Everytime I hear one of these other channels or comments saying "No Way Home fixed MCU Spider-Man" I think about you and give my best J Jonah Jameson laugh.
God Tom Holland Spider-Man is so underrated. It feels like you are the only one who actually understands what the MCU is doing with him. This is how I would put MCU Spider-Man’s character arc in the trilogy. When Uncle Ben died Peter became a hero, When Tony died Peter became independent, When Aunt May died Peter became a man, He gained a mature understanding of the world.
I wouldn’t say underrated maybe under appreciated like Tom has plenty of fans more than probably most interpretations of spider man besides Tobey. I just think he just has more criticism hurled towards him than Tobey or some of the animated versions.
!!NWH SPOILER!! I think that aunt may's adaptation of The phrase "With great there must also come great responsibility" is more impactful here than when it is said by uncle ben. Uncle ben never saw the side of peter that was spiderman, looking back on it it felt more like advice you'd give a struggling adolescent than a superhero motto. MCU aunt may saw and understood peters lows and his struggles with the responsibilty and I think that makes her saying the iconic phrase a lot more impactful. Not saying its better than uncle ben's but I felt it was more important in NWH than it wouldve been in a flashback to the MCU uncle ben saying it before that spiderman came to be.
In Home series she played the role not only aunt and mother, but also big sister and BFF. She took care of Peter, support him when he's down, giving flirting tips, queer guide for party, etc. This extra layers makes her demise more meaningful and more impactful. These are some things previous Uncle Ben iteration lack off.
That may be true, but I also thought it hit harder because I didn't expect it. When you see uncle ben, you know he's going to die. When I first saw amazing spiderman 2, I knew gwen could die because the trailers showed a pretty accurate representation of some elements of her death in the comics. But May's death felt like it had more impact because it came out of nowhere. The great power line came out of nowhere. We came to the realization of her fate as Peter did, and I feel like that made it hit 10 times harder.
@@arthand7672 Some jerk intentionally spoiled it on the internet, so I knew Aunt May might die. But I was hoping it would be untrue. Unfortunately It wasn't.
I’ve…never thought about the difference between having a conscience and feeling guilty before. I always thought they went hand in hand. Once again your brilliant essays have offered me insight into myself I’ve been lacking.
What irritates me the most is when people say Spider-Man and Aunt May were stupid for wanting to help these people. I'm sorry, but do these fools not know who Spider-Man really is?
These fools pretend to be pragmatic but actually contributed nothing and enjoy mocking & criticize those who really make effort. For me they sound like spiteful gambler being salty for losing bet, hindsightly.
Ill only say that the Uncle Ben in Spider-man 2 isn't Ben, its a manifestation of Peter's guilt telling him to keep being Spider-man even though its destroying him
Which is exactly what uncle Ben is in the comic books. Which is why it’s fucking stupid to act like uncle Ben was a “messiah” figure in the Raimi films
Cultural amnesia is so strong that Andrew Spiderman having web shooters pissed me off, I thought Spiderman always had Organic shooters despite watching the animated 90s spiderman having web shooters.
There's probably a lot of misconceptions about Spider-Man that the Raimi movies started. But it's kind of to be expected with whatever the first mainstream version of a franchise is (like people think TMNT is just goofy because of the 80s cartoon despite the original comics and movie having a darker tone)
@@LeopoldLitchenstein I remember my first time learning about the OG TMNT comics and being shocked how dark it was compared to pretty much every adaptation after it.
@@Wiki1184 I grew up with the 90 movie and the 2003 show which were pretty much based on them entirely, so I wasn't too surprised to hear the comics are pretty gory, but it is really jarring compared to how they're depicted most of the time nowadays
@@LeopoldLitchenstein what are some of these misconceptions? I believe the web shooters thing is a misconception, sure but uncle Ben is adapted directly from the comic books in the Raimi films.
@@Awesomemusic19 Mostly stuff the MCU movies do, like Spider-Man changing outfits so much (he doesn't do it nearly as often in the first 5 Spider-Man movies) or having help from other Marvel heroes, and even how Uncle Ben is portrayed as the one to give the "great power" line. In the comics it was just a thought bubble, but the 2002 movie basically connected it to Ben and most future versions like Spectacular and the 2017 cartoon followed suit. And that's fine honestly, but the way Ben is handled across the trilogy (or at least, in 3) is a bit too heavy handed. It fits fine in 2 because it helps with the arc Peter has in that film, but they didn't need to retcon 1 in order to get Ben involved in the story yet again. I know my opinion doesn't matter as much as others since I've only read a small handful of Spider-Man comics, but I really don't think Ben needs to play a large role in Peter's life past the origin story once Peter has emotionally moved on from him. The equivalent of Ben being forced back into Spider-Man 3's plot would be like if Tony was still part of NWH's main plot, people would hate it and say that MCU Spider-Man is still "Iron Boy Jr."
Just wanted to say this dropped a minute after I walked out of No Way Home for the third time; and this is now the fifth time I’m watching this particular essay. You are so thoughtful and you clearly love Spider-Man for the character he is, not this strange ideal that’s been set by pop culture. I grew up in the 2000’s; but as a kid I got the chance to read most of the Lee/Romita run (with a little bit of Lee/Ditko sprinkled in), mostly thanks to some guy who donated a shit ton of old comics. I found myself genuinely loving the direction of MCU Spider-Man more than any previous iterations, but if you say that on the internet….it’s considered blasphemy. I’m so glad you came along Leo, and proved what makes MCU Spidey so great. Thank you.
Oh, Implicitly Pretentious comment section is truly the place for kindred spirits. I LIKE the MCU Spider-Man take because it captures his core in the pages and his birth, but saying that aloud on the Internet or the real world can usher a loud gasp way too many times than it should!
I love the Raimi movies too but I did always kinda find it weird how they depicted Peter Parker’s heroism as essentially just pure guilt. I definitely do think NWH handles the heroic ideal better, Peter Parker isn’t Spider-Man because of any one person he’s lost, it’s because it’s who he is at heart and when he loses ppl it’s more of a test, forks in the road that shape him into the person he becomes.
Not true. Guilt played a role in the raimi movies but it wasn’t the only thing nor even essential. In Spider-Man 2 he becomes Spider-Man again because he realizes the value of a hero after Aunt May’s speech. But I do agree that Spider-Man being Spider-Man because he’s a hero at heart is way better than just because of guilt. And I also think MCU Spider-Man displays that nicely!
I disagree, guilt can be seen as the whole reason Peter parker became Spider-Man… he started off as this selfish kid, who get blessed with powers decides to use them for selfish gains and gets big headed and could’ve easily stopped a guy robbing someone , but didn’t because that wasn’t his problem, then that guy goes on to kill uncle Ben… and when he confronts the guy he learns he could’ve stopped the dude and his uncle Ben would’ve been alive… if that’s not guilt then I don’t know what is. And honestly that’s the whole reason why Peter is relatable though , he’s made stupid mistakes in his past and is trying to own up to them, by making a conscious effort to make the right one
Essentially pure guilt? Uncle Ben's last appearance in the films is Peter Parker saying "no I can't live your dreams" He only tries to be a hero, even without his powers cuz he sees a family with a missing child in a burning building . He is naturally heroic
@@umbrellaphantom yeah, essentially. I think it's good that heroes have flaws like that, and I don't think enough people understand that. Peter isn't Perfect, and him constantly feeling guilty for something that he did isn't a bad thing. It's a human thing. This was the point of Spider-Man 2. Peter realized that he's being Spider-Man in the least healthy way possible, and learns that he can be both Peter & Spider-Man not just one or the other.
i like that uncle ben was an actual father figure in tasm. you got to see their relationship before the angst and before ben’s death, and through that understand the growth of peter’s moral compass through him without having to resort to guilt as much as the raimi trilogy did
One of the things Amazing Spidey did better than Raimi is it shows how Uncle Ben lived. The Home Trilogy did a remarkable job on Aunt May with this. I don't know whether it was by chance or design but it was a blast.
@@chengkuoklee5734 I wouldn't say she was remarkable, she was kinda more of used as a "hot" joke in the first movie and even after finding out Peter's identity she still didn't worry about him much in the second one and was pretty much used as a joke with Happy, the only time we actually saw her address concern for Peter's safety was in the Thai restaurant which was before she knew, it was only NWH that started portraying her seriously and more than just the "cool and hot aunt"
I also liked how he and Peter’s last conversation went and how Peter got mad at him before he died. As much as I loved the Rami films Peter just snapped at Uncle Ben out of nowhere.
@@giovanniluke3882 Homecoming and FFH took her seriously to an extent. Early on in Homecoming, she tries to communicate with Peter when he won't talk to her at dinner. She tells him to run away from a big fight like what happened at the ATMs. A bit later, she drives Peter and Ned to the party and gives them advice on how to act. When Peter comes home from the boat later on in the movie, she's worried and angry. Once he says he lost the Stark internship, she hugs him and acts as a mother would towards an upset son. She even helps Peter out with getting ready for his date and gives him more advice. I was confused as to why she was so supportive of him in FFH, but NWH really justified it with her wanting Peter to always do the right thing. She knew he was growing up and loved the man he was becoming. When she was dying, she could see that Peter was struggling to stick to his moral compass, so she reassured him and helped him grow more as a person because she didn't want him to second-guess his good nature and go down a dark path. That shows why she was so supportive. And on the same note, regarding her telling him to run away from something like that in Homecoming versus her being supportive of him being Spider-Man, it's because he was basically her kid. She still had responsibility to protect him in her eyes. Once she found out he was Spider-Man, she knew that he had started growing into a man like I mentioned before. So, her responsibility over him was no more. That doesn't mean she never worried about him. She hugged him when he came back home in FFH because she knew he was safe. She was worried. They even talked on the phone after the first big fight in FFH. She wasn't panicking, but she was definitely relieved to hear his voice and even changed the topic from Spider-Man stuff to Peter stuff talking about his plan with MJ. And ofc, she was worried when Green Goblin had beaten him to a bloody pulp. I agree that all the jokes can make it hard to see how great of a character she was, but when you read between the lines, she was honestly a great Aunt May. She was just a "Mom" who wanted what's best for her growing-up "son" and tried to always benefit the man who she saw him becoming, even if it worried her. Watching Homecoming and FFH with the benefit of hindsight coming from NWH really helped me see that picture more clearly
@@_the_rizzler Yeah, to an extent, I feel like they probably should have showed it more clearly especially in FFH, also I did mention her worrying for him in the Thai restaurant so no need to remind me of that, but I do agree on the rest of your points in Homecoming, I admit I missed that, but they still missed the mark in FFH, your point is that she doesn't worry about him because of what she told him in NWH, but that was like a year (I think) since she found out, so she's had time to let Peter being Spider-Man sink in, no doubt she was almost losing her mind about his secret identity at first, but they had the timeskip between Homecoming and FFH so they skipped over her being terrifed of Peter being Spider-Man, and they missed an opportunity when Jon Watts retconned the original intention of having May survive the snap, it could have created an interesting story of May being relieved to have Peter back of losing him and living alone for FIVE YEARS, and trying to hide her concerns with him going on the school trip far from home
When I think about my first memories of Spiderman, the 90s cartoon comes to mind where he is constantly in his own head questioning everything. That struck a chord with me as a kid, and more so now that I actually have responsibility. 🙌🏾 great video as always
I'm more of a 90s Spidey cartoon fan than live action. I felt Home series vibe closer to the cartoon Peter than Raimi's. Well, that's my personal opinion.
