48!
@@MrWackozacko Gods, i wish i could afford cannabis
I'm 10 minutes in, and it feels like only a few seconds....
Douglas, Jordan, let me ask you something... have you Tried DMT
Two of my most favourite intellectuals having a discussion.
2 YEARS LATER, MORE RELEVANT THAN EVER
The beginning aged poorly... "I don't know who these alt-righters are"
You don't have to look for them very hard now, do you?
PrdxlDrm
The Wignats and Nignats are pretty “irrelevant” still bud.
How do we know how relevant it would have been in the 1600s? Or even the day it happened?
Besides its easy to seem relevant across decades if you always insist on discussing things in terms of 2 labels "left" and "right". You find the same generic themes come up every time that happens
Here its not as bad, here, because they dont use it as a tool to paint people they disagree with as holding a certain opinion. They also give care to discuss things whilst considering things like Marxism or capitalism etc. But they (specifically Jordan) does tend to overuse left and right to refer to political groups or societal groups when he really ought to use a different, more specific characteristic to define said groups. It somewhat detracts from some of his statements because his persona is that of someone rational who likes to look at things as openly as possible, but here he is simplifying whole groups of people as leftists and rightists.
I love JP, but thats something I'm a little sad to see him do during this conversation. Im fine with it - we all make those kinds of referential mistakes from time to time, and im sure if you asked Jordan he would clarify with something more befitting of his image as a rational debater. But its a habit all too many of us have adopted when discussing politics, and its an insidiously unproductive trope to keep coming back to when having such heavy conversations.
@@swine13 COMMENT TOO LONG AND ALSO MISSING THE POINT
@@ParadoxalDream The alt-right are an obscure group with a tiny membership. The phrase 'alt-right' is just a weponized term.
Douglas Murray's impish grin is one of the wonders of the modern world
Matthew Snyder I know he’s gay but I really fancy him 😂😂😂
Had to look up “impish”. Agree 100%😂
@@tillyt4054 So do I he's sexy as hell. His intelligence is delicious!
Ray Davies, the bard and engaged critic par excellence, has exactly the same.
@@theohuioiesin6519 lmao I dunno what I expected but the first thing I got back when I searched was "befitting of an imp" I was like
🤦♂️
Then it clarified with "mischievous" which is so spot on with my instinctual guess that I would be amazed if that kind of thing didn't happen to me all the time.
Ahhhh, 'recalling the definitions of English words with surprising accuracy' - why the flying f*** are you my only natural skill....
Whites are oppressors
Non-Whites are victims.
But race doesn't exist
Yet I love racial diversity
and I celebrate our differences
because we are all the same
So let's celebrate diversity by mixing together..
But only in white countries...
Ngama Shaka you talk like leftists with bad intentions. Hahaha
I wanna be an individual like all the other individuals just like me!
As a huWhite person, Benjie is my friend... "I don't give a damn about the so-called browning of America." -- Ben Shapiro June 6, 2017 twitter.com/benshapiro/status/875730927002963968
Non white countries are feverishly trying to get rid of their minority whites and the lefties don't bat an eye.
Ngama Shaka lol
You don't have to be an ethno-nationalist to be concerned about uncontrolled immigration into Europe.
The west will ruin itself if immigration continues like yhis . !
Yet if you are, you get labeled as one.
Mir Iqbal it’s already too late until we do things that will demonise us
@@DisconnectedRoamer : Start it. It is a live or perish situation !!
First of all ' Support Mr Trump '
👍
But you have to become one to solve the problem.
Heaven knows I have missed civilized and intellectual conversation like this. Cerebral food for your intellect to chew on and digest.
Wouldn’t it be nice if there were still dinner parties to discuss these thoughts as entertainment?
@@junesnow5422 I agree, semi formal events where ideas are explored and not just out right cancelled. Both parties can then leave feeling wiser as they explored the opposite of their world views. I remember a similar event when I studied philosophy in university, two opposing matters discussed by a collection of veteran professors over dinner and the guests had the opportunity to ask questions to flesh out the point of views.
Two of the greatest thinkers in the West. What a wonderful program! 💖
motorcop505 North America*
@@angous1 Douglas Murray is from North America now?
@@rlucas7374 Anglo-saxon. My bad.
Noam Chomsky Trump beats both hands down.
how the hell did Trump get into that sentence! lol!
Thus far, this conversation is ageing like a fine wine.
I have been following the viewpoints of both these intellectuals independent of each other. I was amazed to see them speak together. So refreshing to hear a calm conversation void of ignorant lobbyists
Me too.
The answer to this is STUDY HISTORY!
You would say that, but it is not enough. I studied history in the university and a lot of my colleagues look at the history events like a religion, it was either good or bad depending on if their beliefs match the historical events. The problem is that the mass media and most part of the consumers of that media have a positive or romantical view of the comunism as idea.
What do you think of Oliver Stone's Untold History of the United States (if you've seen it)? I watched some & it boggles me a bit, have to rewind a lot.
@@rubenmanceracarrillo8176
Absolutely true.
That is true but there are some who look at history with a biased mind and only use the parts which benefit their world view.
