Radical Ideology and the Nihilistic Void | Douglas Murray | EP 152
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2024
- Douglas Murray and I discuss, among other topics, the collapse of grand narratives on the left and the right alike, the potential for the resultant explanatory and motivational void to be filled by more radical ideological ideas, and the dangers posed by the mutual recrimination that all-too-frequently characterizes relationships across the left-right divide.
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- Chapters -
(0:00) Intro
(1:11) The collapse of grand narratives
(5:30) Filling the meaning gap with identity politics
(7:44) Crafting a centrist democrat message
(9:15) The Right has a harder story to sell
(10:35) The suspicion of thought
(13:32) Identity politics and victim labels
(18:29) The notion of identity
(20:57) Abigail Shrier, viscous consequences
(24:29) Stripping truths based on group affiliation
(27:30) Understanding each other
(30:50) The othering of Trump supporters
(36:17) Trump was an anti-intellectualism reaction
(40:48) When Jordan Peterson Channels his Inner Redneck
(42:15) When reality is subjective, resentment builds
(45:47) When the margin of victory is no larger than the margin of error
(49:40) A degeneration to conspiratorial paranoia
(52:29) Political discussion today is not results oriented
(54:30) Inequality and the eye of Sauron
(56:54) Fascism as it occurs in America
(1:00:05) Jan 6th, and what’s hiding in the woodshed
(1:04:59) Antifa comparisons, irredeemable distrust
(1:10:18) Media matters, unless you’re in America
(1:15:30) Andy Ngo, small fallacies in reporting have big impacts
(1:20:06) Post-election Trump from a psychological perspective
(1:24:25) The Democrats are making a Conservative argument
(1:25:31) Trading the long term for the short term
(1:29:56) Trust and the divide
(1:35:35) Forgiveness
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I peacefully protested at the capital on the 6th. I broke no laws whatsoever and am in no way a radical.
I watched the media practically ignore the violence from the left this past year because it was "mostly peaceful". Many went out of their way to excuse the behavior of the rioting, looting, violent individuals.
Most of us at the capital were peaceful. The violent individuals should be punished fully by the law. I'm so so very tired of the double standards. Prominent figures have stated that people like myself need "reprogramming" and even our children taken away from us. The hypocrisy is absolutely absurd! How do people not see this?
@@kermitfrog593 yes yes keep perpetuating the lies.
Peterson seems oblivious to it. I don't know what is the matter with him.
@@lawrenceludlow5521 maybe he warned you what the matter was with him.
@@kermitfrog593 the arguments are clear. Manslaughter and individual crimes do not justify murder of innocent people. Can you justify abortion? Can you justify killings in the inner city? No. Lol. Now, if you are at risk of being enslaved by a tyrannixal government then peaceful protesting is warranted. What is your argument against the protests at the capital? How is any of that tied to Donald Trump? Is there room in your estimate for people who don't agree with court systems that don't even open a room to eve hear evidence for fraud and also do not trust Donald Trump? No. Of course because reductionism is in fashion and Jordan Peterson is the bastion of all reason.
@@issac7787 The capital violence was wrong. The BLM violence was wrong. Most of us see that. However, the media and many in government praised the BLM protesting and even encouraged it yet people at the capital were somehow all "white supremacists". Seems odd because I met wonderful people of many races while in DC to protest who felt the same way I do. That is worth thinking about no matter how you identify politically. Do you ever stop and think who is mostly to blame for this division? Most of us are reasonable people and are willing to listen to others opinions. Image if we didn't dismiss a person's entire opinion by calling them some name or saying far right or far left. We are ALL Americans and I think we could heal and solve so many problems if we stopped labeling and fighting amongst each other.
I feel Douglas spoke for all of us when he said "I missed you".
Yes🙏
Yes, he absolutely did!
Indeed. He did.
@The Ancient Ones is this some high Iq joke I’m not understanding or are you lost?
@The Ancient Ones what is this even a reply to?
I've heard Douglas Murray speak on forgiveness in many of his interviews, and I think only now, after hearing it again, do I realize it's vital importance. It took several times of hearing it for me to finally understand. I do hope he writes more on the subject and gives listeners and readers concrete ways of incorporating forgiveness into our lives. It is a skill that must be learned and practiced. It does not come naturally, and for many public figures these days it is looked upon as weak.
Forgiveness can be useful, sometimes noble, but can also be weak. It "covers all bases" in that regard.
Forgive once, shoot twice :)
Both Murray and Peterson go totally overboard feeding on each others frenzy as they pound harder and harder on their personal dislike of Donald Trump. It was a despicable display of conjoined madness by the two. Their biases shine bright as demonic klieg lights as the two almost catch on fire by the end of their blithering rant.
MARK TWAIN said, IT’S EASIER TO FOOL PEOPLE THEN IT IS TO CONVINCE PEOPLE THEY’VE BEEN FOOLED. He was speaking to the human condition.
When Jordan said he'd had a lot of his bravery beaten out of him, that hurt.
But the man has done far more than anyone could reasonably expect: the onus is on us now
Yeah, buckles under pressure after lecturing to people about standing up and telling the truth.
Is this why he didnt ask matthew McConaughey about getting raped twice and why he isnt talking about the crazy authoritarian actions of government worldwide in handling of virus ushering in the great reset ....
You can tell, he was telling the truth
@@charlesgibbins yeah and he really proved it throughout the video. Him strawmanning the trump position really had me disappointed. Trump doesnt have to be the only person with virtue, pence and others just had to cave under pressure, which is exactly what he said he was doing for himself.
And beaten out by whom? THE LEFT.
Every episode Jordan's voice sounds better and better! So glad to see him doing well.
Edit: Not just his voice but his overall energy and sharpness is worlds apart from his first interview back with his daughter.
He seems to be getting progressively better visibly as well
It reminded me of when I use to have a hangover. Those anti depressants are the f in scourge for most. I won't say people because I dont know if I'm still allowed to call us that.
I see it too. Fills my heart with joy.🙏
I can't wait to hear his analysis on how well the Wim Hof breathing method worked for him!
He does sound so much better
Two men that have kept my world tethered more times than I can count. I only wish Hitchens would have stayed with us a little longer. The nonsensical, directionless, silly conversations I have with my daughter are a consequence of you two. Very nice to have you back Jordan you had a legion of cynics checking health updates and ready to scrap in parking lots for you.💪🏼
Douglas, The Madness of Crowds is brilliant! When I saw the chapter titles I knew I was holding a minefield that only you could traverse. Bravo man 😅 you and maybe Keanu Reeves are the only ones that could pull off a deep dive right into their motherboards. Be safe gentlemen, a pleasure to hear you two talking again.
So glad to see this good man regaining his health❤️
"I missed you" -- that just makes the world worth being part of.
Join the queue Douglas :)
❤️🥰👍
@@emmasnow29 Someone sounds triggered?
Emma Snow someone gets it.
@@robertsmith7667 That you appear triggered? It appears so...
When Douglas said "I missed you" you can see it in his face that he really meant it.
I’m kinda sick of these types of comments, not gonna lie. These “HE REALLY MEANT IT” or “I FELT THAT!”. For some reason i find them irritating.
@@nothajzl I'd argue superficial criticisms are even more irritating. Some people have feeling type personalities. Part of being human.
Douglas is very sincere.
@@devinmoran59 yeah, i felt the toxicity radiating from my comment when i wrote that 😄but i wrote it anyway..
@@anothercat1300 may be. I think it’s the fact that i see the “same comment” so much in youtube comments.