I gotta leave the now classic comment of: HITOP FILMS WANTS TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION. Loved the video! This week I was just thinking how FFH is all about self doubt, and then you released this. Awesome content.
@@diannajennings266 I mean I don’t agree with HITOP films points a lot but he doesn’t read as a narcissistic person. Then aging I haven’t meet a lot of narcissist people
@@diannajennings266 Spider man means something different to him, his opinion does not mean anything. it does not change what movies come out, you already have a MCU Spiderman show in the works and No Way Home is selling millions.
Im bias, but i don't want to be a peter parker who can't decide if attention or being a good person is more important, i can see that all the time just looking at all the people trying to harass others for positive attention. To me peter parker is a person cursed with the power to prevent others suffering yet at the expense of his own well-being. he goes though hell to so no one has to suffer like him, as someone who's personally dealt with being gr----ed and wishes to had done more to prevent my gr----er from hurting others, that is who i wish to be to my best ability. That version of parker might not be accurate but it means more to me.
@@Courier_333 Hmm... If I could hazard a guess, it's because HiTop's take basically became the rally point for those who didn't understand comicbook +/ MCU Spidey, which is then used to bash those who like the latter? I mean, if you argue for MCU Spidey, sooner or later you'll get slapped with a link to HiTop's video. They are kinda the face of that side of the argument, and gained a large steam and voices. Thus, it's kinda normal for people like us to feel kinda miffed about that movement and points at them as the representative of the movement.
@@lyndiss.2017 "Didn't understand comic book" - yes you are objectively right about the character... I disagree with him but you're giving this kid sooooo much power lmao- This is like star wars sequels levels of being mad at others opinions. Idk there are toxic people who dislike MCU Spidey but there are toxic people in every fandom...
@@Courier_333 I didn't give dude any power. Others, who flocked to them, did. How I feel about them isn't relevant to how influential they are. "You're giving them power by giving them attention in your mind"--that sort of self-improvement, "Dr." Oz-level vacuous quote doesn't work when it's simply an objective thing that HiTop doesn't understand comicbook Spidey, bashes MCU Spidey over it, and serves as a clarion horn for those with similar mindset where they build up their momentum and steam. Hating MCU Spidey became "cool" more or less after HiTop started his "Far From Home broke me" video. *Again, OP ain't wrong.* But sure. The world is totally manipulated by your mind. Someone is powerful because I assign them power, never mind the objective fact about them. I mean, if that helps _you,_ /shrugs
Somebody who thinks the human torch was Spider-Man’s “role model” and played a bigger role to him than uncle Ben does not understand Spider-Man like the back of his hand, and is clearly misrepresenting these comics in bad faith for an ulterior motive, rather than to have a meaningful, low-level-bias analysis.
@@Awesomemusic19 Huh? Dude Peter barely even thinks about Uncle Ben in the comics how tf was Uncle Ben more of a role model than the Human Torch, the first person who was his true reference point?
@@sarcasticsuperjerk18 the human torch is not his true reference point LMAO that is fucking ridiculous. They are literally like best friends- he’s not a mentor for him wtf is this shit that you all eat up 😂😂😂
Man, I just wanna say thank you so much for these essays. I’ve always loved Spider-Man but never actually read the original issues, but you’re videos have encouraged me to and it’s been such a fun ride falling in love with a character who’s so much more in depth then I understood before, that I can’t stop talking to those around me about it.
I love your takes on Tom Hollands Peter, you articulate so well why I like him the most from the three live action Spider Man's :) Edit: Oh and your background music selection is 10/10
I'm five hours into writing insert chapters for this bloody novel and just as I say "let's take a break," I look at CZcams and find a new IP video. Cheers. This has quickly become the kind of channel I instantly click on when I see new stuff come out.
“It’s the only fitting memorial for who you were..my father, teacher, friend! For whatever I am - - whatever I’ve become - - whatever good I’ve done with the powers fate gave me, the best of me came from you, Uncle Ben” - The Amazing Spider-Man #181 The raimi films didn’t invent “Messiah Uncle Ben” he was treated as a role model and father figure countless times in the comics’ 40 years worth of history long before Raimi’s first Spider-Man film released, and yes, he did canonically say the great power line (The Spider-Man Versus Wolverine storyline confirmed it) a lot of writers have expanded on the mythos in ways that go in tandem with Lee/Ditko’s run
@Erik Kemeey 1. I mention this because his videos give off the notion that this “messiah uncle ben” is purely a product of the raimi movies 2. Whenever mentions of Ben’s importance are brought up in Lee’s original run, Implicitly briefly goes over it and then completely dismisses it. Peter literally calls Aunt May and uncle Ben the only family he’s ever had in that run (they filled that mother/father role for him) so yes, he was always a father figure 3. Stan became editorial director and publisher of Marvel during Conway’s run all the way up to the 90s, so if you’re going to argue that only the first 100 issues are the “True Spider-Man” because Stan wrote them, just remember that Stan had heavy involvement with the comics long after the first 110 issues (his job was to literally plan, coordinate and revise the comics)
@Erik Kemeey Then why use a scene of Peter calling Ben his father in the Raimi trilogy as an example of them getting it wrong when there’s a lot of lines very similar to this in the comics? And again, Ben was portrayed as a wise and good hearted man who taught Peter important moral values/principles long before the Raimi trilogy and while Stan was still involved with the comics up til the 90s, even Spider-Man The Animated Series portrays him this way and has him saying the great power line. Heck, before the raimi trilogy came out they released an annual about how Peter’s true heroes are people like Aunt May and uncle Ben opposed to the heroes he reads about in comics and newspapers, which is why the whole “Peter’s true role model was The Human Torch” is bullshit (Peter literally tries to steal his girlfriend and they get in each other’s way quite a lot lmao)
I love all of your Spider-Man videos; it's gotten me to think even deeper on my favorite hero, and bought the Masterworks of the Lee-Ditko run to read through for myself.
I have never read Stan's hundred issue run all I know is aspects of the stories.... but damn, I love how the comics explore so many dimensions of Peter and isn't scared to treat him less than ideal. Compared to say the raimi or the holland trilogy... I would really love, to see more of that psychology explored than just make the same old commentary about responsibility over and over again.
Dope analysis. I like how you really examine the quotes and panels in a way not many other You Tubers do. I actually wish you could use and compare the Ultimate Spider-Man run to both the classic Stan Lee/Steve Ditko run and each movie counterpart as well! Keep up the good work!
I like the fact that the death of uncle ben in the other movies is caused because he took the bad decision, but in this world he lost his aunt because he took the right one... there's more weight
Hard to believe Watt and the writers successfully pulled off with John Hughes style teen comedies(for 2/3) theme. Wonder who's going to direct next trilogy, and under what theme.
Peter is always portrayed as a boy with a good heart that gets corrupted by power then saved by uncle Ben. Just for once I would like a Spider-Man story where Peter starts off like a jerk and has to unlearn that behavior as Spidey. But as a slow process, not something that gets rectified by Uncle Ben's death (though that motivates his desire to be better)
OMG... I am literally blown away by this absolutely beautiful analysis. This is so well executed and it shows that you have such a deep understanding of the character. I can only appreciate these films more after watching this amazing content. Marvel/Sony needs you in the writing room a.s.a.p. Would love to see you do a TED Talk on the importance of preserving these comics, their cultural influence and why they've remained so impactful across generations. Again, just wonderful content.
I thought of an idea for a potential future video: A discussion about James Cameron's canceled Spider-Man movie and see how his version compares to other adaptations.
Thank you for clarifying the dissonance between the original spider-man and the raimi version. It's what has bugged me since i was a kid watching the films. I love raimi as a director but that series was wholly different than what we know of the comics.
Nice song of the day choice. It comes from my favorite show of all time! Also great video again! I really learn a lot about Spider-Man in these videos.
Thanks for the ride this year, lots of great analysis and insight on Spiderman + his original comics run. I felt your series of vids really added a lot to the experience for my first watch of No Way Home. Happy new year!
The movie just made me realize to me at the time that I don’t think Uncle Ben exist in the MCU at all since even when they brought him up MCU Peter didn’t even consider saying anything about him even something like “Yeah mine died too” or “He left a long time ago” I was just hoping he’d just mention his name
Uncle Ben has subtle references in multiple movies, some open to interpretation and the one direct one with the suitcase in FFH, but they directly referenced Uncle Ben in the What If Marvel Zombies episode which would canonize him. They also have the MCU animated prequel Spider-Man series which is very likely to have Uncle Ben in that also. I would’ve also liked for them to directly mention him in NWH also though, an obvious opportunity missed.
@@YungLanxx At the very end, they could've just shown May and Ben's graves side by side. I loved the movie and especially the ending but damn missed opportunity
@@Courier_333 oh yeah I forgot about that, especially that. That they should’ve done at least. I really don’t understand who’s creative decision it is to omit Ben as much as possible but I personally think it’s the wrong decision
I watch your videos quite a lot and have learned more about Spider-man than I've ever known, but after this video I kind of get why Peter can't lift (or use, rather) Mjolnir. I can't quite put it into words but people attribute it to his decision to not kill but I think its about his internal motives or that specific conflict of looking for redemption. If he'd accept or overcome this conflict then he'd be "worthy" or maybe (for lack of sounding pretentious) worthy of himself.
Do not use this video as a tool to learn anything about Spider-Man. It’s completely wrong and misrepresents These comic books in horribly bad faith. Just read the comics yourself.
I haven't watched Spider-Man 2 in a couple years, and since then I've always thought that Peter himself seems almost like a bit of a flat character. It feels like, if he wasn't Spider-Man, he would be this perfect guy who did everything right, and that isn't a human character at all. Even though when I first read it I thought it was strange that Peter stopped helping the police and could have let a criminal go, it shows he is human. This issue was ASM #1, and after being blamed for doing all these crimes, and then when he gets tackled by the police, thinking he is again the chameleon, he runs off crying, saying "I just wanted to help, but when I do it always gets rejected" or something like that. In this way I think Spider-Man 3 does a better job with development, as Peter has ego and pride before the black suit comes, showing he's human.
"if he wasn't Spiderman, he would be this perfect guy" Peter Parker stops being Spider-Man in THAT VERY MOVIE- his life does not go perfect, there's literally a montage of him being a dork and tripping a bunch of times- he tries to pressure MJ to leave her fiance just cuz he came to see her show- then gets rejected again because he's selfish HES NOT PERFECT
@@Courier_333 fair enough, but I'm not talking about his life. I'm talking about if he WASN'T spider-man, he would've got MJ. Still a great movie though.