I did NOT know that this conversation had taken place. I am so psyched to listen to this! These two guys are two of my favorite modern day thinkers.
What a refreshing conversation between two adults. I actually learned quite a lot from that. Thank You!
The lightning, exposure and audio in this piece was executed by a master. Thank you!
I agree too thanks for sharing this both of you ...
Thanks
European culture has a right to exist. Period.
Not period, full stop! Stop saying period ffs.
@@fionagregory8078 Can I recommend you the Oxford Style Manual? Then we can discuss punctuation a bit more seriously at least
@Ian TB let's try it again, shall we? Here goes:
European culture has a right to exist, menstruation.
European cultural preservation was more or less Hitler's argument
@@fawwazshah It was his cover story. while he grabbed power and other nations. not the same thing. not to be used by those of nefarious intent and dark hearts.
Two of my favorite people, not putting others down but looking to the issues and seeking understanding and a better way.
John Williams yes! Listening to them is like a breath of fresh air
Two intellectual titans. 315 people couldn’t understand why they were talking about.
What you are trying to tell me is that I am too dumb, or ignorant to understand what these two are saying? What if I know exactly what they are saying because firstly I reject the left right dichotomy, and no that doesn't make me some sort of bing brained radical centrist. I am a nationalist, a tribalist, an advocate for the interests of white people. Yes my people are the best in the world for the kinds of society, culture, art, architecture, philosophy, and such that they built and only they can maintain. There is no such thing as equality and only the weak profess equality of all men. There is no such thing as equality. At the end of the day might makes right. If you claim to be righteous but not have the power to ensure that justice is served then you are not just nor righteous. A righteous man will not suffer evil to be done in his presence because to do so is not righteousness. Only a weak man can tolerate the intolerable, for he has no true solid ground to stand on. He will be consumed by heathens, and savages who either wield the levers of power or who work at the behest of those who do truly manipulate the levers of power. MIGHT MAKES RIGHT, AND BLOOD AND SOIL!
@@davidward3848 but muslims and other immigrants will replace almost all whites so does might still make right then?
@@F11994 of course it does. Do you think I will or men like me will simply allow our country to be handed over to those who don't deserve it
@@davidward3848 its already done its going to be too late soon what are you going to do about it. Not enough people will support you so that you can succeed.
@@F11994 As long as one white man who understands who he is breaths the fight isn't over.
What a pleasure, even a relief to hear a sensible discussion among adult men without preconceived notions, ideological bias and the contentious discourse that plagues our society today....thank you gentlemen.
I like many today are anxious for Jordan, as he"s healing well now, coming back and speaking about what's currently happening. In a world seemingly insane now we need some clarity before we all decend and go bezerk. I"m a Trump supporter and will vote again for him and believe, as I, all who support Trump really appreciate Jordan Peterson. We"re not the crazy people Democrats like to categorize us as.
I have never actually worked out why anybody would vote for Trump. I can't believe that all Trump voters are what is portrayed in the media. It is too easy to edit out cogent arguments or reasoning in favour of dribbling retards. I could do the same thing for any political party/movement anywhere in the world. Showing me the worst of a group usually just makes me suspicious, I would really like to know how he managed to convince so many people to vote for him. With regard to Peterson, I'm afraid he is not a serious thinker/intellectual. I would suggest - just as a counterposition to read the article by Nathan Robinson entitled " The intellectual we deserve" czcams.com/video/o5SDHILLLwE/video.html His article carries the endorsement of Noam Chomsky, who is a world-renowned intellectual.
2 of the most thought provoking logical people I have listened to albeit way above my level.
You guys say we learned half the lesson of the 20th century - well, speak for yourself chaps. My homeland, and most of Eastern Europe did learn it and aren’t remotely close to forgetting it.
I understand your point of view. But I can say for myself, being born and raised in Europe too, in Portugal, never ever had I been introduced to what happed in the USSR while on school or anywhere.
Meaning that, if I had not searched it myself, trust me, only half the lesson would have been learned. (This is just my honest experience and opinion and I understand your background might be completely different from mine)
Answer to that is manifold, to give you a helicopter view. On the level of ideology: Communism does not sell, neither does Nazism for that matter. On the level of mixing cultures - people are deeply anxious about it not only instinctively (which can by dismissed as bigotry) but due to direct experience eg. (but by no means only) Yugoslavia. On artistic and intellectual and levels there are multitude of deep descriptions and analyses, and not only Russian. For instance in Polish literature you get insights into more subtle depravations of Marxist intellectual's minds eg. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insatiability and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Captive_Mind or a strikingly accurate play about the consequences of the counterculture en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tango_(play).
It got nothing to do with what you stated that's your own theory/inferiority complex talking, we don't know because of what Peterson said in regards to our education system being dominated by Leftism, & also for geographical/cultural reasons we aren't where you are from so somewhat ignorant on the matter, Eastern Europe can be argued to not even be part of 'the West' anyway some Eastern Europe countries are still in the process of aligning themselves with the West!