"The problem when everything is going well is that everything that's going well becomes invisible"
Is that really true though?
@@bperez8656 Yes, I think it really is, at least in general. It's part of human nature to take the everyday benefits we enjoy in life - for granted. We forget to be thankful for ordinary things - yet we'd surely miss these things once they were gone.🥪☕🥤🍟🥗🐄🍺👕👖👟☔🏡🚙👨👩👧👦🏨🥼👨⚕️🏪⛽🚛🏫👩🏫🛣️🚿🤽♀️🚽🚣🐈🐕💒🌄🚌🥎🎶
Listening to this conversation some time later. I would love to hear a follow-up.
Great conversation.
One thing to consider is that a lot of people legitimately voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020 due to his policy and due to their distaste of the Democrat's policies. And since Trump is not a typical politician, he was willing to do many important things (like take on China with trade) that other politicians will not due (both Dem and Rep). It's not fair to say people only did it as a middle finger to the left because it's not true.
You also must understand the complete distrust many people have for the media in America..... We will watch a press conference or read about a policy..... And then get something completely different from the media. They are blatantly deceptive and manipulative. It can make it VERY hard to figure out the truth sometimes. Especially with something as complicated as election fraud in an election where ~160 million people voted and each state has different voter laws and procedures.
Those two are high on my list of public thinkers that I truly appreciate, but I don’t think they’ve examined all of the available information on this.
There seems to be compromised individuals at all levels of our government. After this year, I see clearly that our institutions have been corrupted.
Even these two still operate with a cartoon version of Trump in their heads thanks to the "eye of Sauron"...which is disappointing. A blind spot on their part or a conscious decision to retain a minimal level of social credit in mainstream society? Who knows. At least they covered the riots - but didn't really differentiate the ratio of severity enough from the Capitol Hill farce - which was nowhere near the order of insurrection. If that had been an attempt at insurrection it would have actually looked like one.
I shared this episode on FB etc at the start. Unshared it at the end. Pretty cul-de-sac stuff, certainly for Jordan.
@@24secondsperframe68 you don't. I thought they explained the whole Trump era perfectly. Made more sense than I hear on the mainstream.
My comment was erased by CZcams. Another reason is due to the 2008-2016 administration in the ME, which created displaced ppl (re fu gees ) and such groups as IS is among other. The new administration already announced we are going back in, great (not).
@@SN00PICUS not when it suits them, when it INVOLVES them. They both understand the breathless and dishonest advocacy of the left by the media when it's focused on them, but not where it concerns Trump.
When I got the CZcams notification for this it literally felt like Christmas.
@@ClinicalDecisionYikesYT I think his statement is a joke
@rajchandileka jayawardhane I would generally assume this is a troll, but these days it's getting harder and harder to tell.
Merry Christmas.
Same
Absolutely! I'm so glad Jordan is better!!!
My 2 favorite orators in one talk ? Love it !
So glad you are back Dr. Peterson. You've helped me through a very tough time. God Bless.
I love how Jordan jumps right in and Douglas makes a point of telling him that it's good to see him and that he's missed him.
I love that about Douglas. He's sharp and rational, but also kind and compassionate.
His latest book is one of the most important of the decade. I hope that it could become a manifesto for modern conservatism.
@@jonlee6114 😂
Also very gay
Douglas isn't gay, he's conservative.
@@emboe001 a distinction without a difference 😂
"All the things I was engaged in will start up again, hopefully." Gave me goosebumps. The world needs Dr. Peterson to speak the truth more than ever, considering what's going on around the world.
So will Dr Peterson dare to talk about the great c . o . v .i . d . h. o . a . x . ? 99 . 97 % recovery rate?
K . l . a . u . s . S . c . h . w. a . b and the "g . r . e . a . t . r . e . s. . e . t " ? "You'll own nothing and you'll be happy."
Big pharma companies being given exemption from liability for their " v . a . c . c . i . n . e . s . " ?
@@richardscales4569 👏👏👏👏👏👏
@@richardscales4569 Well said.
Really you guys starting to sounds more obscure. Indeed there's a possibility of an upcoming disaster. But have you even watch his videos? Trust it even tho you know that it is a snake. Active bravery. Fight from within. Take the burden. We must take a risk. There's possibly no other way to end this chaos. Trust them. You might find something out of it.
Yeah, but in order to SPEAK the truth he has to HEAR it first, and from Victor Davis Hansen, not Murray.
I am spellbound by the notion of having the courage "to trust the other". It resonates with Brenee Browns words about "daring greatly by showing up in the arena". May we all find the courage to speak the truth and risk being vulnerable and forgiving.
Douglas is one of the best commentators of our time
The comment of JBP being missed literally brought tears to my eyes. I took his absence as my opportunity to use my voice to combat the problems of our time without relying on JP to much. He has provided all the guidance/tools necessary to face these dragons. While I have never met you Doc I view you as a father figure and you have changed my life in many ways. Still have much dead wood to burn off, but am so so thankful you are back. You have been missed and needed in enormous ways. Thank you for continuing to lead by example and doing what has to be done to keep our/your room in order. You are my hero sir!!! I care for you very very much
Telling the truth is quite liberating. And dangerous to do irl. I've done it and experienced the downsides. All the opposition did was strengthen my resolve.
Good luck to you on your journey and finding your voice 🙂
I share a lot of your feelings about Dr. Peterson.
Bravo.
@@TheWoodworker1966 any outcomes from it is right and beter than the guilt I felt when I lied. I live someone lives if I lied. So it means that I am not even living. Better to tell the truth, any outcome I face, that my friend I must bear it. Security is unimportant if my soul is crushed.
I've just started listening but have to say, it brought tears to my eyes to see you looking so much better, Jordan Peterson. I'm just one of many people who have been rooting for your good health.
What you say about forgiveness is one of the keys to true genuine human interaction. We cant walk around thinking we are on our own and disowned/demoted/fired/left/ if we mess up. Yell at each other with respect but move on together. Thank you for a good talk!
If forgiveness is reached by getting drunk and laughing at something together, well then that's better than an extended misery .
I read the books of both of these wonderfully erudite, compassionate individuals, and listen to their interviews quite often. Absolutely top notch. I believe that their cogent presentations provide the world with inestimable benefits. That being said, time will tell if they were correct in their evaluation of the events of the last U.S. Presidential election. They might benefit from reviewing some of the sworn testimony given by thousands of citizens to the legislatures of a number of different states.
As an outside observer and having bothered to investigate the claims, with no favour or skin in the game, the stolen election isn't just a rabbit hole to be so flippantly and ignorantly fobbed off i'm saddened to say. These are not two people i thought i'd ever say such a thing to, i respect both greatly.
@@jessewest2109 yes this was long overdue
@@jessewest2109 seeing people go through the mental gymnastics of choosing between JBP and Trump in the comments has been interesting. Of course, as long as you aren't a fanatic, a choice isn't necessary.
I'd bet that I have spent conciderably more time than both JP and DM on the claims that the election was stolen. Even in all my efforts I'm left with two conflicting thoughts. Firstly it is extremely clear to me that the opportunity and the will to corrupt the process was there.
Secondly that there is plenty of room for me to be mistaken.
I'm not privy to how extensive the fraud claims were investigated. It's simply too muddy a space to get a clear handle on, particularly in the face of such an extremely biased media.
The alternative media on CZcams is subsequently a minefield as our imaginations go into overdrive.