@@Courier_333 True, but throughout the montage it does show his life getting better and then, after being rejected by MJ at first, at the diner MJ was about to give in to Peter (granted in worldly commentary it was through manipulation) but that was after he had decided to be Spider-Man again so he rejects her. Therefore, in a sense, the movie does say he would have what he wanted if he wasn’t Spider-Man, but despite that I agree with your other points and it is still a great movie
Spider-Man 2 is about Peter Parker realizing WHY he's Spider-Man, and it's not uncle Ben, it's himself. He literally tells uncle Ben "I can't keep living your dreams" and that's the last time he's mentioned in the movie Peter Parker literally loses his powers from SELF DOUBT and despite that saves a little girl in a burning building- with no powers. The entire movie is him getting shit on by seemingly everyone, even if that's not necessarily true. And it's clear in his head he does blame being Spider-Man on uncle ben- that the responsibility is too much to bare. But when he becomes Spider-Man again, it's not because of uncle Ben at all- it's because the world needs Spider-Man- it's a responsibility. And the climax Peter's arch is the train scene where he finally gets the love and understanding and care that Spider-Man has needed. To understand why he is who he is and why it's worth it. Being Spider-Man IS definitely a sacrifice but it's not out of all out of guilt That's at least my opinion, as someone whose favorite movie of all time is Spider-Man 2- I don't think uncle Ben is more important than Peter's own drive
Excellent Video Essay, as always. Spider-Man: No Way Home was PERFECT, still bawling over it, so mind-blowing. I have a request for you, Implicitly Pretentious. Can you do a Video Essay dissecting Spider-Man And Black Cat's Relationship throughout the years and decades.
lol seeing how horribly bad implicitly pretentious botched the early comic books, idk why you’d want him anywhere near the other storylines. He also probably hasn’t even read those, as he always zooms in on an extremely small amount of time in comic book history to prove his obsessive anti uncle Ben and anti Raimi theories.
@@hartfantom except I just said his new video sucks... Like no way home is my third favorite Spidey movie LOL y'all are just obsessedddd with other people's opinions
@@Courier_333 nah, you choose to call it obsession because someone is dismissing a youtuber who isn’t keen on stating an opinion as opposed to saying what a character is. I could give a shit less which iteration he loves. It’s the space he’s created of people who now go around harassing people who love Tom Holland Spiderman. Can’t call it an obsession off a comment so fickle. You come off like a d slobber who can’t take the fact somebody has a differing opinion.
@@hartfantom yes I'm the one who cant take differing opinions 😂 I think he's an idiot too but y'all are obsesssssed Like are you that insecure about your opinion you have to bring this guy up In a video that has nothing to do with him. I'm convince you don't even have concrete opinions at this point, it's all just what people say in CZcams videos
I love your video essays on Spider-Man. I have question, how do you think Spider-Man: Freshman Year will deal with MCU Spider-Man's origin? Do you think it will be faithful towards Stan Lee's and Steve Ditko's original comic, or will they try to be like how other media presents his origin, or try to go for something different?
I personally hope they go for the Lee Ditko era, absolutely love that run. Of course, there's other runs I love too but I hope they maintain the feel from the first 2 movies
In defense of marvel’s Spider-Man would be cool it’s just three seasons implicitlypretentious supergirl just ended hope u do it soon if anyone can binge it it’s u it takes a few days if u straight binge
This may be a hot take, but I don’t think Uncle Ben matters as much as people think. What’s his character? Kind man who tries teaching his nephew to be better. That’s it. He’s always been a good man who dies, not some big side character. Hell I’d argue that Aunt May is far more important since she’s the one left to raise him. That why her saying the line in No Way Home didn’t bother me, because she’s been in his life longer. Actually I think any character who exemplifies the qualities of a responsible guardian could say the line and it would work, like imagine Steve Rogers filling that role.
Over the years and with manny different spider-man stories uncle ben became more relevant than what he was at the begining, he is literally the man that raised peter and the one that made peter the good man he is, i think he still is really important and he should'nt be replace by other characters
@@hawaianmobster1579 I didn’t think about him becoming more relevant, that’s interesting. I can see why some people don’t want his role diminished, but just think that with so many adaptations doing it that it wouldn’t matter to me if some deviate.
@@TonyQuinn the problem is, if they deviate, then they are ignoring something that at this point is to important for spider-man that its just weird and doesnt feel rigth if it isnt there, so thats why so manny people dont like that they ignore uncle ben so much, its just better to keep him, that way everyones happy, i dont think there really is anyone that really hopes they dont use someone like uncle ben, they dont even have to use him to much, just enough so it doesnt feel like he doesnt exist, spider-man from insomiac did things rigth
@@TonyQuinn as the other guy said- you can’t deviate from something that tied to the character. You’re just going to fuck up the character, horribly. Like the MCU did. You’d have to make a movie with a different spider character at that point. And if you wanna deviate with a different character, cool. But you tubers like implicitly pretentious shouldn’t go around making misinformed, misleading videos trying to justify their love for deviations of a character by bastardizing and twisting the original source material to fit their biased opinion.
You are one of my favorite CZcamsrs and hopefully a writer in real life, because you're so great with words. Have you seen the Netflix show arcane yet? Fingers crossed that you someday do a video on characters like Jinx or Silco :D
Good videos as always surprised you haven’t done a video on *Arcane* over on netflix, considering just how much T R A U M A and tragedy there is in that show
Yeah because it isn’t comic accurate. Peter FOUGHT the fantastic four and Johnny Storm on multiple occasions- and vice versa. Peter and Johnny have fought over girlfriends, one getting more attention than the other etc. the ONLY hero Peter ever looked up to is captain America. And even then there are comic books that explicitly state Peter would never look up to any superhero more than he would aunt May and uncle Ben. The “muh Peter looked up to F4 therefore Tony Stark worship is accurate” argument is a bunch of bullshit.
@@squashmallow2006 he has a MUTUAL respect with them. He’s not a pathetic, obsessive side kick to ANYONE in the comics like how he is with iron man in the movies. Spider-Man has always been fiercely independent. The only reason people like this idiot CZcams say this horseshit is to try and justify any criticism people throw at the MCU for the lack of uncle Ben. He’s poorly misrepresenting these comics in bad faith.
The major reaction difference between Uncle Ben's/ Aunt May's death: Uncle Ben - Oh, poor Peter's going to be so devastated. Aunt May - Oh no, not Aunt May! - Oh, thank God! - Wait, something ain't right. - No! - NO! - HELL NO!!! - WHAT THE FCUK!
My main issues with MCU Spider-Man have just been the fact that they introduced MJ too early for my liking, and the fact that they called her Michelle Jones. To me, naming her that feels like they were afraid of the potential backlash because they didn't cast someone who was the spitting image of comic MJ. So if people didn't like Zendaya's MJ, they could just sweep it under the rug and say "oh that's not Mary Jane Watson, its Michelle Jones." It just feels especially cowardly now after NWH told us that she is MJ Watson. Other than that, I love her, though I wish we got more time of her and Peter bonding to fully get me to believe their romance, but what they have works. My other issue is that Uncle Ben had no gravestone next to Aunt May. That just feels like a real wasted opportunity that could've been the perfect time to show that he existed for all the people screaming about him. I love Tom Holland as Peter/Spider-Man and I really hope they expand on him in the college trilogy that we are gonna get. Personally, I want to see Black Cat, Scorpion, and Kraven the most. Its the perfect time to introduce Kraven and Black Cat as Spider-Man is a bigger presence.
Marvel couldn’t use Mary Jane and that’s why they changed the name, same with using Ned (inspired by Ganke) instead of Harry. So I known it’s weird, but it’s justified.
@@ricardopereira6065 flimsy justification, especially with how they just threw out her last name in NWH. They should’ve committed to her being a separate character and not call her MJ or Michelle Jones-Watson then.
Once again Great video! You definitely show an understanding of the original source material. many people often overlook it/misinterpret it when talking about how “accurate” MCU Spider-Man is. Especially uncle Ben. Although I’m kinda confused on how the MCU has handled him. NWH basically confirmed he doesn’t exist. May isn’t buried along with him. Tom Holland never mentioned him when the other peters were talking about their bens etc (probably cause Disney doesn’t have the rights to include him or something) It makes one think, how did MCU Spider-Man even become spidey in the first place? Btw anyone know where I can read the original ditko and Lee run?
A lot of people missed this, because it was so incredibly subtle. During the scene on the roof we mostly see Spidey-Tom ignoring Spidey-Tobey while trying to reach for the box, until Tobey mentions Ben- he immediately turns around with a saddened expression... Very subtle, but it's there. Anyway, yeah I was really annoyed when we didn't see Ben's grave in the end, but whatever... Edit: I guess we've got to wait until "Freshman Year" for Ben's true reveal.
A joke by my imaginary friend- Tobey&Andrew:" Uncle Ben once said with great power comes great responsibility." Tom:" Who's Uncle Ben?" Tobey&Andrew:" Wait, you don't have Uncle Ben in your world? Aunt May's husband?" Tom:" Oh! You mean Aunt Bethany? She didn't utter that." Tobey & Andrew:" Wait, what?"
NWH spoilers!!!!!! I really didn't see May's death coming but it was more impactful for unlike Ben or tom and Martha or whatever the names of Wanda's parents this is a person who we have seen her impact to peter in the last 5 years
I never knew uncle Ben wasn’t that integral to Peter being Spider-Man. The addition of the “maybe” adds more to the character it also makes me appreciate the Andrew and Tom version of the characters.
He IS integral to Peter being Spider-Man. Please do not buy into this pathetic you tubers bullshit. He only says this shit to “disprove” “toxic Raimi fans” just read the comic book yourself, and you will see.
@@Awesomemusic19 Comics Peter acts pretty different from Raimi Peter, and he only mentioned Uncle Ben in certain moments of reflecting. Comics Peter has a separate goal with being Spider-Man instead of Spider-Man solely because of Uncle Ben and living by "his" mortal code (the code that Peter originally learned himself without being told beforehand in AF #15; which, in my opinion, feel more compelling anyways). Yes, Ben dying was the catalyst for that, but it made Peter want to strive for something greater. Being Spider-Man wasn't a heavy burden he was forced to carry for the rest of his days, being Spider-Man was a way (an outlet) for him to mature, be virtuous; finding his purpose and rediscovering it through trials and tribulations; all while escaping his everyday, mundane life and having a bit of fun along the way.
@@SpFlash1523 this is untrue on almost every single level. The entire reason this video, and your comment exists, is to spite the Raimi films. It feels like a weird psychological complex with you people. Like you’re bitter that those are the most celebrated films, so you go through insane mental gymnastics to convince yourselves that the films are the least like the comics, when in reality, they’re the closest ones to this day. If you’re seriously trying to say Spider-Man does not constantly hamper down on Peter’s civilian life, you’re actually clinically delusional. Or you had a blind fold on while reading most Spider-Man comic books. Peter uses Spider-Man to escape his mundane life at times (which is also shown in the Raimi films those films don’t EXCLUSIVELY show Spider-Man as a burden, you made that up) but it gets in the way of A LOT. It’s a constant source of contention on his marriage to Mary Jane, his social life, his school life. He’s snapped at Jameson multiple times in the comics for turning the city against him. He feels under-appreciated constantly. We’re talking about a character that’s been around since 1962. It ebbs and flows with how much he hates, or likes it, but, overall, it’s pretty consistent that being Spider-Man is overwhelming, and pretty destructive for his civilian life, but at the end of the day, he knows he can’t stop BECAUSE OF UNCLE BEN. Raimi DID NOT invent this.