That is the thing: you do not regard the "Easter Europe" as "the West", while we do. What is this "West" then? Geography, cultural tradition (Christian? individualistic?) or current state (wealth, cultural marxism etc). Is Japan the west for instance? Do we have inferiority complex? Surely, we got beaten and cheated badly. You however have a superiority complex? We both and collectively will pay for it, we already do actually.
And your education system is screwed up because uncle Stalin was Americas greatest ally against Hitler, so to keep the appearance of morality unspeakable Soviet crimes had to remain hidden ( the "Easter Europe" had to remain conceptually nonexistent).
Classic response I didn't understand or like what you said so it's a 'word salad', maybe that's just how I write bro....... bare minimum I can write a response to what someone said without going for 'you're a little bit simple aren't you buddy' I'm going to be so very interested in what you've got to say after that LOL, grow the fuck up dude or at-least keep your opinion to yourself!
Crazy that this is from 2 years ago, things have only continued in the same direction. Hope we don’t look back ominously on conversations like these.
czcams.com/video/hslPNjqcXMkh/video.htmlttps://czcams.com/video/hslPNjqcXMk/video.html
During these difficult days of Coronavirus, economic shutdown, racial strife, and political upheaval we have been lucky to have someone like Douglas Murray to throw light on what is happening and very unlucky not to have Jordan Peterson, because of his health problems, unable to do the same.
Man, this should be 3 hours longer than what it is.
more of the conversation here. czcams.com/video/tIwFGS6dLKs/video.html
Love Douglas
Two of the great minds of our time together in one room. This is glorious and everyone needs to listen and hear what they have to say.
Two of my favorites. I just finished Dr. Peterson's Maps of Meaning and I am now working on Madness of Crowds. Both are great books. It feels like i struck gold.
I'm afraid you're looking for a pretty sophisticated reason why the world is not as appalled by Stalin's deeds as by Hitler's. I think there's a simpler explanation and it is the fact that the Soviet regime was among the "winners" of WWII. Nobody considered asking them why so many people disappeared or were starved to dearh, or were deported, or were put in camps during the war or in the twenty-something years before that. Nobody asked them, the fellow victors, and it was great for Stalin. And he went on to show the coming western intellectuals what they wanted to see. And they were all happy to say they were Marxists. And did not ask a single question. But we (from the former Soviet block) are still here to deal with the consequences.
Maya Mladenova well said and much truth in your response. Winners write the history of a war.
I think it is slightly more complicated than that, you could easily get away with killing your own people than you could with foreigners, especially in the days when Stalin perpetrated his worst crimes. If technology and communication technology was the same today as it was then, I believe that Saddam Hussien would still be in power, or at least one of his psychopath sons would! What leaders of countries don't hear, get's no reaction! (Look at The Kurdish Peoples for an example) When they were killing ISIS more than everyone else, they were superheroes, now that Turkey has decided that they are all terrorists, no one will speak for them!
My theory is because Communism was never put on trial. The Nazis had to face Nuremberg and rightly so. The Socialists have never had to answer for their evil. Because the worst of their deeds were waged against their own people and because of the closed nature of the Soviet Union there was little appetite for an inquest. Also, the line between Nazi ideology and their deeds is clearer.
Maya...It hasn't been that long since Solzhenitsyn came to the U.S. to promote his Gulag Archipelago, and went on the lecturing circuit. After listening to Peterson one day, I decided to go listen to the Harvard speech he had given. I wondered since Solzhenitsyn was so popular when he came over to the U.S. in the 70's what happened? Why are so many now in the west becoming enamored of socialism? One thing I heard was that after his Harvard speech he fell out of favor with many in Academia. Guess they didn't like him invoking God, or something like that. I am becoming horrified at how many baby boomers, and young people in my area think socialism is great. They have already either forgotten, or just want to put blinders on, or both. I am telling every young person I run into to read Solzhenitsyn. It's only one little thing I can do. (One day in a checkout line I noticed a man wearing a red T shirt with a pic of Lenin on it, along with the statement, "If you can read this you are a socialist." I found out he was a teacher).
Personally I believe the marginal role of anything remotely resembling fascism in the UK is rooted as much in Eurosceptecism and jingoism (they're the ones we fought a war against) as it is in principled anti-authoritarianism.
"The facts of the world don't necessarily line up with our moral desires." Interesting.
Proper intellectual talking with another proper intellectual. Holy shit this is glorious.
When listening to these interesting, nuanced discussions, it sometimes occurs to me - who do SJWs listen to? Which thinkers do they read? What podcasts are they listening to? Seriously, where do their ideas come from? Have they even bothered to listen to Jordan or Douglas speak for longer than 2 minutes? It boggles the mind how anyone can think of either of these men as controversial, let alone extreme.
If by sjws you mean the far left, typically we dont follow one person or a few persons; generally the movement rests on the back of the overall group. The reason being is someone who rises up to the top as a leader generally gets torn down for being morally impure and thus “cancelled”. Take for instance shaun king, an activist and leader of the black lives matter movement in 2016. Recently he has been found to have been raising money and said money has just kinda disappeared, calling his motives into question.