As long as Peterson spreads the message of adhering to the principles of truth and self reflection I'm more than happy he is very moderate and inclusive in the political sphere.
If any solution is to be found in uniting a civilized discourse it starts within all of our hearts.
It's really not clear either way for me.
So many people are too certain they know what is going on on both sides of the equation. I'd rather see a difficult comprehensive and inclusive dialogue return to the culture than where the alternative is leading us.
@@jessewest2109 bull. He says to play fair. It's not a left or right thing. This is the deep state vs us
@@jessewest2109 I don't at all see how your reply has anything to do with @Martial lee comment - "As an outside observer and having bothered to investigate the claims, with no favour or skin in the game, the stolen election isn't just a rabbit hole to be so flippantly and ignorantly fobbed off i'm saddened to say. These are not two people i thought i'd ever say such a thing to, i respect both greatly."... and then at the end to say "Go back to the beginning of his lectures and start again." - perhaps you are busy talking to yourself? Or perhaps the level of hubris / megalomania on display is quite grotesque? You accuse of misunderstanding, yet your reply seems totally irrelevant to the comment?
Anyone who watched all those Senate hearings( I did) would be unable to say there was not enough evidence to justify a court investigation.
If JP had watched them he would not have used the phrase "Trump went down the stolen election narrative rabbit hole". It is no rabbit hole narrative. Watch the senate hearings if you won't do any of the data analysis yourself. The stolen election narritive is the pursuit of truth and justice. Starting with the data and looking at the evidence for yourself, you have no choice but to accept that the judicial system is corrupt from bottom to top. The events between Nov. 3, to Jan. 20, expose a disgusting amount of corruption. This is why "the right" is upset, not because of Trump. "The left" is upset because they are children being called out on their lies
Any REASONABLE person who watched those hearings perhaps, but people on the left are not reasonable so those people most certainly would deny the existence of evidence because it fits their narrative. The existence of left is based of fundamental dishonesty. But Jordan and Douglas should watch the hearings, agreed.
i agree i watched too n anyone can do its sad to think people can comment if they've not done or be dismissive anyway i salute the people who came forward
@@djknox2 it's like imagining the people at high school running the country, which in effect they are.
Viewing this 2 years later, its amazing how opinions never wait for history to convey facts. This is not a slight on these two brilliant men. It is an observation.
I'm rewatching it, and yes - point taken:)
47:36 he never said he wouldn't leave office. This segment hasn't aged well in light of the Time* article.
The MSM talking points and lies presented in this talk astounded me.
@ConManliness It's actually the Time Magazine, not the 'Times'. It's a recent article (hopefully still available online) in which the author proudly describes a vast conspiracy and 'cabal' (her words) to 'save' the 2020 elections and to 'fortify' democracy - an apparently huge under-cover effort by powerful people and organizations to manipulate the elections in many different ways.
@@johndickinson8848 TDS on full display I'm afraid.
Yes when he made that entirely false statement and Peterson did not correct him I stopped listening. When you have two men so devoid of facts of the case, repeating leftist MSM lies, there’s nothing more of value to be gained by listening to them disparage those in possession of the details of election irregularities.
@@tiffanymauk2860 My sentiments exactly. I just turned it off at that same point. I love both of these guys, but I don't quite get them going on and on about something they are completely clueless about, yet insist on waxing so assuredly. I'm almost embarrassed for them. Even before the Trump part they were showing their weakness on the whole American right/left topic.
I love the metaphor "eye of Sauron" describing social media pervasiveness
@@emmasnow29 ai beats chess grandmasters and jeopardy champions. And we’re just toying with ai applied to psychological manipulation through propoganda. Generally unaware.
🍿 enjoy the show
@@emmasnow29 ai presently is a serious danger.
A threat expected in the future... should be considered a present threat. Not to discredit that it is actively, presently threatening/causing harm to society as we know it.
Humans are reactive, until the problem at hand is beyond our ability to react. Need to be proactive. Hence our current predicament with this pandemic.
P.S. I like your picture. Is it supposed to invoke a Google branding feel? Or is that just me?
:)
I had to keep checking to make sure this conversation wasn't recorded 3 or 4 years ago. This is more or less where the conversation was back then.
@@goodlookinouthomie1757 haha. Yup. Humans 👍🏻
We talk about planning until disaster strikes. Then we begin planning. And then we barely save our asses long enough to stack up all the nonsolved problems sent into remission in the closet. Until the closet bursts. And then it’s game over :)
🍿 enjoy the show
I think I can speak for the crowd here when I say: Jordan, we've all missed you. And we are so happy you are back and healthy. God bless Dr. Peterson.
Unfortunately people in general do not want to listen to this type of conversation or what these men have to say because they'd realize how wrong they are and to make this world a better place. Thank you Jordan and Douglas
Pragmatic political philosophy exposed as clearly as one could want. Many Thanks to Douglas Murray. How many times do I have to admit that I couldn’t have put it better myself? Great stuff!
Jordan sounding more like himself in his interview. It's fantastic to see him back cognitively.
I agree. Slowly but surely he is definitely back on track.
Agreed. He is on point, he has made massive progress even since his last video it seems.
@@jakejohnson6120 I want to know if it has anything to do with maybe doing the Wim Hoff breathing exercises? He said he wanted to give it a try for at least a while.
Meh.
@@Nicholai888 There is also a chance that he used different methods other than Wim hof. Honestly, I don't know for sure.
Interesting conversation. Most of which is good. Wanted to comment on the part of the legal challenges to the US election. The courts didn't throw out any of the cases that Trump himself brought (he didn't bring 90 cases, his team brought a round 5 or 6), all were thrown out on procedure, none were heard on the merits. The reason people on the right are so angry about the election was because the courts refused to hear any of the merits. Some of the larger number of cases brought by others, may have been heard, but my inderstanding is even the majority of those were not heard on the merits. So you have the situation where people do not feel that even the judiciary wouldn't hear the facts. Taken with the multiple irregularities seen on tape, tapes of them destroying ballots...which are supposed to be kept for 2 years, wiping voting machines etc. One of the places in Michigan, Anterim County, they did evaluate forensically, the Dominion machines and found a 68% error rate. The attorneys there were threatened by Michigan's attorney General Dana Nessel. Multiple other people such as Matt Braynard, did independent work showing that there were huge numbers of voter fraud across the country. This was all ignored and refused to be even heard by the courts. So let me ask you, what are people supposed to do under these circumstances? Not that Trump is correct, but people wanted to see the evidence heard in court, if they had , only the true radical right wingers would've continued to support what is happening. In my opinion anyhow
It also bothered me how they act like believing Trump won means you cannot accept that Biden is POTUS and/or wish him the best.
agree; and Sen Cruz's simple proposition to appoint a commission to look at the evidence was howled down; legal profession want him debarred, expelled from Senate, etc
I think the answer here is putting our noses to the grindstone and getting actual citizens into local office. Whether it is ourselves or people we run. We primary people, we get people into school boards and wherever. Actial citizens, people who don't want to be there and agree to do one term and step down, then we run someone else, as a civic duty. I believe what we're seeing is happening because we just walked away from our civic responsibility.
Once done we branch out into the state and national levels
@@Lakoda26 how can you expext people to do that when they believe in their heart that he didn't win honestly, AND that he is going to undo everything Trump did that made them vote for him? To simply say "o.k., he won" is to accept that the Republicans will not only lose everything they gained, but will never win again and we are now a one party country.