Hey I know you will never read this but I appreciate you Spider-Man videos without then I probably would of never started reading Stan Lee’s original run
So last day I thought about your channel and thought i havent seen your vids in a while. But couldnt remember channel name. But remembered Leo Dryden and here I am again 😃😃
Aren’t you still simplifying the Raimi movies way too much? Peter Parker isn’t a perfectly good person in those movies, nor is he a dick. He’s more like, you know, a regular kid. He can be friendly and respectful, but he also holds a lot of resentment towards the world, that he merely lets out on the wrestling guy because he was the last in a long list of jerks that abused their power in order to bully him. A general, raw feeling of anger is why Peter lets the thief go in both the comics and the movie; the movie merely gives him a specific target that lets him focus that anger. Then, about later, so about what Ben means for Peter in the other two movies: man, Spider-Man 2 is all about the very same point of your video. About Peter having to stop relying on what he thinks Ben wanted for him (friendly reminder: the one in the car is not Ben, it’s just Peter talking to himself), and actually starting to figure what he wants by himself. That’s why there isn’t a second Ben scene before Spider-Man returns. Because Ben isn’t the point anymore. He left Peter a fundamental piece of wisdom and a tragic warning, but that’s not enough to keep Spidey going forever. Now Peter has to be his own hero, his own “Ben”: he needs to fight his self doubt alone, to find the strength and the motivation within himself. That fits with comic books Peter Parker pretty well, if you ask me.
The similarities between Raimi & Watt ends at a)Spidey; b)action movie. Are they easily comparable? I say no because they have totally different delivering formats- Raimi's is drama with a touch of horror while Watt's is teen/family comedy heavily inspired by John Hughes. As someone growing up with 80s 90s teen/family comedies, Home series resonates strongest with me. They make me smile, make me laugh, and damn make me cry by putting dirt in my eyes in 2nd half of No Way Home. This series triggered me all the good old 80-90s nostalgic memory. Man I love the Spidey drone, it reminds me of Batteries Not Included. The stories are well written with a lot of attention to details and realism. For me the Home Trilogy is the second best Superhero trilogy after Dark Knight.
@@Courier_333 Raimi's especially Spider-man 2 is top grade perfect Wagyu steak no doubt. It is a dish I'll enjoy maybe once a month. Watt's is the kebab I'll like to enjoy daily. I don't know, there's something special with the kebab.
@@chengkuoklee5734 lmaoo I see Spider-Man 2 once a month and it's my favorite- I definitely understand the appeal of mcu Spidey in terms of tone, story, acting characters and stuff
@@Courier_333 imagine trilogy as a banquet. We have appetizer, main courses, in the end ended with dessert. The problem with Raimi's was, the later part of the main course dishes and dessert was underwhelming. It ruined the banquet experience. The Dark Knight has extraordinary dish in middle of the course, and it makes following dishes pale in comparison and this is not good for overall dining experience. However the chef saved the day with a satisfying dessert.
@@chengkuoklee5734 as a trilogy I will 100% the Jon watts trilogy is better. As someone with Spider-Man 2 as his favorite film ever... I hate the third one. My top 3 is 2, 1, and NWH
Everyone thinks Uncle Ben is this all wise benevolent father figure who inspired everything the Peter has become. But in reality, he was actually WORSE than a room full of ALARM CLOCKS!!!
Don’t later comics retroactively inflate Uncle Ben’s influence though? I mean, he literally raised Peter. I get the point of only working Stan Lee’s original work, but the entirety of the comics matters man.
Yeah because this CZcamsr is a hack and doesn’t know wtf he’s on about. He only makes these BS videos to combat any criticism of the MCU films, and to try and “disprove” the Raimi films at every twist and turn.
Not all comics are good, especially today's comics. What is the point of rehashing the specific character beat over and over again from specifically comics, especially when that character beats has been misconstrued, therefore limiting the character's overall package. What is wrong with sticking closely with Lee and Ditko's original style and interpretation for Spider-Man instead of just copying the Raimi films? It is probably why modern day Spider-Man comics suck, because they look at what Peter Parker is and "what he should be" on the surface level, instead of looking at who he has been historically.
@@SpFlash1523 ahhh see this exactly proves my point about this hack ass CZcams and his weirdo minions like you. You so bizarrely resent the Raimi films so much that you literally act like the first two years of Spider-Man’s 62 year existence matters. Unbelievable. Love how you zero in and cherry pick certain moments and make them bigger than they actually are (Johnny storm) and then when people say “well what if we do the same thing and zero in on moments that directly contradict you?” THEN, ALL OF A SUDDEN, it’s a problem. Pathetic lmfao
Genuinely the worst take I've seen on Uncle Ben in a long while. You can clearly see that the only people agreeing with this are those who haven't read the comics themselves. Like bro, you're just straight up lying at this point.
Bro, thank you so much for acknowledging this. It’s so nice to finally see someone else say this. Literally the only possible people who could believe this garbage about uncle Ben or the human torch are people who don’t want to read the comics, and only want to feel right in their opinion. This CZcamsr is doing a horrible disservice to the Spider-Man mythos.
6:59 "Maybe you'll rethink Spider-Man's motives" he says right after saying MCU Spider-Man is faithful well let's read a bit further down that speculation "then maybe I'll stop being haunted by the memory of Uncle Ben" ... Is MCU Peter haunted by the memory of Uncle Ben sure as hell doesn't seem like it, yet again another Iron Boy Jr apologist who's contradictive at heart.
Exactly bro. These are garbage misinterpretations of the early comic books, and they only bring them up to deflect any possibly criticism of MCU Spider-Man, and to fulfill their obsessive anti-Raimi bias.
I never liked the MCU version of Spider-Man as they do not mention uncle Ben at all. I mean not even in conversation. One would think that maybe mentioning the guy in an actual conversation in the MCU by the actual MCU Spider-Man would be nice to see,but no. So I cannot enjoy the MCU version of Spider-Man because of that.
@@Prospective_of_Jay He straight up says he likes the Raimi movies, he’s just pointing out how they’re incredibly inaccurate and at times miss the point of the character for more of a feel-good story. A thing that, if people weren’t so hooked on nostalgia and if people at the time actually read the comics, would’ve been realized sooner before they warped people’s understanding of the character. To oppose HiTop’s famous idea that “MCU Spider-Man has okay movies but bad Spider-Man movies,” my personal opinion is that “Raimi Spidey, excluding 3, has fucking fantastic and enjoyable movies, but they’re not really Spider-Man.”
Imagine saying MCU Spider-Man is good yet saying Raimi Spider-Man inaccurate. It's true that Raimi Spider-Man is inaccurate in many regards but to turn around and say MCU Spider-Man isn't much less accurate is nonsense. Also now here's big also you little dumb dumb - Raimi didn't invent Uncle Ben being Peter's role model, this was done looooong before Raimi took over. The idea that Ben said the responsibility line was first introduced into the comics in 1987's "Spider-Man vs Wolverine"
Everytime I hear one of these other channels or comments saying "No Way Home fixed MCU Spider-Man" I think about you and give my best J Jonah Jameson laugh.
facts
*cough Hitop cough*
@@joshheralal8758 hitops absurdly biased and a hack
@@joshheralal8758 Really want to see these two have a debate regarding their feelings about MCU Peter. It'd be very entertaining.
@@kiara3618 agreed.
God Tom Holland Spider-Man is so underrated. It feels like you are the only one who actually understands what the MCU is doing with him. This is how I would put MCU Spider-Man’s character arc in the trilogy.
When Uncle Ben died Peter became a hero,
When Tony died Peter became independent,
When Aunt May died Peter became a man,
He gained a mature understanding of the world.
Very well said.
absolutely spot on
@@jessicapinkman-xm2eg Jessica, we need to coock
I wouldn’t say underrated maybe under appreciated like Tom has plenty of fans more than probably most interpretations of spider man besides Tobey. I just think he just has more criticism hurled towards him than Tobey or some of the animated versions.
!!NWH SPOILER!!
I think that aunt may's adaptation of The phrase "With great there must also come great responsibility" is more impactful here than when it is said by uncle ben. Uncle ben never saw the side of peter that was spiderman, looking back on it it felt more like advice you'd give a struggling adolescent than a superhero motto. MCU aunt may saw and understood peters lows and his struggles with the responsibilty and I think that makes her saying the iconic phrase a lot more impactful. Not saying its better than uncle ben's but I felt it was more important in NWH than it wouldve been in a flashback to the MCU uncle ben saying it before that spiderman came to be.
In Home series she played the role not only aunt and mother, but also big sister and BFF. She took care of Peter, support him when he's down, giving flirting tips, queer guide for party, etc.
This extra layers makes her demise more meaningful and more impactful. These are some things previous Uncle Ben iteration lack off.
That may be true, but I also thought it hit harder because I didn't expect it.
When you see uncle ben, you know he's going to die. When I first saw amazing spiderman 2, I knew gwen could die because the trailers showed a pretty accurate representation of some elements of her death in the comics.
But May's death felt like it had more impact because it came out of nowhere. The great power line came out of nowhere. We came to the realization of her fate as Peter did, and I feel like that made it hit 10 times harder.
In NWH, it's used to reaffirm Peter’s morality, to make sure he continues to do the right thing.
@@arthand7672 Some jerk intentionally spoiled it on the internet, so I knew Aunt May might die. But I was hoping it would be untrue. Unfortunately It wasn't.
@@chengkuoklee5734 exactly
I’ve…never thought about the difference between having a conscience and feeling guilty before. I always thought they went hand in hand. Once again your brilliant essays have offered me insight into myself I’ve been lacking.
What irritates me the most is when people say Spider-Man and Aunt May were stupid for wanting to help these people.
I'm sorry, but do these fools not know who Spider-Man really is?
These fools pretend to be pragmatic but actually contributed nothing and enjoy mocking & criticize those who really make effort. For me they sound like spiteful gambler being salty for losing bet, hindsightly.
Nah peter was stupid bringing them to the apartment and putting may in danger
Taking them to the apartment was a risky move, but given all stark property had been seized, there probably wasn't anywhere else.
@@marceloturrubiates4362 yes, as stupid as doctors without borders.
@@marceloturrubiates4362 Trying to help wasn't stupid.
Ill only say that the Uncle Ben in Spider-man 2 isn't Ben, its a manifestation of Peter's guilt telling him to keep being Spider-man even though its destroying him
Which is exactly what uncle Ben is in the comic books. Which is why it’s fucking stupid to act like uncle Ben was a “messiah” figure in the Raimi films
Cultural amnesia is so strong that Andrew Spiderman having web shooters pissed me off, I thought Spiderman always had Organic shooters despite watching the animated 90s spiderman having web shooters.