So the people i listen to are generally regular people on twitter expressing their concerns. Protestors and activists who arent professional academics but have their lives impacted by politics and have to express themselves. I do follow certain youtubers who could be considered activists: contrapoints, kat blaque, peppermint, to name a few. But i personally am not one to read historical thinkers, as they usually dont connect with me. I read my share of aristotle, marx, jung, voltaire, foucault, etc in college but i dont connect with them. I also read judith butler and jack halberstam and other queer thinkers but there are still things they wrote that i dont fully agree with. So personally i dont have any thinkers i put forth as representing my current morals and beliefs. And i also see that around me in my circles: generally academia is not the focus of the far left movement. It does have its spot in the liberal left movement i believe, like in the case of first and second wave feminism. Maybe a radical left thinker is out there who i just dont know about or who hasnt manifested yet.
@@Ylurple Interesting response. I'll have to listen to the youtubers you mentioned to really grasp what you're saying. But my initial take on your response is that it you don't seem very far left but more towards the middle. For instance when you mentioned not connecting with historical thinkers, you come across as more of a free thinker. Grasping what they're saying but seemingly not being emotionally connected/invested IMO is a rational way to gather the information it takes to form an educated opinion and political stance.
You struck on an observation I've made in my own circles (I run a niche retail store between rural areas and a major metropolitan area where many walks of life come in and share their beliefs) and that's: most people are on the same page - often shocked at the louder minorities of people on the extremes of the political spectrum that are hard if not impossible to relate to because their ideals simply don't reflect the reality of peoples lives and experiences. But because they're so loud and extreme, they're the ones that get all the attention and paint an unrealistic representation of either the left or right respectively.
I think that's why I agree with Jordan on individualism over collectivism due to the diverse nature of people and the realities they create. I guess I just like being smack-dab in the middle, geographically and politically. I get to soak it all up and maintain a certain social/ideological fluidity.
P.S. this was intended to be a couple sentence response lol - cheers
@@Underbottom.Sandydown thanks for ur response, definitely give those youtubers a watch. they're great.
well i would say i am in fact far left. I believe in police abolition, abolition of the electoral college, universal healthcare, and affirmative action, to name a few things. most of the thinkers I mentioned don't subscribe to these ideas. except perhaps marx i guess, but he's not from this time of course so these arent the things he was thinking about. maybe his work applies, I'm not really sure. but yeah most of the thinkers i read in college dont apply to my morals. i cant call myself a communist since i dont deep down think it's the solution that i want given its historical failures, but i dont subscribe to capitalism either given its failures.
I think i do appreciate the loud minorities though. they make me question my stances. if they werent loud, no one would be listening to them. that's also why i certainly don't think of myself as a centrist, though i used to be; centrists dont get anything done imo. they're certainly great at pontificating and questioning those around them, but they, by definition, don't push society in any direction. im not bashing you for being politically in the center, but may i ask what change you're bringing to those around you and in your circles? are there any hard stances you take on things you believe in? do you bridge a gap between friends you have on the right and left?
@@Ylurple Wow, you are pretty far left lol. Good question though! you make a good point. I've often thought about my impact on my friends - it's subtle so it takes time to observe, but bridging the gap is usually my goal.
I've noticed that simple non-emotional discussion gives my friends and peers an opportunity to reflect on and understand their own opinions. Something about finding the vocabulary to articulate one's opinions makes one think deeper about what those opinions mean to them. Sometimes this results in people going further on their side of the political spectrum, sometimes it brings them closer to the middle. It depends on the person. I gravitate towards open minded people in general so it makes it easier to communicate in that way.
As an example my brother was a fascist, but over years of discussion (which is hard to to with a fascist, they tend to talk *at* you not *with* you) and trading books and podcasts he's admitted that such an extreme view of the world is skewed by biased statistics and only applies to unrealistic stereotypes. On the flip side deep discussions with him forced me to do more research, giving me a more informed world view. So its good for both of us. If I've learned anything from it, it's that I'm happiest when I get a chance to demonstrate my value to those I care about and give them a chance to do the same.
Though I'll pose the same question to you - what change do you bring to those around you being on one end or the other? Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting you don't enlighten the lives of those around you like I want to do, just curious if being left or right is more effective for you, or anyone, to do so. Cheers again man :)
Russel Brand comes to mind... a completely pseudo intellectual...a babbling moron... but many people think he is an intellectual worth reading
When the political machine is corrupt, people do not choose the best but the lesser of two evils.
Almost like now is the time for a true third way...
Oh wait you weren't talking about that, were you? You buy into this dumb left-right dichotomy bullshit and proclaim yourself more enlightened than everyone else because you are a centrist.
david ward I don’t think she was saying that at all.
Katherine Kelly love how my comment was deleted
Not me I won't sanction them ruling over me.
What I appreciate about Peterson is that he maintains an open mind whilst talking about anything. He questions everything, even the stances he has strong ground to stand upon. In other words, people are vastly unique, therefore, a collective of "group identity" or the like is very risky. Water finds its own level.
are you a flat earther, Dan?
Nope, not at all.
well said.
I was thinking you are a Flat Earther as well. "Water finds its own level" is a mantra they like to repeat. ;p
Ah, yes, it is part of their mantra. Used a paraphrase from a song by Corey Hart, "Truth Will Set You Free" which seems to touch a bit on Peterson's views to a small degree. Cheers!