Yup, we got a four year million dollar investigation into Trump at taxpayer expense based on information that Hillary paid for, and a rather large impeachment investigation based on an unsworn statement of a fiance of the daughter of a democrat congressman.
We got no investigation whatsoever for over 900 sworn affidavits, and countless irregularities, except for the investigations that private citizens could afford to do by themselves...
Seems legit. Way to build confidence in the system guys!
I’d love to see this conversation repeated as of January 1st, 2023. I think these two were gaslighted as much as the majority of Americans who watch mainstream media.
Looking for this
I will support competent candidates that LOVE America.
Hearing JBP say that he had some of the brave knocked out of him tore me up - So pleased that he has been able to strengthen his resolve and continue to produce content like this. Well done sir
And beaten out of him by whom? THE LEFT.
@@nbinghi I'm not sure we can say it was "the left" as you put it - the man went through some of the hardest life challenges anyone can experience. I would argue that some of the rhetoric of the radical/extreme left had a major impact on his life but the notion that the left were responsible for his hardship is silly. it also highlights the problem Murray highlights in this video so therefore allow me to be your editor.
Would like to put in a word for Tammy (JP's wife). She reminded him that he said the courts in Canada were often corrupt so why couldn't the ones in the US be? Great comment Tammy!
Agreed
I mean, the leftist types thought the courts are corrupt and unfair... Except for the 2020 election. Then it was fair. It was unfair right after Biden was sworn in again though.
Other point was that they were republican judges so they should be non leftist, but who says they are on Trumps side?
I think there are plenty of republicans who do not like Trump very much at all. He is not republican, even by looking his political history, he has been registered democrat, republican and also independent, he is no partisan actor who does things by party politics for the party.
He just used republican side because on democrats he would not have that change he had. E.g. what happened to Bernie. Would be no big surprise if he had come from the side and had messed their business plans along the way.
@@amorfati4927 nah courts are only corrupt for those who think they should have won and not lost
@@lilscottieme that is a ridiculous claim - there are reams of examples of blatant corruption in the courts - over many decades - if there are human beings and power involved, there is ALWAYS corruption to be found
I absolutely love you both and benefit greatly from you sharing your deep thoughts. Thank you to you both.
Two great minds. Much needed discourse. Thank you
You guys are spot on with most of the analysis, as usual. BUT, the claim that the election fraud claims were effectively dispensed with by the American court system is just a misunderstanding of the American legal process. Many of the cases were dismissed for procedural reasons and not "on the merits", which means the substantive claims and evidence were NOT litigated. Prosecuting a fraud case is no simple matter, even when the facts are mostly on your side, especially when it is across multiple jurisdictions, dealing with such a sensitive issue and over an almost impossibly short timeframe. Obviously the Trump campaign and others associated with it handled it BADLY with their rhetoric, which was mostly a reaction (which is not an excuse) to the Left's reprehensible behavior and rhetoric. The fact that the deck was so firmly stacked against Trump's reelection due to unprecedented election rule changes and incessant media misreporting and censorship (no conspiracy theory, just common sense and plain facts) likely made them feel like the only choice was to amp up the rhetoric to epic proportions and hope it buys them more time. That was a terrible decision. However, there is no use in pretending we know the validity of the fraud claims when virtually none of it was properly litigated.
Election fraud should have been dealt with by the legislatures, not the courts. It's clearly documented in spades.
Good comment.
These 2 are loving being in the mainstream spotlight now. they are now firmly establishment. They will do anything to throw Trump under the bus especially Douglas Murray. Their videos are auto queued for me all the time. The CZcams Deradicalisation Pipeline, moderate centrists like this are now embraced whereas before Joe Rogans interview with him got a strike for just featuring Murray. Murray is now a total sell-out (which is unsurprising given his UK establishment position), he's comfortable, his team are in power.. who cares if an election got stolen? If anyone thinks that the election wasn't stolen by the way... well I have a bridge to sell them. These two cant even contemplate that Trump had a better set of policies that benefitted the US overall and thats why he got record numbers of votes. The West is heading for war and these two 'hear no evil' 'see no evil' controlled opposition are playing a big, big role in creating the chasm. Murray is saying "Biden must ensure fair elections!" - Has he even heard of HR1? What a lying whore..
To be fair, one man is Canadian and another from the UK. They seem to be unable to relate to a Trump supporter in anyway.
The greatest and most harmful rule change that took place (whether spoken or unspoken) was the sending of unsolicited mail-in ballots. This was effectively gerrymandering because the distribution of these letters across a map in a selective manner (whether intentional or not) would have the equivalent effect of changing the electoral constituency, especially in a pandemic environment. Without establishing intent, the courts would be unable to reverse anything and the scenario falls under the category of "unfortunate" or "inconvenient" event.
I love listening to JBPeterson and Douglas Murray. I have a question as to how it isn't possible to separate the man Trump as President from the Office of the Presidency. I get the criticism of the man, but the policies of repatriated investment, no new wars, low tax, low regulation, energy security and also having a rising minority vote, are all very impressive. Combine this with an unrelenting resilience after Obama illegally used government officials to spy on him before his inauguration, and a four year insistence (disproved) the Russians were involved in the 2016 election, and you have a very strong leader.
Because you can't separate the man from his office. In no job is that ever the case -- an interview to work at Subway requires some moral judgement, and correctly. The Presidency is an office where moral judgement should be the guiding factor. Even if it were to be granted that Trump enjoyed policy success, this doesn't explain how so many overlooked his flaws before such successes existed (the first election).
Thank you for adding your comment.
@@maxcrosby4232 This might be true assuming there is collective agreement on moral standards, but I'm not sure that is an assumption that can be made. Furthermore, I wonder about the degree to which Trump has such moral deficiencies that it so negatively affected his position, BUT he was able to implement policies that could objectively be considered as quality and effective. I think ultimately we are struggling with applying consistent moral standards leading to tiresome hypocrisies.
Yes, and Peterson actually still thinks there is a pandemic... Cmon Jordan, find out the truth before speaking on this stuff. COVID is being used to speed us up to "the great reset" AKA communism.
@@maxcrosby4232
A man with a Ego you roll your eyes at times and shrug it off. Was he not deserving of the ego he came to have? Did Obama live up to his in any of the 8 years he was in? What flaws did Trump have compared to Obama? What flaws compared to Clinton? Look at the past and the present at the time and you have your answer.
Brilliant podcast Jordan.. I'm so intrigued by the way you express your opinions.. Great guest as well I am a big fan of Douglas
JBP and Douglas Murray. A very excellent combination for podcasting!
I am a huge fan of both, that being said Murray’s repeated citing to the 61 court cases that went against Trump ignores the fact that none,/zero of those cases were determined on the merits/evidence. There was no discovery conducted except for in one case in NM which found significant discrepancies. He needed to be challenged on this. Also, that some were republicans is of little consequence when you consider that this was an establishment vs non-establishment (Trump)
Douglas was my God.
But life is all about priorities... after this... Fuck him & the horse he road in on.
@@birchwilliams2587 I am with you. I listened to a podcast he did a week ago with a couple of British guys in which he finally let loose his pent up disdain for Trump and his supporters . Very disappointing. I have been following Murray for several years now and generally appreciated most of his opinions. For the past four plus years he stopped short of criticizing Trump in the typical TDS way. Now it appears he wants to distance himself to avoid criticism.
Not even that, but most of those cases werent brought by Trump and his legal team himself. Only about 4 of them were from Giuliani and his team. Most of them were from voters and other organizations.