There's probably a lot of misconceptions about Spider-Man that the Raimi movies started. But it's kind of to be expected with whatever the first mainstream version of a franchise is (like people think TMNT is just goofy because of the 80s cartoon despite the original comics and movie having a darker tone)
@@LeopoldLitchenstein
I remember my first time learning about the OG TMNT comics and being shocked how dark it was compared to pretty much every adaptation after it.
@@Wiki1184 I grew up with the 90 movie and the 2003 show which were pretty much based on them entirely, so I wasn't too surprised to hear the comics are pretty gory, but it is really jarring compared to how they're depicted most of the time nowadays
@@LeopoldLitchenstein what are some of these misconceptions? I believe the web shooters thing is a misconception, sure but uncle Ben is adapted directly from the comic books in the Raimi films.
@@Awesomemusic19 Mostly stuff the MCU movies do, like Spider-Man changing outfits so much (he doesn't do it nearly as often in the first 5 Spider-Man movies) or having help from other Marvel heroes, and even how Uncle Ben is portrayed as the one to give the "great power" line. In the comics it was just a thought bubble, but the 2002 movie basically connected it to Ben and most future versions like Spectacular and the 2017 cartoon followed suit. And that's fine honestly, but the way Ben is handled across the trilogy (or at least, in 3) is a bit too heavy handed. It fits fine in 2 because it helps with the arc Peter has in that film, but they didn't need to retcon 1 in order to get Ben involved in the story yet again. I know my opinion doesn't matter as much as others since I've only read a small handful of Spider-Man comics, but I really don't think Ben needs to play a large role in Peter's life past the origin story once Peter has emotionally moved on from him. The equivalent of Ben being forced back into Spider-Man 3's plot would be like if Tony was still part of NWH's main plot, people would hate it and say that MCU Spider-Man is still "Iron Boy Jr."
Just wanted to say this dropped a minute after I walked out of No Way Home for the third time; and this is now the fifth time I’m watching this particular essay. You are so thoughtful and you clearly love Spider-Man for the character he is, not this strange ideal that’s been set by pop culture. I grew up in the 2000’s; but as a kid I got the chance to read most of the Lee/Romita run (with a little bit of Lee/Ditko sprinkled in), mostly thanks to some guy who donated a shit ton of old comics. I found myself genuinely loving the direction of MCU Spider-Man more than any previous iterations, but if you say that on the internet….it’s considered blasphemy. I’m so glad you came along Leo, and proved what makes MCU Spidey so great. Thank you.
Oh, Implicitly Pretentious comment section is truly the place for kindred spirits. I LIKE the MCU Spider-Man take because it captures his core in the pages and his birth, but saying that aloud on the Internet or the real world can usher a loud gasp way too many times than it should!
How you could read any Spider-Man comic run. And then turn around and agree with implicitly pretentious or the MCU is so beyond me.
@@Awesomemusic19 How you could read any Spider-Man comic run. And then turn around and tell people what they should or shouldn't like is so beyond me.
@@hunterlawrence3573 not too bright there, are ya?
I love the Raimi movies too but I did always kinda find it weird how they depicted Peter Parker’s heroism as essentially just pure guilt. I definitely do think NWH handles the heroic ideal better, Peter Parker isn’t Spider-Man because of any one person he’s lost, it’s because it’s who he is at heart and when he loses ppl it’s more of a test, forks in the road that shape him into the person he becomes.
Not true. Guilt played a role in the raimi movies but it wasn’t the only thing nor even essential. In Spider-Man 2 he becomes Spider-Man again because he realizes the value of a hero after Aunt May’s speech. But I do agree that Spider-Man being Spider-Man because he’s a hero at heart is way better than just because of guilt. And I also think MCU Spider-Man displays that nicely!
I disagree, guilt can be seen as the whole reason Peter parker became Spider-Man… he started off as this selfish kid, who get blessed with powers decides to use them for selfish gains and gets big headed and could’ve easily stopped a guy robbing someone , but didn’t because that wasn’t his problem, then that guy goes on to kill uncle Ben… and when he confronts the guy he learns he could’ve stopped the dude and his uncle Ben would’ve been alive… if that’s not guilt then I don’t know what is. And honestly that’s the whole reason why Peter is relatable though , he’s made stupid mistakes in his past and is trying to own up to them, by making a conscious effort to make the right one
Essentially pure guilt?
Uncle Ben's last appearance in the films is Peter Parker saying "no I can't live your dreams"
He only tries to be a hero, even without his powers cuz he sees a family with a missing child in a burning building . He is naturally heroic
@@umbrellaphantom yeah, essentially. I think it's good that heroes have flaws like that, and I don't think enough people understand that. Peter isn't Perfect, and him constantly feeling guilty for something that he did isn't a bad thing. It's a human thing. This was the point of Spider-Man 2. Peter realized that he's being Spider-Man in the least healthy way possible, and learns that he can be both Peter & Spider-Man not just one or the other.
@@Superhero-Motivation for the love of god please read some fucking Spidey comics. What this dude had to say is pure bullshit.
You can't be spoiling us like this. Two amazing Spider-Man essays almost back to back might be too much for us
i like that uncle ben was an actual father figure in tasm. you got to see their relationship before the angst and before ben’s death, and through that understand the growth of peter’s moral compass through him without having to resort to guilt as much as the raimi trilogy did
One of the things Amazing Spidey did better than Raimi is it shows how Uncle Ben lived.
The Home Trilogy did a remarkable job on Aunt May with this. I don't know whether it was by chance or design but it was a blast.
@@chengkuoklee5734 I wouldn't say she was remarkable, she was kinda more of used as a "hot" joke in the first movie and even after finding out Peter's identity she still didn't worry about him much in the second one and was pretty much used as a joke with Happy, the only time we actually saw her address concern for Peter's safety was in the Thai restaurant which was before she knew, it was only NWH that started portraying her seriously and more than just the "cool and hot aunt"
I also liked how he and Peter’s last conversation went and how Peter got mad at him before he died. As much as I loved the Rami films Peter just snapped at Uncle Ben out of nowhere.
@@giovanniluke3882 Homecoming and FFH took her seriously to an extent. Early on in Homecoming, she tries to communicate with Peter when he won't talk to her at dinner. She tells him to run away from a big fight like what happened at the ATMs. A bit later, she drives Peter and Ned to the party and gives them advice on how to act. When Peter comes home from the boat later on in the movie, she's worried and angry. Once he says he lost the Stark internship, she hugs him and acts as a mother would towards an upset son. She even helps Peter out with getting ready for his date and gives him more advice. I was confused as to why she was so supportive of him in FFH, but NWH really justified it with her wanting Peter to always do the right thing. She knew he was growing up and loved the man he was becoming. When she was dying, she could see that Peter was struggling to stick to his moral compass, so she reassured him and helped him grow more as a person because she didn't want him to second-guess his good nature and go down a dark path. That shows why she was so supportive. And on the same note, regarding her telling him to run away from something like that in Homecoming versus her being supportive of him being Spider-Man, it's because he was basically her kid. She still had responsibility to protect him in her eyes. Once she found out he was Spider-Man, she knew that he had started growing into a man like I mentioned before. So, her responsibility over him was no more. That doesn't mean she never worried about him. She hugged him when he came back home in FFH because she knew he was safe. She was worried. They even talked on the phone after the first big fight in FFH. She wasn't panicking, but she was definitely relieved to hear his voice and even changed the topic from Spider-Man stuff to Peter stuff talking about his plan with MJ. And ofc, she was worried when Green Goblin had beaten him to a bloody pulp. I agree that all the jokes can make it hard to see how great of a character she was, but when you read between the lines, she was honestly a great Aunt May. She was just a "Mom" who wanted what's best for her growing-up "son" and tried to always benefit the man who she saw him becoming, even if it worried her. Watching Homecoming and FFH with the benefit of hindsight coming from NWH really helped me see that picture more clearly
@@_the_rizzler Yeah, to an extent, I feel like they probably should have showed it more clearly especially in FFH, also I did mention her worrying for him in the Thai restaurant so no need to remind me of that, but I do agree on the rest of your points in Homecoming, I admit I missed that, but they still missed the mark in FFH, your point is that she doesn't worry about him because of what she told him in NWH, but that was like a year (I think) since she found out, so she's had time to let Peter being Spider-Man sink in, no doubt she was almost losing her mind about his secret identity at first, but they had the timeskip between Homecoming and FFH so they skipped over her being terrifed of Peter being Spider-Man, and they missed an opportunity when Jon Watts retconned the original intention of having May survive the snap, it could have created an interesting story of May being relieved to have Peter back of losing him and living alone for FIVE YEARS, and trying to hide her concerns with him going on the school trip far from home
When I think about my first memories of Spiderman, the 90s cartoon comes to mind where he is constantly in his own head questioning everything. That struck a chord with me as a kid, and more so now that I actually have responsibility.
🙌🏾 great video as always
I'm more of a 90s Spidey cartoon fan than live action. I felt Home series vibe closer to the cartoon Peter than Raimi's. Well, that's my personal opinion.
I gotta leave the now classic comment of: HITOP FILMS WANTS TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION. Loved the video! This week I was just thinking how FFH is all about self doubt, and then you released this. Awesome content.
Hitop is a narcissist little kid...why some people take him seriously is beyond me..
@@diannajennings266 I mean I don’t agree with HITOP films points a lot but he doesn’t read as a narcissistic person. Then aging I haven’t meet a lot of narcissist people
@@diannajennings266 did this guy murder all your families or something?
I hated his new video but it's a movie damnnn
@@diannajennings266 Spider man means something different to him, his opinion does not mean anything. it does not change what movies come out, you already have a MCU Spiderman show in the works and No Way Home is selling millions.
This is something that hitop films will never truly understand about Spider-Man. Great video essay though!
Why do you care about his opinion enough to comment that lol- I disagree with him too but like damn
Im bias, but i don't want to be a peter parker who can't decide if attention or being a good person is more important, i can see that all the time just looking at all the people trying to harass others for positive attention. To me peter parker is a person cursed with the power to prevent others suffering yet at the expense of his own well-being. he goes though hell to so no one has to suffer like him, as someone who's personally dealt with being gr----ed and wishes to had done more to prevent my gr----er from hurting others, that is who i wish to be to my best ability. That version of parker might not be accurate but it means more to me.
@@Courier_333 Hmm... If I could hazard a guess, it's because HiTop's take basically became the rally point for those who didn't understand comicbook +/ MCU Spidey, which is then used to bash those who like the latter? I mean, if you argue for MCU Spidey, sooner or later you'll get slapped with a link to HiTop's video. They are kinda the face of that side of the argument, and gained a large steam and voices. Thus, it's kinda normal for people like us to feel kinda miffed about that movement and points at them as the representative of the movement.
@@lyndiss.2017 "Didn't understand comic book" - yes you are objectively right about the character...
I disagree with him but you're giving this kid sooooo much power lmao-
This is like star wars sequels levels of being mad at others opinions.
Idk there are toxic people who dislike MCU Spidey but there are toxic people in every fandom...
@@Courier_333 I didn't give dude any power. Others, who flocked to them, did. How I feel about them isn't relevant to how influential they are.