Wonderful, thoughtful Tete a Tete between two kind, wise and brilliant men--rare and refreshing!
"always one more murder away from Utopia"
czcams.com/video/hslPNjqcXMk/video.html
My only regret is I didn't watch this with a bottle of red wine at hand. very enjoyable and enlightening
For the life of me, I don’t understand the attractiveness of equality of outcome.
Its appealing if you are very sympathetic and/or if you are below the average
@@itsMartinzito In other words: women and beta males.
@@itsMartinzito and think in low resolution
Collectivism has always been a means for the less fit to thrive at the expense of the more fit.
Work hard or vote that the efforts of others shall be distributed to you - that is the core of the issue.
This is honestly one of the best conversations I have ever listen to on CZcams. Wow. Wow. Thank you.
I love their honesty
Wow. That was heavy.
One of the best Left/Right discussions I've ever heard.
Neither is either left or right!
@@roberttietjen5012 Douglas Murray is definitely conservative, he's said so himself.
Robert Tietjen I think he was saying that they were both discussing left/right
He's conservative under the British definition which is left of center in USA
We seem to be failing to promote the exquisite benefits, value and balance of Centrist thought.
He's right. If no system will guarantee a utopia, then our best choice is to look for the least exploitive one
"My choice would be to stop with ideologies and just apply which ever solution makes the most sense"
Which inevitably results in ideology.
""""My choice would be to stop with ideologies and just apply which ever solution makes the most sense"
Which inevitably results in ideology."""
Which inevitably is the choice the powerful come up with
----their ideology. The choice that benefit them the most, to keep them in power, it is the bias most groups have.
Polyminarcho-capitalism.
expecting people to apply individual criteria is the sticking point. Most just want something they can put on a car bumper sticker or a facebook meme and let that represent who they are without having to take any personal responsibilty. Just making sure they are as close to the centre of the herd as possible to avoid any conflicts. It's this lack of individual participation that allows others to make the decisions for them and whenever there is an opportunity for exploitation it gets taken.
I don't buy any ideology but until everyone stops buying, ideologies will always be for sale. The problem is... they won't.
We all know using fossil fuel is destroying the planet, but I don't see the planet population acting on this. It's this mentality. I'm doing my part.
TheCompleteGuitarist the use of fossil fuel is only destroying our ability to use fossil fuel.
Thoroughly enjoy listening to you two gents. You both say what I think only you articulate it so well. A big thank you. Mx 🙏🙏🙏🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
Two well-meaning men that are genuinely concerned about the pitfalls of human nature...great conversation!
I dearly love both of these guys - they both are struggling mightily trying to make the world a better place. Fighting with satan himself, I'm afraid. But God bless and be with you both.
A truly brilliant analysis of the left-right moral conundrum.
I've shown this video to a few people I disagree with, and the conversations that we have had discussing the content of this video were perhaps the best I've ever had. I have managed to reach consensus with people with whom I thought I would never share a single opinion. It helps to concisly pin down disagreements that were always felt but were never properly articulated.
With all due respect to both of these brilliant minds, a few things that are never mentioned about the problematic nature of IQ tests are:
1. The desire to do good on a test, by the test taker. This is cultural. Some kids and people of different cultures do not value test taking measurements, academic success, etc.
2. Being a well adjusted test taker. This is also cultural. Kids subjected to the rigor of high functioning academic environments, and also pushed at home, will naturally perform better in test taking situations.
3. The fact that you can get better at IQ tests by taking more of them. Your score can go up. This implies there is an element of skill, or associated skill.
Would love to hear others thoughts...
The short answer to this remark is probably, that yes, IQ-tests are not perfect, but they are the most statistically reliable predictor of certain outcomes that we currently have.
These are good observations. As someone else noted though IQ tests are the best we have.
This. Exactly.
If this played a major role the results wouldn’t be the same on average in every study.
I'll tell you where it becomes relevant. -It ought be noted that the IQ test is western devised of western centric culture. So it follows, if you want to test who might do well in a western nation....
Understand, it's not a test to find a better kalahari bushmen.
That's the kind of intellectual stuff you find on YT if you look for it...the best use of your time while relaxing home.Thank you Dr Peterson and Douglas Murray.
I've been a plumber for 6 years now.
I worked in different companies and NEVER saw any female plumber.
And it is not like nobody would hire a good worker, my boss is desperately trying to find more people. The truth is that females are not a good plumbers and(!) they don't want to become plumbers.
I don't think this is good or bad, it is what it is.
But I think it is very bad that you are not allowed to talk about this anywhere else than youtube comments.
That's why this emoji somehow feels wrong 👩🔧👩🏭
If you want to find a female welder good luck with that.
@AvaM I dunno.. but I do know unicorns will never win the Kentucky Derby.
@AvaM Because men and women are often different. 🤷🏾♀️
Not always.
But more often than not.
I'm a woman and I've worked in a predominantly-male job (post-disaster response) but only because I found a niche there, where my differences were beneficial (I'm super flexible and small so I can access narrow debris voids, and cross unstable rubble fields, and have preternaturally-keen vision).