It also ignores a huge, huge, huge factor besides corruption.... Cowardice. Even IF the judge sympathizes with Trump, are they gonna stick their neck out on a case about election irregularities in an extremely tight timeline, where the possible implications are huge, but the ability to provide relief and how to do so even go about it is unknown, and the entirety of the media is busy cramming down everyone's throats how "there's no evidence".
@@jorgeandres404 I put a lot of this TDS syndrome down to sheer jealousy. I never thought I’d see Murray as a bitter, frustrated queen. I was wrong.
Mr Murry, there was enough video evidence and shenanigans that make one side loose faith in the process. Then the other side say don't believe your lying eyes and if you do your the problem and oh by the way having any questions whatsoever means you should be hated, re-educated or worse. If the other person refuses to atleast hear your grievances and deny they could even possibly exist. That is a recipe for extreme strife.
Never thought I would see these guys do so little research into what they're talking about. I guess the problem is it involves hours of watching actual hearings (not just clips from the media) and looking at the basis on which court cases were overturned without actually examining the evidence. Also, numbers don't lie as much as people do.
@@maryliz28 Amen, Mary Liz. If a judge refuses to hear the evidence IT IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT MATTER. These two, tho I have respect for them, are just saying what my dem friends do. 90 cases against Trump. The judges were unwilling to take on the deep state/cancel culture.
Well, they were prob smarter than you and i but, sorry, my sense of right and wrong won't let me go there.
And they both are fundamentally incorrect about Trump supporters. While there is an element of left vs right, essentially it’s establishment vs anti-establishment. Even though Trump is an elite, the party took on a life of its own and was a repudiation of the ideology being forced upon the US, and the west in general by the establishment.
With Biden’s first few days, we already see that it’s playing out as expected, ie the return of the war machine, appeasing China, destruction of the economy, etc
@@maryliz28 i thought the same, did you actually watch the hearings? But the sensors hip was so fast. Most if the vids i saved are deleted. I still love u you Jay p!.
they both missed the mark on the courts and cases. most of them were refused on procedural grounds. not to mention the supreme cowards, as expected did not take up any of them. its the same for guns. what exactly is the point of a supreme court if they dont do what theyre supposed to?
Douglas Murray I love you. You are right and awesome!
Thank you both for this conversation.
Lack of truth is causing the chaos, too many lies for too long and the public is searching for truth.
in soviet amer... in Soviet Russia truth doesnt matter
Jesus is the Truth
We've all missed JBP enormously. So thankful that these two guys are back talking about the most important issues today.
Yes, indeed.
Talking? You mean glossary of all that Jazz?
@@aussiehillbilly what?
@@destructorzz7197 it wasn't much of a real discussion when they were throwing dirt about the election like Mockingbird media talking points. Oh Trump is such a Conspiracy wack job saying the election was stolen snort snort joke nudge nudge. I think the American people who voted for Trump deserve to be treated with more respect than what these two dished out. People's jobs just got destroyed and Canada is considering legal action and all l heard from these 2 elites was snort snort giggle giggle. Like a children's book Mr Giggle talked big deal to Mr Smirking!
@@aussiehillbilly Im glad to finally see that Jordan Peterson would have been among the first to denounce the Kulaks. maybe he needs to read some Solzhenitsyn..
Simply amazing! These are the political discussions we should he having.
Welcome back Jordan! I watched your Triggernometry interview recently and I'm so pleased to hear you say you're feeling a little better. I'm currently grappling with Maps of Meaning having read 12 rules for living, and I've bought you new book Beyond Order which I'm looking forward to getting my teeth into.
Time to get back to paper ballots with scrutineers from all parties present at the counting. I had the privilege of participating once. It was impossible to cheat the process. Bonus: working together at the task created a sense of friendship across the political divide.
While I agree with you, unfortunately those days are long past and not coming back.
@@jeffstock7819 In Canada we still use them.
This will never happen, the left has a vested interest in low integrity elections.
time to get back? are you so naïve that you don't see that this was intentional and that those days are over for good?
@@waffenwrapp62 It is something to propose, right? I am just glad we still use this in Canada.
These two thinkers: great
This conversation: greatly disappointing
Outcome: it's all so tiring...
We'll have to become our own heroes now
That's why that story keeps getting retold a thousand ways.
100%
Agreed
@@jimluebke3869 As long as people think that the voice of reason is "greatly disappointing", the cycle of violence repeats itself.
@@PitchBlackYeti That wasn't the voice of reason (logos), that was the voice of authority (ethos).
The two are very distinct rhetorical strategies. Aristotle saw "ethos" as most persuasive, and he's right, from a cynical point of view. The Enlightenment, however, saw "logos" as most persuasive, and that gave us the modern world.
I admire you both! God Bless you and family! ❤️👏🏻🙏🏻
I agree with the forgiveness argument, mostly because these days apologizing has no value.
In fact apologizing is seen like an admittance of guilt, you will still be thrown out of society, and still looked down on, even when you did what they asked.
All the while those who refuse to apologize and stand up for themselves seem to bounce back, and find a new society to operate in.
I've seen this happen in smaller circles, and of course we see this online wit celebritets all the time.
A few forensic audits would have settled the matter for all parties. None of the evidence was reviewed by the courts, only dismissed on procedural grounds. This only creates more division.
This is the base of the argument for me. If the election was result was so genuine, then why was there such a resistance and refusal to audit the swing states. It really boggles my mind that people expect people to trust the result when it was this close, and they were refusing to do an audit.
That’s why they refused. It’s pretty obvious the federal courts in America are all bought off by radical criminal democrats.
I posted on your daughters video about the hit piece the London Sun-Times did on you that you'll never meet most of us, but we love you and your family deeply. You've taught us, fought for us, and loved us even when you didn't know us. We've got your 6 Jordan.
Thanks both of you, cogent and coherent discussion.
Thanks for having Douglas on.
Teared up a bit when Douglas conveyed how happy he was to see JP healthy. Two people trying to make the world a better place.
Strange. These are two people who don’t usually stir sentiment
douglas and jordan perfect duo
@@utv5490 should be right up your street then........
🤮
@@geoffreynhill2833 nothing shows your ignorance more than hating on JP lol. Bet you couldn't tell me one thing you don't like about him that's true
"Where conversation ceases, war emerges."
2021's way of saying "The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters".
Wrong, First secession. That may be without war this time.
And, yet, skip ahead to 1:20 and they both advocate for ceasing conversation.
@@adidabax6809 They have joined the establishment and sold out. They are reaping rewards for it as we type.
@@powerbite92 The only reward for people like Jordan and Douglas to promote the establishment lies at this point is to be left alone. I think that's unlikely given the topics they've discussed. I just can't believe all of these people who built their followings on people seeking truth think they will go anywhere slamming the people who they trained to seek out truth.
So good to see you back, Dr. Peterson.
we didnt vote for the guy we voted for the idea. an outsider breaking in and actually doing something
Trump won and the honest world knows it. I don't know what's up w/these two, but I might take a guess...
On the discussion between Jordan and Douglas, the vast majority of the court decisions were not actually heard by the court, but dismissed because lack of standing. Buy I would admit Biden DID win, however why most people on the right believe the election was stolen, was not due to illegal ballots, but the fact virtually ALL negative messaging about the Biden/Harris ticket was NOT allowed by MSM.