"You're giving them power by giving them attention in your mind"--that sort of self-improvement, "Dr." Oz-level vacuous quote doesn't work when it's simply an objective thing that HiTop doesn't understand comicbook Spidey, bashes MCU Spidey over it, and serves as a clarion horn for those with similar mindset where they build up their momentum and steam. Hating MCU Spidey became "cool" more or less after HiTop started his "Far From Home broke me" video. *Again, OP ain't wrong.*
But sure. The world is totally manipulated by your mind. Someone is powerful because I assign them power, never mind the objective fact about them. I mean, if that helps _you,_ /shrugs
The outro song is so goddamn iconic at this point. It's a banger
czcams.com/video/FkZ6SVbrlp8/video.html
I agree!!
There are three laws of Spider-Man
- He thwips
- He sticks
- Implicitly Pretentious knows him like the back of his own hand
this is the first truest statement of 2022 to me, here's a badge of recognition
Somebody who thinks the human torch was Spider-Man’s “role model” and played a bigger role to him than uncle Ben does not understand Spider-Man like the back of his hand, and is clearly misrepresenting these comics in bad faith for an ulterior motive, rather than to have a meaningful, low-level-bias analysis.
@@Awesomemusic19 Huh? Dude Peter barely even thinks about Uncle Ben in the comics how tf was Uncle Ben more of a role model than the Human Torch, the first person who was his true reference point?
@@Awesomemusic19 You seem to have some deeply rooted issues with being honest. Please seek help.
@@sarcasticsuperjerk18 the human torch is not his true reference point LMAO that is fucking ridiculous. They are literally like best friends- he’s not a mentor for him wtf is this shit that you all eat up 😂😂😂
Man, I just wanna say thank you so much for these essays. I’ve always loved Spider-Man but never actually read the original issues, but you’re videos have encouraged me to and it’s been such a fun ride falling in love with a character who’s so much more in depth then I understood before, that I can’t stop talking to those around me about it.
I love your takes on Tom Hollands Peter, you articulate so well why I like him the most from the three live action Spider Man's :)
Edit: Oh and your background music selection is 10/10
I'm five hours into writing insert chapters for this bloody novel and just as I say "let's take a break," I look at CZcams and find a new IP video. Cheers. This has quickly become the kind of channel I instantly click on when I see new stuff come out.
I hope that in 20 years people start rewatching and appreciating tom's two trilogies because of nostalgia. He'll finally get the justice he deserves.
“It’s the only fitting memorial for who you were..my father, teacher, friend! For whatever I am - - whatever I’ve become - - whatever good I’ve done with the powers fate gave me, the best of me came from you, Uncle Ben” - The Amazing Spider-Man #181
The raimi films didn’t invent “Messiah Uncle Ben” he was treated as a role model and father figure countless times in the comics’ 40 years worth of history long before Raimi’s first Spider-Man film released, and yes, he did canonically say the great power line (The Spider-Man Versus Wolverine storyline confirmed it) a lot of writers have expanded on the mythos in ways that go in tandem with Lee/Ditko’s run
@Erik Kemeey
1. I mention this because his videos give off the notion that this “messiah uncle ben” is purely a product of the raimi movies
2. Whenever mentions of Ben’s importance are brought up in Lee’s original run, Implicitly briefly goes over it and then completely dismisses it. Peter literally calls Aunt May and uncle Ben the only family he’s ever had in that run (they filled that mother/father role for him) so yes, he was always a father figure
3. Stan became editorial director and publisher of Marvel during Conway’s run all the way up to the 90s, so if you’re going to argue that only the first 100 issues are the “True Spider-Man” because Stan wrote them, just remember that Stan had heavy involvement with the comics long after the first 110 issues (his job was to literally plan, coordinate and revise the comics)
@Erik Kemeey Then why use a scene of Peter calling Ben his father in the Raimi trilogy as an example of them getting it wrong when there’s a lot of lines very similar to this in the comics? And again, Ben was portrayed as a wise and good hearted man who taught Peter important moral values/principles long before the Raimi trilogy and while Stan was still involved with the comics up til the 90s, even Spider-Man The Animated Series portrays him this way and has him saying the great power line.
Heck, before the raimi trilogy came out they released an annual about how Peter’s true heroes are people like Aunt May and uncle Ben opposed to the heroes he reads about in comics and newspapers, which is why the whole “Peter’s true role model was The Human Torch” is bullshit (Peter literally tries to steal his girlfriend and they get in each other’s way quite a lot lmao)
@@toxin4609 Yeah from my understanding Peter was jealous of human torch, not lookin up to him.
I love all of your Spider-Man videos; it's gotten me to think even deeper on my favorite hero, and bought the Masterworks of the Lee-Ditko run to read through for myself.
I have never read Stan's hundred issue run all I know is aspects of the stories.... but damn, I love how the comics explore so many dimensions of Peter and isn't scared to treat him less than ideal. Compared to say the raimi or the holland trilogy...
I would really love, to see more of that psychology explored than just make the same old commentary about responsibility over and over again.
Yes! Captain Trauma and his PTSD analysis!
Dope analysis. I like how you really examine the quotes and panels in a way not many other You Tubers do. I actually wish you could use and compare the Ultimate Spider-Man run to both the classic Stan Lee/Steve Ditko run and each movie counterpart as well! Keep up the good work!
We are SO spoiled to live in a time where get all this great Spiderman content both on the big screen and here on CZcams!!!
This video is poison for anyone who has actually read the comic lmao
@@Awesomemusic19 I'm so glad then that I am not a comic book nerd
@@jcarm185 as you watch a video going over comic books….
@@Awesomemusic19 (head scratching) I am watching a video about an MCU movie...
@@jcarm185 *head scratching* a video that is about how the MCU is perfectly comic accurate…
I like the fact that the death of uncle ben in the other movies is caused because he took the bad decision, but in this world he lost his aunt because he took the right one... there's more weight
That’s not true, he made like 5 wrong decisions before the right one.
I heard it said once that Ben died because Peter was selfish but May died because Peter was selfless
Man this just makes me hype for into the spiderverse 2 i wonder what the theme will be for that movie
Hard to believe Watt and the writers successfully pulled off with John Hughes style teen comedies(for 2/3) theme.
Wonder who's going to direct next trilogy, and under what theme.
Peter is always portrayed as a boy with a good heart that gets corrupted by power then saved by uncle Ben.
Just for once I would like a Spider-Man story where Peter starts off like a jerk and has to unlearn that behavior as Spidey. But as a slow process, not something that gets rectified by Uncle Ben's death (though that motivates his desire to be better)
Andrew Garfield....
@Erik Kemeey We need to give credit to Amazing Spidey for showing how Uncle Ben lived. It makes us engaged with this character.
@@danielhart7435 Amazing series has too much flaw outweighs its feature. This is a dish overused of spice and salt.
Problem is if they did that it might turn off a lot of people who don't want to wait for him to start acting like the Peter they recognize
I hope we get that in Freshman Year
OMG... I am literally blown away by this absolutely beautiful analysis. This is so well executed and it shows that you have such a deep understanding of the character. I can only appreciate these films more after watching this amazing content. Marvel/Sony needs you in the writing room a.s.a.p. Would love to see you do a TED Talk on the importance of preserving these comics, their cultural influence and why they've remained so impactful across generations. Again, just wonderful content.
I thought of an idea for a potential future video: A discussion about James Cameron's canceled Spider-Man movie and see how his version compares to other adaptations.
Thank you for clarifying the dissonance between the original spider-man and the raimi version. It's what has bugged me since i was a kid watching the films. I love raimi as a director but that series was wholly different than what we know of the comics.
They absolutely are not different from the comics
I love how the beep on the f-bombs are just short enough so we can actually here the entire word 😂
I'm just glad this channel exists. Thank you.
This channel is a disgrace for the good name of Spider-Man
Great analysis as always! Really touching on the deep themes that can easily be glossed over. Looking forward to more content in 2022!
I feel like I've got a Devil/Angel on the shoulder between Alex and Leo. I think we definitely need a conversation between these two to happen
I couldnt agree more. That's *exactly* what it feels like.
Who the hell is Alex?
@@nope5657 Hitop. Dislikes any live-action Spider-Man movie that isn't Raimi. Gave NWH a 5/10 but said Venom 2 was good.
@@joshheralal8758 that's cause he's a hack
@@joshheralal8758 venom 2 was good but he is wrong about NWH
He sounds toxic
Nice song of the day choice. It comes from my favorite show of all time! Also great video again! I really learn a lot about Spider-Man in these videos.
Thanks for the ride this year, lots of great analysis and insight on Spiderman + his original comics run. I felt your series of vids really added a lot to the experience for my first watch of No Way Home. Happy new year!
He brought the receipts
I was waiting for this like fcking vulture looking at a dying creature taking their last breath. Damn your videos are amazing!
The movie just made me realize to me at the time that I don’t think Uncle Ben exist in the MCU at all since even when they brought him up MCU Peter didn’t even consider saying anything about him even something like “Yeah mine died too” or “He left a long time ago” I was just hoping he’d just mention his name
Uncle Ben has subtle references in multiple movies, some open to interpretation and the one direct one with the suitcase in FFH, but they directly referenced Uncle Ben in the What If Marvel Zombies episode which would canonize him. They also have the MCU animated prequel Spider-Man series which is very likely to have Uncle Ben in that also. I would’ve also liked for them to directly mention him in NWH also though, an obvious opportunity missed.
@@YungLanxx definitely an opportunity missed when their flat out saying him by name in conversation ya know
Peter literally says "yeah I know" when aunt may says with great power comes great responsiblity
@@YungLanxx At the very end, they could've just shown May and Ben's graves side by side.
I loved the movie and especially the ending but damn missed opportunity
@@Courier_333 oh yeah I forgot about that, especially that. That they should’ve done at least. I really don’t understand who’s creative decision it is to omit Ben as much as possible but I personally think it’s the wrong decision
He was the best Spider-Man from his civil war debut.
I watch your videos quite a lot and have learned more about Spider-man than I've ever known, but after this video I kind of get why Peter can't lift (or use, rather) Mjolnir. I can't quite put it into words but people attribute it to his decision to not kill but I think its about his internal motives or that specific conflict of looking for redemption. If he'd accept or overcome this conflict then he'd be "worthy" or maybe (for lack of sounding pretentious) worthy of himself.
Do not use this video as a tool to learn anything about Spider-Man. It’s completely wrong and misrepresents These comic books in horribly bad faith. Just read the comics yourself.
I haven't watched Spider-Man 2 in a couple years, and since then I've always thought that Peter himself seems almost like a bit of a flat character. It feels like, if he wasn't Spider-Man, he would be this perfect guy who did everything right, and that isn't a human character at all. Even though when I first read it I thought it was strange that Peter stopped helping the police and could have let a criminal go, it shows he is human. This issue was ASM #1, and after being blamed for doing all these crimes, and then when he gets tackled by the police, thinking he is again the chameleon, he runs off crying, saying "I just wanted to help, but when I do it always gets rejected" or something like that. In this way I think Spider-Man 3 does a better job with development, as Peter has ego and pride before the black suit comes, showing he's human.