I met two other women in that job, but they're genetically different than I am, much bigger and stronger, so they could do the same thing the guys did, which I'm not strong enough to do.
But -- all of us (me, these two women, and all the men) shared an interest in this work. However, from infancy, girls' attention tends to focus on different things than boys' attention. Even in baby marmosets, which I've cared for. Long before they could be socialized to be different, they often are.
Again, not always. But very often. And there's nothing wrong with people being different either.
I would assume women would be superior plumbers since plumbing doesn't require immense strength, yet does benefit from a good deal of thoroughness which women are fantastic at.
Most girls dont even wanna break a nail 🤷🏽♂️👌
@AvaM The women who attracted to become plumber would be an outlier.
You are making an assumption that attraction is not relevant. It is a mistake in my opinion.
A Brilliant man, sharp, insightful , well dressed and that other guy Peterson is pretty good too,
Supra Sharpe traitors gatekeepers.
😂
LOL!
An old fav of mine J.P. chatting to a new fav of mine Doug Murray. Thanks for sharing this. As many have commented below - A clear, insightful dialogue between two gentlemen of superior intelligence and wit and that should be mandatory viewing for ALL politicians and political commentators.
Loved listening to this conversation. Much food for thought.
"I'm literally a communist". I'm literally going to puke
Welcome to Venezuela! Enjoy your choice!
@Pep what exactly are their interests?
@Pep Ok, what are your "white" group interests? I can think of a lot of white people who would find your statement non-sensical. Aren't are "interests" all more or less the same, even if we've developed different kinds of social organziation to achieve them?
If you are gifted... you don't need to be in the "top-tier" universities to flourish. You can apply to low-medium ranked schools for a start. Bust serious balls over there, do research. With some experience under your belt, you can always move to higher ranked schools.
Most of what you learn in a university is self-taught... nobody will spoon-feed you anything. So if you are really gifted it hardly makes a difference where you start.
Agree. Went to both top-tier and medium ranked. In the end it is about educating ones self and not only about what is being taught. And the gifted, yes, it lets you go as far as you want to go.
Not true. I studied as an undergraduate and postgraduate at a top university and then studied further postgraduate studies and taught at a less prestigious institution . The standards were far lower and lecturers were expected to guide and spoonfeed students.
Cosroe's comment can be true, but make no mistake: elite universities, especially in professional programs, are superior. Of this I am 100% certain.
one can certainly go to Podunk U and then attend graduate school at an elite university and "round out" one's education. But the best schools get the best minds.
For example, not every medical school can teach the same surgical procedures. They don't have the expertise, the experience, the surgical leaders, the equipment, etc etc etc. When you're talking science, math, compsci, engineering, you have to have the facilities and faculty to support the leading and bleeding edges.
Only if your definition of “flourish” is “do OK”. If you are bright and ambitious, why the hell would you lower your opportunity to maximize success? Truly outstanding professors are so far ahead of their average school peers, it is...well, Pareto distribution!
Then you better hire people from those lower tier schools and pay them well or it's just BS of an excuse.
Waiting for the remix, hopefully it's a longer track. Touchy waters navigated honestly and intelligently, hope to see and hear Peterson back on the scene when or if he's ready or willing. Douglas Murray what a great appearance on JRE today. Thankful to have come across it and highly recommend everyone check it out, it's how I arrived here to begin with. 1
Love to listen to these two men I have learnt so much about myself and about the world we live in such a calm man with a voice that sounds quiet but they should be the biggest noise right now thank you for this interview
IQ shouldn't be any more sensitive a topic than height differences between racial groups. It simply goes to show that disparity in achievement is not necessarily attributable to racial prejudice. No one wants a racial heirarchy.
"No one wants a racial heirarchy."
Some people do. Don't be so naive.
Some percentage IS attributable to racial prejudice. Some percentage is IQ. Some percentage is a myriad of other things. Until we actually know the mix, we need to stop speculating and claiming we have the answer.
CaptainJayOT tired of conservatives blaming the entirety of the world’s woes on liberals and vice versa. Yet again another petty deflection trying to find blame when it’s completely unproductive - counterproductive in most cases. Liberals are sometimes misguided in their attempts to counter systematic bigotry. Conservatives are sometimes misguided in their attempts to maintain traditions which include systematic bigotry.
There’s no use or reason to placing all the blame for a universal and broad range of issues on one identity group. It’s lazy and encourages distrust.
Most people of all political leanings take a measured approach to such things and don’t make the failures you imply to be unanimous and nefarious.
Some do, and it is to be deplored of course.
That's right, Thomas. The far left doesn't want this discussion because 1) they're worried that if IQ is open for discussion the far right will weaponize it, and 2) they want the differences amongst people's situations to be *all prejudice* - it makes it easier to criticize.
KipIngram I can’t speak for the “far left” and I don’t think you can, either. 1) is very possible, we have ongoing evidence of it happening all over the world and in our recent past. 2) is an oversimplification. Given so many deny that racial inequality exists in the world, I can see how you might misinterpret it as “wanting everything to be prejudice.” Anyone who argues everything is due to prejudice is wrong. It’s nonzero and nontrivial. Neither hyperbole is accurate, be they associated with far left or far right. That seems like a trivial statement itself... “the extremes are extreme.”