@@lesliehoskey5590 Very true that anything negative re: Biden was kept quiet. However, there IS ample hard evidence that the election was stolen, e.g. many counties having more voters than their entire population, machines hooked up to the Internet (with foreign interference), the missing trailer (Jesse Morgan's USPS trailer full of completed ballots, which he'd been instructed to drive from NY to PA), ballots pulled out from beneath a table, and run multiple times, after all mandated monitors had been sent home due to 'major water pipe break', which was actually a urinal that had overflowed earlier in the day. They stole it. I hope they don't get away with it (I know it seems they are).
We voted for a candidate that put our country, thereby our people first. All people no matter their identity. This election was stolen from the record minority voters and democrats that voted for Trump. It scared the globalists.
@@keeptrying5962 it's a grand conspiracy.....every single person who says trump lost is in the satanism.. Everyone but trump and flynn is in on it!!
*parody*
"Inequality is a society devouring problem, the only worse problem is the proposed solutions" That is an amazing quote. J.P
Yes, progressive tax rates bad! Allowing the wealthy to pay zero percent tax good! Regressive taxes on the little guy also good! All the solutions bad! Problem good! EXCELLENT ARGUMENT! I'm hyped!
@Sarah Bukhara It's a bumper-sticker slogan that when brought to it's logical conclusion is horseshit, but it works on people like Dimosthenis.
Sad to hear both Douglas and Jordan seemingly swallowing the left narrative on Trump so readily.
To be fair jordan has always been a liberal who's never understood true conservatives or right wingers.
@@jeff2209 , try again.
They've never been Trump supporters and only academically try to understand why people voted for him. I forgive JP for being a bit out of touch given what he's gone through the last year or so but Murray has no real excuse. He just seems not to want to believe that the status quo is broken and so doesn't understand the source of the mistrust of people toward the system.
@@ThePhantazmya They were always gatekeepers.
@@jeff2209 Trump does not represent true conservatives. He represents revolutionaries who disguise themselves as conservatives. True conservatives do not encourage a violent attempt to overthrow the results of a Presidential election. Instead they look to conserve the Constitution, not overthrow it.
Earlier civilizations had profits at important times in their growth. we have ours as well. This is your very important job. You should not not be part of the political establishment but to critique and hold the powers to ideals and standards. To not let the public and the grass roots get lost in our own rhetoric. Have courage in europe Murray. Jordan we are so glad to see you standing again. It gives me great hope to know you both are standing strong. I will now start forwarding your video around. That is part of what I can do.
The article from Time magazine, the secret cabal, sure shines a whole new light on things.
Time has always been a vapid propaganda rag so I would be surprised if they published anything interesting for once, but maybe I'll check it out some time.
“We’re all crushed and formed by the society to our detriment and our benefit.”
-Jordan Peterson.
It’s such pure pleasure and delight to listen to every second of this conversation. It’s a depth of understanding and discussion at the root’s level of the society hidden from most people’s view.
Agreed. These intellectuals are investigating and discussing proper.
Yes I wrote about this 7 years ago but nobody wanted to believe it.
"In contrast to animals, our instincts no longer tell us humans what we must do. And in contrast to people in earlier times, tradition no longer tells us what we should do. Neither knowing what we must do, nor knowing what we should do, we no longer seem to know what we want to do." Viktor Frankl
Wow that's deep
The fact that I & many others instinctively know, that destroying the traditions of our ancestors is dangerous, makes a mockery of this quote....
I know that we must trust our instincts.
We should protect our traditions if we want to thrive.
That's cute. Other animals are not automatons, and we are not noble spirits. Your ability to make decisions IS instinctual, and a different animal makes decisions just as often.
@@ChairmanKam O..k.
Which is why the left attacks/seeks to destroy the four olds...old customs, old culture, old traditions and old habits.
If someone can prove that it is wrong to challenge election results with all that has come to light in PA, AZ, MI, WI, and GA, I will be glad to listen to the argument.
Re-listening to this again. It’s a great interview.
I respect both of you VERY much, and appreciate the work you both have done over the years. I am not a conservative, I am an atheist classical liberal, considerably alike to Ben Franklin, and to a certain extent Thomas Paine.. You said conservatives were resentful of democrats when they voted for Trump. That is not entirely accurate, and while it might be true for many who had voted for Obama and wer thusly disenfranchised by his actions, it is not indicative of the conservatives and classical liberals such as myself
Many of us no longer on the left are averse to authoritarians, Hillary wore her authoritarian war mongering like a full body suit. She made no effort to hide her glee at ending the lives of foreign leaders, she showed her abject disdain for we the people, she flaunted laws that had I done anything even close to what she did while I was in the US military would have resulted in my incarceration for at least ten years. Resentment is not the key, fear is not the key either though it is a larger component. Basic survival, that is why so many voted against Hillary.
Having been through two wars in 90-91, and 2003-04, deployed to Kuwait on 9/11, having listened to what these politicians said leading up to those conflicts, seeing the weak limp wrist ineffectiveness of Bill Clinton whilst he eviscerated the US military that lead to the massive overreaction and invasion happy Bush administration, both of which were lining their pockets from the conflicts in which friends of mine came home in boxes.. I knew full well what was in store if Hillary was elected. Yet, in 2016 I did not vote. I left it up to everyone else, because I was NOT a fan of Trump, haven't been able to stand to listen to him since I first learned of who he was back in the 1980s.
I figured Trump would be more war, and Hillary would be lots more war, abroad and at home. I am permanently disabled thanks to these useless wars that the politicians profited from, and we bled for, which means I am not a fan of war. The people I know who voted in '16 did not do so out of revenge or vengeance, it was out of self preservation. Those of us who voted for Trump last year also did it out of self preservation, and because the track record of democrats and the economy has been 'lackluster' at its most charitable.
When Trump tried to end the useless wars against brown people for oil and opiates, and the rest of government did everything they could to stop him, which from my vantage point sure looks like they are protecting their income stream, he won me over. When he banned the marxist based critical race theory which says I am bad just because I easily sunburn and can piss standing up and not soak my feet, he won me over again. When he managed to revive the industry that Bill Clinton sent to Mexico (of which my jobs were included and prompted me to go back to the military to survive) I came to actually like him despite STILL not liking to hear him speak.
Honestly I give zero fucks about the 'grabbing' remark, as it is 100% factual. When a female is sexually interested in you, she will not only allow but encourage you to do those sorts of things, they really like assertiveness and confidence. Its leftist spin that turned it into unwanted contact, if girls can want my crippled short ass like that and I am broke, some powerful taller than 6' guy with a few billion in his pocket is a shoe in. Obviously the Cheeto as I call him, talks like I do in some respects. He talks like a construction worker, mechanic, machinist, cold war military member, blue collar matter of fact why be all pleasant with overly verbose soft language. Obama was a stuffed shirt that acted more like a slightly masculine girl than a man. I bet homie can't even lift his own body weight. At the same time Clinton and Biden get a pass for their groping and other actions, and its ignored.. so obviously the leftists don't really give a damn about that sort of thing, unless they can use it as a cudgel against their opponents. Like Cavanaugh.
Being military I have a certain penchant for history, having been there when lots of it happened, like being stationed in Frankfurt West Germany when the Berlin Wall fell, and I have a large chunk of it on my shelf next to me, and catching CNN and the rest in lies about what we were doing and when, because I was the NCO in charge of that certain thing, I see patterns from the past cropping up. Just like Mr. Murray's recent PragerU video about history, I like to learn from the past, and try to avoid the mistakes of those who came before us. Standing on the shoulders of giants indeed.