"if he wasn't Spiderman, he would be this perfect guy"
Peter Parker stops being Spider-Man in THAT VERY MOVIE- his life does not go perfect, there's literally a montage of him being a dork and tripping a bunch of times- he tries to pressure MJ to leave her fiance just cuz he came to see her show- then gets rejected again because he's selfish HES NOT PERFECT
@@Courier_333 fair enough, but I'm not talking about his life. I'm talking about if he WASN'T spider-man, he would've got MJ. Still a great movie though.
@@Courier_333 True, but throughout the montage it does show his life getting better and then, after being rejected by MJ at first, at the diner MJ was about to give in to Peter (granted in worldly commentary it was through manipulation) but that was after he had decided to be Spider-Man again so he rejects her. Therefore, in a sense, the movie does say he would have what he wanted if he wasn’t Spider-Man, but despite that I agree with your other points and it is still a great movie
Spider-Man 2 is about Peter Parker realizing WHY he's Spider-Man, and it's not uncle Ben, it's himself.
He literally tells uncle Ben "I can't keep living your dreams" and that's the last time he's mentioned in the movie
Peter Parker literally loses his powers from SELF DOUBT and despite that saves a little girl in a burning building- with no powers.
The entire movie is him getting shit on by seemingly everyone, even if that's not necessarily true. And it's clear in his head he does blame being Spider-Man on uncle ben- that the responsibility is too much to bare.
But when he becomes Spider-Man again, it's not because of uncle Ben at all- it's because the world needs Spider-Man- it's a responsibility.
And the climax Peter's arch is the train scene where he finally gets the love and understanding and care that Spider-Man has needed. To understand why he is who he is and why it's worth it. Being Spider-Man IS definitely a sacrifice but it's not out of all out of guilt
That's at least my opinion, as someone whose favorite movie of all time is Spider-Man 2- I don't think uncle Ben is more important than Peter's own drive
Same Ben is meant to show how others suffer to due to his focus on benefiting himself.
Excellent Video Essay, as always. Spider-Man: No Way Home was PERFECT, still bawling over it, so mind-blowing. I have a request for you, Implicitly Pretentious. Can you do a Video Essay dissecting Spider-Man And Black Cat's Relationship throughout the years and decades.
lol seeing how horribly bad implicitly pretentious botched the early comic books, idk why you’d want him anywhere near the other storylines. He also probably hasn’t even read those, as he always zooms in on an extremely small amount of time in comic book history to prove his obsessive anti uncle Ben and anti Raimi theories.
Tell that to HiTop Jesus and his D riders, I mean Disciples.
OOPS!!!! Did I crack some toes?
His new video sucks but you guys are obsessedddd with this man what did he do to you 😂
@@Courier_333 uh oh, looks like I ruffled a panzies panties by dissing his Jesus HiTop films. You gonna cry? 🥺💉
@@hartfantom except I just said his new video sucks...
Like no way home is my third favorite Spidey movie LOL y'all are just obsessedddd with other people's opinions
@@Courier_333 nah, you choose to call it obsession because someone is dismissing a youtuber who isn’t keen on stating an opinion as opposed to saying what a character is. I could give a shit less which iteration he loves. It’s the space he’s created of people who now go around harassing people who love Tom Holland Spiderman. Can’t call it an obsession off a comment so fickle. You come off like a d slobber who can’t take the fact somebody has a differing opinion.
@@hartfantom yes I'm the one who cant take differing opinions 😂 I think he's an idiot too but y'all are obsesssssed
Like are you that insecure about your opinion you have to bring this guy up In a video that has nothing to do with him.
I'm convince you don't even have concrete opinions at this point, it's all just what people say in CZcams videos
I love your video essays on Spider-Man. I have question, how do you think Spider-Man: Freshman Year will deal with MCU Spider-Man's origin? Do you think it will be faithful towards Stan Lee's and Steve Ditko's original comic, or will they try to be like how other media presents his origin, or try to go for something different?
I personally hope they go for the Lee Ditko era, absolutely love that run. Of course, there's other runs I love too but I hope they maintain the feel from the first 2 movies
this is perfection
3:20 Doesn't this also lie at the heart of the DareDevil show? That Matt doesn't know if he is fighting crime out of justice or lust.
In defense of marvel’s Spider-Man would be cool it’s just three seasons
implicitlypretentious supergirl just ended hope u do it soon if anyone can binge it it’s u it takes a few days if u straight binge
This may be a hot take, but I don’t think Uncle Ben matters as much as people think.
What’s his character? Kind man who tries teaching his nephew to be better. That’s it. He’s always been a good man who dies, not some big side character. Hell I’d argue that Aunt May is far more important since she’s the one left to raise him. That why her saying the line in No Way Home didn’t bother me, because she’s been in his life longer.
Actually I think any character who exemplifies the qualities of a responsible guardian could say the line and it would work, like imagine Steve Rogers filling that role.
Over the years and with manny different spider-man stories uncle ben became more relevant than what he was at the begining, he is literally the man that raised peter and the one that made peter the good man he is, i think he still is really important and he should'nt be replace by other characters
@@hawaianmobster1579 I didn’t think about him becoming more relevant, that’s interesting. I can see why some people don’t want his role diminished, but just think that with so many adaptations doing it that it wouldn’t matter to me if some deviate.
@@TonyQuinn the problem is, if they deviate, then they are ignoring something that at this point is to important for spider-man that its just weird and doesnt feel rigth if it isnt there, so thats why so manny people dont like that they ignore uncle ben so much, its just better to keep him, that way everyones happy, i dont think there really is anyone that really hopes they dont use someone like uncle ben, they dont even have to use him to much, just enough so it doesnt feel like he doesnt exist, spider-man from insomiac did things rigth
@@TonyQuinn as the other guy said- you can’t deviate from something that tied to the character. You’re just going to fuck up the character, horribly. Like the MCU did. You’d have to make a movie with a different spider character at that point.
And if you wanna deviate with a different character, cool. But you tubers like implicitly pretentious shouldn’t go around making misinformed, misleading videos trying to justify their love for deviations of a character by bastardizing and twisting the original source material to fit their biased opinion.
You are one of my favorite CZcamsrs and hopefully a writer in real life, because you're so great with words. Have you seen the Netflix show arcane yet? Fingers crossed that you someday do a video on characters like Jinx or Silco :D
Good videos as always
surprised you haven’t done a video on *Arcane* over on netflix, considering just how much T R A U M A and tragedy there is in that show
2:23 And they say him looking up to Tony Stark as a desperate role model isn't comic-accurate. Psht.
Yeah because it isn’t comic accurate. Peter FOUGHT the fantastic four and Johnny Storm on multiple occasions- and vice versa. Peter and Johnny have fought over girlfriends, one getting more attention than the other etc. the ONLY hero Peter ever looked up to is captain America.
And even then there are comic books that explicitly state Peter would never look up to any superhero more than he would aunt May and uncle Ben.
The “muh Peter looked up to F4 therefore Tony Stark worship is accurate” argument is a bunch of bullshit.
@@Awesomemusic19 The guy still admires geniuses in general. Connors, Octavius, Osborn, Richards.
@@squashmallow2006 he has a MUTUAL respect with them. He’s not a pathetic, obsessive side kick to ANYONE in the comics like how he is with iron man in the movies. Spider-Man has always been fiercely independent. The only reason people like this idiot CZcams say this horseshit is to try and justify any criticism people throw at the MCU for the lack of uncle Ben. He’s poorly misrepresenting these comics in bad faith.
The major reaction difference between Uncle Ben's/ Aunt May's death:
Uncle Ben
- Oh, poor Peter's going to be so devastated.
Aunt May
- Oh no, not Aunt May!
- Oh, thank God!
- Wait, something ain't right.
- No!
- NO!
- HELL NO!!!
- WHAT THE FCUK!
the quality in these videos are IMMENSE
My main issues with MCU Spider-Man have just been the fact that they introduced MJ too early for my liking, and the fact that they called her Michelle Jones. To me, naming her that feels like they were afraid of the potential backlash because they didn't cast someone who was the spitting image of comic MJ. So if people didn't like Zendaya's MJ, they could just sweep it under the rug and say "oh that's not Mary Jane Watson, its Michelle Jones." It just feels especially cowardly now after NWH told us that she is MJ Watson. Other than that, I love her, though I wish we got more time of her and Peter bonding to fully get me to believe their romance, but what they have works. My other issue is that Uncle Ben had no gravestone next to Aunt May. That just feels like a real wasted opportunity that could've been the perfect time to show that he existed for all the people screaming about him.
I love Tom Holland as Peter/Spider-Man and I really hope they expand on him in the college trilogy that we are gonna get. Personally, I want to see Black Cat, Scorpion, and Kraven the most. Its the perfect time to introduce Kraven and Black Cat as Spider-Man is a bigger presence.
Marvel couldn’t use Mary Jane and that’s why they changed the name, same with using Ned (inspired by Ganke) instead of Harry. So I known it’s weird, but it’s justified.
@@ricardopereira6065 flimsy justification, especially with how they just threw out her last name in NWH. They should’ve committed to her being a separate character and not call her MJ or Michelle Jones-Watson then.
I honestly smile every time I get a notification that says you uploaded about Spider-Man, please never stop!!!
Once again Great video!
You definitely show an understanding of the original source material. many people often overlook it/misinterpret it when talking about how “accurate” MCU Spider-Man is. Especially uncle Ben. Although I’m kinda confused on how the MCU has handled him. NWH basically confirmed he doesn’t exist. May isn’t buried along with him. Tom Holland never mentioned him when the other peters were talking about their bens etc (probably cause Disney doesn’t have the rights to include him or something)
It makes one think, how did MCU Spider-Man even become spidey in the first place?
Btw anyone know where I can read the original ditko and Lee run?
The Mighty Marvel Masterworks are a good place to start.
A lot of people missed this, because it was so incredibly subtle.
During the scene on the roof we mostly see Spidey-Tom ignoring Spidey-Tobey while trying to reach for the box, until Tobey mentions Ben- he immediately turns around with a saddened expression... Very subtle, but it's there.
Anyway, yeah I was really annoyed when we didn't see Ben's grave in the end, but whatever...
Edit: I guess we've got to wait until "Freshman Year" for Ben's true reveal.
A joke by my imaginary friend-
Tobey&Andrew:" Uncle Ben once said with great power comes great responsibility."
Tom:" Who's Uncle Ben?"
Tobey&Andrew:" Wait, you don't have Uncle Ben in your world? Aunt May's husband?"
Tom:" Oh! You mean Aunt Bethany? She didn't utter that."
Tobey & Andrew:" Wait, what?"
@@abraham7018 Blame Avi Arad. MCU Spidey would be better off from his control.
NWH spoilers!!!!!!
I really didn't see May's death coming but it was more impactful for unlike Ben or tom and Martha or whatever the names of Wanda's parents this is a person who we have seen her impact to peter in the last 5 years
I never knew uncle Ben wasn’t that integral to Peter being Spider-Man. The addition of the “maybe” adds more to the character it also makes me appreciate the Andrew and Tom version of the characters.