Individuals will always lose in a contest against organized groups.
Individualist cultures have a weakened immunity against infiltration by collectivists, especially if that infiltration happens incrementally.
Westerners are the only people that are in love with the idea of multiculturalism. Other people are not embarrassed that they want their culture to be dominant.
Boneheaded fundamentalists are the most difficult to subvert; for countries, it's the totalitarian shitholes. Incredibly resilient, but you (probably) wouldn't want to live there.
Cultures that only want to preserve (and possibly propagate) without changing in any way? Stale, outmoded, uninteresting. The less stable one is, the easier to infiltrate it and destroy it, but the more vibrant, creative, and attractive it is.
It's always a trade-off.
What do you think a multi-national corporation is except a "collectivized" group, concentrating wealth and power, and suppressing the autonomy of non-affiliated individuals?
Two extraordinary men in conversation..... brilliant!
One of my clients who has a consulting agency, wanted to hire a assistant/secretary and so he asked me to participate in the hiring process by attending the interviews. The interviews were all conducted on one long day and he had decided to hire the person with the best credentials and I begged to differ. In fact, I suggested he hire the person with the least credentials and he was stunned. Looking at me like I'd lost my mind, he asked why and I told him that based on my judgement of her character, this lady will totally loyal and work her a** off to get work her done. So he grudgingly agreed, and 12 years on she stills works for him and he finds it almost impossible to do without her.
Remko, you acted very wisely. Credentialism hurts both companies and organizations (who would otherwise employ exemplary people), as well as those competent people, whom they pass over. Unlike other countries (they may have changed by now, although perhaps not), the Israelis, when they chose military pilots, didn't do so based on their credentials, but rather on their demonstrated abilities ("Can you fly a Mirage III and shoot down Egyptian and Syrian MiGs, and/or blast their tanks with rockets? Yes? Then show an instructor pilot what you can do, shooting at target drones and captured tanks, and if you can, you're hired!").
Could it be argued that the smarter your deemed by societies standards your only going to pursue your own interests. Higher wage, less hours etc
Douglas Britain thanks you
Gore M, lol
Douglas Murray is a fraud.
abbb282, How do you justify that outrageous accusation? it appears to me and millions of others Douglas acts in the best interests of this country.
Oh thanks for letting me know about his fraudulent ways, don't worry, I'm taking Your comment as fact, even though You've provided no evidence, You've changed my mind.....
never heard of him
You can talk about IQ outside of college but not in a college 2019 you'll be shouted down I've seen this on CZcams amazing IQ explains A lot
I love to hear both of your opinions. Your path to express these opinions has been brutal, from my perception. I admire both of you and am thankful for your voices.
I Love seeing my two Dads together.
The reason that people are talking about the differences in IQ is because we are constantly being told that white people are the oppressors preventing other groups from succeeding. People that aren't oppressing other people don't like being called oppressors. IQ is a huge predictor in success in our society and if one group has a lower IQ they are less likely to succeed as a group. The reason people are interested in the subject is because it offers an actual explanation for some of the racial disparities we see our society. Obviously this is only one factor out of many but it is a factor and it shouldn't be denied just because it makes some people uncomfortable.
just be honnest and stop dog whistling..you think blacks and browns are dumber
+ Dan Rose, white is a recent umbrella term (American origin) to describe caucasians. Whites are genetically much more similar to Jews than other racial groups. So don't be disingenuous, Hurt Kobain is right -- this is just another way of saying whites have superior intellect to blacks. No matter how you spin it, it's racist because intra-group differences are larger than inter-group differences.
Euphoric Atheist Then what about Japanese and Koreans scoring high on IQ tests?
If you are going around making this claim provide your sources and explain the evidence. YOU should have the sources easily to hand AND have an excellent understanding of the research. Don’t link a CZcams video, link the research and also a summary of the findings, otherwise I highly doubt you even know what you’re saying.
Jordan is definitely aware of this. He claims higher average IQ can help to explain the overrepresentation of Jewish people in certain fields.
It was fascinating to listen to these two great minds in discussion. Wonderful.
I often have difficulties with the way J Peterson and D Murray discuss issues but I found this discussion very interesting and thought provoking.
thank you
Intelligent insights by thinking men---most people will not or cannot absorb this conversation
these ppl say nothing new.
PC = bad
Left wing = bad
Immigration = bad
Feminism = bad
Lgbt = bad (except when one of them is G, then G is ok...upto a point)
Millions of hours of this circlejerk on youtube, hundreds of bestselling books and now heads of government in US, UK, Brazil, Europe complaining about how they are 'silenced' by the left LOL
Most people are too arrogant with no reason to be.. even JP is humble! That says it all!
PCPolice I’ve never heard WHY PRECISELY the radicals are bad.. not the middle. I’ve yet to hear such intelligent discourse.
I've never heard a single person who talks about race and IQ make the claim that differences in IQ mean that there are differences in intrinsic worth. That is just the straw man that people who don't want to deal with the data create.
russell d that’s not what I heard, I’m pretty sure Peterson said that the trouble with IQ numbers is what you are using them to prove exactly and furthermore that there is no good answer. So if you are interested in IQ statistics then what would you use it to prove?