What I see is current very recent history rhyming very closely with certain events in Europe, South America, Asia, and Africa, and Trump is actually an impediment to the horrors wrought by those events. I find myself among the 'other' that is maligned to create an exploitable rift in society. I am called every negative epithet they can conjure, by virtue of my German ancestry and unwillingness to embrace marxist ideology. Yeah a white guy who is all about liberty and against authoritarianism.
Looking back to just a few scant years before my father was born in 1945, I see the similarities of what I am being falsely accused of by virtue of characteristics I did not choose. Something entirely antithetical to what the USA is supposed to be, and now it is in the oval office once again. I am among the other, the nebulous oppressor class, and already there is talk about persecuting anyone who does not follow the ideology of the left. You see from my perspective socialists, communists, feminists, fascists, and progressives are all cut from the same cloth. Its the same pile of shit with different sprinkles. Its victim olympics, oppressor/oppressed, power and control, authoritarian top down celebration of mediocrity, at the expense of merit, competence, and achievement.
I am one of millions outside that abhorrent ideology.. and I used to be center left. They have moved so far left that they think the entire world has to be socialist, and that is the only way it makes sense that the goosestepping morons in Hugo Boss uniforms were 'far right' because those assholes were freakin socialists.
So it was not resentment, it was not vengeance for 'losing battles against the leftists' its all about our own survival. Unlike the leftists who wish to erase history (ostensibly so they can repeat their favorite parts of it e.g. gulags, camps, starvation, mass graves, etc) I and many others like me LEARN from history, and humans are quite adept at spotting patterns. When they spew the same rhetoric, with some of the nomenclature changed, as the likes of Karl, Vladimir, Joseph, Adolf, and Mao its not hard to see where they are headed. If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, shits like a duck, and quacks like a duck.. its not an fuzzy pet bunny. Seriously, take anything they write or say, plug in one of the 'evil others' from eastern Europe and you have the same damn rhetoric as those who gave us the Gulag Archipelago, Auschwitz, Dachau, Ukraine famine, Killing Fields, and others.
They chose the wrong 'other' this time. We are not a bunch of serfs living hand to mouth with no means of resistance, beholden to the government for our very existence and thus at its mercy.
Remember, I am a green energy producing atheist who has perhaps a few too many gay and trans friends, that has been engaged to girls other than white, loved meeting new people and learning about their culture in my world travels, for me to fit the narrative that everyone who isn't a marxist has to be a klan member who adores Adolf and his idiots, while oppressing people far more resistant to UV light than we are. All you need to do is read their literature and you can see that its marxist 101 to call non marxists every bad name they can conjure.
When/if I am evicted from my meat suit in a future conflict, I bequeath my chunk of poorly made concrete with BERLIN 1989 scrawled on it in sharpie to both of you. If I die in my sleep or at the controls of one of my vehicles, my daughter gets it. Its nearly circumnavigated the world with me as it sat on the windowsill of my room at Rhein Main AB until 1991, and Osan AB in 2002-2003.
Its about survival. I have no plans to go quietly into the mass grave.
Here here!
I hope they read this. (I am sick with disappointment with both of them. )
I read tons of comments on these blogs. Yours -by far- was the best I’ve ever read. Thank you sir for your service.
@@pabs5270 Agreed. Normally I don’t bother reading a comment that long. But this was 100% engaging and relevant. Unlike Peterson and Murray. Two people who are too far up themselves.
@@keeptrying5962 Some of us just refuse to believe it could possibly be true. There is a saying in Spanish: El león juzga por su condición. The lion judges according to his nature. The thief believes all are thieves. Jordan is an honorable man; he believes all men are honorable. I'm no saint, but have difficulty believing that my mother's country could possibly have become so corrupt, though I came back to my birthplace because I instinctively felt better here.
The courts dismissed almost all of the cases on technical issues, almost all dismissed on standing not hearing the evidence.
I said the same thing at that point. Many of the cases were denied simultaneously on standing and doctrine of latches - which if you address one you would be caught out on the other, basically a catch-22. If the courts had at least heard the cases on their merits then I might agree with them.
Furthermore they are taking the view that what is happening with the 2020 election is the equivalent of 2016/Russiagate. It is not equivalent because the propents for that conspiracy theory got all the court hearings they wanted and more. However what we found from the Russiagate saga was that the institutions and the process was used as a political weapon and this exposed the corruption of the institutions we are supposed to trust.
It's almost like they are projecting the wishful thinking that they are engaging in themselves. Perhaps they should talk to someone who actually understands the lawsuits and US legal/political history such as Robert Barnes.
This is an important distinction
Looking forward to both of these men becoming permanent commentators on CNN
Thanks Douglas for all that you say including we missed you Jordan
What a wonderful surprise. Just finished Murray's Madness of Crowds - this should be a good chat.
I just finished it this month too.
@@zachgeary5088 agreed - I got the audiobook, as well. 👍
@Joseph To be better. Feel progress. Learn new skills, and ultimately be a force for good in the community. That’s one of the many reasons I do it.
If I can recommend a couple of books, check out Logos Rising and Degenerate Moderns
Great. It's still on my reading list.. Worth it?
After reading the comments, there seems to be a fairly large group of people who believe that both Dr. Peterson and Douglas failed to not only get to the heart of why people voted for and supported Trump, but also consider the evidence his supporters say exists. Whether they want to believe it or not, should they not at least look at it? I propose that we politely tweet at Dr. Peterson and ask him to interview someone who does believe there were issues with the election. I would like to nominate Sargon of Akkad as someone to speak with. Sargon has covered the election and all the funny business extensively. Even if after the interview, Dr. Peterson is not convinced, AT LEAST he will have given the other side a fair shot.
Edit. I see a lot of you mentioned some other candidates who you believe would be a better representative than Sargon for the side who believe there was election tampering . I will list a few here and hope that Dr. Peterson sees it.
Interesting discussion:
Robert Barnes
Steven Crowder
Victor Davis Hanson
Dave Rubin
Rand Paul
Rudi Giuliani
Candace Owens
James Delingpole
Joshua Phillips
Note: some of these people I do not know I am merely listing your guys opinions to get them noticed on a comment with some likes.
I would appreciate feedback on the list.
@@djknox2 These are great suggestions--I was thinking of VDH and Rubin myself. Black is excellent too. I was really surprised and dismayed by the podcast. It was the most politically naive and intellectually confused I've ever seen Dr. Peterson.
As someone who does not believe that election fraud took place - what would be the one video to look at that presents the case most convincingly?
@Anabel Poe This is exactly the problem I am talking about. Just because you decide it does not exist does not mean it doesn't, or perhaps of equal importance, that there are many people who feel it does.
Whether Dr. Peterson or Douglas believe it doesn't exist also does not matter. What I was suggesting was that they just speak to someone on the other side, allow them to present what they believe is evidence of wrong doing.
Since Dr. Peterson has come back he has not spoken to anyone with a different opinion on the election or Donald Trump in general. I am not even an American and I think he is mischaracterizing why many people voted for Trump in the first place, and why they continue to support him. Again, I am not saying that everyone needs to be forced into agreement, I am only saying that a discussion between Dr. Peterson and someone like Carl Benjamin (Sargon) who does disagree would be beneficial and informative for everyone.
@@katybell9612 have you got a link to a particularly convincing one? That RSBN channel sure has a lot of videos...
@Anabel Poe how do you know may I ask?
Excellent commentary and analysis. Welcome back, Jordan!