He IS integral to Peter being Spider-Man. Please do not buy into this pathetic you tubers bullshit. He only says this shit to “disprove” “toxic Raimi fans” just read the comic book yourself, and you will see.
@@Awesomemusic19 Comics Peter acts pretty different from Raimi Peter, and he only mentioned Uncle Ben in certain moments of reflecting. Comics Peter has a separate goal with being Spider-Man instead of Spider-Man solely because of Uncle Ben and living by "his" mortal code (the code that Peter originally learned himself without being told beforehand in AF #15; which, in my opinion, feel more compelling anyways). Yes, Ben dying was the catalyst for that, but it made Peter want to strive for something greater. Being Spider-Man wasn't a heavy burden he was forced to carry for the rest of his days, being Spider-Man was a way (an outlet) for him to mature, be virtuous; finding his purpose and rediscovering it through trials and tribulations; all while escaping his everyday, mundane life and having a bit of fun along the way.
@@SpFlash1523 this is untrue on almost every single level. The entire reason this video, and your comment exists, is to spite the Raimi films. It feels like a weird psychological complex with you people. Like you’re bitter that those are the most celebrated films, so you go through insane mental gymnastics to convince yourselves that the films are the least like the comics, when in reality, they’re the closest ones to this day. If you’re seriously trying to say Spider-Man does not constantly hamper down on Peter’s civilian life, you’re actually clinically delusional. Or you had a blind fold on while reading most Spider-Man comic books. Peter uses Spider-Man to escape his mundane life at times (which is also shown in the Raimi films those films don’t EXCLUSIVELY show Spider-Man as a burden, you made that up) but it gets in the way of A LOT. It’s a constant source of contention on his marriage to Mary Jane, his social life, his school life. He’s snapped at Jameson multiple times in the comics for turning the city against him. He feels under-appreciated constantly. We’re talking about a character that’s been around since 1962. It ebbs and flows with how much he hates, or likes it, but, overall, it’s pretty consistent that being Spider-Man is overwhelming, and pretty destructive for his civilian life, but at the end of the day, he knows he can’t stop BECAUSE OF UNCLE BEN. Raimi DID NOT invent this.
Oh man I'm early, this should be good.
Another really good and well made video, keep up the good work friend
Hey I know you will never read this but I appreciate you Spider-Man videos without then I probably would of never started reading Stan Lee’s original run
Happy new year! This is my 2022 starter video, and I'm happy this is it!
Wow, you were really quick on this one.
Wow these videos have been spectacular. Thank you!
Love your Spider-Man video essays a lot man, keep it up
Is it too bad to look at the early ultimate run? I get the necessity to stay true to the original birth but cross referencing isn’t a bad thing
I really want to see a debate between you and Alex from the channel HiTop Films.
So last day I thought about your channel and thought i havent seen your vids in a while. But couldnt remember channel name. But remembered Leo Dryden and here I am again 😃😃
This really reminds me of Like Stories of Old’s video on spider man 3
Thank you for this!
We love you, Leo
Only a niche portion of non comic book reading Spider-Man fans love this pathetic clownz
Spider-man
AW YEAH I BE WAITIN FOR THIS ONE
Instead of comparing them to comic spiderman, you ever try comparing them to spiderman TAS?
love your videos man, made me attempt a go at it and do one on my own actually lol
Spiderman is a menace.
Wondering if you could make a video on your thoughts on the IGN audience poll for the best Top 10 Spider-Men in media
The human torch was hardly a role model- it was one issue and his speech inspired him....
Aren’t you still simplifying the Raimi movies way too much? Peter Parker isn’t a perfectly good person in those movies, nor is he a dick. He’s more like, you know, a regular kid. He can be friendly and respectful, but he also holds a lot of resentment towards the world, that he merely lets out on the wrestling guy because he was the last in a long list of jerks that abused their power in order to bully him. A general, raw feeling of anger is why Peter lets the thief go in both the comics and the movie; the movie merely gives him a specific target that lets him focus that anger.
Then, about later, so about what Ben means for Peter in the other two movies: man, Spider-Man 2 is all about the very same point of your video. About Peter having to stop relying on what he thinks Ben wanted for him (friendly reminder: the one in the car is not Ben, it’s just Peter talking to himself), and actually starting to figure what he wants by himself. That’s why there isn’t a second Ben scene before Spider-Man returns. Because Ben isn’t the point anymore. He left Peter a fundamental piece of wisdom and a tragic warning, but that’s not enough to keep Spidey going forever. Now Peter has to be his own hero, his own “Ben”: he needs to fight his self doubt alone, to find the strength and the motivation within himself. That fits with comic books Peter Parker pretty well, if you ask me.
Yes and he’s doing it on purpose
I have no clue who you are but there's a 97% chance you're an evangelion enjoyer
The similarities between Raimi & Watt ends at a)Spidey; b)action movie. Are they easily comparable? I say no because they have totally different delivering formats- Raimi's is drama with a touch of horror while Watt's is teen/family comedy heavily inspired by John Hughes.
As someone growing up with 80s 90s teen/family comedies, Home series resonates strongest with me. They make me smile, make me laugh, and damn make me cry by putting dirt in my eyes in 2nd half of No Way Home. This series triggered me all the good old 80-90s nostalgic memory. Man I love the Spidey drone, it reminds me of Batteries Not Included.
The stories are well written with a lot of attention to details and realism. For me the Home Trilogy is the second best Superhero trilogy after Dark Knight.
But......
. You have to admit the Raimi movies are directed better-
Homecoming looks like a Judd appatow movie
@@Courier_333 Raimi's especially Spider-man 2 is top grade perfect Wagyu steak no doubt. It is a dish I'll enjoy maybe once a month. Watt's is the kebab I'll like to enjoy daily. I don't know, there's something special with the kebab.
@@chengkuoklee5734 lmaoo I see Spider-Man 2 once a month and it's my favorite-
I definitely understand the appeal of mcu Spidey in terms of tone, story, acting characters and stuff
@@Courier_333 imagine trilogy as a banquet. We have appetizer, main courses, in the end ended with dessert.
The problem with Raimi's was, the later part of the main course dishes and dessert was underwhelming. It ruined the banquet experience.
The Dark Knight has extraordinary dish in middle of the course, and it makes following dishes pale in comparison and this is not good for overall dining experience. However the chef saved the day with a satisfying dessert.
@@chengkuoklee5734 as a trilogy I will 100% the Jon watts trilogy is better. As someone with Spider-Man 2 as his favorite film ever... I hate the third one.
My top 3 is 2, 1, and NWH
5:06 does anyone know the name of this song?
Could you do some videos on the rocketeer (both the movie and the Disney junior show. You might be surprised. Plus both are suprisingly good.)
HELLO THERE HOW HAVE YOU BEEN HOPE UR DAY HAS BEEN GOOD M8
what's the credit song
Everyone thinks Uncle Ben is this all wise benevolent father figure who inspired everything the Peter has become. But in reality, he was actually WORSE than a room full of ALARM CLOCKS!!!
Don’t later comics retroactively inflate Uncle Ben’s influence though? I mean, he literally raised Peter. I get the point of only working Stan Lee’s original work, but the entirety of the comics matters man.
Yeah because this CZcamsr is a hack and doesn’t know wtf he’s on about. He only makes these BS videos to combat any criticism of the MCU films, and to try and “disprove” the Raimi films at every twist and turn.
Not all comics are good, especially today's comics. What is the point of rehashing the specific character beat over and over again from specifically comics, especially when that character beats has been misconstrued, therefore limiting the character's overall package. What is wrong with sticking closely with Lee and Ditko's original style and interpretation for Spider-Man instead of just copying the Raimi films? It is probably why modern day Spider-Man comics suck, because they look at what Peter Parker is and "what he should be" on the surface level, instead of looking at who he has been historically.
@@SpFlash1523 ahhh see this exactly proves my point about this hack ass CZcams and his weirdo minions like you. You so bizarrely resent the Raimi films so much that you literally act like the first two years of Spider-Man’s 62 year existence matters. Unbelievable. Love how you zero in and cherry pick certain moments and make them bigger than they actually are (Johnny storm) and then when people say “well what if we do the same thing and zero in on moments that directly contradict you?” THEN, ALL OF A SUDDEN, it’s a problem. Pathetic lmfao
NOW there will be trauma. :)
Someone say Spider-Man?
What’s the song at the end of the video?
Genuinely the worst take I've seen on Uncle Ben in a long while.
You can clearly see that the only people agreeing with this are those who haven't read the comics themselves.
Like bro, you're just straight up lying at this point.
@Erik Kemeey No, I've just actually read them, whole the video maker absolutely hasn't read anything past Lee and Ditko.
hey i read the comics, what gives
Bro, thank you so much for acknowledging this. It’s so nice to finally see someone else say this. Literally the only possible people who could believe this garbage about uncle Ben or the human torch are people who don’t want to read the comics, and only want to feel right in their opinion.
This CZcamsr is doing a horrible disservice to the Spider-Man mythos.
I'm not gay
u sure
@@mangomicrowave6565 yep
Copium
I am 😈
Thanks for sharing
6:59
"Maybe you'll rethink Spider-Man's motives" he says right after saying MCU Spider-Man is faithful well let's read a bit further down that speculation "then maybe I'll stop being haunted by the memory of Uncle Ben" ... Is MCU Peter haunted by the memory of Uncle Ben sure as hell doesn't seem like it, yet again another Iron Boy Jr apologist who's contradictive at heart.
Exactly bro. These are garbage misinterpretations of the early comic books, and they only bring them up to deflect any possibly criticism of MCU Spider-Man, and to fulfill their obsessive anti-Raimi bias.
@@Awesomemusic19 damn straight
I never liked the MCU version of Spider-Man as they do not mention uncle Ben at all. I mean not even in conversation. One would think that maybe mentioning the guy in an actual conversation in the MCU by the actual MCU Spider-Man would be nice to see,but no. So I cannot enjoy the MCU version of Spider-Man because of that.
Are you being sarcastic?
Bro… we get it. You don’t like Raimi’s version.
I suggest to watch his other video essays to get more context.
@@chengkuoklee5734 I’ve seen every one
@@Prospective_of_Jay He straight up says he likes the Raimi movies, he’s just pointing out how they’re incredibly inaccurate and at times miss the point of the character for more of a feel-good story. A thing that, if people weren’t so hooked on nostalgia and if people at the time actually read the comics, would’ve been realized sooner before they warped people’s understanding of the character.
To oppose HiTop’s famous idea that “MCU Spider-Man has okay movies but bad Spider-Man movies,” my personal opinion is that “Raimi Spidey, excluding 3, has fucking fantastic and enjoyable movies, but they’re not really Spider-Man.”
Imagine saying MCU Spider-Man is good yet saying Raimi Spider-Man inaccurate. It's true that Raimi Spider-Man is inaccurate in many regards but to turn around and say MCU Spider-Man isn't much less accurate is nonsense.
Also now here's big also you little dumb dumb - Raimi didn't invent Uncle Ben being Peter's role model, this was done looooong before Raimi took over. The idea that Ben said the responsibility line was first introduced into the comics in 1987's "Spider-Man vs Wolverine"
Exactly!!