@@mrginge143 I don't understand why the answer to that isn't obvious to everyone. We are in the midst of a moral panic where a huge number of people, many of them in very powerful positions, believe that racial disparities in various measurements of success in our society is due to discrimination by the privileged whites. And they are trying to destroy whiteness openly because of that. Meanwhile, there is indisputable data showing that IQ is an one of the strongest indicators of success in our society and that there are vast differences between the races. Therefore the fact that Asians and Ashkenazi Jew Jews, on average, are the most successful people in our society and are also the smartest makes perfect sense. So what do we do with it? We use it to do the same thing we always do with true information. We solve problems. If it turns out the Discrimination is not actually what is holding black people down and progressives succeed in destroying whiteness, whatever the hell that means, then nothing actually has been accomplished. All they have done is destroyed something without solving any problems. Because the wrong thing was being blamed all along. If we recognize that IQ makes up around 25% of all the factors that go into the outcome of a person's life, at least that's the estimate that Peterson gives, then we can do things to help people with lower IQs find ways to succeed. Our goal should be to have a system that creates the incentives and opportunities for as many people as possible to thrive within it. Anytime truth is being obscured for any reason it is preventing us from working together as a society to solve problems that we care about.
@@mrginge143 Also, I'm not even sure what exactly you are responding to. I said that no one makes the claim that differences in IQ can be equated with differences in intrinsic worth. And you said, that's not what I heard. I'm not sure what you think I'm saying. Because that response doesn't really correlate with what I said. Douglas Murray claimed that he was uncomfortable with this topic because he seems to think that people are saying that differences in IQ are the same as differences in intrinsic worth. I'm simply pointing out that nobody actually makes that claim. That is the strawman that people on the left use to attack those who bring up the subject. To the people who talk about this issue it is no no more a comment on a person's intrinsic worth then it would be to compare height, ability to shoot a free throw, or music ability. Nobody says that Albert Einstein was superior so there every other human just because of his intellect. So nobody should think that people who talk about race and IQ are saying that those with the highest averages are superior to those with the lowest.
There are no differences in intrinsic worth. Which is why endlessly discussing this topic is so utterly redundant.
Nevertheless, we must remember that it is an easy step from this to that. For ANYBODY, including myself.
this was excellent. No surprise the algorithms kept it hidden for a year
Thank You!
Peterson continues to introduce concepts in a new and interesting way. The man is brilliant.
An outstanding conversation! Period!...
Thank you!
What defines my intellect is I watch actually intelligent preserved people discuss and debate matters out of my knowledge and form it in these magnificent sentences that explain five things in two breaths...
Thanks for vid
Dr. Peterson: The alt-right include Objectivist / classical liberals like myself. The alt-right is our survival strategy against the genocidal impulses on the left. Our hope is to preserve, and hopefully even restore, civilization against the long night ahead. All of the rhetoric is towards that end. If the left stops trying to destroy civilization, quite frankly, we have other things that we would prefer to be doing.
Yes. I'd rather be getting on with life but it's too important not to get involved
I think the term evolved over time. It originally seemed to refer to White Nationalists; but now it seems to refer to anyone who isn’t a worker bee for the far left. Very strange.
Yes!
What a load of hubris and mischaracterization. Why exactly do you think genocidal impulses arise in the first place except through the socially corrosive forces of vast wealth/power/influence inequalities in society? In my mind, Ayn Rand's ignorance of mutualism driving evolution in the human and ecological world's gives her philsophy and worldviews the flavour of a death cult, with profit and corresponding productivity/consumption as the amoral basis for socio-cological relationships.
So what do you say to those societies and groups that have been on the boot-end of the corporate-capitalist imperialism that props up the hierarchies of wealth/power in society? For example, is it in line with your values that we are justified in committing genocide against Indigenous peoples and dispossesing them of land whenever they happen to be in the way of profit?
Super classy and thoughtful. Wouldn't expect anything else from two of the foremost thinkers of our time.
Two great minds, so much information to absorb, I'm going to have to watch this again to take it all in.🤔🤔🤔
i really liked that ending there, a good hand shake and a smile and a great comment from murray
goddamn that is a beautiful office
Subscribed. Notifications on all the way. I think my IQ went up 2 points just watching that.
If it wasn't for you two the world would be utterly fooked rn... Thank you so very much, magnificent human beings.. Bless you both.. With knobs on!.. In awe.
I'm new to Douglas Murray.. very fascinated.
I adore the minds of both these men. I disagree with some of their views and conclusions, but my goodness they both understand how to play gracefully with ideas in the Oxford manner.
"Yes, we literally mean defund the police."
~ the mob, June 15, 2020
I guess I didn't share this amazing video enough over the last year and a half.
"Yes, we literally mean kill all whites."
~ the mob, June 15, 2030
One of the best discourses on, not politics only, but Humanity, I've ever seen. Thank you Jordan Peterson and Douglas Murray, this world needs more of you and more like you.
Lovely chat.