Once again, thank you both for sharing your brilliant and interesting perspectives. Dr. Peterson, I first heard you on the Gary Null Show and have benefited from your insights since. i would love to see Dr. Null on your show.
After this podcast I'm even more worried about democracy than before...
Democracy is dead. In my country the two parties are in bed together they are so close. For what it's worth we may well only have one party.
Democracy is dead. In my country the two parties are in bed together they are so close. For what it's worth we may well only have one party.
Let Democracy die Daniel. It's a sham. A lie. A facade.
I think that acknowledgment of the problem is the only way to begin the healing process. We have to see what’s wrong in order to help.
Same here. Both Peterson and Murray have totally folded here. Worrying times.
Normally Dr. Peterson gives me hope for society, but today this comment section does. These two are missing so much information it makes me wonder if it’s intentional.
Agreed, but I don't think it's intentional. I think they are a bit naive and want to see the good and the bad equaly in both sides, even at the price that this will distort their view. They should listen more to James Lindsay, that might wake them up.
I don’t think it’s intentional. JP has been out of the loop for awhile and neither are Americans.
Agreed 100%... both a bit like two aging has-beens .. not quite understanding the real point .. but trying to use elegant language to basically say nothing
@@ActiuneBaza ... yes I agree with you. They use different words- to say the same thing !
I do feel sorry for Jordan .. he does look a beaten Man. I wonder what exactly happened to him?
Jason Judd he looks far better. They are talking fairly philosophically which is perhaps why you’re not hearing what you want to hear.
I read Douglas Murray's book, The Madness of Crowds and would say that I Iearned new things about many things. Mr. Murray makes plain some complicated issues. Two great minds here.
Look how sincere Douglas is when he is talking about having missed JP when he was sick
Now this a conversation 2020 was in desperate need of.
@Joseph why are you repeating yourself?
@Joseph so we can achieve certain dreams and live a happy life
Nah not really, 2020 had several conversations that went over and beyond JBP, if I can recommend one channel check out The Meaning of Catholic, it’s stellar
Imagine posting this before even watching.....
@Joseph Why have relationships if they will end? To experience love. Why make more money if you have to spend it? To be financially stable and independent. Why strive for a better body and a healthy mind? Because it will make you strong enough to endure the burden of life and maybe even enjoy it. Or you could waste away and rot in a corner, thats always an option.
I think it’d be great to hear you have a conversation with an intellectual Trump supporter. It’d probably get deleted for hate speech but it’s worth it! There’s a lot of misconceptions about Trump and his supporters and I’m sure you of all people could help clear things up. Thanks for everything.
Listening to democrats say number #1 issue is “climate change” and helping China--- when their is an ongoing Holocaust in China -- you know USA democrats are the most corrupt politicians on earth in a global corruption and cover up -----
I suggest Victor D Hanson
James Lindsay, Gad Saad?
Eric Weinstein
🕯️Shalom, thank you for your service.
Conversations such as these should be on the BBC. I can dream, can't I?
Small clarification: The court cases were rejected on standing. The evidence was not examined.
Can you explain that for me? Is it that states rule whatever.
One would think that the best lawyers to be found to argue those cases would understand standing right? Why did they waste their time? Were they hoping to find a sympathetic set of judges? Just weird to me. It's like bringing a frivolous lawsuit when on the face of it any person that has passed the bar would know the suit has no chance.
@@isabelpage1964 For instance if you were my best friend and got hit by a car, I couldn't claim damages because im your best friend. Only the person or party who is harmed can claim the damages. That person has standing to bring the case. Texas in one case tried to sue the US government over Pennsylvania's State law. Texas tried to claim they were harmed by another states law...If a group of Pennsylvanians had sued, they would have had standing because they are from Pennsylvania. Texas has no standing when it comes to another state's law.
@@johndohart895 That's only ONE case. There have been a lot of other cases that were heard, and Trump's lawyers in most cases never even alleged significant fraud altering the outcome of the election.
@@johndohart895 That was my main issue with the courts. I would have just like the evidence examined. It was clear that multiple states changed election law with the executive branch is an issue.
"Supporting Trump at the moment, is something that needs to be rethought" Supporting Biden at the moment needs a forensic investigation...
It's possible to disapprove of Trump and Biden simultaneously. We deserve better across the board.
@@zackaccount I agree with you in principle, however that is the choice America faced for president, and I fear America made the wrong one...
@@path8375 I completely agree.
@@path8375 we've been through worse than biden or trump or Obama or Bush.
@@zackaccount Remember that the American nation and freedom was established by flawed men, some of the deeply flawed.
Hey Dr. Peterson, huge fan. You've helped me get through a lot of philosophical conundrums in my life. I am currently getting 'lit up' on my facebook page right now by far left extremists. I have taken some screen shots if you are interested in reading them. History repeating itself. Also messaged you on instagram.
Welcome Douglas and Jordan!
Last time I was this early CNN was a reliable news organization
😂
CNN was a realisable news organisation? Sorry I'm only 31 I can't remember that far back 🤣
@@watsongames5543 It was OK in the 90s
@@watsongames5543 Well, only 5/7 years ago Don Lemon had a very different take on black people & crime. This year he openly stated he believes the only way to achieve equality is to "burn the whole system down" - something went wrong there.
@@gl4285 yeah I saw that on Crowder 😂 I was genuinely shocked to hear him talking about fatherlessness
"Cause damage to the current political system"?
I say Good. That's why "we" put him in.
It's resentment. It kills. JP specializes in analysing such resentment-driven destructing patterns. You, good sir, are a part of the problem here
Brilliant, Honest & Good Men.
Good to have you back.
Jordan, in case you think "well, this video barely got any downvotes despite the comment section being filled with criticism - they must be a vocal minority or something", think again. We're just not so resentful as to lash out just because we think you got something wrong.
Wrong conclusion, you are a minority. Nobody else cares enough. There are very few people in america privileged enough to have free time to spend thinking/arguing about politics. That is the group you and I fall into. An extreme minority. Instead of writing this comment, they would be worrying to pay a bill or pick up their kids.
Negative events provoke human beings to action far more easily than positive events. All the people that agree with peterson or simply don't think deeply about what he says but watch the video nonetheless - very few of them comment. On the other hand, most of the people who disagree with him will come to the comments to talk about it. It makes sense, the negativity bias. If there's nothing wrong, it's business as usual, nothing to fix, just move along. If it's negative, there's something wrong, there's something to be done, there's something you need to speak forth to correct the world.
@@FireRebel Sure, maybe. I just meant that 'people who believe that there are reasonable justifications for doubting the legitimacy of the US election are not a minority *relative to* the overall viewership of this video'.
True for me! Conversation was disappointing in many aspects, but I still upvoted.
We do love Jordan Peterson, don't we.
Yes. Thank you
Jordan spent years lecturing about creeping totalitarianism and now that its literally happening, everyone is "falling into conspiratorial thinking." Lol.
I know ironic isn’t it --
Maybe he knows he's the first on the gestapos hitlist, and being from canada there is no 2A.
He’s a broken man
Let’s say this shift into the official ‘safest election ever narrative’ was inspired by CZcams ...
Seriously, I didnt know about the side effect of benzo's in which they disintegrate one's spine
Great discussion!
2nd time was even better.
Thank you!
Dear Mr Peterson and Mr. Murray,
I admire you both so much, you both bring light and truth to the darkness of our times. I will pray that both of you come to the fullness of truth through Our Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Way, the Truth and the Life. I shall pray for you both. Thank you for your intelligence, you are both great gifts to the world.